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Monday, October 01, 2012

MLB.com: Miggy belts 44th as Tigers claim AL Central title

The Tigers’ roller-coaster season led them to town with three chances to wrap up their second straight American League Central title. They only needed one, and they roughed up Royals nemesis Bruce Chen to do it.

.. The other end of the pitching duel, Rick Porcello, earned his first win since Aug. 7, and the Tigers earned a return trip to the postseason with a 6-3 win Monday night at Kauffman Stadium.

NTNgod Posted: October 01, 2012 at 11:30 PM | 49 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: pennant race, tigers

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   1. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: October 01, 2012 at 11:32 PM (#4250610)
I live an hour outside of Detroit. I hate Facebook right now.
   2. Spectral Posted: October 01, 2012 at 11:39 PM (#4250614)
The thing I hate most about the whole Miggy for MVP thing is that it makes me cheer against a guy that I really enjoy watching doing something that I really want to see.
   3. AJMcCringleberry Posted: October 01, 2012 at 11:40 PM (#4250615)
Cabrera 4-5, .329
Trout 3-3, .324 (still playing)
Mauer 1-5, .322

Should be a fun couple of days.
   4. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: October 01, 2012 at 11:41 PM (#4250617)
The thing I hate most about the whole Miggy for MVP thing is that it makes me cheer against a guy that I really enjoy watching doing something that I really want to see.


This. I do not care for the Tigers, but Cabrera is a delight to watch when he has a bat in his hands. But the stupid, "I'LL NEVER WATCH BASEBALL AGAIN IF CABRERA DOESN'T WIN MVP!" outbursts I've been seeing more and more of just makes me root for someone, anyone, to c-block Miggy's Triple Crown hopes.
   5. Every Inge Counts Posted: October 01, 2012 at 11:42 PM (#4250618)
Miguel Cabrera almost has the Michael Trout Award locked up.
   6. vortex of dissipation Posted: October 01, 2012 at 11:56 PM (#4250625)
Trout 4-4, .325
   7. Yastrzemski in left. Posted: October 02, 2012 at 12:02 AM (#4250629)
Boooo.
   8. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: October 02, 2012 at 12:03 AM (#4250630)
Nasty Nate may be on to something. If you find yourself rooting against the first Triple Crown in 45 years, by a player you enjoy watching, because it might lead to an MVP result you don't agree with or some columnist caterwauling, you might be devoting a little too much concern to a silly sportswriter vote.

Finish it off, Miggy.
   9. Cooper Nielson Posted: October 02, 2012 at 12:20 AM (#4250634)
This. I do not care for the Tigers, but Cabrera is a delight to watch when he has a bat in his hands. But the stupid, "I'LL NEVER WATCH BASEBALL AGAIN IF CABRERA DOESN'T WIN MVP!" outbursts I've been seeing more and more of just makes me root for someone, anyone, to c-block Miggy's Triple Crown hopes.

This seems equally silly. If you like a guy, root for him to do well. The other stuff -- Facebook, sportswriters, awards -- we should be able to look past that by now.
   10. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: October 02, 2012 at 12:24 AM (#4250637)
Well, Cabrera is a blast to watch hit, but Trout is the kind of ballplayer that actually makes me stop whatever I'm doing so I can watch him. He's a riveting all-around player. Anytime the Angels are on the field, I hope the opposing team will hit the ball out his way just so I can see what unfolds and I'm someone who's always been somewhat uninterested in a player's defensive merits.
   11. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: October 02, 2012 at 12:27 AM (#4250638)
I don't care what you think of the MVP race, if Trout ends up denying Miggy the Triple Crown by winning the batting title, he should get the MVP by default. Just for the extreme player hatin'.
   12. LargeBill Posted: October 02, 2012 at 12:28 AM (#4250640)
We have two players having fantastic seasons. Enjoy it. Tonight was great. Miggy had his great evening which was followed by people saying on Twitter, FB, etc that MVP was settled. Then late games started and Trout (so far) went 4 for 4. I will not be upset with either player winning a close MVP vote. I will be upset with some of the articles/columns explaining why some voted one way or the other.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm actually interested in hearing stories about the guys who garner votes in the 3 thru 10 spots on the MVP ballots. There are a lot of great stories in 2012. No, I'm not saying vote Soriano, Jim Johnson, Hamilton, Beltre, Jeter, Butler, etc, etc, etc, in top couple spots, but with so many teams sort of in contention this late in the season there are probably 20 different guys who will get at least a 10th place vote.
   13. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: October 02, 2012 at 12:30 AM (#4250641)
Here's a question: Does Trout regress to the mean next year? He's having a historically great season. Those tend to be hard to repeat. Then again, guys who are 20 usually get better but there's been very few guys as good as Trout at such a young age. It's going to be interesting to see how things work out for him.
   14. Everybody Loves Tyrus Raymond Posted: October 02, 2012 at 12:40 AM (#4250643)
Here's a question: Does Trout regress to the mean next year?


He hasn't established a mean yet.
   15. Spectral Posted: October 02, 2012 at 12:40 AM (#4250645)
This seems equally silly. If you like a guy, root for him to do well. The other stuff -- Facebook, sportswriters, awards -- we should be able to look past that by now.


If you can, you're better at it than me. I'm irritated too easily, and people being just so terribly, awfully wrong drives me absolutely batty.

To be clear, all I'm feel is a little bit conflicted, it's not actually changing my rooting interests. I still want Miggy to get the Triple Crown, and I still think it's incredibly cool. There's just a little twinge in the back of my head that thinks, "oh boy, here come the idiots in force now".
   16. Everybody Loves Tyrus Raymond Posted: October 02, 2012 at 12:43 AM (#4250646)
There would be nothing idiotic at all about Miguel Cabrera winning MVP. And I say that as a guy who would vote for Mike Trout.
   17. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: October 02, 2012 at 12:44 AM (#4250647)
Here's a question: Does Trout regress to the mean next year? He's having a historically great season. Those tend to be hard to repeat. Then again, guys who are 20 usually get better but there's been very few guys as good as Trout at such a young age. It's going to be interesting to see how things work out for him.


best 20 year old seasons--yes all regressed (slightly) the next season except Mantle & Griffey (and neither went up that much). But it's quite a list--all HOFers except Pinson and those not yet eligible
   18. Cooper Nielson Posted: October 02, 2012 at 12:44 AM (#4250648)
Then again, guys who are 20 usually get better but there's been very few guys as good as Trout at such a young age. It's going to be interesting to see how things work out for him.

Doesn't it often turn out that most players who are THIS GOOD at 20 have already peaked, or never get much better? They definitely don't usually follow the typical aging curve. First, for the obvious reason that it's nearly impossible to get any better. Second, because it probably means this was already their "everything came together" season and they can't count on everything breaking their way again. Although in Trout's case, he can expect to play 25 more games in the future.

Al Kaline arguably peaked at 20. By WAR, Alex Rodriguez only had one season (age 24) that was better than his age 20 season. Dwight Gooden's best season, BY FAR, was at age 20.
   19. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 02, 2012 at 01:37 AM (#4250667)
Doesn't it often turn out that most players who are THIS GOOD at 20 have already peaked, or never get much better? They definitely don't usually follow the typical aging curve. First, for the obvious reason that it's nearly impossible to get any better. Second, because it probably means this was already their "everything came together" season and they can't count on everything breaking their way again. Although in Trout's case, he can expect to play 25 more games in the future
This. If 2012 ends up being Trout's mean season, he's the greatest player of all time. It's more reasonable to expect a few Tim Raines peak-season numbers, with more homer power.

You figure with Peter Bourjos likely the everyday CF next season for the Angels that Trout'll be in right field. What would that do to his WAR? Anything?
   20. charityslave is thinking about baseball Posted: October 02, 2012 at 01:58 AM (#4250675)
There have been 153 10+ WAR seasons in baseball history, with 55 of them coming before 1900. So, yeah, a top 100 WAR season deserves the MVP, I think. Especially in substantially less than a full season.
   21. Walt Davis Posted: October 02, 2012 at 03:11 AM (#4250684)
What would that do to his WAR? Anything?

In theory nothing. He would receive a substantially negative positional adjustment but, if he's an above-average CF, he should be a dynamite RF and gain the positional adjustment back in Rfield. That's the point of dWAR, it's supposedly position-independent (well, except for lefty throwers obviously). In WAR terms, an OF is an OF -- what you lose by positional adjustment you gain by being compared to crappier fielders. OK, I suppose he'd drop some because RF get fewer chances than CF.

But yeah, you expect him to regress to the mean. (1) as noted, he can't really get better; (2) as noted, this is likely one of his "everything came together seasons"; (3) in support of #2, a lot of his value is coming from the most variable bits -- Rfield and BABIP (375). He could be a +10 CF with a 350 BABIP (still pretty awesome) and everything else the same and he loses 19 points of BA (so about 19 points of OBP and 25 points of SLG) and over 1 win less in Rfield. That's probably 2-2.5 wins off his total, gaining some back with more playing time.

Not that there's anything wrong with being an 8-9 WAR player.
   22. Cooper Nielson Posted: October 02, 2012 at 03:30 AM (#4250687)
Caveat: I am not a doctor or a trainer.

Based on his physique, I could see Trout developing (even more) power as he gets older, but we may have already seen the best of his base-stealing/defensive seasons. He's built like an NFL running back (6'1", 210 lb), and with all that muscle moving that quickly all the time, I worry that he's going to wear down or have a serious injury. In baseball, it seems that the flabbier, slower guys stay healthier than the Trout types.

Prince Fielder: never hurt
Darin Erstad: hurt all the time

   23. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: October 02, 2012 at 03:35 AM (#4250688)
Cabrera 4-5, .329
Trout 3-3, .324 (still playing)
Mauer 1-5, .322


It's over. It's always been over.
   24. Dr. Vaux Posted: October 02, 2012 at 05:18 AM (#4250695)
Well, this is as good as it gets, so hooray! I'm genuinely shocked.

Everybody certainly seemed ungrateful on the post-game show, though. You'd think this was the 1927 Yankees who came out and limped to a division title they should have won going away. That's exactly what the Detroit media seems to think it was. Should they have been 3 games back with 16 to play? No. But the way the White Sox played this year, unexpected though it may have been, Detroit should have been maybe 2 games up at that point, not 10.
   25. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 02, 2012 at 06:48 AM (#4250701)
congrats to the tigers and their fans
   26. Bug Selig Posted: October 02, 2012 at 07:31 AM (#4250720)
You'd think this was the 1927 Yankees who came out and limped to a division title they should have won going away.


The local media talked about this team exactly that way. Avila and Peralta were going to repeat their career years, Delmon was going to become what was forecast for him when he was a teenager, Miggy and Prince were going to hit 100 HR's and drive in 350 runs. Valverde was going to convert 125% of his save chances. Mentioning the comically bad defense was forbidden.

I can't think of anyone besides Austin Jackson and Andy Dirks that surprised to the good side. Scherzer, I guess, but that wasn't out of the blue.

   27. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: October 02, 2012 at 09:16 AM (#4250777)
Here's a question: Does Trout regress to the mean next year?


I don't know, but he'll make a nice keeper in fantasy.
   28. RMc's desperate, often sordid world Posted: October 02, 2012 at 09:33 AM (#4250800)
If 2012 ends up being Trout's mean season, he's the greatest player of all time.

He was pretty mean to opposing pitchers this season, that's for sure.
   29. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 02, 2012 at 09:38 AM (#4250807)
There's just a little twinge in the back of my head that thinks, "oh boy, here come the idiots in force now".


As opposed to every other facet of everday existence?
   30. Natty Fan Posted: October 02, 2012 at 10:28 AM (#4250888)
#24 and #26: I haven't been following the Tigers that closely, but is this perceived under-performance the genesis of all the stories regarding Leyland's future with the team? Or is he just considering retirement?
   31. TomH Posted: October 02, 2012 at 10:58 AM (#4250920)
Interesting choice for Miggy the next 2 days. Typically a good time to rest the star players. And, often a guy with a lead for the batting crown can take a day or two off to protect his edge. But NOT playing increases the chances that Josh Hamilton (who is gonna play, unless the poor guy sustains yet another most-weird injury or illness) passes him for the HR title. So I guess he plays tonight, and if he cranks another bomb, he takes Wed off.

(bonus note: Giancarlo Stanton is going ot finish 2nd in the NL in home runs, despite missing almost a quarter of the season)
   32. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: October 02, 2012 at 11:27 AM (#4250954)
#24 and #26: I haven't been following the Tigers that closely, but is this perceived under-performance the genesis of all the stories regarding Leyland's future with the team? Or is he just considering retirement?


It's the perceived under-performance. For sure. Tigers fans were not a happy bunch all season long. I'm stunned at how miserable Tigers fans are. Maybe it's not specific to Detroit, but they're the only team I am around enough to be able to base this on.

I was helping clean out my grandmother's house over the weekend and came across a fantasy baseball magazine of mine from 2003. I looked up the Tigers blurb in there. It was all doom and gloom and the season managed to end up worse than the prediction.

I think some of the miserable Tigers fans may want to do that from time-to-time when they get unhappy about the team not winning 95 games.
   33. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: October 02, 2012 at 11:34 AM (#4250965)
Between the end of last fantasy season and April this year I traded both Trout and Harper. /keeperleagueregrets
   34. Bob Meta-Meusel Posted: October 02, 2012 at 11:40 AM (#4250976)
One of the things that keeps throwing me in this discussion is that so many people who are supporting Cabrera for MVP are basically coming from a "You have to give the MVP to the guy who won the Triple Crown" point of view, but of the 9 times that there's been a Triple Crown since the BBWAA started handing out MVP awards, only 5 times has the Triple Crown Winner gotten the MVP award. That's even with the consideration that in all 9 cases the Triple Crown winner actually was also the WAR leader. Now, admittedly, in each of the four cases where the Triple Crown winner didn't get the MVP award, the Triple Crown winner came from a team that didn't win the pennant and the MVP went to a player on the team that did, but it's not like history has made the Triple Crown an automatic MVP, so I'd think that suggesting someone other than the Triple Crown winner should win the MVP wouldn't be so incredibly controversial.
   35. fra paolo Posted: October 02, 2012 at 11:42 AM (#4250980)
is this perceived under-performance the genesis of all the stories regarding Leyland's future with the team?

Leyland's contract is up, that's the genesis of all the stories.

However, there's also a sense that the Tigers should have done better since Leyland took the Tigers to the World Series in 2006. That 2006 was a bit of a surprise, and was followed by:

2007: 88-74 behind a 96-win Cleveland team that went 12-6 against the Tigers.
2008: Let's not talk about 2008.
2009: Lose one-game playoff to Twins.
2010: 81-81 with a team apparently improved on 2009, but whose starting pitching didn't get the memo.
2011: ALCS exit as AL Central champions, which was fair return.

And Mr Ilitch doesn't keep his wallet tightly closed if he thinks he can get value for overpayment.

Leyland seems to have some kind of frustration with the pitching staff. He's on his third pitching coach (Chuck Hernandez, Rick Knapp and now Jeff Jones) during his time in Detroit, and I suspect they've been made the scapegoat for issues elsewhere.
   36. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: October 02, 2012 at 11:43 AM (#4250981)
Interesting choice for Miggy the next 2 days. Typically a good time to rest the star players. And, often a guy with a lead for the batting crown can take a day or two off to protect his edge. But NOT playing increases the chances that Josh Hamilton (who is gonna play, unless the poor guy sustains yet another most-weird injury or illness) passes him for the HR title. So I guess he plays tonight, and if he cranks another bomb, he takes Wed off.


Neither Miggy nor Hamilton is going to homer again this season, while Adam Dunn will finish the year 4-8 with 4 HRs and 4 Ks and a couple of walks. This gives him the home run title to complete the Three True Outcomes triple crown, and also gives him the single season strikeout record.
   37. Booey Posted: October 02, 2012 at 11:58 AM (#4250996)
Interesting choice for Miggy the next 2 days. Typically a good time to rest the star players. And, often a guy with a lead for the batting crown can take a day or two off to protect his edge. But NOT playing increases the chances that Josh Hamilton (who is gonna play, unless the poor guy sustains yet another most-weird injury or illness) passes him for the HR title. So I guess he plays tonight, and if he cranks another bomb, he takes Wed off.


I'd probably do it the other way. Take tonight off, and play Wednesday if Hamilton homers tonight. Couldn't an 0-4 tonight for Cabrera and another awesome game by Trout cause the batting title to switch hands just like that?

No one would think Miggy or the Tigers are sissies if they rest Cabrera the last two games to preserve the TC, would they?
   38. bunyon Posted: October 02, 2012 at 12:43 PM (#4251050)
You figure with Peter Bourjos likely the everyday CF next season for the Angels that Trout'll be in right field.

Hang on. What? I don't follow the Angels all that close but a) everyone talks up how great Trout is in CF (and he certainly looks it to me) and b) Who?

Do the Angles really have a guy who is a better CF than Trout? Can he hit at all?


If I'm Cabrera, I play. I see this a lot: we clinched, now rest everyone. But if you suggest the play-in be a 3 game series, the wailing begins that you can't expect the division winners to sit out for three days.

Which is it? Is rest good or is rest bad? To me, with the playoffs starting in a few days, I keep playing.
   39. PreservedFish Posted: October 02, 2012 at 12:50 PM (#4251060)
Between the end of last fantasy season and April this year I traded both Trout and Harper. /keeperleagueregrets


Who on earth did you trade them for?
   40. BourbonSamurai Is a Lazy Nogoodnik Posted: October 02, 2012 at 01:00 PM (#4251081)
There would be nothing idiotic at all about Miguel Cabrera winning MVP. And I say that as a guy who would vote for Mike Trout.


Co-signed.
   41. Greg Pope thinks the Cubs are reeking havoc Posted: October 02, 2012 at 01:53 PM (#4251169)
Couldn't an 0-4 tonight for Cabrera and another awesome game by Trout cause the batting title to switch hands just like that?

If Cabrera sits the next 2 games and Trout gets 4 AB in each game, Trout would need to go 5-8 to win the title.

If Cabrera goes 0-4 tonight, Trout needs to go 4-8 to pass him.
   42. Squash Posted: October 02, 2012 at 02:14 PM (#4251222)
Who on earth did you trade them for?

In keeping with this hilarity, I traded Mike Trout for Miguel Cabrera last year in my keeper league.
   43. Misirlou is on hiding to nowhere Posted: October 02, 2012 at 02:30 PM (#4251260)
(bonus note: Giancarlo Stanton is going ot finish 2nd in the NL in home runs, despite missing almost a quarter of the season)


If not for the ruling making Melkey ineligible, the three NL rate stats "titles" would have gone to 3 different players who all required the 0 fer exception to qualify: Melkey, Votto OBP, and Stanton SLP.




   44. Mom makes botox doctors furious Posted: October 02, 2012 at 02:30 PM (#4251261)
Keep playing, don't break the groove, don't harm the karma.
   45. T.J. Posted: October 02, 2012 at 02:32 PM (#4251266)
In my 16-team mixed H2H 6x6 (R, OPS, K, QS) league, at the end of July, I traded Kuroda and Rizzo for Holland and Miggy. I'm in the finals and very close (knock on wood) to winning the whole thing (God bless Chris Davis!). Miggy (and Posey, speaking of MVP candidates) carried me for two months.
   46. Yastrzemski in left. Posted: October 02, 2012 at 04:19 PM (#4251432)
I feel a fat 0-8 coming for Miggy.
   47. Booey Posted: October 02, 2012 at 05:09 PM (#4251506)
I feel a fat 0-8 coming for Miggy.


Unless Hamilton passes him in HR's tonight, I don't see any reason why Miggy wouldn't sit before he reached 0-8.
   48. T.J. Posted: October 03, 2012 at 09:11 AM (#4252173)
I feel a fat 0-8 coming for Miggy.

If I were you, I wouldn't trust your feelings ever again. Your man Yaz is probably about to share the stage.
   49. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: October 03, 2012 at 09:40 AM (#4252208)
Who on earth did you trade them for?

I don't even remember and don't feel like looking it up. Thought I had a chance at winning the league this year and went all in since I (stupidly) assumed that players so young wouldn't contribute as much as veterans. My 5th place finish was sobering.

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