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Monday, July 23, 2012

MLB: Braves, Cubs agree on deal involving Ryan Dempser

Ah, the sweet smell of panic in the summertime…

The Cubs and Braves have agreed on a trade that will send right-hander Ryan Dempster, the Major League ERA leader, to Atlanta, a source confirmed to MLB.com on Monday.

Young hurler Randall Delgado could potentially head to Chicago in return.

The 35-year-old Dempster, who totes a 2.11 ERA, is signed through the end of this season. The two-time All-Star has won 10 or more games in each of the past four seasons and is 5-4 this year. He has recorded a quality start in 10 of his 15 outings and has surrendered more than four runs in just one appearance.

The Braves signed Delgado, a native of Panama, as an amateur free agent in 2006. The 22-year-old is 4-9 with a 4.42 ERA this season.

Here’s to teams that mortgage their future for flukey half-season rentals!

Depressoteric Posted: July 23, 2012 at 02:47 PM | 151 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: atlanta, braves, chicago, cubs, panic move

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   1. Bruce Markusen Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:08 PM (#4189875)
This has the makings of Steve Trout all over again.
   2. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:10 PM (#4189877)
Sounds like the Cubs may be close to dealing Matt Garza to the Dodgers for Zach Lee too.

I don't get the Dempster deal at all. Is Dempster even that much of a guarantee to be better than Randall Delgado the remainder of this season?
   3. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:12 PM (#4189878)
Hopefully this works as well as when the Tigers traded for Jarrod Washburn.
   4. bunyon Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:16 PM (#4189882)
#2 I think he'll be better than Delgado this year. But not by a whopping amount. And then you're faced with either signing a 36 year old FA or getting...nothing.

I suppose if I thought the Braves were within reach of serious contention, I might be okay with this. But, as it is, no, I don't like it at all.
   5. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:17 PM (#4189883)
I said elsewhere that one top-50 prospect for Dempster was a solid return. Delgado was BA's #46 coming into the season, so, seems about right. They do lose a year of service time compared to the usual prospect, but gain a lot more 2013-2014 value. The Cubs should be looking to compete in 2013-2014, so that's good.
   6. Brian C Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:17 PM (#4189884)
I don't get the Dempster deal at all. Is Dempster even that much of a guarantee to be better than Randall Delgado the remainder of this season?

Well, from a Cubs fan's perspective, it does help answer the question of "how can the Cubs avoid 100 losses after they trade Dempster?" rather nicely. After all, whether or not he can be expected to be better than Dempster, Delgado certainly can be expected to be better than Casey Coleman!
   7. Corn On Ty Cobb Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:18 PM (#4189886)
Frank Wren done lost his damn mind.
   8. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:24 PM (#4189891)
I believe the Cubs have the impending Cole Hamels extension to thank for this.
   9. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:24 PM (#4189892)
Or perhaps Frank Wren knows something about Delgado that we don't.....
   10. Srul Itza Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:25 PM (#4189893)
I love fluke seasons. Every dog should have his day.
   11. McCoy Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:25 PM (#4189894)
So that's what 6 million dollars looks like.
   12. andrewberg Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:26 PM (#4189897)
I get it- Atlanta wants to push for a postseason run in Chipper's final year and Dempster is more mature/polished/whatever to stabilize an up-and-down rotation, and the only cost was a good prospect at a surplus position- but I wouldn't do it.
   13. Depressoteric Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:29 PM (#4189900)
Ack, the typo in the headline is driving me nuts. Feel like a moron.
   14. Dag Nabbit is part of the zombie horde Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:32 PM (#4189904)
I don't get the Dempster deal at all. Is Dempster even that much of a guarantee to be better than Randall Delgado the remainder of this season?

Well, Dempster does have the best ERA in the NL at the moment, 2.11. Yes there's regression to the mean and random variation and true talent level and all that but .. Dempster does currently have the best ERA in the NL. When a guy has an ERA of 2.11 entering July 23, odds are fairly strong he'll be better the rest of the way than a guy with an ERA of 4.42.
   15. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:34 PM (#4189905)
Hate it. Hate it.

Delgado's having a standard-issue sub-par rookie season. Below-average ERA+, decent strikeout rate, good home run rate, too many walks. And pretty damn good stuff. There's nothing particularly ominous about Delgado's performance while there is every reason to think he'll grow into a solid pitcher.

Dempster's going to fall back a bit, but I doubt he'll plummet. He's a good pitcher and he's performed admirably for the Cubs over the last nine (!) seasons. I'm sure he'll be an upgrade for the Braves. But Dempster's a 35-year-old pitcher entering his free agent year, and the only thing worse than losing him after two months of work would be giving him a Derek Lowe contract entering his age 36 season.

I just don't see how you can give up Delgado for Dempster. Greinke's a different animal: younger, a better chance at dramatically impacting a pennant race, a better chance at serving as a long-term ace. But Delgado for Dempster...ugh.
   16. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:36 PM (#4189906)
I feel it's worth pointing out that Dempster is a pretty decent pitcher.

Since the Cubs moved him to the rotation his ERA+s have been:

154
122
110
80

Before this year's 186 (so far). He has been kind of underrated for having a very nice half decade.
   17. DA Baracus Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:36 PM (#4189908)
Any word on if the Cubs are eating a portion of Dempster's contract? Delgado seems a high price to pay if there isn't salary relief for the Braves.
   18. Kiko Sakata Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:36 PM (#4189909)
When a guy has an ERA of 2.11 entering July 23, odds are fairly strong he'll be better the rest of the way than a guy with an ERA of 4.42.


Ryan Dempster's career ERA coming into this season was 4.41.

EDIT: I actually agree with Pops in #16: Dempster's a good pitcher; I was just struck by how close his career ERA was to what Delgado's done so far this year.
   19. Spahn Insane Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:37 PM (#4189910)
I really like this deal for the Cubs. And he loves pitching here, so if there's any team with a chance to get him on the cheap(ish) as an FA...

   20. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:38 PM (#4189911)
Early reports have the Cubs sending cash.
   21. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:39 PM (#4189913)
Official Ryan Dempster twitter: THERE IS NO TRADE dont know where this info came from!

Note: Dempster is a 10/5 player
   22. Spahn Insane Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:39 PM (#4189914)
And if he doesn't return, well--hats off to Dempster for a pretty nice run. He was claimed off the injury scrap heap as a multi-year rehab project, and had pretty good runs as both a closer and as a starter for the Cubs, and was an easy guy to root for all along. And if you believe WAR, he was the best player on the best team the Cubs have fielded in the last 60 years.
   23. SouthSideRyan Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:40 PM (#4189919)
The Cubs were supposedly going to pay the freight in any trades in order to get a better prospect.
   24. Spahn Insane Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:40 PM (#4189921)
And, too, maybe we should wait for some confirmation.
   25. Spahn Insane Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:41 PM (#4189923)
The Cubs were supposedly going to pay the freight in any trades in order to get a better prospect.

Their being a crappy team with a lot of money, one would hope so.
   26. amhendrick Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:42 PM (#4189925)
I think it's a good deal for the Braves. They ARE in serious contention . . . they are a WC team right now and only 3.5 behind Washington. They might be closer if they hadn't had to pitch Jurrjens yesterday. Dempster's been fluky-good so far this year, but overall he's been better than average 4 out of the last 5 years.
   27. bfan Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:43 PM (#4189927)
Doesn't this still leave the god-awful Jurrjens in the rotation? If for that reason alone, I would have rather given up Tehran (unless they plan to bring up Tehran, and DFA Jurrjens).
   28. nick swisher hygiene Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:43 PM (#4189928)
I don't understand the snark in the original post: is the fact that Dempster's been a well above average starter for a period of 900+ innings since 2008 really so "esoteric"? Surely any halfway-informed baseball fan would know this?

edit: eg, the guys who posted #16 and #18 while I was, uh, refining my phrasing....
   29. Dan The Mediocre Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:47 PM (#4189932)
I don't understand the snark in the original post: is the fact that Dempster's been a well above average starter for a period of 900+ innings since 2008 really so "esoteric"? Surely any halfway-informed baseball fan would know this?

edit: eg, the guys who posted #16 and #18 while I was, uh, refining my phrasing....


I don't think they think Dempster won't be good, but rather that they gave up a pitcher who is still very young and almost an average MLB starter for half a season of Dempster.
   30. DA Baracus Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:48 PM (#4189933)
The Cubs were supposedly going to pay the freight in any trades in order to get a better prospect.


Thanks. That makes sense to me.

They might be closer if they hadn't had to pitch Jurrjens yesterday.


Yup. Delgado was called up to pitch in the double header, so he was going back down. Or Jurrjens was. Either way, Dempster replaces the guy pretending to be Jair Jurrjens. Even if he sharply regresses to the mean, he's a nice improvement. Hanson/Hudson/Sheets/Minor/Dempster is the rotation now. Better than it was yesterday, but potentially robbing Peter to pay Paul.
   31. Depressoteric Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:50 PM (#4189936)
I don't understand the snark in the original post: is the fact that Dempster's been a well above average starter for a period of 900+ innings since 2008 really so "esoteric"? Surely any halfway-informed baseball fan would know this?
I don't doubt that Dempster is a pretty good pitcher -- not as good as his current half-season, but still better than average and a valuable addition to any rotation.

But Delgado is young, decent enough, and has a lot of potential. Meanwhile Dempster is a half-season rental and, because of the new CBA, the Braves won't even get a compensation pick if he leaves for another team next year. It's a short-sighted move given the position the Braves are in.

EDIT: Coke to Dan at #29.
   32. Joey B.: posting for the kids of northeast Ohio Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:51 PM (#4189937)
Why the hell is MLBs official website reporting a story like this with a headline that implies that a deal is done when it isn't even official yet? This kind of get the story out as fast as possible and who gives a crap about the facts journalism is so infuriating.
   33. Dag Nabbit is part of the zombie horde Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:51 PM (#4189938)
When a guy has an ERA of 2.11 entering July 23, odds are fairly strong he'll be better the rest of the way than a guy with an ERA of 4.42.

Ryan Dempster's career ERA coming into this season was 4.41.

Yeah, but he had some horrible years early and was a middling reliever for the Cubs for a bit. As you yourself acknowledge, on the whole he's been a good starting pitcher for the last several years.
   34. Depressoteric Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:53 PM (#4189940)
Why the hell is MLBs official website reporting a story like this with a headline that implies that a deal is done when it isn't even official yet? This kind of get the story out as fast as possible and who gives a crap about the facts journalism is so infuriating.
Check the byline - was it written by Brian Ross?
   35. bfan Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:54 PM (#4189942)
Check the byline - was it written by Brian Ross?


That was pretty funny.
   36. Dan The Mediocre Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:55 PM (#4189944)
Check the byline - was it written by Brian Ross?


Mark Bowman. But it was updated at 3:45 EDT to include Dempster's tweet.

EDIT: Completely missed the joke. Thought he was referencing a real MLB.com writer.
   37. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:55 PM (#4189947)
Why the hell is MLBs official website reporting a story like this with a headline that implies that a deal is done when it isn't even official yet?
MLB.com has a slightly odd relationship with MLB. It's got its own journalists and is not subject to specific oversight of reporting or analysis. They're following normal reporting ethics - if you have the sources, you have a story, even if you don't have official confirmation. It is a little odd to see that on "MLB.com", but that's how the site runs.
   38. UCCF Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:55 PM (#4189948)
I remember the last time the Cubs traded for young Braves pitching. It worked out great. Right, Joey Nation, Micah Bowie, and Ruben Quevado?

The Braves got a decent half-season out of Terry Mulholland, followed by a crappy season. They also got a crappy half-season out of Jose Hernandez. But it's still more than the Cubs got out of Bowie, Nation, and Quevado.
   39. Guapo Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:56 PM (#4189951)
Rosenthal:

My best guess on what's happening with #Cubs' Dempster. Agreement or near-agreement on players and cash, no agreement with Dempster. MORE.

Dempster 10/5 rights, can veto any deal. #Braves his No. 2 choice after #Dodgers. May simply be matter of enticing him to waive no-trade.
   40. UCCF Posted: July 23, 2012 at 03:57 PM (#4189952)
I do like the "panic move" tag. That's cute.
   41. Kiko Sakata Posted: July 23, 2012 at 04:04 PM (#4189961)
Dempster 10/5 rights, can veto any deal. #Braves his No. 2 choice after #Dodgers. May simply be matter of enticing him to waive no-trade.


This doesn't really make sense to me. If the Braves are his #2 choice, then (a) that implies that he and the Cubs have already talked about where he'd be willing to go, and (b) it also implies that Atlanta is a place that he'd be willing to go.
   42. SoSH U at work Posted: July 23, 2012 at 04:05 PM (#4189962)
Soes do the new rule prohibiting compensation for FA who are traded mean more bucks, on average, for a guy like Dempster when he hits the market?


   43. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: July 23, 2012 at 04:05 PM (#4189966)
Frank Wren seduced by another fluky partial season. Water is wet. It's got to be an improvement over the Alex Gonzalez train of misery.
   44. bfan Posted: July 23, 2012 at 04:05 PM (#4189967)
Maybe its Dimaster Delgado.
   45. Dale Sams Posted: July 23, 2012 at 04:07 PM (#4189969)
Anybody could have had Edwin Jackson for just cash...jus sayin. And that option will be ignored by 29 teams in 2013 too.
   46. Depressoteric Posted: July 23, 2012 at 04:11 PM (#4189973)
How funny would it be if the trade here fell through because Dempster refused to waive his no-trade clause?

Is there any chance of such a thing actually happening? (Actually, sure -- Carlos Lee did it earlier this year with the Dodgers.)
   47. Brian C Posted: July 23, 2012 at 04:13 PM (#4189974)
How funny would it be if the trade here fell through because Dempster refused to waive his no-trade clause?

NOT AT ALL FUNNY.
   48. Joey B.: posting for the kids of northeast Ohio Posted: July 23, 2012 at 04:14 PM (#4189977)
The tone of that tweet certainly doesn't sound like that of someone who is going to accept the trade. But it could just be that he's annoyed that the story got leaked before he was informed of it by the team, or something like that.
   49. Depressoteric Posted: July 23, 2012 at 04:15 PM (#4189978)
NOT AT ALL FUNNY.
Oh come on...it would be at least KIND OF funny.
   50. Depressoteric Posted: July 23, 2012 at 04:16 PM (#4189980)
The tone of that tweet certainly doesn't sound like that of someone who is going to accept the trade.
Can't wait until it emerges that Dempster doesn't want to be traded from the Cubs because he's heavily invested in a cattle-ranching business out in the Barrington suburbs of Chicago.
   51. Spahn Insane Posted: July 23, 2012 at 04:16 PM (#4189981)
NOT AT ALL FUNNY.

Correct, such that I'd take back all the nice things I said about Dempster upthread.
   52. Kiko Sakata Posted: July 23, 2012 at 04:17 PM (#4189982)
The tone of that tweet certainly doesn't sound like that of someone who is going to accept the trade. But it could just be that he's just annoyed that the story got leaked before he was informed of it by the team, or something like that.


That was my reaction too. It reminds me a little bit of how the Bears ended up hiring Dick Jauron when Dave McGinnis (I think?) backed out at the last minute because McCaskey scheduled a press conference before they'd agreed on a salary. Agreeing to a trade - and, worse, publicizing it - before you're sure that the player won't veto it seems like such a stupid, easily-avoided mistake.
   53. Spahn Insane Posted: July 23, 2012 at 04:18 PM (#4189984)
The tone of that tweet certainly doesn't sound like that of someone who is going to accept the trade. But it could just be that he's annoyed that the story got leaked before he was informed of it by the team, or something like that.

Dempster's got sort of an odd sense of humor, which I suppose throws another wrinkle into one's reading of all this.
   54. SteveF Posted: July 23, 2012 at 04:18 PM (#4189986)
Soes do the new rule prohibiting compensation for FA who are traded mean more bucks, on average, for a guy like Dempster when he hits the market?


No. My understanding is that while the former team doesn't receive the draft pick, the signing team still loses the draft pick. So from the perspective of the team that signs him, the costs are almost the same. The only change really is you don't end up giving your pick to a team with whom you might be competing against for a playoff spot.

Also, this new change only applies to players traded in the last year of their contract.

To get compensation for a player that plays out the last year of the contract with the same team, there's a qualifying offer system. The team must offer the player a contract whose AAV is the average of the top 125 players.
   55. Brian C Posted: July 23, 2012 at 04:30 PM (#4190001)
Nightengale is reporting that the team's are now waiting for Dempster's approval, which must mean that the deal fell through before it was even presented to Dempster.
   56. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: July 23, 2012 at 04:33 PM (#4190010)
Meh. I get the hand wringing about upside and potential from Braves fans, but at the end of the day, the Braves have two more Randall Delgados in the minors (Teheran, Vizcaino) and Brandon Beachy back in 17 months. The purpose of major league baseball is not to give Keith Law the biggest stiffy, it's to win major league baseball games, and it's reasonable to suspect that Ryan Dempster contributes more wins to the Braves in 2012 than would Delgado.

It's not like you were going to flip Jurrjens for something useful at this point. You have to give to get.
   57. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: July 23, 2012 at 04:40 PM (#4190017)
My understanding is that while the former team doesn't receive the draft pick, the signing team still loses the draft pick.

Really? This seems weird. I'm not saying it's incorrect, just strange.
   58. SteveF Posted: July 23, 2012 at 04:43 PM (#4190020)
It's incorrect. I was basing it off something I read on the internet. I went and read the CBA and I am flat out wrong. I've been trying to edit/correct my comment for a while now and the website won't let me.

Basically, you don't lose your draft pick unless the player stays the full year with the same club and the club makes the player a qualifying offer.
   59. Paul D(uda) Posted: July 23, 2012 at 04:47 PM (#4190025)
Nightengale is reporting that the team's are now waiting for Dempster's approval, which must mean that the deal fell through before it was even presented to Dempster.

Doesn't that mean the deal hasn't fallen through yet? There's still a chance of it happening.
   60. UCCF Posted: July 23, 2012 at 04:47 PM (#4190027)
How funny would it be if the trade here fell through because Dempster refused to waive his no-trade clause?

Is there any chance of such a thing actually happening? (Actually, sure -- Carlos Lee did it earlier this year with the Dodgers.)


Actually, I believe this happened with the Cubs before. When they were trying to acquire Fred McGriff, he dillied about his no-trade clause for about a month before finally agreeing. The Cubs gave up Jason Smith and Manny Aybar for McGriff's last decent season and a half, so... worth the wait, I guess.
   61. Guapo Posted: July 23, 2012 at 04:48 PM (#4190028)
My headline for this story:

"Braves Go Dempster Diving, End Up With Refuse"

If any of you would like to purchase the rights to use this headline, please paypal me $10
   62. Depressoteric Posted: July 23, 2012 at 04:50 PM (#4190030)
"Braves Go Dempster Diving, End Up With Refuse"
Not bad, not bad.

*golf claps*
   63. zonk Posted: July 23, 2012 at 04:58 PM (#4190038)
So this fell apart?

Damn... I'd have taken Delgado for Dempster... Teheran's stock seems to have slipped precipitously this season (not saying he's no longer a top 50, even top 25, prospect -- but he seems to have developed a serious case of gopheritis) - I might have seen if he could have been had if the Cubs had tossed in a bit more (Darwin Barney to fill in at SS while Simmons is out? a Reed Johnson to caddy for someone?).

Does this mean Dempster is going to be a ######## about his NTC? I mean - I get 10/5 and whatever - but Dempster had recently indicated that the NTC wouldn't be a problem. I can understand that he might not wish to go to say, Oakland or something... but WTF is wrong with Atlanta? Friggin' Fred McGriff wouldn't LEAVE the place for a good month when the shoe was on the other foot.
   64. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 23, 2012 at 04:59 PM (#4190039)
Doesn't that mean the deal hasn't fallen through yet? There's still a chance of it happening.

I believe it was intended to make fun of Bob Nightengale.

   65. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: July 23, 2012 at 05:00 PM (#4190042)
Well played, Guapo. Well played.
   66. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 23, 2012 at 05:01 PM (#4190043)
Does this mean Dempster is going to be a ######## about his NTC? I mean - I get 10/5 and whatever - but Dempster had recently indicated that the NTC wouldn't be a problem. I can understand that he might not wish to go to say, Oakland or something... but WTF is wrong with Atlanta? Friggin' Fred McGriff wouldn't LEAVE the place for a good month when the shoe was on the other foot.

I believe McGriff was a Devil Ray at the time.
   67. Depressoteric Posted: July 23, 2012 at 05:01 PM (#4190044)
Does this mean Dempster is going to be a ######## about his NTC? I mean - I get 10/5 and whatever - but Dempster had recently indicated that the NTC wouldn't be a problem. I can understand that he might not wish to go to say, Oakland or something... but WTF is wrong with Atlanta? Friggin' Fred McGriff wouldn't LEAVE the place for a good month when the shoe was on the other foot.
Slow your roll, son! The deal hasn't fallen through yet. Brian C. in #55 was making fun of a sports journalist, is all. I fully expect this trade to go through, maybe after a little haggling on price for waiving the NTC.

Although it really would be hilarious if it didn't.
   68. Juilin Sandar to Conkling Speedwell (Arjun) Posted: July 23, 2012 at 05:01 PM (#4190045)
I like this deal (not sure if it's happened or it's going to happen or whatever), if only because this year I was at this game, where the two starting pitchers were, uh, Randall Delgado and Ryan Dempster.
   69. Brian C Posted: July 23, 2012 at 05:02 PM (#4190046)
I believe it was intended to make fun of Bob Nightengale.

Indeed. Didn't mean to start a new rumor.
   70. Spahn Insane Posted: July 23, 2012 at 05:02 PM (#4190047)
WTF is wrong with Atlanta? Friggin' Fred McGriff wouldn't LEAVE the place for a good month when the shoe was on the other foot.

Actually, that was Tampa. (Which, if anything, is even less explicable...)

EDIT: Coke to Pops
   71. Scott Lange Posted: July 23, 2012 at 05:25 PM (#4190056)
From my twitter feed:

13m Carrie Muskat ?@CarrieMuskat
#Cubs asst GM Randy Bush on Dempster rumors: "There's nothing to report"

21m Carrie Muskat ?@CarrieMuskat
#Cubs brass told Sveum there was no deal with #Braves

22m Carrie Muskat ?@CarrieMuskat
#Cubs mgr Sveum says no deal re: Dempster to #Braves. Called it "fabrication"
   72. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 23, 2012 at 05:35 PM (#4190062)
Nightengale is reporting that the team's are now waiting for Dempster's approval, which must mean that the deal fell through before it was even presented to Dempster.

*applause*
   73. Spahn Insane Posted: July 23, 2012 at 05:38 PM (#4190065)
Wait, I thought we fired Jim Hendry.
   74. Guapo Posted: July 23, 2012 at 05:41 PM (#4190069)
Rosenthal:

Sources tell me and @jonmorosi that #Marlins are extremely disappointed with team's performance and are prepared to make a series of trades.


Wheee! Who's gonna get Hanley?
   75. Depressoteric Posted: July 23, 2012 at 05:44 PM (#4190072)
From my twitter feed:
Okay, but if all this is true, then why would MLB.com run with this? It's not as if they would've fabricated this out of whole cloth.
   76. Dan Posted: July 23, 2012 at 05:50 PM (#4190076)
While the Dempster trade might not go through, the Marlins have traded Anibal Sanchez and Omar Infante to Detroit for Jacob Turner.
   77. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 23, 2012 at 05:53 PM (#4190081)
Wheee! Who's gonna get Hanley?


Now that would make the Pirates forget Kevin Towers' phone number right off.
   78. JE (Jason Epstein) Posted: July 23, 2012 at 06:17 PM (#4190112)
And Ichiro goes to the Yanks! Hmmm, will he wear no. 51?
   79. Depressoteric Posted: July 23, 2012 at 06:29 PM (#4190142)
Lot of crazy sh*t going down today in the trade world. Why today?
   80. McCoy Posted: July 23, 2012 at 06:32 PM (#4190150)
And yet Alfonso Soriano is still available.
   81. Brian White Posted: July 23, 2012 at 09:28 PM (#4190380)
A panic move to fix the rotation, and yet Kris Medlen continues to have zero major league starts on the season. Christ.
   82. bigglou115 Posted: July 24, 2012 at 12:09 AM (#4190526)
Well, I wouldn't be surprised if this was "made-up." Bowman broke the story, and if I recall correctly he also broke the Griffey and Furcal signings 2 years ago (many of you will notice neither signed, and at least one of them ended negotiations immediately because of the story).

As for this being a panick move to secure a rental, I think we'll see this is the going rate for a decent rental now. More importantly, while Delgado is a great get for the Cubs, he's being vastly overrated by Braves fans. A) he's still a baby and as we've all learned baby pitchers break. B) when he was a top 50 prospect KG and BA agreed his ceiling was good 3 or a slightly below average 2 with a slight chance to get to average or above average 2. Since then he's slipped down the lists, KGs first instinct was that Delgado wouldn't make his top 50 anymore, and I think BAs list had him in the 70s. The Braves didn't trade away 5.5 years of a stud, they probably traded away 2-3 seasons of good value after he reached his ceiling and before he got paid like it.

As for the marginal value of Dempster over Delgado, well for whatever reason the Braves viewed it as Dempster over Jurrjens with no option to just let Delgado start. I would suspect the Braves began to fear that Delgado needed time in the minors and that letting him continue pitching in the majors would slow his development, making him more valuable as a trade chip than a big league starter since the Braves would likely lose one of those good cost controlled years.
   83. rb's team is hopeful for the new year! Posted: July 24, 2012 at 01:55 AM (#4190566)
81, i'm right there with you.

I guess this trade has been put to bed, but if it turns out that dempster did torpedo the deal, #### that guy.
   84. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 24, 2012 at 10:51 AM (#4190721)
It is now being reported that a deal is in place but Dempster is mad about being blindsided by the rumor and may not accept the trade.

Which doesn't make any sense to me as it had been reported Dempster was willing to go to Atlanta.
   85. zonk Posted: July 24, 2012 at 11:01 AM (#4190732)
It is now being reported that a deal is in place but Dempster is mad about being blindsided by the rumor and may not accept the trade.


#### Dempster. "Blindsided"? He knows he's been on the block virtually all season. He knows we're a week before the trade deadline. He ought to ####### know who the 'contenders' are - and seems to have previously blessed going to Atlanta.

WTF?

"Blindsided"? Was he thinking the Cubs ought to get more than Delgado in return? Did he want to see Teheran coming back to Chicago?

Ridiculous.

   86. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: July 24, 2012 at 11:04 AM (#4190735)
It would seem out of character for Dempster to veto a trade to a legit contender on the basis that he was upset that news of it got leaked. Like zonk said, there's been talk of moving Dempster pretty much all season, so there's no reason to feel blindsided by news of an impending trade. Especially now that we're a week away from the trade deadline.
   87. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 24, 2012 at 11:06 AM (#4190738)
Well, I wouldn't necessarily assume the report is accurate.

It's also possible he was only willing to waive his rights if he could negotiate something with the new team and they're in the process of doing that.

I also suppose he could be mad about the rumor if he wanted things kept quiet so he wouldn't have public pressure.

We will just have to wait and see, I guess.
   88. Poster Nutbag Posted: July 24, 2012 at 11:15 AM (#4190749)
I just wanted to see Dempster & Huddy on the same team....antics for days, I tell ya!
   89. Joey B.: posting for the kids of northeast Ohio Posted: July 24, 2012 at 11:25 AM (#4190754)
Which doesn't make any sense to me as it had been reported Dempster was willing to go to Atlanta.

Did Mark Bowman report that also?
   90. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 24, 2012 at 11:26 AM (#4190756)
Apparently it's always been Dempster's dream to be on the same team as someone named "Delgado", and he just wants the terms of the deal altered a bit.
   91. Guapo Posted: July 24, 2012 at 11:31 AM (#4190759)
The way this has been handled has offered Dempster quite a bit of leverage. It would be surprising if he didn't utilize it.
   92. Brian C Posted: July 24, 2012 at 11:32 AM (#4190761)
The way this has been handled has offered Dempster quite a bit of leverage. It would be surprising if he didn't utilize it.

In what way? If he becomes more than a minor inconvenience, the Braves just say "#### it" and walk away.
   93. Guapo Posted: July 24, 2012 at 11:40 AM (#4190767)
If he becomes more than a minor inconvenience, the Braves just say "#### it" and walk away.


Well, I'm assuming the Braves see him as a potentially critical piece in their ability to make a playoff run (given their current SP problems). And if they don't complete the deal, one of their competitors might. So I think Dempster's got the upper hand here.
   94. zonk Posted: July 24, 2012 at 11:48 AM (#4190772)
In what way? If he becomes more than a minor inconvenience, the Braves just say "#### it" and walk away.


Amen... and he continues to pitch for a crappy team that doesn't want him, in front of fans that would substantially prefer to see him flipped for the future, that ISN'T AT ALL interested in resigning him, enters the FA market likely as a compensation eligible FA.

Dempster has always seemed like a fun guy and the Cubs have gotten good value from the contracts they've given him... but they also plucked him off the scrap heap, resurrecting his career.

We're even, ######### -- waive the 10/5 rights... I just hope the idiot trixies can be convinced to boo him unmercifully.
   95. SoSH U at work Posted: July 24, 2012 at 11:51 AM (#4190773)
I can't blame Dempster (or anyone in his situation) for being upset. If a club wants to trade a guy with no-trade protection, then the process should go: agree to parameters of deal with another club, run it by the guy who has to sign off on it and get his approval, then leak/report the information. If I'm in Dempster's shoes, I want the opportunity to accept/reject the deal before it becomes public knowledge (and then the pressure shifts to the player to sign off on the dea (edit: See Post 94 for an example of this).
   96. Brian C Posted: July 24, 2012 at 11:58 AM (#4190781)
I can't blame Dempster (or anyone in his situation) for being upset.

I can understand his being annoyed. But the same time, we've probably all been in situations where we've been treated unideally by our employers, and throwing a tantrum over hurt feelings is never really a very noble reaction.

That said, as Pops noted above, we don't really know what's happening, so maybe Dempster's reaction is being oversold by the media. He deserves the benefit of the doubt until the picture becomes clearer.
   97. zonk Posted: July 24, 2012 at 12:04 PM (#4190786)
I can't blame Dempster (or anyone in his situation) for being upset. If a club wants to trade a guy with no-trade protection, then the process should go: agree to parameters of deal with another club, run it by the guy who has to sign off on it and get his approval, then leak/report the information. If I'm in Dempster's shoes, I want the opportunity to accept/reject the deal before it becomes public knowledge (and then the pressure shifts to the player to sign off on the dea (edit: See Post 94 for an example of this).


Well, first of all -- I don't think we know WHO leaked anything... Every single member of the Cubs management denied the trade immediately. Takes two to tango - and given the continued Jurrjens implosion, seems to me it would be Atlanta with a more vested interest in ensuring to their fans that they've got a solution in the works. I'm not ready to say the Cubs futzed this up.

Second of all -- with complete 10/5 rights -- if there are specific places he doesn't want to go, then I think he ought to make this known to the Cubs. Given that Dempster has ALREADY expressed publicly his willingness to "go to a contender" and waive his 10/5 rights, then -- well -- if there are destinations he wouldn't accept, he really ought to be proactive and let the FO know so they don't waste their time working out a deal that has no chance.

Third -- there have been Dodgers swirling around Dempster for more than a week... why didn't that bother him.

   98. SoSH U at work Posted: July 24, 2012 at 12:11 PM (#4190790)
and throwing a tantrum over hurt feelings is never really a very noble reaction.


But getting outraged at a guy who's simply exercising a right he's earned is?

I guess I must have missed something. It was stated that he was mad about being blindsided, and may not approve the trade as a result, a feeling I find perfectly reasonable (if he has the right to approve a trade, it should come before it's announced, not after. If the Cubs/Braves can't provide that bit of common courtesy, then #### them). And the reaction to his reaction is precisely why players ought to be pissed about this. Ryan Dempster has a no-trade provision, but woe is him if he actually exercises it (I felt the same way years ago when McGriff got all sorts of #### for not wanting to come to Chicago).
   99. They paved Misirlou, put up a parking lot Posted: July 24, 2012 at 12:13 PM (#4190796)
Ryan Dempster has a no-trade provision, but woe is him if he actually exercises it


Kind of like a guy taking the 5th. "Well, what does he have to hide? He must be guilty."
   100. Kiko Sakata Posted: July 24, 2012 at 12:17 PM (#4190800)
Third -- there have been Dodgers swirling around Dempster for more than a week... why didn't that bother him.


There's a quote upthread that said that the Dodgers were Dempster's first choice as a destination (and the Braves were his second choice). It could be that the Dodger rumors had gotten his hopes up that he was going to LA and while he was okay with Atlanta in theory, he was (a little?) disappointed that it ended up being Atlanta instead of LA.

There are now rumors that LA is looking at Garza. Dempster might be wishing (hoping?) that the Cubs could somehow switch those trades and send Garza to the Braves (for Delgado?) and send him to the Dodgers (for Zach Lee, who was the rumored return I'd heard for Garza?).
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