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Thursday, February 07, 2019

MLB ‘disabled list’ to be renamed ‘injured list’

Major League Baseball’s “disabled list” will be renamed the “injured list,” a person with direct knowledge of the proposal confirmed to USA TODAY Sports.

The person spoke on the condition of anonymity because the league had not yet made an announcement. ESPN first reported the plan.

The new designation intends to reflect that injured players do not in fact, have a disability.

Deputy Commissioner Dan Halem said Thursday the change is being made at the suggestion of advocacy groups.

Jim Furtado Posted: February 07, 2019 at 07:26 PM | 150 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: disabled list

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   1. Baldrick Posted: February 07, 2019 at 07:51 PM (#5813505)
Nice. Hurts nobody and is a minor change to the good. Will take a little while to get used to it not being the 'DL' anymore, though.

Now just fix the pace of play and I'll really be happy.
   2. Jeff Francoeur's OPS Posted: February 07, 2019 at 08:10 PM (#5813511)
Suicide squeeze: you're next.

Then we can go after the "baseman."
   3. The Mighty Quintana Posted: February 07, 2019 at 08:29 PM (#5813519)
Here, here. IL it is (not to be confused with the International League of AAA)
   4. The 15-Day DL Posted: February 07, 2019 at 08:53 PM (#5813522)
I thought they couldn't ruin my life any further.
   5. Howie Menckel Posted: February 07, 2019 at 08:59 PM (#5813523)
this is a decent effort by The Onion.

wait, what?

"sacrifice" also has to go.

also sayonara to "Golden Sombrero," "Dying Quail," "Texas Leaguer," "Baltimore Chop," "Bronx Cheer," "Backdoor Slider," "Bang-Bang Play," "Circus Catch," "High and Tight," "In the Hole," "On the Screws," "Painting the Black," "Seeing-Eye Single," "Twin Killing" - and, especially, "Tools of Ignorance."
   6. Davo cant be eatin thirty hot dogs every day Posted: February 07, 2019 at 09:11 PM (#5813527)
4- Ha!
   7. flournoy Posted: February 07, 2019 at 09:14 PM (#5813528)
Yeah, I'll still call it the disabled list and/or the DL. Nice try.
   8. Howie Menckel Posted: February 07, 2019 at 09:19 PM (#5813530)
The Mayo Clinic Injured List, Presented By Farmer's Insurance
   9. flournoy Posted: February 07, 2019 at 09:27 PM (#5813532)
When you put it like that, it seems offensive to injured people, to put them on a list and judge them. Calling it the Alternative Ability Safe Zone would be less problematic.
   10. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: February 07, 2019 at 10:24 PM (#5813542)
Pedants rejoice!
   11. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: February 07, 2019 at 10:29 PM (#5813544)
How about the Not Tonight list?
   12. Howie Menckel Posted: February 07, 2019 at 10:32 PM (#5813546)
"We're All Day-to-Day - But Especially THESE GUYS" list
   13. TVerik. Old Java Rodney. Posted: February 07, 2019 at 10:59 PM (#5813553)
I've always thought that "Old Timer's Day" should probably be renamed.
   14. Howie Menckel Posted: February 07, 2019 at 11:01 PM (#5813555)
"doubleheaders" could be the target of a niche advocacy group
   15. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: February 08, 2019 at 12:14 AM (#5813564)
What, are conjoined twins advocates going to get upset about doubleheader?
   16. Blastin Posted: February 08, 2019 at 06:41 AM (#5813583)
As someone with a disability and a spouse with one too, you guys are ########.
   17. . . . . . . Posted: February 08, 2019 at 07:07 AM (#5813584)
I’m with Blastin. I’m no liberal but the name was literally inaccurate and is being changed to something simple and more accurate. If even a small number of people benefit from reducing the stigma on “disability”, why not?

   18. JustMe Posted: February 08, 2019 at 07:36 AM (#5813585)
(16) Thank you.
   19. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 08, 2019 at 08:37 AM (#5813594)
I assume this is because "Guys Who Are Actually Injured Plus Relievers Who Pitched to Four Batters a Few Days Ago List" was considered unwieldy?
   20. Omineca Greg Posted: February 08, 2019 at 08:37 AM (#5813595)
Wow, the "disabled list" was first launched in 1915. Generations ago.

What else was happening in 1915, you ask?

Actually, nobody asked, but I'm going to tell you anyway.

Zeppelins were attacking London. Boy, that would be terrible. Big balloons dropping bombs on you. This isn't a comment about drone strikes, don't even go there. This is a comment about Led Zeppelin and how much I hate those plagiarising #############.

Birth of a Nation came out in 1915. No, quit trying to make this about the present. We're talking about 1915 here, and how much things have changed since then. Anyway, Birth of a Nation, made lots of money.

Oh, some jackasses in Australia went all Ottoman and emptied their rifles into a freight train full of picnickers on New Year's Day. Don't.

In Iceland, they let women vote in national elections.

But only if they were over 40.

袁世凱, President of China, declares himself "Emperor". For life, obviously. 護國戰爭 blah blah...blah blah. Look, this isn't some sort of "We didn't start the fire" bullshit I'm doing here.

But changing a name from a hundred years ago?...Some traditions are worth keeping, some are not. And changing the name "disabled list" is nothing. Nothing at all.

Not a Brexit poster.

No really, it isn't.
   21. . Posted: February 08, 2019 at 09:00 AM (#5813596)
I’m no liberal but the name was literally inaccurate and is being changed to something simple and more accurate. If even a small number of people benefit from reducing the stigma on “disability”, why not?


Well, the counter-argument "why not"? is that no one was actually "stigmatized" by the name or anything close. (*) The logic would proceed something along the line that: (1) the change was made on an utterly spurious premise; and (2) we shouldn't encourage people to adopt and cling to spurious ideas. I'd like to think that humanism still has at least some adherents and the fundamental idea of humanism is to search for and express ideas about human beings, human experience, human thought that are actually true -- and to act in accordance with that philosophy. Expressing and acting on false or spurious ideas is therefore anti-humanist and should accordingly be highly disfavored.

(*) Companies and the federal government offer short-term and long term "disability" benefits and insurance. Not only at no time have I associated that or the baseball DL with any class of people, not one atom of one iota of my consciousness has ever lurched in that direction. There's no reason for any lack of confidence that virtually ever other hearer of the terms has had the same reaction.
   22. . Posted: February 08, 2019 at 09:06 AM (#5813598)
And it's worth repeating here that if we were really concerned about the impact of language on listeners, and the possibly stigmatizing effects thereof, we would forbid white people from listening to hip-hop. White ears have heard the ... word ... more in the 21st century, by many orders of magnitude, that they did even in the lowest point in our sordid racialist past.
   23. Rennie's Tenet Posted: February 08, 2019 at 09:13 AM (#5813599)
This collides with the hoary notion that everyone is playing hurt by the end of season, that they suck it up and strap it on, even though they're banged up, for one more day.
   24. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 08, 2019 at 09:15 AM (#5813600)
Well, the counter-argument "why not"? is that no one was actually "stigmatized" by the name or anything close.
Ah, yes, because you get to decide this.
   25. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 08, 2019 at 09:16 AM (#5813601)
I’m with Blastin. I’m no liberal but the name was literally inaccurate and is being changed to something simple and more accurate. If even a small number of people benefit from reducing the stigma on “disability”, why not?

I don't really care, but the name wasn't inaccurate. "Disabled" also means temporarily or permanently unable to work because of injury or illness.

When you are physically or mentally incapable of performing your job, you go on "short-term disability" for a while, and then "long-term disability". If you don't have coverage through work, you collect "Social Security disability benefits".

Edit: Coke to "."
   26. . Posted: February 08, 2019 at 09:22 AM (#5813603)
Ah, yes, because you get to decide this.


OK, then it's just about power. Also anti-humanist, as it has nothing to do with reasoned debate. I'll simply refer back to the discussion in the first paragraph of post 21, and post 22.
   27. Howie Menckel Posted: February 08, 2019 at 09:27 AM (#5813605)
I have a disability, and have a nephew with Down Syndrome and another with Asperger's Syndrome.

There is no cultural stigma attached to the phrase "disabled list" - and anyone who thought there was can breathe a sigh of relief. Not letting outside forces determine your outlook is a key to a life of relative contentment.

"Disabled list" also is not inaccurate.

I dated a woman with multiple sclerosis, which is where I learned the wonderful term "temporarily abled."

That's everyone else. Live long enough, and collect your prize. Hardly anyone gets to be "abled" forever.
   28. . Posted: February 08, 2019 at 09:44 AM (#5813611)
It's funny -- my favorite person in the world is mildly dyslexic and therefore has what the NYC schools refer to as a "learning disability."

I'm trying to imagine a hypothetical conversation in which he says something like, "Dad, why do they call it the disabled list, that makes me feel stigmatized I hate that word." (*)

And my thinking response would be something like, "Well, if a guy like Bryce Harper is called disabled just because he has a pulled hamstring, it just shows that the word is no big deal."

So in point of actual fact, the term "disabled list" is anti-stigmatizing.

(*) Though he does despise the term "learning disability," he's actually smart so he'd never say such a thing -- but let's go with it anyway.
   29. Blastin Posted: February 08, 2019 at 10:07 AM (#5813616)
See, I didn't care about the name. It isn't a problem, really. But if they want to change it for symbolic reasons, making fun of it is unkind.
   30. Rennie's Tenet Posted: February 08, 2019 at 10:19 AM (#5813629)
But if they want to change it for symbolic reasons,


The objection is that it's highly likely that it's being done for marketing purposes.
   31. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 08, 2019 at 10:27 AM (#5813637)
I have a disability, and have a nephew with Down Syndrome and another with Asperger's Syndrome.

The greatest threat to people with Down Syndrome isn't being called names, it's being allowed to be born it the first place.
   32. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: February 08, 2019 at 10:37 AM (#5813644)
What a stupid discussion. The NFL has had an analogous "Injured Reserve List" for decades without anyone claiming it was sissified.

Oh, and that "Not a Brexit poster" of Omineca Greg is the nuts. Maybe the best WWI poster I've ever seen.
   33. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: February 08, 2019 at 10:41 AM (#5813646)
Maybe that baby had it coming.
   34. Calvin T. Posted: February 08, 2019 at 10:44 AM (#5813647)
The greatest threat to people with Down Syndrome isn't being called names, it's being allowed to be born it the first place.


Thank you for saying this.

There used to be a great place on this baseball-focused website to discuss abortion but that seems to have recently disappeared. Not sure why that would happen. Can't really talk baseball if you can't also bring up abortion when appropriate.

I really hope that we can take this opportunity to make this thread into one on abortion. This site has truly been missing this content recently.
   35. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: February 08, 2019 at 10:48 AM (#5813650)
The NFL has had an analogous "Injured Reserve List" for decades without anyone claiming it was sissified.


Is that the same as the "Physically Unable to Play" list?
   36. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: February 08, 2019 at 10:54 AM (#5813655)
Nevermind.
   37. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 08, 2019 at 10:58 AM (#5813659)
I really hope that we can take this opportunity to make this thread into one on abortion. This site has truly been missing this content recently.


Yeah, that was a real, really odd comment by snapper, and unless we are grossly misinterpreting the post, highly inappropriate. SOME people may feel that way, but no one here has expressed it, and snapper certainly does not.
   38. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 08, 2019 at 11:01 AM (#5813661)
The objection is that it's highly likely that it's being done for marketing purposes.

According to TFA, they were asked to do so by advocacy groups. I don't see any harm in agreeing to those requests, especially because I don't think I've ever heard any marketing whatsoever around the DL.

I do, however, find the article rather strange from a journalistic perspective:

Major League Baseball's "disabled list" will be renamed the "injured list," a person with direct knowledge of the proposal confirmed to USA TODAY Sports.

The person spoke on the condition of anonymity because the league had not yet made an announcement. ESPN first reported the plan.


So they can only confirm the change anonymously because the change hasn't yet been announced. But then:

Deputy Commissioner Dan Halem said Thursday the change is being made at the suggestion of advocacy groups.


So why the need for the anonymous quote if they have a quote from the Deputy Commissioner about it?

Then:

"In recent years, the commissioner has received several inquiries regarding the name of the 'Disabled List,'" Pfeifer wrote in a memo. "The principal concern is that using the term 'disabled' for players who are injured supports the misconception that people with disabilities are injured and therefore are not able to participate or compete in sports."

(emphasis added)


a reference to a memo written by someone named Pfeifer, who has not been mentioned anywhere else in the article. Googling tells me that this is a reference to Jeff Pfeifer, MLB's senior director of league economics and operations. And again, if they have this memo why the need for anonymous sourcing?

Seems like USA Today could use some better writers/editors.
   39. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: February 08, 2019 at 11:03 AM (#5813664)
Is that the same as the "Physically Unable to Play" list?


Nope. In the NFL there's the Physically Unable to Perform (PUP) list, which enables teams to remove a player with a medium-term injury from the roster for a few weeks, and the Injured Reserve list, where a player who has sustained a season ending injury goes (only one player a year is allowed to be removed from IR once placed on it, and he has to sit out at least six weeks). It's kind of analogous to MLB's 15 10 15? day DLIL and 60 day IL, but more extreme. An NFL team has to continue to carry a player with a short term injury on the active roster.
   40. formerly dp Posted: February 08, 2019 at 11:09 AM (#5813666)
As someone with a disability and a spouse with one too, you guys are ########.


You've been here long enough to know not to expect better.

PWD experience as much casual discrimination as any group in the US today. Language is a big part of that. On this site, we have at least one poster who continues to use the r word with impunity. Changing language is a big part of changing attitudes, and this is a change that harms no one, while addressing the concerns of disabled rights advocates. It is the ultimate in ableist dipshittery to be bothered by the switch.
   41. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 08, 2019 at 11:13 AM (#5813668)
I can't believe there is any backlash to this change.
   42. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 08, 2019 at 11:15 AM (#5813669)
I can't believe there is any backlash to this change.
Welcome to America. You must be new here.
   43. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: February 08, 2019 at 11:15 AM (#5813670)
People are jerks.
   44. . Posted: February 08, 2019 at 11:17 AM (#5813672)
Changing language is a big part of changing attitudes, and this is a change that harms no one,


It doesn't become any more true on the millionth repetition.
   45. . Posted: February 08, 2019 at 11:18 AM (#5813674)
"The principal concern is that using the term 'disabled' for players who are injured supports the misconception that people with disabilities are injured and therefore are not able to participate or compete in sports."


No one has this "misconception" and the idea that they do is idiotic. Supporting idiocy, and enacting idiotic ideas, does significant harm.
   46. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 08, 2019 at 11:19 AM (#5813675)
Well said dp.
   47. formerly dp Posted: February 08, 2019 at 11:20 AM (#5813676)
It doesn't become any more true on the millionth repetition.
You're a ####### idiot.
   48. JAHV Posted: February 08, 2019 at 11:23 AM (#5813677)
I don't really understand how a reasonable person could be upset that baseball is taking a term that some people have an issue with and replacing it with a term that fewer people have an issue with (I can't imagine anyone has a problem with "injured list," but you never know). That's anti-humanist? Don't be absurd.
   49. . Posted: February 08, 2019 at 11:26 AM (#5813680)
I don't really understand how a reasonable person could be upset that baseball is taking a term that some people have an issue with and replacing it with a term that fewer people have an issue with


No one's "upset."

That's anti-humanist? Don't be absurd.


Yes, dogmatically phonying up language based on active, almost drooling, stupidity is anti-humanist.(*) Few things are more so.

(*) Humanism: Humanism is a philosophical and ethical stance that emphasizes the value and agency of human beings, individually and collectively, and generally prefers critical thinking and evidence (rationalism and empiricism) over acceptance of dogma or superstition.

Source: Wikipedia.
   50. Omineca Greg Posted: February 08, 2019 at 11:42 AM (#5813688)
People are jerks

Especially Germans.

And Robert Plant.
   51. formerly dp Posted: February 08, 2019 at 11:42 AM (#5813689)
replacing it with a term that fewer people have an issue with

Dipsh!t Fakelawyer is rambling about agency while not seeing that this is disabled advocates expressing their agency--they're responding to formally encoded language they find to be discriminatory and harmful by asking for a change in that language. All of the sudden, Dipsh!t Fakelawyer has decided that 'disabled list' is a term so sacred to our culture that altering in in response to changing meanings of words is somehow indicative of pernicious forces corroding our collective sanity and rationality.
   52. . Posted: February 08, 2019 at 11:46 AM (#5813691)
they're responding to formally encoded language


Speaking of dogma and superstition ....

####### Fakelawyer has decided that 'disabled list' is a term so sacred to our culture that altering in in response to changing meanings of words is somehow indicative of pernicious forces corroding our collective sanity and rationality.


Yours was hopelessly corroded long ago.

And all I really "decided" was that the premise upon which this change is being made is idiotic and false. Which it clearly is, which is why you have to resort to your empty jargon and ineffectual insults to defend it.
   53. formerly dp Posted: February 08, 2019 at 11:52 AM (#5813693)
Speaking of dogma and superstition ....
I know this is hard for you but I'll try anyway: it's the official language of a major sports organization, used to designate the eligibility status of its players. You don't get more formally coded than that.
   54. GGC Posted: February 08, 2019 at 11:52 AM (#5813694)
I thought that was 'Zop and not SBB.

   55. . Posted: February 08, 2019 at 11:55 AM (#5813696)
You don't get more formally coded than that.


The term "disabled list," in the context in which it's used is neither "coded" nor "formal." Those are empty jargon words, if not outright false. If you have something worthwhile to say, or are seeking to persuade (*), the best way to do so is by using normal English. The fact that you can't or won't is virtual proof positive of the dogma behind the thoughts.

(*) Which there's every reason in the world to doubt.




   56. formerly dp Posted: February 08, 2019 at 12:00 PM (#5813697)
Which it clearly is, which is why you have to resort to your empty jargon and ineffectual insults to defend it.

This is the part where you state your opinion as fact. We know this routine.

I'm not insulting you in defense of the policy. I'm just saying that we've all been here before, watching you spin twisted logic in defense of some a cultural status quo that you perceive to be sacrosanct. So rather than engaging with it, let's just say it's SBB being a ####### idiot again. It's shorthand to avoid spending 800 posts with you trying to erect an argument around a premise that's essentially "because SBB says so."
   57. GGC Posted: February 08, 2019 at 12:01 PM (#5813698)
Damn you guys who limit your handles to the period. I saw 'zop earlier in the thread and saw a reference to NYC by "." and assumed that it was 'zop and not SBB.
   58. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: February 08, 2019 at 12:07 PM (#5813704)
The ignore feature is awesome. Use it.
   59. . Posted: February 08, 2019 at 12:08 PM (#5813705)
I'm not insulting you in defense of the policy.


You can't insult me.

watching you spin twisted logic in defense of some a cultural status quo


Not quite as jargonish as usual, but in the same family of empty.

So rather than engaging with it, let's just say it's SBB being a ####### idiot again.


You can't engage with it, other than through empty jargon and ineffectual insults. Previously established. As anyone with any insight can see, you're simply aligning yourself with the power plays of niche groups, and sloganeering in their favor, because you support their aims. Nothing more. The "advocates for the disabled" are simply reveling in their new-found political muscle and you like it that they -- as opposed to the bugaboo white males you envy -- are able to do so. There's nothing more to it than that. No one is, or ever has been, actually "stigmatized" because major league baseball 100 years ago or whatever happened to, likely by accident, adopt the term "disabled list." If anything, as I explained in 28 based in part on direct experience, the term is anti-stigmatizing.
   60. formerly dp Posted: February 08, 2019 at 12:08 PM (#5813706)
The term "disabled list," in the context in which it's used is neither "coded" nor "formal." Those are empty jargon words, i


Are we in Thor "all words are made up" territory now? "Disabled list" is absolutely a formal designation, used in an institutional context* to classify a certain group of players as having an ineligible status, despite remaining on the roster. The coded meaning of that word has changed over time. This is a simple alteration to the formal language MLB uses to designate ineligible but still rostered players. If you didn't insist on being such an insufferable dickwad, this wouldn't be even the slightest issue.

*This formal language used by MLB is also echoed in fantasy leagues, in articles written about MLB players, etc--so MLB's continued use of the term has more weight and circulation than it would in a less public-facing organization's personnel rules & policies.
   61. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: February 08, 2019 at 12:11 PM (#5813708)
According to TFA, they were asked to do so by advocacy groups. I don't see any harm in agreeing to those requests

Except that they give voice to some niche collection of crusading professional victims, so when the next niche collection of crusading professional victims comes along with their own ridiculous axe to grind over some imagined slight, they'll know they have a sympathetic ear in MLB to acquiesce to whatever nonsense they ask for. Laugh about [5] all you want, but over time those mean hurtful thoughtless insensitive stigmatizing words will be stricken from the vernacular too.
   62. formerly dp Posted: February 08, 2019 at 12:14 PM (#5813710)
The "advocates for the disabled" are simply reveling in their new-found political muscle and you like it that they

I'm sure disabled rights groups would be amused at the suggestion that they have some sort of newfound political muscle. Unemployment rates for people with disabilities are still sky-high, ADA enforcement still depends on access to economic power, most subway stops in NYC remain inaccessible to people with mobility impairments...but wow, they got MLB to make a slight alteration to the language they use to formally designate players as injured, they're the hegemon now.

You are a first-rate ####### idiot.
   63. BillWallace Posted: February 08, 2019 at 12:17 PM (#5813711)
I'm with dot on this one.

We should be kind to each other always.

But the control of language in general is a serious issue with serious consequences.

THIS (The DL) is not serious issue, and I don't think anyone here is asserting it is. Just harmless poking of fun at the very very very outermost fringes of shadows of authoritarianism.
   64. . Posted: February 08, 2019 at 12:18 PM (#5813712)
The coded meaning of that word has changed over time.


There is no "coded meaning of that word." It's not even a word, it's two words. It's used in MLB in the same way it's used in a number of other contexts, including social security, private insurance, "learning disability," etc. Describing someone as absent from work on "short-term disability" isn't "coded" either.

"Disabled list" is absolutely a formal designation,


Nah, not in normal conversational or even rhetorical language. "Formal" is jargonish, if not pure jargon. Again, if you had a persuasive point to make, you wouldn't need to resort to words and terms like "formally coded" to make it.
   65. . Posted: February 08, 2019 at 12:23 PM (#5813715)
I'm sure disabled rights groups would be amused at the suggestion that they have some sort of newfound political muscle.


Appeal to authority. Not persuasive.

They just exercised their political muscle, in the very controversy we're talking about.

And if tender ears shouldn't hear of injured baseball players being put on a "disabled list," lest stigmatization ensue, why should those same tender ears hear black people routinely referred to as "N____"? (Answer: Because it's not really about "stigmatization.")
   66. formerly dp Posted: February 08, 2019 at 12:24 PM (#5813716)
"All words are made up" it is, then. You're just spinning now--you've got nothing.

Listen to people with disabilities talk about how language makes them feel. That's where this change is coming from. There are a lot of words that are harmful to people because of the way they've been used to marginalize them--and it harms no one to alter our formal language (I don't know why you're struggling with this word) in response to their collective experience with this term. You want to tell them how they're allowed to feel, because for some reason you've decided the meaning of this word can't change over time or else it's a cultural apocalypse.
   67. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 08, 2019 at 12:25 PM (#5813717)
Except that they give voice to some niche collection of crusading professional victims, so when the next niche collection of crusading professional victims comes along with their own ridiculous axe to grind over some imagined slight, they'll know they have a sympathetic ear in MLB to acquiesce to whatever nonsense they ask for. Laugh about [5] all you want, but over time those mean hurtful thoughtless insensitive stigmatizing words will be stricken from the vernacular too.


And MLB is free to tell then to go pound sand if they make a frivolous request or one that MLB deems goes against their interest, like the Braves and Indians have done to demands they change their names. This isn't a Supreme Court ruling you know.
   68. . Posted: February 08, 2019 at 12:30 PM (#5813718)
Listen to people with disabilities talk about how language makes them feel.


I have a son with a disability. Lectures unnecessary. And again, putting my personal experience aside, this is simply an appeal to authority. And ultimately power.

On the substance, no one sane believes that the word "disabled" implies "unable to compete in sports." It's a frivolous claim. Indeed, the proffered reason to change the word had nothing to do with how language made anyone "feel."

There are a lot of words that are harmful to people because of the way they've been used to marginalize them--and it harms no one to alter our formal language (I don't know why you're struggling with this word) in response to their collective experience with this term.


The words "disabled" and "disability" are used all over the place in American life, and the term "disabled list" is in full accord with the standard meaning and usage of the term. The prime civil rights bill in the area is called the "Americans With Disabilities Act." This has been explained a number of times now. It's not a "coded" word, "formally," or otherwise.
   69. JJ1986 Posted: February 08, 2019 at 12:34 PM (#5813719)
I just wish they had picked a word that started with "d" so we could still use DL.
   70. Howie Menckel Posted: February 08, 2019 at 12:34 PM (#5813720)
Listen to people with disabilities talk about how language makes them feel. That's where this change is coming from.

if there are any living, breathing humans that actually were upset because MLB has been using the phrase "disabled list" for 100 years, I would be very open to hearing from them. and also what other changes need to be made to our language.
   71. BillWallace Posted: February 08, 2019 at 01:16 PM (#5813732)
Thinking about this issue caused me to search whether or not players can be placed on the DL with mental health issues. They can and have! I think that's great.

I also think 'disabled' is a strictly better term for this list than 'injured'. In both cases 'temporarily' or 'currently' is implied.

I dearly hope that control of language doesn't become an increasingly important tool for authoritarianism in the west in coming decades. I'm not certain that it will, but I'm equally uncertain that it won't.
   72. Morty Causa Posted: February 08, 2019 at 01:22 PM (#5813735)

Control the language, the words and the terms permissible in which something is talked about, and you get a big advantage when it comes to winning or having your way. I mean, our society teems with examples of this.
   73. DavidFoss Posted: February 08, 2019 at 01:30 PM (#5813740)
Skimming the above thread, I thought maybe the NFL was going to rename "downs".

The "euphemism treadmill" and Orwell's "Newspeak" are two very different things. We don't need to worry about the rise of authoritarianism because of minority groups' need to rebrand themselves every couple of generations.
   74. Morty Causa Posted: February 08, 2019 at 01:32 PM (#5813741)
Everyone always has a good reason for why YOU shouldn't do something.
   75. Nasty Nate Posted: February 08, 2019 at 01:35 PM (#5813743)
The "euphemism treadmill" and Orwell's "Newspeak" are two very different things. We don't need to worry about the rise of authoritarianism because of minority groups' need to rebrand themselves every couple of generations.
well put
   76. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 08, 2019 at 01:43 PM (#5813746)

It's impressive (but unsurprising) how readily people mouth off here about things they literally have no information about. Some advocacy groups made a request and it was accomodated. The idea that they flexed their "newfound political muscle" or browbeat MLB into adopting some change it didn't want to is completely made-up. I certainly have never read of any public complaints or protests on this topic. Perhaps the people running MLB actually agreed with the advocacy groups and thought the change was a good idea and a more accurate descriptor? I mean, I agree that I don't think the previous name should have stigmatized anyone, but the new name is even less likely to do so, so why should anyone have a problem with the change?
   77. Man o' Schwar Posted: February 08, 2019 at 01:52 PM (#5813752)
This will be the Los Angeles Chargers of changes. They may move, and they may want to be called Los Angeles, but everyone will still refer to them as San Diego.

I look forward to hearing ex-players on MLB Tonight continue to say DL for the next 10 years.
   78. Benji Gil Gamesh VII - The Opt-Out Awakens Posted: February 08, 2019 at 01:59 PM (#5813753)
I just wish they had picked a word that started with "d" so we could still use DL.
Dinged-up List?
Damaged List?
Deactivated List?
   79. Rennie's Tenet Posted: February 08, 2019 at 02:14 PM (#5813758)
I agree that I don't think the previous name should have stigmatized anyone, but the new name is even less likely to do so, so why should anyone have a problem with the change?


Because a lot of guys are injured but playing every day. Other guys aren't injured, but have a medical reason that they are temporarily unable to play. "Disabled list" accurately accounts for these players, "Injured list" does not.
   80. . Posted: February 08, 2019 at 02:29 PM (#5813760)
The idea that they flexed their "newfound political muscle" or browbeat MLB into adopting some change it didn't want to is completely made-up.


It's purely an exercising in flexing political muscle. That's how they got the change accomplished, and it wasn't done through any kind of serious reasoning. Indeed, the reasoning they offered is frivolous and as others have pointed out, now players with mental health issues on the DL (or whatever) will be deemed to be "injured" which also isn't right and could be more logically seen as stigmatizing. What happens when the mental health advocacy groups complain? And why shouldn't we just anticipate their complaints in advance, rather than make the whole thing about squeaky wheel grease-gathering power?

The entire implied idea that no one would stand up for disabled groups being "stigmatized" other than the disabled groups themselves is also entirely frivolous and without merit.




   81. McCoy Posted: February 08, 2019 at 02:36 PM (#5813763)
Deactivated list?
Delisted List?
Decrepit List?
   82. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 08, 2019 at 02:55 PM (#5813765)

Because a lot of guys are injured but playing every day.

A lot of guys are presumably "disabled", if you include learning disabilities or the like, and are playing every day as well. So I don't see why the new name is any worse than the old one in this regard.

Other guys aren't injured, but have a medical reason that they are temporarily unable to play.

A medical reason that one is temporarily unable to play isn't a "disability" or an "injury", so again I don't see why the new name is worse than the old one.
   83. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 08, 2019 at 02:55 PM (#5813766)

It's purely an exercising in flexing political muscle. That's how they got the change accomplished, and it wasn't done through any kind of serious reasoning.

And you assert this based on what?
   84. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: February 08, 2019 at 03:15 PM (#5813770)
Deactivated list?
Delisted List?
Decrepit List?


Differently-abled List, which would naturally and in the spirit of inclusion include everybody since every player in MLB is quite differently-abled compared to Mike Trout.
   85. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: February 08, 2019 at 03:27 PM (#5813774)
Deactivated list?


I think this is probably the best possible name. It best fits the modern use the DL which is often used to simply deactivate a guy for a while because they are tired or going through a mechanical issue they need to work out, but can't be optioned to the minors.
   86. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: February 08, 2019 at 03:29 PM (#5813776)
This will be the Los Angeles Chargers of changes. They may move, and they may want to be called Los Angeles, but everyone will still refer to them as San Diego.


Is this really the case outside of SoCal? I don't think I've ever heard them called the San Diego Chargers since they moved.
   87. Jarrod HypnerotomachiaPoliphili (TeddyF.Ballgame) Posted: February 08, 2019 at 03:32 PM (#5813778)
I'm all for making accommodations like this one, but I have to agree with Rennie's Tenet that this causes more problems than it solves. Now a guy who needs time off for mental health reasons is considered "injured"? Don't bereaved players spend time on the DL?

If the current name feels even mildly stigmatizing to some, there's no reason not to change it, but let's go with something more accurate like Deactivated List.
   88. bfan Posted: February 08, 2019 at 03:51 PM (#5813786)
List?

Lists are intrinsically hierarchical and fundamentally denote a higher and lower order and a top and a bottom, thus hurting those of the lower order or at the bottom. How about "table" or "roll"; the injured roll works for me.
   89. Nasty Nate Posted: February 08, 2019 at 04:05 PM (#5813788)
I'm all for making accommodations like this one, but I have to agree with Rennie's Tenet that this causes more problems than it solves. Now a guy who needs time off for mental health reasons is considered "injured"? Don't bereaved players spend time on the DL?

If the current name feels even mildly stigmatizing to some, there's no reason not to change it, but let's go with something more accurate like Deactivated List.
The bereavement list is a separate thing from the DL, as are a few other deactivated statuses.
   90. Howie Menckel Posted: February 08, 2019 at 04:19 PM (#5813794)
It is a running joke among NFL broadcasters to apologize in advance because they know they will say "San Diego Chargers" at least once - and they do. I don't think people intentionally say the wrong city, but then again nobody cares because the listener knows that's Philip Rivers' team either way.

   91. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 08, 2019 at 04:21 PM (#5813795)

I prefer Los Angeles Chargers of Carson.
   92. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: February 08, 2019 at 04:24 PM (#5813798)
I just wish they had picked a word that started with "d" so we could still use DL.
The (J.D.) Drew List!
   93. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: February 08, 2019 at 04:29 PM (#5813800)
injured roll works for me.

only if you have someone with a top hat, monocle, and waistcoat read it aloud
   94. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: February 08, 2019 at 04:36 PM (#5813802)
only if you have someone with a top hat, monocle, and waistcoat read it aloud

I'm sure Rob Manfred would consider the idea.
   95. Davo cant be eatin thirty hot dogs every day Posted: February 08, 2019 at 04:53 PM (#5813810)
has anyone posted the “i sexually identify as an attack helicopter” joke yet? aka the best joke ever?
   96. The Good Face Posted: February 08, 2019 at 05:25 PM (#5813822)
has anyone posted the “i sexually identify as an attack helicopter” joke yet? aka the best joke ever?


No, because that would be ridiculous. However, I DO sexually identify as a neutron star. Ever since I was a boy I dreamed of spinning at the speed of 0.24c and emitting radio signals at the frequency of 716 Hz. People say to me that a person being a neutron star is Impossible and I’m ####### retarded but I don’t care, I’m beautiful. I’m having a plastic surgeon install astrophysical jets, hot quark-gluon plasma and super hot surfaces on my body. From now on I want you guys to call me “PSR J1748-2446ad” and respect my right to emit pulsating radio signals. If you can’t accept me you’re a neutrophobe and you need to check your stellar object privilege. Thank you for being so understanding.
   97. BillWallace Posted: February 08, 2019 at 05:48 PM (#5813828)
The "euphemism treadmill" and Orwell's "Newspeak" are two very different things. We don't need to worry about the rise of authoritarianism because of minority groups' need to rebrand themselves every couple of generations.


DavidFoss: Can you expand on this? It seems a point I'm interested in hearing, but I'm too dense to understand it at the moment.
   98. Srul Itza Posted: February 08, 2019 at 07:59 PM (#5813846)
The Dayy-Umm List.

As in "Day-Umm, that looks painful"
   99. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: February 08, 2019 at 10:11 PM (#5813861)
I'm all for making accommodations like this one, but I have to agree with Rennie's Tenet that this causes more problems than it solves. Now a guy who needs time off for mental health reasons is considered "injured"? Don't bereaved players spend time on the DL?


Well, in the NFL a mental health issue gets you put on the "non-football injury" list.
   100. Powderhorn™, arrogant local sailing champion Posted: February 09, 2019 at 02:32 AM (#5813894)
Disabled guy here. I've never been offended by the Disabled List and it took me a minute to figure out why someone would be. That said, now that I know that some in our community are offended by it, then by all means change it. The first post sums up my opinion. It's a small change, but it costs nothing to make it and it will make a group of people slightly less discriminated against, so go for it. You'd think there wouldn't be anything here to argue about.
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