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Thursday, February 07, 2019

MLB ‘disabled list’ to be renamed ‘injured list’

Major League Baseball’s “disabled list” will be renamed the “injured list,” a person with direct knowledge of the proposal confirmed to USA TODAY Sports.

The person spoke on the condition of anonymity because the league had not yet made an announcement. ESPN first reported the plan.

The new designation intends to reflect that injured players do not in fact, have a disability.

Deputy Commissioner Dan Halem said Thursday the change is being made at the suggestion of advocacy groups.

Jim Furtado Posted: February 07, 2019 at 07:26 PM | 150 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: disabled list

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   101. Rennie's Tenet Posted: February 09, 2019 at 06:15 AM (#5813896)
That said, now that I know that some in our community are offended by it, then by all means change it.


This is, by and large, an analytical website.

Sources vary, but they seem to converge at something like 40 million disabled people in the US. Are "some in our vommunity" distressed by the use of a given term? Undoubtedly, because in any group of 40 million there will be people who hold every conceivable opinion. The opinion of an undefined "some" should carry no weight.

Again, this is an analytical website. Without data specifically showing that the advocacy groups have gained a sense of the combined opinion of the 40 million, the distress claimed over use of the term is nothing more than anecdotal. The motivations of both MLB and advocacy groups are as suspect in this instance as the motivations of any other groups operating in the public sphere.
   102. Omineca Greg Posted: February 09, 2019 at 09:13 AM (#5813907)
Sending this one out for #96 and PSR J1748-2446ad...

A very wise man once wrote, "Ba pa-pa-pa ba pa-pa ba ba ba pa-pa ba pa-pa ba pa-pa ba ba
ba,ba-pa ba-pa ba ba, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh
.

Everyone should listen to that, there's a lot of wisdom in it.

Especially Led Zeppelin fans.

You see, that song is a cover. I'll say it again, because it's a concept you may not have been introduced to yet. Certainly you won't have been if you're listening to nothing but Led Zeppelin records.

"Cover"

June, Ruth, and Anita didn't write that song, Sly Stone (Sylvester Stewart) did. So what normal artists do when they perform a song written by somebody else, is give a thing called (I'll slow down for the Zep fans here) "credits" and pay a thing called "royalties". If you Zepheads have any questions about what are probably foreign concepts to you, please come forward, and I'm sure one of our legally trained posters (there's no shortage of them) will explain the concepts in further detail.

I love Ruth's voice. Deep and husky, turns my crank. They don't let her sing lead all that often, but I'm sure PSR J1748-2446ad will already be familiar with this one...

Neutron Dance

Ah, the 80s, they're never coming back. Between Bronson Pinchot camping it up, the sisters throttling their usherette wands like they were...uh, never mind, you'll figure it out, Ruth's contralto and her padded jacket that makes her look like a linebacker, and Eddie Murphy's, uhh... idiosyncratic choices of people to let into his car...there's a lot of gender ambiguity in that video, twenty years ahead of schedule, almost like these issues have always been there. But nah, that couldn't be it...

I'll leave you with the greatest cover of all time, just for the people who aren't quite getting the concept.

Of covers.

Or anything else.

I looked at her and she at me.

Ah, what the ####...this is already the most gender fluid post in BBTF history, but I'll run up the score a little, to put it completely out of reach. This is kind of like stealing a base in the top of the ninth when you're already up by 12 runs...but hey, I gotta be me...

Still you're hot and you kiss me back

And now my post has two Sylvesters, but I doubt that's a record...

Keep reaching for that rainbow, guys.
   103. JustMe Posted: February 09, 2019 at 09:53 AM (#5813909)
(101) I think this website lost the claim to bring an analytical website long ago.

What kind of numbers so you have to see to think that the advocacy groups are right? Why would they be disingenuous? You are just hiding behind a fake request for "reason" and "facts" to make it seem like you're bigoted opinion is rational.
   104. JustMe Posted: February 09, 2019 at 09:54 AM (#5813910)
(101) But you've probably thought about this issue more than the people who work at organizations to advocate for these people.

Anyone can make a claim that they require a nondescript, impossible level of data to be convinced out of their insane premise. You are using the exact same rhetorical techniques as climate change deniers.
   105. JustMe Posted: February 09, 2019 at 10:06 AM (#5813915)
And unless I see multiple peer reviewed studies proving your exact point, I'm going to continue going through life calling people like you smug a-holes.

(See, anyone can do what you did in your post.)

   106. Morty Causa Posted: February 09, 2019 at 11:20 AM (#5813934)
Yes, they can. And that, too, can define a website.

Anyone can make a claim that they require a nondescript, impossible level of data to be convinced out of their insane premise. You are using the exact same rhetorical techniques as climate change deniers.

If someone does, then call them out specifically when they do. But, what really defines climate change denier (and, oh, creationists) is they ignore what's been explained, cited, and demonstrated, and simply come back to making their naked assertions.
   107. Howie Menckel Posted: February 09, 2019 at 12:23 PM (#5813942)
What kind of numbers so you have to see to think that the advocacy groups are right?

I don't know how many real live people I would have to hear from who tell me that the use of the phrase "disabled list" caused them distress. but so far, the number that I know of is .... zero, which seems a little weird to me.

am I being too strict with my standard here?
   108. JustMe Posted: February 09, 2019 at 12:44 PM (#5813947)
Oh no no no. According to these guys, this is an analytical website where only hard statistics matter. Personal anecdotes are useless, except when they use them.

Thanks for highlighting another page from the right playbook. Constantly shifting goalposts and setting yourself up as the sole arbiter of what is acceptable discourse or not.

I have never seen the curved Earth. No one I know ever has. These people must be wrong.
   109. Baldrick Posted: February 09, 2019 at 12:55 PM (#5813950)
"Does this phrase cause X person Y amounts of pain" is not the relevant question. It's about whether the words contribute in a small but potentially meaningful way to broad social attitudes toward a group of people. No one is saying it's a form of hate speech.

This phrase is part of a broad tendency to regard disability in ways that make it less likely for disabled people to be treated as full participants in our social order. No one phrase CAUSES this problem, obviously, but a million of them together do have an effect. Big organizations listening to advocates who tell them about this, and then making (totally harmless!) changes where possible is good.
   110. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: February 09, 2019 at 01:04 PM (#5813951)
If they hadn't changed the name, this thread wouldn't have come to exist, so I don't think it's fair to call the decision "totally harmless."
   111. . Posted: February 09, 2019 at 01:32 PM (#5813955)
This phrase is part of a broad tendency to regard disability in ways that make it less likely for disabled people to be treated as full participants in our social order.


It's no such thing, anymore than "short term disability" in civilian offices. The "disabled list," like "short term disability" means only that the person is unable to work for a short period of time. The sense is obviously and solely the same as something like "disabling" the bank's security system before robbing the bank. Nothing more is expressed or implied and those who say otherwise aren't being honest brokers, in any sense.

And the same logic would also lead to white people being forbidden to listen to hip hop, so its adherents either don't really believe it, or are entirely inconsistent.
   112. JustMe Posted: February 09, 2019 at 01:38 PM (#5813956)
(111) I need objective sources on all those sentences.

You didn't make one factual claim. Use reason and logic. Don't just throw your feelings up and pretend it means anything.
   113. Howie Menckel Posted: February 09, 2019 at 01:56 PM (#5813958)
108 could be from a textbook in a "Strawmen, Projections, and Extrapolations 101" class.
or maybe it already is.

bonus points for trying to drag politics into it.
   114. JustMe Posted: February 09, 2019 at 02:03 PM (#5813962)
(113) Source?

Otherwise your statement is invalid.

Besides, I have never personally met someone who thinks like that, therefore you are fictional.
   115. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: February 09, 2019 at 02:24 PM (#5813966)
On this site, we have at least one poster who continues to use the r word with impunity.

Following this nonsense with the promiscuous use of "idiot" is so precious.
   116. Davo cant be eatin thirty hot dogs every day Posted: February 09, 2019 at 02:54 PM (#5813968)
wait I forgot about the other funny joke have any of you guys used the “whats wrong r u triggered?” line yet?
   117. Powderhorn™, arrogant local sailing champion Posted: February 09, 2019 at 03:16 PM (#5813970)
Are "some in our vommunity" distressed by the use of a given term? Undoubtedly, because in any group of 40 million there will be people who hold every conceivable opinion. The opinion of an undefined "some" should carry no weight.

Again, this is an analytical website. Without data specifically showing that the advocacy groups have gained a sense of the combined opinion of the 40 million, the distress claimed over use of the term is nothing more than anecdotal. The motivations of both MLB and advocacy groups are as suspect in this instance as the motivations of any other groups operating in the public sphere.
Since the advocacy groups are left unnamed here I'll have to take a guess. Most groups like that are staffed by a mix of people with disabilities and people whose day jobs involve working with or on the behalf of those people. So the "some" is the people in those groups. I realize I'm using logic instead of data but since logic is all that's needed to figure out the situation I don't think data is required here.
   118. . Posted: February 09, 2019 at 03:48 PM (#5813977)
Most groups like that are staffed by a mix of people with disabilities and people whose day jobs involve working with or on the behalf of those people.


Not sure exactly why the social rule is that an interpretation of common language made by a purely one-issue, one-niche-group governs. Given their makeup and aims, there's no reason whatever to think their interpretations are unbiased.(*) And we see that here -- their interpretation is frivolous if not ludicrous.

These people are human beings subject to all the biases and trappings of power and blinkered focus of other human beings. They aren't some kind of nobility. One can support the concept of civil rights fully, as do I, without having to buy whole cloth into this kind of obvious excess and misguidedness.

(*) It's right there in the name -- "advocates." IOW the same words affixed counsel to the parties in a civil or criminal lawsuit. Advocates for criminal clients or the government in criminal cases aren't purely dispassionate interpreters of facts -- they're "advocates." In those lawsuits, two sides are advocated, not just one. The reason for that is self-evident.
   119. JustMe Posted: February 09, 2019 at 10:31 PM (#5814018)
(118) You're just bloviating with personal opinions. Where are your sources?

You do realize words can have multiple meanings and those meanings don't have to be related. There's also a gay lifestyle magazine called the Advocate. How does that fit into your crackpot theories?

Don't reply without a source.
   120. BillWallace Posted: February 10, 2019 at 02:32 AM (#5814037)
No one in this thread has any sources (except Omineca Greg of course)... and they're not required, this is a philosophical debate, not a scientific one. JustMe your posts are pointless and obnoxious.

I don't doubt that there's someone out there who is sensitive to the very word disabled. I also don't really believe that anyone who asked for this change is doing it to flex authoritarian power.

But sometimes in life you have to just tell people that they're wrong, and to suck it up... even if they've already drawn the short end of the stick. If someone feels badly about the world disabled, that sucks... but it's a descriptor. You can't go around changing language every time someone feels badly about the normal usage of a normal word.


   121. JustMe Posted: February 10, 2019 at 03:05 AM (#5814038)
This isn't a philosophical debate. This is a bunch of angry white men yelling about how it's okay to be ableist.

And they are using a thin veneer of pretending it's "rational" and "logical" to do so.

As to your other point, there is tons of research that shows that language effects thoughts as much or more than the other way around. So listening to a group of historically oppressed and marginalized people as to which words to use isn't nothing. It's the only "rational" course of action.

Your hate-filled premise, while popular on this "analytical" website, is simply false.
   122. CStallion Posted: February 10, 2019 at 05:08 AM (#5814041)
120. BillWallace Posted: February 10, 2019 at 02:32 AM (#5814037)
No one in this thread has any sources (except Omineca Greg of course)... and they're not required, this is a philosophical debate, not a scientific one. JustMe your posts are pointless and obnoxious.

I don't doubt that there's someone out there who is sensitive to the very word disabled. I also don't really believe that anyone who asked for this change is doing it to flex authoritarian power.

But sometimes in life you have to just tell people that they're wrong, and to suck it up... even if they've already drawn the short end of the stick. If someone feels badly about the world disabled, that sucks... but it's a descriptor. You can't go around changing language every time someone feels badly about the normal usage of a normal word.


Exactly. Couldn't have said it any better.
   123. Omineca Greg Posted: February 10, 2019 at 09:36 AM (#5814054)
OK, I'll stop ####### about now.

And I'll give you a story.

True story. Not always the best kind, but in this case, it is. And I think on point, at least somewhat, to this discussion.

1981 was International Year of Disabled Persons. Famed English musician, Ian Dury, who had contracted polio as a child and suffered effects from it throughout his life, found the whole concept...I don't know...patronising? Condescending?

So he wrote and performed a song...Spasticus Autisticus. I won't belabour the lyrics too much, you can read them...see what you think...don't rush to judgment, there's actually a lot to unpack here.

I'm spasticus, I'm spasticus
I'm spasticus autisticus
I'm spasticus, I'm spasticus
I'm spasticus autisticus
I'm spasticus, I'm spasticus
I'm spasticus autisticus

I wibble when I piddle
Cos my middle is a riddle

I'm spasticus, I'm spasticus
I'm spasticus autisticus
I'm spasticus, I'm spasticus
I'm spasticus autisticus
I'm spasticus, I'm spasticus
I'm spasticus autisticus

I dribble when I nibble
And I quibble when I scribble

Hello to you out there in Normal Land
You may not comprehend my tale or understand
As I crawl past your window give me lucky looks
You can read my body but you'll never read my books

I'm spasticus, I'm spasticus
I'm spasticus autisticus
I'm spasticus, I'm spasticus
I'm spasticus autisticus
I'm spasticus, I'm spasticus
I'm spasticus autisticus

I'm knobbled on the cobbles
Cos I hobble when I wobble
Swim!

So place your hard-earned peanuts in my tin
And thank the Creator you're not in the state I'm in
So long have I been languished on the shelf
I must give all proceedings to myself

I'm spasticus, I'm spasticus
I'm spasticus autisticus
I'm spasticus, I'm spasticus
I'm spasticus autisticus
I'm spasticus, I'm spasticus
I'm spasticus autisticus

54 appliances in leather and elastic
100 000 thank yous from 27 spastics

Spasticus, spasticus
Spasticus autisticus
Spasticus, spasticus
Spasticus autisticus
Spasticus, spasticus
Spasticus autisticus

Widdling, griddling, skittling, diddling
Fiddling, diddling, widdling, diddling spasticus

I'm spasticus, spasticus
Spasticus autisticus
Spasticus, spasticus
Spasticus autisticus
Spasticus, spasticus
Spasticus autisticus

Spasticus, spasticus
Spasticus autisticus

I'm spasticus!
I'm spasticus!
I'm spasticus!
I'm spasticus!
I'm spasticus!
I'm spasticus!
I'm spasticus!
Spasticus!

Dury


"Spas" was commonly used as an insult, the Spastics Society would eventually change its name to Scope. So, as you can imagine, the response to this song was divisive. It was banned from the radio. Releasing it pretty much stopped Dury's career as a Top of the Pops musician. It's an angry song, a defiant song, to me it's thought provoking. To whom is the anger and defiance directed...is it the language that's offensive...or is it the attitude, the equating of disablement to slavery? And who gets to decide who gets to say what. Dury was disabled, and maybe that gives him a special right, an ownership of the issue...but then again, maybe it doesn't.

If you think those are questions with easy answers, then maybe you haven't thought about them enough.

Anyway, fast forward to 2012, the Paralympics were being held in London. I don't know how often people watch video links at BBTF, I think most people are working when they post here, or they think of this as a place to kill a few seconds, those seconds can add up, but quick quick, I think that's the general approach here. But please...please watch this. Indeed, it will take you five minutes, but those five minutes will be instructive about the way attitudes towards language and offensiveness change. It took thirty years from banning and cringing...to this.

Paralympics Opening Ceremonies, London 2012

I only wish Ian had lived to see it. It must be terrible to be so far ahead of your time that you never find out if you're a visionary...or just an #######.
   124. BillWallace Posted: February 10, 2019 at 12:15 PM (#5814091)
That was great, thanks. I'd never heard about that before.

In the mid 80s we were all calling each other Spaz on the playground as an insult, though I'm certain I didn't really know what it meant.

How about we rename the DL it the Dury List and call it a thread? I'm done anyway.
   125. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 10, 2019 at 02:44 PM (#5814123)
Without data specifically showing that the advocacy groups have gained a sense of the combined opinion of the 40 million, the distress claimed over use of the term is nothing more than anecdotal. The motivations of both MLB and advocacy groups are as suspect in this instance as the motivations of any other groups operating in the public sphere.

Why do you need that data? They didn't ask you to do anything, they asked MLB to do so. MLB apparently found their request persuasive and made the change with little if any fanfare. Nobody has done anything here to arouse skepticism, and the suspicion that MLB is doing this "for marketing purposes" is strange given that there is no marketing done around the DL/IL.

(If I were to be suspicious about anything here, I would wonder if this was the first step towards a multi-tiered injury list like the NFL does, with Inactive/Out/Doubtful/Questionable/Probable status, primarily to appease gamblers/fantasy owners. It wouldn't surprise me to see MLB move in that direction now that they have the partnership with MGM. But I don't think they would need such a pretense to make that change, given how open they've been about that partnership.)
   126. . Posted: February 10, 2019 at 03:56 PM (#5814142)
Nobody has done anything here to arouse skepticism, and the suspicion that MLB is doing this "for marketing purposes" is strange given that there is no marketing done around the DL/IL.


MLB's doing it to avoid being called bigoted and hateful and all the rest.
   127. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 10, 2019 at 10:53 PM (#5814218)
Always assuming the worst about people is a bad look and an unhappy way to go through life.
   128. JustMe Posted: February 11, 2019 at 01:24 AM (#5814233)
He's assuming everyone is as terrible as he is. I agree, it must be very unhappy.
   129. . Posted: February 11, 2019 at 07:10 AM (#5814240)
Always assuming the worst about people is a bad look and an unhappy way to go through life.


Interesting comments from the crowd who spends big chunks of every day calling people bigoted and racist and hateful. And for that matter spends a bunch of time searching out snippets of news and social media they can use as jumping off points to do it.
   130. JustMe Posted: February 11, 2019 at 07:33 AM (#5814242)
If people are calling you bigoted, racist, and hateful everyday, maybe you should take their words earnestly and do some self work. Have you ever done that?

It's not surprising that you get called a bigot everyday based on what you write here everyday. Maybe the problem is you and not everybody else.
   131. Lassus Posted: February 11, 2019 at 08:46 AM (#5814247)
This thread did not disappoint.
   132. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 11, 2019 at 09:10 AM (#5814251)
Interesting comments from the crowd who spends big chunks of every day calling people bigoted and racist and hateful.

I say the same thing about people who I think are too quick to make accusations of bigotry/racism. I tend to me more charitable about people's individual motives. I think I once even said I believe you're a real lawyer.
   133. . Posted: February 11, 2019 at 10:06 AM (#5814262)
I say the same thing about people who I think are too quick to make accusations of bigotry/racism. I tend to me more charitable about people's individual motives. I think I once even said I believe you're a real lawyer.


The connection between realizing that entities like MLB tend to shy away from bad publicity, and being unhappy is a bit ... shall we say ... tenuous.

I'm utterly indifferent as between disabled list and injured list, but that's just the thing -- so were the people who started calling it disabled list way back when. All the stuff about it being "marginalizing" and "formally coded" language and yadda-yadda-yadda is simply nonsense.

The change to "injured list" is akin to Harold Baines to the HOF, with Tony LaRussa being the "advocacy group" for the latter idea. Advocacy for a single group sometimes overshoots the mark, and for the reasons I've laid out, we should fully expect that there will be times when that happens. This was one of them. It's no more complicated than that.
   134. JustMe Posted: February 11, 2019 at 11:37 AM (#5814281)
Changing the name at the request of a historically marginalized group with no money and no power is akin to the process of inducting one of the worst HOF inductees in recent memories. Gotcha.

It's all just those fatcats at Big Wheelchair who are just going too far and taking too big a piece of the pie.

Your reliance on facts and reason is astounding, councellor. I'm glad you didn't rely on absurd connections to things unrelated to try to obfuscate the issue instead of admitting you are wrong on this one.
   135. Davo cant be eatin thirty hot dogs every day Posted: February 11, 2019 at 11:48 AM (#5814283)
131- I’m disappointed. No one made the attack helicopter joke yet.
   136. base ball chick Posted: February 11, 2019 at 12:09 PM (#5814286)
ok
i have read all these responses
and i am not understanding the outrage over changing calling the disabled list to the injured list

it doesn't change anything

although i do thinkit is interesting that MLB is happy to respond to requests from an advocacy group with zero problems, but yet is deaf to please from lots of people to change the name of the cleveland team from the ethnic description of a group of humans to something mild and less offensive. i personally, strongly recommend The Cleveland Chicks
   137. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: February 11, 2019 at 12:31 PM (#5814290)
The Memphis Chicks were a minor league franchise from 1901-1960 & again from 1978-1997. Things I learned today: The name was originally short for Chickasaws.
   138. . Posted: February 11, 2019 at 12:40 PM (#5814295)
Changing the name at the request of a historically marginalized group with no money and no power is akin to the process of inducting one of the worst HOF inductees in recent memories. Gotcha.


In terms of the way it got from point A to point B, yes -- it's very similar.

And not everything that historically marginalized groups say publicly is sensible or correct. Again, they're human, and their mission isn't really striking balances, just as the advocates in legal trials in the US aren't about striking balances.

Most of the work advocates for the disabled have done is awesome. This one missed the mark a bit and was excessive. It happens. Given their mission, it's bound to happen.

and i am not understanding the outrage over changing calling the disabled list to the injured list


There's no outrage. Someone asked early on "Why not do this, it's harmless"? and the answer was basically, "Because it's based on dumb premises and linguistic interpretations, and we should try to favor instead taking action on smart premises and linguistic interpretations." There's certainly no great dishonor, and certainly no outrage, in preferring sense to nonsense.

is deaf to please from lots of people to change the name of the cleveland team from the ethnic description of a group of humans


Well, changing those names would cost them money and so there's the answer. The change to "injured list" doesn't cost money and prevents bad publicity (*) so it's an easy call.

(*) Particularly to an industry that was so racist that it deprived many, many talented people jobs their skill clearly warranted for decade after decade after decade. "No, Josh Gibson -- there's no room for you in our industry -- after all, you're black." Not really the best look.
   139. base ball chick Posted: February 11, 2019 at 12:51 PM (#5814298)
138

i know i've known you for 15 years - what was your screen name before you changed it to dot?
   140. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 11, 2019 at 01:38 PM (#5814336)

bbc, that is SBB.
   141. Hysterical & Useless Posted: February 11, 2019 at 03:35 PM (#5814392)
I have never seen the curved Earth


Have you ever stood on the seashore and watched a boat sail away over the horizon? Did you just figure it fell off the edge?
   142. JustMe Posted: February 11, 2019 at 03:40 PM (#5814395)
(141) In case you actually took that sincerely, I was using the example of flat Earthers to highlight the absurdity of Howie Menkel's logic in post 107. Just because he hasn't seen something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Which was essentially his claim.
   143. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 11, 2019 at 03:47 PM (#5814400)

I once flew NYC-->LA-->Sydney-->Shanghai-->London-->NYC over the course of a few weeks. So I feel quite confident in saying that the world is, in fact, round.
   144. rr: drool-soaked and paralytic Posted: February 11, 2019 at 04:01 PM (#5814407)
And for that matter spends a bunch of time searching out snippets of news and social media they can use as jumping off points to do it.


You might want to take a look at who posted this.
   145. Howie Menckel Posted: February 11, 2019 at 07:30 PM (#5814468)
(141) In case you actually took that sincerely, I was using the example of flat Earthers to highlight the absurdity of Howie Menkel's logic in post 107. Just because he hasn't seen something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Which was essentially his claim.

I'll mainly stick with my response in 113, but I grant you extra credit for the non sequitur
   146. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: February 11, 2019 at 08:37 PM (#5814480)
i have read all these responses
and i am not understanding the outrage over changing calling the disabled list to the injured list


I think only one person here is outraged by it; that person is just being very loud.
   147. Greg Pope Posted: February 11, 2019 at 09:45 PM (#5814494)
I once flew NYC-->LA-->Sydney-->Shanghai-->London-->NYC over the course of a few weeks. So I feel quite confident in saying that the world is, in fact, round.

Doesn't really prove anything. How do you know for certain which direction you were flying in? But, more importantly, if the world looks like this then you could have done your flights on a flat earth.
   148. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: February 11, 2019 at 10:52 PM (#5814505)
[147] But if that is accurate, then the flight from Chile to Australia would take a lot longer.
   149. JustMe Posted: February 12, 2019 at 02:06 AM (#5814523)
(146) It really wasn't one person. Lots of people on the first page were spouting ableist BS. Only a few people are still pretending it's "rational" to do so.

(148) Maybe the pilots intentionally fly faster or slower to mislead you. Haha.
   150. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 12, 2019 at 02:25 AM (#5814524)

But, more importantly, if the world looks like this then you could have done your flights on a flat earth.

Fair point. But then the sun wouldn't have risen in the East in both NY and Sydney. Which I saw it do.
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