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1. Rich Rifkin I Posted: February 14, 2007 at 01:53 AM (#2297238)(Hey, this is fun!)
You can put it on the board
Unbelievably sucky.
See ya!
Does anyone else find it bizarre that a former player professes such love for a team that he never played for, or managed?
Chip Caray--now <u>that</u> guy sucks.
Does anyone else find it bizarre that a former player professes such love for a team that he never played for, or managed?
He did GM for them, and he's been associated with them longer than any other team.
And unlike almost all of his contemporaries, Harrelson is insistent that the level of play in MLB is at its highest right now. He refuses to live in the past (maybe because his own MLB career wasn't that spectacular).
Sure, he's a homer, but that doesn't bother me. He's not a network announcer or an ESPN guy - he's the White Sox' announcer. Where that holds him back is in doing PBP - when the White Sox aren't doing well, he starts to get frustrated, and that comes through in his announcing.
What he needs is a competent, professional announcer to be his partner. Darrin Jackson is a decent if unspectacular color man, but he doesn't have the chops to do PBP. Give Hawk a good PBP guy, then his homerism becomes charming, like Ron Santo's.
That's not going to make fans of other teams happy, but really, that's not Harrelson's job.
no, NASA scientists have proven that Hawk sucks
So, ahem: Hawk sucks!
And I think the same about announcers that pretend not to be homers.
Most local announcers are homers to some extent - at least Harrelson isn't trying to pretend differently.
My fav announcer is Skip Caray. He supports the Braves, but he is not shy of tearing into them. He compliments players from the opposing team, but he snarks at them too. Its a pity he won't be on TBS :(
This sounds like Bob Uecker, except for the "into the game" part.
I'll agree to disagree with you on this as I just don't think it's true. Sure, the announcers develop relationships with the team and players, but the good ones are so worried about calling a good game and reporting accurately, that it doesn't affect their job. I love hearing a game called well on the radio or even tv, but sadly, there aren't many who do it well.
Most local announcers are homers to some extent - at least Harrelson isn't trying to pretend differently.
Hawk takes it over the top, though. He seems to think that he's part of the team, with taunts (grab some bench, he gone, etc.) and nicknames (good guys, bad guys). Santo is excited when the Cubs do something good. Hawk is excited when "we" do something. And yes, a lot of announcers refer to the team as "we", but Hawk really seems to mean it.
That's not the real problem, though. The real problem is that he seems to think that every White Sox player is the best there's ever been at everything. That's hard to listen to.
There are other things, as well, like his stories. Like there's a mention of Nolan Ryan and Hawk will say something like, "I played with Nolan Ryan* one year. Man was he great. There was this one time when we were golfing and I hit this shot that...". You get all excited to hear a Nolan Ryan anecdote and it turns out to be a story of Hawk's 18-over par golf round where at the end of the round Ryan said "nice shot on 12".
*I made this up, I don't know if he ever played with Ryan.
Just listen to a local announcer when an umpire makes a close call for their team, or against them.
If it's for, the most you'll hear is, "we caught a break there".
If it's against, the announcer will spend 20 minutes going on about how "questionable" the call was.
They might think they're being neutral, but they're not.
And because his catchphrases are annoying as feck.
I understand what you're getting at, and I agree it points to a problem, but it's not the problem you think it is.
Harrelson is critical of White Sox players at times - it's just that he's critical of the players that Sox management is unhappy with. He's essentially a mouthpiece for the organization. If you're looking for an independent viewpoint on the White Sox, it ain't Hawk Harrelson.
Sure, but most local announcers are crappy. A lot of them seem bored out of their minds or drunk or stupid or toady-ish. It's why a really good baseball announcer is worth his weight in gold. Even the ones that tend to homerism, as long as it's not too bad, and they have other qualities to make up for it, are a rare and great thing. Ernie Harwell. Vin Scully. Guys like that. I really like the Mets guy Gary Cohen currently.
Of course, while the Expos existed, I really dug the French broadcasts. I had no idea what they were saying, but the phrase "Brad Wilkerson Bobble Head" in a sea of French jibber jabber was worth the MLB radio package all by itself.
I agree. If he weren't an announcer, and was just another White Sox fan cheering for his team, I would still hate him. I would hate him if he were a Royals fan and acted like that. He is god awful annoying.
Well, exactly. That's why Steve Stone was a good announcer and it was a disappointment when he was fired for (completely justified) criticism of the players. Being a mouthpiece for the organization takes you one step past "homer" and into Hawk territory.
My biggest problem with Hawk is that when things aren't going well, he stops talking. It's like he's fuming too much to form words. I don't like the catch phrases, but at least he's technically doing his job by describing what's happening.
Once in a while, his homerism actually leads to some outstanding, memorable calls. ("JOOOOOOE! CREDE!")
I agree it's a problem, but it's a battle that was lost long ago. Most current announcers are mouthpieces for the organization.
I agree it's a problem, but it's a battle that was lost long ago. Most current announcers are mouthpieces for the organization.
Harrelson's an employee of the Chicago White Sox. As long as you keep that in mind when listening to the analysis, he's no worse than most announcers out there.
OK, that, I can agree with.
Harrelson's an employee of the Chicago White Sox. As long as you keep that in mind when listening to the analysis, he's no worse than most announcers out there.
But not this. He's worse. A lot worse. In fact, the worst.
I subscribe to Extra Innings, so I hear a lot of different announcer teams. Most are bad, but they're boring bad. Hawk is annoying bad.
I can't watch the White Sox with the volume on. They are the only team that I have to mute.
Now I will grant that I haven't listened to Hawk for more than a few seconds in probably 5 years. However, a friend of mine routinely tells me about the two or three asinine things that the says each game. Also, no Hawk defender on any of these threads has said, "He's gotten better in the past few years." So I'll assume that he's the same that he ever was.
I just think they're all bad.
Harrelson would seem worse to someone who's not a White Sox fan.
I can't watch the White Sox with the volume on. They are the only team that I have to mute.
You can sit through an Angels broadcast? You have a stronger stomach than I do.
Heh. Or Myron Cope. He used to crack me up. I remember listening to one of his anti-(Modell-era) Cleveland Browns rants while the Steelers were beating the Browns in a playoff game as I drove back to Pittsburgh, and I damn near drove off a bridge I was laughing so hard.
"Ohhhhhhh! And now the JRE-Man throws down the gauntlet by bringing up the Hud-Dog! He's saying to G. Po, 'I'm putting up my worst against your worst, can you match my intensity?' The temperature is rising, and now Popey's going to have to bring it!"
This cannot be emphasized enough.
Goodman: Bradley really turned on that fastball, George.
Frazier: Yeah, you can see it was a fastball, and Hawpe really turned on it really well. Nice piece of hitting there.
Hawk's way better than those guys.
"Ohhhhhhh! And now the JRE-Man throws down the gauntlet by bringing up the Hud-Dog! He's saying to G. Po, 'I'm putting up my worst against your worst, can you match my intensity?' The temperature is rising, and now Popey's going to have to bring it!"
Ahhh yeah. Awesome post! Thanks!
Like I said, you have a stronger stomach than I do.
I can take about six seconds of Hudler and Physioc.
No he isn't. He's way worse. Period.
Wait, are you a Cubs fan?
If so, your stance makes more sense now.
That reminds me of a Harry Caray moment. Somebody got on base with two outs, and Harry moaned something about how they now had to pitch to the always-dangerous Ron Oester with a runner on. I thought "Ron Oester?" and assumed Harry had confused Oester with somebody who'd played 40 years earlier. Of course he hit one out. I think it was this game. Oester hit .295 that year, but that was his only HR.
And, yes, I'm listening to chemdoc and getting back to the main issue here: it's difficult to conceive of any realistic scenario in which Hawk does not suck.
No. I'm not sure on all of them, but I count a couple of Tigers fans, a Royals fan, and a couple of A's fans. For some reason, he particularly grates on Cubs fans, though. I was just wondering how anyone can think that Hawk and DJ are worse than Physioc and Hudler. Being a Cub fan would do it.
Like I said, I can understand why he'd be grating to non-White Sox fans, but that's not really his audience. And I also don't think he's a particularly good play-by-play man, but I also don't think he's much worse than the other options out there.
Hawk sucks. Period.
Fixed.
I'll admit to not being familiar with Most, but I have serious doubts that anyone can compare with Ufer when it comes to sheer, unabashed, over-the-top homerism.
Tim Salmon => "The Kingfish goes upstream again!" (barf)
David Eckstien => "He gets the most out of his abilities by hitting in the clutch the X-Factor does" (he almost forgot to throw in the X-Factor part)
Vlad Guerrero => "Vladdy daddy takes a huge cut"
Darin Erstad => "Ersty is a fine defensive firstbaseman and very vital to the team, even if you can't measure it" (if you can't measure it or describe it then DONT SAY IT)
The general tone of voice and the way he describes things is also annoying. For example if Francisco Rodriguez strikes somebody out it was with his nasty slider but if the closer of the other team strikes somebody out with an equally wicked pitch than it wasn't the Angel's player's day, or he'll get him next time without giving any due credit to the other team.
In conclusion Hawk apparently sucks, but REX HUDLER IS A TURD BURGALAR!!!!
Hawk sucks.
I'd rather listen to Harrelson than any NFL or NBA broadcasting crew.... because that at least means baseball is on TV.
Trying to think of another possible scenario and drawing blanks... He suck.
Sometime last season, I think it was SJ who came up with the all-time bad booth: Michael Kay, the Hawkeroo and the Hud-dog.
Most announcers don't openly root for the team from the press box. That's the difference. It's one thing to get excited when the team does something good. It's natural for the home broadcaster to get more excited about a home run for his team than for the other team. They're at every game. They know all the players and their families. No one is complaining about that.
I'll even let it slide when a broadcaster says something like "they could really use a strikeout right here" or something similar. But Hawk becomes a fan in the box, and it's really unprofessional. I don't know of any other announcer who sits in the booth and says "C'mon, Paulie, take on deep right here. Take him right here." Or "C'mon Mark, strike him out." It's really pretty pathetic.
The Sox had one good broadcaster out of four, and they let him get away. Then again, if I had to work with a piece of crap like Ed Farmer, I would have gone somewhere else, too.
The only time I can listen to Hawk is when their opponents homer or win a game or do something else good. I'll usually sync the Angels radio feed with the TV when the Angels play in Chicago, but I'll turn down the volume on the radio feed when they hit a home run just so I can listen to how upset Hawk is. I love me some Schadenfreude.
I just don't see what's wrong with that. His audience, like I said, is White Sox fans. They're thinking the exact same thing. There's no rule, written or otherwise, that says the announcer has to try to be dispassionate. It bugs me a lot more when announcers are pretending to be dispassionate when describing a play, but they're really coloring it in the light most generous to their own team. They're doing the fans much more of a disservice there - there's no illusion that Harrelson is anything but a homer.
It's only a problem when it interferes with his play-by-play, and like I said, I think he's a bad play-by-play guy.
The guy in that booth that really needs to go is Darrin Jackson. That's not really a dig at Jackson, but Harrelson needs a professional announcer to do play-by-play and carry him through the game, not a bland color guy like Jackson.
Maybe because they're more likely to live in Chicago, and therefore to watch WGN, and therefore to hear (and let's face it, to hear Hawk is to be annoyed by him) Hawk?
I'm a Cardinals fan, meaning I get to listen to Al Hrabosky say things like "Even though it's a two-run game, Izzy walked the switch hitter Neifi Perez there so he could get this better matchup with right-hander Derrek Lee." That is, I've been conditioned to bad announcing, but Hawk is so intolerable that he's in a whole other league. Hawk sucks.
See, I just don't see this.
I can understand how his announcing can be so intolerable to non-Sox fans.
I can agree that he's not a very good announcer.
But most announcers suck. Harrelson is at least occasionally entertaining.
I'm not too familiar with Most, but to get a feel for Myron Cope, imagine the most homerrific announcer you can imagine (let's call him "Hawk Harrelson," just for the sake of argument), and combine him with the voice and inflection of Gilbert Gottfried. The guy's annoyance was so sublime as to be entertaining.
Hawk is the reason I started to really hate the Sox. It's not that he's a homer - even though he is - and it's not that he roots for his team to win - although that is annoying too - it's that he openly mocks the other team when they fail.
He Gone. He'll grab some bench.
It's like he's sticking a big middle finger up to the other team and their fans. I've never heard any other announcer do that (they might, I just haven't heard it).
And the incessant whining about how the umpires are "squeezing" and "cheating" the Sox is really annoying. Enough ######## and moaning.
When he actually calls the game, I like him. But the other stuff gets in the way. And, like many other posters on this thread, I love to listen to him when the Sox lose.
I've heard Cope and MOst. They're similar, but nobody was as annoying as Johnny Most if you hated the Celtics (as all good people do).
It was immensely frustrating for me because I wanted to watch the Sox in 2005 and 2006, but simply couldn't make it more than five minutes without turning to another game. He makes White Sox broadcasts toxic waste for non-Sox fans.
I did endure the White Sox sweep of the Cardinals in 2006, as painful as that was, and I will give Hawk credit for needing only two innings to recognize Mulder's arm was about to fall off, something that took the Cardinals about a month to figure out (and then figure out again).
No. He's not.
Well, different strokes and all that.
Don't get me wrong - I watch 90% of broadcasts with the sound down. I don't think he's particularly talented.
I just think that most broadcasters suck. Harrelson doesn't stick out to me as particularly bad.
Yes. He is. Period!
I hate him for the same reasons Shredder points out in 72. I don't really care about the Sox one way or the other, I just try to watch their games to get a baseball fix, and Hawk makes it impossible. Does anyone actually enjoy him? Because it's apparent from this thread, and any other's about him, that he's driving away at least a handful of viewers.
You dooooo?!?
The Giants announcers (Krook) definitely say stuff like grab some pine meat! But they also heckle the old ball boys by the bullpen and fans etc.
Other guys definitely do that, even when "their" team screws up as much or more often.
If I do have the sound on, the umpire complaints cause me to turn it down 100% of the time. "Aw, MAN!"
"Enjoy" is way too damn strong a word, but I think Harrelson is getting short shrift here. Trees in #46 is right: When he has his head in the game (admittedly not all the time) Hawk is a very good PBP man.
Quick test for the PBP guy: If you walk out the room, can you still follow the game by what the announcer says? Try this with Joe Buck or (god forbid) Kenny Albert some time; you'll forget what sport you were watching before you finish making your sandwich. Harrelson, OTOH, lets you know what's going on.
I've posted this before, but in 2001 I charted about 75% of the pitches of every game I watched (I didn't have EI that year), judging PBP guys on how often they identified the pitch and reset the count (I wish I still had the numbers). Hawk did surprisingly well: third behind Miller & Scully in both categories. Plus he has an excellent eye for when a sinking liner will fall or be caught, he keeps you abreast of what's happening on the bases, and he does a very good job of saying what the hitter did in his prior at bat.
There's a tallest-midget aspect to this, to be sure, but Harrelson is far better than anyone who works on Fox. If you'd seriously prefer Buck to Hawk, then I don't know what it is you want in an announcer.
And even though I'm not a Chisox fan, I like his homerism. I was thinking just the other day that one of the dislikeable things about the NFL was that no matter where you lived or how much money you were willing to pay, it was impossible to get any game telecast from a given team's point of view. A Hawkcast is completely, totally, 100% Soxcentric, and that, IMHO, is a good thing.
Happy Base Ball
My favorite Johnny Most call, coughing hacks inserted as necessary"
“Greer is putting the ball in play. (Hack-cough-chazerai!) He gets it out deep (Hack-hack-cough-phlegm-hack-cough-chazerai!) and Havlicek steals it! (Hack-cough.) Over to Sam Jones…Havlicek stole the ball! It's all over… It's all over! (Hack-hack-cough-phlegm-hack-cough-chazerai!)”
I agree with this completely. I hate the White Sox solely because of Harrelson. Not only that I hate White Sox fans because of their moral failing of not hating Harrelson. Harrelson is a scourge against humanity and anyone who doesn't immediately condemn him is a bad person in my book. He's a complete and unadulterated disgrace. Not only is he an insult to the intelligence of the audience he's an offense against the idea of justice and human dignity. The fact that White Sox fan can't see it just proves that sit in the deepest pit of hell along with Philly fan for their crude ignorance and unabashed stupidity.
And don't even try to say that other teams have announcers just as bad. I watch a lot of games through mlb.tv and if the general level isn't very high the difference between Harrelson and the next worse is like the difference between me and Pujols at turning on a fastball.
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