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Tuesday, November 20, 2007

MLB: Mets acquire catcher Johnny Estrada

It’s about time Guillermo Mota helped the team…oh, wait.

The New York Mets announced today that they have acquired catcher Johnny Estrada from the Milwaukee Brewers in exchange for righthanded pitcher Guillermo Mota.

“Johnny adds depth to our catching situation,” said Mets General Manager Omar Minaya. “He’s a former All-Star who switch-hits and has hit over .300 three times in his career.”

Repoz Posted: November 20, 2007 at 11:37 PM | 187 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: brewers, mets

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   1. Joshemy Posted: November 20, 2007 at 11:40 PM (#2621880)
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
   2. Dr. Vaux Posted: November 20, 2007 at 11:41 PM (#2621881)
"Adds depth" doesn't mean he'll be the starter--it means he won't--and Mota's gone. Good deal.
   3. PerroX Posted: November 20, 2007 at 11:41 PM (#2621882)
Mets have to have at least one former Brave on their roster.
   4. Dan Broderick Posted: November 20, 2007 at 11:42 PM (#2621884)
I'm not crazy about Estrada but just getting rid of Mota makes this a great trade. Nice work, Omar.
   5. Honkie Kong Posted: November 20, 2007 at 11:42 PM (#2621886)
This is an absolute steal for the Mets. Are they giving the Brewers any cash?
Estrada didn't have a great season, but if your catchign replacement is Kendall, you would probably want to hang onto him or, atleast trade him for a little value in return.
   6. Win one for Agrippa (haplo53) Posted: November 20, 2007 at 11:44 PM (#2621887)
I'm not crazy about Estrada but just getting rid of Mota makes this a great trade. Nice work, Omar.


Same here. I welcome Warm Body to the Mets, and I'm glad Omar could acquire him for perhaps the worst Met ever to wear the uniform (probably not, but it feels like it).
   7. Neil Kinnock...Lord Palmerston! (Orinoco) Posted: November 20, 2007 at 11:45 PM (#2621890)
in exchange for righthanded pitcher Guillermo Mota.


Happy happy days are here again.
   8. PerroX Posted: November 20, 2007 at 11:45 PM (#2621891)
Favorite Estrada moment as a Brave was in a nearly empty Marlins stadium when he wheeled around on Doug Eddings and cussed him out face-to-face.

Quiz: Who was the batter at the plate?
   9. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: November 20, 2007 at 11:45 PM (#2621893)
Estrada may be a lazy douche, but still, great trade for the Mets. Mota was traded for cash considerations or something 1 1/2 year ago, became probably one of the ten most hated players in baseball (and maybe #1 most hated compared to how significant he is) and now he's a lot more valuable?

This marks the sixth time Mota has been traded in six years. Not waived and signed somewhere else, not moved as a free agent, but traded. Call me crazy, but I think that's a lot.
   10. Joshemy Posted: November 20, 2007 at 11:46 PM (#2621895)
To clarify #1, Estrada can platoon nicely with Castro I guess, but that's not where my excitement comes from.

It comes from the fact that that ############# piece of #### Mota is gone. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
   11. Orange & Blue Velvet Posted: November 20, 2007 at 11:50 PM (#2621901)
I'M FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.
   12. Cowboy Popup Posted: November 20, 2007 at 11:52 PM (#2621902)
Did Doug Melvin just give up in June?
   13. Amit Posted: November 20, 2007 at 11:53 PM (#2621906)
For his career he's .284/.328/.412 against righties. How's his D?
   14. thetailor (Brian) Posted: November 20, 2007 at 11:53 PM (#2621907)
LIKE.
   15. AJMcCringleberry Posted: November 20, 2007 at 11:57 PM (#2621909)
Woo hoo!

Kendall and Barrett are better than Estrada, but then Mota would've still been on the team.
   16. AJMcCringleberry Posted: November 20, 2007 at 11:58 PM (#2621912)
How's his D?

He threw out 11 of 84 guys last year.
   17. Sam M. Posted: November 20, 2007 at 11:58 PM (#2621914)
Happy days are here again,
the skies above are clear again.
Let's sing a song of cheer again,
happy days are here again.

We could have received a bottle of Milwaukee's Finest in return. The beer inside could have been warm, flat and deeply unsatisfying. Hell, the bottle could have been empty. It could even have been broken, with jagged and dangerous edges.

Happy days would still have been here again.

Instead, we received a serviceable catcher to share the duties with Castro. Not a good catcher, but you know what Estrada isn't?

He isn't Mr. Slimeball™!

He isn't Guillermo Mota!!!!!!

It really is two days before Thanksgiving, isn't it?

I heart Omar.
   18. Rough Carrigan Posted: November 20, 2007 at 11:59 PM (#2621915)
You snooze, you lose, Yorvit!!
   19. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: November 20, 2007 at 11:59 PM (#2621917)
This is the definition of challenge trade. Mota sucked last year, but his stuff is pretty good. Estrada sucked last year, but he has shown himself to be useful in previous years.
   20. Evil Twin Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:00 AM (#2621918)
This thread is going to be so cute when Mets fans turn on Estrada as a "lazy, slow, piece of ####\" on May 1st.

That said, I have to agree that the Mets "won" this deal. Melvin could have just non-tendered Estrada, but then he would have had to admit that the Doug Davis trade was a bad one. Instead, he gets to talk about Mota's velocity this spring and this being a chance for Mota to "turn himself around".
   21. Sam M. Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:02 AM (#2621922)
This thread is going to be so cute when Mets fans turn on Estrada as a "lazy, slow, piece of ####" on May 1st.

Nope. Because you know what his nickname is going to be?

Not Mota™.

He's got a free pass, no matter what.
   22. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:02 AM (#2621923)
Estrada and Castro hitting 8th means no real holes in the lineup. I like it.
   23. NTNgod Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:03 AM (#2621925)
MOTA?!?!??!! Dear God, they really must have wanted Estrada gone.

Did Melvin figure the best way to get Bill Hall's bat back on track was to have Mota around to throw him his changeups in BP?
   24. Fred Garvin is dead to Mug Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:03 AM (#2621926)
What an awful trader for the Brewers. I realize they had all sorts of bullpen problems last year, but why on Earth would they make this deal.

Harveys? NTNGod?
   25. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:04 AM (#2621929)
Kendall and Barrett are better than Estrada

Man, . . . this really is a dry market for catchers. One guy the Cubs were mocked for taking, the other the Cubs were thrilled to be rid of.

How's his D?

He threw out 11 of 84 guys last year.

In 2006 it was 27 of 93.

In 2005 it was 26 of 84.

In 2004 it was 16 of 86.

That's his starting career - guys steal at a 77% clip on him over it.

Fourth team in four years.
   26. Sam M. Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:05 AM (#2621930)
You snooze, you lose, Yorvit!!

I would really like to know the real story behind that one. Did he and his agent try to shope the Mets' offer? Did somebody leak something in his background to the Mets they didn't like? Did a physical actually get done and the Mets didn't like something in the results? Did the Mets just change their minds about the wisdom of the contract itself?

It is really amazing how little has leaked about that situation . . . .
   27. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:06 AM (#2621931)
Actually, I came here expected Mets' fans to celebrate - but celebrating because this means it's less likey they'll haul LoDuca back.
   28. NTNgod Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:06 AM (#2621932)
Mil J-S blog:
Just talked with Doug Melvin and he told me a deal is not complete to sign free agent catcher Jason Kendall but it sounds as if it is very close. I'm guessing it'll be finalized tomorrow.

As I pointed out in my last blog, the Brewers wouldn't have traded Johnny Estrada to the Mets for reliever Guillermo Mota if they didn't haved a plan in place to replace him.
...
Here's the deal as best I can explain it, and I'll try to have more details in my story in the JS tomorrow. The Brewers want a catcher who has more energy, who is more positive, who gets along with pitching coach Mike Maddux and works well with all of the pitchers on the staff.

The Brewers aren't saying Kendall is a world beater. Basically, the just want a catcher who plays nicely in the sandbox with others.
   29. PerroX Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:06 AM (#2621933)
why on Earth would they make this deal.

Estrada's toast.

Quiz answer: Paul Lo Duca
   30. Sam M. Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:08 AM (#2621935)
this means it's less likey they'll haul LoDuca back.

That too!!!

It's a win-win situation: no Mota and no LoDuca. Goodness, everytime a bell rings, an angel gets his wings!

Attaboy, Omar!
   31. Mark Brouhards Jelly Donut Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:09 AM (#2621936)
Melvin isn't THAT kind of fool. He knows Mota is a giant box of suck crackers. But he's also someone who can easily be cut and forgotten about if he's as bad as he's been.

Estrada, however, you're stuck with for the whole year. Where there's smoke, there's fire, and the fact that Arizona and Atlanta couldn't wait to be rid of the guy speaks just as many volumes as trading a starting position player for Guillermo Mota.

According to the washer women, Estrada is a slow-acting poison for a pitching staff and a clubhouse. I wish we had just non-tendered him, but losing Johnny's lazy tuchus makes this a semi-win for me.
   32. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:09 AM (#2621937)
I could never hate Mota. He just seems like the saddest guy in the entire world. He has the some of the best stuff any reliever could hope to have. He needs to get ahead with his fastball to set up that good change.

There's been a gap between his stuff and results for a long time though. I wish him luck.

Estrada for Mota is a solid move for the Mets.
   33. J. Cross Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:11 AM (#2621939)
Love it.

Estrada hits righties pretty well for a catcher. He's cheap. You get a one year deal on him.

Oh, and Mota is GONE. That's really the best part. Addition by subtraction.
   34. Joshemy Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:11 AM (#2621940)
I fully support Estrada's nickname being "Not Mota".

And that's right, no LoDuca either!
   35. Swedish Chef Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:12 AM (#2621941)
The Brewers aren't saying Kendall is a world beater. Basically, the just want a catcher who plays nicely in the sandbox with others.


That's a really young team.
   36. NTNgod Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:14 AM (#2621945)
Estrada hits righties pretty well for a catcher. He's cheap. You get a one year deal on him.


He makes Mike Piazza look like Johnny Bench throwing people out.
(The Reds in a late season game this year at Miller stole like five bases off Estrada/Sheets the first three-four innings - they were running EVERYONE. If any of the Mets pitchers are slow to home, or have poor moves...)

Still, MOTA?????
   37. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:15 AM (#2621946)
Another thing to like about Estrada is that he is a type A player. Another good year and you could get a 1st rounder for him.
   38. Fred Garvin is dead to Mug Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:18 AM (#2621948)
(Kendall + Mota) < (Estrada + Whomever)
   39. Lassus Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:18 AM (#2621950)
Does this mean Casto's our new starter? Strict platoon? Hmmmmm..... thoughts?
   40. Swedish Chef Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:20 AM (#2621952)
Another thing to like about Estrada is that he is a type A player. Another good year and you could get a 1st rounder for him.


As a backup? Hard to see how he could keep that status after this year and being a part-timer next year. Of course, Elias' supersecret formula may think otherwise.
   41. J. Cross Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:25 AM (#2621958)
He makes Mike Piazza look like Johnny Bench throwing people out.

Piazza's thrown out 23% of baserunners for his career with 1.2 SBA/9 innings.

Estrada's thrown out 24% of baserunners for his career with 0.8 SBA/9 innings.

So, runners have almost as much success against Estrada but run with 50% less frequency. I think you have to give Estrada the edge in controlling the running game.
   42. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:25 AM (#2621959)
You have to think the Brewers see something in Mota or the Mets are sending money to the Brewers. The Brewers could have just non-tendered Estrada and signed a different reliever.
   43. J. Cross Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:29 AM (#2621962)
Well, Mota's "only" making $3.2M this year. I'd suspect that the Mets are paying part of that and I also suspect that the Brewers would have otherwise just non-tendered Estrada.

Still, I think Estrada is a good fit for the Mets and getting some team to take *any* of Mota's contract is a plus.
   44. The Keith Law Blog Blah Blah (battlekow) Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:31 AM (#2621963)
What's Dave Nilsson doing these days?
   45. Best Dressed Chicken in Town Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:32 AM (#2621966)
guys steal at a 77% clip on him

And league average these days is up to 75%.

Mota is going to have an awesome season and at some point next season a Mets fan will think that they could really use Mota right about now. Yup.
   46. The District Attorney Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:33 AM (#2621967)
I am not seeing it, guys. Estrada's TERRIBLE. .296 OBP terrible. Grounding into 22 DP per 162 games terrible. .366 offensive winning percentage terrible.

Yes, he's less toxic than Mota. But we're going to be PLAYING him, DAILY. At least you could have buried Mota in the back of the bullpen. And, since I'm guessing Willie likes his job, I'm guessing that's exactly where Mota would have been. Estrada is going to be hurting the team more than Mota would have.

Awful.

(Don't ask me what better options there were, 'cause you already know.)

(If Castro gets most of the playing time, different story.)

(Bet he doesn't.)
   47. NTNgod Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:38 AM (#2621972)
Does this mean Casto's our new starter?


That would make Estrada the highest paid backup in the league, I'd think, unless the Mets just wanted to dump Mota and are planning on non-tendering Estrada if they can find an alternative.

I think you have to give Estrada the edge in controlling the running game.


I may have been off on the CS% percentages, but "controlling the running game" is not a phrase you will be using a month or so into the season if they keep Estrada around. I don't know how slow the Mets pitchers are in their deliveries, but if any of them are... have fun.

In the warm glow of the hot stove, it's understandable... but just you wait...

(Not that Kendall can throw, either... but if he's cheap enough, there's a sliver of hope he could at least provide a little OBP - it depends on the $$$)
   48. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:41 AM (#2621975)
The nl ran wild on Kendall while he was a Cub. 52/59 against in 50 starts.
   49. Zeba Zeba Eata Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:41 AM (#2621976)
SOOOOO Happy!!!!!

Estrada? Meh. Still... SOOOOO Happy!!!
   50. J. Cross Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:42 AM (#2621977)
In the warm glow of the hot stove, it's understandable... but just you wait...

Hey, I'm just saying that he's better than Piazza was. Also, I believe that the league SB% has been higher or late which increases Estrada's edge on Piazza (relative to his peers).
   51. Sam M. Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:42 AM (#2621978)
I am not seeing it, guys. Estrada's TERRIBLE. .296 OBP terrible. Grounding into 22 DP per 162 games terrible. .366 offensive winning percentage terrible.

That's ONE year of data, DA -- a year in which Estrada was playing hurt (according to the article, post-season surgeries to both deal with a knee problem and remove bone spurs from his elbow). In 2006, Estrada had a .328 OBP.

Is he going to be great, or even particularly good? I doubt it. But in a platoon role, in which he can be spotted and not counted on for anything special, he can probably be adequate, and he certainly won't consistently be wounding us in the high-leverage situations in which Mota killed the Mets in 2007. Now, you can say Randolph would have learned his lesson and not done that with Mota in 2008 anyway.

To which my answer is: oh? Would you really have been confident of that after what you saw last year? Now, I'm sure: Willie Randolph will NOT be breaking our hearts by inserting Mota at the wrong time, night after night, any more. Hallelujah.
   52. J. Cross Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:46 AM (#2621980)
Does this mean Casto's our new starter?

That would make Estrada the highest paid backup in the league, I'd think


I think their 2008 salaries could be fairly similar.
   53. NTNgod Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:47 AM (#2621982)
The nl ran wild on Kendall while he was a Cub.

Oh, I'm well aware of Kendall's issues, and am not doing cartwheels about his acquisition. If the deal is cheap enough, I can live with it, though.

The main mover of this deal was that Estrada's a world-class dick, it seems (too many teams saying the same thing).... I'm surprised Levski hasn't chimed in yet with a "I TOLD YOU SO" post.
   54. NTNgod Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:49 AM (#2621983)
I think their 2008 salaries could be fairly similar.


Estrada's probably going to get at least $4-$5 mil in his final year of arb, since he's been a starter for several years, and it's a weak position overall (so he'll compare well).

I thought Castro was about $2m?

EDIT: Davidoff in his Newsday article thinks Estrada will clear $5-$6m in arb. Of course, Davidoff also says: Throughout all of his stops -- from Philadelphia to Atlanta, to Arizona, to Milwukaee -- he has earned praise for his handling of pitchers.

When the opposite is true. (Davidoff also couldn't spell Milwaukee correctly, either :P)
   55. Zeba Zeba Eata Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:52 AM (#2621986)
I expect Castro to start about 80 games, Estrada 70, 3rd catcher (when one or other of the two gets DL'd) 12. I think that combination will outperform the average C situation by a decent amount offensively and be reasonable defensively. For a combined 7-8 million, that's pretty good.
   56. Sam M. Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:55 AM (#2621988)
The main mover of this deal was that Estrada's a world-class dick, it seems (too many teams saying the same thing)....

Let's see . . . A catcher who can't throw, whose offense is declining, and who creates controversy in the clubhouse with a bad attitude? Somehow that sounds familiar . . . I can't quite place it, though . . . hold on, it's on the tip of my tongue . . . .

Oh, yes! I know! Sounds pretty much like Estrada is a LoDuca clone if you ask me, except that he's younger, and doesn't have the ludicrous rep as a clubhouse "leader" that comes when the media finds a loudmouth, redass white guy with "heart" and "guts". The only difference? Resigning LoDuca would have been a multi-year commitment for a lot more money and it wouldn't have been gotten rid of Mota.
   57. Win one for Agrippa (haplo53) Posted: November 21, 2007 at 12:59 AM (#2621991)
Willie Randolph will NOT be breaking our hearts by inserting Mota at the wrong time, night after night, any more. Hallelujah.


Just wait till he makes Estrada his seventh inning guy out of the pen.
   58. BeanoCook Posted: November 21, 2007 at 01:03 AM (#2621996)
Both players are dicks, only Mota has talent, Estrada plays like a 40 yr old. We will see if Maddux can get this guy on track. I expect the brewers to collect as many arms as possible this off season and go from there.

Almost all relievers not headed to the HOF, have one crappy year, followed by a good year. The Brewers slightly improved their team with this deal. The Mets may have as well.

Kendall is not an upgrade, but his offense will be at least as good as Estrada's 2006 season and he is not a dick.
   59. NTNgod Posted: November 21, 2007 at 01:08 AM (#2622002)
Let's see . . . A catcher who can't throw, whose offense is declining, and who creates controversy in the clubhouse with a bad attitude?


I don't recall LoDuca being moved around like a hot potato specifically because teams were dying to get him out of their clubhouses, though.
   60. Sam M. Posted: November 21, 2007 at 01:09 AM (#2622005)
Just wait till he makes Estrada his seventh inning guy out of the pen.

I see you haven't received the Not Mota™ memo yet.

The candidates for the seventh inning, I assume, are Pedro II (though he's more apt to split the 8th w/ Heilman), Joe Smith, Duaner Sanchez, Schoeneweis (when lefties are due up), Jorge Sosa, and perhaps the kids they drafted this year, Eddie Kunz and Brant Rustich. And, of course, anybody else they might sign or acquire.
   61. Honkie Kong Posted: November 21, 2007 at 01:13 AM (#2622008)
Estrada was mostly a model citizen while he was in Atlanta. Though he did come with rumours that the Phillies didn't like his attitude.
I thought Villareal/Cormier was a not full value for him. Subsequent events did prove me wrong!
   62. The District Attorney Posted: November 21, 2007 at 01:14 AM (#2622010)
I don't see how you can both say Estrada might bounce back from last year, and say he's as good as Lo Duca. If Estrada can bounce back to '06, then so can Lo Duca... when Lo Duca was better. Or maybe they'll both re-create '05... when Lo Duca was better. Or maybe they'll just repeat '07... when Lo Duca was better. No, I am not saying we should have gotten Lo Duca back. I'm saying this guy's worse than Lo Duca, who killed the team last year, and thus isn't a solution to anything.

I'm not even considering personality here. We'll see what Estrada is like with the Mets; that's a completely different atmosphere. If he is a dick, then it's certainly not going to help that Lo Duca was one too. Is there a dick quotient? (Sam, don't answer that.) Having an unproductive, unpleasant player is a bad thing regardless of whether we had one last year or not.
   63. CrosbyBird Posted: November 21, 2007 at 01:15 AM (#2622011)
What about Burgos, Urdeneta, and Padilla? I figure all of them will at least get a chance to show something in spring training.

Burgos in particular is the type of guy that could end up being something special. He's got a serious fastball and he's only going to be 24. Plus his name is just awesome.
   64. JasonParks Posted: November 21, 2007 at 01:15 AM (#2622012)
I take it that the Rangers were asking too much for Gerald Laird.......
   65. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: November 21, 2007 at 01:16 AM (#2622013)
I rethink my earlier praise for the Mets. Estrada is not an upgrade on BlowDuca in either skill or attitude. Maybe Castro will have a breakout season and this is clearing the way for that to happen. I predict it'll turn out that last year was the last year for Estrada as a starting catcher.
   66. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: November 21, 2007 at 01:19 AM (#2622018)
Padilla didn't have much stuff wise in 2005 and I think that was 2 surgeries ago. I hope they sign a Dotel or the like. Burgos is going to be out for most of the year because of TJ surgery.
   67. Sam M. Posted: November 21, 2007 at 01:22 AM (#2622021)
I don't see how you can both say Estrada might bounce back from last year, and say he's as good as Lo Duca. If Estrada can bounce back to '06, then so can Lo Duca...

First of all, catchers going into their age-32 seasons (who have caught all of 571 major league games) are more likely to have bounce back in them than catchers going into their age 36 seasons who have caught over 900 games. This is especially true when you can point to specific injuries the the younger guy was playing with and which have been dealt with in the off-season, and which might well have been impacting his performance. Granted, LoDuca was playing with a lot of nagging injuries in 2007, but those are of the type that every catcher has to play with and which he is certain to face in 2008, as well.

No, I am not saying we should have gotten Lo Duca back. I'm saying this guy's worse than Lo Duca, who killed the team last year, and thus isn't a solution to anything.

The biggest difference is that you weren't going to be able to bring back LoDuca on a one-year deal, which is the only commitment you have to Estrada. If your only options right now are bad (or mediocre) ones, then it's best to be tied to the one you select for as short a time period as possible. I had no desire to be tied to Paul LoDuca for the next 2-3 years of his continuing decline. If Estrada sucks, we endure it for a year and we're done with it and upgrade next year. That's a much better position to be in.

Is there a dick quotient? (Sam, don't answer that.)

Boy, is that an unfair set up line to just put out there and then deny me the pay-off . . . . Sheesh . . . .
   68. NTNgod Posted: November 21, 2007 at 01:28 AM (#2622028)
I don't see how you can both say Estrada might bounce back from last year, and say he's as good as Lo Duca.

Estrada now has the combined powers of being Not Mota™ and Not LoDuca™ (Not LoMota™ ?) .

He could hit .167 next year, violate Mr. Met on top of the home dugout, and throw the ball into CF on every stolen base attempt (or bounce it, more likely)... and he'll STILL probably get a get free pass :P
   69. St.Philly Posted: November 21, 2007 at 01:31 AM (#2622032)
This is like changing horses on the crap-go-round.

I think Mota is slightly more likely to benefit from the change than Estrada.
   70. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: November 21, 2007 at 01:32 AM (#2622036)
Estrada was basically free as Mota was essentially dead weight. There's really no reason to believe that Lo Doca will be much better than him. This is a shorter commitment and lets the Mets get some value from Mota's money. Heck, the Mets could nontender Estrada and just pretend that Mota got claimed off waivers.
   71. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 21, 2007 at 01:33 AM (#2622037)
I take it Mota is not very good?
   72. Amit Posted: November 21, 2007 at 01:35 AM (#2622038)
NoMota. I'll take it.
   73. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: November 21, 2007 at 01:42 AM (#2622049)
Honestly, I am pretty happy to have gone from having Mota on the team and looking at three years of Torrealba to no Mota and a one commitment to Estrada.
   74. The District Attorney Posted: November 21, 2007 at 01:44 AM (#2622052)
Plus I said "quotient" when I meant "quota." Oh, well.

A strange game. The only winning move is not to play Johnny Estrada.
   75. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: November 21, 2007 at 01:46 AM (#2622057)
As someone who has some contact with those around the team I am now somewhat free to discuss Estrada.

He is beyond toxic. He drinks nuclear waste for breakfast and pisses hate. That he is bi-lingual only means he can alienate twice as many people twice as fast.

That he was on a team with Mr. Milktoast Can't We All Just Get Along just created the perfect breeding ground for Estrada's reign of terror. Yost was helpless when confronted with a player who spews more acid than a creature from "Alien".

I have no illusions about Mota. But he is not Estrada.

And that is a good thing.
   76. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: November 21, 2007 at 01:49 AM (#2622065)
Mota and Estrada-both players good enough to be regulars, and between them, now traded 10 times in the last six years. HW's point makes it obvious that this is the rarely found challenge trade, with the position that both players play being "d-bag".
   77. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: November 21, 2007 at 01:50 AM (#2622067)
Didn't Estrada and Yost nearly go at it because Yost showed up Hardy for making an error? I thought that was a classy move, no sarcasm.
   78. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: November 21, 2007 at 01:53 AM (#2622071)
I think that saying it's a "classy move" to start yelling at your manager depends heavily on a deep knowledge of the context. That could easily have been Estrada taking advantage of an opportunity to make Yost look weak for no particular reason. We have no idea.
   79. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: November 21, 2007 at 01:56 AM (#2622078)
Russlan:

I am sorry Mets fans. There is nothing CLASSY about Johnny Estrada. Please do not fool yourselves.

Take heart that MAYBE playing in NY will cause Estrada to suppress his natural instincts to be a cancer. That and perhaps Moises Alou will bash his brains in with a bat early in spring training.

Yost should have been strong enough to handle this guy. He failed. But then Bobby Cox, BOBBY COX, ditched this guy. And when exactly have the Braves let someone go who could REALLY play?
   80. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: November 21, 2007 at 01:57 AM (#2622080)
Yost went to the mound and started jawing at Hardy. How much else do we need to know?

I am not really worried about his attitude. The Mets have the veterans on the club to keep him quiet. He could suck and I am more worried about that.
   81. The District Attorney Posted: November 21, 2007 at 01:58 AM (#2622081)
As someone who has some contact with those around the team I am now somewhat free to discuss Estrada.

He is beyond toxic. He drinks nuclear waste for breakfast and pisses hate.
I wonder if that's worse than whatever Lo Duca did that Will Young isn't free to discuss.

perhaps Moises Alou will bash his brains in with a bat early in spring training.
Or mistake Estrada's hands for his own.
   82. NTNgod Posted: November 21, 2007 at 01:59 AM (#2622083)
Didn't Estrada and Yost nearly go at it because Yost showed up Hardy for making an error?


IIRC, Graffanino fired the first verbal shot back at Yost, then Estrada leapt in and almost came to blows w/ Yost.
   83. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: November 21, 2007 at 02:00 AM (#2622085)
Not "classy" by any definition of the word. But not something only a bad guy would do.
   84. Orange & Blue Velvet Posted: November 21, 2007 at 02:03 AM (#2622087)
There is nothing CLASSY about Johnny Estrada. Please do not fool yourselves.

You better pray Mota isn't lights out in ST. Though his stuff fools people, its far more likely to fool his manager than it is opposing hitters.
   85. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: November 21, 2007 at 02:04 AM (#2622089)
Russlan:

I understand that you despise Mota.

But you have GOT to understand that Johnny Estrada is the Terminator of Spite. He can't be bargained with. He can't be reasoned with. He doesn't feel pity or remorse. And he absolutely WILL NOT STOP until your clubhouse is POISONED.

It's just a matter of time.

Good luck!
   86. NTNgod Posted: November 21, 2007 at 02:08 AM (#2622091)
You better pray Mota isn't lights out in ST.

I don't think you're seeing any great Mota love here.

The only justification I can see for Melvin grabbing Mota instead of simply non-tendering Estrada (which had been rumored since the season ended, so I'm sure the other teams were certainly aware of it) is that the Romero contract has set the veteran FA reliever market at about $4m, from what I've been reading. Even the agents of the Matt Herges of the world are looking for that much now, so taking a flyer on Mota at $3m is a "better value", as odd as that seems.

Still doesn't mean I'm really happy about seeing Mota in a Brewer uniform.
   87. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: November 21, 2007 at 02:09 AM (#2622092)
HW, please see 32. I've never disliked Mota personally. I have no answers to why he is so bad with the stuff he has but never have I had any personal animosity.

I must take your word about Estrada as you seem to feel very strongly about him.
   88. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: November 21, 2007 at 02:10 AM (#2622093)
The only justification I can see for Melvin grabbing Mota instead of simply non-tendering Estrada (which had been rumored since the season ended, so I'm sure the other teams were certainly aware of it) is that the Romero contract has set the veteran FA reliever market at about $4m, from what I've been reading.

I think lefty relievers like Romero are still at a premium over righy relievers.
   89. Amit Posted: November 21, 2007 at 02:11 AM (#2622095)
Again, a clubhouse with Delgado, Alou, Wright, Wagner, and Pedro is not going to be poisoned by Johnny Estrada.
   90. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: November 21, 2007 at 02:14 AM (#2622096)
Russlan:

I had a number of folks contact me after the season to explain the retention of Yost and Estrada was THE number one topic.

While I am disappointed that neither the manager nor any of the teammates were able to address this situation more forcefully I understand that these things can be beyond difficult for all involved.

Yost is still inept in his handling of the bullpen. But with "The Great Satan", as Estrada was named by one caller, out of the picture perhaps a leap forward will be experienced.
   91. NTNgod Posted: November 21, 2007 at 02:22 AM (#2622099)
Again, a clubhouse with Delgado, Alou, Wright, Wagner, and Pedro is not going to be poisoned by Johnny Estrada.


Wagner and Estrada seem likely to become allies in the clubhouse, actually. Somewhat similar, combative personalities.
   92. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: November 21, 2007 at 02:22 AM (#2622102)
So if it's possible to think about this from the point of view of the non-Mets team for one second, does this mean Francisco Cordero is going to be leaving the Brewers.?
   93. NTNgod Posted: November 21, 2007 at 02:24 AM (#2622107)
So if it's possible to think about this from the point of view of the non-Mets team for one second, does this mean Francisco Cordero is going to be leaving the Brewers.?


I don't think it has any connection to Cordero's situation. Mota isn't viewed as a closer candidate, just middle relief depth - they wanted to buttress the rest of the pen, even in the (unlikely) event Cordero returns.
   94. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: November 21, 2007 at 02:25 AM (#2622108)
Crispix:

Cordero wants oodles of cash. That isn't Melvin's style.

And really, for all the pretty 2007 stats Coco is as flawed as any other "closer". So yes, it is almost certain he signs elsewhere.
   95. AJMcCringleberry Posted: November 21, 2007 at 02:26 AM (#2622111)
No more Mota or Blow Duca! That can't be said enough.
   96. Los Angeles Waterloo of Black Hawk Posted: November 21, 2007 at 02:31 AM (#2622121)
Are there any concrete stories of Estrada's malfeasance that can be shared with us? He just sits around, hating people? Why does anyone talk to him beyond basic communication required to play the game? Of course, with a catcher, he's talking to your whole pitching staff, so that's a bigger problem than if it's some outfielder or even an infielder ...
   97. Amit Posted: November 21, 2007 at 02:38 AM (#2622132)
No more Mota or Blow Duca! That can't be said enough.


Correct. This is nothing short of a masterstroke.
   98. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: November 21, 2007 at 02:39 AM (#2622133)
BW:

My understanding is that he is always digging. Always after folks. Always joining in when a disagreement is brewing to stir things up further. Just pick, pick, pick. And he is more than willing to mix it up. So if you want to throw down Estrada is right there. And by all accounts he fights dirty.

I believe the AZ folks could provide further info from Estrada's tenure in Phoenix.
   99. NTNgod Posted: November 21, 2007 at 02:40 AM (#2622135)
(I started a new thread for this)

Satan Speaks! :P MIL J-S blog:
Catcher Johnny Estrada, traded by the Brewers today to the New York Mets for reliever Guillermo Mota, admitted he didn't see eye-to-eye with pitching coach Mike Maddux all the time throughout the 2007 season.

But, when reached at home tonight, Estrada took issue with accusations and/or insinuations that he didn't work well with the pitching staff and was a negative influence.

"I heard they wished I worked better with the pitching staff," said Estrada, who will be playing for his fourth team in four years. "That (ticks) me off. I think sometimes, as a general manager or an owner, or even a manager, you don't have the pulse of the team. (General manager Doug Melvin) is not in the clubhouse.
...
"I didn't see this coming until I heard last week they were shopping me around. I don't want to point fingers. I'm not going down that road yet. The way I look at it, it's a great opportunity to go to New York, a great team that's all about winning."
...
Estrada and teammate Tony Graffanino were involved in a dugout altercation with manager Ned Yost in early August - ironically, in a game against the Mets - but that was not believed to be a factor in the trade.

"I don't really want to get into all of that," said Melvin. "It doesn't do any good to talk about negatives. We're just looking for more of an energy level and a catcher who works well with pitchers."
   100. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: November 21, 2007 at 02:42 AM (#2622137)
A strange game. The only winning move is not to play Johnny Estrada.

I can't believe this line hasn't gotten more attention.
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