I don't know. How many teams can say they drafted the guy who killed Batman?

Bane didn't kill Batman. He 'Broke the Batman's back."

Dude, he was just paralyzed.

EDIT: a coke for Tripon.

Nady shouldn't really be on that list. He had one at-bat in the big leagues, then spent the next three years in the minors. Why did the Padres do that? Was it in his contract he had to be in the big leagues?

I came on here to do a Batman joke and found three others already. (for the record, I don't know which was the least developed villain, Bane or Doomsday---Bane eventually became something on par with late 90's Venom)

Yeah, but both Bane and Venom's background today are really developed compared to their introduction in the 90s.

Looking back on Jim Abbott's collegiate career, it was far from dominating. Why was he rushed to the big leagues. Its not like the Angels were hurting for pitching in those days. It turned out okay, but it seems curious in retrospect. Was it because he did so well in the Olympics?

GEEKS

GEEKS

you say that as if it's a bad thing.

Looking back on Jim Abbott's collegiate career, it was far from dominating. Why was he rushed to the big leagues. Its not like the Angels were hurting for pitching in those days. It turned out okay, but it seems curious in retrospect. Was it because he did so well in the Olympics?

I can't answer definitively, but I do think the Olympics and the marketting had something to do with it. Abbott was a folk hero at the time and everyone wanted to see him succeed.

Kind of unrelated, but I'm not sure where else to ask: what's a major league contract? What's the benefit for the player (in the context of a recently drafted minor-league player), what are the requirements of the team?

what's a major league contract? What's the benefit for the player (in the context of a recently drafted minor-league player), what are the requirements of the team?

Ordinarily, teams are not required to place a player on their 40-man roster until either four or five years after he is signed, then they have three more years in which the player can be optioned to the minors. When a team signs a player to a major-league contract, however, he goes on the 40-man roster immediately. The benefit for the player is that he's under team control for a shorter period of time. The team would do it only when they think the player will get through the minors in three or fewer years.

-- MWE

puck im pretty sure it means they are on the 40 man roster right away, and make mlb pay in the minors

Thanks, guys. I assume they still need to meet ML service time requirements for arb and "regular" FA eligibility.

Nats hope Strasburg isn’t this year’s Bane

He better not be, since we have testing now...

Bane would get suspended for 'roids, so I think it would be wiser to draft somebody else.

THE DA beat me to it.

GEEKS

you say that as if it's a bad thing.

I would debate you on this, but I have to watch season 2.5 of Battlestar Galactica again.

The team would do it only when they think the player will get through the minors in three or fewer years.

There is a fourth option year for players with five (?) or fewer years of professional experience.

Does anyone believe there should be more college players who go directly to the majors?

In basketball and football, there are always guys who you KNOW will be good players right away, that even if they don't dominate, they obviously can hold their own. I'm thinking of guys like Shaq and Christian Laettner; Shaq was raw but his physical skills were unprecedented and he got by on that while learning the game, whereas Laettner was a polished player who never did reach superstar status, but was capable of contributing right away. In football, quarterbacks take a long time to get ready to play in the NFL, but you have running backs who aren't even that heralded, 3rd/4th-round picks who can come in right away and play; offensive linemen who dominate from the get-go.

It seems to me that the caliber of play in college must be higher than it was 25 years ago, but fewer guys make the jump straight to the majors. You had Winfield, Bob Horner, Pete Incaviglia... John Olerud played right away.

Frank Thomas -- isn't it obvious, in retrospect, that he must have been among the best hitters in the world before he signed a contract?

I know there is an adjustment with the aluminum bats, and I'm sure that the arbitration clock has a lot to do with it.

Does anyone believe there should be more college players who go directly to the majors?

I think that the teams should be willing to take a chance. The Cardinals have Brett Wallace who they drafted last year and it seems as if he probably could have gone straight to the majors(at least offensively) and then to watch him struggle in triple A, which will be used by people as an argument that they just aren't ready even out of college.

It's possible that the competition level of the majors is that big of a gap that college ball just doesn't prepare you for it. I guess I think it would be easier for a pitcher to immediately contribute than a hitter.

I would debate you on this, but I have to watch season 2.5 of Battlestar Galactica again.
I'm trying to get my Dr Who fix right now, but I'm still wrestling over the moral/ethical implications of watching shows on todou.com/google video (low quality slow speed and japanese subtitles but I'm getting caught up :) ) for now I guess I'll trade my morals ethics, with the knowledge that I plan on buying every season sometime during the summer.

Washington fans simply don't want Strasburg to be another Pete Broberg. (Of course, even if Broberg had panned out, his best days would have come in Arlington, Texas. Curse you, Bob Short.)

Just to get it out of the way, Eddie was a pretty nice guy when I met him.

Does anyone believe there should be more college players who go directly to the majors?

I think maybe if colleges used wood bats, you might see it more, but it seems the transition from aluminum to wood is one that takes some time for a lot of guys.

I think you will start to see college relievers go straight to the big leagues though.

Does anyone believe there should be more college players who go directly to the majors?

In basketball and football, there are always guys who you KNOW will be good players right away, that even if they don't dominate, they obviously can hold their own. I'm thinking of guys like Shaq and Christian Laettner; Shaq was raw but his physical skills were unprecedented and he got by on that while learning the game, whereas Laettner was a polished player who never did reach superstar status, but was capable of contributing right away. In football, quarterbacks take a long time to get ready to play in the NFL, but you have running backs who aren't even that heralded, 3rd/4th-round picks who can come in right away and play; offensive linemen who dominate from the get-go.

I don't know, I think players can get alot further on pure athleticism in football and basketball than baseball. Not that skill isn't important in those sports as well, more like athleticism is less important in baseball.

I'm trying to get my Dr Who fix right now, but I'm still wrestling over the moral/ethical implications of watching shows on todou.com/google video (low quality slow speed and japanese subtitles but I'm getting caught up :) ) for now I guess I'll trade my morals ethics, with the knowledge that I plan on buying every season sometime during the summer.

FWIW, if you subscribe to netflix you can stream Dr. Who legally. I watched a couple episodes not knowing anything about it, and it was alright.

I can't wait for next month for BSG to be out on blu-ray.

EDIT: I'm assuming you mean the newer version of Dr. Who.

I don't know, I think players can get alot further on pure athleticism in football and basketball than baseball. Not that skill isn't important in those sports as well, more like athleticism is less important in baseball.

I don't know, I think the skill level in both those sports is really high, and in football the complexity of offenses and defenses is pretty amazing these days. Of course, perhaps college (football at least) is a lot closer to the pros in that regard than it was 20 years ago.

Most of the hitters who have gone straight to the majors have been very successful immediately. Bob Horner won Rookie of the Year. Incaviglia hit 30 homers as a rookie. Olerud went 3-for-8 in a cup of coffee and then had a 117 OPS+ as a rookie the next year. Winfield didn't hit for a lot of power, but had a 106 OPS+.

I don't know, I think the skill level in both those sports is really high, and in football the complexity of offenses and defenses is pretty amazing these days. Of course, perhaps college (football at least) is a lot closer to the pros in that regard than it was 20 years ago.

The skill/athleticism ratio in baseball dwarfs that of football and basketball. Baseball is 80% skill/20% raw talent. Football is maybe 40%/60%. Basketball is 10%/80%. I'm including size/strength in athleticism.

There's a reason that they know who the basketball greats will be at age 14 or 15. You can dominate with raw athleticism.

Football requires more skill, basically b/c of the playbook, but that mostly applies to QBs and OL. RB/WR/LB/CB you can get by mostly on athletic talent.

Other than for QBs, there is no equivalent hurdle to learning to hit MLB breaking pitches for Football or Basketball.

Never met him, but Eddie was in at least one of the history classes whose bluebook tests & occasional essays I used to grade while I was a TA at Arizona State in the early '80s. My prof (who knew I was a baseball fan) told me he'd come back to school for ... some sort of degree, obviously, though I can't recall what it was. Seemed like a solid student (as opposed to future NBAer Byron Scott, whose tests read like he must've had some sort of learning disability).

Football requires more skill, basically b/c of the playbook, but that mostly applies to QBs and OL. RB/WR/LB/CB you can get by mostly on athletic talent.

I think you have this about half right. Offensive linemen have an easier adjustment from college to the pros than any position other than kicker. Among high picks, OL have the best return on investment in the sense that they are the safest to project. WRs have an incredibly high bust percentage, because the pro passing game is infinitely more complicated than college.

There are actually more starters in the NFL gleaned from the 6th-7th round and undrafted ranks than in the second round, so there's clearly a lot more than just dominating with athleticism.

As I noted, the success rate for college hitters who skip the minors seems to be unusually high albeit in a ridiculously small sample.

Basketball is 10%/80%.

What's the remaining 10 percent? Tattoos?

Half of it is mental.

Since I'm not aware of an all-purpose draft thread...

Kyle Gibson (Mizzou RHP) out 6 weeks with a stress fracture in his forearm. This may be a good thing, as there was talk he might need TJS.

Anyone know what Bane threw?

He might have put up numbers comparable to Strasburg in college, but that doesn't mean he was anything close to as good a prospect. He was listed at 5'9, 160 and never struck many out in the majors or minors, so I doubt he was any kind of a power pitcher. No surprise if a finesse pitcher, even one good enough to go 15-1 in college, had trouble adjusting to the pros.

As I suspected, the Neyer/James guide to pitchers says "he didn't throw hard enough to brake a pane of glass".

Anyone know what Bane threw?

Well after Bane broke Batman's back, he threw him into the garbage.

I asked my dad, a St. Paul native who was 20 when Bane debuted, if he remembered:

Not only do I remember him but I was at his debut...the old Met was packed and rocking. It was about as exciting as a non-playoff game could be at the time.

Hey guys, check this out. On Baseball Tonight just now, Buck Showalter spent about five minutes talking about all these things Brien Taylor wasn't able to do that prevented him from succeeding after being the Yankees' #1 pick during the Buck Showalter era. Apparently he didn't know how to hold runners at second base, he didn't know how to receive signs, and he didn't know how to back up home plate.

So...players aren't able to learn those things in instructional league?

And...um...maybe nobody told Showalter about the injury Taylor suffered in a fistfight which ended his career.

Showalter must have just thought one day in 1994 when he was managing the Yankees, "Hm. Wasn't that Taylor kid supposed to be banging on the door to the majors by now? Oh well, I guess he was just too raw. What a shame." And then not thought about him again until tonight? But then, how could he remember all these examples of stuff he noticed Taylor screwing up in spring training?

Just inexplicable.

Washington fans simply don't want Strasburg to be another Pete Broberg.

Fun fact: Pete Broberg is the all-time leader in major league innings pitched with an ERA+ of less than 80: 963 IP.

EDIT: With a 41-71 record, too, fourth-worst (since 1920) among pitchers with 110+ decisions (Jesse Jefferson, Hugh "Losing Pitcher" Mulcahy and Jason Johnson are the top three)...

Eddie was a pretty nice guy when I met him.

Reservoir Dogs FTW!

Does anyone believe there should be more college players who go directly to the majors?

I think you have to think about finances. A team as non-competitive as the Nats... unless they're getting an attendance and ratings boost from Strasburg (which they may well) - they're still gonna suck with him on the major league roster, or with him in the minors. And him being in the majors means that he's that much closer to his 6 years and free agency.

But I assume he won't sign until the August 15 deadline, then you don't pitch him this year, and next year keep him in the minors for at least a few days to get another year out of him in 2017, when the Nats may be relevant - I think that's pretty wise.

Poz mentioned this on his blog, but literally no pitcher taken 1st overall has ever really been a superstar. Check it out:



That just blows me away. I mean there are some good careers here, no doubt, but we are talking about first overall picks. This eleven pitchers combined for 3 all star game appearances.

I don't have a point at all, I just thought it was amazing.

I'd like to go back in time and try to learn what the four teams who passed on Dwight Gooden were thinking.

Probably the same thing that Billy Beane thinks, drafting HS pitchers is stoopid...

You mean the Billy Beane who drafted half a dozen HS pitchers in the first 10 rounds a few years ago after years of convincing everyone else to follow his lead and ignore them? Yeah, he must think drafting them is stoopid.

HS pitchers have become much better investments over the past 10-15 years.

for the record, I don't know which was the least developed villain, Bane or Doomsday

Doomsday, and it's not even close. Bane had his own graphic novel detailing his birth, childhood, and rise to power before "Knightfall" even began. "Knightfall" was then full of him planning and plotting before he personally confronted Batman. Doomsday was literally dropped into the story as a mute, non-communicative killing machine, and his initial appearance was simply one super-powered battle after another.

Poz mentioned this on his blog, but literally no pitcher taken 1st overall has ever really been a superstar.

Sample size. I mean, there have been 8,236 pitchers (more or less) in MLB history, and maybe one percent of them could be called "superstars". The fact that superstardom didn't happen to any of the eleven men above (even tho they're #1 picks) is not exactly a shock.

Pitching is hard. Guys get hurt, or they play for bad teams, or they suffer bad luck, or they're merely in the 95th percentile instead of the 99th. Tough standard.

Sample size. I mean, there have been 8,236 pitchers (more or less) in MLB history, and maybe one percent of them could be called "superstars".

Not to turn this into a discussion of semantics, but I don't think "Hall of Fame pitcher" is synonymous with "superstar". At any rate, no pitcher on that list would be in the top 15 pitchers playing the game today, which is surprising.

Washington fans simply don't want Strasburg to be another Pete Broberg.

Fun fact: Pete Broberg is the all-time leader in major league innings pitched with an ERA+ of less than 80: 963 IP.

and this guy, who went directly to the Indians from Stanford the year before, ain't much better

(in fact his winning %age is ever worser than Broberg's)

I can't find college stats for either guy, so I dunno what the brass saw in either of them

I distinctly remember that the Indians front office was hyping Dunning to no end

Sample size.

Obviously. But a sample of number one overall picks is not the same thing as some random sample out of every pitcher ever.