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1. Jim WisinskiThat's not why the runner would go -- he's keying on the lifting of the front foot and assuming the pitcher is going to the plate.
On the other hand, it has a (small) place in letting the defense see if a play is on without wasting a pitch. It's not significantly worse than a fake throw to 3b or 2b so what's the harm in leaving it alone? It seems like change for change sake, which is usually not smart. I say leave it alone.
I think the theory is that you catch guys who were planning to run on the first move to the plate. Since faking a move to the plate or first is a balk but faking a move to third is not, this is one way to fool clueless, unwary, downright stupid baserunners. Like Manny Alexander.
Edit: #### me, Greg Maddux is a faster poster.
James Shields tries to pick runners off third fairly frequently. Pretty sure the Rays lost 1-0 last year in a game in NYS when Shields threw wildly to third trying to pick off Cano, scoring the only run of the game.
Nice potential handle for somebody there.
As for the rule change itself: anything that results in the pitcher delivering the ball to home plate sooner is OK with me.
Same here.
I'd rather MLB take serious looks at the things that are genuinely slowing down the game (stepping out, fiddling on the mound between pitches). Elmininating something that costs almost no time while occasionally resulting in a play on the bases does not seem like a good start.
According to the CBA, all on-field rule changes need the players approval. I think they would care because they're the ones who actually play the games and are best suited to judge how rule changes may alter the games.
Seems to be May 16, 2000.
But, I can't remember specifically at the moment.
I don't know about Play Index, but that season's pickoff totals by pitcher are on the team's page under Pitching+ - team baserunning & misc. Catcher's pickoffs are in the catcher section of advanced fielding.
The league totals by team can be found the same way on the league page.
And it still doesn't when he continues to do so in my nightmares.
Okay, here it is: http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/ATL/ATL200905160.shtml.
I asked myself and would ask others "How can this be legal?"
However, since it IS legal, why not work at it?
Worked for me a couple of times actually.
My favorite one was in 2003 in Allentown.
I come into the game and I think it was 9-6, bases loaded and 1 out, top of the 9th. I get a force out 4-6 GB (I think) and now it's 9-7, 1st and third and 2 out.
Pretty sure that the runner was Kevin Grijak at first. I was SLOW to the plate which made stealing on me rather easy, and the other team knew this (NJ Jackals). In my previous outing against them, I'd gone 3 innings (or 2 2/3) and I think they stole 4 or 5 bases on me. Now Grijak wasn't a fast guy, but he was a wily vet and could get around the bases OK and I think he actually stole off of me the time before too.
BTW, the stats on b-ref are wrong. I gave UP way many more stolen bases that year.
Anyway, I think the count was 0-1 on the next guy. I think it was Chris Rowan up.
I give the "bad" 53 move first to set it up, cuz I KNOW they're running
Followed it up with the "good" 53 move, runner took off, flipped it to the 2B who tagged him to end the game.
Wish I had the boxscore, but yes it does work....
....but it always felt illegal to me
And yeah, I did it TWICE IN A ROW. I had no shame and I think Harry might've disapproved.
Will we see more steals of home as a result?
I don't see why we would. Steals of home are generally done against lefties, or guys throwing from the windup. This is only allowed by righthanders throwing from the stretch (and has been said, is done more to hold the guy at first, rather than the man at home).
So will this change only be applicable to third? Will pitchers no longer be able to pivot and not throw to second base, or will that now be a balk as well?
I just don't get the reason why this is being done. It doesn't take a tremendous amount of time. It's commonplace enough that no baserunner should ever be fooled by it, but, as this thread shows, baserunners do get fooled by it enough to make it not a completely pointless exercise (and when they do, it can lead to rundowns and/or plays at the plate, both of which are worth the investment). I just don't get what is gained by prohibiting this play.
I'm so glad you found this, because I was convinced it had happened but I never found the box. I remembered it being twice in one inning; and it looks like it was. So crazy.
The fact that it very occasionally works is no reason to keep it.
This, a thousand times this.
The fake to third is a far cry from the torture of watching Nomar Garciaparra, Skip Schumaker, and Chris Truby step out to adjust their batting gloves after every pitch or enduring the pain that Betancourt inflicts.
I remember when my son first saw this move live. Everyone, naturally, yelled balk knowing that it wasn't a balk. It's not a balk?, he asked. No. Why is everyone yelling balk? It's just something you do. Why? Dunno, it's always been that way.
Are we trying to be ironic? Are we trying to rattle the pitcher? Are we mocking fans who don't know the rule and believe the move to be a balk?
Very strange tradition indeed. I wonder if there is an analogy in any other sport, where fans knowingly pretend to be ignorant of a rule.
Of course Tuesday night Daniel Bard actually DID balk making the move. It was arguably a bad call but if you're repeatedly making the move to pick off Mike Moustakas you deserve what you get.
When one of their own players performs a ballet move on the way down to the ice, the home team fans will often scream bloody murder for the other guy to get a penalty, instead of the "diving" call their player should get.
This is why they should keep it -- whenever any base runner gets fooled by this bozo move, the amusement factor is through the roof, even when it happens to your guy.
The people who want to get rid of it really don't seem to enjoy baseball. They enjoy some fictional game in their head and they are always trying to change things so that it meets their personal expectations.
Football and Basketball seem to be tweaking and twisting their rules every damn year. Baseball used to have the common sense to leave well enough alone. Now there may be some changes that would help the game, by speeding it up a bit, but most of that could be accomplished by enforcing the rules already on the books, not changing them.
Baseball is a wonderfully quirky game. They should keep it out of reach of the tinkerers.
As a lefthander, Mitch Williams could not have done this specific move.
(1) On its face, this rule change doesn't seem like it would speed the game up. Quite the contrary. Seems to me the most likely alternative to this play is a fake to third, reset, fake to first, etc. Potentially twice the time wasted. (Take that, rules committee!)
(2) This is what MLB is concerned about? I like the game the way it is, but if you're one of those tinkering types, it seems like there are plenty of other rules-related issues you could split hairs over before this one.
It "doesn't work" as well as it should because frankly, most RHP don't work at making it look like a decent move---therefore many runners sniff it out early. It SHOULD work more, if you really think about it.
I worked at it some and probably not enough, but think about it....If a RHP had a killer Andy Pettite move, why wouldn't it work? It's almost unfair, hence why it's sort of a sneaky way to get it done.
Looking back on it, had I had less shame when I was younger, I would've perfected and made a living out it. It's just SUCH an easy way to keep a runner at 1B at bay without any real risks (I mean, you don't have to even throw the ball, ya know?)
But as also pointed out, if they were serious about changing the pace of the game, this is a silly thing to go after. Follow the batter in batter box rules, follow the pitch time limit rules more. Etc. Go after stuff that is truly taking away from the experience of the game, at least with the fake throw move, you get the fans riled up if you are the visiting pitcher.
Faking to first is already a balk.
How would a Pettitte-like move to third work? No one has their third baseman hold the runner like a first baseman does, so it seems to me that developing a killer pickoff to third would be hard to do. That's a lot of moving parts for my liking.
I remember it so clearly because I thought, "That never works...Holy #### he got him!"
http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl/1989_649524/first-place-cubs-pick-off-expos-cardinals-loss-to.html
Not if you step off the rubber first. If faking to first was always a balk, then faking to third, wheeling around and NOT throwing to first would already be against the rules.
If they're going to change anything about the balk rules, then they should clean up the whole thing. If the thought process is that this move, which is clearly about deceiving the runner on first, is against the spirit of the rules, then why stop there? On the other hand, technical balks that don't have anything to do with deceiving anybody get called all the time. Does a pitcher really gain any advantage if his feet get tangled (or if he wiggles his hands a little) when he's just trying to step off the rubber? Why not just let a pitcher ask for time instead of making him do some silly dance steps?
Eliminating the balk rule would eliminate the stolen base. Nobody would steal in those conditions, at least not until teams start employing catchers who can't throw - which there will be a greater incentive to do, once stolen bases cease.
Everything about it stinks.
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