Wow. Go Reds!

Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com and MLB Network had the initial report of a deal being reached. ...

Citing sources, Heyman reported ... [Madson's] agent—Scott Boras

Lord Haw-Haw strikes again.

I guess we'll see how this pans out long-term, but Boras misfired on this one.

Not to say that Amaro didn't, rushing to a 4/50M for Papelbon.

EDIT: And I'll miss Madson. It was fun to watch him mature as a pitcher. He was easy to cheer for as he always gave it his all. And after years about hearing that he wasn't a CLOSER, he kinda shut up the yahoos last year with a 32 for 34 performance.

This makes an already stupid looking 2/15 deal for Nathan look even stupider.

I guess we'll see how this pans out long-term, but Boras misfired on this one.

How so? Was there a better deal that they turned down?

I'm assuming Madson has Jody Reed's agent?

Allegedly, the Phils had something like a 4/44M floated to Madson. Boras tried squeeze more, the Phils decided to make their offer to Papelbon.

At least that's the narrative in the local press. It rings true enough to me to give it credibility.

Nice deal for the Reds. And makes sense for Madson, if he doesn't see the long term dollars he wants, to go one year and then go back on the market. I imagine he'll sign a little earlier after this experience.

Nice deal for the Reds. And makes sense for Madson, if he doesn't see the long term dollars he wants, to go one year and then go back on the market. I imagine he'll sign a little earlier after this experience.

Although here's the obvious downside to Madson--if he doesn't have a good year, no one may be willing to give him anything more than a 1-2-year/bounce-back type deal. So there's a fair bit of risk there to me, especially because closer stats/performance can be a bit wonky. (For example, what if he simply doesn't get save opportunities? What if he has a few bad outings that torpedo his ERA even though the rest of the season he does well? What if his HR/9 rate balloons?)

Also, with the movement this off-season of a few closers being converted to starters, I can also see another downside for Madson: If (for example) Bard is reasonably successful as a starter, and Bailey/Melancon do well as closers/set-up men, would that lead some GMs to think "Hmmm... why am I paying top-dollar for a closer, when the Red Sox can go the (relatively) cheap route and get just as good a performance for a fraction of the cost?"

If there's any kind of downward drag on the closer market because GMs start correctly valuing the performance of a closer, Madson's screwed long-term and this off-season may have been his one big shot at the brass ring.

So yeah, I think Boras f-ed this up pretty well. I'd be pretty pissed if I were Madson.

Allegedly, the Phils had something like a 4/44M floated to Madson. Boras tried squeeze more, the Phils decided to make their offer to Papelbon.

At least that's the narrative in the local press. It rings true enough to me to give it credibility.

I remember the reports that he was on the verge of signing that deal, but I don't remember reading that he turned down that offer. I kind of assumed that the 4/44 numbers were floated by Boras in the first place. I guess we'll never know.

It gets even worse: Crasnick has it as a 1/$8.5 million deal:

Link

He should fire Boras.

This is a great deal for the Reds, BTW. There are a whole lot of teams that could use a guy like Madson on a 1/$8.5 million deal.

would that lead some GMs to think "Hmmm... why am I paying top-dollar for a closer, when the Red Sox can go the (relatively) cheap route and get just as good a performance for a fraction of the cost?"

If there's any kind of downward drag on the closer market because GMs start correctly valuing the performance of a closer

I'll believe it when I see it...

Gee, here's hoping Scott does as well with Prince Fielder.

Ha, ha

Gee, here's hoping Scott does as well with Prince Fielder.

Maybe he can sign a 50 game contract with Milwaukee, and test the FA market again on June 1?

He should fire Boras.

Boras's clients know the deal - he's a high-risk, high-reward agent. I'm certain his sales pitch to his elite players is that he'll get them top dollar - maybe not today, but eventually, if they're patient and trust him. Adrian Beltre had to wait a year before getting his big contract. I'd wait to judge Boras on Madson and Fielder until after next offseason.

Colonel

That is NOT the message Prince has heard. Cannot speak to what he was TOLD.

But everyone around Prince expects Fielder to get HUGE money. That it was PROMISED.

Also, with the movement this off-season of a few closers being converted to starters, I can also see another downside for Madson: If (for example) Bard is reasonably successful as a starter, and Bailey/Melancon do well as closers/set-up men, would that lead some GMs to think "Hmmm... why am I paying top-dollar for a closer, when the Red Sox can go the (relatively) cheap route and get just as good a performance for a fraction of the cost?"

I don't see how this would happen. Bailey and Melancon have already been closers and Bailey is most definitely a "proven closer". I think it would just reinforce the idea that young cheap players are good. Which everyone pretty much already knows.

Boras's clients know the deal - he's a high-risk, high-reward agent. I'm certain his sales pitch to his elite players is that he'll get them top dollar - maybe not today, but eventually, if they're patient and trust him. Adrian Beltre had to wait a year before getting his big contract. I'd wait to judge Boras on Madson and Fielder until after next offseason.

Wasn't Beltre's "big contract" less than the A's had offered the preceding year?

Boras's clients know the deal - he's a high-risk, high-reward agent. I'm certain his sales pitch to his elite players is that he'll get them top dollar - maybe not today, but eventually, if they're patient and trust him. Adrian Beltre had to wait a year before getting his big contract. I'd wait to judge Boras on Madson and Fielder until after next offseason.

I don't think the 'risk' is that high when all is said and done. Beltre had to wait because he was coming off a relatively poor year, right?

Wasn't Beltre's "big contract" less than the A's had offered the preceding year?

They offered him more than his current deal after the 2009 season?

They offered him more than his current deal after the 2009 season?

Not sure. I thought they had offered him a bigger deal than Texas, but not sure which year. Of course I'm going on recollection.

Maybe it was just the biggest offer of 2009, but less than the 2010 Texas deal.

Not sure. I thought they had offered him a bigger deal than Texas, but not sure which year. Of course I'm going on recollection.

Maybe it was just the biggest offer of 2009, but less than the 2010 Texas deal.

Maybe they out-bid the Rangers, but Beltre chose the Rangers. Maybe they had a multi-year offer after 2009, but I can't imagine it beat his 2010 Sox salary plus the Rangers deal. It doesn't seem like he is an example of a risky move by Boras gone bad.

If Google serves, Oakland offered Beltre 5 years, $64M, then withdrew the offer. If you combine the Boston and Texas deals, Beltre ended up getting 6 years, $88.5M, plus a 7th-year vesting option at $16M if he has 600 PAs in 2015 or 1200 PAs in 2014-15.

That is NOT the message Prince has heard. Cannot speak to what he was TOLD.

But everyone around Prince expects Fielder to get HUGE money. That it was PROMISED.

Fielder will get his money, though perhaps not this offseason. If the Dodgers weren't in disarray, Fielder would have long since signed with them for $150M+. If a bidder doesn't meet the asking price, I'm convinced Prince will take a one-year contract and get his mega-deal next offseason.

How come the Red Sox weren't in this?

How come the Red Sox weren't in this?

The Sox are already at the luxury tax limit - at least once the arbitration/extension cases get settled. The tax on any added salary would be about 30%, so if they offered Madson 1/10, it would actually be 1/13. That makes him a little less attractive.

The main issue, though, may be that the Sox don't have any more money to spend. It looks possible that ownership has given Cherington a spending cap that sits right at the luxury tax limit, and so he's out of money.

When someone asks you if you're a God you say "YES"

When you've got the drunkest sailor on the hook for a ridiculous contract, you close the deal.

"If there's any kind of downward drag on the closer market because GMs start correctly valuing the performance of a closer"


I'll believe it when I see it...

You're seeing it.

You're seeing it.

I'm not so sure. Papelbon signed a huge contract and I don't think Madson gets this deal without Lidge/Contreras getting hurt last year and leaving him to get 32 saves.

I like this for the Reds. It seems clear Jocketty wants to take a shot at the division with Pujols gone.

I'm not so sure. Papelbon signed a huge contract and I don't think Madson gets this deal without Lidge/Contreras getting hurt last year and leaving him to get 32 saves.

I pretty much agree. There were a ton of closers on the market this year which distorts the picture. Put it this way, there's no middle reliever in the world who would get a one-year $8.5m contract.

At that price, this would have been a perfect deal for the Angels. Of course, at that price, he's a perfect deal for just about anybody.

At that price, this would have been a perfect deal for the Angels. Of course, at that price, he's a perfect deal for just about anybody.

But I don't think the Angels would bump Walden from the closer "position" and presumably Madson/Boras wanted assurances that he will be the anointed closer, especially on a 1-year deal.

Pure genius.

But I don't think the Angels would bump Walden from the closer "position"

I really hope that wasn't the hang-up. But, it certainly sounds reasonable enough. At least from the Madson perspective that is.

Put it this way, there's no middle reliever in the world who would get a one-year $8.5m contract

Well Rafael Soriano did get 3 years and 35

Although I guess he was a closer before he signed that deal

Papelbon signed a huge contract

Not really. K-Rod got 3/$37 (with what would have been an easy vesting option to take it to 4/$50 if he hadn't gone nuts) in 2009 so 4/$50 is flat. Nathan was 4/$45 in 08; Rivera 2/30 in 11 and I think 4/$60 before that; Lidge 3/$36 in 09. That looks like a stagnant market to me.

there's no middle reliever in the world who would get a one-year $8.5m contract.

Sure, but "drag on the market" is not the same thing as "now valued the same as any good reliever." Good set up guys have broken the $5 M barrier though and that market is, I think, heading up while the closer market is stagnant so I think they are getting closer to each other.

Not really. K-Rod got 3/$37 (with what would have been an easy vesting option to take it to 4/$50 if he hadn't gone nuts) in 2009 so 4/$50 is flat. Nathan was 4/$45 in 08; Rivera 2/30 in 11 and I think 4/$60 before that; Lidge 3/$36 in 09. That looks like a stagnant market to me.

I am quibbling, but if you include K-Rod's vesting option you should include Papelbon's as well. So his deal is better than everyone's but Rivera's. But even calling it stagnant in an offseason awash with available closers doesn't seem to indicate a collective realization about the save stat.

K-Rod got 3/$37 (with what would have been an easy vesting option to take it to 4/$50 if he hadn't gone nuts) in 2009 so 4/$50 is flat. Nathan was 4/$45 in 08; Rivera 2/30 in 11 and I think 4/$60 before that; Lidge 3/$36 in 09. That looks like a stagnant market to me.

Also, Francisco Cordero got 4/46 before the '08 season.

Of course, at that price, he's a perfect deal for just about anybody.

It seems like a bargain next to the reported deal with the Phillies that never worked out before Papelbon. If I could visit an alternate world I'd be real interested in what Madson would have got had he put up the exact same numbers in 2011, but did it while mostly pitching the 8th inning.

This line from Boras is hysterical on so many fronts, it's hard to know where to begin:

"As many as eight major league teams have taken great risk in the closer role," Boras said. "The game has shown many times that teams need closers with the efficiency to (convert) 85 percent of their save opportunities and the durability to make 60 appearances. Numerous teams didn't follow those metrics as a criteria for a closer this offseason. They turned their back on the closer role."

Nice to see the Reds finally got rid of the $10 mil they were paying for a closer, so they could go out and pay 8.5 for a closer.

I kid.. Madson is a hell of a lot better than CoCo ever was. Madson/Marshall should give the Reds a nice back end of pen. HOpefully throw in some decent performance from the Masset/Bray/Ondrusel/LeCure/Arroyo and that's a nice bullpen for Dusty to mismanage.

These things happen gradually because all 32 GMs aren't going to figure this out simultaneously...getting burned on a long-term closer deal is a mistake that GMs are not likely repeat...no matter how much BS Boras spews