Someone call Rany, make sure he's ok.

Who survives longer, Moore, or Miyaya?

Oh dear

Regardless of this extension, he'll be canned long before 2014.

AO

Who survives longer, Moore, or Minaya?

Considering the greater availability of guns and fertilizer-based explosives in Missouri... I'll go with Omar...

I'm not seeing what Moore did to deserve this. They already had him under contract for next year. That wasn't enough for the time being?

Unreal.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the 2011 Royals will be a pretty good team, assuming Hosmer pans out. A core of Greinke-Butler-Gordon-Hosmer-Hochevar is nothing to sneeze at.

EDIT: And Soria. I really don't think this offseason's moves were indicative of anything more than an attempt to show the fans that the Royals would TRY and put something out there for the new ballpark. The farm is being pretty well protected and developed. It will begin pay off soon.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the 2011 Royals will be a pretty good team, assuming Hosmer pans out. A core of Greinke-Butler-Gordon-Hosmer-Hochevar is nothing to sneeze at.

And what does Moore have to do with Greinke?
Butler was drafted before Moore was GM
Gordon was drafted before Moore was GM and has yet to do anything of note at the MLB level,
Hochever has had one really good game at the MLB level, was a horrible overdraft at 1st overall
I've read that Hsomer's stock has fallen and scouts who have watched him in the minors are far less impressed with his tools than the scouts who watched him play in HS were.

I'm sure Glass likes Moore because:
1: He sticks to their budget and doesn't complain [to Glass] about it.
2; There has been the appearance of incremental improvement.

Personally I don't credit the "improvement" to Moore.
Sure he's managed to create a team that can avoid 100 losses, that's what Dave Littlefield could do.
Also winning in the 70s rather than the 60s seems 50% attributable to Greinke turning into an A+ stud.

Look at the 2009 Royals lineup, look at the farm, that 2011 team is going to go 75-87.

Moore can not evaluate major league players. He wasted $25M + prospects to acquire a bunch of replacement level talent (Bloomquist, HoRam, Farnsworth, Betancourt). As a GM, he's probably a pretty good Director of Minor League operations. Dumb move.

Since this is the Royals thread, what happened to Brian Bannister?

That's actually a pretty accurate rendition of David Glass.

And what does Moore have to do with Greinke?

He did sign him to a terrific extension and help him through his anxiety issues.

Butler was drafted before Moore was GM
Gordon was drafted before Moore was GM and has yet to do anything of note at the MLB level,
Hochever has had one really good game at the MLB level, was a horrible overdraft at 1st overall

Yes, Moore did inherit Butler and Gordon. I'm not patting him on the back for that, or for not being a moron and trading them for pennies on the dollar. However, it is important to recognize that they are good building blocks (Butler in particular.) Hochevar should still develop into at least a quality middle of the rotation starter.

I'm sure Glass likes Moore because:
1: He sticks to their budget and doesn't complain [to Glass] about it.

Newsflash: the Royals don't make that much money. They really can't go over budget (mind you, this is NOT an excuse for poor allocation of their existing resources.)

Sure he's managed to create a team that can avoid 100 losses, that's what Dave Littlefield could do.

That's a step in the right direction. Please note that I never approved of signing Moore to an extension now, but I do think Moore is doing a decent job at building a long-term winner.

EDIT: This reminds me a bit of the way BBTF responds to Brian Sabean. He didn't do a very good job with the Bonds Giants, but he HAS managed to rebuild his team in short order. For some reason, he still gets very little credit for this.

To a small degree, I understand this.
You don't want a GM feeling that he has to win THAT year and making shortsighted moves, see Bill Bavasi's last year with the Mariners.

But, why not just extend him one year or two at most and leave it at that?

Sabean gets little credit for this because he assembled one of the worst offenses known to man. The Giants are relying on Randy Winn, Edgar Renteria, and Bengie Molina to lead them to the post season.

Royals brass must really be impressed with this year's Wilmington Blue Rocks.

Look at the 2009 Royals lineup, look at the farm, that 2011 team is going to go 75-87.

I'll take the under in a heartbeat.

The Giants are relying on Randy Winn, Edgar Renteria, and Bengie Molina to lead them to the post season.

I think it is far more accurate to say that the Giants are relying on Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain, and (gasp) Barry Zito to lead them to the post season. They might get there in spite of Randy Winn, Edgar Renteria, and the rest of that dreadful offense.

but I do think Moore is doing a decent job at building a long-term winner.

Except he signed Mike Jacobs, Kyle Farnsworth, and traded for Betancourt. They still have Ka'aihue at AAA, when he should have gotten a shot this season.

If he can't evaluate major league talent like snapper said in 10 (which I think clearly he hasn't shown yet), it's hard to see how the major league club is going to improve.

I tried to post this when it came out but somehow it failed. :(

Sure he's managed to create a team that can avoid 100 losses, that's what Dave Littlefield could do.

You sure about that? Because, they could easily lose 100 this season.

Except he signed Mike Jacobs, Kyle Farnsworth, and traded for Betancourt. They still have Ka'aihue at AAA, when he should have gotten a shot this season.

Yes, he's shown absolutely no ability to evaluate major league talent. He obviously doesn't understand on base percentage, he doesn't understand any fielding type metrics or even just fielding in general, and he has no clue what the term fungible arm means. What a waste.

he doesn't understand any fielding type metrics or even just fielding in general

I may be misremembering, but I think one of Rany or Poz said not only doesn't he understand them, he's said he doesn't have any interesting in learning or understanding them.

Except he signed Mike Jacobs, Kyle Farnsworth, and traded for Betancourt. They still have Ka'aihue at AAA, when he should have gotten a shot this season.

Again, I think the motivating factor behind the Crisp/Jacobs/Farnsworth moves was to give the impression the Royals were making good on trying to compete in their renovated ballpark. Those players are name brand players, and they cost little in the way of the farm system. The Royals actually had a little bit of buzz this spring. That sort of thing counts. Particularly when it comes at very little cost to the future of the club.

I do think Moore can evaluate big league talent, btw. Moore is responsible for Greinke's extension, Bannister, Callaspo, Meche, and Soria. He's not a fan of rake and take or sabermetric orthodoxy, but there are plenty of ways to skin a cat. The Royals ARE getting incrementally better, and while I can understand that a real, consistent winning team can't come soon enough to the long-suffering fans of Kansas City, Moore is hardly Bavasi, Duquette, or Littlefield.

P.S. Did you know Bruce Chen is still in the Majors (sorta)?

Newsflash: the Royals don't make that much money. They really can't go over budget (mind you, this is NOT an excuse for poor allocation of their existing resources.)

Since 2000, Royals’ ticket sales have declined 18%, while the team valuation has increased from $96 million to $282 million (Vardi, 2007). The Royals’ revenue sharing proceeds have doubled since 2002, while their payroll has increased only 6% annually.

Sample year 2005:
Royals' Payroll: $37 million
Cut of revenue sharing: $64 million

Forbes Magazine from May 2007:
"While the Royals have lost 100 games in four of the past five seasons, Glass himself has been winning big. His team, which he bought for $96 million in 2000, now is worth $282 million, based on FORBES' annual ranking of MLB team valuations. This rise, an average of 17% a year, came despite an 18% decline in Royals ticket sales since Glass arrived, to 1.4 million last year (even as sales leaguewide are up 4.5% to 76 million in the same period).
...The system under the last agreement all but penalized small-market teams that became winners and raked in higher revenue. For every extra dollar they managed to take in at the stadium, they got 48 cents less in revenue-sharing handouts. Thus in some instances it may have been more profitable to settle for lower revenue to boost the cost-free cash transfer from winning teams.
...Glass also has hit up taxpayers to pay for a stadium overhaul. Last year in Jackson County, Mo. he partnered with the Kansas City Chiefs of the National Football League to spend $1.4 million on a "Save Our Stadiums" campaign, persuading voters to approve a sales tax hike of 3/ 8 of a penny for the next 25 years to help pay for a $250 million stadium face-lift. The upgrade will translate into significant new revenue for the Royals from premium seating and the like."

Yeah, here we go:

The culmination of this attitude was, as has been widely reported, Moore’s frank acknowledgment during his interview that “The defensive statistics – I still really don’t understand how some of those statistics are evaluated, I really don’t. When you watch baseball games every single day, it’s very apparent who can play defensively and who can’t.”

from: Rany.

the impression the Royals were making good on trying to compete

Maybe so, I don't see how it's very little cost to the future of the club when the Royals are on a small budget. That money was pissed away instead of further investment in the farm.

Again, I think the motivating factor behind the Crisp/Jacobs/Farnsworth moves was to give the impression the Royals were making good on trying to compete in their renovated ballpark. Those players are name brand players

So what's the excuse for Bloomquist, Betancourt and HoRam? Nobody knows who the F*** they are.
I said this in another thread, but Moore wasted enough money on those three and the Farns (~$25M), to outbid the A's for Miguel Inoa, AND sign the most expensive international free agent each of the next 4 years.

BBTFers are especially harsh on overpaying replacement players b/c it shows a GM who knows less about baseball than we do. We know we can't scout or evaluate prospects like the pros, but we can do at least a middle of the road job of evaluating established major leaguers. If you can't hold your own with us on that, you are useless as a GM.

He works for the rich and keeps the Royals poor.
Dayton Moore.

Dayton, yer doing a helluva job.

The Giants are relying on Randy Winn, Edgar Renteria, and Bengie Molina to lead them to the post season.

I think it is far more accurate to say that the Giants are relying on Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain, and (gasp) Barry Zito to lead them to the post season. They might get there in spite of Randy Winn, Edgar Renteria, and the rest of that dreadful offense.

Pablo Sandoval says, "WTF are you talking about?"

That picture is now my laptop's screensaver.

Jesus H. Christ, you're a sick b*stard.

He works for the rich and keeps the Royals poor.
Dayton Moore.

The hero of KC, the man they call Day(ton).

is that a line of cocaine in between Billy and GMDM?

Again, I think the motivating factor behind the Crisp/Jacobs/Farnsworth moves was to give the impression the Royals were making good on trying to compete in their renovated ballpark. Those players are name brand players

Are Crisp, Jacobs, and Farnsworth REALLY name brand players?

Wow, what the hell happened to Juan Cruz? His K/9 has fallen from 12.4 last year to 6.8 this year. I know he moved from the NL to the AL, but jeez.

So, Greinke in 2010 will have a WHIP of 0.43, 339 K, ERA of 1.05 and go 4-17.

So, Greinke in 2010 will have a WHIP of 0.43, 339 K, ERA of 1.05 and go 4-17.

Only if he throws a no-hitter, and 3 one-hitters. Although I wouldn't put it past the Royals to lose a Greinke one-hitter.

Sadomasochists, surely.

Are Crisp, Jacobs, and Farnsworth REALLY name brand players?

I think Coco Crisp is at least a registered trademark.

Crisp when healthy is a good starting CF.

Jacobs and Farnsworth? Not so much.

Crisp when healthy is a good starting CF.

Jacobs and Farnsworth? Not so much.

Agreed. There's no way I'd make Jacobs or Farnsworth my starting CF.

DB

I think he's a big fat idiot.

I tried to post this when it came out but somehow it failed. :(

David Glass would like to sign you to a four year contract extension.

He's a big fat idiot that gets paid to run a baseball team. What do you do for a living?

Gripe about big fat idiots that get paid to run baseball teams. And poorly. The running teams poorly, that is. Although maybe the griping is poor too. Who can tell?

Of course Dayton Moore doesn't look big, or fat.

Wow, he looks so douchey -- although with a name like Dayton, I guess that's what I should have expected.

Pablo Sandoval says, "WTF are you talking about?"

Well Pablo, I am talking about that wonderful supporting cast you have. You know, the one that is 25th in the majors in runs scored, 29th in home runs, and 30th in OBP. The supporting cast that Brian Sabean put together. That's WTF I am talking about.

Don't diss Kung Fu Panda!

Don't diss Kung Fu Panda!

Is he the best hitter the Giants have developed since?
What's funny is I read in BA that the reason they didn't rank him higher among Giants' prospects was because the Giants org didn't like him AT ALL- the only reason BA ranked him at all was because other teams' scouts liked him...

IF true, that's pretty funny, kind of like when DL got Bay, but really wanted Nady...

At the risk of annoying HPYSK, the more I look the more the Dayton Moore Royals look like DL's Pirates to me.

"Of course Dayton Moore doesn't look big, or fat."

Kind of looks like Peter Gammons, come to think of it.

"While the Royals have lost 100 games in four of the past five seasons, Glass himself has been winning big. His team, which he bought for $96 million in 2000, now is worth $282 million, based on FORBES' annual ranking of MLB team valuations. This rise, an average of 17% a year, came despite an 18% decline in Royals ticket sales since Glass arrived, to 1.4 million last year (even as sales leaguewide are up 4.5% to 76 million in the same period).

Since the team cannot be sold at a profit, Glass hasn't won anything.

EDIT: This reminds me a bit of the way BBTF responds to Brian Sabean. He didn't do a very good job with the Bonds Giants, but he HAS managed to rebuild his team in short order. For some reason, he still gets very little credit for this.

Well, is 5 years short order? The fallacy was that he "could not rebuild the team while Bonds was on the payroll". He hit the Jackpot on Lincecum, developed Cain and Sanchez, and totally overpaid for Zito. Sandoval fell into his lap, and turned out to be a double freak - not only could he square up hit anything near the strike zone, when he started getting nothing near the zone, he adjusted and took some pitches.

He's not the worst GM in the universe, but I don't think he's going to lead the Giants to a championship.

He's not the worst GM in the universe, but I don't think he's going to lead the Giants to a championship.

It's funny though. Some people act as if it's a requirement to be the worst before your bosses should look to replace you.

Since the team cannot be sold at a profit, Glass hasn't won anything.

There is no evidence that there is such an arrangement that Glass cannot profit, and those that have asserted there is such an arrangement have suggested it has long expired, or was only applicable if the new owner moved the ballclub. The fact Glass is investing any money into the club is evidence he has no such arangement.

Are Crisp, Jacobs, and Farnsworth REALLY name brand players?

Crisp played for Boston, which means that he was on tv a lot and people probably know the name. Farnsworth throws really hard, and Jacobs hit 40 HRs. For the casual fan, that makes them known players. Jacobs is probably the best example, every time the Royals were written about this offseason, I'm sure adding "Mike Jacobs, who hit 40 HRs" was good PR.

Although I wouldn't put it past the Royals to lose a Greinke one-hitter.

One-hitter? ####, the Royals will lose a Greinke no-hitter.

He hit the Jackpot on Lincecum, developed Cain and Sanchez, and totally overpaid for Zito. Sandoval fell into his lap

So, Sabean had a hand in acquiring three really good pitchers, and got lucky on a good hitter. Hate to say it, but every GM that wins gets lucky now and again with players. It's part of the game. You also forgot to mention how Sabean has totally restocked the farm system to probably one of the top 5, and he made some decent trades this season. They aren't anything great, but getting Freddy Sanchez and Garko for not much is an improvement for that team. I'm not sure I'd make them the favorite, but if they make the playoffs they'll be tough just because of Lincecum of Cain.

I'm sure adding "Mike Jacobs, who hit 40 HRs" was good PR.

Considering his career-high in homers is 32, it'd be great PR.

So, Sabean had a hand in acquiring three really good pitchers, and got lucky on a good hitter. Hate to say it, but every GM that wins gets lucky now and again with players. It's part of the game. You also forgot to mention how Sabean has totally restocked the farm system to probably one of the top 5, and he made some decent trades this season.

Restocking the farm systems is HIS JOB.
Have you looked at the Giants lineup this year? last year?

Sabean would actually be considered a *Great* GM if he came in in 2006 to clean up the mess of a previous incompetant GM. But HE was the GM! It's his mess! He ignored player development, traded what little talent he developed to sign over the hill mediocritys to support the best player in the Universe. He scored big on Kent and Schmidt (and to some extent, Ellis Burks), and made a few ill-fated runs.

Giving Sabean credit for cleaning up his mess is like giving him credit for dumping Matt Morris on the Pirates (for Raj Davis)... when the MISTAKE was signing Morris for way too much in the first place!

They aren't anything great, but getting Freddy Sanchez and Garko for not much is an improvement for that team.

OK, Garko is a 1 WAR platoon 1B, and they traded one of their top 10 prospects for him. A *GOOD* GM would have 3 Garkos free with his breakfast cereal. Freddie Sanchez is not even healthy, although certainly an upgrade. Giants gave up a VERY highly regarded prospect for him (Alderson)... I know fans of a team overvalue their own prospects, and it's possible it's an old-school Sabean 'trade a we have inside info on'... but frankly, if the Giants lose Barnes and Alderson and don't make the playoffs ... those trades are pretty bad. I agree you have to reinforce success, but frankly, the only reason they had to make these trades is that they couldn't manage to find a 1B or 2B over replacement value. For more than 1 year.

I'm not sure I'd make them the favorite, but if they make the playoffs they'll be tough just because of Lincecum of Cain.

This IS true - they are built for the playoffs. They just have to score enough to make it there.

Garko is a 1 WAR platoon 1B, and they traded one of their top 10 prospects for him

Okay, I know this is really nitpicky, but I don't agree that Barnes was a top 10 prospect. For the record, neither did Sickels, whoever does the rankings at the McCovey Chronicles, or a bunch of other people whose lists I found. Andrew Baggarly, who I do like, did the rankings for BA and had Barnes at #9. So borderline top-10 at best. I'll agree that from a prospect-centric perspective Alderson for Sanchez was an overpay but in the big picture I think that will be a good move in the end.

I'll agree that from a prospect-centric perspective Alderson for Sanchez was an overpay but in the big picture I think that will be a good move in the end.

KLaw and other prospect people have said that Alderson has lost a few MPH off his pitches. He wasn't going to be ranked near as highly this year as last year.

Okay, I know this is really nitpicky, but I don't agree that Barnes was a top 10 prospect. For the record, neither did Sickels, whoever does the rankings at the McCovey Chronicles, or a bunch of other people whose lists I found.

Not in the Giants farm system. Maybe in the Indians.

Restocking the farm systems is HIS JOB.
Have you looked at the Giants lineup this year? last year?

Sure, but I also see those 72 wins and first place in the Wild Card standings. Wins count the same if they are by a run or ten runs. Yeah, their lineup isn't that good, but they're winning. Considering the GMs job is make sure his team wins, then I'd say he's doing a good job. Next year, the lineup will be better. They'll have Sanchez, they'll probably bring up Posey, and they could always add a guy. I'm not a huge Sabean fan, but he's turned that team around really quickly. I don't know what else you'd want.

I have to say, that Dayton Moore just looks like a baseball general manager, straight from central casting. The shades are just too perfect.

Giving Sabean credit for cleaning up his mess is like giving him credit for dumping Matt Morris on the Pirates (for Raj Davis)... when the MISTAKE was signing Morris for way too much in the first place!

But some GMs are incapable of recognizing and cleaning up their own messes. The fact that Sabean HAS been able to change the way he goes about being a GM has to count for something