Cards aren't always involved in notable moves near the trade deadline, but they sure make good ones when they are. Say what you want about DeRo, but his versatility, crap St. Louis have manning the infield positions he can play (sans Pujols), and what the Cards gave up, make this a steal.

Well, it sort of depends on who the ptbnl is, right?
Who do the Cards have in the minors who's worth getting?

I am so glad this means the end to the Joe Thurston era... I heartily endorse this move.

Joe Thurston? Wow, a blast from the past.
Once he was Joel Guzman-type untouchable.

Well, I was way off on whether or not DeRosa would get traded.

Gross.

Once he was Joel Guzman-type untouchable.

Was he? I remember Joe had a good call-up in '02 (462/429/538/967). He then had a job at second to lose in '03 - and lost it. Later, there were whispers about his attitude.
But I never recall him being an untouchable.

Weird. I recall Thurston as being an excellent prospect, close to untouchable, if not actually so. Maybe he was just getting hyped a ton by people I read after that good call-up. But he was never ranked higher than #5 in the org by BA.

Meh. Dodger fans wouldn't trade Joe Thurston straight up for Cliff Lee.

Justin T, maybe we should all stick to reading the classics... Chekhov, Dostoevsky, Pushkin...
Leave Bleeping Dodger Blue to the more sophisticated minds of the world...

Joe Thurston was a young guy who couldn't crack Jim Tracy's lineup due to his love of gritty vets.

Maybe he was just getting hyped a ton by people I read after that good call-up.

Must've been during the stretch when Dodgers prospects were being overhyped simply for being prospects of the Dodgers. It was kinda weird.

"Joe Thurston was a young guy who couldn't crack Jim Tracy's lineup due to his love of gritty vets."

And boy, does Tracy have egg on his face for that one now!

?

Must've been during the stretch when Dodgers prospects were being overhyped simply for being prospects of the Dodgers. It was kinda weird.

Happens to many teams' prospects occasionally... and all the time to Red Sox, Yankees and Mets prospects

Must've been during the stretch when Dodgers prospects were being overhyped simply for being prospects of the Dodgers. It was kinda weird.

I call 1943-2003 something more than a "stretch".

Howie Menckel, in 2002, Thurston's main competition for the 2nd base job was Mark Grudzielanek.

Joe Thurston might have sucked if he he saw playing time, but Grudzielanek was no great shakes himself that year, posting a 88 OPS+.

I'm just saying that Jim Tracy loves his vets to the point that he'll play a veteran over a younger player every time if he could, at least when he was with the Dodgers.

Who do the Cards have in the minors who's worth getting?

Brett Wallace but there's very little chance, if any, he is the PTBNL. Mozeliak would probably be fired. Other than that, nobody I'd be heartbroken at parting with. Some people are high on Daryl Jones, but he doesn't do a ton for me. Jaime Garcia is our best current pitching prospect (Shelby Miller may steal that crown).

I call 1943-2003 something more than a "stretch".

No, there was a run there when Dodgers prospects were worthy of the title.

I always though the Thurston hype came from his ridiculous season at Las Vegas in 2002. Plus his nickname was Joey Ballgame and people got all warm inside when they heard that.


I'm wondering who the PTBNL is going to be. Without knowing anything and just looking at the Cards prospect list I'm guessing PJ Walters. Any other guesses?

Thurston was a prospect with a reputation for putting forth maximum effort, having a great attitude, making the most of his limited skills, etc. He was basically handed the starting job before spring training - and showed up out of shape, and lost the job, and deservedly so. Insanely stupid on his part. Work hard enough to be in shape at the most important point in his life, and he would have been a starter, with a chance of keeping it until he was entrenched. (probably wouldn't have anyway, but it might have happened). Instead, he's been a guy scrambling for jobs.

(probably wouldn't have anyway, but it might have happened)

Bombing out in Vero most likely saved him the shame of bombing out in Chavez Ravine.

Better to fail with major league pay than be passable with minor league pay. Not to mention the whole pension thing.

Plus, he might have had a hot streak early in the season, and held the job all year long. Weirder things have happened, lesser players have managed that.

My money's on Daryl Jones as the PTBN. No chance Wallace is a part of this deal.

Oh, I agree with all of that.
But this was during the time when luck was in short supply for the Dodgers.
So, fate was against Thornton doing anything of value - which means fate had him, in the offseason of 02/03, asking for seconds at dinner.

There will still be plenty of opportunities for Thurston on a team with so many guys who can't hit lefties/period

and now Khalil Greene has 'relapsed', can we please cut our losses and DFA the sonofabitch? I appreciate that he's got problems, but if he can't cut it in June, how's he going to handle the pressure of a pennant race?

"You think this is abuse? You think this is abuse, you c0cksucker? You can't take this, how can you take the abuse you get on a sit?"

I'm wondering who the PTBNL is going to be. Without knowing anything and just looking at the Cards prospect list I'm guessing PJ Walters. Any other guesses?

Jaime Garcia is recovering from TJ surgery and Fernando Salas has an injury of some sort; the Indians could be waiting to see how those two play out before making a decision. I'd be an unhappy camper if it's Garcia, as he's probably the Cardinals' most talented pitcher, at least until Miller signs.

They've got a full assortment of tweener pitchers at AAA like Walters. They've got different strengths and weaknesses (Walters is the finesse guy who humiliated Alfonso Soriano), but value-wise they seem indistinguishable to me. I'd guess that's where the PTNBL comes from, and the Indians need some more time to sort out which one they like the most.

Alright, I'll bite. Am I the only one who thinks Cleveland got a good deal, even if the PTBLN is a cipher? They get 5 years of a really big arm for 3 months of a career .278/.347/.425 hitter who's not especially great defensively (though he doesn't really hurt a team wherever he plays, either). Sure, he's having a good year, and his ZiPS RoS is better, at .280/.356/.444, but that doesn't scream "impact" to me. If he was an above-average fielder and hit like that, I'd have an entirely different opinion.

On the other hand, while it's folly to rate relief "prospects" too highly, Perez has been striking out MLB hitters by the boatload. He's just 23, and has 71 K in 65.1 IP already. And I realize it can be misleading to pick-and-choose endpoints, he has 3 BB in his last 11.2 IP, after starting the season with 12 in his first 12 IP.

I think the move made sense for both teams... Cleveland seems committed to giving Valbuena a shot, even after Asdrubal returns, and they are an extreme longshot now anyway... with a dire need for relievers. The Cardinals situation has been well documented by other respondees, and I agree that DeRo is a good fit. I just think DeRosa is "a guy", and paying a great pitching arm for 3 months of someone like that is hardly a bargain.

I doubt the PTBNL is anyone of any note; it's certainly not a prospect in the league of Jones or Wallace and probably not even John Jay or Mitchell Boggs.

All of the standard caveats apply for a pitcher and specifically a relief pitcher, but if Perez ever sharpens his control a touch, he'll become Lidge 2.0. The Cardinals either don't believe that's a probability or are willing to gamble on that possibility on the off-chance that Derosa is a Type A/B free agent.

One question is whether the Cardinals decide to stop the Schumaker-at-2B experiment and shift him to third where his arm might be more useful and his range less of an albatross. I doubt it, though if they re-sign Derosa during the offseason, that may be a possibility.

If Towers isn't shopping Heath Bell, he should be fired.

PTBNL: Asam Ottovino?

Am I the only one who thinks Cleveland got a good deal, even if the PTBLN is a cipher? They get 5 years of a really big arm for 3 months of a career .278/.347/.425 hitter who's not especially great defensively (though he doesn't really hurt a team wherever he plays, either).

There were reportedly a number of teams interested in DeRosa, and I think the perception is that the Indians could have done even better if they had waited for a while.

The Indians sold low.

The Indians sold low.

Incorrect. The PTBNL is Albert Pujols.

Wedge would platoon him with Garko.

I seem to recall really liking Thurston as part of a possible deal for Carlos Beltran back in the day.

I say bad deal for Cleveland. Wasn't DeRosa a Type A FA? I would rather take the draft compensation unless that PTBNL is some good prospect.

I'm not really thrilled with this deal. Sorry but a 3month rental for a marginal upgrade at a cost of two potential prospects just doesn't thrill me. At the same time, it seems like Cleveland could have done better if there was a bidding war for this guy.

I'm not one of the guys who is against trading a prospect, but it just seemed to me that the slight upgrade that DeRosa is providing just isn't worth the cost. I know Harvey loves this guy and all, but the Cardinals aren't contenders with DeRosa or not, he's a bit piece and the teams fortunes rest in the three outfielders who currently aren't producing.

The Cardinals are dead last in the National League in OPS against LHP. That's with the best right-handed hitter in baseball. I don't want to look at what the other hitters have done, but it is obviously awful. DeRosa is a massive upgrade over whatever crap they've been trotting out there against LHP. He's a definite upgrade over their current starting 3b against RHP, the master of awful baserunning, Joe Thurston.

Wasn't DeRosa a Type A FA?

MLB Trade Rumors, with the help of that Tigers blogger, has DeRosa headed to Type B status. His wanderings around the diamond hurt his status in Elias's eyes. They really should hand that rating stuff over to FanGraphs or AROM.

We're through 71 games already?!

I say bad deal for Cleveland. Wasn't DeRosa a Type A FA? I would rather take the draft compensation unless that PTBNL is some good prospect.

Some of Shapiro's History:

Chuck Finley for PTBNL = Coco Crisp
Milton Bradley for Franklin Gutierez and PTBNL = Andrew Brown
CC Sabathia for Matt LaPorta and PTBNL = Michael Brantley

Andrew Brown was a classic TINSTAAPP but was a top prospect at the time. As much as I bang Shapiro for his Wedge blinders, when he gives the sign, telling everyone that the PTBNL is a significant prospect, he's not bs'ing. We maybe could have gotten a bit more, but I'm guessing that this trade can't be judged until we see who the Ptbnl is.

The Cardinals are dead last in the National League in OPS against LHP. That's with the best right-handed hitter in baseball. I don't want to look at what the other hitters have done, but it is obviously awful. DeRosa is a massive upgrade over whatever crap they've been trotting out there against LHP. He's a definite upgrade over their current starting 3b against RHP, the master of awful baserunning, Joe Thurston.

2009 OPS vs RHP & LHP, DeRosa and various Cards:

DeRosa 726/1070
Schumacher 816/558
Thurston 669/852
Ludwick 762/609
Ankiel 750/570
Rasmus 840/418 (!!)

I think this team could use him.

A couple of things with regards to the potential draft pick compensation:

1st, it's based on offering arb, which seems likely
2nd, the final tally depends on the signing team and what other FAs they sign (ie, even if he is a Type A, if the team that signs him signs another FA rated more highly by Elias, the pick they give to the Indians gets bumped down a round
3rd, it also depends on whether that signing team has one of the 15 best records in baseball. If not, the comp pick starts as a Seoond, and is then subject to whatever permutations I described above.
4th, teams with draft pick bonanzas don't seem to view at as an opportunity to select 3 first round talents, but rather tend to pick slightly more signable, less expensive (and less talented) players, so the actual value returned to the Indians isn't that of "two first rounders"
5th, the team would then need to pay the bonus for these draftees, and even if they took two 2nd round talents, that's still gonna cost you about ~$2 million in bonuses. Perez has a salary, but no bonus cost.
6th, given how poorly the Tribe has drafted over the last 10 years (something like only 20 players from the drafts from 97-06 have made an appearance in an MLB game, and the second best of those after CC Sabathia may be Garko) it's probably not a bad strategy to get a bird in the hand. Now, that was a different scouting director, but still the same GM.

I like Perez. Not only is he talented, but he's a MLB player, which is also something that this team needs. I'm hopeful (although I haven't seen anything to indicate this) that perhaps this will push our 1st round pick Alex White of UNC back to the rotation, instead of the Indians' current plan to bring him up as a power bullpen arm.

We're through 71 games already?!

As a Cubs fan, my reaction is "we're only through 71 games already?!"