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Friday, February 24, 2017

MLB views Las Vegas as ‘viable market,’ Rob Manfred says

So build that stadium, Oakland and St. Pete!

Major League Baseball’s softening stance on sports gambling may one day open the door to an untapped market long considered taboo: Las Vegas.

It’s all the rage lately, with the NHL’s 31st franchise set for a Sin City debut next season and the NFL on the brink of following suit. Might MLB join them? Commissioner Rob Manfred is at least open to the idea, a departure from baseball’s longstanding efforts to distance itself from the betting world.


“Las Vegas could be a viable market for us,” Manfred said during his Cactus League news conference Tuesday in Phoenix, via the Las Vegas Review-Journal. “I don’t think that the presence of legalized gambling in Las Vegas should necessarily disqualify that market as a potential major league city.”

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 24, 2017 at 11:51 AM | 89 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: athletics, expansion, las vegas, rays

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   1. Jacob Posted: February 24, 2017 at 12:01 PM (#5408079)
Commissioner Rob Manfred is at least open to the idea
Shocking.
   2. Ziggy's screen name Posted: February 24, 2017 at 12:09 PM (#5408087)
This doesn't sound very likely to me. Las Vegas isn't that big of a place, and the fact that they'll also get the Pahrump market doesn't help a lot.
   3. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 24, 2017 at 12:13 PM (#5408091)
Baseball is a very regional game, and there is zero regional market outside of Vegas, which is a pretty small market to begin with.
   4. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: February 24, 2017 at 12:37 PM (#5408120)
But maybe, just maybe, it can be used to blackmail some locality into buying their team a brand new stadium, so WINNER!
   5. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: February 24, 2017 at 12:54 PM (#5408137)
Baseball is a very regional game, and there is zero regional market outside of Vegas, which is a pretty small market to begin with.


Not just a small market, but also a relatively poor one (ranked 80th out of 280 MSAs by median household income, but ranked 29th by population). Most people there work relatively modest-paying service jobs in the hospitality industry. Its construction industry (which provides most of the relatively well-paying jobs) is subject to even greater boom/busts than other regions because of its heavy, heavy reliance on tourism. I don't know that someone who flies down to Vegas for a weekend is going to want to spend 3-4 hours to watch a baseball game.

It *might* make sense for the Raiders, who only need to fill the stadium 8 times a year (mostly on Sundays). I really don't think that there would be sufficient local demand to sustain a baseball team playing 81 games per year.
   6. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: February 24, 2017 at 01:06 PM (#5408151)
“Las Vegas could be a viable market for us,” Manfred said during his Cactus League news conference Tuesday in Phoenix
, "for MLB to use as an empty threat to extort even more money from the rubes in local government in our current markets," Commissioner Pace-of-Play continued.
   7. TDF, trained monkey Posted: February 24, 2017 at 01:08 PM (#5408153)
It *might* make sense for the Raiders, who only need to fill the stadium 8 times a year (mostly on Sundays). I really don't think that there would be sufficient local demand to sustain a baseball team playing 81 games per year.
When Charlotte was awarded an NFL team, my brother (who lives in Charleston, 210 miles away) would've bought season tickets if he didn't also have to buy a PSL (which made it more money than he was willing to spend). He figured if he couldn't go one or 2 weeks he could find someone else who would.

Likewise, I used to work with a guy who had Lions season tickets (120 miles away).
   8. Nasty Nate Posted: February 24, 2017 at 01:16 PM (#5408161)
I really don't think that there would be sufficient local demand to sustain a baseball team playing 81 games per year.
Plus, I would guess that a higher percentage of locals than in most cities would be working during game hours, and therefore couldn't watch/attend.
   9. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: February 24, 2017 at 01:53 PM (#5408191)
It *might* make sense for the Raiders, who only need to fill the stadium 8 times a year (mostly on Sundays).
I can see it making a lot of sense for the Raiders, if they can convince visitors to the city that an NFL game is a part of the standard Vegas circuit. The city averages ~3.6 million visitors a month, so there are plenty of marks in there to fill the 40K (or however many) seats beyond what you could fill with locals.

Filling a stadium with tourists hasn't worked out well for the Florida baseball teams, but trips to Florida are all about the beach and the weather. Trips to Vegas are about gambling, drinking, and absurd an overblown entertainment, which sounds like the NFL to me.
   10. Ron J Posted: February 24, 2017 at 01:59 PM (#5408198)
The argument I've heard is that a lot of tickets would be used as comps. IOW they don't need a high population base if they can get a percentage of tourists to make up the difference.

Of course there are one or two competing attractions and the idea of spending a few hours outside in a Las Vegas summer won't be appealing to a lot of people.

The PCL team draws a fairly consistent ~4800 per game but I'm not sure how much that tells us about how a major league team would draw.



   11. bads85 Posted: February 24, 2017 at 02:04 PM (#5408203)
The PCL team draws a fairly consistent ~4800 per game but I'm not sure how much that tells us about how a major league team would draw.


Especially since they play in a horrible stadium off the beaten path. Who knows how well they would draw in an accessible, retractable dome.
   12. BrianBrianson Posted: February 24, 2017 at 02:06 PM (#5408206)
Might feel different after the Golden Knights (ugh) crash and burn and crash and burn and crash and burn and crash and burn and crash and burn and crash and burn and crash and burn and crash and burn and crash and burn and crash and burn and crash and burn and crash and burn and crash and burn and crash and burn and crash and burn and crash and burn and crash and burn and crash and burn and crash and burn and crash and burn and crash and burn and crash and burn and crash and burn and crash and burn and crash and burn and crash and burn and crash and burn and crash and burn and crash and burn.
   13. The Yankee Clapper Posted: February 24, 2017 at 02:07 PM (#5408207)
A Las Vegas franchise might try to market to visiting team tourist fans as well as the locals, but I don't see that as coming close to making up for the relatively small population base & TV market. All the current teams have a better situation, and an expansion team looks to be a revenue-sharing drain, so, as others have noted, Manfred's comments are merely an effort to suggest teams have relocation options, and put a positive spin on the state of the game: "MLB for everyone? Sure, we'd consider that."
   14. Nasty Nate Posted: February 24, 2017 at 02:10 PM (#5408212)
I have been talking with friends about possibly going to Vegas next January. But, hypothetically, if there was an NFL or MLB team in the city, we would probably time the trip so as to go to a game (and bet on it, natch).
   15. PreservedFish Posted: February 24, 2017 at 02:11 PM (#5408213)
I love baseball, and I hate fruity Quebecois acrobats, but if I were in Vegas I'd rather see Cirque du Soleil than I would a baseball game. It's Vegas! It's what you do there.
   16. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 24, 2017 at 02:13 PM (#5408217)
I love baseball, and I hate fruity Quebecois acrobats, but if I were in Vegas I'd rather see Cirque du Soleil than I would a baseball game. It's Vegas! It's what you do there.

Ugh, couldn't disagree more. Went to Cirque immediately after losing several hundred dollars at balckjack. I enjoyed the blackjack more.
   17. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: February 24, 2017 at 02:15 PM (#5408221)
Of course there are one or two competing attractions and the idea of spending a few hours outside in a Las Vegas summer won't be appealing to a lot of people.


I would have to assume the relocation of a MLB team to Las Vegas would be contingent on having a ridiculously expensive air conditioned indoor stadium built (most likely at great taxpayer expense). There's absolutely no way that they could sell tickets to an outdoor stadium when it's >105 degrees.
   18. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: February 24, 2017 at 02:18 PM (#5408224)
I would eagerly go to a baseball game where there's even a 0.00001% chance of a player being mauled by a rare white tiger.
   19. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: February 24, 2017 at 02:18 PM (#5408225)
Ugh, couldn't disagree more. Went to Cirque immediately after losing several hundred dollars at balckjack. I enjoyed the blackjack more.


I've been to Vegas twice. The first time I bet $20 on black, it hit, and I cashed, retiring undefeated, and otherwise just walked around. This past November I got a dirt cheap rental car and drove out to Hoover Dam, then to some canyon northeast of the city to hike. I liked that a lot more.
   20. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 24, 2017 at 02:20 PM (#5408229)
I've been to Vegas twice. The first time I bet $20 on black, it hit, and I cashed, retiring undefeated, and otherwise just walked around. This past November I got a dirt cheap rental car and drove out to Hoover Dam, then to some canyon northeast of the city to hike. I liked that a lot more.

I've been to Vegas twice also, and will probably never go back. I enjoy gambling for a few hours, but not nearly enough to make a multi-day vacation out of it. My wife doesn't enjoy it, so I pretty much never gamble anymore. Everything else about Vegas bores me to tears.
   21. Khrushin it bro Posted: February 24, 2017 at 02:22 PM (#5408234)
I'd rather see Cirque du Soleil than I would a baseball game. It's Vegas! It's what you do there.


Did you mean a strip club?

If the NFL had a franchise there hosting the Super Bowl once every 5 or so years would probably pay for the whole shabang.
   22. PreservedFish Posted: February 24, 2017 at 02:24 PM (#5408236)
Yeah, Vegas is horrible. I've been a few times. Always kind of enjoyed the spectacle during the first day, got tired of it the next, and wanted to kill myself on the third day.
   23. DL from MN Posted: February 24, 2017 at 02:28 PM (#5408244)
then to some canyon northeast of the city to hike


Red Rock Canyon. Lots of fun. I also recommend Valley of Fire north of town. I don't recommend hiking in July but it's terrific in January.
   24. Nasty Nate Posted: February 24, 2017 at 02:29 PM (#5408245)
Three nights is about the max I would suggest for anyone visiting Vegas. Two nights if you don't gamble at all.
   25. theboyqueen Posted: February 24, 2017 at 02:34 PM (#5408247)
What is viable for football and viable for baseball are not really comparable. Football games could be played on television studios located on the moon and the teams would be perfectly fine (especially if NASA provided the studios).
   26. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 24, 2017 at 02:34 PM (#5408248)
The only people I know who really like going to Vegas are either (a) total douches, (b) not from the U.S. or (c) both.
   27. The Good Face Posted: February 24, 2017 at 02:36 PM (#5408251)
Three nights is about the max I would suggest for anyone visiting Vegas. Two nights if you don't gamble at all.


This. There is hardly ever a need for spending more than three nights in Vegas.
   28. PreservedFish Posted: February 24, 2017 at 02:41 PM (#5408257)
Speaking of high desert hiking. Not Vegas, but I was in Palm Springs a while ago and I took this amazing tram ride up to Mt Jacinto. It was 80ish on the bottom, and there were 2 feet of snow at the summit. I read that it's the country's record day hike for most elevation change. You have to start walking at like 3am in order to make it to the top by sunset, and you need to be at a pretty good altitude by noon or else you'll fry in the heat. I'm not sure if I'm man enough to do it or not, but I'd like to try.
   29. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 24, 2017 at 02:45 PM (#5408261)
This. There is hardly ever a need for spending more than three nights in Vegas.

But if you're flying from the East Coast, a 6+ hour flight each way for a 2-night stay makes no sense at all.
   30. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: February 24, 2017 at 02:47 PM (#5408262)
I spend most of the summer there every year, am a big a Mets fan, and yet I've never attended a 51s game. Vegas heat is unbearable. I'd go to a few games a year if they were air-conditioned. Likewise with an MLB club in Vegas.

The city itself is also a truly horrible place, unless you're a particular type of individual (which I am not). You people are not wrong. But it does offer some excellent dining options and is home to the only open-space batting cage that I know of. So there's that. Plus the surroundings are beautiful. Don't spend all your time on the strip.
   31. Lassus Posted: February 24, 2017 at 02:50 PM (#5408263)
Boy, a lot of you people really a have a hard time entertaining yourselves.
   32. The Good Face Posted: February 24, 2017 at 02:55 PM (#5408268)
This. There is hardly ever a need for spending more than three nights in Vegas.

But if you're flying from the East Coast, a 6+ hour flight each way for a 2-night stay makes no sense at all.


That's why I said three nights. That's how long I stay when I go to Vegas for exactly the reason you state. But I know several guys who'll go for 2, or even 1 night (from the East coast). I think they're nuts, but it works for them.
   33. QLE Posted: February 24, 2017 at 02:56 PM (#5408270)
I can see it making a lot of sense for the Raiders, if they can convince visitors to the city that an NFL game is a part of the standard Vegas circuit. The city averages ~3.6 million visitors a month, so there are plenty of marks in there to fill the 40K (or however many) seats beyond what you could fill with locals.


In addition, the Raiders still have a large fanbase in Southern California, and I can imagine many of them being devoted enough to travel long distances to attend eight games a year- it's how Green Bay keeps packed to the gills, after all. However, I don't see this as being remotely feasible for a baseball team- 81 games spread out all over the year and at varying days of the week and times of day is a far different thing from eight games played chiefly on Sunday afternoons in the fall, and even the most devoted fans aren't going to drive that far that often for a baseball game.
   34. Karl from NY Posted: February 24, 2017 at 03:10 PM (#5408295)
Yes, Vegas makes plenty of sense for the Raiders. They have bandwagoners all over the country that would easily use the Raiders as a reason to see Vegas and Vegas as a reason to see the Raiders.

It makes little or no sense for MLB, though. Like others have said, there's no regional or TV fanbase. The Raiders would import plenty and even an NFL expansion team probably would have enough national appeal, but a baseball expansion team couldn't do that.

It'll be interesting to see how the Vegas NHL team does. That seems like a pretty good match, a perfect event for the casinos and corps to buy tickets to give out as comps. There's quite a distance between 15k hockey tickets 40 times a year versus 30k baseball tickets 80 times, though.
   35. Ziggy's screen name Posted: February 24, 2017 at 03:16 PM (#5408301)
Went to Vegas with my wife, like, ten years ago. Hotels are cheap because they want you in the casino. We just used it as a base to explore the desert. Drove out to Death Valley. Watched a meteor shower in the desert. Almost stepped on a rattlesnake. It was great. Vegas itself, however, is truly horrible. And Reno is even worse (and for that one I did take a six hour flight for a two day trip). In fact, unless you're there for nature, just stay out of Nevada.
   36. Booey Posted: February 24, 2017 at 03:34 PM (#5408323)
Always kind of enjoyed the spectacle during the first day, got tired of it the next, and wanted to kill myself on the third day.

Three nights is about the max I would suggest for anyone visiting Vegas. Two nights if you don't gamble at all.

This. There is hardly ever a need for spending more than three nights in Vegas.


Yes to all. I've been to Vegas many times (unless Boise is your idea of an exciting weekend getaway, it's just about the only major city close enough to SLC for a weekend road trip), and yeah, a single weekend is plenty. It's sensory overload. I don't know how people can spend an entire week there at a time. All the walking, the heat, everything...it's just exhausting (and yes, for all the entertainment options, it does get boring surprisingly fast).
   37. PreservedFish Posted: February 24, 2017 at 03:37 PM (#5408325)
I am a big fan of US 50 through Nevada, the "Loneliest Road in America."
   38. GGC Posted: February 24, 2017 at 03:42 PM (#5408327)
Is Rita Rudner still there? I went to LV 14 or 15 summers ago and was amazed to see some performers who had fallen off my radar only to have their images plastered on billboards and taxicabs. The best part of the trip might've been the day we rented a car and drove out to the Grand Canyon.
   39. Graham & the 15-win "ARod Vortex of suck" Posted: February 24, 2017 at 03:48 PM (#5408336)
Baseball is a very regional game, and there is zero regional market outside of Vegas, which is a pretty small market to begin with.


I know next to nothing about hockey. Does the NHL operate this way as well? I can't imagine people escaping to the warm weather of Las Vegas during the winter and then spending 3 hours inside an ice rink.
   40. Ron J Posted: February 24, 2017 at 03:53 PM (#5408341)
#15 I'm a baseball fan of long standing and at most a recreational gambler. If I was in Vegas for a week I might take in a game. I'd spend most of my time in the casinos. Not much time playing. I can set a budget and walk away. Unlike at least 2/3 of people I talk to (who insist they're up a bit), I expect to lose whatever stake I've budgeted and have never felt any desire to chase the loss.
   41. The Good Face Posted: February 24, 2017 at 03:55 PM (#5408342)
I don't know how people can spend an entire week there at a time.


The only people who seem capable of that are either professional gamblers or old people who apparently have a bottomless capacity for cheap buffets, penny slots and magic shows.

Is Rita Rudner still there? I went to LV 14 or 15 summers ago and was amazed to see some performers who had fallen off my radar only to have their images plastered on billboards and taxicabs.


That's one of the unique appeals of Vegas for me. That moment of "Holy ####, X isn't dead at all, he/she's headlining at the Luxor!"
   42. Ron J Posted: February 24, 2017 at 04:00 PM (#5408348)
#22 Guess I'm wired differently. Never been to Vegas but I've been to Atlantic City (which is at best a cheap knockoff) and had plenty of fun.

Might be different now in Atlantic City because that's something I did with my father. But they're good memories so I don't think it would creep me out.
   43. GGC Posted: February 24, 2017 at 04:10 PM (#5408357)
That moment of "Holy ####, X isn't dead at all, he/she's headlining at the Luxor!"


That made me laugh. There was also some guy I never heard of who was the biggest thing in Vegas in '02 or '03. I think he was a crooner, which surprised me. By then, I think classic rock had already crowded that type of music out.
   44. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 24, 2017 at 04:14 PM (#5408366)
#22 Guess I'm wired differently. Never been to Vegas but I've been to Atlantic City (which is at best a cheap knockoff) and had plenty of fun.

Might be different now in Atlantic City because that's something I did with my father. But they're good memories so I don't think it would creep me out.


I can have a lot of fun going to AC or Mohegan Sun for an afternoon, and a meal, and one night. But that's pretty much it. Never going to spend a long weekend there. I'd like to go to Monte Carlo some time.

I've got no problem with gambling as entertainment. It's just Vegas that's a pretty awful place.
   45. GGC Posted: February 24, 2017 at 04:21 PM (#5408377)
I'm lucky that I rarely won while gambling. I might like it more; a dangerous taste, seeing how I live 15 minutes from Foxwoods (I once ran out the the corner gas station on a Sunday morning to get a paper and ran across a well dressed guy with a car that had NY plates. He was asking strangers for money. I figured he went on tilt that previous night/morning and didn't even have enough for gas to get back to the city.) At one point, I got interested in the parimutuels (T-breds, jai alai, etc..) but the more I read about the topic, the more confused I got. Blackjack seemed like too much work, slots too depressing. The tables that I liked were roulette and craps.
   46. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 24, 2017 at 04:36 PM (#5408394)
Blackjack seemed like too much work, slots too depressing. The tables that I liked were roulette and craps.

Blackjack gets boring fast. To play well you have to play like a robot.

Roulette I just don't see. And the odds are terrible. If there is a double zero, they're robbing you blind.

Craps is fun, and has the best odds (including the only fair bet in the casino, the back bet). If you play a low value table with 10X odds, and always bet max odd, you're giving away almost nothing to the house.

But the money goes really fast in craps.
   47. GGC Posted: February 24, 2017 at 04:38 PM (#5408396)
The odds are bad in roulette, I'll admit, but I wasn't trying to win money.
   48. Blastin Posted: February 24, 2017 at 04:42 PM (#5408400)
I'd like to go to Monte Carlo some time.


It is also fun for a small handful of hours and then it's boring. Pretty though. Very very pretty. I made it a day trip from elsewhere on the Med coast of France.

That said, I saw some people playing a 10,000 Euro buy in hand of poker.

I guess if I had that much money I'd be bored enough to throw it away too.

Whenever I gamble (every 5 years or so) I basically give myself x dollars to spend, if I ever win a hand that doubles it I leave, otherwise I play until it's gone and consider that to be how much it cost.

Vegas is the worst.
   49. The Good Face Posted: February 24, 2017 at 04:46 PM (#5408407)
Craps is fun, and has the best odds (including the only fair bet in the casino, the back bet). If you play a low value table with 10X odds, and always bet max odd, you're giving away almost nothing to the house.

But the money goes really fast in craps.


There is nothing more fun in the casino than a hot craps table. It's like a spontaneous party that can break out with no notice and end almost as quickly.

Blackjack gets boring fast. To play well you have to play like a robot.


I usually only enjoy blackjack if I get an entire table with nobody but me and my friends. Then you make it a social event, settle in for a few hours, get drunk and talk ####. Otherwise yeah, I agree with you.
   50. WSPanic Posted: February 24, 2017 at 04:50 PM (#5408413)
I love baseball, and I hate fruity Quebecois acrobats, but if I were in Vegas I'd rather see Cirque du Soleil than I would a baseball game. It's Vegas! It's what you do there.


This has my vote for team name.
   51. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 24, 2017 at 04:57 PM (#5408420)
Whenever I gamble (every 5 years or so) I basically give myself x dollars to spend, if I ever win a hand that doubles it I leave, otherwise I play until it's gone and consider that to be how much it cost.

What I like to do in that situation is take your original stake off the table. If you started with $100 and get up to $200, put $100 away (to guarantee you break even) and keep having fun. If I get up another $100, I'd bank that profit, and keep letting the $100 ride.

No need to cut off the fun while you're winning.
   52. Blastin Posted: February 24, 2017 at 04:59 PM (#5408423)
No need to cut off the fun while you're winning.


In 3.5 more years when I go some place, I will do this.
   53. Traderdave Posted: February 24, 2017 at 05:02 PM (#5408428)

There is nothing more fun in the casino than a hot craps table. It's like a spontaneous party that can break out with no notice and end almost as quickly.


That reminds me of my first trip to a casino. I expected that atmosphere: hootin & hollerin, toasting a win, high fives. You know, FUN.

Turned out to be a bunch of desperate chain smoking pensioners staring catatonically at slot machines.

   54. The Good Face Posted: February 24, 2017 at 05:06 PM (#5408433)
That reminds me of my first trip to a casino. I expected that atmosphere: hootin & hollerin, toasting a win, high fives. You know, FUN.


I probably should have put a disclaimer or something in there that hot crap tables are not the norm. But that's partly what makes it so special when your table DOES get hot.

Turned out to be a bunch of desperate chain smoking pensioners staring catatonically at slot machines.


Somebody's been to Atlantic City!
   55. Traderdave Posted: February 24, 2017 at 05:09 PM (#5408437)

Somebody's been to Atlantic City!


Never, but I've been to Tahoe, Vegas, Reno and a couple of riverboats in the Midwest. Depressing as hell. I literally only go when I have to (business gathering, a relatives's 80th b-day, etc)

   56. Booey Posted: February 24, 2017 at 05:20 PM (#5408457)
Turned out to be a bunch of desperate chain smoking pensioners staring catatonically at slot machines.


This describes Wendover (or Bendover, as it's more aptly called) on the Utah/Nevada border to a T. If you're under 70, you'll be in the minority for sure.

But hey! At least you have the surroundings to look at! Miles and miles of drab, featureless salt flats in every direction...
   57. The Good Face Posted: February 24, 2017 at 05:24 PM (#5408461)
Never, but I've been to Tahoe, Vegas, Reno and a couple of riverboats in the Midwest. Depressing as hell. I literally only go when I have to (business gathering, a relatives's 80th b-day, etc)


Never been to Tahoe or Reno, but that doesn't really describe my Vegas or riverboat experiences. Atlantic City, yes. That place is triple distilled, barrel proof depression. So many doddering old people dragging oxygen tanks around that I gave up on counting them all.
   58. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: February 24, 2017 at 05:42 PM (#5408471)
Turned out to be a bunch of desperate chain smoking pensioners staring catatonically at slot machines.

Somebody's been to Atlantic City! Detroit!

My first visit to a casino was designing an in-building cellular network for one of the casinos in downtown Detroit about 15 years ago. My lasting memory of that trip is the chain-smoking grandmother glued to her slot machine with her rolling oxygen tank at her side. Well that and the small gray cinder-block building with exactly one block removed from the wall about waist high on the side facing the street. I figured that must have been for easy transfer of cash and whatever was behind the wall.
   59. chisoxcollector Posted: February 24, 2017 at 05:53 PM (#5408479)
My wife and I go to Vegas every three years or so. We usually stay for 5 nights, and neither of us gambles much. We go for the food and entertainment.
   60. theboyqueen Posted: February 24, 2017 at 05:54 PM (#5408480)
My lasting memory of that trip is the chain-smoking grandmother glued to her slot machine with her rolling oxygen tank at her side.


You should have stayed a bit longer; your lasting memory may have been her setting herself on fire.
   61. BDC Posted: February 24, 2017 at 06:03 PM (#5408489)
Y'all haven't seen desperation till you've been to tribal casinos in Oklahoma or "riverboats" in Bossier City, Louisiana.

You may ask why on earth I've been there, but it's mainly because they offer very reasonable hotel rooms and meals when you're on your way through to someplace else.
   62. Chokeland Bill Posted: February 24, 2017 at 06:29 PM (#5408506)
I live in the Vegas area. I really doubt we're going to be able to support the NHL team, much less the MLB.
   63. Baldrick Posted: February 24, 2017 at 06:44 PM (#5408516)
Yes to all. I've been to Vegas many times (unless Boise is your idea of an exciting weekend getaway, it's just about the only major city close enough to SLC for a weekend road trip)

Man, I'd go to Boise 50 times before ever going back to Vegas again. YMMV.
   64. Hysterical & Useless Posted: February 24, 2017 at 07:13 PM (#5408529)
I gave up gambling when I was 16. Somehow, gambling was "the thing" that summer in my neighborhood (when we weren't playing baseball or basketball). We played some stupid form of poker (Acey Deucy? I don't know gambling games at all.) and one day the pot got up to like ten or fifteen dollars and I decided, this was not for me. I was either going to be taking money from my friends, or (much more likely) having them take what little money I had. Neither seemed like a particularly good option.

And casinos (never been to one) seem even worse. You know going in that they're set up so that they win. Yes, every day SOMEBODY takes out more money than they came in with. But people win the lottery too.

Years and years ago, before we had kids, my wife and I considered taking one of the day bus trips down to Atlantic City. As I recall, the bus was $10, but they gave you $10 in quarters and vouchers for food in one of the casinos. We thought, we could take the bus down, walk on the boardwalk to look at the ocean, grab some food, take the bus back. But we never did it.

   65. Greg Pope Posted: February 24, 2017 at 09:34 PM (#5408566)
Craps is fun, and has the best odds (including the only fair bet in the casino, the back bet). If you play a low value table with 10X odds, and always bet max odd, you're giving away almost nothing to the house.

But the money goes really fast in craps.


Craps may have the best odds, but it also seems to me to have the highest variance. You can win or lose a bunch very quickly and from my experience there's not much space in the middle. I can sit at a $10 blackjack table for hours, and even if I'm losing consistently, I'll probably only drop a couple hundred. I've gone to $10 craps tables and lost $300 in 15 minutes. Since I figure the casino's going to win my money anyway, I avoid craps.
   66. Shibal Posted: February 25, 2017 at 12:12 AM (#5408624)
I spend a lot of time in Vegas but never go to the strip. The local casinos are a lot more fun, filled with far friendlier people than the douches that usually visit the strip. And if you like the outdoors, there's no better base than Las Vegas. You can fly into Vegas for a couple of days, then drive a few hours to Death Valley, Mount Zion, Bryce Canyon or the Grand Canyon and spend the rest of your vacation there. For day trips, you have Red Rock Canyon, Valley of Fire, and the Hoover Dam area.

The limit for most people is three nights in Las Vegas. Any more than that and you are cooked.

And the possibility of a MLB team here is a joke. They'd have more luck sticking a team in Tulsa.
   67. Cargo Cultist Posted: February 25, 2017 at 12:14 AM (#5408626)
Add Vegas and San Antonio.
   68. Lassus Posted: February 25, 2017 at 08:32 AM (#5408646)
This describes Wendover (or Bendover, as it's more aptly called) on the Utah/Nevada border to a T.

Wendover is no Elko.
   69. Greg Pope Posted: February 25, 2017 at 10:31 AM (#5408662)
The local casinos are a lot more fun, filled with far friendlier people than the douches that usually visit the strip.

Any specific suggestions? I've exclusively stuck to the strip, with the exception of one trip down to Fremont St. (which I assume is not what you're talking about).
   70. Random Transaction Generator Posted: February 25, 2017 at 10:45 AM (#5408664)
I usually only enjoy blackjack if I get an entire table with nobody but me and my friends. Then you make it a social event, settle in for a few hours, get drunk and talk ####. Otherwise yeah, I agree with you.


I've been to Vegas quite a few times, and a good low-stakes limit poker table (or tournament no-limit) can be a lot of fun, just like you described.

However, the most relaxing game I've found to play is Pai Gow poker. It's hard to lose (or win) a lot of money at the table. I played for 3 hours in the morning (waiting for my friends to get up before heading off to the electronics convention), and I started with $200 and finished with $215. I spent the whole time chatting with a Chinese family that had arrived in Vegas overnight (from a city I don't remember). It's a friendly game (as everyone competes against the dealer), and I had a blast chatting (in broken English) with them the entire time. It's a very popular game with Asian players and women, it seems.

I find roulette and slot machines to be dreadful bore. Blackjack is a good time waster (and money waster if you hit a run of bad luck), and the other table games (Caribbean stud poker, Let It Ride) are just barely entertaining to watch. I've tried to get into craps, but the strategy/play eludes me to this day. It does have the loudest tables late in the evenings.
   71. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: February 25, 2017 at 10:49 AM (#5408667)
I had a blast chatting (in broken English) with them


I see your English has improved quite a bit since then. Congrats.
   72. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 25, 2017 at 11:16 AM (#5408675)
I love baseball, and I hate fruity Quebecois acrobats, but if I were in Vegas I'd rather see Cirque du Soleil than I would a baseball game. It's Vegas! It's what you do there.

Ugh, couldn't disagree more. Went to Cirque immediately after losing several hundred dollars at balckjack. I enjoyed the blackjack more.


I was there this past New Years Eve. My wife had a 24 hour layover there, so free room. Yay! We saw the Cirque du Soleil Beatles Love show. It was fantastic. Best live performance I have ever seen. It was worth ever penny of the $165 each tickets. Sounds like you will never go back, but if you do, give it a try.
   73. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 25, 2017 at 11:24 AM (#5408677)
Never been to Tahoe or Reno,


I've been to Tahoe, but only for skiing. I've been to Reno, but only as a means for getting to Tahoe.
   74. Hysterical & Useless Posted: February 25, 2017 at 12:03 PM (#5408687)
I hate fruity Quebecois acrobats


At the gym I go to, they're running ads for Cirque's Broadway show in heavy rotation. Among these ads are 3 spots featuring performers who talk a little bit about what they do in the show, and the workout routines they use to prep and stay in shape. One of the performers is a real All-American type girl dancer. The other two are these bullet-headed eastern European strong men, the guys who throw the "smaller people, what we call flyers" into the air.
   75. I am going to be Frank Posted: February 25, 2017 at 12:23 PM (#5408691)
I love Vegas. I also love to play poker. I've always managed to win money in Vegas (knock on wood). The last time I went I wanted to go to the Grand Canyon, but my trip wasn't long enough. However, my friend lives there and has a boat on Lake Mead. So I did end up seeing the Hoover Dam from the water side. I also went downtown, shot some guns and the went Vegas Sign Museum, which was pretty cool. Remarkably I did very little drinking while I was there.

I can't imagine staying in Vegas for more than three nights, even if I was consistently winning and if you don't like to gamble, there are only so many things besides shows, food and boozing. Might as well stay off the strip.

The Red Rock Casino is pretty much a locals casino and it's fairly upscale.
   76. QLE Posted: February 25, 2017 at 02:42 PM (#5408716)
In the case of Tahoe, it seemed to me from my most-recent visit that the crowds aren't on the "depressed pensioner" level- but a lot of that is because of the rise of tribal gaming in Northern California, as I get the impression that most of the folk who fit that category would be more likely to gamble closer to home.
   77. chisoxcollector Posted: February 25, 2017 at 02:57 PM (#5408719)
I was there this past New Years Eve. My wife had a 24 hour layover there, so free room. Yay! We saw the Cirque du Soleil Beatles Love show. It was fantastic. Best live performance I have ever seen. It was worth ever penny of the $165 each tickets. Sounds like you will never go back, but if you do, give it a try.

I've seen that show half a dozen times. It really is amazing. That show is the main reason my wife and I go to Vegas every 2-3 years.
   78. PreservedFish Posted: February 25, 2017 at 03:17 PM (#5408723)
I'm finding it tough to imagine the joy in watching trapeze artists interpret "Mean Mr Mustard."

edit > for the record, I've seen one Cirque du Soleil performance in Vegas. Don't recall which one. It was certainly impressive but ultimately felt like a silly thing that I don't ever need to do again.
   79. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 25, 2017 at 03:55 PM (#5408745)
I've seen that show half a dozen times. It really is amazing. That show is the main reason my wife and I go to Vegas every 2-3 years.


My two favorite numbers were the ridiculously over the top Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite, the minimalist

Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds, and the high energy opening number Get Back
   80. Shibal Posted: February 25, 2017 at 05:23 PM (#5408771)
Any specific suggestions? I've exclusively stuck to the strip, with the exception of one trip down to Fremont St. (which I assume is not what you're talking about).


Casinos in Summerlin are great, about 15 minutes northwest of the strip and five minutes from Red Rock Canyon. The Orleans is a good one as well, more touristy but a mature kind of tourist. It's a mile from the strip, with a shuttle going back and forth all day. Has a huge poker room, theatres, bowling, a ton of basketball tournaments during the year and is generally fun without the drunks.

#70 has the right idea with pai gow poker. It's such a slow game that it's hard to lose much money there, and the tables can be fun.
   81. DanG Posted: February 25, 2017 at 06:58 PM (#5408803)
My only concern is how would we ever find out the results of their home games. Because what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.
   82. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: February 25, 2017 at 07:09 PM (#5408806)
My only concern is how would we ever find out the results of their home games. Because what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.


*groan*
   83. Howie Menckel Posted: February 25, 2017 at 07:28 PM (#5408810)
Is Rita Rudner still there? I went to LV 14 or 15 summers ago and was amazed to see some performers who had fallen off my radar only to have their images plastered on billboards and taxicabs.

If anyone wonder whatever happened to Shania Twain, she's an artist in residence there.

Meanwhile, Atlantic City casinos now have the first video game gambling machines in North America. they will be in the two CT casinos next month and in Vegas by the end of the summer.

the first one they put out was a Call of Duty-type shooter game. the second one was like Candy Crush. the next one is video basketball shooting.

basically there are about 10,000 "maps" and you get a random one. get one of the easiest and any clown can win money shooting 'bots. Get one of the hardest, and even a professional sniper may not break even. most you can bet is $20 and most you can win is $500. you can get half your money back, break even, 2.5 times your money, etc - depends on how many bots you vanquish.
   84. Howie Menckel Posted: February 25, 2017 at 07:33 PM (#5408811)
Years and years ago, before we had kids, my wife and I considered taking one of the day bus trips down to Atlantic City. As I recall, the bus was $10, but they gave you $10 in quarters and vouchers for food in one of the casinos. We thought, we could take the bus down, walk on the boardwalk to look at the ocean, grab some food, take the bus back.

We did EXACTLY this en route to a free Beach Boys concert in the mid-1980s on the beach in AC (I think there were about 200,000 people no kidding). My pals and I paid $10 for the three-hour bus ride. We got our $10 in tokens as we got off the bus, walked into the casino, and immediately walked out with a $10 bill - which back then could get you a case of lousy beer (except at our age and income levels, there was no such thing as lousy beer).
   85. Rob_Wood Posted: February 25, 2017 at 07:38 PM (#5408812)
Has anybody mentioned the all-you-can eat shrimp cocktails for 99 cents? That was years ago and kinda gross (it was those baby shrimp with less than full flavor). But only 99 cents!
   86. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: February 25, 2017 at 07:52 PM (#5408816)
Meanwhile, Atlantic City casinos now have the first video game gambling machines in North America.

What!? Do you know which casinos?

They might finally induce me to gamble on something other than poker.
   87. AndrewJ Posted: February 25, 2017 at 08:11 PM (#5408821)
It'll be tough for MLB to compete with this in Vegas...
   88. Howie Menckel Posted: February 25, 2017 at 09:37 PM (#5408837)
What!? Do you know which casinos?

They might finally induce me to gamble on something other than poker.


currently it's Tropicana and the three Caesars properties - Caesars, Harrah's, Bally's. but am told all 7 survivors will have them by the end of next month.

many brand names this year coming like Mission Impossible, Terminator, and Ferris Bueller.

wait, maybe I shouldn't tell you this. but you can google it

http://www.northjersey.com/story/news/2017/02/24/video-game-gambling-atlantic-city/97891676/

http://www.northjersey.com/story/news/business/meadowlands-matters/2017/02/24/heres-whats-next-video-game-gambling-ac/98366120/?platform=hootsuite
   89. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: February 26, 2017 at 09:32 AM (#5408900)
I wanna play a Ferris Butler game where I get to be Jeffrey Jones chasing after naughty children.

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