Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Wednesday, July 24, 2013

MLB.com: A-Rod questions injury diagnosis by Yankees’ team doctor; Cashman responds

Brian Cashman is a man with his eyes on the prize, and that prize being the voiding of Alex Rodriguez’s contract:

TAMPA, Fla.—Alex Rodriguez and the Yankees are clashing over the diagnosis of the third baseman’s strained left quadriceps, as Rodriguez has enlisted the help of a new doctor to challenge the opinion that he is not ready to join the big league roster.

In response, Yankees general manager Brian Cashman released a statement on Wednesday that indicated Rodriguez has acted contrary to Major League Baseball’s Collective Bargaining Agreement by failing to inform the team that he was seeking a second opinion.

“Contrary to the Basic Agreement, Mr. Rodriguez did not notify us at any time that he was seeking a second opinion from any doctor with regard to his quad strain,” Cashman said. “As you know, it is the Yankees’ desire to have Alex return to the lineup as soon as possible. And we have done everything to try and accomplish this.”

The situation’s storyline developed on Sunday, when team physician Christopher Ahmad diagnosed Rodriguez with a Grade 1 strain of his left quad after an exam and MRI in New York. As a result, the Yankees said that Rodriguez would remain on the disabled list and return to Florida to rest and receive treatment.

But on Wednesday, Ahmad’s diagnosis was questioned by Dr. Michael Gross, chief of orthopedics of Hackensack University Medical Center in Hackensack, N.J. Gross said on WFAN Radio in New York that Rodriguez had asked him to look over the MRI to offer a second opinion.

Gross acknowledged to WFAN’s Mike Francesa that he has never treated Rodriguez in person and only spoke to the third baseman over the phone, but after spending about 20 minutes looking at the image, he saw no reason that Rodriguez couldn’t be in the Yankees’ lineup.

Surely this will end well for all parties.

Depressoteric Posted: July 24, 2013 at 09:41 PM | 112 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: new york, steroids, yankees

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 1 of 2 pages  1 2 > 
   1. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: July 24, 2013 at 10:50 PM (#4503427)
   2. Good cripple hitter Posted: July 24, 2013 at 11:03 PM (#4503447)
This article deserves the "crazy clown town" tag.
   3. Depressoteric Posted: July 24, 2013 at 11:09 PM (#4503451)
This article deserves the "crazy clown town" tag.
If one of the mods would like to modify accordingly, I'd welcome this.
   4. Gamingboy Posted: July 24, 2013 at 11:09 PM (#4503453)
I'm reasonable sure that Cashman is preparing to challenge A-Rod to a fight to the death.
   5. jobu Posted: July 24, 2013 at 11:15 PM (#4503462)
ARod needs a Dale Carnegie refresher.
   6. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 24, 2013 at 11:17 PM (#4503465)
This calls for a good old-fashioned "FREE [NAME OF PLAYER]!" movement.
   7. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 24, 2013 at 11:19 PM (#4503468)
Both doctors are correct. Gross was looking at an MRI of A-Rod's other left quad.
   8. SoSH U at work Posted: July 24, 2013 at 11:22 PM (#4503470)
7 is excellent.

   9. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 24, 2013 at 11:22 PM (#4503471)
The genesis of this stretches back to ARod opting out over Cashman's threats and then getting a big contract anyway. They then went through the first wave of steroids allegations and each party seemed to come out fine. Things really turned to crap last fall during the playoffs -- remember that the benching of ARod looked so bad that it was fair to wonder if ARod would ever play for the Yankees again... until everyone realized that he was owed $114 million and was untradeable. The subsequent hip injury -- now maybe the Yankees can reap the insurance claim -- and then the Biogenesis revelations -- now maybe the Yankees can get out from under the contract if MLB bans him for life -- have kept this relationship at a lowpoint. ARod seems to really distrust them given what happened last October and the tantrum Cashman threw over ARod's text message, and given that the Yankees would love to get out from under the contract if they can.

There's just a lot of bad blood here, most of it on the Yankees' side. ARod for the most part has handled himself professionally.
   10. Jim (jimmuscomp) Posted: July 24, 2013 at 11:24 PM (#4503474)
Elroy is killing it with the centaur jokes.
   11. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 24, 2013 at 11:26 PM (#4503476)
Correct, it's the hock that's getting spavined. The left forelimb has maybe some edema, and of course there's going to be laminitis at his age.
   12. Depressoteric Posted: July 24, 2013 at 11:31 PM (#4503479)
Elroy is killing it with the centaur jokes.
I agree. He had a great one in the other current A-Rod thread as well.
   13. Depressoteric Posted: July 24, 2013 at 11:32 PM (#4503480)
Correct, it's the hock that's getting spavined. The left forelimb has maybe some edema, and of course there's going to be laminitis at his age.
They shoot centaurs, don't they?
   14. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 24, 2013 at 11:34 PM (#4503481)
Thanks guys! I amaze myself with the lengths I'll go to to avoid studying six days before the bar exam. If I put half as much thought into Torts as I do in coming up with centaur jokes...
   15. Dudefella Posted: July 24, 2013 at 11:43 PM (#4503486)
Thanks guys! I amaze myself with the lengths I'll go to to avoid studying six days before the bar exam. If I put half as much thought into Torts as I do in coming up with centaur jokes...


On the bright side, it's been my experience (2 bar exams, DC and California, passed both first time) that you're going to know everything you're going to know by at least a week out. At this point, it's practice, and convincing yourself that you know what you know.

Good luck!
   16. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 24, 2013 at 11:48 PM (#4503490)
On the bright side, it's been my experience (2 bar exams, DC and California, passed both first time) that you're going to know everything you're going to know by at least a week out. At this point, it's practice, and convincing yourself that you know what you know.


Really? I pretty much learned everything in the last two weeks. That's when I got serious about studying. I knew maybe 10% of the material before then. (We had taken two or three mock exams throughout and I had failed each one miserably. I just wasn't putting in the time.)

I had my study books open during the breaks of the exam (granted that probably did me no good).
   17. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 24, 2013 at 11:52 PM (#4503496)
"Today, Yankees GM Brian Cashman announced that the team will accept the second opinion on Alex Rodriguez's quad and activate him from the disabled list in time for tomorrow's game. A-Rod will be starting at shortstop in place of the injured Derek Jeter. To show the club's appreciation, tomorrow's game has been designated 'A-Rod Day' at the Stadium. The first 10,000 fans will receive a commemorative A-Rod Miniature Rocking Horse, and the ball for the first pitch will be delivered to the mound by an aerial-acrobatics skydiver from St. Louis."
   18. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 24, 2013 at 11:55 PM (#4503498)
I'm taking IL, where the pass rate is north of 70%. I keep telling myself that the actual exam can't be as bad as BarBri would have us believe if that many people pass. But then again, as you can see, my study habits are something less than stellar.
   19. Depressoteric Posted: July 25, 2013 at 12:01 AM (#4503503)
I'm taking IL, where the pass rate is north of 70%. I keep telling myself that the actual exam can't be as bad as BarBri would have us believe if that many people pass. But then again, as you can see, my study habits are something less than stellar.
Eh, you should study but don't panic. I've taken IL and MD. I didn't go to BarBri for either (although I signed up and had the books). I started studying 4-5 days before each exam using the books, and wasn't particularly diligent about it either time. I passed both on the first try.

You'll be fine.

(Just make sure to know your negotiable instruments law down cold. That #### ALWAYS comes up on one of the IL essays, and it's basically free points for you provided you understand how the basic rules operate, whereas you haven't a hope in hell of getting even much partial credit if you don't.)
   20. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 25, 2013 at 12:08 AM (#4503505)


(Just make sure to know your negotiable instruments law down cold. That #### ALWAYS comes up on one of the essays.)


Ha - just studied that two nights ago. Not to hijack the thread, but it basically comes down to the elements that make an instrument negotiable, has it been properly negotiated, is the person actually a holder, the HDC rule, and breach of implied warranties, right? I'm not aiming for the model answer, just enough to get the big topics and maybe get a 3 or a 4.

Thanks for the reassurance. Be honest, though, are you off-the-charts genius? I'm fairly confident in my raw intellectual ability (solid GPA at top tier school with fairly minimal effort) but I certainly wouldn't be that confident. And did you take all the relevant classes in school?
   21. Depressoteric Posted: July 25, 2013 at 12:39 AM (#4503512)
Thanks for the reassurance. Be honest, though, are you off-the-charts genius? I'm fairly confident in my raw intellectual ability (solid GPA at top tier school with fairly minimal effort) but I certainly wouldn't be that confident. And did you take all the relevant classes in school?
Went to UofC and did well, and of course I'd like to think I'm pretty smart, but I'm no off-the-charts genius. What I am is a good test-taker and someone who enjoys multiple choice exams in particular. I did take a negotiable instruments class in 2L year, but it honestly felt like I was teaching the topic to myself for the first time when I covered it for bar prep.

One thing to also remember is that the MPT is basically there to give you free, easy points. If you went to a good law school and did well then you should have no trouble getting full credit on the MPT (which is simple -- they even cite you the relevant law so you can write your memo!) and that helps you build up a buffer for any potential failures in the other essay sections. I remember fully blowing at least two of the actual IEE essays COMPLETELY and half-assing another one, but it didn't matter because I was able to run up the score so much on the MPT and the MBE.

As far as the MBE is concerned, you know your own strengths and weaknesses in the core areas better than anyone else, so judge accordingly, but I personally recall there being a heavy focus on tricky questions of Contract Law (never my strong suit). And you best know your law of self defense and murder/manslaughter down cold as far as Crim Law is concerned. Torts was less problematic (because so much of it is really intuitive once you've been taught the basic framework for approaching potential liability -- even if you don't know the elements of a particular tort you can usually intuit your way to them in a pinch), but I'd make sure you know the various defamation and false light/invasion of privacy torts and how to distinguish btw. them -- they like to test on those on both the MBE AND the essays.
   22. ptodd Posted: July 25, 2013 at 01:38 AM (#4503522)
Shock, horror, a player who wants to play and seeks a 2nd opinion so he can do so, for a team that desperately needs a bat.
   23. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 25, 2013 at 02:29 AM (#4503527)
Thanks, Esoteric. How bad was the Real Property material on the MBE?
   24. rb's team is hopeful for the new year! Posted: July 25, 2013 at 02:29 AM (#4503528)
As you know

Do we?
   25. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: July 25, 2013 at 04:21 AM (#4503535)
If I put half as much thought into Torts as I do in coming up with centaur jokes...


Any chance there's a specialty called Centorts? If so, you're golden.
   26. BillWallace Posted: July 25, 2013 at 05:49 AM (#4503542)
Can anyone give a cliff notes of the various scenarios involving a-rod suspensions and whether he's currently on the roster or on the dl and what the impacts are? Like is there a reason the yanks want him to stay on the dl, or not? Why is it so important for him to come back right now?

Thanks!
   27. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: July 25, 2013 at 06:07 AM (#4503543)
I believe the Yankees want him on the DL, because their insurance is paying 80% of his salary while he is on it, and/or him playing would put a dent in their hopes of declaring him permanently unable to perform.

As for suspensions, the normal penalty for a failed test is 50 games for the first offense, 100 games for the second, and a permanent ban for the third. But it seems that for analytical evidence (i.e. non tests) it appears there are no set penalties in the JDA, and it's all up to MLB. They seem to be pushing for an expansive interpretation (basically every piece of evidence they have counts as a "new" offense), but whether that interpretation would be persuasive to an arbitrator is anyone's guess.
   28. BillWallace Posted: July 25, 2013 at 06:13 AM (#4503545)
Thanks, does it matter what a-rod's current status is when the suspension happens? It seems like what's going on is he's trying to beat the clock to get on the field before he's suspended while the yanks want him still on the dl, but why is that so important?
   29. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: July 25, 2013 at 06:59 AM (#4503551)
Players who are on the dl serve their suspension just like anyone else, so I don't see how that makes a difference. So the only rational reason I can think of is that they are attempting some sort of end around on the contract, and that him playing in MLB games would hurt their case. Once he is actively playing games, it becomes hard to argue that he is physically unable to perform, or that his steroid use caused him to break down or whatever case they are trying to make. Those cases seem like long shots to me, with the potential to hugely backfire, but what do I know...

The other possibility is that they are just plain trying to bully him into taking a buyout. Either that or it's just plain spite. Or it's Jeter's fault.
   30. bobm Posted: July 25, 2013 at 07:54 AM (#4503561)
I did not notice a thread on this recent piece by Howard Megdal.

There is no "physically unable to perform list," incidentally. If Rodriguez is suspended while on the disabled list, he's subject to losing his salary. If he voluntarily retires, he doesn't receive his salary. These are the two options. It's not clear how an insurance company would be on the hook for salary lost by suspension in either case.

Still, the Yankees continue to have a very clear imperative to keep him from taking the field, if possible. As reported by ESPN last winter, Rodriguez needs to be on the disabled list for a full season before their insurance policy kicks in. So had Rodriguez played Monday night in Texas, that clock presumably would have reset.

It isn't any wonder that Rodriguez, surprised by the diagnosis, would have considered a second opinion, from someone not employed by an organization that had a financial stake in him being injured, and had been leaking stories designed to discourage him from playing for months.

In the meantime, Rodriguez is now, just like Derek Jeter, an aging vet facing a return from a quad strain. The Yankees need them both, but there's no financial imperative to keeping Jeter off the field.


ESPN (Wallace Matthews) on A-Rod contract insurance
   31. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: July 25, 2013 at 08:06 AM (#4503564)
Ah, did not realize ARod had to miss an entire season for the insurance to pony up. That makes perfect sense then. IMO they are still setting themselves up for a grievance that could cost them a heck of a lot more than that though...
   32. Who Swished In Your Cornflakes? Posted: July 25, 2013 at 08:25 AM (#4503572)
This just keeps getting more and more fun. From ESPN, highlights from the latest wrinkle:

A doctor who disputed the interpretation of an MRI showing that New York Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez had a quad strain was previously reprimanded by the state of New Jersey in February for not properly supervising an unlicensed employee.

As part of the report filed by the state's attorney general, Dr. Michael Gross failed to "adequately ensure proper patient treatment involving the prescribing of hormones, including steroids" at the Acting Center for Health & Wellness.


And

Gross said he never has met Rodriguez in person. But on Wednesday, with Rodriguez's permission, Gross went on an extensive media tour, declaring that an MRI did not show a quad strain. Yankees team doctor Chris Ahmad had diagnosed Rodriguez with a Grade 1 strain. Rodriguez is expected to be out for at least two weeks.

...

"I spoke with Alex on the phone, and I asked him if he has any pain and he said, 'I don't,' " Gross said prior to the reprimand being reported. "I said, 'Do you have an injury?' And he said, 'I don't.' He said, 'Would you be willing to say I'm ready to play?' I said, 'No, I'm not willing to say that. I've never examined you. I've looked at your MRI.' But I asked him if you think you are ready to play and he said, 'Yes.'"

...

"I explained it [to Rodriguez] as a little unusual to just look at an MRI without actually examining the patient -- and I'm not a radiologist -- but I'd be happy to look at the MRI," Gross said.

...

"I did it because I thought it would be fun," Gross said. "I thought it would be interesting to be on this side of stuff. It was a lot of fun until the last half hour."
   33. Hack Wilson Posted: July 25, 2013 at 08:36 AM (#4503574)
This is great. Tonight Cashman's proctologist is going on ESPN to provide details of his last exam.

I heard the interview quoted in #32, above, I really thought it was a hoax.
   34. Bob Tufts Posted: July 25, 2013 at 09:01 AM (#4503580)
reprimanded .....for not properly supervising an ....employee.


Perhaps this should apply to Cashman re: monitoring A-Rod's actions?

   35. bunyon Posted: July 25, 2013 at 09:04 AM (#4503582)
Bizarre. So, if the conspiracy theory that MLB and the Yankees are together trying to get insurance to cover, we shouldn't expect an announcement of a suspenstion until he's been on the DL for a year?

It sure is hard to come to a legal decision when you just get leaked snippets of contracts.


Anyway, I have a hard time rooting here. On the one hand, I'd be fine if A-Rod were done. On the other, I want the Yankees to pay the full fare on the contract. If someone can figure out how we do that, I'm all ears.
   36. eddieot Posted: July 25, 2013 at 09:16 AM (#4503593)
I would think a grievance by the union would be in order if the Yanks are stalling on A-Rod's return. Of course, A-Rod drastically weakened his case by getting a second opinion without first informing the team, in clear violation of the CBA. Talented guy, but A-Rod certainly came up short in the common sense department.
   37. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: July 25, 2013 at 09:20 AM (#4503598)
Of course, A-Rod drastically weakened his case by getting a second opinion without first informing the team, in clear violation of the CBA. Talented guy, but A-Rod certainly came up short in the common sense department.

Why is this an issue? Generally speaking, not just limited to the A-Rod case.
   38. eddieot Posted: July 25, 2013 at 09:30 AM (#4503604)
Why is this an issue? Generally speaking, not just limited to the A-Rod case.

Why is this part of the CBA? I can only imagine it is to give the clubs control over their player's rehab. And to control which doctors they see. I'm not saying it's right or wrong generally, I'm just saying if A-Rod wants to build a strong grievance case, acting outside the CBA's procedures won't help his cause.
   39. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 25, 2013 at 09:33 AM (#4503606)
Am I the only one who finds this whole thing incredibly depressing? I've never been much of an A-Rod fan, and I'd just as soon the entire Yankee organization fell down a well, but he was one of the game's greatest players, and no one deserves this sordid of an ending to their career. It's like Barry Bonds mixed with the Dave Winfield/Howie Spira story, with a little bit of Denny McLain thrown in. Milton Bradley is looking at this and saying, "Hey, at least I'm not A-Rod."
   40. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 25, 2013 at 09:38 AM (#4503608)
Milton Bradley is looking at this and saying, "Hey, at least I'm not A-Rod."

I think being hounded out of baseball with $500M in lifetime earnings is a whole lot better than doing 2 years in county.
   41. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: July 25, 2013 at 09:39 AM (#4503610)
If a grievance is filed and other doctors back up ARod's claim that he could play, it's hard to imagine that his decision to get a second opinion without informing the team will be a big deal. It's tangential to the main issue. In any event, if there's any evidence that the Yankees are deliberately trying to keep him off the field to get the insurance to kick in, the insurance company is going to refuse to honor the claim. They're not fools.
   42. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 25, 2013 at 09:41 AM (#4503612)

Perhaps this should apply to Cashman re: monitoring A-Rod's actions?


BOOM. Roasted.
   43. tfbg9 Posted: July 25, 2013 at 09:51 AM (#4503620)
A Timeless Legacy®.
   44. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 25, 2013 at 09:52 AM (#4503621)
In any event, if there's any evidence that the Yankees are deliberately trying to keep him off the field to get the insurance to kick in, the insurance company is going to refuse to honor the claim.


Yes. One would think that filing a fraudulent doctor's report, if that's indeed what happened here, is a far more serious violation than a player seeking a second opinion on his own.
   45. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: July 25, 2013 at 10:01 AM (#4503628)
My professional legal opinion is that, if the Yankees are deliberately trying to keep ARod off the field to get the insurance to kick in, that is some seriously f**ked up s***.
   46. Nasty Nate Posted: July 25, 2013 at 10:02 AM (#4503631)
A Timeless Legacy®.


The mystique and aura and winning tradition is really shining through with all Yankee parties right now. And their chins are free from hair so we know their hearts are pure.
   47. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: July 25, 2013 at 10:02 AM (#4503632)
Don't let Barbri scare you. If you're not a dope, did ok in law school, and studied a fair amount for the bar, you'll pass.
   48. eddieot Posted: July 25, 2013 at 10:19 AM (#4503637)
Am I the only one who finds this whole thing incredibly depressing?

Not at all. This is baseball shooting itself in the foot. We all know A-Rod's issue but he was a fun ballplayer to watch. The fact that he's a narcissistic ass who can't get out of his own way frankly sucks. The fact that Cashman has hated this guy since he opted out and the Steinbrenner progeny overruled him and forced a re-up has turned Cashman into a sniveling wienie. Selig comes off as a tottering old fool with a twisted agenda to damage his product and whether the union defends A-Rod to the hilt or not, they will be criticized by half of baseball fans and BTF posters. The whole sordid mess is a whole sordid mess. Depressing is the best description. It's kind of like watching our Congress(not)work.
   49. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: July 25, 2013 at 10:25 AM (#4503641)
As a yanks fan, I hope Cashman leaves the scene soon.
   50. SoSH U at work Posted: July 25, 2013 at 10:30 AM (#4503647)
has turned Cashman into a sniveling wienie.


I don't think he needed A-Rod's help for that. He's been a complete dick for the better part of two years.

   51. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 25, 2013 at 10:45 AM (#4503659)
Talented guy, but A-Rod certainly came up short in the common sense department.


Indeed. Out of all the players not to show much horse sense...
   52. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 25, 2013 at 10:54 AM (#4503669)
No reason for the insurance company to comment yet, since no claim has been made. But you can be damned sure they will be going over this with a fine toothed comb before paying out some $85 million, if it comes to that.

My feeling on this whole mess is: I like watching ARod, and think the game is better when he's on the field, and if the Yankees are up to no good I want them to get what's coming to them. I don't understand (here I go again!!) why people have such a visceral reaction towards him - although I do understand that people can be irrational and silly. The contract plays in, but there's more to that here. Even before the steroids issues people were on him with silly claims that he was a choker in the playoffs.
   53. Greg Pope thinks the Cubs are reeking havoc Posted: July 25, 2013 at 11:04 AM (#4503682)
Anyway, I have a hard time rooting here. On the one hand, I'd be fine if A-Rod were done. On the other, I want the Yankees to pay the full fare on the contract. If someone can figure out how we do that, I'm all ears.

It doesn't matter to me whether the Yankees or the insurance company pays A-Rod. Only that the luxury tax (and other) calculations continue to count the contract. I mean, who cares if the YMS get an extra $30M, but I don't want it to be available to the Yankees to spend.
   54. bunyon Posted: July 25, 2013 at 11:05 AM (#4503686)
My feeling on this whole mess is: I like watching ARod, and think the game is better when he's on the field, and if the Yankees are up to no good I want them to get what's coming to them. I don't understand (here I go again!!) why people have such a visceral reaction towards him - although I do understand that people can be irrational and silly. The contract plays in, but there's more to that here. Even before the steroids issues people were on him with silly claims that he was a choker in the playoffs.

Indeed. I don't have to like the guy to enjoy watching him play.* He seems like a clueless, narcissitic jerk but, then, he's a celebrity and I think a better than average number of them are such.

And me too on the depressing bit. More so than Bonds, I think.


* Should be past tense. I don't find current A-Rod all that much fun in the sense that there are plenty of guys now better than him. But in his prime, he was astrounding.
   55. SoSH U at work Posted: July 25, 2013 at 11:06 AM (#4503687)
I mean, who cares if the YMS get an extra $30M, but I don't want it to be available to the Yankees to spend.


I do. I don't want the Yankees benefiting in any way from the #### it looks like they're trying to pull here, and would think that even if I didn't consider the Yankees the world's purest evil.

   56. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 25, 2013 at 11:09 AM (#4503696)
He seems like a clueless, narcissitic jerk


That's the media narrative of him, yes. Swallowed whole by most fans.
   57. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: July 25, 2013 at 11:11 AM (#4503697)
Anyway, I have a hard time rooting here.

I'm rooting for the Insurance Company(s).

Seriously.


   58. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 25, 2013 at 11:17 AM (#4503704)
Rodriguez has done some superficially weird-seeming things, but then again, his entire life is under a microscope. I doubt if they're all that much weirder than a lot of stuff we do.

If A-Rod was one of the guys you hang out with at work, rather than one of the most prominent and hated ballplayers in the world, I suspect his behavior would be unremarkable.
   59. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: July 25, 2013 at 11:24 AM (#4503709)
Save for the way he'd gallop to the xerox machine.
   60. Nasty Nate Posted: July 25, 2013 at 11:35 AM (#4503720)
If A-Rod is going to be facing the Braun-style suspension, wouldn't he be willing to help the Yankees by acting unable to play for the entire 2013 if that does, indeed, help them insurance-wise?

Should we infer he is fighting the Yankees for a chance to play because either (A) A-Rod will fight any disciplinary action and will not take a plea deal so therefore nothing will be settled in 2013 and/or (B) that the Yankees have poisoned the relationship with their weird media campaign against him (if such a campaign has actually existed).
   61. BillWallace Posted: July 25, 2013 at 01:06 PM (#4503826)
But if a-rod is suspended the yankees don't have to pay his salary anyways right? I'm still trying to work out a scenario where the yankees care whether he makes it back onto the field or not.
Scenarios
1) he plays 1 game and is suspended for life or a long tmie:
Yankees pay nearly 0. Arod gets nearly 0
2) he plays 0 games and is suspended for life or a long time:
Yankees pay 0. Arod gets 0.
3) he plays some substantial number of games this season and is then suspended
Yankees pay salary for those games, Arod gets it.

And so on.

The only way I can see it really mattering whether arod gets a game or two in but nothing else is if he's not going to be imminently suspended but instead is likely to play and then go on the dl again for a long period of time, in which case the yankees would lose a lot by having the clock reset. But how would they know he's going back on the dl?, and anyway that doesn't seem to be what's going on here. I still can't figure out any logical conspiracy theory that involves the Yankees trying to prevent a healthy Arod from playing right now, as opposed to playing in a couple of weeks (or being suspended starting next week say) and thereby saving some large chunk of cash. Can anyone else come up with anything?

   62. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 25, 2013 at 01:06 PM (#4503827)

If A-Rod was one of the guys you hang out with at work, rather than one of the most prominent and hated ballplayers in the world, I suspect his behavior would be unremarkable.


Yeeeeaaaah. I remember this one job I had, there was this guy Ted in accounting. One day he said he had a painting of himself as a minotaur hanging above his bed. No one really thought anything of it - he was just Ted the Minotaur From Accounting.
   63. SoSH U at work Posted: July 25, 2013 at 01:11 PM (#4503836)
But if a-rod is suspended the yankees don't have to pay his salary anyways right? I'm still trying to work out a scenario where the yankees care whether he makes it back onto the field or not.


As I understand it, if he plays one game this season, and then gets suspended, the Yankees are on the hook for his salary for every game he spent on the DL until now. (If he's making $30 million, that's in the $16-18 million range). If he spends the entire season on the DL DL/Suspended, they'd only have to shell out $3-4.5 million in salary.


   64. Bitter Mouse Posted: July 25, 2013 at 01:13 PM (#4503840)
For a while Frenchy was my favorite player (snark division), but in this horse race A-Rod has has taken home the big purse. So I am routing for him to finish out his career in style and then be put out to stud.
   65. Nasty Nate Posted: July 25, 2013 at 01:25 PM (#4503857)
It behooves Rodriguez to keep playing; that's the mane thing.
   66. Ron J2 Posted: July 25, 2013 at 01:39 PM (#4503870)
#62 Over the years I've worked with some pretty off-beat individuals. I imagine you have too.

Now try and imagine that there was no such thing as an "if only I could afford it" filter in place for them.
   67. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: July 25, 2013 at 01:43 PM (#4503877)
Yeeeeaaaah. I remember this one job I had, there was this guy Ted in accounting. One day he said he had a painting of himself as a minotaur hanging above his bed. No one really thought anything of it - he was just Ted the Minotaur From Accounting.

How did you know it was him. Did he have a really identifiable penis?

That said, I know a couple of furrs who have drawings of themselves as various animals. And of course our very own Greg(U)K has a painting of himself as a 19th century baseball playing fox. I see nothing wrong with any of it. Whatever floats your boat.
   68. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: July 25, 2013 at 01:51 PM (#4503891)
Now try and imagine that there was no such thing as an "if only I could afford it" filter in place for them.

I have two words for you: Hookers and blow. Well ok, I guess technically that's three words.
   69. Srul Itza Posted: July 25, 2013 at 01:52 PM (#4503894)
From the article linked in the first post:

The New York Daily News first reported the reprimand Wednesday and said MLB would expand its drug probe to examine Rodriguez's relationship with Gross.


This just keeps getting better and better.
   70. Depressoteric Posted: July 25, 2013 at 01:56 PM (#4503899)
A-Rod really seems to have donned the shirt of Nessus at this point; will his agonies ever end?
   71. John Northey Posted: July 25, 2013 at 02:06 PM (#4503909)
If what #63 says is correct then the Yankees could be facing multiple lawsuits. One from the insurance company and one from A-Rod. The insurance due to insurance fraud (claiming A-Rod is hurt when he isn't) and A-Rod due to it affecting the ability of him being able to reach the milestones on his contract. Explains the 2nd opinion he got and why Cashman would be mad about it as that opinion is a 'smoking gun' for the insurance company for certain.
   72. Bitter Mouse Posted: July 25, 2013 at 02:13 PM (#4503918)
It is like MLB, the Yankees and A-Rod all got together and thought out the strategy that would be collectively worst for all of them and then went for it.
   73. John Northey Posted: July 25, 2013 at 02:17 PM (#4503926)
Thinking about it some more, the 3B for the Yankees this year have a sOPS+ of 56. They are that far behind the league 3B. That means even a hurt A-Rod would probably double production at that position leading to many more wins and probably a playoff appearance. So if you are a player on the Yankees, a fan of the Yankees, or even one of the owners you should be furious about having A-Rod kept out of games right now and possibly for the rest of the season as that could easily be the difference between a playoff and a looong winter which is extremely valuable to the Yankees.
   74. TDF, situational idiot Posted: July 25, 2013 at 02:20 PM (#4503930)
#62 Over the years I've worked with some pretty off-beat individuals. I imagine you have too.

Now try and imagine that there was no such thing as an "if only I could afford it" filter in place for them.
Hell, I think I'm normal (none of you are, but I am) and I shudder to think what I'd do without that filter.
   75. BillWallace Posted: July 25, 2013 at 02:38 PM (#4503955)
SoSH U at work said: As I understand it, if he plays one game this season, and then gets suspended, the Yankees are on the hook for his salary for every game he spent on the DL until now. (If he's making $30 million, that's in the $16-18 million range). If he spends the entire season on the DL DL/Suspended, they'd only have to shell out $3-4.5 million in salary.


Aha! This is what I was looking for. So the 1 year milestone includes retroactive insurance coverage for the previous 1 year. If that's the case then yeah there's a huge incentive for the yanks to have him make it to 1 year. It does seem weird that that's how it would be structured though... it's begging for this kind of manipulation.

But if this is right then we've got ourselves a show I think.

   76. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 25, 2013 at 02:44 PM (#4503961)
Hell, I think I'm normal (none of you are, but I am) and I shudder to think what I'd do without that filter.

Really? The only think I'd really change if I were filthy rich is I'd golf on nicer courses.
   77. SoSH U at work Posted: July 25, 2013 at 02:46 PM (#4503963)
Aha! This is what I was looking for.


Keep in mind, I'm about the last guy you would trust on matters such as this. That was simply my interpretation of the situation based on what Bob excerpted in Post 30.
   78. Greg Pope thinks the Cubs are reeking havoc Posted: July 25, 2013 at 02:47 PM (#4503965)
So the 1 year milestone includes retroactive insurance coverage for the previous 1 year.

I assume that all insurance is this way. The team has been paying A-Rod all year. If he goes the whole year on the DL, they file a claim with the insurance company and if it succeeds they get a check. The insurance company doesn't actually pay A-Rod, he's not the one who bought the insurance.

If he plays a game, the Yankees can't file a claim (or they can and it will be rejected).
   79. villageidiom Posted: July 25, 2013 at 02:52 PM (#4503969)
But on Wednesday, Ahmad’s diagnosis was questioned by Dr. Michael Gross, chief of orthopedics of Hackensack University Medical Center in Hackensack, N.J. Gross said on WFAN Radio in New York that Rodriguez had asked him to look over the MRI to offer a second opinion.
The Yankees are discrediting the doctor's diagnosis solely based on a review of the MRI. They say that at a minimum the doctor would have had to examine A-Rod's teeth.
   80. McCoy Posted: July 25, 2013 at 02:52 PM (#4503970)
Really? The only think I'd really change if I were filthy rich is I'd golf on nicer courses.

If I was really rich I would buy the 51,000 sq ft Franklin School and turn it into my home. Probably cost 100 million dollars when all is said and done but that's ashtray money, bro.
   81. Nasty Nate Posted: July 25, 2013 at 02:57 PM (#4503981)
Really? The only think I'd really change if I were filthy rich is I'd golf on nicer courses.


...in your hovercraft golf cart, of course.
   82. Repoz Posted: July 25, 2013 at 03:20 PM (#4504019)
Matthews tweet: "Yankees GM Brian Cashman will hold a conf. call with Yankee beat writers shortly. Can;t wait to hear what this is about"
   83. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 25, 2013 at 03:23 PM (#4504021)
...in your hovercraft golf cart, of course.

I'd settle for air-conditioned, with a fridge for beverages ;-)
   84. Nasty Nate Posted: July 25, 2013 at 03:27 PM (#4504029)
Matthews tweet: "Yankees GM Brian Cashman will hold a conf. call with Yankee beat writers shortly. Can;t wait to hear what this is about"


Cashman to Matthews: "Shut the %#&@ up!"
   85. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: July 25, 2013 at 03:31 PM (#4504037)
If I was really rich I would buy the 51,000 sq ft Franklin School and turn it into my home. Probably cost 100 million dollars when all is said and done but that's ashtray money, bro.


I know a guy who did this, father of a girl I went to high school with. Became filthy rich, bought a museum on 5th Avenue in NYC and turned it into his house. Totally badass.
   86. bunyon Posted: July 25, 2013 at 03:32 PM (#4504040)
He seems like a clueless, narcissitic jerk



That's the media narrative of him, yes. Swallowed whole by most fans.


Of course - I don't know the man. But, then, I don't know any of these guys and, in my experience, if I have to bet on whether or not I'd like any random individual, I should bet against.

A-Rod was a lot of fun to watch play. He has zero impact on my life in any other form.
   87. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 25, 2013 at 03:33 PM (#4504042)
And of course our very own Greg(U)K has a painting of himself as a 19th century baseball playing fox.


Well sure but we can't mock him about it every time his name is mentioned. That would be rude.
   88. base ball chick Posted: July 25, 2013 at 04:35 PM (#4504137)
Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 25, 2013 at 09:33 AM (#4503606)

Am I the only one who finds this whole thing incredibly depressing? I've never been much of an A-Rod fan, and I'd just as soon the entire Yankee organization fell down a well, but he was one of the game's greatest players, and no one deserves this sordid of an ending to their career. It's like Barry Bonds mixed with the Dave Winfield/Howie Spira story, with a little bit of Denny McLain thrown in. Milton Bradley is looking at this and saying, "Hey, at least I'm not A-Rod."


it's BEYOND depressing

MLB seems to have an axe out for any player who is any good - except The Sainted Mo Rivera
and how this is gonna attract fans i do not know

but the thing with arod is beyond over the top. sure he's a weirdo (can't think of a better word) but hey, the world is full of weirdos and everyone can't be jeff francoeur

the serious HATE started the minute he signed that contract witht he rangers and it has only gotten worse.

and now his own team is trying to cheat the insurance company and i hope the ins company demands that arod be examined by a doctor of THEIR choosing, or at least, someone not employed or associated in any way with the yankees.

but no matter WHAT happens, arod's rep is permanently damaged and he can't be cleared any more than roger clemens did

i hate witch hunts and lynchings
   89. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: July 25, 2013 at 04:36 PM (#4504138)

I've read the entire thread and I'm still LOLing at #7. As others have said, you're on a roll.
   90. KT's Pot Arb Posted: July 25, 2013 at 04:42 PM (#4504142)
No reason for the insurance company to comment yet, since no claim has been made. But you can be damned sure they will be going over this with a fine toothed comb before paying out some $85 million, if it comes to that.


I find it very unlikely any insurance company insured this contract for 100% of A-Rod's salary, in fact I am very curious about the 75% figure give by the source in the Mathews article.

According to a baseball source with knowledge of the contract, the Yankees are insured for a good portion of the $114 million they owe Rodriguez over the next five seasons. According to the source, who has worked on similar contracts, it is likely that New York could recoup at least 75 percent, and perhaps as much as 100 percent, of the money it would still have to pay Rodriguez.


The first sentence seems to indicate the source had knowledge of the specifics of the contract, but it also reads as if the source was speculating based on their knowledge of how similar contracts are written. The article also says that coverages are now typically limited to 5 years, which can't be true in this case or it would have expired.

A-Rod's contract was the largest of all time, and it was for his 30s up to age 41, years with a great deal of injury risk. The premiums for a contract covering 75-100% of that risk for the full 10 years should have been enormous. I would guess at least $25M up front, or payments of $3M+ a year. The easiest way to manage risk without limiting coverage length would be to limit risk assumption, by paying less than 75-100%, say 50%. This also reduces incentives for the buyer to game the contract by holding the player out of games to trigger coverage. But again description of the Yankees behavior today suggests those incentives are still here, and substantial.
   91. villageidiom Posted: July 25, 2013 at 05:08 PM (#4504170)
it's BEYOND depressing

MLB seems to have an axe out for any player who is any good - except The Sainted Mo Rivera
and how this is gonna attract fans i do not know

I will say this in defense of MLB here... Ten years ago you had Rick Helling, Curt Schilling, and Frank Thomas saying PED use was an outrage, and pretty much the rest of the players saying (shrug) "I dunno, man, yeah, it's not good, we all want to be on a level playing field, what are ya gonna do?" The one thing I've seen so far among the players in the last week is how pissed they are at Braun, because he was so firm in his profession of innocence. They're not pissed because he used; they're pissed because the only thing fans will think if anyone professes innocence is "yeah, that's what Braun said". The players thought they were past this.

Yeah, maybe they thought wrong. Regardless, it seems today there are far more players who want PEDs out of the game than there were 10 years ago. Players are saying the harsh penalties aren't harsh enough. That alone is progress IMO.
   92. TDF, situational idiot Posted: July 25, 2013 at 05:08 PM (#4504171)
Really? The only think I'd really change if I were filthy rich is I'd golf on nicer courses.
Then you have no imagination.

When Bill Gates built his new digs a few years ago, it was said that when a guest walked into a room that person's favorite music would automatically start playing and would quit when he exited. Since I was old enough read my brother's Road & Track I've wanted a Ferrari; the new La Ferrari is stunning. I've heard Tahiti is nice most times of the year. I spent 8 years as a high-end audio salesman; Wilson Audio Alexadria LXF speakers are $200,000/pair.

Of course, for all I know, you already have all of these things. In that case, you may have to wait for that opening at Augusta National.
   93. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 25, 2013 at 05:16 PM (#4504179)
Then you have no imagination.

When Bill Gates built his new digs a few years ago, it was said that when a guest walked into a room that person's favorite music would automatically start playing and would quit when he exited. Since I was old enough read my brother's Road & Track I've wanted a Ferrari; the new La Ferrari is stunning. I've heard Tahiti is nice most times of the year. I spent 8 years as a high-end audio salesman; Wilson Audio Alexadria LXF speakers are $200,000/pair.

Of course, for all I know, you already have all of these things. In that case, you may have to wait for that opening at Augusta National.


Nope, I have none of those things. But, I don't really want them. I could afford to go to Tahiti if I wanted, but I don't.

Yeah, maybe I'd buy a few classic cars, or a few collectible firearms, but I wouldn't really alter my day-to-day life.
   94. They paved Misirlou, put up a parking lot Posted: July 25, 2013 at 05:29 PM (#4504193)
When Bill Gates built his new digs a few years ago, it was said that when a guest walked into a room that person's favorite music would automatically start playing and would quit when he exited. Since I was old enough read my brother's Road & Track I've wanted a Ferrari; the new La Ferrari is stunning. I've heard Tahiti is nice most times of the year. I spent 8 years as a high-end audio salesman; Wilson Audio Alexadria LXF speakers are $200,000/pair.


I could easily spend several million on boats and related equipment (high end fishing and dive gear and the like). And maybe 10 mil on a waterfront property with all the bells and whistles. And several hundred thousand annually on upkeep. I would buy the property that my kids charter school rents and give them a 99 year lease at $1 per year. Blow a hundred gran each year on extravagant first class vacations. Stock a top notch wine cellar. that will do for starters.
   95. ursus arctos Posted: July 25, 2013 at 06:14 PM (#4504239)
Evidently, Rodriguez is on WFAN with Francesa, telling him that he wants to play tomorrow but that the Yankees won't let him. Claims to have a lawyer "documenting everything".
   96. bobm Posted: July 25, 2013 at 06:37 PM (#4504253)
[90]

AP (Ron Blum) Jan 30, 2013

Even before the charges were published Tuesday by the alternative weekly Miami New Times along with accusations against Melky Cabrera, Nelson Cruz, Gio Gonzalez, Bartolo Colon and Yasmani Grandal, some Yankees executives were wishing Rodriguez would just go away. Speaking on condition of anonymity because the team isn't publicly commenting on A-Rod's latest troubles, they revealed their frustration with the slugger.

And they have a big incentive for A-Rod to disappear. If he doesn't play again due to a career-ending injury, about 85 percent of the $114 million he's owed by the team would be covered by insurance, according to one of the executives who spoke on condition of anonymity.

New York also might be able to free itself from having the $27.5 million average annual value of Rodriguez's contract count in its luxury tax payroll in each of the next five seasons, a key factor as the Yankees try to get under the $189 million threshold in 2014.If Rodriguez is on the disabled list, his contract is included. But if he's on the voluntary retired list, it would not be part of the total.

And if the Yankees fall under that $189 million benchmark, their luxury tax rate would drop from its current 50 percent to 17.5 percent for 2015. That would give them far more flexibility to pursue pitchers Clayton Kershaw, Felix Hernandezand Justin Verlander if they become free agents following the 2014 season.

New York is not likely to be able to void A-Rod's deal. Baseball's drug agreement between management and the players' association specifies the commissioner's office has all disciplinary authority for violations.


http://nytimes.stats.com/mlb/story.asp?i=20130130185627593312308&ref=rec&tm;=&src=MLB
   97. bobm Posted: July 25, 2013 at 06:40 PM (#4504254)
NY Times - BASEBALL; Uneasy Rider: Insuring Clemens a Big Risk
By RICHARD SANDOMIR
Published: May 10, 2007

In one well-known disability insurance case, the Houston Astros sued their insurer for breach of contract when it would not pay off their $15.6 million claim on the salary of the former first baseman Jeff Bagwell. The case was settled late last year, but the amount was not disclosed.


http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D02E7DE1431F933A25756C0A9619C8B63
   98. Dr. Vaux Posted: July 25, 2013 at 06:45 PM (#4504260)
So A-Rod getting this second opinion could be just to try to undermine the Yankees' upcoming case against the insurance company.

If the Yankees are hoping to get the insurance company to pay by not letting him play again, though, wouldn't they be trying hard to get him not suspended? The insurance company can always claim, if he gets a long suspension, that it was the suspension that finished his career rather than the injury.
   99. JJ1986 Posted: July 25, 2013 at 06:49 PM (#4504264)
If the Yankees are hoping to get the insurance company to pay by not letting him play again, though, wouldn't they be trying hard to get him not suspended?


Not if he's not helping them. It would be impossible to claim he was too injured to play for years and years, but possible if they only have to make it to the end of the year before he gets suspended.
   100. bobm Posted: July 25, 2013 at 06:50 PM (#4504265)
Flip
Page 1 of 2 pages  1 2 > 

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Guts
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogChase Headley traded to New York Yankees from San Diego Padres - ESPN New York
(65 - 5:32pm, Jul 22)
Last: billyshears

NewsblogOT: NBC.news: Valve isn’t making one gaming console, but multiple ‘Steam machines’
(673 - 5:32pm, Jul 22)
Last: TFTIO can't talk like this -- he's so sorry.

NewsblogFSAZ: D-backs cut off McCarthy’s cutter controversy
(24 - 5:29pm, Jul 22)
Last: The Yankee Clapper

NewsblogRangers' Yu Darvish Pushes for a Six-Man Pitching Rotation - NYTimes.com
(9 - 5:29pm, Jul 22)
Last: PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth)

NewsblogPoll: Does Citizens Bank Park really need metal detectors at the gates?
(25 - 5:28pm, Jul 22)
Last: KT's Pot Arb

NewsblogOTP - July 2014: Republicans Lose To Democrats For Sixth Straight Year In Congressional Baseball Game
(2709 - 5:27pm, Jul 22)
Last: Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams)

NewsblogOT: The Soccer Thread July, 2014
(313 - 5:11pm, Jul 22)
Last: ursus arctos

NewsblogTony Oliva turns 76; Gardenhire: 'He should be in hall of fame'
(38 - 5:10pm, Jul 22)
Last: Tubbs & Minnie Miñoso don't fear Sid Monge

NewsblogTrading for Price would be right move for Cubs | FOX Sports
(68 - 5:08pm, Jul 22)
Last: zonk

NewsblogGeorge "The Animal" Steele Mangles A Baseball
(122 - 4:40pm, Jul 22)
Last: Tubbs & Minnie Miñoso don't fear Sid Monge

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread- July 2014
(811 - 3:55pm, Jul 22)
Last: Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band.

NewsblogSports Reference Blog: 1901-02 Orioles Removed from Yankees History
(22 - 3:30pm, Jul 22)
Last: villageidiom

NewsblogJim Bouton Still As Opinionated As Ever
(149 - 3:27pm, Jul 22)
Last: Barry`s_Lazy_Boy

NewsblogMisremembering Mantle's Final Season
(43 - 2:52pm, Jul 22)
Last: Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 1956 Discussion
(32 - 2:42pm, Jul 22)
Last: Tubbs & Minnie Miñoso don't fear Sid Monge

Page rendered in 0.5482 seconds
52 querie(s) executed