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Saturday, September 13, 2008

MLB.com: [Cliff] Lee wins 22nd as Indians rout Royals

Cliff Lee picked up his Major League-best 22nd win of the season, going 8 1/3 innings as the Indians beat the Royals, 12-5, before 32,843 fans Friday night at Progressive Field.

Lee has won each of his last 11 decisions since July 11. At 22-2, Lee is the first pitcher to be 20 games over .500 since Bob Welch was 27-6 in 1990. He is now just one win shy of becoming the Indians’ winningest left-hander in a season. That honor currently belongs to Vean Gregg, who won 23 games in 1911.

NTNgod Posted: September 13, 2008 at 02:42 AM | 35 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: game recaps, indians, royals

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1. Harry Balsagne's transparent jealousy

Posted: September 13, 2008 at 02:57 AM (#2939982)

This seals the deal on K-Rod's MVP.

2. Oriole Tragic is totally awesome in the postseason Posted: September 13, 2008 at 03:01 AM (#2939984)

You mean K-Rod's CY, right?

3. Shock Posted: September 13, 2008 at 03:03 AM (#2939985)

Jesus Christ, he faced the Royals again? Come on, already.

4. Oriole Tragic is totally awesome in the postseason Posted: September 13, 2008 at 03:12 AM (#2939990)

He's got to win against one of BOS, MIN, and possibly the White Sox to break the record. Good thing for him he won tonight.

5. UCCF Posted: September 13, 2008 at 03:12 AM (#2939991)

I've always said, that Cliff Lee, he's no Vean Gregg. Maybe I was wrong.

6. Oriole Tragic is totally awesome in the postseason Posted: September 13, 2008 at 03:18 AM (#2939994)

Yeah, Shock, wow. Going into tonight, he's 4-0, 2.15, 24/4 against KC this year. He's had some lucky turns.

7. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot

Posted: September 13, 2008 at 03:29 AM (#2939999)

These are Lee's game scores since June 20th: 64, 80, 68, 53, 68, 61, 72, 28, 53, 67, 67, 60, 62, 81, and 64. Don't know what tonight's was yet. 12 out of 15 games with scores of 60 or better, and with a bit of luck he could have been 23 and 1.

That is one sick f*ck*ng set of numbers. It's just mindboggling that anyone could look at them and even think for a second about giving the CYA to a goddam closer with a higher ERA and half a dozen blown saves.

8. Oriole Tragic is totally awesome in the postseason Posted: September 13, 2008 at 03:35 AM (#2940004)

Totally.

Check this out: 29 GS, 28 BB.

That includes tonight's game, in which he walked none.

Crikey.

9. Dag Nabbit apealing [sic] his own check swing Posted: September 13, 2008 at 03:57 AM (#2940006)

Vean Gregg was a tremendous pitcher before blowing his arm out.

Lefties who never won 22 for the Indians: Sam McDowell, Herb Score, C. C. Sabathia, and a whole bunch of other guys.

10. Oriole Tragic is totally awesome in the postseason Posted: September 13, 2008 at 04:09 AM (#2940011)

CC Sabathia probably would've had a good shot at it.

11. dirk

Posted: September 13, 2008 at 04:10 AM (#2940012)

A ton has been made about the crummy teams he's pitched against, but he's dispatched all of them with zero prejudice. Halladay has more innings against better opponents, but at this point if Lee gets the vote in a landslide I won't be motivated to have a spirited debate with anyone.

12. Oriole Tragic is totally awesome in the postseason Posted: September 13, 2008 at 04:27 AM (#2940016)

Lee doesn't seem to have a lot of Gullickson-type wins, this year. You know, where offense would bail him out for the win or ND.

In fact, as Andy suggested, he could easily have more wins. He's got some pretty unlucky ND's. Particularly, a 9-inning shutout performance and two one-run, 8-inning outings.

13. Baldrick Posted: September 13, 2008 at 05:15 AM (#2940031)

K-Rod will receive two first place votes. Lee will get the rest.

That's my prediction.

I still have a hard time believing that Cliff Lee (yeah, that Cliff Lee) is having the year he's had, but he's managed to keep up his out-of-this-world pace all year, so more power to him.

14. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn)

Posted: September 13, 2008 at 06:08 AM (#2940043)

I still think there's a case to be made for Halladay based on strength of opponents and his having twice as many as complete games. But, yeah, Lee's been pretty amazing this year.

15. Oriole Tragic is totally awesome in the postseason Posted: September 13, 2008 at 06:22 AM (#2940046)

Interesting. Halladay reeled off four straight CG's in April, but the middle two looked kinda rough. Still, he only walked one batter in each of those games. 35 BB in 30 starts is virtually even with Lee, perhaps better, since Halladay has thrown nearly 25 more IP.

Anybody know if Cleveland's defense is much better than Toronto's?

16. Best Dressed Chicken in Town Posted: September 13, 2008 at 06:45 AM (#2940052)

Spending 3 seconds thinking about it, I'd say Cleveland has a better OF, Toronto a better IF.

17. Best Dressed Chicken in Town Posted: September 13, 2008 at 06:50 AM (#2940054)

Overbay > Garko
Hill/Inglett/Scutaro vs. Cabrera/Carroll ???? I think Toronto's group is OK? Cabrera is good. Carroll??
Eckstein/McDonald/Scutaro > Peralta
Rolen > Blake/Marte
Lind/Stewart = Francisco/Dellucci ??? I'd pick Cleveland but a fan the other day seemed very down on them
Wells < Sizemore ??
Rios = Gutierrez

18. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn)

Posted: September 13, 2008 at 07:25 AM (#2940059)

Fwiw ...

Defensive Efficiency: TOR .710, CLE .698

Plus/Minus: TOR 64, CLE 20

Unearned Runs: TOR 45, CLE 46

Field %: TOR .986, CLE .985

Errors: TOR 77, CLE 82

19. Oriole Tragic is totally awesome in the postseason Posted: September 13, 2008 at 07:43 AM (#2940061)

So, roughly even, except for the video review method. I didn't know Plus/Minus for 2008 was done, already.

EDIT: I wonder how much better Halladay's numbers would look, if he hadn't been left out there to finish some of those CG.

20. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn)

Posted: September 13, 2008 at 09:07 AM (#2940077)

Oh, and ...

RZR: TOR .837, CLE .827

21. Determit Posted: September 13, 2008 at 01:06 PM (#2940095)

From a pure anecdotal standpoint, Francisco takes awful routes and moves slow in left field. Nice arm, though.

And Gutierrez is amazing. Heaps and heaps of praise. But I'd have to guess the Toronto infield has the upper hand on Cleveland.

22. Darren

Posted: September 13, 2008 at 01:40 PM (#2940102)

This guy is the only reason that I haven't yet clinched my fantasy league. What a complete fluke. It's one thing to have a great year but to also go 22-2? Lose already you fool!

23. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot

Posted: September 13, 2008 at 01:49 PM (#2940103)

Game scores by group:

20-29 Halladay - 0; Lee - 2

30-39 Halladay - 2; Lee - 2

40-49 Halladay - 5; Lee - 1

Total below "average" starts: Halladay - 7; Lee - 5

50-59 Halladay - 8; Lee - 5

Total "good / gave us a chance to win" starts: Halladay - 8; Lee - 5

60-69 Halladay - 5; Lee - 10

70-79 Halladay - 7; Lee - 3

80-89 Halladay - 2; Lee - 4

90-99 Halladay - 1; Lee - 1

Total "if we lost, don't blame me" starts: Halladay - 15; Lee - 18

Lee's ERA is about half a run lower (2.28 to 2.77), but Halladay's got the equivalent of 3 more starts (22.3 more innings).

I'd go with Lee, but as long as it's one of those two and not K-Rod, I won't complain.

24. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: September 13, 2008 at 01:59 PM (#2940105)

having twice as many as complete games.

For as much extra credit that Halladay seems to be receiving for CG, he has 14 more IP than Lee in one more GS (and one extra relief appearance).

14 innings has value, but I'm not convinced the CG portion of it adds all that much more value.

25. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: September 13, 2008 at 02:01 PM (#2940106)

Andy, it appears you were looking at stats in #23 that didn't include Lee's start last night.

26. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: September 13, 2008 at 02:01 PM (#2940107)

K-Rod would be a ridiculously bad choice.

27. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot

Posted: September 13, 2008 at 02:11 PM (#2940109)

Andy, it appears you were looking at stats in #23 that didn't include Lee's start last night.

You're right. The gamelogs page for Lee only goes up through the previous start. But that game last night doesn't change anything, since those last three runs were in garbage time. Two runs in the first eight innings are more reflective of the quality of his start than his final stats line.

28. Baldrick Posted: September 13, 2008 at 02:14 PM (#2940110)

Halladay will not get a single first place vote, and should not. I really like the guy and would love to see him get some more hardware, but let's be serious.

29. Random Transaction Generator Posted: September 13, 2008 at 03:25 PM (#2940135)

In my baseball pool, one of the guys had to leave early (family emergency). He hadn't had a chance to make his final pick (snake draft), but said "just grab a pitcher for me". When his turn came up, we decided to give him Cliff Lee as he wasn't going to care who it was.

He's currently in 3rd place in our league, but easily within striking distance of winning it all.

30. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn)

Posted: September 13, 2008 at 05:55 PM (#2940220)

Opposing hitters' OPS, courtesy of BPro ...

Halladay - 0.764

Lee - 0.728

I'd probably lean toward Lee, but Halladay's faced tougher lineups. This one's a pick 'em.

31. Baldrick Posted: September 13, 2008 at 07:06 PM (#2940262)

Pitchers' ERAs, courtesy of math:

Halladay - 2.77
Lee - 2.36

Even more importantly, pitchers' RAs:

Halladay - 3.21
Lee - 2.53

This is not close. Sometimes the obvious answer is also the right one.

32. Vegas Watch

Posted: September 13, 2008 at 07:21 PM (#2940264)

How many R/G is a 36 point difference in OPS?

33. Vegas Watch

Posted: September 13, 2008 at 07:42 PM (#2940275)

I think it's about 0.45 R/G. Lee's park adjusted RA is 2.57, so let's bump that to 3.02. Halladay's is 3.19, we'll leave that. Replacement level for starters is...5.75 RA? (5.75-3.02)*(210/9) = 63.7 for Lee; (5.74-3.19)*(224/9) = 63.5 for Halladay.

Damn it. I was hoping to show that Lee is the clear winner. I have failed.

34. Vegas Watch

Posted: September 13, 2008 at 07:50 PM (#2940278)

Fwiw ...

Defensive Efficiency: TOR .710, CLE .698

Plus/Minus: TOR 64, CLE 20

Forgot about this. That +/- difference is 0.3 R/G. Oh boy.

(5.75-3.02+0.15)*(210/9) = 67.2 for Lee
(5.75-3.19-0.15)*(224/9) = 60.0 for Halladay

Victory!

35. Crispix Attacks Posted: September 13, 2008 at 08:22 PM (#2940299)

Five years ago the runs Halladay's given up would translate into a lot less American runs. He's getting screwed by the change in the exchange rates happening after he already committed to Canadian runs.

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MLB.com: [Cliff] Lee wins 22nd as Indians rout Royals

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