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Tuesday, September 02, 2008

MLB.com: Dominant [Cliff] Lee breaks 20-win mark/ AL Central race

[Cliff Lee] went the distance Monday in a 5-0 win over Chicago, becoming the first Indians pitcher in 34 years to win 20 games in a season. Gaylord Perry was the last Tribe pitcher to win 20 games when he went 21-13 in 1974.

“It has a nice ring to it,” said Lee, the front-runner for the American League’s Cy Young Award. “I like the sound of it.”

CHW 77-60
MIN 77-60
(both teams also 3 GB in wildcard race)

NTNgod Posted: September 02, 2008 at 03:50 AM | 37 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: indians, twins, white sox

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1. Bobby Bonilla's Annuity (Matt) Posted: September 02, 2008 at 04:14 AM (#2925534)

20-2. Not bad.

2. Chris Hansen, NBC Dateline Posted: September 02, 2008 at 04:18 AM (#2925536)

Cliff and Grady have been the only real bright spots for the team this year. Thanks again, Omar!

3. Esoteric Posted: September 02, 2008 at 04:21 AM (#2925538)

Screw you, GSC. (In a friendly fashion.)

And thanks for nothing, Omar.

4. Vegas Watch

Posted: September 02, 2008 at 04:27 AM (#2925545)

Best W% ever on a sub-.500 team (min. 20 decisions): Koufax, .792 (15-7), 1964.

.909>>.792

5. Russlan will never be fond of Jason Bay Posted: September 02, 2008 at 04:28 AM (#2925548)

Minaya hasn't been the GM for that franchise since 2004. He's hardly the reason things are still so bleak in Washington.

6. The Kids Are Enright (1k5v3L)

Posted: September 02, 2008 at 04:30 AM (#2925550)

Minaya's idiotic moves sure didn't help either

7. RJ in TO Posted: September 02, 2008 at 04:31 AM (#2925551)

Koufax, .792 (15-7), 1964.

How is 15-7 equal to .792?

8. cminsf Posted: September 02, 2008 at 04:35 AM (#2925554)

He was actually 19-5 that year, which is .792. Vegas Watch read the wrong columns. He had 15 complete games and 7 shutouts that year.

9. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: September 02, 2008 at 04:36 AM (#2925555)

How is 15-7 equal to .792?

The winning percentage is right, but the record was 19-5.

Edit: cminny beat me to it.

10. Posada Posse Posted: September 02, 2008 at 04:36 AM (#2925556)

What a sensational season. I don't think Lee has had any slumps or rough patches at all. Screw K-Rod, Lee should be an easy choice for the Cy Young.

11. Vegas Watch

Posted: September 02, 2008 at 04:38 AM (#2925559)

I'm dumb. The column titles didn't copy into Excel. My fault.

12. Hugh Jorgan Posted: September 02, 2008 at 04:59 AM (#2925571)

Screw K-Rod, Lee should be an easy choice for the Cy Young.

I couldn't agree with this more. It should be unanimous.

13. Jim (jimmuscomp) Posted: September 02, 2008 at 05:04 AM (#2925574)

Shoot, I'm an Angel fan and I'd give it to Ervin Santana before I'd give it to K-Rod. Of course, Lee should get every vote, but I'm just saying there is no way anyone other than Lee should get the award.

14. Random Transaction Generator Posted: September 02, 2008 at 05:33 AM (#2925594)

I couldn't agree with this more. It should be unanimous.

If Halladay gets 3-4 more wins, and throws a couple more complete games, he'll steal a few 1st place votes away (innings pitched, 20 game winner, complete games, sub-3 ERA).
But there is no reason why Lee (unless he absolutely TANKS in his last couple of starts) shouldn't get the Cy Young.

15. andrewberg Posted: September 02, 2008 at 06:06 AM (#2925606)

unless he absolutely TANKS in his last couple of starts

As in what, averaging 10 R per start? I think he's got it pretty well locked up. Thanks Cliffy and now onto Carmona for tomorrow...

16. Shock Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:06 AM (#2925636)

Again, he's the obvious frontrunner, but these comments saying it's "obvious" and that it's "locked up" are ridiculous. He still has five starts left. If he finishes 20-7 with a 2.60 ERA in 230 innings and Halladay finishes 21-9 with a 2.62 ERA in 250 innings is it still "unanimous?"

Cripes, one would think some of you guys have never watched baseball before. A lot can happen in a month.

He doesn't even have to "tank." If the rest of his starts are average-ish and he gets no run support, Doc could easily catch up.

Is Lee the favorite? Yes. Is he the obvious choice right now? Yes. Is it "locked up?" Not a ####### chance.

17. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: September 02, 2008 at 11:56 AM (#2925657)

Cripes, one would think some of you guys have never watched baseball before.

It's hard to get good reception when crunching stats down in our moms' basements.

18. Greg Pope Posted: September 02, 2008 at 12:34 PM (#2925674)

Is Lee the favorite? Yes. Is he the obvious choice right now? Yes. Is it "locked up?" Not a ####### chance.

I guess so, but Roger Clemens locked up the Cy Young in 2001 when he went 20-1 with great run support. Then he lost his last two decisions and Mulder and Moyer also won 20 games with better ERA's. Clemens still got the award in a landslide. The voters had already made up their minds.

19. Rants Mulliniks (formerly Cold Prosimian) Posted: September 02, 2008 at 01:53 PM (#2925710)

I agree with 18. I was holding out hope that Lee would falter and Halladay finish strong, but to win your 20th via a shutout, against only 2 losses, will pretty much cement the CYA for him in the minds of voters. Halladay is still the best pitcher in the league for my money, though.

20. Chase Utley, Shooty's Favorite Robot (Joey Belle) Posted: September 02, 2008 at 03:37 PM (#2925865)

Halladay is still the best pitcher in the league for my money, though.

Agreed. I really don't like the Jays, but I love to watch that man pitch.

21. Cris E Posted: September 02, 2008 at 04:39 PM (#2925948)

Not so fast: Lee might be a good choice if he were in a race, but he hasn't had to pitch under pressure and he's got what, 12 games against the Royals?

(Seriously, he's obviously having a tremendous year made all the more special by fact that the rest of the Indians haven't been putting together the type of season that lends itself to 20-2 records. He's the clear leader at this point. Lots of time for things to happen, but KRod shouldn't be the one to top him.)

22. Martin Hemner

Posted: September 02, 2008 at 04:52 PM (#2925970)

I wouldn't dismiss K-Rod just yet. In 1990, Bob Welch had 27 wins and Roger Clemens had 21 wins and a 1.93 ERA. Thigpen still got two first place votes...

23. The Kids Are Enright (1k5v3L)

Posted: September 02, 2008 at 05:50 PM (#2926043)

On his Insider blog, Peter Gammons writes that the Dbacks talked to CHA, CLE and BOS when they shopped Quentin around. The Dbacks and Indians couldn't work out a deal of Quentin for Cliff Lee.

A question for Indians fans: going forward (next 5 years), whom would you rather have, Quentin or Lee?

24. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: September 02, 2008 at 06:26 PM (#2926085)

I would take Quentin since batters are more projectable.

25. David Wrightwing obstructionist Posted: September 02, 2008 at 07:17 PM (#2926163)

On ESPNs front page their is voting for the AL Cy Young, Lee leads overwhelming, but Halladay currently trails Dice-K and F-Rod

26. Kyle S at work Posted: September 02, 2008 at 07:49 PM (#2926208)

Check out Lee's career winning percentage and career ERA+. I'd be surprised if there are too many more people with a bigger discrepancy in the history of baseball among pitchers with at least 100 decisions. Career WP% tends to be pretty strongly correlated with career ERA+ among starters. With a 106 ERA+, you'd expect maybe .540-.550, right? Instead, he's got .661. I'd bet that's two or three standard deviations above average.

27. Rusty Priske Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:04 PM (#2926236)

Lee is the obvious front runner and Doc is the obvious 'other guy to talk about'.

If K-Rod were to win it would be a travesty.

28. Long John McCaine Mutiny on the Bounty (scott) Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:13 PM (#2926250)

Dice-K has a 160 ERA+. His periphs don't match, but i can see him in the running for second best along with Doc. K-Rod isn't even in the conversation.

29. DCA Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:23 PM (#2926262)

A question for Indians fans: going forward (next 5 years), whom would you rather have, Quentin or Lee?

I'm not an Indians fan, but I think I'd rather have Lee for the next five years (of course, in real life I'd rather have Quentin, he's under control longer, and at sub-market-rate too). Lee's been so consistently good all season that I think he's figured something out, and will remain good -- probably not this good, but maybe 130-140 ERA+ good -- for the next few years.

30. PJ Martinez Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:30 PM (#2926272)

Funny that the Indians have the best pitcher and the best position player in the AL and they don't have a winning record. How often has that happened, I wonder?

31. Melo's Love Handles (NJ) Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:32 PM (#2926275)

Lee's been so consistently good all season that I think he's figured something out, and will remain good -- probably not this good, but maybe 130-140 ERA+ good -- for the next few years.

They said the same thing about Esteban Loaiza too.

32. SoSH U at work Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:35 PM (#2926278)

Funny that the Indians have the best pitcher and the best position player in the AL and they don't have a winning record. How often has that happened, I wonder?

Hell they also had the NL's best pitcher for half the season.

33. The Kids Are Enright (1k5v3L)

Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:42 PM (#2926281)

Lee's been so consistently good all season that I think he's figured something out, and will remain good -- probably not this good, but maybe 130-140 ERA+ good -- for the next few years.

You mean exactly like Esteban Loaiza followed up his 2003 season with several Cy Young winning campaigns?

[Edit] Damn, NJ in DC... I owe you something...

34. Melo's Love Handles (NJ) Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:53 PM (#2926293)

levski, I will settle for an explanation of why my Torts professor has chosen his current tangent.

Who here, if they were GM, would trade Lee?

35. The Kids Are Enright (1k5v3L)

Posted: September 02, 2008 at 08:56 PM (#2926301)

Who here, if they were GM, would trade Lee?

A really smart person?
Along those lines though, who here, if they were GM, would trade Quentin?
Or who would trade Lee for Quentin, or Quentin for Lee?
And, more interestingly, who would provide better value from 2009 on, Lee or Quentin?

36. Misirlou's got a busy day, he's wearing a vest Posted: September 02, 2008 at 09:01 PM (#2926306)

Best W% ever on a sub-.500 team (min. 20 decisions): Koufax, .792 (15-7), 1964.

.909>>.792

Funny that the Indians have the best pitcher and the best position player in the AL and they don't have a winning record. How often has that happened, I wonder?

Easy now. There's still a month to go and the Indians are only 4 games under.

As to the second, the 1992 Cubs came close. Maddux won the CYA, and though Bonds was a better player, Sandberg had a "Chase Utley robbed of the 2007 MVP but with 30 more games played" kind of season.

37. Walt Davis Posted: September 03, 2008 at 07:43 AM (#2927104)

Best W% ever on a sub-.500 team (min. 20 decisions): Koufax, .792 (15-7), 1964.

.909>>.792

Don't count your sub-500 records before they hatch. I'm starting to think they're gonna pull a Rockies.

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Tuesday, September 02, 2008

MLB.com: Dominant [Cliff] Lee breaks 20-win mark/ AL Central race

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