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Tuesday, December 11, 2012

MLBTR: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo in three-team deal

Gregorius… yeah… Sipp, Anderson, hey I remember Anderson… WHUHUH??

The Diamondbacks announced that they have acquired shortstop Didi Gregorius, left-handed pitcher Tony Sipp, and first baseman Lars Anderson from the Indians in exchange for right-handed pitchers Trevor Bauer, Matt Albers and Bryan Shaw.  The Reds are receiving Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald in the swap.

Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: December 11, 2012 at 10:35 PM | 157 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: diamondbacks, indians, reds, shin-soo choo, trades, transactions, trevor bauer

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   1. SG Posted: December 11, 2012 at 10:42 PM (#4322516)
This seems like an awful trade for Arizona.
   2. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: December 11, 2012 at 10:47 PM (#4322525)
Arizona must really love Didi's glove. Doesn't Kevin Towers have a really good trade history?
   3. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: December 11, 2012 at 10:51 PM (#4322528)
I like this trade for Cincinnati, but it's interesting that they're turning their back on OF defense with either Choo or Bruce moving to CF.
   4. BourbonSamurai Is a Lazy Nogoodnik Posted: December 11, 2012 at 10:51 PM (#4322529)
this seems like a killer deal for the reds from my limited perspective
   5. Repoz Posted: December 11, 2012 at 10:51 PM (#4322530)
A Didi con job.
   6. robinred Posted: December 11, 2012 at 10:52 PM (#4322531)
Cool. I like Choo.
   7. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: December 11, 2012 at 10:55 PM (#4322535)
the reds 2012 was based on defense and pitching. all they needed was for votto to play 150 games and the offense will be better.

walt surprises me with this deal
   8. Shoebo Posted: December 11, 2012 at 10:57 PM (#4322536)
Dayton Moore, move over. There is a new Sherrif in town and his name is The Gunslinger !!

   9. Shoebo Posted: December 11, 2012 at 11:00 PM (#4322540)
#Dbacks Towers on Gregorious “He’s athletic. He reminded me of a young Derek Jeter.”

— Steve Gilbert (@SteveGilbertMLB) December 12, 2012


Well...other than the fact that one is all bat no glove and the other is all glove no bat....um...yeah....good comp.
   10. Jorge Luis Bourjos (Walewander) Posted: December 11, 2012 at 11:04 PM (#4322543)

WTF is Towers smoking?
   11. zonk Posted: December 11, 2012 at 11:10 PM (#4322547)
Jeebus...

Is it legal for two GMs to hold a third GM down and steal his lunch money, then divide the spoils between them?

   12. JJ1986 Posted: December 11, 2012 at 11:11 PM (#4322548)
So, if he didn't want Cliff Pennington to play SS, why did Towers give up value for him?
   13. Derb Posted: December 11, 2012 at 11:20 PM (#4322552)
Great trade for Cleveland and Cincinnati, bad trade for the D-Backs. I like Didi, but he shouldn't the main piece you get back in a trade like this.
   14. Esoteric Posted: December 11, 2012 at 11:24 PM (#4322554)
Biggest winner of this trade: Dayton Moore.
   15. Shoebo Posted: December 11, 2012 at 11:24 PM (#4322555)
@mlbdepthcharts:
Kevin Towers has traded Chris Young, Trevor Bauer, Matt Albers, Bryan Shaw for 2 SS’s that can’t hit, Tony Sipp, and Lars Anderson. #Dbacks


Sigh......
   16. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: December 11, 2012 at 11:25 PM (#4322556)
This is a FAR worse trade than Shields/Myers.
   17. BourbonSamurai Is a Lazy Nogoodnik Posted: December 11, 2012 at 11:28 PM (#4322558)
this is very confusing and can't be right. I feel like the dbacks have been 3 card monte'd.
   18. Esoteric Posted: December 11, 2012 at 11:32 PM (#4322564)
This is a FAR worse trade than Shields/Myers.
Hence #14.

Somewhere Brandon McCarthy is channeling David Byrne and saying to himself "MY GOD, WHAT HAVE I DONE?"
   19. RJ in TO Posted: December 11, 2012 at 11:33 PM (#4322566)
Biggest winner of this trade: Dayton Moore.

This is extremely true.
   20. Brian White Posted: December 11, 2012 at 11:35 PM (#4322567)
It appears that Drew Stubbs is also involved, going to Cleveland in this trade. Reds are getting $3.5m in cash from the Indians.

Link

It's sort of mentioned in the article - they drop Stubbs' name in there at one random spot, but don't list him among the acquisitions.
   21. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: December 11, 2012 at 11:37 PM (#4322571)
so the reds get paid by the indians to scr8w the diamondbacks?

that jsut seems......unseemly
   22. Shoebo Posted: December 11, 2012 at 11:42 PM (#4322576)
Jay Jaffe?@jay_jaffe
In their quest to accumulate light-hitting shortstops at any cost, the Diamondbacks have traded Justin Upton to 1997 for Pokey Reese.
   23. JRVJ Posted: December 11, 2012 at 11:49 PM (#4322578)
If this trade is really as described (and after the reported Myers for Anderson/Myers for Niese & Wheeler and the actual Myers/Shield trade), this would seem to hint that talent valuation in the 2012-2013 baseball offseason is..... odd.

   24. Shoebo Posted: December 11, 2012 at 11:49 PM (#4322579)
D Backs Owners says Bauer needs to Grow up and Mature

and

Follow up in November

This kind of stuff in public REALLY helps trade value, huh ?
   25. Red Menace Posted: December 11, 2012 at 11:55 PM (#4322582)
This nicely Dusty-proofs the lineup. If Choo leads off the difference between him and Stubbs is about as great as you can do with marginal lineup shuffling value creation.
   26. Esoteric Posted: December 11, 2012 at 11:55 PM (#4322583)
so the reds get paid by the indians to scr8w the diamondbacks?

that jsut seems......unseemly
And you thought prostitution was illegal...
   27. Poster Nutbag Posted: December 12, 2012 at 12:03 AM (#4322585)
If this trade is really as described (and after the reported Myers for Anderson/Myers for Niese & Wheeler and the actual Myers/Shield trade), this would seem to hint that talent valuation in the 2012-2013 baseball offseason is..... odd.


Agreed....I can't peg anyone's ####### market value anymore!
   28. vortex of dissipation Posted: December 12, 2012 at 12:05 AM (#4322586)
I think Choo is a fine hitter, with the type of OBP skills the Reds need. But I'm confused as to where he'd play. Jay Bruce is a fixture in right, and the Reds just re-signed Ryan Ludwick to play left on Monday. Joey Votto is at first, and he obviously isn't moving. Supposedly Choo is going to play center field, but he's not a center fielder. The Mariners played him in center for nine games there when he came up, and he was awful. And that was seven years ago. He's played exactly one game in center since 2006. So if the Reds are counting on him to play center field, they're being overly optomistic.
   29. hokieneer Posted: December 12, 2012 at 12:05 AM (#4322587)
Choo
Phillips
Votto
Ludwick
Bruce
Frazier
Hannigan
Cozart

I like that. Choo fits in perfectly. Not sure about Bruce/Choo playing CF. Honestly I'm a little terrified. Bruce did play more CF than RF in the minors, and played in CF some his rookie year. That was a while ago. In road interleague, Ludwick can slide to DH with Heisey playing CF.

Didn't want to lose Didi, but he will likely never hit enough to earn an everyday job. Of course Cozart isn't exactly a Silver Slugger.

WIsh Stubbs the best of luck. He needed out of Cincinnati. If he ever had a chance to recover and be productive, it wasn't going to be in Cincinnati.
   30. andrewberg Posted: December 12, 2012 at 12:10 AM (#4322590)
When I saw these rumors floating around, I thought "why is everyone being so hard on KC? THIS is what a bad trade looks like."

Now I could end up being dead wrong about Gregorious or Bauer, but simply looking at the market for pitching prospects and IF with no bad tells me that there was a better way to deploy those resources. KC had a plan to cash in prospects for current stars. They executed it in a way that did not maximize value, but it is a plan that can work. Arizona appears to have decided to trade Bauer for a SS without paying much attention to which SS.
   31. Squash Posted: December 12, 2012 at 12:18 AM (#4322596)
Yeah this is a weird one. There are two worthwhile pieces in this deal and a bunch of slop - if the D'Backs are giving up one of those two worthwhile pieces, why are they not insisting on getting the other one back?

If this trade is really as described (and after the reported Myers for Anderson/Myers for Niese & Wheeler and the actual Myers/Shield trade), this would seem to hint that talent valuation in the 2012-2013 baseball offseason is..... odd.

Apparently now's the time, if you have a pretty decent veteran nearing the end of his contract, to unload him and get an A prospect back.
   32. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: December 12, 2012 at 12:19 AM (#4322597)
Every time I try to come up with anexample of a LOOGY I find people saying "He's not really a LOOGY, he's just a lefty reliever." Tony Sipp is the go-to example I can say is absolutely a LOOGY, no question about it.
   33. JE (Jason Epstein) Posted: December 12, 2012 at 12:31 AM (#4322603)
So Choo is a one-year rental, right? Are the Reds confident that Hamilton will be ready for the majors on Opening Day '14?
   34. Steve Sparks Flying Everywhere Posted: December 12, 2012 at 12:46 AM (#4322613)
So I get Didi Gregorius from the Reds but don't actually trade any players to the Reds? It's like getting a player for free!

I can only assume this was the mindset of Towers as he contemplated this trade.
   35. charityslave is thinking about baseball Posted: December 12, 2012 at 12:46 AM (#4322614)
Now, the Reds move the centerfield fence in 100 feet are so, and it's hello World Series!
   36. Eric P. Posted: December 12, 2012 at 12:49 AM (#4322617)
Every time I try to come up with anexample of a LOOGY I find people saying "He's not really a LOOGY, he's just a lefty reliever." Tony Sipp is the go-to example I can say is absolutely a LOOGY, no question about it.


Career vs LHB: .215/.292/.414
Career vs RHB: .209/.324/.403
   37. charityslave is thinking about baseball Posted: December 12, 2012 at 12:55 AM (#4322622)
Every time I try to come up with anexample of a LOOGY I find people saying "He's not really a LOOGY, he's just a lefty reliever."



Career vs LHB: .215/.292/.414
Career vs RHB: .209/.324/.403


Like you said: every time.
   38. charityslave is thinking about baseball Posted: December 12, 2012 at 12:59 AM (#4322628)
So Choo is a one-year rental, right? Are the Reds confident that Hamilton will be ready for the majors on Opening Day '14?


This may just be a plot to make a rushed up Hamilton look great when compared to Choo and/or Bruce flailing away in centerfield. Suddenly a weak hitting, defense first center fielder won't look so bad.
   39. SoSH U at work Posted: December 12, 2012 at 01:01 AM (#4322629)
Every time I try to come up with anexample of a LOOGY I find people saying "He's not really a LOOGY, he's just a lefty reliever." Tony Sipp is the go-to example I can say is absolutely a LOOGY, no question about it.


Does he have to be active? Because I find Tony Fossas really fits the LOOGY bill nicely.
   40. billyshears Posted: December 12, 2012 at 01:08 AM (#4322635)
Were the Mets all that attached to Reuben Tejada? He has to be more valuable than some random shortstop I've only vaguely heard of and who is apparently the same age and had about the same OPS except in AA. I'd trade Tejada for Bauer in a heartbeat.
   41. Barnaby Jones Posted: December 12, 2012 at 01:11 AM (#4322637)
If he can be inactive, I nominate Ray "Burger" King:

RHB: .279/.374/.434
LHB: .214/.284/.314
   42. hokieneer Posted: December 12, 2012 at 01:14 AM (#4322639)
Reds leadoff hitters in 2012: .208/.254/.327
Drew Stubbs in 2012: .213/.277/.333
Drew Stubbs 09-12: .238/.311/.380

Choo career: .283/.373/.441 .. not in GABP

I hope Bruce or Choo one can play a serviceable CF.

Plus Donald has to be an upgrade at the UT IF spot over the Cairo/Valdez combo the Reds gave a combined 360 PA to last year.
   43. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: December 12, 2012 at 01:21 AM (#4322643)
Clay Rapada.
Career vs RHB: .342/.459/.613
Career vs LHB: .168/.257/.236

Only 91 IP, but of course a true LOOGY won't rack up innings very fast.
   44. PreservedFish Posted: December 12, 2012 at 01:24 AM (#4322645)
The true measure of a LOOGY is IP:G ratio. Tony Sipp has pitched in 248 games and 220 innings. Mike Myers, my nomination for ideal LOOGY, pitched in 883 games but only racked up 541 innings.
   45. lonestarball Posted: December 12, 2012 at 01:26 AM (#4322648)
Randy Choate

RHB: .279/.404/.401
LHB: .201/.278/.284

309 career innings.
   46. Barnaby Jones Posted: December 12, 2012 at 01:27 AM (#4322651)
Geez, that Rapada line is basically the Platonic form of a LOOGY, right there. Another current guy is Wesley Wright.
   47. PreservedFish Posted: December 12, 2012 at 01:46 AM (#4322662)
How many pitchers have ever had a ratio of Batters Faced to Games lower than 2:1? I see that Jesse Orosco did it in 2001, but in only 35 games (16 IP), back when he basically only existed because he was thought to have Barry Bonds' number. Rapada and Myers both got close a couple times.
   48. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: December 12, 2012 at 01:47 AM (#4322664)
Towers had Stephen Drew. He trades Drew for nothing. He replaces Drew by trading Bauer, Young, Shaw and Albers for Gregorius and Pennington? Why not just keep Drew?
   49. Austin Posted: December 12, 2012 at 02:03 AM (#4322670)
These three-way trades always give me a headache, so let me lay it out, mostly for my own sake.

Diamondbacks
Give up: Bauer, Albers, Shaw
Receive: Gregorius, Sipp, Anderson

Indians
Give up: Choo, Donald, Sipp, Anderson, $3.5M
Receive: Bauer, Stubbs, Albers, Shaw

Reds
Give up: Gregorius, Stubbs
Receive: Choo, Donald, $3.5M

Holy moley, that really looks lopsided, doesn't it? Cleveland and Cincinnati look like moderate winners, and Arizona looks like it got hosed. Bauer is no longer an elite prospect, but nevertheless, Gregorius had better be a damned good defender if he's going to have any chance of making the trade worthwhile for Arizona.
   50. Jim (jimmuscomp) Posted: December 12, 2012 at 02:08 AM (#4322672)
Holy Crap - #48 is one depressing take on the last six months for the D-backs.

True, but depressing.
   51. cmd600 Posted: December 12, 2012 at 02:42 AM (#4322685)
Bauer is no longer an elite prospect


Really? I know about the workout thing and issues with the front office, but I think what he did as a 21 year old in the upper minors has only increased his status in my book.
   52. Walt Davis Posted: December 12, 2012 at 02:44 AM (#4322686)
walt surprises me with this deal

Thanks Harv ... I try to keep a little mystery in every relationship.

Ohhh, Jocketty.

Also, what is Lars Anderson doing in this trade? They have Goldschmidt at 1B, Kubel in LF and Upton (until he's traded for Grant Green) in RF.
   53. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: December 12, 2012 at 03:09 AM (#4322695)
Upton (until he's traded for Grant Green)

Huzzah!
   54. puck Posted: December 12, 2012 at 03:49 AM (#4322704)
Geez, that Rapada line is basically the Platonic form of a LOOGY, right there. Another current guy is Wesley Wright.

Javier Lopez.
Rzepczynski and Boone Logan seem to get used as LOOGY's by their current teams.
   55. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: December 12, 2012 at 05:02 AM (#4322710)
Really not following this from Arizona's point of view. I mean Gregorius is prospectish a little. If he could somehow slap his way to a .255/.305/.370 in Arizona with a good glove that would be something. But although Bauer has any number of concerns that would downgrade him from an elite prospect, the starting point is still "elite prospect" that you're downgrading from. Does Tony Sipp really close the gap from there? Christ, you traded Breslow to get Albers and Podsednik (whom you promptly released), couldn't you have just kept Breslow and not needed Sipp? I won't even bother bringing up the below average AAA first baseman they got in the deal.

Just don't make a whole lot of sense, unless they really think Gregorius is just going to go nuclear.
   56. zachtoma Posted: December 12, 2012 at 06:04 AM (#4322715)
I hear Gregorious was acquired mainly for clubhouse reasons. They expect he'll be a good chemistry guy and help erase the bitterness left by last year's shortstop, Tom Taciturn.
   57. Non-Youkilidian Geometry Posted: December 12, 2012 at 08:43 AM (#4322728)
If I had the authority to award Primeys, I would give one to #56.
   58. Shoebo Posted: December 12, 2012 at 08:55 AM (#4322733)
Just don't make a whole lot of sense, unless they really think Gregorius is just going to go nuclear.


Towers is comparing him to Jeter. I kid you not.

   59. Shoebo Posted: December 12, 2012 at 08:58 AM (#4322734)
Towers had Stephen Drew. He trades Drew for nothing. He replaces Drew by trading Bauer, Young, Shaw and Albers for Gregorius and Pennington? Why not just keep Drew?


Because the owner went public and called Drew out for prolonging his rehab because he thought Drew didn't want to play. Directly called his character into question, even used that word. So that bridge was burned. There is no way Drew would have resigned with Arizona after that.
   60. Shoebo Posted: December 12, 2012 at 08:59 AM (#4322735)
And I know some of you won't like this statement, but it's times like this I really miss Levski. He would have something both scathing and funny to say.
   61. Jorge Luis Bourjos (Walewander) Posted: December 12, 2012 at 09:16 AM (#4322742)

Primey for 56. Tom Taciturn was a cancer in the clubhouse!
   62. Rants Mulliniks Posted: December 12, 2012 at 09:18 AM (#4322744)
Levski


Haven't heard that same in a long time.

I liked #56 as well - it took me a second, but I LOLed.

The Pennington trade and this one almost make it seem like Towers is, well, on crack. I really don't understand how Bauer's star could have fallen so fast.
   63. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: December 12, 2012 at 09:35 AM (#4322753)
You know, I can squint and defend the Myers-Shields trade as I think Shields is better than he gets credit for and Myers isn't the slam dunk he's made out to be. I wouldn't have done it, but I can squint and see it. This trade, from the D-Backs perspective, is just so stupid. Just baffling. I only wish the A's had been in on this.
   64. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: December 12, 2012 at 09:52 AM (#4322770)
Towers seems like a good GM, but I don't get this trade. Bauer was a bit of a letdown in his MLB stint, but he's still only 21, and it's not like the D-Backs are in flat-out "win-now" mode. And Lars Anderson plays 1B where he's blocked by Goldschmidt.
   65. TDF, situational idiot Posted: December 12, 2012 at 09:55 AM (#4322773)
I really wanted Stubbs to be great, and after he had a 105 OPS+ with good defense and baserunning in '10 I thought 2/3 of the outfield was set for a decade, but he's regressed terribly since then.

Honestly, they talk about Choo being a 1 year rental but if Hamilton's ready Stubbs probably would have been non-tendered after this year. Add in the fact that Gregorious might never hit enough to be an everyday player and that McDonald could contract malaria and still be a better bench IF than the Reds had this year and I really like this trade.
   66. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: December 12, 2012 at 10:00 AM (#4322781)
The Orioles should offer JJ Hardy for Goldschmidt and Upton.
   67. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: December 12, 2012 at 10:03 AM (#4322783)
Bauer just put up a 2.85 ERA in the PCL with a ton of strikeouts. He looks like a pretty damn good prospect.
   68. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 12, 2012 at 10:04 AM (#4322784)

Really? I know about the workout thing and issues with the front office, but I think what he did as a 21 year old in the upper minors has only increased his status in my book.


Concur, almost 11 K/9 and a low 2's ERA across AA/AAA should help your status.

He had 16 ugly innings in the bigs, but, it's 16 IP.

Edit: just to add, this trade is so lopsided the commissioner should veto it (that is if there was a real commissioner).
   69. PreservedFish Posted: December 12, 2012 at 10:17 AM (#4322790)
Does the name "Gregorius" strike anyone else as being really sinister? "Gregarious" means nice, but changing that one vowel sound makes the word kind of sneakily evil. Sounds like the name of one of the neighbors in Rosemary's Baby or something.
   70. Rants Mulliniks Posted: December 12, 2012 at 10:20 AM (#4322794)
He should use an Enigma song for his entrance music.
   71. Esoteric Posted: December 12, 2012 at 10:35 AM (#4322804)
#56 may be one of my favorite posts around here in ages. More than even the joke, I just love the name Tom Taciturn. Sounds almost like he could be a real player from the '30s.
   72. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 12, 2012 at 10:36 AM (#4322805)
Choo would only play CF for a year, presumably, before Billy Hamilton is ready.

The DBacks trading Bauer for Gregorious is baffling. AND they tossed in Shaw, who I think is at least useful, and received Lars Andersen, who I think is not.
   73. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 12, 2012 at 10:38 AM (#4322808)
He should use an Enigma song for his entrance music.

Nah, have the song "Notorius" over-dubbed with "Gre-, Gre-, Gre-, Gregorius, dah dah dah dah dah"
   74. Ok, Griffey's Dunn (Nothing Iffey About Griffey) Posted: December 12, 2012 at 10:41 AM (#4322811)
this seems like a killer deal for the reds from my limited perspective


I love this deal for the Reds. It's basically a straight up swap of Stubbs for Choo with the money evened out for 2013. Even if the Reds centerfielders end up being 30 runs worse than Stubbs would have been out there, it's still should be a net positive for them. Stubbs was completely and horribly lost last year at the plate. Plus, we won't have to listen to the Brennaman's ##### about the strikeouts (this seemed to encompass about 25% of a typical Reds tv broadcast), so, even those will be more enjoyable.
   75. Tom Nawrocki Posted: December 12, 2012 at 10:41 AM (#4322812)
I think the general rule of a threeway is that one person always ends up terribly disappointed.
   76. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 12, 2012 at 10:43 AM (#4322816)

Also, what is Lars Anderson doing in this trade? They have Goldschmidt at 1B, Kubel in LF and Upton (until he's traded for Grant Green) in RF.


Because Reno needs a 1B. Lars is not a MLB player.
   77. Ok, Griffey's Dunn (Nothing Iffey About Griffey) Posted: December 12, 2012 at 10:55 AM (#4322830)
With #75, we have two primey worthy posts... I like #73 also.
   78. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: December 12, 2012 at 11:03 AM (#4322839)
I'm not sure Anderson is even blocked by Goldschmidt, in that even if the DBacks had no one to play first base it's not like Anderson looks like any kind of solution to that problem. The guy has a .770 OPS in 1500 AAA PAs (Ryan Lavarnway had a .893 on the same clubs). If Anderson is your team's best first baseman, then your real best first baseman is Brad Eldred or Mauro Gomez or Dan Johnson or a similar other vet minor league slugger you can find.
   79. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: December 12, 2012 at 11:06 AM (#4322842)
I think the general rule of a threeway is that one person always ends up terribly disappointed.


I guess that is the nice way of putting it. I had always heard someone always ends up getting ####ed over.
   80. 1k5v3L Posted: December 12, 2012 at 11:22 AM (#4322859)
And I know some of you won't like this statement, but it's times like this I really miss Levski. He would have something both scathing and funny to say.

Ha. Thanks, shoewiz. Unfortunately, I have neither. When you approach the baseball world with the soft bigotry of the low expectation that Kevin Towers is basically incompetent, you are never unpleasantly surprised. The vast majority of his transactions in Arizona have confirmed to me that he is a fire-breathing, myopic and impulsive hack, whose idea for team building seems to revolve around (1) overpaying mutiple random right handers in the bullpen, (2) collecting a gaggle of some glove, no bat, futility infielders, and (3) dumping minor leaguers who weren't/aren't his prospects to satisfy fetishes (1) and (2). Luckily for him, the two main owners in Arizona (Kendrick and Hall) are even more ignorant about baseball, yet think that they are the smartest people to ever walk south of the Grand Canyon.

Basically the tragedy with the Dbacks began the day Kendrick and Hall decided to go with Towers instead of Jerry Dipoto as their GM. Dipoto had done some great work in his short amount of time as the interim GM, and I believe he had a long term plan in place, to build around the young pitchers he had in place. Dipoto was a big Jarrod Parker fan, and he also was the biggest Trevor Bauer supporter in the organization. Once Dipoto went to Anaheim, it was all Towers, all the time, in Arizona, and the results have been sadly predictable. The Parker and Cook for Cahill trade was a disaster, and the Bauer for Gregorius dump was as predictable as a sunrise. All the Towers comments on the trade and on Gregorius would be ridiculously funny if they weren't actually scary, because he truly believes in the stuff he's saying.

Luckily, over the last couple of years I've managed to sufficiently detach myself from baseball in general, and the Dbacks in particular, so I was able to read the news of yesterday's disaster with a healty dose of morbid curiosity and a modicum of heart-felt pity for the few remaining intelligent Dbacks fans, like shoewizard. Those few smart fans should have known to jump ship a long time ago, when Towers came on board, so they should have very little reason to complain too much today. In their honor, in light of yesterday's pathetically awful trade, I dedicate this Gregorius chant. "Pious Lord Jesus, give them rest."
   81. 1k5v3L Posted: December 12, 2012 at 11:32 AM (#4322878)
In case you guys want to look into the intellectual abyss ruling the Dbacks these days, have a stroll along these Twitter timelines

@Dbacks
@SteveGilbertMLB
@JackMagruder

The Dbacks organization is a train-wreck that reminds me of the sad days when they began dismantling the 2001 Championship team.
   82. JJ1986 Posted: December 12, 2012 at 11:36 AM (#4322885)
So, are you a Mets fan now instead?
   83. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 12, 2012 at 11:43 AM (#4322895)
So, are you a Mets fan now instead?

He's going to jump off a runaway train onto the Hindenburg?
   84. 1k5v3L Posted: December 12, 2012 at 11:53 AM (#4322910)
I've slowly adopted the A's, actually, not to the point where I live and breathe A's baseball, but I wish them well and hope to see them succeed. They have so many former Dbacks players that I like, it almost feels like they are they team I must follow after all. If only they had held out for Bauer when they traded Pennington...
   85. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: December 12, 2012 at 12:08 PM (#4322930)
When Jeter was Gregorius' age, he hit .314 with an .800 OPS for the Yankees. Gregorius hit .265 with a .717 OPS split between AA and AAA. Having trouble seeing the comp there.

BTW, as much as Didi Gregorius is a great name, if he went by his middle name 'Julius Gregorius' that might be a top 10 name in baseball history.
   86. The District Attorney Posted: December 12, 2012 at 12:14 PM (#4322941)
Were the Mets all that attached to Reuben Tejada? He has to be more valuable than some random shortstop I've only vaguely heard of and who is apparently the same age and had about the same OPS except in AA. I'd trade Tejada for Bauer in a heartbeat.
I might not, actually. But how about Jose Iglesias? I mean, if Arizona wanted a glove-only SS...
   87. 1k5v3L Posted: December 12, 2012 at 12:15 PM (#4322944)
When Jeter was Gregorius' age, he hit .314 with an .800 OPS for the Yankees. Gregorius hit .265 with a .717 OPS split between AA and AAA. Having trouble seeing the comp there.
You don't justify your trade to your bosses by telling them that you acquired a younger version of Pokey Reese.

In all fairness, probably a reasonable comp/upside for Gregorius, assuming his glove is for real, is Alcides Escobar.

I have a really hard time getting excited about trading Trevor Bauer for a guy who one day may be Alcides Escobar.
   88. 1k5v3L Posted: December 12, 2012 at 12:24 PM (#4322954)
Also, apparently Gregorius's stock really jumped in the AFL this fall, where he slashed .284/.332/.392 over 20 games (74 AB). Lots of scouts fell in love with his tools, and my guess is that whoever is distributing drugs in the Dbacks front office developed a big mancrush on him. Plus, Towers had to dump Bauer somehow, seeing how Bauer's presence in the organization was apparently chafing him for some reason. In the end, the Indians and Reds benefitted tremendously, so bully for them.
   89. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: December 12, 2012 at 12:28 PM (#4322963)
BTW, as much as Didi Gregorius is a great name, if he went by his middle name 'Julius Gregorius' that might be a top 10 name in baseball history.

He might get mixed up on which calendar to use.
   90. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: December 12, 2012 at 12:42 PM (#4322977)
And I know some of you won't like this statement, but it's times like this I really miss Levski

Why wouldn't anyone like this statement? I've always thought he was pretty knowledgeable.
   91. Danny Posted: December 12, 2012 at 12:53 PM (#4323000)
Maybe it's just the name, but Gregorius reminds me of Gregorio Petit.
   92. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: December 12, 2012 at 12:53 PM (#4323001)
I think only Mets fans might regret the return of the prodigal Levski!
   93. Der-K: Hipster doofus Posted: December 12, 2012 at 12:55 PM (#4323003)
levski, i understand your pain - as a fan of orgs that, for the most, have historically been bad and - more importantly for the purposes of this comment - run their affairs in a way that's very different from how the model of how i like to see things done. (mind you, i'm a braves fan, so it ain't all bad.) things'll get better. eventually. probably.
dipoto does seem like a pretty big loss - i was (and am) impressed by him.
   94. Squash Posted: December 12, 2012 at 01:06 PM (#4323018)
All I know is the Arizona front office sure showed Bauer. Next time he'll know to listen when they say something!
   95. 1k5v3L Posted: December 12, 2012 at 01:12 PM (#4323023)
Thank you, IGoHK.

Shooty, I have no beef with Mets fan. They have been handed a raw deal, with broke and incompetent ownership and still a fairly barren system. But their GM is smart and I think the Mets will be OK sooner than most people think, especially given some of the higher upside pitching prospects they have. I don't get the haggling with Dickey over a few pennies but that will get sorted soon.

Der K, I think the decision to go with Towers really came down to Kendrick and Hall wanting to have a GM who would actually let them play with the big kids in the executive office. Personally, I believe that Josh Byrnes treated them like the ridiculous baseball n00bs they are, which was OK when Jeff Moorad was on board but backfired once Jeff Moorad left and the Dbacks struggled.

Picking Dipoto as the GM would have required baseball balls and brains that I don't believe Kendrick and Hall actually possess. I was hoping that Dipoto could work with, or at least coexist with, Towers, but that wasn't going to work. I believe Dipoto clashed with Towers and Gibson over management of prospects, most notably Bauer. You can draw your own conclusions on those clashes.
   96. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: December 12, 2012 at 01:15 PM (#4323030)
Shooty, I have no beef with Mets fan. They have been handed a raw deal, with broke and incompetent ownership and still a fairly barren system. But their GM is smart and I think the Mets will be OK sooner than most people think, especially given some of the higher upside pitching prospects they have. I don't get the haggling with Dickey over a few pennies but that will get sorted soon.

I was just joking. You knew how to hit those sore spots in Mets threads back in the day, though!
   97. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: December 12, 2012 at 01:34 PM (#4323051)
Dave Cameron really hates Trevor Bauer for reasons I don't quite understand. I get the feeling he spoke to someone in the D-Backs org that convinced him Bauer is an asshat and not that good anyway. He needs to work on his command, but his walk rate isn't that ugly for a young pitcher. As for being an asshat...the D-Backs sure tar a lot of their own players with that brush. It is kind of weird.
   98. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 12, 2012 at 01:37 PM (#4323057)
Dave Cameron really hates Trevor Bauer for reasons I don't quite understand. I get the feeling he spoke to someone in the D-Backs org that convinced him Bauer is an asshat and not that good anyway. He needs to work on his command, but his walk rate isn't that ugly for a young pitcher. As for being an asshat...the D-Backs sure tar a lot of their own players with that brush. It is kind of weird.

The next guy who fails at pitching b/c he's an ass**** will be the first.
   99. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: December 12, 2012 at 01:41 PM (#4323067)
The next guy who fails at pitching b/c he's an ass**** will be the first.

Plus, we're only getting the team's side of the story on Bauer's alleged asshattery. Again, the D-Backs seem to have a low treshhold for what they consider a bad attitude.
   100. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 12, 2012 at 01:58 PM (#4323089)
Regardless of whether Bauer is an asshat with poor command, he was a Top 10 prospect last winter. You don't trade him for the 6th best prospect in the Reds organization.
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