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Baseball Primer Newsblog— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand
Tuesday, December 11, 2012
Gregorius… yeah… Sipp, Anderson, hey I remember Anderson… WHUHUH?? The Diamondbacks announced that they have acquired shortstop Didi Gregorius, left-handed pitcher Tony Sipp, and first baseman Lars Anderson from the Indians in exchange for right-handed pitchers Trevor Bauer, Matt Albers and Bryan Shaw. The Reds are receiving Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald in the swap.
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walt surprises me with this deal
Well...other than the fact that one is all bat no glove and the other is all glove no bat....um...yeah....good comp.
WTF is Towers smoking?
Is it legal for two GMs to hold a third GM down and steal his lunch money, then divide the spoils between them?
Sigh......
Somewhere Brandon McCarthy is channeling David Byrne and saying to himself "MY GOD, WHAT HAVE I DONE?"
This is extremely true.
Link
It's sort of mentioned in the article - they drop Stubbs' name in there at one random spot, but don't list him among the acquisitions.
that jsut seems......unseemly
and
Follow up in November
This kind of stuff in public REALLY helps trade value, huh ?
Agreed....I can't peg anyone's ####### market value anymore!
Phillips
Votto
Ludwick
Bruce
Frazier
Hannigan
Cozart
I like that. Choo fits in perfectly. Not sure about Bruce/Choo playing CF. Honestly I'm a little terrified. Bruce did play more CF than RF in the minors, and played in CF some his rookie year. That was a while ago. In road interleague, Ludwick can slide to DH with Heisey playing CF.
Didn't want to lose Didi, but he will likely never hit enough to earn an everyday job. Of course Cozart isn't exactly a Silver Slugger.
WIsh Stubbs the best of luck. He needed out of Cincinnati. If he ever had a chance to recover and be productive, it wasn't going to be in Cincinnati.
Now I could end up being dead wrong about Gregorious or Bauer, but simply looking at the market for pitching prospects and IF with no bad tells me that there was a better way to deploy those resources. KC had a plan to cash in prospects for current stars. They executed it in a way that did not maximize value, but it is a plan that can work. Arizona appears to have decided to trade Bauer for a SS without paying much attention to which SS.
If this trade is really as described (and after the reported Myers for Anderson/Myers for Niese & Wheeler and the actual Myers/Shield trade), this would seem to hint that talent valuation in the 2012-2013 baseball offseason is..... odd.
Apparently now's the time, if you have a pretty decent veteran nearing the end of his contract, to unload him and get an A prospect back.
I can only assume this was the mindset of Towers as he contemplated this trade.
Career vs LHB: .215/.292/.414
Career vs RHB: .209/.324/.403
Like you said: every time.
This may just be a plot to make a rushed up Hamilton look great when compared to Choo and/or Bruce flailing away in centerfield. Suddenly a weak hitting, defense first center fielder won't look so bad.
Does he have to be active? Because I find Tony Fossas really fits the LOOGY bill nicely.
RHB: .279/.374/.434
LHB: .214/.284/.314
Drew Stubbs in 2012: .213/.277/.333
Drew Stubbs 09-12: .238/.311/.380
Choo career: .283/.373/.441 .. not in GABP
I hope Bruce or Choo one can play a serviceable CF.
Plus Donald has to be an upgrade at the UT IF spot over the Cairo/Valdez combo the Reds gave a combined 360 PA to last year.
Career vs RHB: .342/.459/.613
Career vs LHB: .168/.257/.236
Only 91 IP, but of course a true LOOGY won't rack up innings very fast.
RHB: .279/.404/.401
LHB: .201/.278/.284
309 career innings.
Diamondbacks
Give up: Bauer, Albers, Shaw
Receive: Gregorius, Sipp, Anderson
Indians
Give up: Choo, Donald, Sipp, Anderson, $3.5M
Receive: Bauer, Stubbs, Albers, Shaw
Reds
Give up: Gregorius, Stubbs
Receive: Choo, Donald, $3.5M
Holy moley, that really looks lopsided, doesn't it? Cleveland and Cincinnati look like moderate winners, and Arizona looks like it got hosed. Bauer is no longer an elite prospect, but nevertheless, Gregorius had better be a damned good defender if he's going to have any chance of making the trade worthwhile for Arizona.
True, but depressing.
Really? I know about the workout thing and issues with the front office, but I think what he did as a 21 year old in the upper minors has only increased his status in my book.
Thanks Harv ... I try to keep a little mystery in every relationship.
Ohhh, Jocketty.
Also, what is Lars Anderson doing in this trade? They have Goldschmidt at 1B, Kubel in LF and Upton (until he's traded for Grant Green) in RF.
Huzzah!
Javier Lopez.
Rzepczynski and Boone Logan seem to get used as LOOGY's by their current teams.
Just don't make a whole lot of sense, unless they really think Gregorius is just going to go nuclear.
Towers is comparing him to Jeter. I kid you not.
Because the owner went public and called Drew out for prolonging his rehab because he thought Drew didn't want to play. Directly called his character into question, even used that word. So that bridge was burned. There is no way Drew would have resigned with Arizona after that.
Primey for 56. Tom Taciturn was a cancer in the clubhouse!
Haven't heard that same in a long time.
I liked #56 as well - it took me a second, but I LOLed.
The Pennington trade and this one almost make it seem like Towers is, well, on crack. I really don't understand how Bauer's star could have fallen so fast.
Honestly, they talk about Choo being a 1 year rental but if Hamilton's ready Stubbs probably would have been non-tendered after this year. Add in the fact that Gregorious might never hit enough to be an everyday player and that McDonald could contract malaria and still be a better bench IF than the Reds had this year and I really like this trade.
Really? I know about the workout thing and issues with the front office, but I think what he did as a 21 year old in the upper minors has only increased his status in my book.
Concur, almost 11 K/9 and a low 2's ERA across AA/AAA should help your status.
He had 16 ugly innings in the bigs, but, it's 16 IP.
Edit: just to add, this trade is so lopsided the commissioner should veto it (that is if there was a real commissioner).
The DBacks trading Bauer for Gregorious is baffling. AND they tossed in Shaw, who I think is at least useful, and received Lars Andersen, who I think is not.
Nah, have the song "Notorius" over-dubbed with "Gre-, Gre-, Gre-, Gregorius, dah dah dah dah dah"
I love this deal for the Reds. It's basically a straight up swap of Stubbs for Choo with the money evened out for 2013. Even if the Reds centerfielders end up being 30 runs worse than Stubbs would have been out there, it's still should be a net positive for them. Stubbs was completely and horribly lost last year at the plate. Plus, we won't have to listen to the Brennaman's ##### about the strikeouts (this seemed to encompass about 25% of a typical Reds tv broadcast), so, even those will be more enjoyable.
Because Reno needs a 1B. Lars is not a MLB player.
I guess that is the nice way of putting it. I had always heard someone always ends up getting ####ed over.
Ha. Thanks, shoewiz. Unfortunately, I have neither. When you approach the baseball world with the soft bigotry of the low expectation that Kevin Towers is basically incompetent, you are never unpleasantly surprised. The vast majority of his transactions in Arizona have confirmed to me that he is a fire-breathing, myopic and impulsive hack, whose idea for team building seems to revolve around (1) overpaying mutiple random right handers in the bullpen, (2) collecting a gaggle of some glove, no bat, futility infielders, and (3) dumping minor leaguers who weren't/aren't his prospects to satisfy fetishes (1) and (2). Luckily for him, the two main owners in Arizona (Kendrick and Hall) are even more ignorant about baseball, yet think that they are the smartest people to ever walk south of the Grand Canyon.
Basically the tragedy with the Dbacks began the day Kendrick and Hall decided to go with Towers instead of Jerry Dipoto as their GM. Dipoto had done some great work in his short amount of time as the interim GM, and I believe he had a long term plan in place, to build around the young pitchers he had in place. Dipoto was a big Jarrod Parker fan, and he also was the biggest Trevor Bauer supporter in the organization. Once Dipoto went to Anaheim, it was all Towers, all the time, in Arizona, and the results have been sadly predictable. The Parker and Cook for Cahill trade was a disaster, and the Bauer for Gregorius dump was as predictable as a sunrise. All the Towers comments on the trade and on Gregorius would be ridiculously funny if they weren't actually scary, because he truly believes in the stuff he's saying.
Luckily, over the last couple of years I've managed to sufficiently detach myself from baseball in general, and the Dbacks in particular, so I was able to read the news of yesterday's disaster with a healty dose of morbid curiosity and a modicum of heart-felt pity for the few remaining intelligent Dbacks fans, like shoewizard. Those few smart fans should have known to jump ship a long time ago, when Towers came on board, so they should have very little reason to complain too much today. In their honor, in light of yesterday's pathetically awful trade, I dedicate this Gregorius chant. "Pious Lord Jesus, give them rest."
@Dbacks
@SteveGilbertMLB
@JackMagruder
The Dbacks organization is a train-wreck that reminds me of the sad days when they began dismantling the 2001 Championship team.
He's going to jump off a runaway train onto the Hindenburg?
BTW, as much as Didi Gregorius is a great name, if he went by his middle name 'Julius Gregorius' that might be a top 10 name in baseball history.
In all fairness, probably a reasonable comp/upside for Gregorius, assuming his glove is for real, is Alcides Escobar.
I have a really hard time getting excited about trading Trevor Bauer for a guy who one day may be Alcides Escobar.
He might get mixed up on which calendar to use.
Why wouldn't anyone like this statement? I've always thought he was pretty knowledgeable.
dipoto does seem like a pretty big loss - i was (and am) impressed by him.
Shooty, I have no beef with Mets fan. They have been handed a raw deal, with broke and incompetent ownership and still a fairly barren system. But their GM is smart and I think the Mets will be OK sooner than most people think, especially given some of the higher upside pitching prospects they have. I don't get the haggling with Dickey over a few pennies but that will get sorted soon.
Der K, I think the decision to go with Towers really came down to Kendrick and Hall wanting to have a GM who would actually let them play with the big kids in the executive office. Personally, I believe that Josh Byrnes treated them like the ridiculous baseball n00bs they are, which was OK when Jeff Moorad was on board but backfired once Jeff Moorad left and the Dbacks struggled.
Picking Dipoto as the GM would have required baseball balls and brains that I don't believe Kendrick and Hall actually possess. I was hoping that Dipoto could work with, or at least coexist with, Towers, but that wasn't going to work. I believe Dipoto clashed with Towers and Gibson over management of prospects, most notably Bauer. You can draw your own conclusions on those clashes.
I was just joking. You knew how to hit those sore spots in Mets threads back in the day, though!
The next guy who fails at pitching b/c he's an ass**** will be the first.
Plus, we're only getting the team's side of the story on Bauer's alleged asshattery. Again, the D-Backs seem to have a low treshhold for what they consider a bad attitude.
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