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Monday, January 28, 2013

More Loria behavior criticized

The concern is all green—Miró’s green.

[Marlins owner Jeffrey] Loria’s meddling in personnel decisions is widely known, but it’s even worse than perceived. Besides suggesting or dictating free agent signings and players to trade, Loria has instructed his front office to demote several players.

The Marlins went without a third catcher in September because Loria was fed up with Brett Hayes. One player said word came down during a game that Chris Volstad would be demoted because of Loria’s unhappiness. “He had one bad start, and Loria was like, ‘He’s gone,’” another player said.

“Everyone knows he does it,” the player said of Loria demoting players. “It makes it hard to play. Every time you come into the clubhouse after a bad outing, you’re thinking, ‘Oh, [bleep]! Is Loria going to send me down because he’s [angry] tonight, just because Loria’s in an [expletive] mood?’

“So all these guys, with the exception of Giancarlo [Stanton], walk around on eggshells.”...

Marlins players notice when Loria shoots disgusted looks or throws up his hands when a player fails, or when he leaves early when the Marlins are losing. Some don’t like that he sits so close to the dugout.

“He’s always looking in the dugout,” one former Marlin said. “Mind your business! Watch the game! But he’s got the seat right there.”

Though Loria can be generous (such as buying jewelry for Hanley Ramirez), his presence in the clubhouse irritates some players, according to a former Marlin. “You never see an owner in the clubhouse unless there’s a reason to be, and you wonder what the heck he’s doing in here,” another said.

Another player criticized Loria for talking to the team as a group.

“This guy sits down with us in Boston last season and tries to give us an [expletive] speech, to inspire us,” the player said. “You listen to it and then everybody kind of looked at each other like, ‘What the [bleep] is that? Is this guy serious?’ It was unnecessary.”...

Four agents told me their players cannot trust that their injuries and rehabilitations will be handled correctly because of lack of confidence in the training staff—a problem that a former Marlin attributes to Loria’s loyalty to trainer Sean Cunningham.

h/t Hardball Talk

The District Attorney Posted: January 28, 2013 at 03:44 PM | 36 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: jeffrey loria, marlins

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   1. Tripon Posted: January 28, 2013 at 05:02 PM (#4356776)
Yep, The Marlins are Jeoffery Lanister.
   2. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: January 28, 2013 at 05:04 PM (#4356779)
an [expletive] mood



an [expletive] speech


The [expletive] that I would think of in both of those cases would require "a" rather than "an". I can't think of an [expletive] that fits either spot that "an" would work with.

And yeah, Jeffrey Loria is an [expletive].
   3. Juan Uribe Marching and Chowder Society Posted: January 28, 2013 at 05:04 PM (#4356780)
I saw the actor who plays Joffrey in an airport once. I had to fight the urge to trip him as he walked by; I forgot he was just an actor.
   4. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 28, 2013 at 05:08 PM (#4356786)
It's odd that Loria would be bothered so much by the failures of his players, when he can't be bothered to get good players in the first place.
   5. Depressoteric feels Royally blue these days Posted: January 28, 2013 at 05:08 PM (#4356788)
Who's worse, Jeffrey Loria or Marge Schott?

I think I may have to go with Loria on this one. And I'm surprised to find myself reaching that conclusion.
   6. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: January 28, 2013 at 05:13 PM (#4356801)
Who's worse, Jeffrey Loria or Marge Schott?

I think I may have to go with Loria on this one. And I'm surprised to find myself reaching that conclusion.
Really? Wasn't Marge Schott basically everything Loria was, with the added bonus of being a racist and antisemite?
   7. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: January 28, 2013 at 05:18 PM (#4356807)
This story is bizarre. All these years I thought Loria was just running a grifting operation for profit. Apparently he actually spends a lot of time thinking about baseball?
   8. SoSH U at work Posted: January 28, 2013 at 05:20 PM (#4356814)
Really? Wasn't Marge Schott basically everything Loria was, with the added bonus of being a racist and antisemite?


And they both won World Series.

Schott was cheap, but never to the degree that Loria is. There were never any firesales like Miami's had.
   9. boteman Posted: January 28, 2013 at 05:23 PM (#4356818)
But just like Schottzie, Loria keeps crapping over people everywhere.
   10. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: January 28, 2013 at 05:26 PM (#4356825)
Really? Wasn't Marge Schott basically everything Loria was, with the added bonus of being a racist and antisemite?


Like Hitler, at least she loved dogs.
   11. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: January 28, 2013 at 05:28 PM (#4356827)
The [expletive] that I would think of in both of those cases would require "a" rather than "an". I can't think of an [expletive] that fits either spot that "an" would work with.

The full version of a-hole fits, especially if the player is prone to colorful profanity, like some people I know who say "what the sh*t."

Jeff Loria was in an a-hole mood and gave an a-hole speech.

Yeah, that fits.
   12. smileyy Posted: January 28, 2013 at 05:35 PM (#4356834)

The [expletive] that I would think of in both of those cases would require "a" rather than "an". I can't think of an [expletive] that fits either spot that "an" would work with.


Its also possible that the style guide proscribes "an [explitive] mood", rather than "a [explitive] mood", as if one is reading the word "explitive" as part of the sentence.

That is, if they had chosen other forms of sanitizing, it might read "a ****** mood"
   13. TDF, situational idiot Posted: January 28, 2013 at 07:07 PM (#4356929)
Really? Wasn't Marge Schott basically everything Loria was, with the added bonus of being a racist and antisemite?
I can't believe no one's said "Scott was good in the beginning, but went too far."

   14. DA Baracus Posted: January 28, 2013 at 07:15 PM (#4356934)
I can't believe no one's said "Scott was good in the beginning, but went too far."


Because Schott wasn't good at the beginning.
   15. bfan Posted: January 28, 2013 at 07:25 PM (#4356940)
and if he never showed up, he would be pilloried as an absentee owner; how can fans show up if the owner won't even show up?. And if he did not react while at games, people would criticize him for his indifference in the face of failure. If Jeff Loria saved a 70 year old an from choking to death, he would be criticized for the cost burden he had just placed on the health care system.
   16. TDF, situational idiot Posted: January 28, 2013 at 07:28 PM (#4356942)
Really? Wasn't Marge Schott basically everything Loria was, with the added bonus of being a racist and antisemite?
Fun fact: The last 7 years Schott owned the Reds ('92-'98) their payroll averaged just over $40M/yr; in the 7 years from '05-'11, the Marlins' payroll averaged $38.5M/yr.

Marge was a lot of things, but her Payroll+ was much higher than Loria's.
   17. Depressoteric feels Royally blue these days Posted: January 28, 2013 at 07:31 PM (#4356943)
Marge was a lot of things, but her Payroll+ was much higher than Loria's.
And those numbers are even higher in relative terms, compared to the rest of the league at that time.
   18. TDF, situational idiot Posted: January 28, 2013 at 07:36 PM (#4356946)
Because Schott wasn't good at the beginning.
Depends on your definition.

They had winning records the first 4 years she owned the team, finishing 2nd in the division each year, and 1st or 2nd 8 of the first 11 seasons. They also won the series in year 6.
   19. DA Baracus Posted: January 28, 2013 at 07:39 PM (#4356949)
Depends on your definition.


I was implying that by not being good in the beginning that Marge Schott was worse than Hitler.
   20. TDF, situational idiot Posted: January 28, 2013 at 07:52 PM (#4356953)
Another thing - all of Schott's shady business dealings were outside of baseball.
   21. Drexl Spivey Posted: January 28, 2013 at 08:16 PM (#4356977)
Like Hitler, at least she loved dogs.


No. That should read "Like Pilate..."

The book "The Master and Margarita" by Bulgakov and the song "Pilate" by Pearl Jam have established Pilate as the quintessential ####### with an affection for dogs.

   22. Nats-Homer-in-DC Posted: January 28, 2013 at 09:06 PM (#4357007)
Loria's still paying the cost of being the guy to successfully sell the Expos franchise to MLB. If only he'd been like Brochu, the one to fail to sell to DC interests in the 90s, gut the team, bring in a fall guy, fail to meet cash calls, lose owner % in club, and watch the fall guy finally succeed at replacing a market long ago unfit for baseball. If he was Brochu his actions would be ignored. Instead Loria got into a public fight with Selig over contraction, forcing himself into retaining ownership of one of the 30 clubs. Selig had to give up contraction and schemed to screw over the Yawkey family to install Henry, a man who screwed over Marlins fans, in Boston (but again,like Brochu, that part is ignored by the sabr crowd because sabr guys got hired in Boston). As others had their crimes ignored, he was saddled with all the animosity and anger that Expos and small market supporters were feeling.

BTW no one was complaining over Loria's meddling when he brought in Pudge and McKeon. No one was warning him he was overzealous by taking $30mm+ losses, net of revenue sharing if you believe forbes estimates, to compete in 2003-2005. That's his personality. Sometimes you bet right, sometimes not. But the man's passion and willingness to take temporary losses (temporary as he later took in $30mm profits, net of rs by forbes) to win is due some respect. Among Miami and generally low revenue clubs that is unique.
   23. Walt Davis Posted: January 28, 2013 at 09:14 PM (#4357012)
I count two uses of "[bleep]", two of "[expletive]" and one "[angry]". Maybe the Marlins players need to learn not to be such potty mouths!
   24. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 28, 2013 at 09:39 PM (#4357026)
Really? Wasn't Marge Schott basically everything Loria was, with the added bonus of being a racist and antisemite?


Schott was entitled to be as cheap as she wanted, at least she was spending her own money.
   25. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: January 28, 2013 at 10:42 PM (#4357056)
“Everyone knows he does it,” the player said of Loria demoting players. “It makes it hard to play. Every time you come into the clubhouse after a bad outing, you’re thinking, ‘Oh, [bleep]! Is Loria going to send me down because he’s [angry] tonight, just because Loria’s in an [expletive] mood?’

“So all these guys, with the exception of Giancarlo [Stanton], walk around on eggshells.”...

Marlins players notice when Loria shoots disgusted looks or throws up his hands when a player fails, or when he leaves early when the Marlins are losing. Some don’t like that he sits so close to the dugout.


I'm sure they have a point with some of it, but a lot of this is just Bad Employee 101. If you walk around on eggshells whenever the boss is watching and you fear that their might be repercussions for your latest #### up, you probably are not getting the job done.
   26. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 28, 2013 at 10:49 PM (#4357060)
No one was warning him he was overzealous by taking $30mm+ losses, net of revenue sharing if you believe forbes estimates, to compete in 2003-2005.

Cash losses? Don't believe that for a second.

Accounting losses (depreciation, etc.) that he could happily use to offset tax liability on really cash income elsewhere? Sure.
   27. valuearbitrageur Posted: January 28, 2013 at 10:49 PM (#4357061)
Hitler was taller and less prone to irrational outbursts.
   28. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 28, 2013 at 10:51 PM (#4357065)

I'm sure they have a point with some of it, but a lot of this is just Bad Employee 101. If you walk around on eggshells whenever the boss is watching and you fear that their might be repercussions for your latest #### up, you probably are not getting the job done.


I think if the boss randomly demotes people (drastically reducing their salary) for minor mistakes, employees are going to act strangely. Imagine that your boss could demote you to the mail room and $9/hr on a whim, and had done it to three of your co-workers, you wouldn't live in fear? That's on the boss, not the employee.
   29. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: January 28, 2013 at 11:17 PM (#4357074)
Imagine that your boss could demote you to the mail room and $9/hr on a whim, and had done it to three of your co-workers, you wouldn't live in fear? That's on the boss, not the employee.

When you play like Brett Hayes or Chris Volstad you should feel like you are one step from the mail room. If you have a healthy slash line or K-rate, you're fine. Bottomline, marginal employees greatest fear is accountability. Good employees want more accountability.
   30. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 28, 2013 at 11:41 PM (#4357089)
When you play like Brett Hayes or Chris Volstad you should feel like you are one step from the mail room. If you have a healthy slash line or K-rate, you're fine. Bottomline, marginal employees greatest fear is accountability. Good employees want more accountability.

No one wants accountability based on isolated incidents and knee-jerk reactions. Even the best employees make mistakes.

If your players believe this:


One player said word came down during a game that Chris Volstad would be demoted because of Loria’s unhappiness. “He had one bad start, and Loria was like, ‘He’s gone,’” another player said.


you're failing as a boss.
   31. McCoy Posted: January 28, 2013 at 11:45 PM (#4357091)
you're failing as a boss.

To surround yourself with good employees.


Volstad is a garbage pitcher who shouldn't be starting games for you at the major league level. Employees don't like it when their fellow employees get fired especially when they themselves are marginal as well.
   32. Dag is a salt water fish in fresh water world Posted: January 29, 2013 at 12:20 AM (#4357111)
Really? Wasn't Marge Schott basically everything Loria was, with the added bonus of being a racist and antisemite?

Disagree entirely. Well, no - I agree she's a racist and anti-semitic. But she's no Loria.

I've read about Schott and the main conclusion I've come to is that it's amazing someone like her could come to own a team when she did. In many ways, she was a fundemantally decent person. She loved animals, loved kids - and not just those in her immediate vicinity. She was very active in charity with it. She was active in the community - trying to do far for more it than later Reds owners were, though those owners were far less embarrassing.

But she was racist - and fairly open about it. She'd tell reporters that Hitler was OK in the beginning. She was anti-semitic. She publicly stated that only "fruits" wore ear rings. It's like she was some creature from the Lockhorns comic strips - but living in the late 1980s / early 1990s in a highly public role. Not only did she feel these things, but she seemed shocked - genuinely shocked that her views were controversial. Her environment was apparently people who were decent folk in their own way, trying to help their neighbor out - but fundamentally racist et al. I don't doubt many other owners have had similarly unenlightened attitudes, but she was so brazen about it at such a late date, and so unaware how out of step she was.

Furthermore, she was so weird on money. She apparently owned some car dealerships and was known for walking around, and turning off computers at any/all unoccupied desks. That's her power bill going up with those unattended computers don't you know. Seriously? Talk about penny-wise, pound-foolish. There's virtually no savings in the grand scheme of things and you're hurting customer service and employee morale. Again, how come someone like this own a team in big-money days of baseball. It fits w/ her treatment of Eric Davis.

Jeff Loria has massive warts obviously, but they are very different warts than Schott. Loria is just scum. Schott? Well, let me put it to you this way - ever seen The Great Santini? There's a scene where the son is talking to his black friend about his dogs that'll attack white people. "Mean dogs, huh? "Nope, the dogs ain't mean - just racist!" In many ways, Schott was a nice person - if you can get past the whole racist thing.

Loria? The biggest scumbag in MLB, just plain and simple.
   33. Austin Posted: January 29, 2013 at 12:26 AM (#4357112)
When you play like Brett Hayes or Chris Volstad you should feel like you are one step from the mail room. If you have a healthy slash line or K-rate, you're fine. Bottomline, marginal employees greatest fear is accountability. Good employees want more accountability.


The thing is, though, that putting your employees on a razor's edge only really makes sense as a tool for motivation - and by most accounts, marginal major-league players have motivation up the wazoo, regardless of whether or not their owner is scrutinizing their every move. What is this permanent threat of demotion supposed to achieve? To magically improve his velocity? To turn 110% effort into 120%? I just don't see how it could possibly do anything other than make the guy a nervous wreck who has a heightened fear of failure and would shy away from all but the safest plays.
   34. valuearbitrageur Posted: January 29, 2013 at 04:12 AM (#4357156)
I'm sure they have a point with some of it, but a lot of this is just Bad Employee 101. If you walk around on eggshells whenever the boss is watching and you fear that their might be repercussions for your latest #### up, you probably are not getting the job done.


The Manic Midget is not their bss, he is the owner, and doesn't have a shred of self control or baseball sense. A good owner hires a good GM and says out of the way until its time to fire the GM.

If the Midget was upset that Volstead sucked that's on Beinfest. Berating players isn't motivational, their entire job performance is public record witnessed by tens of thousands in a field where the difference between a high level of performance and just average is immense levels of weakth. Putting more pressure on them is usually asinine, my guess is most players need to relax more to perform better. But even if some players need their ass kicked, where are the manager and GM?

The Midgets antics couldn't motivate anyone, having him decide which players are sent down to the minors is hilarious This idiot fell into a massive pile of talent accumulated during John Henry's tenure that enabled him to win two World Series while barely spending a dime. That gold mine is now empty and the Manic Midges next decade is going to be awesome to watch.
   35.     Hey Gurl Posted: January 29, 2013 at 04:19 AM (#4357157)
What amazes me is that players still sign with the Marlins. Sort of casts some doubt on the notion that many players consider anything other than the highest-valued contract*

Bet Pujols isn't regretting his decision much.
   36. winnipegwhip Posted: January 30, 2013 at 12:12 AM (#4357963)
#22 - baseball's Howard Zinn

People were disgusted with Loria when he cooked the attendence record on the last day of 2002 so the Marlins would have a higher attendence than the Expos he screwed.

You failed to mention the disgusting treatment he gave to the remaining fans in Montreal. He refused to put the games on the radio and Dave Van Horne had to endure the indignity of broadcasting over the internet for a season. Once he realized he couldn't get government money for a stadium he wasn't interested in Montreal anymore.

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