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Saturday, October 06, 2012

Morosi: Does Josh Hamilton have future in Texas?

Not in the wicked city of Josh (holds sign up with goofy numbers).

So this is how it ends for Josh Hamilton and the Texas Rangers.

A rally-killing double play. An anxious strikeout. Boos. A first-pitch comebacker. More boos.

Tepid applause before he stepped in as the tying run in the eighth inning of Friday night’s American League wild-card game, one last chance at the redemption that never came. Three pitches. Two swings. One more strikeout. Louder boos.

... How bad did it get? “Bad,” Hamilton said. He didn’t go into detail, but it was apparent the words stung. He insisted he would shake them off, because that’s what the Bible tells him to do. Hamilton cites scripture frequently. But this verse — Matthew 10:14 — sounded like a sorrowful goodbye.

“If they don’t receive you in a town,” he said, paraphrasing the Bible, “shake the dust off your feet and move to the next.”

For months, baseball observers have wondered if Hamilton will re-sign with Texas once he becomes a free agent after the final out of the World Series. Now we have the answer.

“I’m not saying that’ll happen, but you know what? It’s just — I’ve enjoyed it here, guys,” Hamilton said, stopping himself from going further. “I’ve loved my teammates. They’ve helped me grow. The coaching staff has helped me grow as a player. I wasn’t fortunate enough to have minor-league years to grow. Some of these years have been dealing with that, learning how to play the game.

“It’s been a lot of fun.”

Repoz Posted: October 06, 2012 at 06:55 AM | 88 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: rangers

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   1. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: October 06, 2012 at 07:23 AM (#4256585)
I can see how you'd end up booing a guy like Hamilton, because when he's locked in he looks like he'll never stop being great, and then he can drop off precipitously for literally months at a time. I mean, he had a swing of over .500 in his OPS from his best month to his worst month this season.

Not saying it's right, but I can understand how that gets exasperating.
   2. RMc is a fine piece of cheese Posted: October 06, 2012 at 07:27 AM (#4256588)
I could think of about two dozen teams who'd love to have him, including mine.
   3. depletion Posted: October 06, 2012 at 07:34 AM (#4256590)
He said again Friday that prayer will guide his choice.

Perhaps, like Reggie White, he's going to the Green Bay Packers.

We won't boo you at Citi Field, Josh. Well, probably.
   4. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: October 06, 2012 at 07:45 AM (#4256595)
Obviously prayer should guide all choices. It's silly that it wouldn't. Also he'd make any baseball team in the world better by being on it.
   5. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: October 06, 2012 at 07:46 AM (#4256596)
This is why players should go for the best contract--the love of the fans is fickle.

He said again Friday that prayer will guide his choice.

Maybe Hamilton has read this book?

We won't boo you at Citi Field, Josh. Well, probably.

I would like to see the holy war that would ensue between the Tebowites and the Hamiltonians. Smite them, smite them all!
   6. Chris Fluit Posted: October 06, 2012 at 07:58 AM (#4256603)
slightly off-topic but there's no way Upton ends up back in Tampa either. I think he and his teammates knew it. Near the end of their final game, other players like Longoria took turns going up to Upton and embracing him.

   7. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: October 06, 2012 at 08:02 AM (#4256608)
I've said this elsewhere, but just in case anyone thought I was wavering, I want no part of Hamilton on the Yankees--which is admittedly unlikely--and I think whoever signs him is going to be profoundly disappointed. I suspect he's going to get paid for his 2010 season, which was brilliant, but isn't coming back. He's getting $100 million from someone, and it's going to be a horrible deal.
   8. Hack Wilson Posted: October 06, 2012 at 08:30 AM (#4256614)
Smite them, smite them all!


I'm reading a book in which the townsfolk of Swindon are working on an anti-smite shield. I believe that is what Hamilton tried to accomplish with his tatoos.
   9. Jeff Francoeur's OPS Posted: October 06, 2012 at 08:47 AM (#4256618)
There's not a chance in hell Hamilton returns to Texas.
   10. Heinie Mantush (Krusty) Posted: October 06, 2012 at 08:49 AM (#4256620)

I've said this elsewhere, but just in case anyone thought I was wavering, I want no part of Hamilton on the Yankees--which is admittedly unlikely--and I think whoever signs him is going to be profoundly disappointed. I suspect he's going to get paid for his 2010 season, which was brilliant, but isn't coming back. He's getting $100 million from someone, and it's going to be a horrible deal.


Agreed. I don't want the Mets coming near Hamilton, either. He's probably a bad contract waiting to happen... but I do think he's still a 100M player right now. It's just that there's an unusually high chance of him flaming out.

Honestly, Hamilton really is the biggest question mark I've ever seen on FA. I'd be only slightly less surprised if he hits his prime from 32-37 and wins 1 or 2 more MVP's in that span. My total WAG is that Hamilton either goes to the Cards on something like 5/115 and posts an average season of 310/40/125 over the life of the k OR he goes to the Marlins and we get Darryl Strawberry east.

...I could totally talk myself into Josh Hamilton.
   11. steagles Posted: October 06, 2012 at 08:57 AM (#4256622)
... How bad did it get? “Bad,” Hamilton said. He didn’t go into detail, but it was apparent the words stung. He insisted he would shake them off, because that’s what the Bible tells him to do. Hamilton cites scripture frequently. But this verse — Matthew 10:14 — sounded like a sorrowful goodbye.

so long as we're quoting scripture, does this mean what i think it means:

And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

...matthew 16:19
   12. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: October 06, 2012 at 09:04 AM (#4256628)
There's not a chance in hell Hamilton returns to Texas.

Does Texas have no interest in retaining him?
   13. BDC Posted: October 06, 2012 at 09:06 AM (#4256631)
Last night, the opinion in Arlington was Isaiah 30.22: "thou shalt cast him away as a menstruous cloth, thou shalt say unto him, get thee hence."

Which I hasten to say I don't share. It's the old what-have-you-done-for-me-lately attitude, forgetting that the Rangers would have been nowhere near the Wild Card if Hamilton hadn't hit the way he did earlier in the season. Let alone the last five seasons. Yeah, the bum, what has he ever achieved in this town :)

And that said, I wouldn't sign him. Bill James had a metaphor once, IIRC WRT Joaquin Andujar: it often happens that some club gets the juicy center of a guy's career, and other teams get the rinds. (Watermelon metaphor, I hope we can use that.) The Rangers got the center; it's time to find the center of somebody else's career now. Otherwise they're building a collection of rinds.
   14. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: October 06, 2012 at 10:20 AM (#4256663)
I'd give Hamilton the contract I suspect Nick Swisher is going to get. Because what Hamilton really is--a very good, but not great, hitting corner outfield, is what everyone thinks Swisher is. But Hamilton is going to get paid like what he's really not, which is a great hitting center fielder.
   15. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: October 06, 2012 at 10:25 AM (#4256665)
Just checked Hamilton's stats on B-R. Two things came to mind:
1. What does the gold background behind his 2010 BA signify? I've never seen that before on B-R.
2. Holy hell, he struck out a lot more this year than the rest of his career. That's definitely a giant red flag.
   16. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: October 06, 2012 at 10:46 AM (#4256675)
1. What does the gold background behind his 2010 BA signify? I've never seen that before on B-R
I noticed that too. I'm wonder if gold background indicates a batting title (along with the highest average) whereas just bold--as I assume it will be on Melky's page--means highest average but no batting title.
   17. BDC Posted: October 06, 2012 at 10:59 AM (#4256683)
What does the gold background behind his 2010 BA signify?

That's just an afterimage from looking at a flashing purple banner ad. Blink a few times and it will go away.
   18. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: October 06, 2012 at 11:07 AM (#4256687)
I noticed that too. I'm wonder if gold background indicates a batting title (along with the highest average) whereas just bold--as I assume it will be on Melky's page--means highest average but no batting title.

Yeah, after poking around a bit more that seems to be what it is.
   19. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: October 06, 2012 at 11:37 AM (#4256701)
I wasn’t fortunate enough to have minor-league years to grow.

Heh.
   20. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: October 06, 2012 at 11:37 AM (#4256702)
Josh Hamilton is the most insufferable interview in baseball. I am not a spiritual person, but usually do not begrudge someone who is. My brother is and I understand how it enriches his life. But he doesn't remind you of this every time he opens his mouth. Hamilton is the walking cliche of what, in part, grates me about the extremists. He's an empty vessel who will defer to a higher power to "make" every decision for him, whether it's where to go to make his next millions of dollars or what combo meal at Taco Bell he should get.
   21. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: October 06, 2012 at 11:47 AM (#4256708)
I'd give Hamilton the contract I suspect Nick Swisher is going to get. Because what Hamilton really is--a very good, but not great, hitting corner outfield, is what everyone thinks Swisher is.

Fun with selective endpoints:

2011, 2012
fWAR
Hamilton: 4.1, 4.4
Swisher: 3.8, 4.0
   22. Monty Posted: October 06, 2012 at 12:11 PM (#4256721)
Josh Hamilton is the most insufferable interview in baseball.


I feel the opposite way. I usually roll my eyes and make obnoxious noises under my breath when athletes are particularly outspoken in their Christianity. But since I know that Josh Hamilton wen through addictions to alcohol, drugs, and even tattoos, I think it's healthy for him to have settled on an addiction that at least doesn't hurt him. So Hamilton's practically the only one who, when he answers a question with scripture, makes me say, "Good for you, Josh! Stay the course!"
   23. Nasty Nate Posted: October 06, 2012 at 12:24 PM (#4256727)
I'd love for the Red Sox to sign him.

He's also in the Dave Henderson / Alfonso Soriano club of would-be could-be world series heroes.
   24. Monty Posted: October 06, 2012 at 12:36 PM (#4256736)
Come to think of it, I also approve of the way Hamilton actually quotes the Bible in interviews instead of just saying "All glory to God" all the time like a lot of athletes. It makes me think he's actually read it, which makes the whole thing feel more sincere. I guess I get annoyed by the constant, shallow religiosity but approve of it when it seems like it goes deeper than that?
   25. Bourbon Samurai Posted: October 06, 2012 at 12:40 PM (#4256740)
Josh Hamilton not have future in Texas. Josh Hamilton future lie elsewhere.
   26. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: October 06, 2012 at 12:43 PM (#4256743)
Josh Hamilton not have future in Texas. Josh Hamilton future lie elsewhere.
These are not the droids you're looking for.
   27. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 06, 2012 at 12:48 PM (#4256747)
But since I know that Josh Hamilton wen through addictions to alcohol, drugs, and even tattoos, I think it's healthy for him to have settled on an addiction that at least doesn't hurt him. So Hamilton's practically the only one who, when he answers a question with scripture, makes me say, "Good for you, Josh! Stay the course!"
This. Religion helps him in his life, and impacts yours not at all. Win-win.
   28. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 06, 2012 at 01:27 PM (#4256773)
He's an empty vessel who will defer to a higher power to "make" every decision for him, whether it's where to go to make his next millions of dollars or what combo meal at Taco Bell he should get.
Wouldn't god tell him to eat at Chik-Fil-A?
   29. rr Posted: October 06, 2012 at 01:31 PM (#4256775)
If we assume that Hamilton is leaving Texas, (and I think that is far from clear) who would be the most likely teams to go after him?
   30. Spivey Posted: October 06, 2012 at 01:33 PM (#4256778)
I think anyone saying "I'd love my team to have him" may not think that when their team signs him to a 6 year $100million contract. Yes, he's a good player. He's also going to be very expensive, for what are likely post-prime years. And I don't root for him to relapse, but he's done it twice.
   31. Spivey Posted: October 06, 2012 at 01:34 PM (#4256779)
The Rangers have been slowly making Hamilton out to be a bad guy much of the year. I would be shocked if they brought him back.
   32. vortex of dissipation Posted: October 06, 2012 at 01:36 PM (#4256781)
I'm reading a book in which the townsfolk of Swindon are working on an anti-smite shield.


First Tuesday Next reference I've ever seen on BTF!
   33. Swedish Chef Posted: October 06, 2012 at 01:39 PM (#4256784)
If we assume that Hamilton is leaving Texas, (and I think that is far from clear) who would be the most likely teams to go after him?

The Dodgers gobble upp nine-figure contracts like jelly beans, but they already have $350M worth of players in the outfield.
   34. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: October 06, 2012 at 01:43 PM (#4256789)
The Dodgers gobble upp nine-figure contracts like jelly beans, but they already have $350M worth of players in the outfield
How much longer are the Angels paying Vernon Wells? Seems like Artie wants to spend until he's back in the playoffs.

Let's see...jeeze, another $42 million to Vernon through 2014. Yikes. On the other hand, they were paying Hunter $18 million the last few years, they could give Hamilton that money.
   35. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: October 06, 2012 at 01:54 PM (#4256803)
I think anyone saying "I'd love my team to have him" may not think that when their team signs him to a 6 year $100million contract.


I think a lot of fans will breathe a sigh a relief if their team signs him for 6/$100M instead of 8/$160M.

Wouldn't god tell him to eat at Chik-Fil-A?


WWJE?
   36. Misirlou has S.C.M.O.D.S Posted: October 06, 2012 at 01:57 PM (#4256805)
I noticed that too. I'm wonder if gold background indicates a batting title (along with the highest average) whereas just bold--as I assume it will be on Melky's page--means highest average but no batting title.

Yeah, after poking around a bit more that seems to be what it is.


Melky's 2012 BA is not bolded.
   37. DFA Posted: October 06, 2012 at 02:01 PM (#4256810)
Given all this off the field stuff in combination with a lot of big markets not needing a guy like Hamilton, I wonder if there is a perfect storm which would allow a mid market team like Seattle to get him on a reasonable contract?
   38. Hack Wilson Posted: October 06, 2012 at 02:06 PM (#4256817)
who would be the most likely teams to go after him?


I think the Cubs need to make a big acquisition. But David Wright may be the guy.
   39. BDC Posted: October 06, 2012 at 02:08 PM (#4256818)
WWJE?

That's easy.
   40. Ron J Posted: October 06, 2012 at 02:15 PM (#4256825)
Bill James had a metaphor once, IIRC WRT Joaquin Andujar: it often happens that some club gets the juicy center of a guy's career, and other teams get the rinds.


Darrell Porter.
   41. bunyon Posted: October 06, 2012 at 02:34 PM (#4256841)
6/100?

I think any team with an open OF spot should do that. 8/160? No.

Also, he talks about God in interviews. Interviews aren't conversations with people. In addition to what was said above about the likely sincerity, if I were a celeb, I'd come up with 5 or 6 benign things and simply repeat them.

If all Josh Hamilton can talk about with friends and family is God, then, yes, he's insufferable.

(Actually, you said insufferable interview - that may be a valid point).
   42. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: October 06, 2012 at 03:22 PM (#4256870)
Also, he talks about God in interviews. Interviews aren't conversations with people. In addition to what was said above about the likely sincerity, if I were a celeb, I'd come up with 5 or 6 benign things and simply repeat them.

If all Josh Hamilton can talk about with friends and family is God, then, yes, he's insufferable.

(Actually, you said insufferable interview - that may be a valid point).


I don't doubt his sincerity. And while I don't really care to hear any unsolicited religious banter, I can appreciate that he appears to be educated on the matter rather than the Generic "God Is Good" type of athlete described in an earlier post. It's just that unless it's pertinent to the topic of conversation (i.e. how he got clean), then I don't really want to hear incessant references to religion (e.g. when he said he prayed for those fans in the outfield who heckled him).
   43. Jarrod HypnerotomachiaPoliphili(Teddy F. Ballgame) Posted: October 06, 2012 at 04:10 PM (#4256921)
First Tuesday Next reference I've ever seen on BTF!


Not sure if this link will work, but I found three Jasper Fforde references on BBTF, the oldest going back to 2004.
   44. Natty Fan Posted: October 06, 2012 at 04:35 PM (#4256949)
#39 -- Something tells me he could order one and share it with the whole restaurant.
   45. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: October 06, 2012 at 05:15 PM (#4256978)
Two months ago, I'd have said Hamilton was very likely headed to the Dodgers. But the Carlos Crawford deal probably means he won't. Still, I wouldn't put it past Kasten to pony up the dough anyway and make Crawford a $20 mil/yr 4th outfielder.
   46. Nasty Nate Posted: October 06, 2012 at 05:41 PM (#4257007)
I think anyone saying "I'd love my team to have him" may not think that when their team signs him to a 6 year $100million contract.


I'd be ecstatic to get him to sign at that price. Wherever he signs, I predict he'll get a bigger deal than that.
   47. Walt Davis Posted: October 06, 2012 at 09:46 PM (#4257272)
There's so much floating around that 6/$100 for Hamilton would be chicken feed. C'mon now, Carlos Lee signed for 6/$100 and that was 6 years ago. And what's this notion that he's not a good hitter? His OPS+ was 10th in the league last year and a quick Marcel projects him to repeat it. Over the last 3 years, he's 8th in MLB (min 1500 PA) by OPS+ and everybody ahead of him is a corner player. He's 12th in WAR (Cano leads by a smidgen over Cabrera). Of course that includes the big 2010 and he does drop to 20th in OPS+ (top 10 in the league) and all the way to 45th in WAR 2011-12 (partly playing time). But even 45th still puts him pretty comfortably in the top 60 most valuable going forward -- your 2nd best players.

There's no particularly obvious reason to prefer, for example, Matt Holliday over Hamilton going forward and the Cards still owe Holliday 4/$68 on a contract signed 3 years ago. I have a hard time seeing Hamilton getting less than 5/$100.

Where will he end up? The most logical place probably is Texas but it does sound like that's not going to happen. The Angels do make a lot of sense but I might just re-sign Hunter on a shorter contract. We seem to rule out the NY teams for temptation reasons and I'm not seeing him finding the Boston media a comfy idea (and he's a guy you want to keep away from Popeye's and beer). Detroit seems obvious if they can squeeze in one year before the VMart contract is up and the debate about which of Fielder, Cabrera and Hamilton moves to DH around 2015 will be fun. Baltimore makes sense.

In the NL, the Giants, Brewers and maybe Braves (if Prado moves to 3B) make sense; the Phils if they want to continue their silly ways. Theo seems to have made it clear the Cubs aren't planning to spend big.

And, yeah, you never know when a Toronto, Seattle, Rockies will want to make a splash. As with most players around this age, I'd be a lot more interested if I was an AL team so I can give him 40 days off a year at DH and move him there full-time when the defense starts to go.

I can see the concern here -- when all is said and done, he'll have had a career no better than Brian Giles or Moises Alou with an upside of Jack Clark. I'd obviously rather have him for 3-4 years than 5-6. But I think he'll give you 3-4 years of being the 2nd best player on a really good team or the best hitter on a "balanced" team.
   48.     Hey Gurl Posted: October 06, 2012 at 10:05 PM (#4257296)
one last chance at the redemption that never came. T


Uh...
   49. escabeche Posted: October 06, 2012 at 10:18 PM (#4257321)
Would Hamilton, Jones, Markakis be the best outfield in baseball?
   50. Colonel Lagis Posted: October 06, 2012 at 10:27 PM (#4257336)
Baltimore makes sense.


Has Simon decided to make another season of The Wire? With Jones in center, Hamilton would be just a corner boy.

It's Baltimore gentlemen. The Gods will not save you.
   51. base ball chick Posted: October 06, 2012 at 10:29 PM (#4257343)
[quote]Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: October 06, 2012 at 03:22 PM (#4256870)
Also, he talks about God in interviews. Interviews aren't conversations with people. In addition to what was said above about the likely sincerity, if I were a celeb, I'd come up with 5 or 6 benign things and simply repeat them.

If all Josh Hamilton can talk about with friends and family is God, then, yes, he's insufferable.

(Actually, you said insufferable interview - that may be a valid point).



I don't doubt his sincerity. And while I don't really care to hear any unsolicited religious banter, I can appreciate that he appears to be educated on the matter rather than the Generic "God Is Good" type of athlete described in an earlier post. It's just that unless it's pertinent to the topic of conversation (i.e. how he got clean), then I don't really want to hear incessant references to religion (e.g. when he said he prayed for those fans in the outfield who heckled him).

jeezus keerist

you atheists are as intolerant as any fundamentalist

he hasn't said one unsolicited thing. SOMEONE asked him with a mike in his face about the boos. he answered. he told you how HE deals with it. he isn't trying to get YOU or anyone else to agreed with it or do it his way.

for josh hamilton, God/religion actually IS pertinent to topics he is ASKED about whether or not you like the answers

free your mind.

try a little tolerance
   52. Perry Posted: October 06, 2012 at 10:45 PM (#4257377)
Darrell Porter.


I thought it was Jack Clark. Maybe it was both of them.
   53. Monty Posted: October 06, 2012 at 10:51 PM (#4257390)
you atheists are as intolerant as any fundamentalist


I'm an atheist, and I said very tolerant things about Hamilton in this very thread!
   54. GregD Posted: October 06, 2012 at 11:08 PM (#4257415)
On Porter, James used the cake analogy. Milwaukee baked the cake; St Louis paid for it; Kansas City ate it. But actually Porter was great for St Louis.
   55. something like a train wreck Posted: October 06, 2012 at 11:56 PM (#4257498)
for josh hamilton, God/religion actually IS pertinent to topics he is ASKED about whether or not you like the answers


You do not need to be an atheist to think that there is something badly off and off-putting about a person who feels the need to repeatedly publicly bare his soul. Talking about his religious beliefs when a sports writer asks about a double play is like talking about your wife cheating on you every time an acquaintance asks "how are you doing."
   56. Monty Posted: October 07, 2012 at 12:38 AM (#4257534)
Look, Hamilton has shown that he's terrible at doing things in moderation. He can't just have a beer. He can't just get one tattoo. When there's something he's doing, it consumes all his attention. Talking about Jesus all the time is one of the absolute least harmful things he could be fixated on. It is by fixating on Christ that he keeps from fixating on things that will destroy him. If you don't like it, don't listen to interviews with him.
   57. cardsfanboy Posted: October 07, 2012 at 12:52 AM (#4257543)
Talking about Jesus all the time is one of the absolute least harmful things he could be fixated on


At an individual level, that much is true. But I absolutely guarantee you beyond any reasonable doubt, that on a macro scale, heroin and drunk driving kills fewer people in it's history than religion. :)

Edit: But I agree with the overall point from post 56.
   58. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: October 07, 2012 at 12:55 AM (#4257544)
YEAH BUT JESUS SUCKS
   59. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: October 07, 2012 at 12:58 AM (#4257549)
Talking about his religious beliefs when a sports writer asks about a double play is like talking about your wife cheating on you every time an acquaintance asks "how are you doing."

Or like Batman always whining about his dead parents!
   60. base ball chick Posted: October 07, 2012 at 02:25 AM (#4257572)
53
monty - i see your point and i'm sorry

55 something

tell you what - just substitite the word "bean" for every time he says "God" or "jesus" and "shazam" every time he says "bible" and then you'll feel all better. if you think that God and jesus and the Bible is all nonsense, what is it to you if he talks about it?

he needs to do what you call "bare his soul" in order to take what he considers responsibility for his life and stay off mind altering chemicals.

try a little tolerance

and, by the way, there is no good answer for "so why did you hit into that double play"
or
"so how do you feel about your hometown fans booing you"
or
"so why did you strike out when your team was counting on you to get a hit"

etc
   61. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: October 07, 2012 at 02:29 AM (#4257574)
Would Hamilton, Jones, Markakis be the best outfield in baseball?

I'd still take Cespedes / Crisp / Reddick, but I'm probably just being a homer.
   62. GregD Posted: October 07, 2012 at 02:35 AM (#4257575)
I am waiting for a player to say, "Why did I strike out? God did it. I put my faith in him and he left me high and dry. Don't blame me. Blame God."
   63. Walt Davis Posted: October 07, 2012 at 03:02 AM (#4257578)
It is by fixating on Christ that he keeps from fixating on things that will destroy him. If you don't like it, don't listen to interviews with him.

But he could have chosen porn! Choosing religion over porn for an addiction is just whack.

Hamilton would be just a corner boy

Wire reference aside, it's true ... I am pretty much expecting whoever grabs Hamilton to shift him to a corner. I know he still plays a lot of CF and maybe not as badly as b-r says he did this year -- I suppose he could be Edmonds. But I think you're safer sticking him in a corner.

   64. something like a train wreck Posted: October 07, 2012 at 05:44 AM (#4257586)
what is it to you if he talks about it?

It is very little to me, since I don't listen to a lot of Hamilton interviews. But my life is less pleasant because promiscuous public religiosity is now normal. A trip to the supermarket is a little less pleasant when a cashier tells me "have a blessed day." Likewise when athletic events are made into manifestations of God's will. This type of behavior would have been condemned as vulgar exhibitionism not very long ago. It still is, but vulgar exhibitionism is the new normal. Not that it should matter, but I'm not an atheist.
#56 -- very good point. It is a reason to cut Hamilton some slack.
   65. Mirabelli Dictu (Chris McClinch) Posted: October 07, 2012 at 07:33 AM (#4257592)
A trip to the supermarket is a little less pleasant when a cashier tells me "have a blessed day."


Lighten up, Francis.

Your trip to the supermarket is a little less pleasant because the cashier used a word with religious connotations in saying something nice to you?

I mean, I'm a practicing Christian, and was never offended in Egypt when random storekeepers wished Allah's blessings on me.
   66. bunyon Posted: October 07, 2012 at 08:56 AM (#4257603)
I do agree that the public God we have today is, IMO, inferior to the private God I grew up with. But it's no biggy. I have enjoyed telling cashiers to "hey, thanks, you have a good one too" and girls wearing shirts that say "His" that they shouldn't so obviously wear their boyfriend's shirts.

I'm not sure any of the folks I do this with know what my point is but I enjoy it.



My only real point in this thread is that people are asking Hamilton questions and caring what he says. That gives him a lot of power. If you don't like what he says, don't listen to postgame interviews. It's all (or mostly) crap anyway - whether religious, cliche, incoherent, whatever.
   67. jack the seal clubber (on the sidelines of life) Posted: October 07, 2012 at 09:24 AM (#4257605)
I wouldn't touch Hamilton for any contract over three years, but someone will, I'm sure. The signs are not positive.
   68. DKDC Posted: October 07, 2012 at 10:15 AM (#4257618)
I mean, I'm a practicing Christian, and was never offended in Egypt when random storekeepers wished Allah's blessings on me.


Maybe you need more practice.
   69. bunyon Posted: October 07, 2012 at 10:34 AM (#4257631)
@67: I would want a fairly lengthy interview with Hamilton before signing him. His wild fluctuations in performance are worrisome, as is his past. I think it's almost certain we're not fully informed on the life of Josh Hamilton. But when he's good, he's great. If he would go for five years, that would be wonderful. Like any long contract, you punt the last couple of years. 5/100 would be fair with a little risk on both sides. 8 years is insane. Given that he'll get more than 3 years, if you want him, or, rather, need a big OF bat, going 5 should be fine.
   70. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: October 07, 2012 at 10:36 AM (#4257632)
Look, Hamilton has shown that he's terrible at doing things in moderation. He can't just have a beer. He can't just get one tattoo. When there's something he's doing, it consumes all his attention. Talking about Jesus all the time is one of the absolute least harmful things he could be fixated on. It is by fixating on Christ that he keeps from fixating on things that will destroy him. If you don't like it, don't listen to interviews with him.

Frank House once wrote that many players would pretend to be religious just to avoid being sucked into the drug or booze cliques. Apparently the aura of being "born again" was enough to make the druggies back off with the peer pressure, since who would ever question a "Christian" within a baseball clubhouse?

Hard to know just how widespread that phenomenon ever was, but at one point in the 90's, 22 out of 25 Texas Rangers were supposedly "born again" Christians back when "born again" Johnny Oates was their manager. It may not have been the dumbest of career moves for a religiously indifferent player to play along with the piety in an environment as pious as that.

(Not that any of this necessarily has anything to do with Josh Hamilton, as the sincerity of his Christianity can only be known by himself.)
   71. jack the seal clubber (on the sidelines of life) Posted: October 07, 2012 at 11:41 AM (#4257666)
@67: I would want a fairly lengthy interview with Hamilton before signing him. His wild fluctuations in performance are worrisome, as is his past. I think it's almost certain we're not fully informed on the life of Josh Hamilton. But when he's good, he's great. If he would go for five years, that would be wonderful. Like any long contract, you punt the last couple of years. 5/100 would be fair with a little risk on both sides. 8 years is insane. Given that he'll get more than 3 years, if you want him, or, rather, need a big OF bat, going 5 should be fine.


This is a fair summary.....obviously the buyer takes on some risk but for 5/100 they have the big upside particularly compared to similar contracts handed out over the past couple years......if it was my team (the Nationals, who know about paying big money to outfielders) I would not want him. I just think all the caffeine od, dropped fly ball, recent plate appearances where he appeared to be in a hurry to get back in the dugout are not plus indicators. Just based on numbers he would be worth it...
   72. Nasty Nate Posted: October 07, 2012 at 11:44 AM (#4257671)
@67: I would want a fairly lengthy interview with Hamilton before signing him. His wild fluctuations in performance are worrisome, as is his past. I think it's almost certain we're not fully informed on the life of Josh Hamilton. But when he's good, he's great. If he would go for five years, that would be wonderful. Like any long contract, you punt the last couple of years. 5/100 would be fair with a little risk on both sides. 8 years is insane. Given that he'll get more than 3 years, if you want him, or, rather, need a big OF bat, going 5 should be fine.


You don't really punt the last few years of a star's long contract - the players usually are still an asset for the team. It is more likely than people acknowledge that Hamilton will be a good to great player in 2016-2017.

Sure, Hamilton has some unique risks and some injury concerns, but if he didn't than a team would have to give him either $30 million a year to sign him, or a deal as long as Prince Fielder's.
   73. rr Posted: October 07, 2012 at 12:04 PM (#4257693)
Looking over the thread and thinking about teams' rosters, I think San Francisco makes the most sense in the NL and Baltimore fits best in the AL. A lot of big money teams have already made big/huge commitments to power hitters/outfielders, (Yankees, Tigers, Angels, Phillies, White Sox, Dodgers) and two big-market teams (Cubs, Mets) are probably looking longer view. I don't see Miami spending big money again so soon. SF could use a hitter and while Hamilton's personality seems an odd match with the Bay Area, Bochy, like Washington, is a guy who seems to know how to deal with the various personalities in a clubhouse. Baltimore needs to press this sudden marketing advantage, leverage their success, and work not to slip back in 2013.

I think two other possibilities are Boston and Seattle. Yes, Boston has been burned on some big deals lately, but Hamilton can hit, Boston has money to spend, and they need talent. Seattle needs hitting and while they are not a terrible team, are overlooked and off the radar in the AL West. Getting Hamilton would be a big boost for them.

All this assumes, of course, that Hamilton is leaving Texas--and I am still not convinced that he will.
   74. rr Posted: October 07, 2012 at 12:06 PM (#4257695)
And another team that makes sense, as noted upthread, is Atlanta. Hamilton would in effect replace Jones.
   75. BDC Posted: October 07, 2012 at 12:13 PM (#4257699)
this assumes, of course, that Hamilton is leaving Texas--and I am still not convinced that he will

Local media here in DFW have been poisoning the well in this regard for several months now, and the last week has made the poisoning even worse. It's conceivable that Mr Ryan will just ignore them – he doesn't strike me as somebody who overmuch gives a #### what people think – but it's just as possible that the writers have been cheapening Hamilton because they have figured out he's on his way out the door anyway.

It will be tough to replace a superstar #3 hitter, but one has to replace them periodically anyway. Time's arrow is a tough customer :(
   76. rr Posted: October 07, 2012 at 12:44 PM (#4257742)
It's conceivable that Mr Ryan will just ignore them


Sure. Leaving aside the well-poisoning, there is certainly a "baseball case" to be made for letting Hamilton leave, and trying to get a younger and/or cheaper guy in the lineup. Obviously the meltdown at the end leaves a bad taste. But at the same time, as a few people have suggested, I think there is a danger in overthinking it and thereby overstating all the downsides to giving Hamilton a long deal. Texas still has a very good team, and Hamilton is still a very good hitter.
   77. McCoy Posted: October 07, 2012 at 12:48 PM (#4257750)
I remember when people thought Hamilton might make a run at the RBI record.
   78. cardsfanboy Posted: October 07, 2012 at 02:13 PM (#4257888)
I remember when people thought Hamilton might make a run at the RBI record.


Doesn't that seem to happen every other year(not Hamilton, but someone)? In June they'll be talking about on pace or some other crap, and then reality rears it's ugly head.
   79. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: October 07, 2012 at 02:18 PM (#4257903)
Yeah, wasn't Darryl Strawberry or somebody "on pace" for 186 HR one year?

The Hamilton RBI thing this season didn't get as much play around here as it deserved, though, having been unfortunately drowned out by the "can Derek Jeter hit .400?" furor.
   80. cardsfanboy Posted: October 07, 2012 at 02:36 PM (#4257947)
Yeah, wasn't Darryl Strawberry or somebody "on pace" for 186 HR one year?

The Hamilton RBI thing this season didn't get as much play around here as it deserved, though, having been unfortunately drowned out by the "can Derek Jeter hit .400?" furor.


Not sure about Strawberry, but in the relatively recent past, you had Juan Gonzalez and Albert Belle chase for the rbi record(and maybe even Sosa...going by memory) Not sure if there has been anyone more recent that had people seriously talking about them in June.
   81. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: October 07, 2012 at 02:42 PM (#4257986)

I recall there was some talk of Manny doing it in 1999, when he had 96 at the break, but after Gonzalez had 101 at the break and flamed out in the second half the year before, I think the story didn't get the attention it otherwise would have (even though Manny finished the season with 165, the highest total in my lifetime if not longer).
   82. The District Attorney Posted: October 07, 2012 at 02:55 PM (#4258028)
I don't think I've ever encountered much single-season RBI record talk at all. I remember one year when Manny Ramirez had about 100 at the All-Star break, so there was some chatter then, but he fell off pace soon afterwards. (EDIT: As #81 says.) That's pretty much it.

It's really, really hard to do in the modern age, is the thing. In all probability, you'd have to have two guys hitting in front of you who both not only get on base constantly, but have little power themselves. Andrus is admittedly a great start towards that, but it'd help if he could get his OBP a little higher. Kinsler has had seasons where he'd be a big help (e.g. 2010: .382 OBP, 9 HR) and seasons where he'd be a big detriment (e.g. 2009: .327 OBP, 31 HR)...
   83. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: October 07, 2012 at 02:55 PM (#4258029)
Manny's 1999 was the highest RBI total in more than sixty years.
   84. cardsfanboy Posted: October 07, 2012 at 03:06 PM (#4258055)
I'm not a Red Sox fan, I forget they have a team in Boston, there isn't enough media exposure of them to remind me of this. :) (Ok, I claim brain fart)
   85. cardsfanboy Posted: October 07, 2012 at 03:33 PM (#4258104)
oops, I meant Indians fan.....
   86. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: October 07, 2012 at 03:34 PM (#4258106)
EDIT: Nevermind.
   87. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: October 07, 2012 at 03:56 PM (#4258154)
It's really, really hard to do in the modern age, is the thing.

Definitely. Wilson's 1930 Cubs had a .378 OBP. According to this article at BPro, the highest any team had reached between 1969 (when the mound was raised) and 2006 was .374, and that was by the Yankees in the strike-shortened 1994 season. The highest in a full season was .373, by (surprise!) Manny's 1999 Indians. And if Manny had played 155 games and batted .356 with a .723 slugging percentage, he might have come closer to the record. As it was, he played 147 games and batted .333 with a .663 SLG%. Other guys have slugged higher than Wilson but few played enough games or walked little enough (not that he didn't walk) to rack up the ABs needed to break the record.

It really does require a perfect storm -- a team that gets on base at an historic rate combined with a batter having an historic season of high durability and relatively few walks.
   88. Ardo Posted: October 07, 2012 at 05:37 PM (#4258277)
Josh Hamilton (whom I will always root for, in'shallah) is the most notorious streak hitter I've ever seen. When he's on, you really ought to walk him with the bases loaded, as Joe Maddon once did. When he's off, he's OFF; even bad pitches will get him out. He just picked the worst possible time of year to be off.

I'd buy a $5 Hot and Ready every day if it would help bring Hamilton to Detroit. Imagine that 3-4-5 combo! And he wouldn't be asked to play CF.

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