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Monday, December 05, 2011

Moser: Ron Santo, Sabermetric Star Before Its Time, Finally Makes the Hall of Fame

There aren’t many third basemen in the Hall of Fame; fewer still played during years easily comparable to those Santo played in. Via Fangraphs, here’s a look at cumulative WAR (Wins over Replacement Player, a stat designed to measure how much better a player is than a MLB-ready minor leaguer or easily signable free agent) among the HoF third basemen who played during or after Santo’s time…

In short, Santo was arguably better over time than his peers, even the great Brooks Robinson. By Baseball Prospectus’s numbers, Santo had two MVP-caliber years and finished just shy twice, despite never winning the award (a longtime knock on Santo’s candidacy). Only Mike Schmidt passed Santo before Santo’s health issues ended his career several years before a player of his caliber and position would usually retire. Which brings up the point that diabetes, at the time, was not well understood or treated; the usual comparison between yesterday’s players and today’s in the context of superior conditioning and training—pitchers pre- and post-Tommy John surgery, for instance—is only more dramatic in Santo’s case. Santo self-medicated with candy bars between innings, gauging his need based on his mood, a far cry from the technology available to today’s players.

It’s not just that Santo was underappreciated as a player, it’s that a player of Santo’s type was underappreciated until recently. He was a brilliant defensive third baseman, and for all his obvious skills as a hitter, his real offensive value was hidden in stats that baseball teams and nerds have only started to emphasize in recent years.

Thanks to Benny.

Repoz Posted: December 05, 2011 at 10:07 PM | 23 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: cubs, hall of fame, history, sabermetrics

Reader Comments and Retorts

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   1. frannyzoo Posted: December 06, 2011 at 12:02 AM (#4007630)
Here I was thinking Santo broke the BTF internets, but I guess it was the "NCAA College Football Rankings...." Nickelback and the Monkees.
   2. Steve Treder Posted: December 06, 2011 at 12:22 AM (#4007642)
It’s not just that Santo was underappreciated as a player, it’s that a player of Santo’s type was underappreciated until recently. He was a brilliant defensive third baseman, and for all his obvious skills as a hitter, his real offensive value was hidden in stats that baseball teams and nerds have only started to emphasize in recent years.

Yeah. The long-overdue inductions of both Santo and Bert Blyleven have to be seen as achievements of the steadily-growing influence of sabermetrics in the non-basement world.
   3. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: December 06, 2011 at 12:29 AM (#4007654)
As long as Santo made it before Jim Rice . . . oh.

Well, happy day all the same. Kind of a ###### shame that it happened almost a year to the day after he died.
   4. shoewizard Posted: December 06, 2011 at 12:32 AM (#4007663)
Hollow victory. Must be so bittersweet for his family and friends.
   5. Dag Nabbit apealing [sic] his own check swing Posted: December 06, 2011 at 12:35 AM (#4007665)
Yeah. The long-overdue inductions of both Santo and Bert Blyleven have to be seen as achievements of the steadily-growing influence of sabermetrics in the non-basement world.

Non-basement world? I guess we're no longer the underground.
   6. Steve Treder Posted: December 06, 2011 at 12:48 AM (#4007676)
I guess we're no longer the underground.

We're through the looking glass now, people!
   7. ray james Posted: December 06, 2011 at 12:59 AM (#4007691)
I think the author overstates it just a bit when he refers to Santo as brilliant.

Jimmy Collins was brilliant. Cletis Boyer was brilliant. Santo was merely good.

Nevertheless, it's about time he got in. Shame on the BBWA for allowing him to die before he got in.
   8. Brian C Posted: December 06, 2011 at 01:05 AM (#4007693)
Old world underground, where are you now?
   9. Repoz Posted: December 06, 2011 at 01:08 AM (#4007695)
I guess we're no longer the underground.

Well, when you read this quote today on FB from Danny Peary (noted film critic and co-author of Roger Maris: Baseball's Reluctant Hero..."When did people start thinking Ron Santo was a better player than Gil Hodges? A travesty."...you might think differently.
   10. Booey Posted: December 06, 2011 at 01:33 AM (#4007706)
Now they need to disband the VC (or whatever they choose to call it). All the obvious, no-brainer oversights have now been elected. From this point on they can only do more harm than good.

Congrats to Santo's family and friends. It was long overdue.
   11. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: December 06, 2011 at 02:23 AM (#4007736)
Now they need to disband the VC (or whatever they choose to call it). All the obvious, no-brainer oversights have now been elected. From this point on they can only do more harm than good.

Bobby Grich!
   12. Misirlou's got a busy day, he's wearing a vest Posted: December 06, 2011 at 02:28 AM (#4007740)
Now they need to disband the VC (or whatever they choose to call it). All the obvious, no-brainer oversights have now been elected. From this point on they can only do more harm than good.


That' what I was thinking. Is this golden era group going to meet every three years and discuss the same guys? Cause that's a recipe for getting more of them elected. No one wants to meet every 3 years and elect nobody.
   13. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 06, 2011 at 02:56 AM (#4007748)
Now they need to disband the VC (or whatever they choose to call it). All the obvious, no-brainer oversights have now been elected. From this point on they can only do more harm than good.

They should disband the older committees soon, but you still need 1970-present.

Grich (as noted), Trammell, Whitaker, Stieb, etc. Plenty of deserving candidates.
   14. Cyril Morong Posted: December 06, 2011 at 03:01 AM (#4007751)
Are there any statements from the committee or its members on why they picked Santo and no one else? I am glad Santo made and I think he deserves it.
   15. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: December 06, 2011 at 03:07 AM (#4007753)
Are there any statements from the committee or its members on why they picked Santo and no one else? I am glad Santo made and I think he deserves it.


Nah, but there is probably a screed from Murray Chass on how he and Miller are convinced it was that anti-union bastard Al Kaline who kept ol' Marv out of Cooperstown (his ineligibility for this particular group be damned).
   16. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: December 06, 2011 at 04:46 AM (#4007799)
I watched a few minutes of the press conference today, and it included a question to a few members of the committee (including Billy Williams and Tommy Lasorda) about why Santo made it, and why others did not (specifically, Minnie Minoso, who got 9 votes out of the 16 possible). Nobody remotely answered the question well, probably trying to avoid dinging all the non-inductees. Williams did suggest that Santo's off-the-field impact may have put him over the top with a few voters (Santo got 15 out of 16 possible votes...12 were needed for induction).

Something nobody has mentioned today: Jim Kaat almost got elected today. He received 10 votes, falling just two short of induction. Hodges and Minoso got 9 votes, and Oliva got 8. Nobody else got 3.

That sounds about right to me - from this era, we're pretty much out of guys for whom you could make a compelling case they belong. I'm not sure why Kaat did so well...I predict there will be a lot of pressure for the committee to select Minoso when they next convene...
   17. Something Other Posted: December 06, 2011 at 04:53 AM (#4007805)
Now they need to disband the VC (or whatever they choose to call it). All the obvious, no-brainer oversights have now been elected. From this point on they can only do more harm than good.

They should disband the older committees soon, but you still need 1970-present.

Grich (as noted), Trammell, Whitaker, Stieb, etc. Plenty of deserving candidates.
The problem is, they're going to elect guys like Mattingly, Dale Murphy, Ron Guidry...
   18. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 06, 2011 at 05:17 AM (#4007816)
It’s not just that Santo was underappreciated as a player, it’s that a player of Santo’s type was underappreciated until recently. He was a brilliant defensive third baseman, and for all his obvious skills as a hitter, his real offensive value was hidden in stats that baseball teams and nerds have only started to emphasize in recent years.

Yeah. The long-overdue inductions of both Santo and Bert Blyleven have to be seen as achievements of the steadily-growing influence of sabermetrics in the non-basement world.


This is my reasoning for suggesting (the horror) that Blyleven would have been a Hall of Famer without Rich Lederer's campaign.
   19. Booey Posted: December 06, 2011 at 06:14 AM (#4007847)
They should disband the older committees soon, but you still need 1970-present.

Grich (as noted), Trammell, Whitaker, Stieb, etc. Plenty of deserving candidates.

The problem is, they're going to elect guys like Mattingly, Dale Murphy, Ron Guidry...


Exactly. For every worthy player you mentioned, they're going to elect a few Jack Morris's and Steve Garvey's. Is it really worth it? I say no.
   20. Morty Causa Posted: December 06, 2011 at 06:14 AM (#4007848)
18:

Really? There's knowledge and there's convincing those not privy to that knowledge, and not disposed to believing it, of it. PR, salesmanship--call it what you will, it was vital. He had to overcome an entrenched bias. That's hard--as everyone who has ever discussed anything with you (or I, or anyone who really believes in a thing) will attest. It's simple logic.
   21. cardsfanboy Posted: December 06, 2011 at 06:56 AM (#4007860)
This is my reasoning for suggesting (the horror) that Blyleven would have been a Hall of Famer without Rich Lederer's campaign.


A year or so after his death, just like Santo.
   22. Something Other Posted: December 06, 2011 at 07:40 AM (#4007867)
@18: Yeah. I always think it's worth stopping off and taking a nick out of a guy's honorable accomplishments when I have the time.

@21: Ouch! We have a winner.
   23. Cyril Morong Posted: December 06, 2011 at 02:17 PM (#4007927)
#16

Steve

Thanks. If "off-the-field impact may have put him over the top with a few voters" then I wonder if other guys that think they are or will be close will start getting involved in charitible causes more than the otherwise might have. Will more guys try to polish their image?

Cyril

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