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Friday, April 05, 2013

Mother Jones: Is Your Team’s Owner a Major League Asshole?

“123
I guess I’ll go I’ll take a bath
there’s nothing else to do.”

The ranks of Major League Baseball owners include some of the richest men—and they are almost exclusively white males—in the country, as likely to open their wallets for a super-PAC as they are a top-shelf free agent. Viewed in the context of the competition, with its anti-discrimination settlements and SEC investigations, the Yankees are, like their Opening Day roster, fairly pedestrian.

So where does your team’s ownership rank? We took a stab at it, analyzing each franchise by its level of political activity (based on campaign donations and office-seeking) and relative degree of evil—copyrighted or not. Read below the matrix for the full breakdown.

Kansas City Royals: In 1992, when he was still president and CEO of Walmart, David Glass was confronted by NBC’s Dateline with evidence of child labor at a T-shirt factory in Bangladesh. His response: “You and I might, perhaps, define children differently.” As Glass explained, looks can be deceiving—Asians are short. Then he ended the interview. Meanwhile, as the Royals’ owner he’s pocketed profits without making any discernible investment in the on-field product. He also once revoked press credentials of reporters who asked critical questions.

Colorado Rockies: From the family that brought you factory farms and coked-up cattle! Charlie and Dick Monfort helped run the eponymous Big Ag empire until 1987. That’s when family patriarch Kenneth Monfort sold out to ConAgra, and the Monfort boys became ConAgra execs. Kenneth made his fortune by busting the union that served his workforce and replacing union workers with immigrant laborers—many of them undocumented. (At one point, the company’s annual employee turnover rate hit 400 percent.) Also represented in the Rockies’ ownership group is former GOP senate candidate Pete Coors, purveyor of super cold beer and brother to Joe Coors Jr., who once predicted that Armageddon would arrive in 2000.

San Francisco Giants: Charles B. Johnson, a mutual-funds baron and the 211th-richest person in the world according to Forbes, spent some $200,000 to try to defeat California’s Proposition 30, the sales and income tax increase that included elements of the state’s millionaire’s tax initiative. (Prop. 30 passed in November.) Other political expenditures: $50,000 for Prop. 32, which would have kept unions and corporations from using automatic payroll deductions to bankroll political activity, and $200,000 for Karl Rove’s American Crossroads.

Repoz Posted: April 05, 2013 at 07:36 AM | 62 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: business, history

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   1. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: April 05, 2013 at 08:09 AM (#4405027)
Hahaha, the nanny broke the link because it had \"#######\" in it.

This could really use expansion beyond just MLB to at least the other major North American sports leagues. The Bruin's Jacobs and the Panther's Richardson are Loria-esque.
   2. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: April 05, 2013 at 08:14 AM (#4405031)
$50,000 for Prop. 32, which would have kept unions and corporations from using automatic payroll deductions to bankroll political activity


That's a bad thing?


EDIT:
To be clear, I don't see campaigning against Prop 32 as a bad thing.
   3. JJ1986 Posted: April 05, 2013 at 08:16 AM (#4405032)
Being against tax increases makes one an #######?
   4. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 05, 2013 at 08:18 AM (#4405033)
I imagine the % of assholes who own MLB team-and major sports teams in general--nears 100%. I think the days of benevolent local ownership thinking of these teams as a kind of community trust--like a museum or park--is long gone, and there weren't many of those to begin with anyway.
   5. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: April 05, 2013 at 08:25 AM (#4405035)
Note the source. Mother Jones might have a different definition of what makes an #######.

And of course Shooty is right.
   6. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: April 05, 2013 at 08:27 AM (#4405037)
Since this thread seems like it could go off topic (is there a baseball topic here?) and it's sort of about $$, anyone care to recommend an online stock trading site for a complete rookie?
   7. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 05, 2013 at 08:29 AM (#4405039)
Since this thread seems like it could go off topic (is there a baseball topic here?) and it's sort of about $$, anyone care to recommend an online stock trading site for a complete rookie?

I use Fidelity and have no complaints.
   8. RMc's desperate, often sordid world Posted: April 05, 2013 at 08:35 AM (#4405041)
they are almost exclusively white males

...which proves they're all @ssholes!
   9. The District Attorney Posted: April 05, 2013 at 08:35 AM (#4405042)
Mother Jones: Do You Root for the Miami Marlins?
fixed
   10. Drexl Spivey Posted: April 05, 2013 at 08:39 AM (#4405044)
By all accounts, Mark Attanasio is a laid-back, baseball-savvy guy who also happens to run an investment company that manages some $11 billion in assets. Commissioner (and former Brewers owner) Bud Selig had this to say about him in the New York Times: "Mark is quiet, thoughtful—he has a personality that really fits Milwaukee, even though he's not from here. He has the same passion I have for the game, and he lives and dies with each pitch, which I can understand completely." But Selig is terrible, so never mind. Attanasio didn't give to any candidates in 2012, but his co-owners chipped in about $1 million.


So the negative thing about Attanasio is...
   11. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 05, 2013 at 08:39 AM (#4405046)
I use Fidelity and have no complaints.


Same here. The site is pretty intuitive and basic research is a breeze.

The Bruin's Jacobs ...Loria-esque.


This is not as true as it used to be. In the pre-cap days yes, absolutely, but since the 2005 strike and the cap that came in after it the Bruins have spent pretty close to the cap on a regular basis, annually make deadline deals to bring in talent and retain their young players. I think if he thought he could get away with it he would spend less but the cap makes it tough for any rational argument against spending.
   12. Joey B.: posting for the kids of northeast Ohio Posted: April 05, 2013 at 08:42 AM (#4405048)
Being against tax increases makes one an #######?

Did you forget where you are? You're at red diaper doper baby think factory.
   13. Matthew E Posted: April 05, 2013 at 08:46 AM (#4405049)
I can assure you all that Rogers Communications, despite their lack of political activity in the United States, is at least as evil as anybody else on this list.
   14. Publius Publicola Posted: April 05, 2013 at 08:49 AM (#4405050)
I think the days of benevolent local ownership thinking of these teams as a kind of community trust--like a museum or park--is long gone, and there weren't many of those to begin with anyway.


What a 180 though. Ewing Kaufmann to David Glass. Uhhh. Tough to be a Royals fan.
   15. Dolf Lucky Posted: April 05, 2013 at 08:56 AM (#4405054)
Since this thread seems like it could go off topic (is there a baseball topic here?) and it's sort of about $$, anyone care to recommend an online stock trading site for a complete rookie?


TradeKing is very highly rated, has the cheapest (or among the cheapest) commissions available ($4.95/trade), and has plenty of tutorials and education materials on their site.

I suspect that nowadays it's difficult to go wrong with an online broker, but TradeKing seems to be a good one that flies under the radar a bit.
   16. escabeche Posted: April 05, 2013 at 09:10 AM (#4405064)
anyone care to recommend an online stock trading site for a complete rookie?


Sure! I recommend you not do online stock trading, and instead put your money in a big index fund and forget about it, saving yourself money and time.
   17. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 05, 2013 at 09:18 AM (#4405070)
Sure! I recommend you not do online stock trading, and instead put your money in a big index fund and forget about it, saving yourself money and time.


If you are interested in the money then yeah pretty much. I am part of a Investment Club (We use TD Ameritrade - but only because we started with Datek long ago and were merged into it and have not bothered leaving - it is OK). The IC is very interesting and educational and keeps you involved if you don't think you will have the inclination (because there are regularly scheduled meetings - once a month in our case).

Putting in money pretty much every month has resulted in some money there (my share is $15 grand or so I think) and I have learned a bunch. Not right for a retirement vehicle (that money is elsewhere), but definitely worthwhile I think.
   18. morineko Posted: April 05, 2013 at 09:40 AM (#4405079)
So the negative thing about Attanasio is...


Probably how he made his money. Attanasio and his wife have a history of giving to center-left candidates and causes, so they can't ding him for that.
   19. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 05, 2013 at 09:48 AM (#4405084)
They might take issue with the center part?
   20. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 05, 2013 at 09:49 AM (#4405085)
Did you forget where you are? You're at red diaper doper baby think factory.

Zing! Bazooka Joe is looking over his shoulder!
   21. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 05, 2013 at 10:10 AM (#4405100)
They're all rich, so they're all ########.

They kinda let William Dewitt Jr. off the hook a bit. Dewitt bought W's failed oil company, wildly overpaying for it and making W. CEO of his company (not that I find any of this "assholish", but under the standards of Mother Jones it would be)

: Last year, Southern California beer distributor Ron Fowler headed up an ownership group that included the son and four grandsons of former big-league owner Walter O'Malley, the guy who moved the Dodgers from Brooklyn to Los Angeles.


What the heck is assholish about this? If you're going to make a stretch like that, you could at least say he produces a product that encourages youth binge drinking and causes thousands to die in drunk driving accidents.
   22. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: April 05, 2013 at 10:20 AM (#4405107)
Any discussion of sports owner bungholes that doesn't begin with Dan Snyder is kind of hard to take seriously.

Yeah, I know the article confined itself to baseball owners, but Snyder's bunghole qualities transcend all human boundaries.
   23. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 05, 2013 at 10:24 AM (#4405113)
Any discussion of sports owner bungholes that doesn't begin with Dan Snyder is kind of hard to take seriously.

Piker. You haven't begun to deal with real evil until you start following professional soccer around the world.
   24. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: April 05, 2013 at 10:41 AM (#4405128)
Piker. You haven't begun to deal with real evil until you start following professional soccer around the world.

Yeah, I guess I shouldn't be so provinicial. Let's have Dan stage an AK-47 duel at dawn with your soccer owner of choice in order to settle the dispute.
   25. zack Posted: April 05, 2013 at 10:44 AM (#4405130)
This is not as true as it used to be.

By all accounts, Jacobs was the lead warhawk in both of the lockouts.
   26. depletion Posted: April 05, 2013 at 10:48 AM (#4405137)
Did you forget where you are? You're at red diaper doper baby think factory.

Mother Jones was good at first.
   27. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 05, 2013 at 10:48 AM (#4405138)
As a bleeding heart liberal even I find Mother Jones' definition of an \"#######\" to be pretty extreme. Most of the examples in here aren't really that bad.

In fairness to MJ I will say that just about anyone who is at the top of their profession or has made extreme amounts of money has to be something of an #######. I don't think it's possible to do either of those things without being willing to step on people as you climb over them.

Yeah, I guess I shouldn't be so provinicial. Let's have Dan stage an AK-47 duel at dawn with your soccer owner of choice in order to settle the dispute.


Roman Abramovich says "bring it on."
   28. Random Transaction Generator Posted: April 05, 2013 at 11:14 AM (#4405171)
####### owners?

I'd like to nominate hockey hall of fame member, the late Harold Ballard.

What do you want in an ####### owner?
Cheap? Ballard didn't want to put names on the jerseys because it would hurt program sales...in the 1970s.
Sexist? "Women are best in one position - on their backs."
Racist? When staying at a hotel that was hosting an NCAAP meeting, he said to his associate "Did you ever see so many jiggs in all your life?"
Criminal? Served prison time for fraud.
Does care about tradition? Incinerated a famous broadcast gondola instead of letting the hockey hall of fame have it.
   29. Dale Sams Posted: April 05, 2013 at 11:17 AM (#4405178)
It's *Is* your owner an #######, not "Here are the reasons every owner is an #######\"
   30. esseff Posted: April 05, 2013 at 12:18 PM (#4405232)
Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me. They possess and enjoy early, and it does something to them, makes them soft where we are hard, and cynical where we are trustful, in a way that, unless you were born rich, it is very difficult to understand. They think, deep in their hearts, that they are better than we are because we had to discover the compensations and refuges of life for ourselves.
   31. RMc's desperate, often sordid world Posted: April 05, 2013 at 12:31 PM (#4405243)
For Ballard, you left out child rapist.
   32. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: April 05, 2013 at 12:39 PM (#4405252)
Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me. They possess and enjoy early, and it does something to them, makes them soft where we are hard, and cynical where we are trustful, in a way that, unless you were born rich, it is very difficult to understand. They think, deep in their hearts, that they are better than we are because we had to discover the compensations and refuges of life for ourselves.

Yeah, and even when they enter deep into our world or sink below us, they still think that they are better than we are. The envious call them "limousine liberals". (Apologies to F. Scott Agnew)

   33. RJ in TO Posted: April 05, 2013 at 12:40 PM (#4405253)
For Ballard, you left out child rapist.

Be fair. Alleged child rapist.

Ballard did have an amazing breadth to his scumbaggery.
   34. jdennis Posted: April 05, 2013 at 12:59 PM (#4405269)
oh the rickettses. how entertaining they are. can you believe one of them ran against nelson in nebraska? i never thought i'd be a strong nelson supporter ever, but that guy made me do it! every time i ever see the name ricketts on a ballot in nebraska, even for podunk boards, i'm like, choose 4? i know which one i'm not filling in!

imagine if they went historical. comiskey putting himself at first base even though he couldn't hit for years, and then not paying his players as an owner. connie mack making himself coach past the point of senility, etc. these modern folk don't compare. at least they don't force themselves into the game to the detriment of the team.
   35. TDF, situational idiot Posted: April 05, 2013 at 01:05 PM (#4405273)
I think you guys might be missing the forest for the trees here. Am I the only one who saw the team logos on the graph, with axes ranging from "Not Even Swinging" to "Political Power Hitter" and "Fair" to "Foul"?

For instance, the Giants are kind of high on the "Foul" guage, but I'd rank them higher simply for giving money to Karl Rove. My Reds, meanwhile, give some money to Republicans but still rank as one of the most "Fair".
   36. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: April 05, 2013 at 01:11 PM (#4405278)

at least they don't force themselves into the game to the detriment of the team.


Have you not heard of Jeff Wilpon?
   37. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: April 05, 2013 at 01:20 PM (#4405286)
at least they don't force themselves into the game to the detriment of the team.


Ted Turner tried to manage the Braves back in 1977, but Bowie Kuhn invented a rule that ended that after one game. 36 years ago, sure, but it's living memory. There are of course a few owners, not all of them Wilpons, who have allegedly had too much input into player acqusition decisions.

This picture from the article is sort of charming. And I like this line about Robert Nutting: Nutting's contribution to the general collapse of society has been negligible, however.
   38. AROM Posted: April 05, 2013 at 01:22 PM (#4405289)
Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me.


Go into any online real estate search and look at the properties valued in the multiple millions. Most have many more bathrooms than they have bedrooms. Much different than the 3 bed, 2 bath or 4 bed, 3 bath types that the middle class end up in.

Now that doesn't mean that all of the super-rich ARE a$$holes, but it suggests that they may HAVE more a$$holes than normal people.
   39. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 05, 2013 at 01:26 PM (#4405292)
In fairness to MJ I will say that just about anyone who is at the top of their profession or has made extreme amounts of money has to be something of an #######. I don't think it's possible to do either of those things without being willing to step on people as you climb over them.

see, i never stepped on people

just drowned them

//for shooty
   40. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 05, 2013 at 01:46 PM (#4405315)
Am I the only one who saw the team logos on the graph, with axes ranging from "Not Even Swinging" to "Political Power Hitter" and "Fair" to "Foul"?


I saw it but it was a bit confusing. I think I get it now; the Yankees don't do much politically and are kind of evil while the Brewers are very active and they're great guys to boot! Is that it?
   41. KT's Pot Arb Posted: April 05, 2013 at 01:48 PM (#4405320)
In fairness to MJ I will say that just about anyone who is at the top of their profession or has made extreme amounts of money has to be something of an #######. I don't think it's possible to do either of those things without being willing to step on people as you climb over them.


The Tech industry has made many an accidental zillionaire. Not just the Bill Gates & Steve Jobs, but their companies made thousands of millionaires, and some of those early employees made enough to be baseball owners. Woz perhaps (the epitome of the guy who got super rich doing nothing but being nice to others and helping his fellow employees), and dozens of guys at Microsoft. Then you go to Cisco, Google, etc, there are plenty of line employees worth hundreds of millions from just busting their a** early in the companies.

The difference between the builder and follower types isn't the willingness to step on people, it's the willingness to persevere, and a dogged belief in this vision of the world you have that often few others, or no one, shares. That may translate into a contempt for others as "weak", "lazy", "dumb", etc when you are proven right and everyone else is wrong. When the builder type is working in an organization it leads them trying to bulldoze their way to push the organization in new directions and bulldoze their way up the organizational chart.

But while the builder becomes an ####### more often than the follower type, it's not predestined. There are plenty of nice guys/gals who don't internalize all criticism and disbelief as long simmering anger. Some are good at handling disappointment, some are great at just letting go of bad experiences, some are just better people who realize that disagreeing with them doesn't make you a bad person.

When my partner criticizes one of my ideas, it makes me tremendously angry. I'm more experienced and more techologically savvy, so he just doesn't understand sometimes and sometimes my entire reasoning is difficult to communicate to him. But when I step back I realize that his perspective has value, and that usually some of his criticisms are right. I do hope if our little company ever becomes a rocket ship so successful that the world starts kissing my genius ass on a daily basis, that I never forget to step back and seek perspective.

But let's be honest, I'm very likely to end up being a complete ass-hole if my net-worth ever crosses into 8 figure territory.

If that happens, I do hereby promise to use my large vault of internalized anger for one very healthy, very good cause. I will buy control of the Diamondbacks, hire ChadBradfordwannabe to build the best farm system in baseball and create the smartest team organization in the NL West, so we can crush the dreams of Dodger, Giant, and Rockies fans on a yearly basis.*

* It's not that I feel sorry for the Padres, though I do. But I don't believe Padre fans have dreams anymore, at least not any worth crushing.
   42. TDF, situational idiot Posted: April 05, 2013 at 03:00 PM (#4405424)
I saw it but it was a bit confusing. I think I get it now; the Yankees don't do much politically and are kind of evil while the Brewers are very active and they're great guys to boot! Is that it?
It sure looks that way to me.
   43. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: April 05, 2013 at 03:03 PM (#4405431)
Go into any online real estate search and look at the properties valued in the multiple millions. Most have many more bathrooms than they have bedrooms. Much different than the 3 bed, 2 bath or 4 bed, 3 bath types that the middle class end up in.

Now that doesn't mean that all of the super-rich ARE a$$holes, but it suggests that they may HAVE more a$$holes than normal people.


No. The failing here is the assumption that the rich buy the multimillion dollar mansions, or other analogous toys. The plain fact is that, at least in this country, they do not. I mean, you might get a 34 year old trader buying one of those before he realizes what a schmuck he is. But generally, rich people are simply spending less on things like housing, cars, etc as a proportion of income than everyone else, and this becomes ever truer the "older" the money is.
   44. AROM Posted: April 05, 2013 at 03:25 PM (#4405467)
Not every rich person buys a 10 million $, 15 bathroom home. But everyone who buys such a home is one of the rich.

Edit: at least for now. Though if the real estate reflation team gets desperate, maybe we'll see some minimum wage workers buying those with no money down, no doc loans.
   45. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: April 05, 2013 at 03:39 PM (#4405493)
Not every rich person buys a 10 million $, 15 bathroom home. But everyone who buys such a home is one of the rich.


Sure, but your original post argued that the existence of stupid, ugly mcmansions means that there are more ######## among the rich. That's incorrect. Rather, there are rich ######## and poor ######## and middle class ########, and all of them tend to buy terrible, tasteless houses.
   46. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 05, 2013 at 03:41 PM (#4405497)
Sure, but your original post argued that the existence of stupid, ugly mcmansions means that there are more ######## among the rich.

I'm pretty sure he was joking. Guys don't make fun of the rich, they've suffered enough.
   47. Bhaakon Posted: April 06, 2013 at 12:39 AM (#4406021)
Sure, but your original post argued that the existence of stupid, ugly mcmansions means that there are more ######## among the rich. That's incorrect. Rather, there are rich ######## and poor ######## and middle class ########, and all of them tend to buy terrible, tasteless houses.


I've never understood the McMansion, TBH. If I'm going to spend several million dollars on a house, it's not going to be right next to a similar design in a middle class suburban development on steroids. What is the point of owning a mansion if your neighbor has the same one, more or less?
   48. boteman is not here 'til October Posted: April 06, 2013 at 01:22 AM (#4406029)
The McMansion is ersatz luxury, made to make you feel rich without being truly filthy rich.

A truly rich guy's mansion has secret stairways and passages so that his mistress can escape when the missus comes home early.
   49. Walt Davis Posted: April 06, 2013 at 02:50 AM (#4406036)
rich people are simply spending less on things like housing, cars, etc as a proportion of income than everyone else, and this becomes ever truer the "older" the money is.

It's true ... inheriting a mansion keeps the mortgage costs down. It's a shame more people don't do it this way.

And I like the spending less _as a proportion of income_ ... well, duh. Although I'd love to see what Buffet or Gates would live in if they did spend 30% of their income on housing.
   50. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: April 06, 2013 at 04:43 AM (#4406041)
The ranks of Major League Baseball owners include some of the richest men—and they are almost exclusively white males—


Great. Glad to see the author take pains to bring up this particularly meaningful distinction, since once MLB ownership is representative of the population as a whole and includes a signficant number of women and people of color, things will definitely change for the better. Oh, wait...

Judge Rules That Emergency Contraception Should Be Available to Everyone
Was TFA displaced? The above, good news is now what is directly linked to, while TFA is a ways down the page.

Sure, but your original post argued that the existence of stupid, ugly mcmansions means that there are more ######## among the rich. That's incorrect. Rather, there are rich ######## and poor ######## and middle class ########, and all of them tend to buy terrible, tasteless houses.
Too, too true. It's amazing how bad houses are. I've just had the pleasure of deciding this is the year I'll build my place in the woods, and it can be heated with one radiator, will run largely off a greywater system, and each bathroom will include an odorless composting toilet. While it takes some figuring none of this stuff is cutting edge, and not only is none of it is expensive, the cost of the insulation is more than offset by the nearly nonexistent heating bill, even here in the northeast. Looking around you'd think housing design and technology had essentially stopped in 1975.
   51. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 06, 2013 at 07:10 AM (#4406048)
Linking the homes of Gates and Buffett amuses me, given that each has a certain fame for opposite reasons (size + tech heaviness v. frugality).
   52. TerpNats Posted: April 06, 2013 at 09:43 AM (#4406068)
Although I'd love to see what Buffett or Gates would live in if they did spend 30% of their income on housing.
San Simeon?
   53. Drexl Spivey Posted: April 06, 2013 at 10:26 AM (#4406074)
San Simeon?


Is this a joke about Simpsons creator Sam Simon?

The man has only a few more months to live (his colon cancer has spread to his liver and kidneys).

He could spend spend his fortune on a house. He'd be better off spending it on less permanent things.
   54. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 06, 2013 at 10:42 AM (#4406081)
The man has only a few more months to live (his colon cancer has spread to his liver and kidneys).

Can't tell if serious...

San Simeon is William Randolph Hearst's castle that he built in Central California.
   55. OsunaSakata Posted: April 06, 2013 at 11:07 AM (#4406090)
San Simeon?


Is this a joke about Simpsons creator Sam Simon?

The man has only a few more months to live (his colon cancer has spread to his liver and kidneys).

He could spend spend his fortune on a house. He'd be better off spending it on less permanent things.


This San Simeon

I've never understood the McMansion, TBH. If I'm going to spend several million dollars on a house, it's not going to be right next to a similar design in a middle class suburban development on steroids. What is the point of owning a mansion if your neighbor has the same one, more or less?


The typical McMansion is in an older neighborhood 40+ years old in the close-in suburbs. As time has passed the income to live there has gone up from middle-class, to when they were originally built, to upper-class now. So if someone wants to live there, they have to accept an older with house without current amenities. The other option would be considerable renovations, either all at once or piecemeal. For some people, the McMansion option removes the older house entirely, replacing with a new, bigger house. An axiom of real estate is that you don't want either the most or least expensive house in the neighborhood. But some people don't care about resale value and are just in a measuring contest.
   56. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 06, 2013 at 02:08 PM (#4406165)

nce this thread seems like it could go off topic (is there a baseball topic here?) and it's sort of about $$, anyone care to recommend an online stock trading site for a complete rookie?

I use E-Trade and have had no complaints. I originally chose them because they had the best iPhone app among the brokers that my job allowed us to use. Other companies may have caught up to them by now in that regard. My job also doesn't allow us to use any of the discount brokers, but I don't trade enough for the difference between $5 and $10 commissions to be meaningful. I'm pretty much in the "buy an ETF and try not to get ###### by the next big market downturn" camp.
   57. Flynn Posted: April 06, 2013 at 02:24 PM (#4406171)
Current amenities/lebensraum. I didn't share a bedroom 'cause I was an only child, but my wife, my mom and my dad all shared a room with siblings. That seems to be increasingly rare now, and it definitely drives the building of McMansions.
   58. KT's Pot Arb Posted: April 06, 2013 at 04:35 PM (#4406254)
I'm pretty much in the "buy an ETF and try not to get ###### by the next big market downturn" camp.


There is one fool proof way to not get ###### by the next big market downturn. Don't sell. The value of your stocks doesn't change because the market got its panties in a bunch, only the prices.anyone who can't understand ths shouldn't own individual stocks.
   59. Dr. Vaux Posted: April 06, 2013 at 05:40 PM (#4406269)
You don't need a McMansion for your kids to have their own rooms. In a three bedroom house, you can have two kids and they both have their own rooms. In a four bedroom house, three kids. How many kids do you want to have?
   60. Walt Davis Posted: April 06, 2013 at 06:07 PM (#4406280)
but my wife, my mom and my dad all shared a room with siblings

Interesting family.

In a three bedroom house, you can have two kids and they both have their own rooms.

And where's the study? And the "multimedia room"? And where are the kids gonna rumpus?
   61. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: April 06, 2013 at 11:27 PM (#4406481)
...they have to accept an older with house without current amenities. The other option would be considerable renovations, either all at once or piecemeal.


If you're in the market for a McMansion and 'settle' for an older house, just write your contractor a check for 150k, and postpone moving in for month while he upgrades everything and adds your new study/aerie above the attice.

What do those of you investing in stocks as opposed to something like an index fund hope to accomplish? No snark intended, but do you feel you can beat the market as a whole? Once computer trading became ubiquitous and value investing became a very, very long game I gave up on picking stocks.
   62. JJ1986 Posted: April 08, 2013 at 09:49 PM (#4408066)
Also represented in the Rockies’ ownership group is former GOP senate candidate Pete Coors


Apparently friends with Rick Sutcliffe, so definitely an #######.

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