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Wednesday, April 18, 2012

Moyer becomes oldest pitcher to win a game as Rockies edge Padres 5-3

While his signing was viewed as a novelty act, Moyer has been the Rockies’ best starting pitcher this season. He didn’t walk clumsily into history against San Diego, instead embracing it with pitches on the corners and at all different speeds. Moyer worked seven innings, allowing no earned runs on six hits. His lone strikeout victim was Padres center fielder Cameron Maybin, who swung so hard he fell to his knees in the sixth inning.

The Brooklyn Dodgers’ Jack Quinn was the previous oldest pitcher to win a game, topping the St. Louis Cardinals in 1932 at 49 years, 70 days.

“I kind of wish I was a baseball historian, and I am a little embarrassed that I don’t know more about it,” Moyer said. “To have my name mentioned with the greats of the past is special.”

...This was vintage Moyer. And that’s saying something for a guy who has thrown more than 58,000 pitches. Baseball scouts armed with stopwatches and radar guns prefer pitchers bigger and stronger. The radar gun becomes the résumé. Moyer, as said before, is a raider of a lost art. He topped out at 79 miles per hour on his fastball and shrewdly blended in a 27 changeups and four curveballs.

Thanks to BG.

Repoz Posted: April 18, 2012 at 04:53 AM | 124 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: history, rockies

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   1. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 18, 2012 at 07:26 AM (#4109416)
It's a great story, but he's doing it with mirrors. 17 innings, 4 walks, 6 strikeouts, 5 earned runs... and 5 unearned runs.
   2. willcarrolldoesnotsuk Posted: April 18, 2012 at 07:28 AM (#4109418)
While his signing was viewed as a novelty act
By whom?

Maybe I just have a different impression of "novelty act" than the author? His signing was certainly viewed as interesting and out of the ordinary, but does that make it a "novelty act"? To me, at least, a novelty act is not just something that is novel, but also something that wouldn't stand on its own merits if not for the novelty factor. I'm pretty sure the Rockies signed him in the hopes that he'd get batters out.
   3. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 18, 2012 at 07:52 AM (#4109421)
... and 5 unearned runs.

...and 7 errors during Moyer's 17 innings.
   4. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: April 18, 2012 at 08:07 AM (#4109427)
I don't think it's mirrors. His GB rate is off the charts - he doesn't have bad periphs.
   5. stanmvp48 Posted: April 18, 2012 at 08:21 AM (#4109431)
I would have to point out that he has faced three very weak offenses, Houston, SF and SD. On the other hand the supposed ace of the staff, Guthrie, got pounded by SD the night before.
   6. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 18, 2012 at 08:30 AM (#4109434)
He's better than Mark Melancon.
   7. bobm Posted: April 18, 2012 at 08:41 AM (#4109440)
Moyer has a way to go before he becomes the oldest pitcher ever to lose a game.

Oldest pitchers to earn a decision, 1918-2012, from B-R

                                                                                 
Rk         Player    Age          Date  Tm Opp   Rslt  AppDec  IP H R ER BB SO HR
1      Jack Quinn 49.362 1933-06-28(2) CIN BRO         L  5-6 3.0 6 3  3  2  0  0
2    Hoyt Wilhelm 49.334 1972-06-24(2) LAD ATL L  4-6  9-9f L 1.0 3 2  2  0  0  0
3     Jamie Moyer 49.151    2012-04-17 COL SDP W  5-3 GS-7  W 7.0 6 2  0  2  1  0
4     Jamie Moyer 49.146    2012-04-12 COL SFG L  2-4 GS-6  L 5.2 8 4  2  1  3  0
5     Jamie Moyer 49.141    2012-04-07 COL HOU L  3-7 GS-5  L 5.0 5 4  3  1  2  2
6      Jack Quinn 49.078 1932-09-17(2) BRO CIN         L  6-7 1.2 2 3  3  1  2  1
7      Jack Quinn 49.074 1932-09-13(1) BRO STL         W  6-5 5.0 4 0  0  1  3  0
8    Hoyt Wilhelm 49.053    1971-09-17 LAD ATL L  2-3 10-11fL 2.0 1 1  1  0  2  1
9      Jack Quinn 49.044 1932-08-14(1) BRO NYG         W  2-1 2.0 1 0  0  0  1  0
10     Jack Quinn 49.039    1932-08-09 BRO CIN         L  8-9 1.2 3 1  1  0  0  0
   8. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: April 18, 2012 at 08:43 AM (#4109441)
He topped out at 79 miles per hour on his fastball and shrewdly blended in a 27 changeup and four curveballs.


A 27 mph changeup? Was he throwing the eephus pitch?
   9. villageidiom Posted: April 18, 2012 at 08:57 AM (#4109445)
A 27 mph changeup? Was he throwing the eephus pitch?
He rolled it.
   10. zonk Posted: April 18, 2012 at 09:04 AM (#4109447)
When Moyer wins number 400, I earnestly look forward to using my fusion powered mindPad to thought-type "when Jamie Moyer won his 268th game, Buck Bokai was playing T-ball."

/NEEERRRRDDD!!!
   11. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: April 18, 2012 at 09:05 AM (#4109448)
Moyer has a way to go before he becomes the oldest pitcher ever to lose a game.


~77 days. Say just before the All Star break.
   12. Lassus Posted: April 18, 2012 at 09:10 AM (#4109450)
#10 is an entire comment of wrong highlighting the single worst baseball-themed episode in the entire history of television, from now until the heat-death of the universe. That name reference alone makes me want to be jettisoned into a vacuum.
   13. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: April 18, 2012 at 09:19 AM (#4109460)
The youngest current major-league player is just 8 years older than Buck Bokai.
   14. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 18, 2012 at 09:27 AM (#4109463)
I don't think it's mirrors. His GB rate is off the charts - he doesn't have bad periphs.


A 3.1 K rate?
   15. SandyRiver Posted: April 18, 2012 at 09:36 AM (#4109467)
How solid is Satchel Paige's 7/1906 birth date? I'd heard rumors that it was more a guess than a certainty. Anyway, by the above date he was 47 at the time of his last victory in 1953. He also tossed 3 scoreless innings - one baserunner allowed - in 1965, as a starter. Makes one wish he'd gone another 2 and got the win at age 58 or 59 (haven't looked up that game's date), though maybe he'd been blown away in the 4th or 5th.
   16. bobm Posted: April 18, 2012 at 09:36 AM (#4109468)
[11] How do you figure 77 days? He's more like 210 days away, which likely means next season.

Rk         Player    Age          Date  Tm Opp   Rslt  
1      Jack Quinn 49.362 1933-06-28(2) CIN BRO         L  
2    Hoyt Wilhelm 49.334 1972-06-24(2) LAD ATL L 
3     Jamie Moyer 49.151 2012-04-17 
   17. Tom Nawrocki Posted: April 18, 2012 at 09:38 AM (#4109473)
Has any team ever won a pennant with a No. 2 starter who was 49 years old and hadn't pitched in the majors at all the prior year? I kind of doubt it.
   18. Howie Menckel Posted: April 18, 2012 at 09:39 AM (#4109475)

"~77 days. Say just before the All Star break."

That chart isn't yearsold.daysold?

If it is, then he won't make it this year.

   19. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 18, 2012 at 09:42 AM (#4109480)
Has any team ever won a pennant with a No. 2 starter who was 49 years old and hadn't pitched in the majors at all the prior year? I kind of doubt it.

Well, no one else has tried.
   20. JustDan Posted: April 18, 2012 at 09:43 AM (#4109482)
Yeah, when I first looked at chart in #7, I thought the dot was a decimal point, not a delimeter.
   21. Don Malcolm Posted: April 18, 2012 at 09:44 AM (#4109483)
While Ray's sentimentality is "in the bag" as much as the Sox were a lock for the playoffs last year, he has a point. Moyer's lowest K9 rate previously was 4.4--in 1996, when he went a combined 13-3.

However, there are at least 50 pitchers in the past 35 years who've had an ERA+of 120 or higher over the course of a season where they had K9 rates in the 3's. Down at 3.1 or so, that group dwindles to just nine, with none of them occurring since the early-to-mid eighties.

The most recent pitcher to have a successful season with the K9 rate Moyer is currently sporting was Chien-Ming Wang, who struck out 76 men in 219 IP while posting a 125 ERA+ to accompany a 19-6 record with the Yankees in 2006.
   22. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 18, 2012 at 09:48 AM (#4109489)
Has any team ever won a pennant with a No. 2 starter who was 49 years old and hadn't pitched in the majors at all the prior year? I kind of doubt it.


Probably not, but, then, I doubt any team has ever done anything before under those conditions - finished first, last, you name it.
   23. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 18, 2012 at 09:50 AM (#4109493)
Don: I don't claim 17 innings is enough to get a complete gauge on his K rate... although we won't need too many more innings, given that BB and K rate tends to stabilize fairly quickly.

I was merely commenting on the idea that his peripherals haven't been bad to this point. Although I grant: aside from the K rate, they're fine. But I simply don't expect him to succeed unless the K rate goes up.
   24. stanmvp48 Posted: April 18, 2012 at 10:13 AM (#4109511)
Especially in Coors, I would think. Especially when he faces better and more experienced hitters.
   25. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: April 18, 2012 at 10:15 AM (#4109515)
So far he's faced the Houston Astros, San Francisco Giants, and the San Diego Padres. If you combined their lineups, you'd still have a below average offense.

I'm rooting for Moyer, and I'm glad he hasn't been terrible yet, but I'm waiting until he beats major league hitters before I get excited.
   26. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: April 18, 2012 at 10:21 AM (#4109521)
This isn't based on much, but I wonder if the Rockies could really maximize their return on Moyer by spotting him against inexperienced, impatient offenses. He gets outs by out-thinking the hitter and getting him off-balance, and when he has to face St Louis, that probably isn't going to work. But if you keep spotting him, as best as you can, against these weakling offenses, he could win you 12-15 games.
   27. ajnrules Posted: April 18, 2012 at 10:23 AM (#4109522)
Moyer is going to shatter the loss record in his inevitable quest for 300 wins. Only 32 wins away!

Oh, and it is his first win in Coors Fields. One closer to Randy Johnson's stadium record.
   28. Eric in Madison Posted: April 18, 2012 at 10:27 AM (#4109525)
One of the more bizarre recent pitching seasons was Carlos Silva in 2005. 130 ERA+ with 3.4 K/9. There were several remarkable feats about that year, but the most incredible was that he issued 9 walks (7 UIBB) in 188 innings.

You will find if you look it up that, among the 25 fewest BB/9 seasons in history, 24 are 19th century seasons. And Carlos Silva, 7th on that list. And it's not just 19th century: the most recent season other than Silva in the top 25 is 1884.

Anyway, this discussion reminded me of that season.
   29. CrosbyBird Posted: April 18, 2012 at 10:42 AM (#4109548)
We have only three more years until Buck Bokai makes his debut with the London Kings. Selig better get cracking on the Planetary Baseball League.

It's been 15 years since the Predator showed up to menace LA, but it seems to have recovered nicely. Still, we've only got seven more years to perfect the Voight-Kampff machine or we're going to simply swimming in hidden replicants.

   30. Boxkutter Posted: April 18, 2012 at 10:51 AM (#4109559)
My favorite stat of the year was one that MLB.com mentioned. Jamie Moyer has faced 9.7% of all batters... ever.
   31. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 18, 2012 at 11:08 AM (#4109572)
One data point in favor of the idea that a pitcher can be successful in Colorado with a K/9 in the 3s.
   32. Monty Predicts a Padres-Mariners WS in 2016 Posted: April 18, 2012 at 11:24 AM (#4109582)
So far he's faced the Houston Astros, San Francisco Giants, and the San Diego Padres. If you combined their lineups, you'd still have a below average offense.

I'm rooting for Moyer, and I'm glad he hasn't been terrible yet, but I'm waiting until he beats major league hitters before I get excited.


Well, now hang on. Does a lineup have to be above average to be considered "major league"?
   33. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: April 18, 2012 at 11:26 AM (#4109583)
Does a lineup have to be above average to be considered "major league"?
I called them (yes, hyperbolically) not major league lineups because I'm not sure you could produce an above average offense even if you had your choice of all the players on all three rosters.
   34. puck Posted: April 18, 2012 at 11:28 AM (#4109587)
So far he's faced the Houston Astros, San Francisco Giants, and the San Diego Padres. If you combined their lineups, you'd still have a below average offense.

I'm rooting for Moyer, and I'm glad he hasn't been terrible yet, but I'm waiting until he beats major league hitters before I get excited.


Excited about what? You're often "Mr. Anyone who doesn't like this non-sustainable-yet-wonderful-baseball thing does not like baseball." What are you waiting for, why not here? No one's expecting 15 wins out of the guy. We all the know the story. There's *some* novelty but sad or not, he does have a role to play on the team--he's recovered well enough from TJ to make the team and buy the Rockies some time to get their minor leaguers more experience and for De la Rosa to get closer to his return date, and he got a well-deserved win.

The tone of the thread was set by DiPerna and most of you have stepped right in line with the tone-deafness. A really fun thing happened last night. Moyer got choked up in the post-game interview as he reflected on his comeback, saying something along the lines of "I love baseball, it's all I know."

And yeah, I realize one can't argue or shame anyone into excitement. But you guys are acting like a bunch of combo commie grover norquist killjoys.


   35. Mash Wilson Posted: April 18, 2012 at 11:32 AM (#4109591)
This isn't based on much, but I wonder if the Rockies could really maximize their return on Moyer by spotting him against inexperienced, impatient offenses. He gets outs by out-thinking the hitter and getting him off-balance, and when he has to face St Louis, that probably isn't going to work. But if you keep spotting him, as best as you can, against these weakling offenses, he could win you 12-15 games.


Most experienced AAA pitchers can probably win 12-15 games when used that way, don't you think? What they lack in Moyer's smarts they make up for with better stuff.

I love Jamie Moyer and am rooting for him to have a wacky ridiculous Shawn Chacon with the Yankees kind of year, but I'm not sure he's even a replacement level pitcher and my heart is hoping my brain is wrong when it says 'Moyer's probably going to retire around Memorial Day with an ERA over 5 for the year'.
   36. Mash Wilson Posted: April 18, 2012 at 11:33 AM (#4109593)
FWIW I don't think MCoA is unreasonable to use the term 'major league hitters'. You look at the Padres or Giants or Astros lineup and each team is starting 6 or 7 guys that would blend in perfectly in a mediocre PCL team's lineup.
   37. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: April 18, 2012 at 11:35 AM (#4109595)
You're often "Mr. Anyone who doesn't like this non-sustainable-yet-wonderful-baseball thing does not like baseball." What are you waiting for, why not here?
But I do like the story! I said that.

The thing is, if this story actually plays out (in the good way) over the course of the year, it'll be the best thing in the entire world. I'm holding down my excitement because I'm skeptical that's going to happen.
   38. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 18, 2012 at 11:39 AM (#4109602)
The tone of the thread was set by DiPerna and most of you have stepped right in line with the tone-deafness.


Huh? In post #1 I said "It's a great story." I then commented on what his current talent level might be. I'm not allowed to do that? The only thing that's acceptable is full blind fanboy mode?
   39. Mash Wilson Posted: April 18, 2012 at 11:39 AM (#4109604)
That's what's so great about being a pessimist. All surprises are pleasant surprises!
   40. Greg K Posted: April 18, 2012 at 12:02 PM (#4109629)
#10 is an entire comment of wrong highlighting the single worst baseball-themed episode in the entire history of television, from now until the heat-death of the universe. That name reference alone makes me want to be jettisoned into a vacuum.

Pedantic nerd alert! Bokai actually doesn't appear in the baseball episode, but rather the Rumpelstiltskin "aliens investigating the concept of imagination by manifesting themselves as the imaginings of the crew" episode. (which to be fair is also a pretty awful episode).
   41. stanmvp48 Posted: April 18, 2012 at 12:18 PM (#4109643)
Just wondering who the top offenses will be this year in the NL. St Louis led the league last year I believe and they lost a significant producer. I believe Milwaukee was near the top as well.
   42. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: April 18, 2012 at 12:19 PM (#4109647)
Has any team ever won a pennant with a No. 2 starter who was 49 years old and hadn't pitched in the majors at all the prior year? I kind of doubt it.



Probably not, but, then, I doubt any team has ever done anything before under those conditions - finished first, last, you name it.


No 49 year old pitcher has ever had as many as 2 starts before (Satchel Paige was the former record holder with 1), let alone be a #2 pitcher, let alone taking the previous year off, let alone played under those conditions for a pennant winner.

We're through the looking glass people.
   43. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: April 18, 2012 at 12:23 PM (#4109650)
The tone of the thread was set by DiPerna and most of you have stepped right in line with the tone-deafness. A really fun thing happened last night. Moyer got choked up in the post-game interview as he reflected on his comeback, saying something along the lines of "I love baseball, it's all I know."

A lot of orioles fans I've interacted with are saying "I'm not convinced after 10 games," "I refuse to get excited about this team at this point," "they've had good starts before and then collapsed," etc. Well, duh. Being happy about a few wins doesn't mean that you're committed to the idea that the team is going to the playoffs. Just live in the moment once in a while.

   44. PepTech Posted: April 18, 2012 at 12:34 PM (#4109664)
I said "It's a great story." I then commented on what his current talent level might be.


Technically, you said "It's a great story, but..."

What I *think* puck meant, and if so I agree, that it would have been nice to just leave it as "it's a great story" and put a period on it, or maybe even an exclamation point. But, this being BBTF, we all know THAT wasn't going to happen. :)
   45. Bob Meta-Meusel Posted: April 18, 2012 at 12:40 PM (#4109673)
I just love the "how old is Jamie Moyer?" stuff, and he makes me feel really young.

In 1927 the right fielder for the Pirates against Babe Ruth's Yankees in the World Series was Paul Waner...
Paul Waner was also the right fielder for the Braves on 4/19/1942 when Warren Spahn made his major league debut.
Warren Spahn started for the Giants on 9/27/1965 in a game against the Cardinals, for whom rookie Steve Carlton appeared in relief.
Steve Carlton started for the Phillies on 6/16/1986 against the Cubs. The starting pitcher for the Cubs was Jamie Moyer, who was making his major league debut.
Jamie Moyer was the winning pitcher for the Colorado Rockies last night.
   46. BDC Posted: April 18, 2012 at 12:40 PM (#4109674)
Has any team ever won a pennant with a No. 2 starter who was 49 years old and hadn't pitched in the majors at all the prior year?

No, but my 2011 rec-league club the "Punky Brewsters" came in third with the help of our #2 man Dennis "Satchmo" Derbinski.
   47. Greg K Posted: April 18, 2012 at 12:46 PM (#4109679)
A lot of orioles fans I've interacted with are saying "I'm not convinced after 10 games," "I refuse to get excited about this team at this point," "they've had good starts before and then collapsed," etc. Well, duh. Being happy about a few wins doesn't mean that you're committed to the idea that the team is going to the playoffs. Just live in the moment once in a while.

I guess it's just a matter of personal preference, people express their love for their teams in different ways. I'm a bit of a pessimist at heart, but that serves to make me more excited by the brief moments of glory. It's not going to last, so why dwell on that fact? Embrace the fleeting joy! The opposite position is a frame of mind I can't really wrap my head around. I don't want to speculate (but I will!) but it's almost as if some people don't want to look the fool when their hopes are dashed, or find blind faith annoying. I say, who cares what others may think...right now the Jays are in the Wild Card position and I'm happy!
   48. Monty Predicts a Padres-Mariners WS in 2016 Posted: April 18, 2012 at 12:48 PM (#4109684)
The thing is, if this story actually plays out (in the good way) over the course of the year, it'll be the best thing in the entire world. I'm holding down my excitement because I'm skeptical that's going to happen.


See, I think the fact that it's so unlikely to continue is why it's more important to enjoy it while it's happening.
   49. Moldorf Posted: April 18, 2012 at 12:50 PM (#4109689)
@ Bob Meta-Meusel

Six degrees of Jamie Moyer?
   50. jingoist Posted: April 18, 2012 at 12:51 PM (#4109692)
I am thrilled at both the exciting O's early play - 20 HRs in 11 games - who knew?.....as well as Jamie's success.

I hope both last; I have pragmatic doubts based upon historical precedents.

As Daffy Duck famously said " I can dream, can't I"!
   51. John Northey Posted: April 18, 2012 at 12:53 PM (#4109700)
OK, stats for guys 49 or older (pitchers) in the majors not counting Moyer...
Includes Satchel Paige and Jack Quinn (yup, that is it)
G: 40
GS: 1
IP: 71
BB: 17
SO: 19
W: 3
L: 4
R: 29
ER: 24
ERA: 3.04

So Moyer needs 3 more wins to have more than all others combined from age 49 to infinity. He has more starts already. His 5 unearned runs allowed are more than all others ever allowed. He needs 13 more K's to match the total all time.

Sadly he has struck out all 4 times up to bat so far so the hitting records for 49+ years old are safe for the moment.
Minnie Miñoso: 1 hit, 10 PA, 2 K's
Jim O'Rourke: 1 hit, 4 PA, 0 K's, 1 run scored
Charley O'Leary: 1 hit, 1 PA, 1 run scored
Julio Franco: 1 hit, 4 PA, 1 K, 1 RBI
Hughie Jennings: 1 PA, 0 H, 0 K
Arlie Latham: 0 hit, 2 PA, 1 run scored, 1 stolen base (!)
Satchel Paige: 1 PA, 1 K
Jack Quinn: did not hit at age 49 (last PA was a few days pre-his 49th birthday)
Total: 4 hits, 23 PA, 0 BB, 4 K's, 3 runs scored, 1 RBI, 1 SB

So Moyer does have the strikeout total of all other 49+'ers. Lets hope he gets 5 hits and scores a few runs. Would love to see him steal a base (hey, if Cecil Fielder could steal two at age 32 I'm sure Moyer could steal one at 49).
   52. AROM Posted: April 18, 2012 at 12:56 PM (#4109703)
Probably not, but, then, I doubt any team has ever done anything before under those conditions - finished first, last, you name it.


True, the only pitchers in history to pitch at 49 are Moyer, Quinn, and Wilhelm. The other two also pitched at 48.
   53. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: April 18, 2012 at 01:00 PM (#4109705)
I don't want to speculate (but I will!) but it's almost as if some people don't want to look the fool when their hopes are dashed,

I think that's exactly right -- it's just easier and less risky to be cynical. (Although I'm not trying to include MCoA in that group. I think he's just being analytical.) Especially with a team like the Orioles, where predicting failure is a far, far safer bet than predicting success.

It's the same with politics. It's very easy (and lazy) to throw up your hands and say "ah, they're all liars and nothing will ever change."
   54. AROM Posted: April 18, 2012 at 01:02 PM (#4109709)
While they are both listed as seasonal age 49, Wilhelm and Quinn both have July birthdates. Quinn's last game was 6 days after he turned 50. Wilhelm's last was 16 days short of his 50th.
   55. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: April 18, 2012 at 01:11 PM (#4109715)
While its less flashy, its equally remarkable that a non-knuckleballer could pitch at the MLB level - even if only replacement level - without cracking 80mph. Moyer wouldn't even be the hardest thrower on a mediocre HS team.
   56. Guapo Posted: April 18, 2012 at 01:16 PM (#4109720)
Just so I'm sure I understand- the theory being put forward here is that a 49 year old pitcher is not likely to have a long future playing major league baseball?
   57. bjhanke Posted: April 18, 2012 at 01:19 PM (#4109723)
I got confused by the list in #7, too. I thought it was decimals, not days into the year. Makes a lot more sense now.

Y'know, if all you have is soft junk that you can always keep low, Coors isn't a terrible place to pitch. Moyer might actually be GOOD there. His curves won't break much, but he now lives, like Stu Miller before him, primarily on a diet of multiple changeups. That makes him hard to take out of the park, and grounders, as far as I know, don't get any ballpark bonus, nor thin air bonus, from Coors.

I THINK (I don't have a complete "Paige's Familiar Quotations" at hand), that 1906 is the EARLY date that Paige gave people. That would mean that he was no older than that date implies. On the other hand, I am not at all sure that Paige was not still a major league pitcher when he "retired." He doubtless could still throw harder than Moyer can now....

- Brock Hanke
   58. Monty Predicts a Padres-Mariners WS in 2016 Posted: April 18, 2012 at 01:26 PM (#4109731)
Just so I'm sure I understand- the theory being put forward here is that a 49 year old pitcher is not likely to have a long future playing major league baseball?


I'd like to see more evidence. Just to be sure.
   59. SandyRiver Posted: April 18, 2012 at 01:33 PM (#4109741)
You will find if you look it up that, among the 25 fewest BB/9 seasons in history, 24 are 19th century seasons. And Carlos Silva, 7th on that list. And it's not just 19th century: the most recent season other than Silva in the top 25 is 1884.

In 1884 it took six called balls to earn a walk; prior to that, eight (or more.) IMO, any fewest-BB records should treat the 4-called-balls numbers separately from all the ones from 5-to-9 days.

Six degrees? I saw only four. Go to six and you might reach Alexander Cartwright.
   60. AROM Posted: April 18, 2012 at 01:42 PM (#4109748)
On the other hand, I am not at all sure that Paige was not still a major league pitcher when he "retired." He doubtless could still throw harder than Moyer can now....


Around age 50 he pitched 3 years for the AAA Miami Marlins, and was the best pitcher on the staff. Pretty much every pitcher on that staff got at least some time up in the majors so doing an MLE would not be difficult. I have no doubt at all that he could have pitched in MLB at that age. At age 59 though, harder to tell how much he could have contributed even with the 3 inning performance.
   61. bunyon Posted: April 18, 2012 at 01:56 PM (#4109763)
I think expecting him to be their #2 is wildly out of line and one would be completely non-curmudgeonly to point that out.

However, there is a chance he could hang around and be a decent #5 type and, if so, would be a fantastic and historic story. That should be your dream: a #5 starter who hangs around all year.
   62. SoSH U at work Posted: April 18, 2012 at 01:59 PM (#4109766)
However, there is a chance he could hang around and be a decent #5 type and, if so, would be a fantastic and historic story. That should be your dream: a #5 starter who hangs around all year.


My dream is adequate 4-5 starter who hangs around 2-3 years.

   63. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: April 18, 2012 at 02:29 PM (#4109791)
if all you have is soft junk that you can always keep low

We should all live so long.
   64. bobm Posted: April 18, 2012 at 02:36 PM (#4109796)
[51]

From 1918 to 2012, (requiring Age>=49), sorted by oldest

Rk          Player    Age          Date  Tm Opp    Rslt  AppDec  IP  H R ER BB SO HR
1    Satchel Paige 59.080    1965-09-25 KCA BOS  L  2-5    GS-3 3.0  1 0  0  0  1  0
2       Jack Quinn 50.006    1933-07-07 CIN BSN          W  8-5 1.2  1 0  0  1  0  0
3       Jack Quinn 50.003 1933-07-04(1) CIN CHC          L  0-4 1.0  2 1  1  0  0  0
4       Jack Quinn 49.362 1933-06-28(2) CIN BRO          L  5-6 3.0  6 3  3  2  0  0
5       Jack Quinn 49.359 1933-06-25(1) CIN NYG          L  1-7 1.0  1 1  0  0  1  0
6       Jack Quinn 49.358    1933-06-24 CIN NYG          L  2-5 1.0  4 2  2  0  0  0
7       Jack Quinn 49.355    1933-06-21 CIN PHI         L  8-10 1.0  0 0  0  0  1  0
8       Jack Quinn 49.354 1933-06-20(2) CIN PHI          L  3-7 1.0  1 0  0  0  1  0
9       Jack Quinn 49.353    1933-06-19 CIN PHI          L  7-8 0.2  2 1  0  1  0  0
10      Jack Quinn 49.351    1933-06-17 CIN STL         L  2-17 1.0  1 0  0  1  0  0
11    Hoyt Wilhelm 49.350 1972-07-10(2) LAD PHI  L  1-9    7-8f 2.0  1 0  0  1  0  0
12      Jack Quinn 49.345 1933-06-11(2) CIN CHC          L  8-9 0.2  0 0  0  0  0  0
13    Hoyt Wilhelm 49.340    1972-06-30 LAD SFG  L  4-8    7-8f 2.0  1 1  1  3  0  0
14      Jack Quinn 49.337 1933-06-03(2) CIN PIT          W  5-4 1.0  0 0  0  0  0  0
15    Hoyt Wilhelm 49.336    1972-06-26 LAD CIN  L  0-5    8-9f 2.0  0 0  0  2  1  0
16    Hoyt Wilhelm 49.334 1972-06-24(2) LAD ATL  L  4-6  9-9f L 1.0  3 2  2  0  0  0
17    Hoyt Wilhelm 49.329    1972-06-19 LAD PIT L  3-13     6-7 1.1  1 3  2  2  1  0
18    Hoyt Wilhelm 49.327    1972-06-17 LAD CHC  L  2-7    8-8f 1.0  1 2  2  1  0  0
19      Jack Quinn 49.323    1933-05-20 CIN PHI          L  6-7 0.2  0 0  0  0  0  0
20    Hoyt Wilhelm 49.319    1972-06-09 LAD PIT  L  1-5    8-9f 2.0  1 0  0  0  1  0
21      Jack Quinn 49.319    1933-05-16 CIN BSN          L  3-6 1.0  2 1  1  0  0  0
22    Hoyt Wilhelm 49.317    1972-06-07 LAD CHC  L  1-5    9-9f 1.0  0 0  0  0  1  0
23    Hoyt Wilhelm 49.310    1972-05-31 LAD SFG  W  5-4     7-8 1.1  0 0  0  1  0  0
24      Jack Quinn 49.310 1933-05-07(2) CIN NYG          L  0-5 1.0  0 0  0  0  0  0
25    Hoyt Wilhelm 49.307    1972-05-28 LAD HOU  W  6-5     5-8 3.2  4 3  2  1  0  0
Rk          Player    Age          Date  Tm Opp    Rslt  AppDec  IP  H R ER BB SO HR
26    Hoyt Wilhelm 49.301    1972-05-22 LAD SFG  L  8-9     7-8 2.0  0 0  0  0  0  0
27    Hoyt Wilhelm 49.296    1972-05-17 LAD SDP  L  0-2     7-8 1.1  1 1  1  2  0  0
28    Hoyt Wilhelm 49.290 1972-05-11(1) LAD NYM  L  1-2    8-8f 1.0  0 0  0  1  0  0
29    Hoyt Wilhelm 49.282    1972-05-03 LAD PHI  L  1-5     8-8 0.1  0 0  0  0  0  0
30    Hoyt Wilhelm 49.276    1972-04-27 LAD MON  L  5-7     6-7 1.1  5 3  3  1  3  0
31    Hoyt Wilhelm 49.266    1972-04-17 LAD ATL  W  8-3  8-9f S 2.0  2 1  0  0  2  0
32     Jamie Moyer 49.151    2012-04-17 COL SDP  W  5-3 GS-7  W 7.0  6 2  0  2  1  0
33     Jamie Moyer 49.146    2012-04-12 COL SFG  L  2-4 GS-6  L 5.2  8 4  2  1  3  0
34     Jamie Moyer 49.141    2012-04-07 COL HOU  L  3-7 GS-5  L 5.0  5 4  3  1  2  2
35      Jack Quinn 49.083    1932-09-22 BRO NYG          W  7-2 2.0  1 0  0  0  2  0
36      Jack Quinn 49.078 1932-09-17(2) BRO CIN          L  6-7 1.2  2 3  3  1  2  1
37      Jack Quinn 49.076    1932-09-15 BRO STL          L  0-3 1.0  1 0  0  0  0  0
38      Jack Quinn 49.074 1932-09-13(1) BRO STL          W  6-5 5.0  4 0  0  1  3  0
39      Jack Quinn 49.066 1932-09-05(2) BRO BSN          L  4-5 4.2  6 0  0  1  2  0
40      Jack Quinn 49.064    1932-09-03 BRO NYG          L  3-5 0.2  2 0  0  0  0  0
41    Hoyt Wilhelm 49.062    1971-09-26 LAD ATL  W  5-2  7-8  H 1.2  2 0  0  1  3  0
42      Jack Quinn 49.061 1932-08-31(2) BRO CIN         W 11-10 0.0  2 1  0  0  0  0
43      Jack Quinn 49.056    1932-08-26 BRO CHC         L  4-10 3.2  5 2  2  0  1  0
44      Jack Quinn 49.055    1932-08-25 BRO CHC          L  3-9 1.2  2 0  0  0  1  0
45      Jack Quinn 49.054    1932-08-24 BRO CHC          L  4-7 1.0  0 0  0  0  0  0
46    Hoyt Wilhelm 49.053    1971-09-17 LAD ATL  L  2-3 10-11fL 2.0  1 1  1  0  2  1
47      Jack Quinn 49.051    1932-08-21 BRO NYG          L  3-9 7.0  8 3  2  0  0  0
48    Hoyt Wilhelm 49.050    1971-09-14 LAD SFG  W  6-5  9-9f S 1.0  0 0  0  1  2  0
49    Hoyt Wilhelm 49.048    1971-09-12 LAD SDP  W  6-3  7-9f S 3.0  0 0  0  1  4  0
50    Hoyt Wilhelm 49.045    1971-09-09 LAD SDP  W  3-2  8-9f S 1.2  1 1  1  0  0  0
Rk          Player    Age          Date  Tm Opp    Rslt  AppDec  IP  H R ER BB SO HR
51      Jack Quinn 49.044 1932-08-14(1) BRO NYG          W  2-1 2.0  1 0  0  0  1  0
52    Hoyt Wilhelm 49.041    1971-09-05 LAD CIN  L  5-7    7-9f 3.0  0 0  0  1  1  0
53      Jack Quinn 49.040 1932-08-10(2) BRO CIN          W 10-9 0.2  2 1  1  0  0  0
54    Hoyt Wilhelm 49.039    1971-09-03 LAD CIN  W  6-5     6-7 2.0  1 0  0  0  1  0
55      Jack Quinn 49.039    1932-08-09 BRO CIN          L  8-9 1.2  3 1  1  0  0  0
56      Jack Quinn 49.037 1932-08-07(2) BRO CIN          L  5-9 0.2  2 1  1  0  0  0
57      Jack Quinn 49.034 1932-08-04(2) BRO PIT          W  6-5 2.0  4 2  2  1  0  0
58    Hoyt Wilhelm 49.033 1971-08-28(1) LAD NYM  L  2-9    7-8f 2.0  0 0  0  0  2  0
59      Jack Quinn 49.028    1932-07-29 BRO STL          W  7-4 2.2  3 0  0  1  1  0
60      Jack Quinn 49.026    1932-07-27 BRO STL          W  5-4 0.1  0 0  0  0  0  0
61      Jack Quinn 49.025 1932-07-26(2) BRO STL          W  5-4 2.0  0 0  0  1  0  0
62    Hoyt Wilhelm 49.021    1971-08-16 LAD NYM  L  0-6    8-9f 1.1  1 0  0  0  0  0
63      Jack Quinn 49.021    1932-07-22 BRO PHI          L  5-9 5.0 11 4  4  3  0  0
64      Jack Quinn 49.015    1932-07-16 BRO CHC          W  6-4 1.1  0 0  0  0  0  0
65      Jack Quinn 49.012    1932-07-13 BRO CHC          W  5-4 3.0  2 1  1  2  1  0
66      Jack Quinn 49.009    1932-07-10 BRO PIT          L  7-8 1.2  2 1  0  0  1  0
67      Jack Quinn 49.005 1932-07-06(1) BRO CIN          L  4-6 0.2  1 0  0  1  0  0
68      Jack Quinn 49.001    1932-07-02 BRO PHI          L  3-6 0.1  0 0  0  0  0  0
   65. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 18, 2012 at 02:42 PM (#4109799)
The thing is, if this story actually plays out (in the good way) over the course of the year, it'll be the best thing in the entire world. I'm holding down my excitement because I'm skeptical that's going to happen.


I, too, love this story. I hope he pitches until he's 60. That doesn't mean I think it will happen. The natural next step in the flowchart, after I said "This is a great story," was to try to decide what his current ability level is.

I hoped Bonds and Clemens had continued also. I never want these guys to retire until they have nothing left.
   66. Petunia inquires about ponies Posted: April 18, 2012 at 02:48 PM (#4109808)
I can't believe nobody has undertaken this project yet... I will give it a shot.

CF Pagan
LF J.D. Martinez
C Posey
3B Sandoval
1B Alonso
RF Venable
SS Lowrie
2B Altuve
P

Wow, that is pretty bad. Not a ML-quality second baseman on the three rosters. Outfield is a bit of a mess as well. I don't know a whole lot about the Astros or Padres, so I may have chosen wrong, but there's not a lot to get excited about regardless.

You could squeeze Headley into the lineup at third, shifting Sandoval to first, if you don't believe in Alonso, I guess.

But anyway, yeah, that looks to be a below-average lineup.
   67. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: April 18, 2012 at 02:55 PM (#4109821)
I just love the "how old is Jamie Moyer?" stuff, and he makes me feel really young.


Here's my favorite:

Jose Rijo was once traded for a 25 year old Rickey Henderson. He went on to win 111 games, retired, 5 years later got a HOF vote, then played 2 more seasons, retired again, 5 years later appeared on another HOF ballot, and that second ballot was 4 years ago. Moyer is 3 years older than Rijo.
   68. ajnrules Posted: April 18, 2012 at 03:25 PM (#4109861)
The 1933 Reds also had a 42 year old Eppa Rixey, who was still almost eight years younger than Quinn.
   69. jacjacatk Posted: April 18, 2012 at 04:04 PM (#4109899)
Roberto Alomar and Barry Larkin both debuted after Jamie Moyer and are in the HOF. The following at least semi-likely HOF inductees are eligible next year and debuted after Moyer:

Piazza
Sosa
Schilling
Biggio

And for 2014 if we get that far:
Maddux
Thomas
Glavine
Kent
Mussina

Might eventually be able to build a team of HOFers who've played their entire careers and been inducted while Moyer was playing.

   70. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: April 18, 2012 at 04:08 PM (#4109901)
Roberto Alomar and Barry Larkin both debuted after Jamie Moyer and are in the HOF. The following at least semi-likely HOF inductees are eligible next year and debuted after Moyer:

Piazza
Sosa
Schilling
Biggio


Plus Bagwell
   71. dlf Posted: April 18, 2012 at 04:24 PM (#4109915)
I liked Posnanski's nuggest that Moyer has either been teammates of or faced every position player who has won the MVP award since Schmidt and Brett in 1980.
   72. Walt Davis Posted: April 18, 2012 at 04:25 PM (#4109917)
As Daffy Duck famously said " I can dream, can't I"!

Well, it's a great line but the fact is that Daffy Duck is a fictional character and an animated one at that. So, in fact, he can't dream.
   73. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 18, 2012 at 04:33 PM (#4109925)
The TV listings on the date of Moyer's birth:

ABC:
7:00-- Father Knows Best (repeat)
7:30-- The Jetsons (A television producer casts Elroy and Astro in his new show.)
8:00-- Hollywood Special (later renamed The ABC Sunday Movie.)
10:00-- The Voice of Firestone (Arias from “Lakme” and “Boris Gudonov”; Chopin ballet.)
10:30-- Howard K. Smith News and Comment (“The American Fighting Man,” a Veterans Day tribute.)

NBC:
7:00-- Ensign O'Toole (The crew grumbles about the chef's food.)
7:30-- Walt Disney's Wonderful World of Color (Part 1 of a Beethoven biodrama.)
8:30-- Car 54, Where Are You? (Officer Toody's talking parrot starts repeating his insults about Captain Block.)
9:00-- Bonanza (Hoss agrees to transport a mail order bride to his friend, but during the journey she falls in love with Hoss.)
10:00-- DuPont Show of the Week (A documentary about a doctor's long shift at NYC's Bellevue Hospital.)

CBS:
7:00-- Lassie (Lassie and Timmy aid a duck who has laid her eggs on a train track.)
7:30-- Dennis the Menace (Mr. Wilson is forced to help Dennis care for a chimpanzee.)
8:00-- The Ed Sullivan Show (Van Johnson sings; Kaye Stevens sings; Paul Lynde in a comedic scene about an African safari; Vern and Betty limbo dance; Bob Lewis plays banjo and tells jokes; Gabriella Tucci sings opera.)
9:00-- The Real McCoys (The McCoys get a new housekeeper.)
9:30-- General Electric True ("Man with a Suitcase," a dramatization of a man who smuggled his fiancee out of East Germany inside a suitcase.)
10:00-- Candid Camera
10:30-- What's My Line? (Mystery Guests-- Joseph L. Mankiewicz; Jane Russell.)

Eight days later saw the debut of “The Beverly Hillbillies.”
   74. jacjacatk Posted: April 18, 2012 at 04:39 PM (#4109930)
Here's my favorite:

Jose Rijo was once traded for a 25 year old Rickey Henderson. He went on to win 111 games, retired, 5 years later got a HOF vote, then played 2 more seasons, retired again, 5 years later appeared on another HOF ballot, and that second ballot was 4 years ago. Moyer is 3 years older than Rijo.


In 1996, when Jamie Moyer was 33, he was traded straight up for a 26 year-old Darren Bragg. Bragg retired in 2004.

I'm kind of looking forward to him getting dealt this year for someone who wasn't born when he made his MLB debut.
   75. AROM Posted: April 18, 2012 at 04:39 PM (#4109931)
I'd like to see more evidence. Just to be sure.


There have been tow pitchers in MLB history to pitch a game past their 50th birthdays. Jack Quinn last a few days past 50, and Satchel Paige pitched at 59. So the evidence suggests if Moyer can make it through this year and onto next year's roster, he's got a 50/50 shot at pitching another decade.
   76. Walt Davis Posted: April 18, 2012 at 04:41 PM (#4109933)
Hmmmm...

yeah, you almost have to get one of the Cs into the lineup but nowhere to put them. Probably Belt over Alonso at 1B (if you go by potential) or Huff over both if you are Bochy. But, anyway, Posey/Hundley/Baker at C is too much talent to waste, gonna have to trade one of them.

There are a few decisions here that would have to be made on defense. Is Melky really -18 like he was last year? If not, he gets considered for LF. Maybin gets consideration in CF but that depends on whether Pagan is the +33 guy he was 2009-10 or the -17 guy he was last year (he can't be both!). RF is scary bad -- maybe Maybin in CF and Pagan in RF is the answer.

Now if we'd add the Pirates, we could at least slot McCutchen into CF and Walker for 2B and now it's only embarrassing at SS and RF which is a step in the right direction.

Hmmm...Jose Tabata couldn't hold onto positive territory so the Pirates now have 4 guys with negative OPS+ in their b-r "starting" lineup.
   77. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 18, 2012 at 04:44 PM (#4109935)
Jamie Moyer is old, has been pitching a long time, and has faced many batters. Some of those batters have even been Hall of Famers who debuted after Moyer.

Film at 11.
   78. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 18, 2012 at 04:44 PM (#4109936)
Nick Adenhart was born after Moyer's debut - and he passed over three years ago.
   79. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: April 18, 2012 at 04:48 PM (#4109939)
Jamie Moyer is old, has been pitching a long time, and has faced many batters. Some of those batters have even been Hall of Famers who debuted after Moyer.

Film at 11.


Go away.
   80. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 18, 2012 at 04:56 PM (#4109942)
Jamie Moyer is old, has been pitching a long time, and has faced many batters. Some of those batters have even been Hall of Famers who debuted after Moyer.

Film at 11.


At the time of Moyer's 50th win, he was already 31 years old-- in the same year, Ichiro Suzuki won the first of his three consecutive Pacific League MVPs, an accomplishment which will help him sail into Cooperstown's Hall of Fame.
   81. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: April 18, 2012 at 05:08 PM (#4109952)
and now Jamie Moyer has outlasted Dick Clark.
   82. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 18, 2012 at 05:14 PM (#4109960)
and now Jamie Moyer has outlasted Dick Clark.

The Billboard Hot 100 on the date of Moyer's birth:

1. Big Girls Don't Cry
The 4 Seasons

2. Return To Sender
Elvis Presley

3. He's A Rebel
The Crystals

4. All Alone Am I
Brenda Lee

5. Next Door To An Angel
Neil Sedaka

6. Gina
Johnny Mathis

7. Bobby's Girl
Marcie Blane

8. Don't Hang Up
The Orlons

9. Limbo Rock
Chubby Checker

10. The Cha-Cha-Cha
Bobby Rydell

Making their chart debut the following week: The Beach Boys
   83. bunyon Posted: April 18, 2012 at 05:18 PM (#4109965)
Paul Lynde in a comedic scene about an African safari

NSFW
   84. Perry Posted: April 18, 2012 at 05:25 PM (#4109972)
I just love the "how old is Jamie Moyer?" stuff, and he makes me feel really young.


I like this one:
Jose Oquendo played 12 years in the big leagues and retired 17 years ago.

Jamie Moyer is older than Jose Oquendo.
   85. tshipman Posted: April 18, 2012 at 05:26 PM (#4109974)
So far he's faced the Houston Astros, San Francisco Giants, and the San Diego Padres. If you combined their lineups, you'd still have a below average offense.


2012 NL RPG: 4.00
2012 SFG RPG: 4.45

In addition, at least two and probably three Giants would start on the Red Sox.
   86. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: April 18, 2012 at 05:39 PM (#4109979)
Go away.

For the first two months of the season Ray is the only person who gets more annoyed by the presence of baseball discussion than non-baseball discussion, because by definition nothing that happens in a small sample size is worth talking about.
   87. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: April 18, 2012 at 06:06 PM (#4109995)
Anyway, I'm a bit sad to know that in future generations the Rockies are the team that will get credit for bring joy to the world by taking a chance on this old war horse filled with nothing but dust and weeds. Any team can sign a guy to a minor league contract with roster bonuses in a year they are expected to finish fourth. The Phillies were in a playoff race, in August, they considered their options carefully and decided to trade two actual semi-sortof prospects for a guy who was about to turn 44. And then convinced him not to retire, and signed him to a two-year contract! And then another two-year contract!
   88. Petunia inquires about ponies Posted: April 18, 2012 at 06:15 PM (#4110008)
There are a few decisions here that would have to be made on defense. Is Melky really -18 like he was last year? If not, he gets considered for LF. Maybin gets consideration in CF but that depends on whether Pagan is the +33 guy he was 2009-10 or the -17 guy he was last year (he can't be both!). RF is scary bad -- maybe Maybin in CF and Pagan in RF is the answer.

Oh, yep, when I was doing a mental exercise Maybin was one of the first guys I thought of, but when I realized how hard it was going to be and started writing 'em down I forgot about him again. Martinez/Maybin/Pagan has got to be the way to go. Melky... I just don't buy it. But you're right, he's got to be at least considered. Okay, he'll be the 4th OF.

I don't know much about Hundley/Baker, are they better overall right now than Alonso at first? Stick one of 'em behind the plate and push Buster to 1B. Either way, we're making some hay at the margins but we're still not gonna get this lineup to MLB average quality.

In addition, at least two and probably three Giants would start on the Red Sox.

Well, to be fair, Posey would start on about 27 MLB teams. Point taken as far as the OF, but almost anybody's starting-caliber outfielders would be "starting" for the Red Sox right now, since they have 2 starting outfielders on the DL.
   89. willcarrolldoesnotsuk Posted: April 18, 2012 at 06:23 PM (#4110016)
The youngest current major-league player is just 8 years older than Buck Bokai.
Unfortunately, this isn't certain. We have already diverged off of the true universe; for example, in the true universe, the Eugenics Wars occurred in the 1990s.

I posit that the divergence of our universe from the true universe was caused by the documentaries of future history having been transmitted back in time from the 23rd Century to the 1960s. Knowledge of those events altered the flow of history.
   90. tshipman Posted: April 18, 2012 at 06:25 PM (#4110018)
Well, to be fair, Posey would start on about 27 MLB teams. Point taken as far as the OF, but almost anybody's starting-caliber outfielders would be "starting" for the Red Sox right now, since they have 2 startings outfielders on the DL.


Sandoval would as well. People seem to not realize that Sandoval is really, really good. The list of 3b who are better than Sandoval is short: Longoria, Ramirez if his defense is average and the bat bounces back, maybe Cabrera depending on his defense, and that's really about it (unless you think A-Rod will bounce back).

Sandoval put up 6 WAR last year in 117 games. That's really freaking good.
   91. Petunia inquires about ponies Posted: April 18, 2012 at 06:38 PM (#4110023)
Sure. Going back to the lineup in [66], the only clearly above average position players on all 3 teams are Posey and Sandoval. Sandoval is really good. The Giants' lineup still reeks.

EDIT: I don't have a dog in this race, to the extent there is a race. I just thought it was a fun thought experiment to see how good a 1 thru 8 could be constructed from SF, SD and HOU. Turns out, not very.
   92. bobm Posted: April 18, 2012 at 06:41 PM (#4110027)
[30] My favorite stat of the year was one that MLB.com mentioned. Jamie Moyer has faced 9.7% of all batters... ever.

BB REF PI says:

1. Moyer has faced 1,425 unique batters.
2. "Spanning Multiple Seasons or entire Careers, From 1901 to 2012, sorted by greatest Home Runs ... Seasons/Careers found: 15,816"

That's 9.0%. Still a pretty cool stat.

Most popular first names (of 512) for batters Moyer has faced:

 1 Mike  47
 2 Chris 34
 3 Jose  25
 4 Mark  23
 4 Brian 23
 6 Jeff  21
 6 John  21
 8 Jason 20
 9 Kevin 19
10 Scott 18


Least popular:

306 Tied @ 1

Most popular last names (of 1,082) for batters Moyer has faced:

 1  Johnson 15
 2 Martinez 14
 3 Gonzalez 13
 4   Wilson 10
 5 Williams  9
 5    Davis  9
 7    Smith  8
 7    Young  8
 7    Perez  8
 7    Jones  8
 7     Diaz  8
 7 Anderson  8



Least popular:

924 Tied @ 1
   93. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: April 18, 2012 at 06:41 PM (#4110028)
Hey, if you construct a lineup from the teams leading the NL East, NL Central, and NL West, you still have Daniel Descalso playing second base.
   94. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: April 18, 2012 at 06:49 PM (#4110033)
I'll rehash this one here:

When Moyer was born, John F. Kennedy was President, and would not be assassinated for almost exactly one more year.

When Moyer made his MLB debut, George H. W. Bush was the Vice President. Two years later, he became the President. Twelve years later, his son became the President. Eight years after that, another guy became the President, who is only one year older than...Jamie Moyer.
   95. ajnrules Posted: April 18, 2012 at 07:20 PM (#4110062)
This is a bit morbid, but a total of 41 players younger than Jamie Moyer have tragically passed away, including one who died 19 years ago, and two who were born after Moyer's major league debut debut. Here's the full list:

Steve Olin (1965-1993)
Cliff Young (1964-1993)
William Suero (1966-1995)
Jose Oliva (1971-1997)
Ken Robinson (1969-1999)
Tim Layana (1964-1999)
Andujar Cedeno (1969-2000)
John LeRoy (1975-2001)
Miguel Del Toro (1972-2001)
Mike Darr (1976-2002)
Darryl Kile (1968-2002)
Steve Bechler (1979-2003)
Dernell Stenson (1978-2003)
Ken Caminiti (1963-2004)
Brian Traxler (1967-2004)
Mario Encarnacion (1975-2005)
Carlos Martinez (1965-2006)
Russ Swan (1964-2006)
Ron Jones (1964-2006
Cory Lidle (1972-2006)
Josh Hancock (1978-2007)
Red Beck (1968-2007)
Mike Coolbaugh (1972-2007)
Joe Kennedy (1979-2007)
John Marzano (1963-2008)
Geremi Gonzalez (1975-2008)
Darrin Winston (1966-2008)
Kevin Foster (1969-2008)
Nick Adenhart (1986-2009)***
Jessie Hollins (1970-2009)
Brian Powell (1973-2009)
Jose Lima (1972-2010)
Jeriome Robertson (1977-2010)
Oscar Azocar (1965-2010)
Francisco de la Rosa (1966-2011)
Howard Hilton (1964-2011)
Hideki Irabu (1969-2011)
Greg Halman (1987-2011)***
Rosman Garcia (1979-2011)
Danny Clyburn (1974-2012)
Terry Mathews (1964-2012)

*** - 
born after Moyer's major league debut 
   96. Karl from NY Posted: April 18, 2012 at 08:44 PM (#4110151)
[30] My favorite stat of the year was one that MLB.com mentioned. Jamie Moyer has faced 9.7% of all batters... ever.

BB REF PI says:

1. Moyer has faced 1,425 unique batters.
2. "Spanning Multiple Seasons or entire Careers, From 1901 to 2012, sorted by greatest Home Runs ... Seasons/Careers found: 15,816"

That's 9.0%. Still a pretty cool stat.

Does that query include or exclude players who never batted? That could be the discrepancy, if MLB's stat is 9.7% of batters but PI says 9.0% of players.
   97. bobm Posted: April 18, 2012 at 09:29 PM (#4110200)
[96] Yes, it probably includes players who never batted.

Spanning Multiple Seasons or entire Careers, From 1901 to 2012, (requiring PA>=0), sorted by greatest Plate Appearances = 15,816

Spanning Multiple Seasons or entire Careers, From 1901 to 2012, (requiring PA>=1), sorted by greatest Plate Appearances = 14,139 -> 10.1% faced by Moyer

   98. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: April 18, 2012 at 09:40 PM (#4110225)
I for one would like to know about Jack Quinn. I hadn't heard of him until Moyer broke his record.
   99. DanG Posted: April 18, 2012 at 10:01 PM (#4110238)
Jack Quinn. I hadn't heard of him
John Picus Quinn at the SABR Bioproject.
   100. Monty Predicts a Padres-Mariners WS in 2016 Posted: April 18, 2012 at 10:16 PM (#4110244)
John Picus Quinn at the SABR Bioproject.


About halfway through that, this sentence appears:

"Much of the above speculation about Jack Quinn's birth and ancestry is probably misguided."

Then a whole different date and birth country are brought in. Weird!
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