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Wednesday, April 18, 2012

Moyer becomes oldest pitcher to win a game as Rockies edge Padres 5-3

While his signing was viewed as a novelty act, Moyer has been the Rockies’ best starting pitcher this season. He didn’t walk clumsily into history against San Diego, instead embracing it with pitches on the corners and at all different speeds. Moyer worked seven innings, allowing no earned runs on six hits. His lone strikeout victim was Padres center fielder Cameron Maybin, who swung so hard he fell to his knees in the sixth inning.

The Brooklyn Dodgers’ Jack Quinn was the previous oldest pitcher to win a game, topping the St. Louis Cardinals in 1932 at 49 years, 70 days.

“I kind of wish I was a baseball historian, and I am a little embarrassed that I don’t know more about it,” Moyer said. “To have my name mentioned with the greats of the past is special.”

...This was vintage Moyer. And that’s saying something for a guy who has thrown more than 58,000 pitches. Baseball scouts armed with stopwatches and radar guns prefer pitchers bigger and stronger. The radar gun becomes the résumé. Moyer, as said before, is a raider of a lost art. He topped out at 79 miles per hour on his fastball and shrewdly blended in a 27 changeups and four curveballs.

Thanks to BG.

Repoz Posted: April 18, 2012 at 04:53 AM | 124 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: history, rockies

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Page 2 of 2 pages  < 1 2
   101. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: April 18, 2012 at 10:22 PM (#4110247)
Then a whole different date and birth country are brought in. Weird!

Yeah, that really confused me, since the only thing I knew about him was that according to BB-ref he was born in the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

Edit for the benefit of those who haven't seen the first hundred comments: This comment is not about Jamie Moyer.
   102. Karl from NY Posted: April 18, 2012 at 10:27 PM (#4110248)
Hideki Irabu (1969-2011)

Holy crap, I completely missed that had happened. Found the BBTF thread here. Judging by the date, I was on vacation that week.
   103. Tuque Posted: April 18, 2012 at 11:57 PM (#4110279)
Well, it's a great line but the fact is that Daffy Duck is a fictional character and an animated one at that. So, in fact, he can't dream.

Geez. Let's hope your children don't want to be screenwriters.
   104. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: April 19, 2012 at 12:03 AM (#4110280)
Holy crap, I completely missed that had happened. Found the BBTF thread here. Judging by the date, I was on vacation that week.


You mean, your friends didn't bombard you with 'Fat Toad is Dead' text messages that week? Did you lose your cell phone while on vacation?
   105. Ron J Posted: April 19, 2012 at 04:26 AM (#4110321)
#28 You know what's even more remarkable about Silva's 2005 is that he went to 3 balls in only 47 PAs (including his two IBBs)

It's fascinating to see the breakdown. of the 3 ball PAs

Count   #  PA BB IBB      BA   OBP   SLG
3-0     8   4  3   2   1.000 1.000 1.000
3
-1    23  13  4   0    .333  .538  .667
3
-2    30  30  2   0    .393  .433  .679 


(In case it's not clear, he was at 3-0 8 times. 4 were resolved at that count. Got to 3-1 23 times. 13 were resolved at that count)
   106. zachtoma Posted: April 19, 2012 at 04:57 AM (#4110323)
CF Pagan
LF J.D. Martinez
C Posey
3B Sandoval
1B Alonso
RF Venable
SS Lowrie
2B Altuve
P


You aren't going to take Cameron Maybin? He'd probably be the third best player in that lineup (after Posey/Sandoval)
   107. Karl from NY Posted: April 19, 2012 at 09:33 AM (#4110383)
You mean, your friends didn't bombard you with 'Fat Toad is Dead' text messages that week?

Nope, I don't make friends with Yankee fans.
   108. JPWF1313 Posted: April 19, 2012 at 10:07 AM (#4110412)
I can't believe nobody has undertaken this project yet... I will give it a shot.

CF Pagan
LF J.D. Martinez
C Posey
3B Sandoval
1B Alonso
RF Venable
SS Lowrie
2B Altuve
P

Wow, that is pretty bad. Not a ML-quality second baseman on the three rosters. Outfield is a bit of a mess as well. I don't know a whole lot about the Astros or Padres, so I may have chosen wrong, but there's not a lot to get excited about regardless.

You could squeeze Headley into the lineup at third, shifting Sandoval to first, if you don't believe in Alonso, I guess.
Yes that's what I'd do, plus as hitters I'd take either Schierholtz or Melky over Venable, and I'd probably take Belt over Alonso... but there's no "right" answer for this conundrum
   109. John Northey Posted: April 19, 2012 at 10:18 AM (#4110424)
An interesting thing about this Moyer at 49 stuff is how the records for age he is breaking are very old records. Quinn last played in 1933, Paige in 1965, Wilhelm in 1972. Seems odd with medical science improving that someone else hasn't cracked age 49 in the majors.
   110. Tom Nawrocki Posted: April 19, 2012 at 10:20 AM (#4110426)
Orlando Hudson is a perfectly cromulent second baseman. I don't know why no one has listed him in these lineups.

I understand that the Padres are (a) a bad team (b) playing on the West Coast (c) in an extreme pitcher's park, which means their hitters are always going to be overlooked. They have good players at catcher and third base (not just mediocre major leaguers, but actual good players) but part of the issue here is that they double up with the Giants there.
   111. RMc's Unenviable Situation Posted: April 19, 2012 at 10:24 AM (#4110431)
The TV listings on the date of Moyer's birth:

It was a Sunday; here were the daytime (before 7pm) network schedules that day:

ABC
---
before 1:30pm (!) Local or off-air
1:30 Inside Politics (public affairs)
2:00 Directions '63 (religious)
2:30 Adlai Stevenson Show (yes, really!)
3:00 Issues and Answers (this show ran from 1960-81)
3:30 AFL Pro Football (yes!), followed by "Pro Football Scoreboard" at 6:15 or so
6:30 Winston Churchill (documentary)

CBS
---
10:00 Lamp Unto My Feet (religious)
10:30 Look Up And Live (religious)
11:00 Camera Three (variety; these three shows ran some 25 years, c. 1955-80)
11:30 (local)
12:30 CBS Washington Report
1:00 (local)
1:45 NFL Kickoff
2:00 NFL Pro Football (note that there were only two pro football games on per week, unlike now)
5:00 Original Amateur Hour
5:30 GE College Bowl (sigh.)

Why can't I live in a world where there's a place on TV -- somewhere, anywhere -- for a show like the College Bowl? Why? There's a million g@ddamn networks, and they all air the same retarded reality shows, endless cop and courtroom dramas, idiot political commentators, and poker. No room for a show like the College Bowl, a show that features smart kids answering interesting questions. No, not even half an hour a week. Get lost, egghead.

Sometimes I just hate the modern world. Hate it.

6:00 The Twentieth Century (documentary)
6:30 Password (yea!)

NBC
---
1:30 Frontiers of Faith (religious)
2:00 local; no football on NBC, folks (they would get the rights to the AFL in 1966)
4:30 This is NBC News (and don't you forget it!)
5:00 Update (public affairs)
5:30 Bullwinkle Show (oh, yeah!)
6:00 Meet The Press (originally aired in prime time in the 40s, then slowly drifted backward into early afternoon)
6:30 McKeever and the Colonel (sitcom)

The past is a different country, isn't it?
   112. Der-K: downgraded to lurker Posted: April 19, 2012 at 10:36 AM (#4110444)
There's talk that Hudson may be in danger of being waived - he's off to an awful start.
   113. ajnrules Posted: April 19, 2012 at 10:53 AM (#4110459)
Seems odd with medical science improving that someone else hasn't cracked age 49 in the majors

Julio Franco was 49 in 2007. It's just that as an outfielder the pitching records Moyer is challenging don't apply to him.
   114. Jose Bautista Bobblehead Day Posted: April 19, 2012 at 11:21 AM (#4110483)
There's a section in Moneyball that describes the pitcher/hitter battle between Jamie Moyer and Scott Hatteberg. In it, Michael Lewis writes that Moyer's fastball tops out at about 80 miles per hour.

Moneyball was written 10 years ago.
   115. SoCalDemon Posted: April 19, 2012 at 12:26 PM (#4110541)
Re #109: I would have no idea how to test this, but it seems like there used to be a lot more "bad" old seasons, and "bad" young (<23) seasons; could it be that teams are getting better at knowing when prospects are better for the major leagues, and knowing when veterans no longer have anything to offer? (I am thinking of Jermaine Dye, Derrick Lee, etc.; guys with superficially cromulent stats). Just a thought.

Also, I am so, so glad that Moyer is still in baseball. Tuesday...that was awesome!
   116. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: April 19, 2012 at 12:54 PM (#4110571)
So, I am a bit confused with all of this talk about terrible offenses, but when I look up those teams and see how many runs they have score they all seem to be in the middle of MLB. Which leads me to assume, apparently naively, that said offenses are in fact average. Am I missing something here or is there just a whole lot of hyperbole floating in the air?
   117. PreservedFish Posted: April 19, 2012 at 01:01 PM (#4110576)
Re 114 - a recent NYT article on Moyer mentioned that he keeps a copy of his original scouting report, from the early 80s, which had him at something like 82 mph.
   118. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 19, 2012 at 01:18 PM (#4110590)

An interesting thing about this Moyer at 49 stuff is how the records for age he is breaking are very old records. Quinn last played in 1933, Paige in 1965, Wilhelm in 1972. Seems odd with medical science improving that someone else hasn't cracked age 49 in the majors.

With salaries at today's levels, anyone who was good enough to still be pitching at 49 probably has enough money that they don't need to.
   119. Ron J Posted: April 20, 2012 at 12:46 AM (#4111073)
#114 I remember Ross Grimsley saying something close to, whenever the hitters start to time me I slow it down some more.

It's really hard to hit somebody who is so much slower than anybody else you'll face. It's just really hard to suppress everything you've learned about getting the bat started early enough to make solid contact with typical major league stuff.

From the 1987 Scouting Report: (stamped "NEEDS ANOTHER PITCH")

"[...] When things start to unravel, Moyer begins to lose confidence in his best pitches, which are off-speed pitches, and strays from his game plan. His fastball is not a major league pitch."

And in summary:

"Moyer is young and was a bit in awe of the majors last season. He is an enthusiastic rookie who, unlike many players, wants to learn and study more about his opponents. He spends time in the dugout taking notes and watching the master pitchers (presumably on the other team. As noted elsewhere in the report about him, he pitched for a terrible Cubs staff and led the starters in wins with 9 -- RNJ) of the league work their magic. He is very receptive to coaching, and to advice of veteran pitchers. Moyer could develop into a 10-to-15 game winner."
   120. Richard Posted: April 20, 2012 at 01:30 AM (#4111075)
Why can't I live in a world where there's a place on TV -- somewhere, anywhere -- for a show like the College Bowl?

You can. Move to the UK. University Challenge, based on College Bowl, is still running.
   121. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 20, 2012 at 02:09 AM (#4111079)
People who were still alive when Jamie Moyer was born include Rogers Hornsby, Robert Frost, Edith Piaf, Charles Laughton, Medgar Evers, Pope John XXIII, Eppa Rixey, Adolphe Menjou, Patsy Cline, Niels Bohr (for a couple of hours, maybe... was Jamie a morning baby or an evening baby?).
   122. bobm Posted: April 20, 2012 at 02:53 AM (#4111080)
[115]
Re #109: I would have no idea how to test this, but it seems like there used to be a lot more "bad" old seasons, and "bad" young (<23) seasons; could it be that teams are getting better at knowing when prospects are better for the major leagues, and knowing when veterans no longer have anything to offer? (I am thinking of Jermaine Dye, Derrick Lee, etc.; guys with superficially cromulent stats). Just a thought.


This issue seems to be very sensitive to when you pick your endpoints: live ball era, integration, free agency, etc.

I looked at qualifying seasons for players of age < 23 and age > 35 (from B-R PI). Below is the percent of qualifying seasons by decade where the OPS+ (for batters "B") or ERA+ (for pitchers "P") was < 100.

  
years      B-AGE<23 B-AGE>35 P-AGE<23 P-AGE>35 
1901-1909     53%      60%       30%        31%
    1910s     52       40        42         24
    1920s     46       42        50          2
    1930s     41       59        26         37
    1940s     59       39        40         32
    1950s     38       14        49         27
    1960s     34       31        33         43
    1970s     39       24        40         16
    1980s     33       31        24         36
    1990s     50       28        41         40
    2000s     44       33        33         27
   123. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 20, 2012 at 08:08 AM (#4111136)
Baseball Prospectus, 2001:

The end is near. Jamie Moyer’s ERA was 7.41 over the last two months of the season, when his arm angle dropped and he couldn’t get a good downward plane on his pitches. Though an injury was suspected, he never admitted to it. There is a school of thought that says pitchers who don’t throw hard can pitch forever, but if that were true, Randy Jones would have been on the mound when the Padres shed their mustard uniforms. Piniella is intensely loyal to his veterans, so Moyer will be given every opportunity to find his old form.
   124. stanmvp48 Posted: April 20, 2012 at 08:21 AM (#4111140)
I just noticed that he misses Milwaukee this weekend and pitches in Pittsburgh.
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