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Thursday, July 28, 2011

MSNBC Hardball Talk: Hideki Irabu found dead; suicide suspected

If indeed true, RIP.

This is just breaking and, at present, we only have links to stories in Japanese, but apparently former Yankees pitcher Hideki Irabu was found dead at his California home yesterday.  Suicide is suspected.

Irabu has had a troubled post-baseball career. He was arrested in Gardena, California last year for drunk driving.  Back in 2008 he was arrested for assaulting a bar manager in Japan after allegedly consuming 20 glasses of beer.

After achieving stardom in Japan, Irabu’s contract was purchased by the San Diego Padres in early 1997.  Irabu wanted no part of San Diego, however, and a trade to the Yankees was arranged.  Irabu earned World Series rings with the Yankees in both 1998 and 1999, but he fell far short of expectations and drew the ire of George Steinbrenner who famously dubbed him the “fat toad.”  The Yankees shipped him off to Montreal for Jake Westrbook following the 1999 season. He lasted two seasons with the Expos and one season with the Rangers before hanging it up after 2002.

AndrewJ Posted: July 28, 2011 at 07:36 PM | 71 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: obituaries, yankees

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   1. cardsfanboy Posted: July 28, 2011 at 08:01 PM (#3887837)
one season with the Rangers before hanging it up after 2002

from another thread....poor choice of words.
   2. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: July 28, 2011 at 08:26 PM (#3887871)
I'm never good at not sounding trite in threads like these. Having battled some tough times myself but never feeling suicidal, I can only imagine the type of psychological pain Irabu must have dealt with to take such actions.
   3. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 28, 2011 at 08:27 PM (#3887872)
1...Lurker.
   4. Craig Calcaterra Posted: July 28, 2011 at 08:29 PM (#3887876)
from another thread....poor choice of words.


Yeah, that's changed now. I wrote it before I knew the cause of death.
   5. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: July 28, 2011 at 08:37 PM (#3887883)
I'm going to get hell for this, because people already think I'm the devil incarnate, but my first thought was "did he lick poison toads? Were they *fat* toads?"

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. "Too soon." We're still in the solemn-internets-posts-for-feeling-sadness phase. But hey. You is who you is.
   6. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 28, 2011 at 08:49 PM (#3887893)
Darn shame.
   7. Steve Sparks Flying Everywhere Posted: July 28, 2011 at 08:49 PM (#3887894)
He croaked.
   8. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: July 28, 2011 at 08:52 PM (#3887896)
Sad news. I saw an interview with Irabu about playing Indy ball in California, throughout which he chainsmoked and said was mostly doing it to get out of the house. I always thought of that as a kind of jolly scene, but perhaps I misread it.
   9. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: July 28, 2011 at 08:58 PM (#3887900)
This is a shame. I'm with #2, with the added pleasure of laying awake one whole night when I was 19 contemplating suicide. At age 42, with presumed calmed down hormones, it must be excrutiating.
   10. Into the Void Posted: July 28, 2011 at 08:59 PM (#3887901)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. "Too soon." We're still in the solemn-internets-posts-for-feeling-sadness phase. But hey. You is who you is.


If you really feel the need to post a joke about someone's suicide, I'd suggest putting an effort in to actually make it funny.
   11. Tripon Posted: July 28, 2011 at 09:04 PM (#3887904)
I found it interesting that Irabu decided to stay in the U.S. after his MLB career ended. For a guy who was seen as a 'failure', he must have fell in love with America in some way to stay.
   12. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: July 28, 2011 at 09:07 PM (#3887906)
RIP ...

he doesn't seem remotely made for New York and Steinbrenner -- did his agent push him there?
   13. The Long Arm of Rudy Law Posted: July 28, 2011 at 09:15 PM (#3887911)
Seems strange that he fought so hard to not play for the Padres, but he ended up in Southern California.
   14. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: July 28, 2011 at 09:20 PM (#3887915)
I'm a little tired of the let's-make-fun-of-the-dead-person thing.

May you find peace now, Hideki.
   15. smileyy Posted: July 28, 2011 at 09:24 PM (#3887918)
[9] Wanting to kill yourself is a horrible enough feeling that, if it were to have recurred my whole life, I probably would have killed myself. My bouts with that ended around age 25. To face a whole life of that kind of dread makes you, well, not want to face the rest of your life.
   16. PreservedFish Posted: July 28, 2011 at 09:27 PM (#3887921)
I was just congratulating myself for finding Bad Sam's #5 really distasteful, when #7 snuck up on me and actually made me laugh out loud. Apologies.
   17. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 28, 2011 at 09:29 PM (#3887923)
I found it interesting that Irabu decided to stay in the U.S. after his MLB career ended. For a guy who was seen as a 'failure', he must have fell in love with America in some way to stay.

... or he didn't want to go back to Japan, where he was well known, with the "failure" label following him everywhere.

It's easy to forget since the coverage doesn't end up in U.S. media outlets, but Japanese players often have 20-30 media members following their every move in the U.S. Irabu's struggles in the U.S. were thoroughly covered, but they were undoubtedly magnified in Japan.
   18. DCA Posted: July 28, 2011 at 09:29 PM (#3887924)
I found it interesting that Irabu decided to stay in the U.S. after his MLB career ended. For a guy who was seen as a 'failure', he must have fell in love with America in some way to stay.

or because he was seen as a failure, he felt like he couldn't go home
   19. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: July 28, 2011 at 09:33 PM (#3887926)
Hideki's Two Finest Yankee Moments:

(1) His debut, obviously. Nothing topped that.
(2) His First 11 Starts of 1998: Pitching for the greatest team ever, Irabu went 6-2, 1.68. No one was better for the Yankees during that period.
   20. phineas Posted: July 28, 2011 at 09:33 PM (#3887927)
I find it interesting that we have to rely on Japanese news to find this out, although Irabu is half-American living in the US.
   21. SG Posted: July 28, 2011 at 09:43 PM (#3887933)
The list of AL Pitcher of the Month for 1999 is a kick.

April: Pedro Martinez
May: Pedro Martinez
June: Pedro Martinez
July: Hideki Irabu
August: Mariano Rivera
September: Pedro Martinez

If you view Irabu's MLB stint in its entirety, it looks like a disappointment, but he definitely had his moments.
   22. AndrewJ Posted: July 28, 2011 at 09:51 PM (#3887939)
April: Pedro Martinez
May: Pedro Martinez
June: Pedro Martinez
July: Hideki Irabu
August: Mariano Rivera
September: Pedro Martinez

If you view Irabu's MLB stint in its entirety, it looks like a disappointment, but he definitely had his moments.


Being mentioned in the same breath as Mariano and Pedro is nothing to be ashamed of.
   23. TerpNats Posted: July 28, 2011 at 09:59 PM (#3887943)
And remember, Irabu was named pitcher of the month the same month a teammate pitched a perfect game.
   24. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 28, 2011 at 10:13 PM (#3887951)
Hideki's Two Finest Yankee Moments:

(2) His First 11 Starts of 1998: Pitching for the greatest team ever, Irabu went 6-2, 1.68. No one was better for the Yankees during that period.


What's interesting about that streak is that in spite of his excellence, it took the Yankees a full month to put him in their regular 5-man rotation.
   25. AndrewJ Posted: July 28, 2011 at 10:15 PM (#3887952)
And remember, Irabu was named pitcher of the month the same month a teammate pitched a perfect game.

Amazingly, that happened twice -- Hideki won in May 1998, too.
   26. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 28, 2011 at 10:21 PM (#3887953)
sam hutcheson, the devil incarnate
   27. Dan Evensen Posted: July 28, 2011 at 10:30 PM (#3887957)
This is absolutely awful news. RIP.

And Sam Hutcheson's #5 deserves a ban.
   28. Babe Adams Posted: July 28, 2011 at 10:55 PM (#3887967)
"From here on in, I rag nobody."
-Henry Wiggen
   29. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: July 28, 2011 at 11:16 PM (#3887973)
Irabu grew up in the same town as my mother, Amagasaki, which is outside of Osaka. RIP.
   30. vortex of dissipation Posted: July 28, 2011 at 11:28 PM (#3887976)
Wanting to kill yourself is a horrible enough feeling that, if it were to have recurred my whole life, I probably would have killed myself. My bouts with that ended around age 25. To face a whole life of that kind of dread makes you, well, not want to face the rest of your life.


It is horrible. I've dealt with it virtually every day of my life. I'm still here, though, and intend to be for a long time...
   31. True Blue Posted: July 28, 2011 at 11:48 PM (#3887988)
His first start at Yankee Stadium was on a Thursday night, July 10, 1997 and they drew 51,901. His second start on July 15th drew 34,503. Yankee attendance was 2.5 million that year, good but fifth in the league, coming off a world championship. He ended up as a joke and I don't think he was an easy guy to get along with but there was a high anticipation about this guy after the winter long battle with San Diego having his rights and Irabu/his agent saying he would only play for the Yankees. And I think his good start in 1998 was aided by being used against lousy teams.
   32. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: July 29, 2011 at 12:05 AM (#3887996)
The problem with Sam's comment is that it isn't funny. If it was funny like #7 and not all "oh, i know i'm going to catch hell for this but <stupid joke>" it'd be fine.

edited for clarity.
   33. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: July 29, 2011 at 12:19 AM (#3888003)
32: yup.
   34. Robinson Cano Plate Like Home Posted: July 29, 2011 at 12:40 AM (#3888008)
I was at the Irabu debut game, and it was one of the most memorable games I've ever been to.

Very sad news. RIP Hideki.
   35. TerpNats Posted: July 29, 2011 at 12:41 AM (#3888009)
IIRC, his third start, in Milwaukee (yep, back in the good old days when the Brewers were in the American League), was when it all began to unravel for him.

As for me, no jokes about Irabu's death. Forgive me for feeling like Mary Richards in "Chuckles Bites The Dust" (arguably the greatest episode in sitcom history).
   36. Bob Evans Posted: July 29, 2011 at 01:01 AM (#3888020)
If you make a joke, first ask yourself, would you do it if he were your twin brother? Then act accordingly.
   37. Guapo Posted: July 29, 2011 at 01:28 AM (#3888030)
A Polack, a Jew, a Black, and my Twin Brother walk into a bar...

You're right, I can't go through with this.
   38. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: July 29, 2011 at 01:34 AM (#3888032)
My twin brother is an incredibly sexy, chiseled and handsome man... he can take it.
   39. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: July 29, 2011 at 01:40 AM (#3888034)
My twin brother is an incredibly sexy, chiseled and handsome man... he can take it.

Unidentical, I take it?
   40. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 29, 2011 at 02:00 AM (#3888041)
His first start at Yankee Stadium was on a Thursday night, July 10, 1997 and they drew 51,901. His second start on July 15th drew 34,503. Yankee attendance was 2.5 million that year, good but fifth in the league, coming off a world championship. He ended up as a joke and I don't think he was an easy guy to get along with but there was a high anticipation about this guy after the winter long battle with San Diego having his rights and Irabu/his agent saying he would only play for the Yankees.

Here's how SI described his debut, and take a look at the estimated extra revenue that he gave the Yankees. On that one night alone, he earned back 5.5% of his entire 4-year contract.

And, yes, the man has pull. He drew a near sellout crowd of 51,901 fans in what may have been the most anticipated debut by a Yankees rookie since Mickey Mantle came up in 1951. Excluding interleague games against the crosstown Mets, the Yankees had been drawing an average of 26,266 people on weeknights, meaning that after one start Irabu, 28, already had returned about $700,000 in revenue to Steinbrenner, who is paying him $12.8 million over four years.
   41. Bourbon Samurai Posted: July 29, 2011 at 02:01 AM (#3888042)
Holy #### this is real? How sad.
   42. Tim Wallach was my Hero Posted: July 29, 2011 at 02:11 AM (#3888043)
In order to get him, the Expos traded Jake Westbrook and Ted Lilly to the Yankees. Hideki pitched 71,1 awful innings over two seasons with the Expos. That was a BAD trade.
   43. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 29, 2011 at 02:23 AM (#3888044)
I forgot the Yankees had Jake Westbrook.
   44. Howie Menckel Posted: July 29, 2011 at 02:32 AM (#3888046)
"If you make a joke, first ask yourself, would you do it if he were your twin brother? Then act accordingly."

I HAVE a twin brother and honestly, any sibling will meet your test. No offense to my twin brother, but I'm not demoting my other siblings either.
   45. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: July 29, 2011 at 03:19 AM (#3888054)
My twin brother is an incredibly sexy, chiseled and handsome man... he can take it.

Unidentical, I take it?


Conjoined. I'm his wing man; I pick up his sloppy conjoined seconds.
   46. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: July 29, 2011 at 04:42 AM (#3888069)
I admit it was a particularly good line. I went with "off the top of my head." #7 is definitely better.

With that said, seriously? You guys apparently have no idea the amount of #### I give my brother. A good rule of thumb is, if you think a subject is too touchy to make a joke about (even a bad one,) you're probably taking that #### too seriously. Life is too short not to laugh at it.

All of it.
   47. LargeBill Posted: July 29, 2011 at 04:48 AM (#3888070)
36. Bob Evans Posted: July 28, 2011 at 09:01 PM (#3888020)
If you make a joke, first ask yourself, would you do it if he were your twin brother? Then act accordingly.
37. Guapo Posted: July 28, 2011 at 09:28 PM (#3888030)
A Polack, a Jew, a Black, and my Twin Brother walk into a bar...

You're right, I can't go through with this.


Fantastic. This has to rate an award for great back to back posts.

Separately, sorry to hear about his passing. Too young to go. We all go through stretches where we feel it ain't worth hanging around or know people who feel that way. Sometimes a kind word or an action of some sort that lets someone know there are people who care can be the difference that leads them to give tomorrow a chance and that's all some folks need - a reason to hang around and see what tomorrow brings. You'll never know (and don't really need to know) how many people whose lives you've impacted positively.
   48. Sleepy supports unauthorized rambling Posted: July 29, 2011 at 05:12 AM (#3888085)
Are there any studies about professional athletes, and suicide? I mean, we hear about guys like this, but what about minor leaguers, who wash out, and never make a splash? Seems like it would be really high, there, since you pretty much have to go "all in" to be paid to play a sport. And after doing that, what do you do?

You aren't going to work for Boeing/Lockheed/Microsoft, etc, unless you're the guy who checks ID's at the door. Or sweeps the floor. Or you go back to school, which has to be really hard after a life of baseball for x years.
   49. Morty Causa Posted: July 29, 2011 at 05:21 AM (#3888088)
To paraphrase Harry Dean Stanton in Repo Man: laugh, cry? Same ####.

Unless it's happening to you. People don't kill themselves for fun or because they're feeling wonderful. And they don't kill themselves for philosophical reasons. It's all psychological. They're feeling miserable, and the more it goes the more miserable they feel, and they can't imagine that misery ever ending except one way. Booze can be wonderful. It's also ultimately a depressant, and if you're drinking beaucoup, that's a lot of depressant your brain has to deal with. You become tolerant of the good effects, but the bad effects only worsen with time and usage.
   50. Everybody Loves Tyrus Raymond Posted: July 29, 2011 at 06:22 AM (#3888093)
#7 snuck up on me and actually made me laugh out loud.


As did I. We can keep each other company one day in hell, apparently.
   51. baudib Posted: July 29, 2011 at 06:48 AM (#3888094)
I appreciate #5 if only for the fact that it is the most informative and illuminating post Sam has ever made on this site.
   52. CFiJ Posted: July 29, 2011 at 07:31 AM (#3888097)
or because he was seen as a failure, he felt like he couldn't go home

Irabu was hardly seen as a failure; he put up 80 wins in the highest league in the world. Other international successes have done less. In fact, after leaving MLB Irabu went back to NPB, joined the Hanshin Tigers and put up 13 wins on a pennant winning team. His first half was so good he was selected to the All-Star series. He played two years before retiring from organized ball. After retiring, he opened an udon franchise in the States, and later tried playing ball again in an independent league.

Given his repeated troubles with alcohol, and some incidents before going to MLB, I'm going to hazard that Irabu never really felt comfortable anywhere.
   53. Greg K Posted: July 29, 2011 at 08:11 AM (#3888099)
Regarding Japan and "failure", I remember watching the 2004 ALCS with a Japanese guy and he kept going on about how Matsui was the great Japanese hope since that Ichiro guy had been a disappointment in MLB (I guess because he never won a World Series?). I've always assumed that guy was a loony, but maybe Japanese baseball fans have ridiculously high standards for their cross-over stars.
   54. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: July 29, 2011 at 12:02 PM (#3888122)
People don't kill themselves for fun or because they're feeling wonderful.


Actually, having a touch of bipolar disorder myself (though being me, of course, it's a given that my lows are a lot more profound & prolonged than my highs ever are), I've read a fair amount on the subject, & apparently bipolars who commit suicide are somewhat likely to do it while they're feeling exuberant ... because they know that sheer, black despair lies inevitably ahead, & they can't bear the thought of going through it yet again.
   55. tfbg9 Posted: July 29, 2011 at 12:58 PM (#3888134)
Steinbrenner treated Irabu very shabbily.
   56. Mirabelli Dictu (Chris McClinch) Posted: July 29, 2011 at 01:05 PM (#3888138)
I remember watching the 2004 ALCS with a Japanese guy and he kept going on about how Matsui was the great Japanese hope since that Ichiro guy had been a disappointment in MLB


DiPerna's a Japanese surname?
   57. CFiJ Posted: July 29, 2011 at 01:40 PM (#3888153)
Regarding Japan and "failure", I remember watching the 2004 ALCS with a Japanese guy and he kept going on about how Matsui was the great Japanese hope since that Ichiro guy had been a disappointment in MLB (I guess because he never won a World Series?). I've always assumed that guy was a loony, but maybe Japanese baseball fans have ridiculously high standards for their cross-over stars.
Seeing that 2004 was the year Ichiro broke Sisler's record, which was a huge deal over here, I'm guessing he was a Yomiuri Giants fan...
   58. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: July 29, 2011 at 02:34 PM (#3888189)
If you view Irabu's MLB stint in its entirety, it looks like a disappointment, but he definitely had his moments.


It was odd, he had good stuff- not quite the stuff you'd expect when you had heard that he was allegedly the Japanese Nolan Ryan - but he seemed to be both perpetually raw and laboring out there.

Plus his Yankee teammates made fun of him because he would tape magnets all over himself- something about increasing blood circulation or some such nonsense
   59. Flack42 Posted: July 29, 2011 at 02:39 PM (#3888192)
Summer of '98, Yankee Stadium, Irabu pitches to Dave Martinez of the Devil Rays, who fouls it in the upper deck along the third base line. I catch it, only one I've ever caught in 43 years of attending games.
So sad that he had to suffer so much, especially when there are avenues that offer hope.
   60. Banta Posted: July 29, 2011 at 02:44 PM (#3888201)
I missed this yesterday, but it's interesting to me. A couple days ago on SNY, Cohen and Hernandez got talking about Irabu and Cohen brought up the whole "fat toad" thing while giggling the whole time. Now I have very little tolerance for Cohen's antics so I dismissed my thought as part of my anti-Cohen bias, but I remember thinking "god, that's a little bit mean to even bring that up and laugh about it. It was a really cruel comment by Steinbrenner, not something cute to chuckle about... unless Irabu's got really thick skin."

Then I read that he's killed himself and I can't help but wonder how thick his skin really was.
   61. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: July 29, 2011 at 02:59 PM (#3888210)
You aren't going to work for Boeing/Lockheed/Microsoft, etc, unless you're the guy who checks ID's at the door. Or sweeps the floor. Or you go back to school, which has to be really hard after a life of baseball for x years.

Don't tell Brian Barton.

****

Sam Hutcheson, here's some further criticism of your post 5. Obviously (self evidently), feel free to ignore me / think I don't know what I'm talking about ... anyway, I'm not posting this in response to 'you' (who I feel like I get along with) or even so much your original line, but rather your defense of it.

With that said, seriously? You guys apparently have no idea the amount of #### I give my brother. A good rule of thumb is, if you think a subject is too touchy to make a joke about (even a bad one,) you're probably taking that #### too seriously. Life is too short not to laugh at it.


Sure, if the joke is funny. Your line (which didn't offend me, I knew what you were going for) came off as needlessly mean, kind of witless ... it even seemed like you were aware of this at the time (hence the immediate-within-the-post defensiveness) but wanted to be the first to get a salvo in.
If you're going to do a suicide joke in this setting, it should generally be about the victim* or the nature of the act - this seemed more about you.

* Setting aside my use of the word 'victim'... I'll further elaborate that, given that Irabu is generally not a hated guy, the joke should lean toward empathy rather than criticism (like the 'he croaked' did, imo).

[/comedypolice, out of his jurisdiction]
   62. SG Posted: July 29, 2011 at 03:04 PM (#3888212)
It was odd, he had good stuff- not quite the stuff you'd expect when you had heard that he was allegedly the Japanese Nolan Ryan - but he seemed to be both perpetually raw and laboring out there.


I was at this game in 1998, which eventually got rained out, and he was absolutely top-shelf that day. They clocked him as high as 97 and his pitches had wicked movement. Detroit really couldn't touch him.

For whatever reason he wasn't able to display similar stuff regularly. He was fun to watch when he was on his game.
   63. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 29, 2011 at 03:08 PM (#3888215)
With that said, seriously? You guys apparently have no idea the amount of #### I give my brother. A good rule of thumb is, if you think a subject is too touchy to make a joke about (even a bad one,) you're probably taking that #### too seriously. Life is too short not to laugh at it.

Somehow I think your immediate response wasn't that particular line, it was "Ooh, I need to think up a joke about this so I can maintain my image as the edgy guy." Because that joke was pretty forced.
   64. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: July 29, 2011 at 03:46 PM (#3888239)
You guys apparently have no idea the amount of #### I give my brother.

This comes as no surprise.
   65. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: July 29, 2011 at 04:04 PM (#3888252)
Are there any studies about professional athletes, and suicide? I mean, we hear about guys like this, but what about minor leaguers, who wash out, and never make a splash? Seems like it would be really high, there, since you pretty much have to go "all in" to be paid to play a sport. And after doing that, what do you do?

Bruce Gardner
   66. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 29, 2011 at 05:17 PM (#3888328)
Some nice words about Irabu from his former teammate Eric Hillman: Link.
   67. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 29, 2011 at 05:20 PM (#3888331)
(You can see the comment by Hillman on the Yahoo page by picking the "Highest Rated" option for comments - that'll bring it to the top.)
   68. Joey B. "disrespects the A" Posted: July 29, 2011 at 06:01 PM (#3888382)
The next time Hutcheson is funny will be the first.
   69. bond1 Posted: July 29, 2011 at 06:34 PM (#3888430)
Irabu was 42 years old. 42 also means death in Japanese. You won't see any Japanese wearing #42 jerseys, and you won't see any 42nd floor in tall buildings, and that has nothing to do with Jackie Robinson.
The 42nd year is "yaku doshi" in a man's life. The Japanese believe that a man's 42nd year is cursed. Many westerners think the nuber 13 is bad luck; for the Japanese, the number 42 is a 100 times worse.
   70. Sleepy supports unauthorized rambling Posted: July 30, 2011 at 08:51 AM (#3888913)
Don't tell Brian Barton.


#61- yeah, guys who didn't finish undergrad get great jobs in the aerospace industry. He's a perfect example of what I'm talking about- released from the Cardinals, played a year in independent leagues, now in AAA for the reds, with a ~.450 OPS. What will he do next? I guess go back to school and teach, but it is VERY tough to break into the industry at age 30+. Especially with the current political climate- no one is hiring.
   71. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: July 30, 2011 at 03:56 PM (#3888990)
The next time Hutcheson is funny will be the first.

I'm pretty sure Sam H is working in arrears on this count.

That said, Joey is possibly the last person who should point this out. People in glass houses shouldn't fire trebuchets...

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