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Tuesday, July 16, 2013

Muniland: The Yankees parking lots that went bankrupt, skipped city payments and took city land

Will Yankee Stadium security guards see George Steinbrenner’s ghost soon?

. . . I tweeted that the Yankee Stadium parking garage bonds were likely one of the most corrupt muniland deals ever.

I might have said this because the bonds had defaulted. Or because the $238 million of bonds were unrated. Or it might have had something to do with the issuer of the bonds, the Bronx Parking Development, being a couple working out of their home in Hudson, New York, who had defaulted on two previous municipal bond deals structured in the very same way. Or maybe I said this because, in the event of a default, the deal allowed the bondholders to take control of extremely valuable public land and convert it to use for private gain. This fourth explanation actually prompted my opinion of the deal.

The Fallen Reputation of Billy Jo Robidoux Posted: July 16, 2013 at 08:19 AM | 66 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: business, denmark, yankees

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   1. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 16, 2013 at 10:01 AM (#4495560)
Just disgusting. Who ever thought Lonn Trost and Randy Levine could make George Steinbrenner looks good?
   2. valuearbitrageur Posted: July 16, 2013 at 10:58 AM (#4495616)
Pretty sick that a guy like Mike Stanton doesn't see corruption here. Doesn't that tell you how corrupt muni deals are getting in general that this disgusting POS doesn't even register on his radar?

Maybe it's time for Mike Stanton to retire.
   3. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 16, 2013 at 11:01 AM (#4495625)
It's "Giancarlo Stanton" now.
   4. SoSH U at work Posted: July 16, 2013 at 11:03 AM (#4495630)
Maybe it's time for Mike Stanton to retire.


Or just start going by Giancarlo.

Edit: Dammit.
   5. Chris Needham Posted: July 16, 2013 at 11:14 AM (#4495642)
Please. He prefers to be called Giancarlo now.
   6. Chris Needham Posted: July 16, 2013 at 11:14 AM (#4495644)
Dammit. When the comedy is THIS good, it's worth typing thrice.
   7. Chris Needham Posted: July 16, 2013 at 11:15 AM (#4495645)
And how come nobody went with the "he retired in 2005" joke? Kids today.
   8. Rants Mulliniks Posted: July 16, 2013 at 11:21 AM (#4495651)
Corruption is par for the course in western governments of all levels today, and we should only be surprised when there is none.
   9. valuearbitrageur Posted: July 16, 2013 at 11:36 AM (#4495676)
Picking on old people isn't nice, esp. since it's so hard for us to actually figure out the interwebz.

May your site be infested with opinionated know-nothing millenials!
   10. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: July 16, 2013 at 11:54 AM (#4495702)
Corruption is par for the course in western governments of all levels today, and we should only be surprised when there is none.


Thats why you should buy Rants Mullinik's Aluminum Protective Headware (TM), for the low-low price of $49.99. Rants has crafted thin layers of alumninum into a form-fitting hat that will protect you from the transmissions of evil "Governments" and the Jews.
   11. valuearbitrageur Posted: July 16, 2013 at 12:16 PM (#4495733)
Thats why you should buy Rants Mullinik's Aluminum Protective Headware (TM), for the low-low price of $49.99. Rants has crafted thin layers of alumninum into a form-fitting hat that will protect you from the transmissions of evil "Governments" and the Jews.


Really? You think the idea that corruption is endemic in todays government institutions?

Right now in the US close to 30% of all GDP is directly controlled and spent by the state/local/federal government. Through law and regulation they control or direct a significant amount of the remaining 70%. You don't see the massive incentives to bribe, er, lobby career politicians and bureaucrats to award/divert even a tiny fraction of those amounts, since a tiny fraction amounts to more money than you or I could spend in a lifetime?

Every person who mentally associates themselves with a political party believes that it's only the "other guys" who lie, cheat and steal, and they are always only half right.
   12. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 16, 2013 at 12:21 PM (#4495741)
Every person who mentally associates themselves with a political party believes that it's only the "other guys" who lie, cheat and steal, and they are always only half right.

Oh, hell no. The large majority of politicians, of every party, are guilty of some sort of corruption. I associate with the party that is the lesser of the two evils.
   13. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: July 16, 2013 at 12:43 PM (#4495780)
I associate with the party that is the lesser of the two evils.


???
really, I had you pegged as a Republican...
   14. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: July 16, 2013 at 12:43 PM (#4495782)
Really? You think the idea that corruption is endemic in todays government institutions?

Right now in the US close to 30% of all GDP is directly controlled and spent by the state/local/federal government. Through law and regulation they control or direct a significant amount of the remaining 70%. You don't see the massive incentives to bribe, er, lobby career politicians and bureaucrats to award/divert even a tiny fraction of those amounts, since a tiny fraction amounts to more money than you or I could spend in a lifetime?


I think there is plenty of corruption in government, particularly in state and local. I don't think its "par for the course", and I think any fool that believes that (and Rants is a conspiracy-theory-peddling fool) should spend some time in a truly corrupt place to get a flavor for what that's like.
   15. valuearbitrageur Posted: July 16, 2013 at 12:52 PM (#4495792)
Oh, hell no. The large majority of politicians, of every party, are guilty of some sort of corruption. I associate with the party that is the lesser of the two evils.


I used to associate myself with the party that is for limited government until they got control of the wheels of power and became directly responsible for most of that massive increase in government spending.
   16. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: July 16, 2013 at 01:05 PM (#4495813)
I think any fool that believes that (and Rants is a conspiracy-theory-peddling fool) should spend some time in a truly corrupt place to get a flavor for what that's like.


How close is he to Texas? Louisiana? (Insert choice of other 48 states or District of Columbia here)?
   17. Misirlou has S.C.M.O.D.S Posted: July 16, 2013 at 01:12 PM (#4495821)
Every person who mentally associates themselves with a political party believes that it's only the "other guys" who lie, cheat and steal, and they are always only half right.

Oh, hell no. The large majority of politicians, of every party, are guilty of some sort of corruption. I associate with the party that is the lesser of the two evils.


Unintentionally hilarious.
   18. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 16, 2013 at 01:19 PM (#4495834)
Unintentionally hilarious.

Explain please. I could use a laugh today.
   19. The Yankee Clapper Posted: July 16, 2013 at 01:22 PM (#4495838)
Seems like a shaky deal from the start, but the Yankees never owned the parking garages, didn't issue the bonds, don't own the bonds, and have no stake in the payments or lack thereof between the bonds holders, bond issuers and city government. There's no mention of it, so I'm not sure the Yankees get any of parking garage money. Seems like NYC and/or Bronx Borough governments didn't make a good deal. Maybe they should have contracted with Frank McCourt, a/k/a Frankie Parking Lots, a man who apparently leveraged a few parking parcels into an empire.
   20. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: July 16, 2013 at 01:24 PM (#4495841)
Corruption is par for the course in western governments of all levels today, and we should only be surprised when there is none.

I think there's a fair amount of corruption and legal quid pro quo that goes on, but I disagree strongly with the idea that it's unique to western governments or to today.
   21. Traderdave Posted: July 16, 2013 at 01:28 PM (#4495845)
I think there is plenty of corruption in government, particularly in state and local. I don't think its "par for the course", and I think any fool that believes that (and Rants is a conspiracy-theory-peddling fool) should spend some time in a truly corrupt place to get a flavor for what that's like.


If by "truly corrupt" you mean envelopes of cash, third world traffic stops, etc, I'd agree that it's not par for the course. Compared to other nations, it's pretty hard to bribe Americans in that blunt, Huey Long style.

But in America, our corruption is legal, open, and massive: campaign contributions. If the definition is expanded to include that, and I believe it should be, then corruption is deeply endemic in America. Not par for the course but rather a double eagle or hole in one.
   22. RMc is a fine piece of cheese Posted: July 16, 2013 at 01:36 PM (#4495855)
The more government, the more government corruption (re: Nazi Germany, USSR, North Korea).
   23. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 16, 2013 at 01:44 PM (#4495866)
The greatest scandal in our culture currently is the acceptance and widespread practice of male genital mutilation.
   24. Traderdave Posted: July 16, 2013 at 01:48 PM (#4495868)
The greatest scandal in our culture currently is the acceptance and widespread practice of male genital mutilation.


Damn that quote makes me miss John Brattain....
   25. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 16, 2013 at 01:51 PM (#4495870)
hah. Was Brattain an Intactivist?
   26. McCoy Posted: July 16, 2013 at 01:53 PM (#4495872)
The more government, the more government corruption (re: Nazi Germany, USSR, North Korea).

Government based on a person (King, Emperor, Chief, so forth) generally are incredibly corrupt. Basically once you move past societies that contain 3 mud huts it gets corrupt in a hurry.
   27. PreservedFish Posted: July 16, 2013 at 02:16 PM (#4495889)
The US government is a bastion of honor compared to most of the world.
   28. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 16, 2013 at 02:20 PM (#4495893)
Indeed, the most corrupt part of the world appears to be Africa.
   29. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 16, 2013 at 02:22 PM (#4495895)
The US government is a bastion of honor compared to most of the world.

Of course. But, it may be getting worse, and it's getting involved in an ever increasing share of the economy.
   30. Bob Tufts Posted: July 16, 2013 at 02:48 PM (#4495911)
The greatest scandal in our culture currently is the acceptance and widespread practice of male genital mutilation.


So going back to past threads, if Dick Allen had a circumcision, he'd be less of a prick?
   31. GregD Posted: July 16, 2013 at 02:49 PM (#4495914)
We ain't got nothin' on the 1860s and 1870s! Senators openly on the payroll of the railroad companies they were handing millions of acres of land to. Jay Cooke extending massive loans to the Treasury Secretary while getting the contract to sell hundreds of millions of dollars in US bonds.

The current system is a mess, but it's so much better than it once was.
   32. vortex of dissipation Posted: July 16, 2013 at 03:04 PM (#4495930)
I think there is plenty of corruption in government, particularly in state and local. I don't think its "par for the course", and I think any fool that believes that (and Rants is a conspiracy-theory-peddling fool) should spend some time in a truly corrupt place to get a flavor for what that's like.


I've worked most of my life in local government, and I've never personally seen anything that could be interpreted as corruption. Maybe there is such activity higher up the food chain, but not for us peons...
   33. The Fallen Reputation of Billy Jo Robidoux Posted: July 16, 2013 at 03:05 PM (#4495934)
Seems like a shaky deal from the start, but the Yankees never owned the parking garages, didn't issue the bonds, don't own the bonds, and have no stake in the payments or lack thereof between the bonds holders, bond issuers and city government. There's no mention of it, so I'm not sure the Yankees get any of parking garage money.


The Yankees' proximity may actually be good, as it brings more attention to a shady deal, whereas a similar one for XYZ Corp. down the street would not.
   34. McCoy Posted: July 16, 2013 at 03:08 PM (#4495940)
Maybe there is such activity higher up the food chain, but not for us peons...

Almost did a spit-take on this. Local government is rife with personal fiefdoms and abuse of power to settle personal grudges.
   35. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 16, 2013 at 03:11 PM (#4495946)
I've worked most of my life in local government, and I've never personally seen anything that could be interpreted as corruption. Maybe there is such activity higher up the food chain, but not for us peons...

Maybe a low or mid-level office worker won't see any graft. But kick-backs on contracts are fairly common. When I was in HS our school district (a very wealthy suburban district) lost $1.6M b/c the Asst. Superintendent placed the money with a manager not on the approved list. He was never convicted, but it was clear he was in bed with the manager. Why else would one deviate from the approved list to patronize a no-name fund?
   36. The Yankee Clapper Posted: July 16, 2013 at 03:12 PM (#4495947)
I've worked most of my life in local government, and I've never personally seen anything that could be interpreted as corruption. Maybe there is such activity higher up the food chain, but not for us peons...

Just guessing - not from Chicago? Or New Jersey? Louisiana? The District of Columbia?
   37. The Fallen Reputation of Billy Jo Robidoux Posted: July 16, 2013 at 03:13 PM (#4495950)
I've worked most of my life in local government, and I've never personally seen anything that could be interpreted as corruption.


I think it depends on where you are. Local government here in Madison - no signs of it. City of Milwaukee has had its share of problems, most recently former Alderman Michael McGee, Jr. who had two drivers' licenses and a habit of extorting business owners for supporting liquor license applications. His wikipedia page is surprisingly thorough, and pretty entertaining. He also signed his own recall petition, and then claimed the organizers lied to him about what it was. If you were going to make a television series about Milwaukee like The Wire, he would certainly be a character.
   38. McCoy Posted: July 16, 2013 at 03:16 PM (#4495956)
Local government here in Madison - no signs of it

Odd that a state capitol would be free of corruption.
   39. vortex of dissipation Posted: July 16, 2013 at 03:17 PM (#4495957)
Just guessing - not from Chicago? Or New Jersey? Louisiana? The District of Columbia?


Washington state.
   40. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 16, 2013 at 03:20 PM (#4495963)
Just guessing - not from Chicago? Or New Jersey? Louisiana? The District of Columbia?

Don't leave out New York. About half our City Council has been caught establishing fake charities to embezzle City grants. Not to mention the guys who tried to literally sell (for cash) the Republican nomination for mayor to a Democratic colleague.
   41. GregD Posted: July 16, 2013 at 03:26 PM (#4495971)
Or Albany, where two sitting representatives were wearing wires for federal prosecutors!
   42. The Fallen Reputation of Billy Jo Robidoux Posted: July 16, 2013 at 03:26 PM (#4495973)
Odd that a state capitol would be free of corruption.


State government is a different beast. (Also, I said "signs" of corruption - I don't know what goes on underneath locally.) Here's a brief profile of a former state senator with a colorful history. Wisconsin legislators tend to be urban do-gooders, Tea Party folks, or pro-business Republicans, none of which seem the sort to do something illegal. They make their money the old fashioned way - contributions from lobbyists and constituents.

Of course, the state has set aside a pile of money for business subsidies with an intentionally opaque process and a special agency. In the wrong hands, that could clearly be used as a slush fund.
   43. McCoy Posted: July 16, 2013 at 03:39 PM (#4495997)
pro-business Republicans, none of which seem the sort to do something illegal.

Does another spit take.
   44. The Fallen Reputation of Billy Jo Robidoux Posted: July 16, 2013 at 03:54 PM (#4496029)
pro-business Republicans, none of which seem the sort to do something illegal.

Does another spit take.


Let me narrow "something illegal" down to "be actively corrupt." They have done things like make laws that are probably unconstitutional, pass pandering social legislation and any number of cringe-worthy things. There hasn't been any indication that they are on the take.
   45. Rants Mulliniks Posted: July 16, 2013 at 04:03 PM (#4496041)
I've worked the last 11 years in a low-level position in the provincial gov't, and corruption is par for the course. That's the reason I'm still at a low-level, because I wasn't prepared to make the ethical sacrifices required to move up the ladder.

When the you can grow up to be a "lobbyist" and never be out of work, you live in a corrupt society. When you live in one of the most resource-rich countries on earth and 20% of your children live in poverty, you live in a corrupt society.

Rants has crafted thin layers of alumninum into a form-fitting hat that will protect you from the transmissions of evil "Governments" and the Jews.


Zop, you can call me crazy and a fool all you want, I honestly don't care as you narrow minded opinion means absolutely nothing to me, but I would appreciate it if you didn't insinuate that I'm anti-Semitic. That's pretty low, even for you.
   46. PreservedFish Posted: July 16, 2013 at 04:07 PM (#4496044)
When you live in one of the most resource-rich countries on earth and 20% of your children live in poverty, you live in a corrupt society.


It seems like you're using "corrupt" as a synonym for "bad."
   47. SoSH U at work Posted: July 16, 2013 at 04:08 PM (#4496046)
That's pretty low, even for you.


I think you're selling him short.
   48. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 16, 2013 at 04:09 PM (#4496049)
When you live in one of the most resource-rich countries on earth and 20% of your children live in poverty, you live in a corrupt society.

That has more to do with the behaviors of their parents than the corruption of Gov't. Though mant corrupt politicians benefit from having a dependent underclass.
   49. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 16, 2013 at 04:12 PM (#4496052)
And let's not forget all the circumcision.
   50. Rants Mulliniks Posted: July 16, 2013 at 04:15 PM (#4496059)
It seems like you're using "corrupt" as a synonym for "bad."


When you live in a supposed democracy (and I know the US is a republic, let's not get hung up on semantics) corruption is required to divert all of the wealth the country produces to the very few. The average net worth of a Congress member is almost $7 million, and a Senator almost $12 million. If that's not direct evidence of corruption I don't know what is. Obviously you would expect their net worth to be higher than that of the general population, but when multimillionaires are in control of who gets what, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that the economic gap between the rich and the poor is accelerating.
   51. Answer Guy Posted: July 16, 2013 at 04:37 PM (#4496094)
The average net worth of a Congress member is almost $7 million, and a Senator almost $12 million. If that's not direct evidence of corruption I don't know what is.


In most cases they are already rich when they get there.
   52. Traderdave Posted: July 16, 2013 at 04:41 PM (#4496098)
Corruption isn't just brown envelopes of cash. It can be things like:

Getting a civil servant job based on a personal connection
Getting a civil service promotion by working after hours for your boss's re-election. Or getting canned because you didn't.
Awarding contracts to campaign contributors, or their friends (done that way intentionally to avoid the appearance of corruption)
Accepting contributions from public employee unions and voting huge pensions for those unions
Accepting contributions funneled through "consultants" which is extremely common
Accepting dinner of golf rounds or hookers or ballgame tickets from people with an interest in public funds

   53. Bob Tufts Posted: July 16, 2013 at 04:57 PM (#4496117)
Make Sarbanes-Oxley apply to government agencies, offices and political campaigns.

   54. Flynn Posted: July 16, 2013 at 05:06 PM (#4496126)
I think Rants is a Quebecer, in which case his pessimism about corrupt government is entirely understandable.
   55. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: July 16, 2013 at 05:08 PM (#4496129)
Zop, you can call me crazy and a fool all you want, I honestly don't care as you narrow minded opinion means absolutely nothing to me, but I would appreciate it if you didn't insinuate that I'm anti-Semitic. That's pretty low, even for you.


I find many of your conspiracy theories have many of the zesty features of classic anti-semitic conspiracy thinking. You're the finest of lines away from blaming the interest rate cabal. So why not call it what is, shall we?
   56. G.W.O. Posted: July 16, 2013 at 05:16 PM (#4496138)
I preferred this thread when it was mainly Giancarlo Stanton jokes
   57. bfan Posted: July 16, 2013 at 05:52 PM (#4496163)
it was clear he was in bed with the manager


Lke Jon Corzine in bed with the manager, or merely "in bed with the manager"?
   58. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 16, 2013 at 07:18 PM (#4496236)

Lke Jon Corzine in bed with the manager, or merely "in bed with the manager"?


Purely financial. I hope.
   59. Bob Tufts Posted: July 16, 2013 at 08:36 PM (#4496347)
Like Jon Corzine in bed with the manager, or merely "in bed with the manager"?

Purely financial. I hope.


I do not know who he was in bed with, but the investors surely got farcked.
   60. Greg K Posted: July 16, 2013 at 09:15 PM (#4496440)
I think Rants is a Quebecer, in which case his pessimism about corrupt government is entirely understandable.

I always thought New Brunswick, but who can say?
   61. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: July 17, 2013 at 01:42 AM (#4496879)
it was clear he was in bed with the manager

Like Jon Corzine in bed with the manager, or merely "in bed with the manager"?

Purely financial. I hope.


He only dipped his beak in enough to get wet.
   62. Gaelan Posted: July 17, 2013 at 08:20 AM (#4496933)
The funny thing is that, Quebec aside, we live in the least corrupt times in history.
   63. Bitter Mouse Posted: July 17, 2013 at 08:36 AM (#4496945)
The funny thing is that, Quebec aside, we live in the least corrupt times in history.


We live in the wealthiest time in history. Likely it is the least violent time in history. People are healthier and live longer than they ever have and are better educated. The present is bright and the future brighter still.

None of that matters to many though, DOOM! DOOM I say. The world is falling apart and things were much better in my youth, numbers be damned.
   64. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 17, 2013 at 08:43 AM (#4496948)
Boxing was better in my youth. Everything else, probably not so much.
   65. Bitter Mouse Posted: July 17, 2013 at 08:54 AM (#4496958)
Boxing was better in my youth. Everything else, probably not so much.


There is a sport that just died. Even Horse Racing and Tennis have surpased it (to say nothing of NASCAR and various other fighting sports). I think the lack of any real organizational body has done it in, but that is a total guess on my part.
   66. zonk Posted: July 17, 2013 at 08:56 AM (#4496961)
The funny thing is that, Quebec aside, we live in the least corrupt times in history.


This. Many times over, this.

I'm not defending corruption - nor am I saying it doesn't exist - but relative to even modern history?

Even in places where it's still a problem - saying this as a Chicago resident - it's nowhere near the same scale it once was.

Heck, the most recent local corruption scandal is basically about the IL House Speaker lobbying the Regional Transportation Board head to give a raise to a staffer that had also worked on Madigan's (the IL House Speaker) campaign. The raise was denied and the staffer quit. In addition, the now-former head had also denied a couple of hiring requests from other politicos. The RTA head resigned/was forced out - and given a 6 figure severance that looks like hush money.

Now... none of that is good... but even just 30 years ago? The staffer who got denied a raise wouldn't have actually BEEN working - he'd have been a ghost payroller and the other two hiring requests wouldn't have actually BEEN hiring requests, they probably would have just been given big stipends out of a shadowy slush fund.

You can even take Blago and George Ryan -- I'm not defending any of their actions, either -- but you don't have to go back too far in IL gubernatorial history to find far worse than the crimes they committed (or in Blago's case, attempted to commit).

By all means, investigate, prosecute, report... but let's not pretend the problem is worse than ever/out of control.

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