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Thursday, December 26, 2013

Murray Chass on Baseball: DON’T REWARD MANAGERS OF PED CHEATS

Hey, can someone dig up some dirty pus on Frank Thomas…so Murray can complete his ballot. Thanks.

The Hall of Fame ballot sits on my desk, just to the left of my computer. Of the 36 names on it, three have the boxes next to their names marked with an X: Jack Morris, of course; Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine. A fourth box, the one next to Frank Thomas, may also get an X upon further review.

The boxes next to these 10 names will not get an X: Jeff Bagwell, Craig Biggio, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Eric Gagne, Paul Lo Duca, Mark McGwire, Rafael Palmeiro, Mike Piazza, Sammy Sosa.

These non-exes won’t get my vote because they were proved to have cheated, admitted they cheated or are strongly suspected of having cheated. I have not voted for any player in those categories and am not prepared to start doing so now.

Fans of these players and even non-fan observers will ask how I can consider someone a cheat if he has never tested positive. I have two answers:

  1 - Some of them might have used steroids before baseball began testing for performance-enhancing substances and stopped before the tests could catch them.
  2 - If I’m wrong on any particular player, so be it, but I’d rather err on the side of caution. I wouldn’t want to learn two or three years after the fact that I had helped elect a cheater. Anyway my one vote won’t keep anyone out of the Hall.

This is an admittedly difficult task the baseball writers have, and each writer has to decide his own way of dealing with the issue of steroids. Question us if you’d like, but it won’t make you right and us wrong.

Repoz Posted: December 26, 2013 at 10:58 AM | 60 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: hof

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   1. Best Regards, President of Comfort Posted: December 26, 2013 at 11:11 AM (#4624098)
DON'T REWARD TEAMMATES OF PED CHEATS, EITHER.
   2. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: December 26, 2013 at 11:18 AM (#4624102)
The reason for not giving Paul LoDuca a Hall of Fame vote is that he is used PEDs? THAT'S the problem with his candidacy?
   3. toratoratora Posted: December 26, 2013 at 11:19 AM (#4624103)
Whoa,whoa,how did Biggio on get on that list?
Other than being an Astro, is he really "proved to have cheated, admitted they cheated or are strongly suspected of having cheated?"
Or is Murray just being Murray and making dirt up?
   4. SouthSideRyan Posted: December 26, 2013 at 11:29 AM (#4624110)
   5. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: December 26, 2013 at 11:33 AM (#4624111)
Whoa,whoa,how did Biggio on get on that list?


He was a teammate of Bagwell.
   6. TRBMB Posted: December 26, 2013 at 11:34 AM (#4624112)
Murray is an excellent example of why the BBWAA, by itself, needs to be removed as the primary determination on who gets in and who doesn't. Murray has a vote, John Thorn, Bill James, Pete Palmer, Sean Forman, many others equally capable, don't. I suspect the Jan 8 results may result in a new look at the process, although the Clark Foundation doesn't really care as long as somebody alive is there in July.
   7. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 26, 2013 at 11:40 AM (#4624115)
1 - Some of them might have used steroids before baseball began testing for performance-enhancing substances and stopped before the tests could catch them.
2 - If I’m wrong on any particular player, so be it, but I’d rather err on the side of caution. I wouldn’t want to learn two or three years after the fact that I had helped elect a cheater. Anyway my one vote won’t keep anyone out of the Hall.



How come this doesn't apply to Maddux or Glavine. Or Morris for that matter?
   8. KT's Pot Arb Posted: December 26, 2013 at 11:40 AM (#4624116)
Don't reward the bloggers who helped glorify the cheaters by linking to their insipid drivel.

When he looks at Frank Thomas and Craig Biggio, it's Biggio he suspects of steroid use because clearly because he hasn't running around condemning PEDs vocally enough.

The Hall of Fame ballot sits on my desk, just to the left of my computer.


Liar, I don't believe he actually owns a computer. I believe his blogs are carrier pigeoned to a far away hosting provider, where they transcribed by iPad wearing guide dogs.

   9. JJ1986 Posted: December 26, 2013 at 11:42 AM (#4624118)
I thought that Murray said last year that he wouldn't vote for anyone but Morris.
   10. Bitter Mouse Posted: December 26, 2013 at 11:45 AM (#4624120)
Terrible ballot. In other news, water wet, Minnesota cold in the winter, and my dog loves me.
   11. BDC Posted: December 26, 2013 at 11:48 AM (#4624124)
Biggio is easily the dirtiest player on the ballot.
   12. JJ1986 Posted: December 26, 2013 at 11:48 AM (#4624125)
Answering myself, 2012:

I placed an X next to Jack Morris on my Hall of Fame ballot, and I was finished voting. If Morris is elected, I will most likely be finished voting period. If Morris is not elected this time, I will vote for him next year in his final year of eligibility and then be done
   13. Mickey Henry Mays Posted: December 26, 2013 at 11:53 AM (#4624129)
The reason for not giving Paul LoDuca a Hall of Fame vote is that he is used PEDs? THAT'S the problem with his candidacy?


Well anybody who has Jack Morris in his HOF while omitting Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens can probably find room for Paul LoDuca without losing much more credibility.
   14. PreservedFish Posted: December 26, 2013 at 11:54 AM (#4624130)
I love imagining Chass at Christmas with his family. Steering every conversation to the sabermetric war on baseball. His adult children rolling their eyes and whispering to each other "don't start let him get started."
   15. Bitter Mouse Posted: December 26, 2013 at 11:59 AM (#4624135)
If Morris is elected, I will most likely be finished voting period.


Promise or threat?

Seriously though that is just sad. There are well over 10 worthy players and more coming in future years. Great players deserving baseball's highest honor and he is so wrapped up in Steroids and Jack Morris that none of it matters.
   16. LargeBill Posted: December 26, 2013 at 12:02 PM (#4624137)
Pathetic. If the writers ever get removed from the award & HOF voting process Chass & his ilk will be primary reason. I actually wasted a couple minutes to write Chass. After chastising him for voting based on rumor and innuendo, I included this comment to drive home the point:

"There is as much evidence that the people you voted for used PED's as there is that some you omitted used. As far as I know Morris started using to recover between starts the last couple years of his career. Heck, I’ll go even further and let you in on a secret. Don’t tell anyone, but the cousin of a friend of a Blue Jay’s clubhouse attendant told me Morris had significant back acne. See how your brand of journalism works?"
   17. Heinie Mantush (Krusty) Posted: December 26, 2013 at 12:15 PM (#4624142)
So, let's accept some of Chass' rationale at face value. Anabolic steroid users (whether suspected or confirmed) don't belong in the HOF as per the requirements of character, integrity, and sportsmanship. Narcotics users are to be treated differently (ex. Paul Molitor.)

There is *still* a backlog. Why not vote for Mike Mussina (270 wins, a strong ERA adjusted for his era)? Why not vote for Curt Schilling? Neither has a whiff of PED stink to them. Moreover, if Morris fits your bill for a Hall of Famer, then how could Schilling not? While not quite the same workhorse, he was a better pitcher when he was on the mound, which was quite often. Moreover, his postseason heroics in 2001 and 2004 stand along any other in the Wild Card or Division eras. Why not Tim Raines, who would have been the greatest leadoff man of any era besides his own? How about Fred McGriff, who would have surely reached 500 had he not been facing juiced pitchers and had homers robbed by juiced outfielders (we can find 7 homers, can't we?)

My issue isn't so much with discounting AAS users on character grounds as it is with keeping a very small ballot. There's just no real point in keeping some of these guys out, if you accept PED usage as pervasive and artificially constraining the performance of clean players.
   18. John DiFool2 Posted: December 26, 2013 at 12:19 PM (#4624145)
I'd love for someone to go and try to dig up an old column of Chass' where he praises McGwire or Sosa or even Clemens.
   19. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: December 26, 2013 at 12:31 PM (#4624150)
Why not vote for Mike Mussina (270 wins, a strong ERA adjusted for his era)?


Teammate of A-Rod, managed by Torre. Suspect.

Why not vote for Curt Schilling?


Member of the Red Sox of the 2000s. Everyone knows that whole team was on the juice.

Why not Tim Raines, who would have been the greatest leadoff man of any era besides his own?


Give me a break. He hit .294, which is pretty good but not a Hall of Famer by a longshot unless you hit a lot of home runs. Raines barely hit any home runs, didn't drive in runs... he was a good player, but while he was playing nobody ever looked at Tim Raines and said "there's a Hall of Famer, I can't wait to take my boy to the park to watch Tim Raines play."

How about Fred McGriff, who would have surely reached 500 had he not been facing juiced pitchers and had homers robbed by juiced outfielders


He played well into the 1990s and played unusually well at advanced ages. That makes him suspect.
   20. cmd600 Posted: December 26, 2013 at 12:32 PM (#4624151)
18- Easily waved off as Chass would claim he was tricked by those evil wizards and couldnt possibly have been expected to know better.
   21. John Northey Posted: December 26, 2013 at 12:35 PM (#4624152)
Regardless of how pathetic his ballot is, having Maddux, Glavine and maybe Thomas will help a bit in the backlog as if even Chass is putting them on his ballot they are safe bets to get in. Maybe next year, with Morris, Maddux, Glavine and maybe Thomas gone he'll give it up. Nah, provides too many hits to his blog.
   22. Hang down your head, Tom Foley Posted: December 26, 2013 at 12:39 PM (#4624155)
McGwire's Pace Is Amazing, Even for Him
Whether or not McGwire surpasses Aaron and his 755 home runs, he has been the most phenomenal development of the past five seasons. He is the Babe Ruth of baseball's new era.

Throughout the column, Chass quotes noted cheater-loving frauds Ernie Banks and (via Banks) Hank Aaron about how great McGwire is. It was written in 2000, two years after the andro-in-the-locker thing.
   23. AROM Posted: December 26, 2013 at 12:50 PM (#4624166)
You can quite easily fill out a 10 player ballot while sticking to your guns on the roiders. For starters, put on one of the guys who made Jack Morris's record look better than it otherwise would have been in both ERA and Wins: Alan Trammell.
   24. Yastrzemski in left. Posted: December 26, 2013 at 12:56 PM (#4624171)
OK, then how can we give teams these guys were on - World Series rings? This have it both ways logic is not working for me. It was an era. It was allowed. Hell, it was practically encouraged. I find it difficult to annihilate the players, negate their career and effort - after all PED's do not automatically make you a HR hitter, all these guys had epic work out routines and dedication - and yet reward the owners of these teams with the massive windfalls that come with World Series and playoff appearances. (There is an argument to be made that steroid users worked HARDER than other players) If any steroid users are banned, then Selig should be banned. If any manager of any of these players are penalized, the owners and franchises should be penalized. Why does the working man always pay for a system problem? Personally, it is what it is, no asterisks, no bans - vote based on what happened on the field. To not vote for Bonds and Clemens for the MLB HOF is just embarrassing. To me, if your job is writing about baseball and you leave these two players off, you need to get over yourself.
   25. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 26, 2013 at 12:59 PM (#4624173)
You can quite easily fill out a 10 player ballot while sticking to your guns on the roiders.


Jack Morris, Tim Raines, Alan Trammell, Fred McGriff, Lee Smith, Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, Curt Schilling, Mike Mussina, and Frank Thomas is a fairly defensible ballot.
   26. LargeBill Posted: December 26, 2013 at 01:05 PM (#4624178)
25. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 26, 2013 at 11:59 AM (#4624173)

You can quite easily fill out a 10 player ballot while sticking to your guns on the roiders.



Jack Morris, Tim Raines, Alan Trammell, Fred McGriff, Lee Smith, Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, Curt Schilling, Mike Mussina, and Frank Thomas is a fairly defensible ballot.


No, it is indefensible to include Morris and exclude Piazza, Bagwell and Biggio. I don't consider using rumor and innuendo and guilt by association to determine that a player's career is tainted by PED usage to be defensible.
   27. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: December 26, 2013 at 01:26 PM (#4624183)
AG#1F: No it isn't. No ballot with Jack Morris on it is defensible. Putting Jack Morris on a Hall of Fame ballot is a stupid thing done by stupid people. Leaving a spot blank is better than putting Jack Morris into it, because it won't actively damage the institution's credibility.
   28. Bitter Mouse Posted: December 26, 2013 at 01:37 PM (#4624185)
Putting Jack Morris on a Hall of Fame ballot is a stupid thing done by stupid people. Leaving a spot blank is better than putting Jack Morris into it, because it won't actively damage the institution's credibility.


I disagree. But I am a big hall mouse.
   29. Heinie Mantush (Krusty) Posted: December 26, 2013 at 01:37 PM (#4624187)

Jack Morris, Tim Raines, Alan Trammell, Fred McGriff, Lee Smith, Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, Curt Schilling, Mike Mussina, and Frank Thomas is a fairly defensible ballot.


Agreed.

Morris seems to have become sui generis at this point, and he'll be in the HOF through Veteran's if not on this ballot. The rest all have an argument, though some stronger than others. The key thing for me is to just see a full ballot, to work through the backlog. If a writer believes that AAS usage was contrary to the basic HOF requirements of integrity, sportsmanship, and character, there is still no excuse for a less than full ballot. Jeff Kent's lack of support is a little surprising, but I guess that's because he was both a late bloomer and (supposedly) a prick.
   30. Mickey Henry Mays Posted: December 26, 2013 at 01:37 PM (#4624188)
AG#1F: No it isn't. No ballot with Jack Morris on it is defensible. Putting Jack Morris on a Hall of Fame ballot is a stupid thing done by stupid people. Leaving a spot blank is better than putting Jack Morris into it, because it won't actively damage the institution's credibility.


That train left the station with Frankie Frisch playing the part of Jon Voight.
   31. Heinie Mantush (Krusty) Posted: December 26, 2013 at 01:38 PM (#4624190)

AG#1F: No it isn't. No ballot with Jack Morris on it is defensible. Putting Jack Morris on a Hall of Fame ballot is a stupid thing done by stupid people. Leaving a spot blank is better than putting Jack Morris into it, because it won't actively damage the institution's credibility.


I don't understand this sentiment. Would Morris really hurt the Hall? He'd probably be the worst BBWAA inductee, but he wouldn't be the absolute worst pitcher in the HOF. I don't think he's a HOF quality pitcher, but the anti-Morris stuff is a little overboard. The Hall's gotten on just fine with Jim Rice (another seemingly undeserving HOF'r), and he inspired this same sort of rhetoric.
   32. LargeBill Posted: December 26, 2013 at 02:07 PM (#4624216)
29. Heinie Mantush (Krusty) Posted: December 26, 2013 at 12:37 PM (#4624187)

Morris seems to have become sui generis at this point, and he'll be in the HOF through Veteran's if not on this ballot.


People keep saying this as though it is a foregone conclusion. I don't think it is as certain as some believe. This is not Frankie Frisch's Veteran's Committee (to paraphrase the Buick commercial). They seem to have difficulty reaching consensus on players from the recent past (Hodges, Concepcion, etc) despite those players having teammates on the various veterans committees.
   33. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: December 26, 2013 at 02:30 PM (#4624234)
I disagree. But I am a big hall mouse.


Morris is your man then. His election will instantly qualify about a hundred other pitchers.
   34. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: December 26, 2013 at 02:31 PM (#4624236)
Krusty: The pro-Morris #### is what's way, way overboard. He's going to get elected in part because those of us who know better are being far too diplomatic about it. People who vote for Jack Morris ought to be shamed.
   35. base ball chick Posted: December 26, 2013 at 02:42 PM (#4624247)
ah done tole youse that bggio was on the rod list. because him and bagwell (the other bad guy) used to be frends with ken caminiti and he used rods AFTER he left the team, but just the same if you are ever friends with someone who rods, t means you did too. we all know that every frend of any drug user uses drupgs too

murry chass can go pound sand

so he doesn't want the "guilty"

so what is hs excuse for no mcgrff or trammel or larry walker or mike musisna? and yes, jack morris would most definitely be the worst piitcher elected to the hall - and elected for pitchng one famous WS game. rdculous
   36. Mickey Henry Mays Posted: December 26, 2013 at 02:48 PM (#4624253)

ah done tole youse that bggio was on the rod list. because him and bagwell (the other bad guy) used to be frends with ken caminiti and he used rods AFTER he left the team, but just the same if you are ever friends with someone who rods, t means you did too. we all know that every frend of any drug user uses drupgs too


Are you being ironic, especially the last sentence.
   37. JRVJ Posted: December 26, 2013 at 02:52 PM (#4624255)
Personally, I am disgusted that no Primate has befriended Chass, so as to trick him into the mother of all benders from the date the ballots are sent to writers to the deadline date.

I'm taking Hangover 1, 2 & 3 back-to-back-to-back type benders.

Come on, Primates, do it for Tramell! For Raines! For Moose! Even for Schilling!
   38. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: December 26, 2013 at 02:58 PM (#4624259)
Morris was probably better than Rube Marquard. He might have been better than Jesse Haines. That's about it.
   39. ajnrules Posted: December 26, 2013 at 03:17 PM (#4624270)
I'd argue that Morris is better than Catfish Hunter, who was voted in via the BBWAA.
   40. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: December 26, 2013 at 03:19 PM (#4624273)
You'd be wrong. At least Catfish had a peak.
   41. alilisd Posted: December 26, 2013 at 03:22 PM (#4624277)
Jeff Kent's lack of support is a little surprising, but I guess that's because he was both a late bloomer and (supposedly) a prick.


Could be because he would be a lower tier HOF 2B as well.
   42. BDC Posted: December 26, 2013 at 03:26 PM (#4624283)
Hall of Fame pitchers with fewer IP and lower career OPS+ than Jack Morris:

IP ERA+
Jake Beckley         4.0   50
Jesse Burkett        5.0  105
Ty Cobb              5.0   99
Catfish Hunter    3449.1  104
Rube Marquard     3306.2  103
Tris Speaker         1.0   47 


(Haines's OPS+ was 109.)
   43. Bitter Mouse Posted: December 26, 2013 at 03:29 PM (#4624288)
Morris is your man then. His election will instantly qualify about a hundred other pitchers.


Hey I don't support Morris for the Hall. Against it in fact. But I don't think it a crime against humanity or anything. He has a good narrative, and to some that matters (even if it should not).
   44. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 26, 2013 at 03:30 PM (#4624289)
Morris is your man then. His election will instantly qualify about a hundred other pitchers.




Only if those pitchers ever pitch a big game in the World Series.

Morris would be the Bill Mazeroski of pitchers.
   45. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: December 26, 2013 at 03:53 PM (#4624302)
If any steroid users are banned, then Selig should be banned. If any manager of any of these players are penalized, the owners and franchises should be penalized.

Judgment at Nuremburg, Animal House and now BBTF!
   46. LargeBill Posted: December 26, 2013 at 03:54 PM (#4624303)
37. JRVJ Posted: December 26, 2013 at 01:52 PM (#4624255)
Personally, I am disgusted that no Primate has befriended Chass, so as to trick him into the mother of all benders from the date the ballots are sent to writers to the deadline date.

I'm taking Hangover 1, 2 & 3 back-to-back-to-back type benders.

Come on, Primates, do it for Tramell! For Raines! For Moose! Even for Schilling!


Can we take shifts? Getting older and don't recover from the benders quite as well as I once did.
   47. base ball chick Posted: December 26, 2013 at 03:55 PM (#4624305)
Mickey Henry Mays Posted: December 26, 2013 at 01:48 PM (#4624253)


ah done tole youse that bggio was on the rod list. because him and bagwell (the other bad guy) used to be frends with ken caminiti and he used rods AFTER he left the team, but just the same if you are ever friends with someone who rods, t means you did too. we all know that every frend of any drug user uses drugs too


Are you being ironic, especially the last sentence.


- oh of COURSE not
when i was 15, my best friend died from an overdose and this means that i used drugs and died, too. also, i come from a family of alcoholics and this means i drink, too.

right murray?
   48. Mickey Henry Mays Posted: December 26, 2013 at 05:29 PM (#4624350)


- oh of COURSE not
when i was 15, my best friend died from an overdose and this means that i used drugs and died, too. also, i come from a family of alcoholics and this means i drink, too.

right murray?


It was your writing style that led me to question your sobriety.
   49. Shoebo Posted: December 26, 2013 at 05:53 PM (#4624360)
The best way to get Repoz to stop linking to this troll is to not comment on the post. Oh wait....
   50. bobm Posted: December 26, 2013 at 08:58 PM (#4624427)
[18]

Murray Chass (1998): BASEBALL; Unequal Treatment Is Raised In Chase

The suggestion has not reached the proportions of a national debate, but talk about it has become part of the home run race that has commanded the nation's attention: Major League Baseball has slighted Sammy Sosa in its treatment of him and Mark McGwire, and race is the reason.

   51. ptodd Posted: December 26, 2013 at 10:42 PM (#4624447)
I don't question anymore. I am just tuning out. The BBWA have made the HOF irrelevant.

Let the PED users join the racists, pot heads, drunks, coke heads, adulterers, spousal abusers, DUI'ers, etc in the HOF, or don't. I just don't care anymore.
   52. Sunday silence Posted: December 27, 2013 at 01:26 AM (#4624521)
Is this the kind of thing people did in the old days during the off season?
   53. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: December 27, 2013 at 02:38 AM (#4624528)
Most of this is tripe, but I always empathize with this point:


2 - If I’m wrong on any particular player, so be it, but I’d rather err on the side of caution. I wouldn’t want to learn two or three years after the fact that I had helped elect a cheater. Anyway my one vote won’t keep anyone out of the Hall.


Unless a player is in danger of dropping below 5% or on their last year on the ballot, if you think there might be more information forthcoming or are interested in discussing the issue further (neither really fits with Chass), you should vote no. This has generally not been relevant (Kirby Puckett excepted) but for this era, if you care about PEDs, I think erring on the side of caution on a player like Bagwell makes sense.

The problem here lies with the Hall's voting procedure, where (a) there's a 10 person ballot limit, and (b) there is no way to indicate that you'd like to keep a player on the ballot without pushing him towards the HoF (though this is not really a problem as the winds are not hard to read -- e.g. no way will Mussina be inducted this year so voting for him is "safe", no way will Bonds fall off so not voting for him is "safe".)
   54. ??'s Biggest Fan! Posted: December 27, 2013 at 09:04 AM (#4624552)
Chass worked at the Times when Jayson Blair was there. Why is Murray Chass getting a free pass on his participation in one of the worst journalism scandals in this century?
   55. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: December 27, 2013 at 09:54 AM (#4624558)
Only if those pitchers ever pitch a big game in the World Series.

Morris would be the Bill Mazeroski of pitchers.


That's grossly unfair to Mazeroski. He's the best defensive second baseman ever - that's not enough to earn your way into the Hall, but at least it's something. Morris has never been the best in baseball at anything.
   56. Bug Selig Posted: December 27, 2013 at 01:13 PM (#4624686)
Give me a break. He hit .294, which is pretty good but not a Hall of Famer by a longshot unless you hit a lot of home runs. Raines barely hit any home runs, didn't drive in runs... he was a good player, but while he was playing nobody ever looked at Tim Raines and said "there's a Hall of Famer, I can't wait to take my boy to the park to watch Tim Raines play."


Yes, some did.
   57. Dan Evensen Posted: December 27, 2013 at 02:34 PM (#4624735)
Insert obligatory complaint about Repoz always linking to Murray Chass here.
   58. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: December 27, 2013 at 02:37 PM (#4624737)
Give me a break. He hit .294, which is pretty good but not a Hall of Famer by a longshot unless you hit a lot of home runs. Raines barely hit any home runs, didn't drive in runs... he was a good player, but while he was playing nobody ever looked at Tim Raines and said "there's a Hall of Famer, I can't wait to take my boy to the park to watch Tim Raines play."



Yes, some did.

I think you might want to take a look at that post again.

   59. tfbg9 Posted: December 27, 2013 at 02:50 PM (#4624746)
And the NYT article linked in post 50 is journalism at its worst. Chase is, and always was a vile, baseless allegation slinging, bitter POS.
   60. MelOtt4 Posted: December 27, 2013 at 09:51 PM (#4624989)
Why is Jack Morris let off the hook for possible steroid use? He goes from over the hill with the Tigers to the very next season an All-Star, 4th in the Cy Young and goes 10 innings in the 7th game of the World Series.

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