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1. bjhanke Posted: June 18, 2012 at 09:03 AM (#4159776)Colby Rasmus' OPS+ in Toronto, where they're happy to have Colby's dad be his hitting coach or whatever he calls it: 37, 106.
The 108 in STL and the 37 in Toronto are his splits in 2011. - Brock Hanke
c'mon.
colby rasmus was jd drew take 2. it's ok. some guys who can play are not a fit for some teams. tony has a plan and if you don't conform to the plan you got dumped. many great managers took the same approach including the cardinals manager many of the bbtf'ers here love to hate, whitey herzog
just accept that rasmus will likely play in the bigs for 15 years, have a nice career and it won't be for the cardinals. and that happened because the cards manager didn't want him on the team. end of story.
At this point, having Mel Gibson as his father would be less damaging and distracting to his career. Colby should buy his folks a nice retirement lodge out in the middle of nowhere and encourage his dad to take up fishing.
Edit: 50-year-old men should not wear the Gagne on their chins.
The difference is Whitey traded away a star drug user and TLR traded for a star drug user. /sarcasm
While I don't believe it's been announces, I would be shocked if Rasmus wasn't the one to move to LF. He's not anything special in CF, and Gose is talked about in extremely complimentary terms there.
Rhythm - you have it or you don't - that's a fallacy!
It begs the question, is this a fallacy?
I'm afraid you've just given Jodie Foster the idea for the sequel Bad News Beavers.
Gose making the major leagues is an "if", not a "when". No idea if the guy's going to hit enough, although there is some reason for optimism.
And don't count out Snider for LF, either; his floor as a hitter is probably pretty close to Gose's ceiling.
Wouldn't be surprised if Rasmus stayed in CF; some people are quite high on his defense. I have no strong opinions about it but I certainly don't see the need to move him.
One solution might be an OF of Snider-Gose-Rasmus, with Bautista at 1B and Encarnacion at DH.
Since May 18th, when Colby got a couple of days off to work on a new stance, he's hitting .321/.357/.623.
every manager has players he does/does not like - and it isn't related to how good the player actually IS.
and TLR very obviously did NOT like colby rasmus. and by the time colby got traded, the st looey media didn't like him neither, so it's best he got another start somewheres else.
Torre managed the Cards 1990-1995. It's true that White was a much better player than Ray Lankford 1991-1993, but Lankford was a lot better than White after that. I can see the logic in not getting White if they had Lankford. I assume you meant he wanted them to acquire White after the 1990 season when the Blue Jays got him for Junior Felix and spare parts. I'm guessing that the Cards would have had to include Lankford or some equivalent player in a deal for White.
i mention that in case anyone stops by and scoffs at the cards having to offer up lankford. at the time they would have been regarded as somewhat equivalent talents
Firstly:I don't know that we can say that. Perhaps he just doesn't feel he can tell his father what to do. A lot of people feel that way.
Harveys is right that TLR had "a system" that he wanted his players to "buy into". Althouth this is common in other sports, I find it to be a weird approach to baseball, a sport which involves very little on-field cooperation with teammates. But, TLR was one of the greatest managers of all time and it worked for him. As to Rasmus in particular, the Cardinals likely would not have won the World Series had they not traded him. Thus, unless Rasmus puts up a John Smoltz career, St. Louis should not think twice about having traded him. He is not turning out to be John Smoltz. It is not even clear that he is above average. "He changed his stance on X date a month ago, after which he's hit well" is a really bad argument. (In other words, "You mean my whole fallacy is wrong!", as Woody Allen scripted Marshall McLuhan to say in the Best Original Screenplay-winning Annie Hall...)
At the time, he seemed to have tons and tons of tools, and looked like he was going to develop into a star. Of course, those projections were largely based on the assumption that he was actually his stated age. It was later speculated that he was at least a half dozen years older than his stated age, and possibly even as much as a decade older.
walter alston had a specific approach
bill mckechnie had a specific approach
mike scioscia has a specific approach
all of them had guys traded for or traded guys who either fit or didn't fit. you think mike napoli would be in texas if not for mike scioscia?
it isn't common and the manager better win to get his way but it does exist
He's holding his own in the PCL at 21, and had a solid season last year.
And don't count out Snider for LF, either; his floor as a hitter is probably pretty close to Gose's ceiling.
Except that Gose's speed and defense add value-- if Snider's not hitting, he's not helping the team. I'm still pulling for him.
Well, nobody's asked him about gay marriage yet.
Unless you're also unclear as to whether guys like Shane Victorino and BJ Upton are above average, Colby Rasmus is above the bar.
travis hasn't been a disaster but he's been up with the club multiple times and never grabbed a hold of a job and kept it
lots of reasons i know
just figure someone is finally going to throw in the towel and somebody is going to get a bat for a very reasonable price
okey dokey. hope so. kid looks like a keeper
Obligatory PCL qualifier:
Snider
.337/.418/.587
Team
.310/.378/.470
For fun:
Lind
.412/.475/.667
d'Arnaud
.335/.385/.602
Woodward (yep, that one)
.233/.280/.370
I am too. Don't disregard Snider's speed and defense, though; neither one are bad at all. He's a fast runner, although not Gose fast, and he's a good enough outfielder that he could play CF for a while if you really needed him to. He's not Eric Thames out there.
I don't think the Jays are going to give up on him until a) they have no other choice, or b) they have an obviously better option. As has often been observed, Snider is exactly the kind of guy Anthopoulos would be trying to trade for if he were in any other organization.
Branch Rickey and Roberto Clemente?
Thanks, I did not realize he was that good. "Often banged up" + RF moved to LF + power hitter= me making bad assumptions.
I don't recall the Jays having this much young talent in their organization since the early '90s. If only they could stop bleeding starters...
Romero/Alvarez/Cecil/Richmond?-Carreno?-Chavez?-Coello?
or
Morrow/Drabek/Hutchison/McGowan/Litsch
?
But then I think they really haven't been too badly off for injuries over the past few years and were probably due for something like this.
that's interesting since tony larussa directly accused colby of ignoring hitting coach mark mcgwire and only listening to his father.
that remark was made shortly before rasmus was traded.
who knows what really happened?
If only ...
Any other Jays fans see the Rasmus interview on/by Sportsnet? During the Braves or Nationals series perhaps?
And on a broader note, while Rasmus has been on a tear as of late, his early season stats are misleading. For a while he as leading the Jays in line drive % while still managing to hit under .200 - it seemed every hard hit ball went straight into a glove. That said, there has definitely been a change in mechanics as he's closer both to the pitcher and the plate. Hopefully the changes stick.
Why not?
Is he? I thought the consensue about Whitey the manager around here was that he was a genius and fielded fun, fast teams. The consensus about Whitey the grumpy old codger is "love to hate".
But BBTF contains multitudes and no doubt there are some here who hate Whitey Herzog the manager.
there is a strong subset who insist whitey is overrated and speak of him in negative terms.
They're rumored (romoured?) to be in on Guthrie, which actually wouldn't be a bad thing, if it only costs them money. It looked like they had a shot this year, but with all of the injuries, I think the best bet is to just use minor/cheap "upgrades" like Guthrie. Getting Arencibia out of the lineup for 2013 will help immensely.
TLR is just kinda nutty, but has a stronger managing record than whitey.
you meant whitey, but i get it. just mentioning that in case anybody else was confused.
And phredbird is right, too. I edited my comment to change TLR to Whitey. Just another brain freeze. - Brock
:)
His wife was extremely polite (apologizing profusely to my father when Cobly's daughter spilled her popcorn down his back), and very charming. Heavy southern accent, teased hair, nicely tanned, and all the look of a former beauty/homecoming queen.
His daughter was unbelievably adorable. She was wearing a princess costume, with a Blue Jays jersey over top of it (Rasmus, naturally).
Every time they announced Colby coming to the plate, she's say out loud "That's my daddy!"
It was before his recent hot streak, so Rasmus popped up rather weakly. I could see my dad biting his tongue to avoid revealing any frustration in front of Colby's family, when we heard his wife say under her breath "Come on, baby. You can do better than that!"
The 37 was in 35 games, after he changed leagues in the middle of a season. It is not unusual for guys to struggle with that kind of change.
Why call up the ghost of Mel Gibson, when Kevin Costner will do:
"If you believe you're playing well because you're getting laid, or because you're not getting laid, or because you wear women's underwear, then you *are*! And you should know that! "
I don't think he is overrated.
He managed the Cardinals. That is more than enough reason to hate him.
colby rasmus personality was a poor fit for the cards. you go over to most cards websites and the commenters there were predicting that rasmus would get 'drewed' by tony sooner rather than later.
guys who are low-key professionals (drew, scott rolen, rasmus) bug the ever living bejeezus out of tony. hey, it worked for the guy so saying that is stupid is stupid since the man has the skins on the wall to show for his efforts.
everybody would be best served to accept that it didn't work and move on but is often the case the parties feel compelled to throw darts justifying their actions. sad but true
Moving Keith Hernandez off of first seems like a really bad idea.
was wondering about that too, but hernandez did have a good throwing arm for a first baseman. in fact, it was exceptional. maybe whitey thought he could move keith to right field, keeping simmons bat in the lineup, a definite plus.
however, his public comments on this, esp. in his book, was more about getting the druggie hernandez off the team. i wonder if whitey thinks he looks better if thats his story.
yeah, if there's anything that bugged me about tony besides the bajillion pitchers per game, it was this stuff with rasmus/drew/rolen. at the time of the trade, i was wondering if TLR had finally shot off his foot ... but we know how it turned out, so, whatever. grin and bear it.
History tells us that this kind of player will often be criticized. The Blue Jays, in an earlier era, basically ran Shannon Stewart and John Olerud out of town because of their quiet demeanours. The perception seems to be that if you're not an extrovert, you don't care about winning.
Certainly the Toronto fans have been slow to accept Rasmus. I hear it on the call-in shows; they want a guy who's "fiery".
So it's not fair. But it's also probably not the last time Rasmus is going to have to deal with it.
harry dalton/george bamberger didn't give a hoot and the team enjoyed these players very much.
later when ben ogilvie brought his wife to the clubhouse his teammates enjoyed that very, very much. mrs. ogilvie was a looker.
Two different points in time. The grand scheme to move Simmons to first and Hernandez to left (not right) was after the 1980 season, after Herzog came in and Porter, his catcher from KC, was signed as a FA. Simmons had already proved to be unable to play OF in a failed experiment when Terry Kennedy was coming up, so Hernandez was going to have to change positions, too. When Hernandez balked, it was Simmons who was dealt away.
The drug ultimatum -- get clean or get out -- came years later, early in the 1983 season. That's when Hernandez was traded.
Only AL CFs with a higher wOBA & wRC than Rasmus are Granderson & Jones.
Plus, the question of who is a center fielder is a little fuzzy. Josh Hamilton has played more games in CF than anywhere else on the field, and his batting numbers of course trounce Rasmus'. Mike Trout is primarily a CF, and like Jackson he has more wRC (41 in Trout's case) in 75 fewer PA than Rasmus.
And the "higher wOBA & wRC" is a bit of a hack - these are wRC, wOBA, and wRC+ for Rasmus, Alejandro de Aza, Michael Saunders, Denard Span, and BJ Upton:
40 wRC, .344 wOBA, 113 wRC+ - Alejandro de Aza
36 wRC, .341 wOBA, 114 wRC+ - Colby Rasmus
34 wRC, .337 wOBA, 116 wRC+ - Michael Saunders
35 wRC, .333 wOBA, 110 wRC+ - Denard Span
27 wRC, .326 wOBA, 109 wRC+ - BJ Upton
Rasmus is having a nice year, which fits in with those guys, and really has nothing to do with Granderson or Jones (or Jackson, Trout, or Hamilton).
What is going on with AL CF, by the way? This sort of suddenly became the best position in baseball - and that's with Jacoby Ellsbury on the shelf.
Name Team PA wOBA wRC+ Josh Hamilton Rangers 269 .440 177 Austin Jackson Tigers 202 .418 166 Mike Trout Angels 214 .412 164 Scott Podsednik Red Sox 70 .403 152 Quintin Berry Tigers 94 .397 151 Adam Jones Orioles 293 .394 149 Craig Gentry Rangers 125 .378 135 Curtis Granderson Yankees 305 .372 133 Yoenis Cespedes Athletics 146 .354 126 Alejandro De Aza White Sox 294 .344 113 Colby Rasmus Blue Jays 271 .341 114http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=cf&stats=bat&lg=al&qual=0&type=1&season=2012&month=0&season1=2012&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&players=0#custom
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