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Thursday, April 04, 2019

Nationals and Phillies trade bullpen meltdowns as Craig Kimbrel still sits on the market

For all the money both teams spent in the offseason, the Washington Nationals and Philadelphia Phillies have the same weakness: Their bullpens.

Both teams provided a masterclass in late-inning failures during the Nationals’ 9-8 win Wednesday.

The Nationals bullpen collapsed first, giving up four runs in the eighth inning. Tony Sipp, Trevor Rosenthal and Kyle Barraclough all played a role in the disastrous inning. While Barraclough gave up the hits that allowed all four runs to score, Rosenthal’s performance is far more concerning.

With the Nationals now down by two runs, it was Philadelphia’s turn to implode. Seranthony Domínguez allowed a single and then a run-scoring double to cut the Phillies’ lead to one run in the eighth. A few batters later, the tying run came around to score on an error.

Bullpens blow games on the Eastern Seaboard!

Bullpens blow games while Craig Kimbrel sits!

 

 

QLE Posted: April 04, 2019 at 05:16 AM | 32 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: craig kimbrel, nationals, phillies

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   1. flournoy Posted: April 04, 2019 at 06:26 AM (#5828453)
Better than having him sit idle in the bullpen while you blow a deciding playoff game.
   2. Jose is Absurdly Unemployed Posted: April 04, 2019 at 08:41 AM (#5828472)
Kimbrel is in backup quarterback territory right now. The longer he sits, the better he gets. He did a good job for the Sox the last three years but he was far from a sure thing last year. He somehow parlayed a WHIP of 1.78 in the playoffs into going 6 for 6 in save opportunities and over the balance of the season he was good, not great. He's not the Craig Kimbrel of five years ago. I'd still love him in a Sox uniform but on a one or two year deal and I suspect a lot of teams feel that way and Kimbrel wants a Wade Davis deal at minimum.
   3. Tom Nawrocki Posted: April 04, 2019 at 08:47 AM (#5828475)
In Kimbrel's defense, he's better than Wade Davis. But I think not even the Rockies would give out another Wade Davis-type deal.
   4. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: April 04, 2019 at 09:17 AM (#5828489)
I feel bad for Kimbrel, not because I think he is being misvalued by the market. It's because the market is properly valuing him right now, given the current rules (draft pick compensation, for example), and I suspect he got some bad advice along the line this winter.

In hindsight, if he had taken the one-year qualifying offer from the Red Sox, he'd be on a one-year contract for $17.9 million, would be the unquestioned closer, and would enter next off-season a free agent without a qualifying offer hung around his neck. He picks up, say, a 4/$48m contract starting in 2020, and it becomes, in effect, a 5/$66m deal for him (with the risk of a one-year deal being the big problem on the front end).

If he knew in November what he knows now, would he do it? Also, the Red Sox didn't want him to take the qualifying offer - they were trying to stay under certain luxury cap thresholds, I believe, and are much more worried about extending guys like Sale, Bogaerts, and Betts.

He's still a valuable pitcher, and he's fun to watch, and teams could use him...the current system has a lot of unusual consequences.
   5. SoSH U at work Posted: April 04, 2019 at 09:49 AM (#5828497)
and he's fun to watch


Wow, I don't know if I've ever disagreed with something more. From that stupid pre-pitch pterodactyl pose to the maddening habit of turning every outing (in a Sox uniform) into a nailbiter*, I don't think I've ever enjoyed watching an important Sox player less than I did Kimbrel.


* In his defense, I suspect my timing was also quite bad, in that he simply tended to have sketchy outings when I was tuned in.
   6. Nasty Nate Posted: April 04, 2019 at 09:53 AM (#5828499)
He was fun to watch in 2017. In 2018, especially in the playoffs, he was un-fun.
   7. Lassus Posted: April 04, 2019 at 10:12 AM (#5828504)
I'd agree with #5.
   8. PreservedFish Posted: April 04, 2019 at 10:16 AM (#5828508)
Also, his beard bothers me. I'm generally in favor of beards and scruffy ballplayers, but his beard is unsettling.
   9. Answer Guy. Posted: April 04, 2019 at 10:33 AM (#5828511)
Wow, I don't know if I've ever disagreed with something more. From that stupid pre-pitch pterodactyl pose to the maddening habit of turning every outing (in a Sox uniform) into a nailbiter*, I don't think I've ever enjoyed watching an important Sox player less than I did Kimbrel.


This was written by someone who never watched Dice-K nibble around a light-hitting utility infielder like he was Mickey Mantle.
   10. JRVJ Posted: April 04, 2019 at 10:40 AM (#5828512)
I was following that game yesterday, and frankly, it was one of those odd games in which everybody gets hit/pitches badly.
   11. SoSH U at work Posted: April 04, 2019 at 10:47 AM (#5828516)
This was written by someone who never watched Dice-K nibble around a light-hitting utility infielder like he was Mickey Mantle.


Oh, I remember. Even committed my disdain to verse here.
But at least he didn't combine his nibbling with looking like a scruffy crane.
   12. Dromedary pretzels, only half a dinar (CoB). Posted: April 04, 2019 at 10:49 AM (#5828517)

Wow, I don't know if I've ever disagreed with something more. From that stupid pre-pitch pterodactyl pose to the maddening habit of turning every outing (in a Sox uniform) into a nailbiter*, I don't think I've ever enjoyed watching an important Sox player less than I did Kimbrel.


Papelbon, with that stupid "Private Pyle from Full Metal Jacket" stare.

Backpfeifengesicht.

But that's purely aesthetics ...
   13. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: April 04, 2019 at 11:01 AM (#5828521)
Ok, ok. I don't like his beard, and he created a lot of unnecessary drama in 2018 as a Red Sox fan, and the whole arm hanging from the side thing is odd. However, in a sport where one of The Greatest Players Ever (Mike Trout) is virtually unrecognizable to the general public by name, much less face, baseball needs some players who are different and interesting. When he's on, he is unhittable, and the excitement in the ballpark comes through the TV. It reminds me a little bit of what it felt like as a kid when Goose Gossage came in the game at his peak.
   14. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 04, 2019 at 11:09 AM (#5828528)
However, in a sport where one of The Greatest Players Ever (Mike Trout) is virtually unrecognizable to the general public by name, much less face, baseball needs some players who are different and interesting.


Mike Trout is plenty interesting - see his fascination with meteorology. Baseball is just bad at marketing itself, and it doesn't help that the Angels have been garbage for most of his career.
   15. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: April 04, 2019 at 12:34 PM (#5828564)
   16. Swoboda is freedom Posted: April 04, 2019 at 12:37 PM (#5828567)
He pitched kind of mediocre the last 2 months of the season, and was terrible in playoffs, but he is definitely worth a deal.
   17. Koot Posted: April 04, 2019 at 12:52 PM (#5828571)
I don't think I've ever enjoyed watching an important Sox player less than I did Kimbrel.


Someone already beat me to Dice-K. Watching Clay Buchholz slow a game to a crawl was brutal too.
   18. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: April 04, 2019 at 12:57 PM (#5828574)
   19. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: April 04, 2019 at 01:00 PM (#5828576)
Mike Trout is plenty interesting - see his fascination with meteorology.
Er, not sure a fascination with meteorology is much of a selling point in terms of interest to the general public.
   20. SoSH U at work Posted: April 04, 2019 at 01:03 PM (#5828578)
This guy was/is? famous for being really deliberate


That trait was also noted in my link in 11.

   21. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: April 04, 2019 at 01:19 PM (#5828583)
21--Sorry man, didn't check it out. Apologies for the rerun.
   22. SoSH U at work Posted: April 04, 2019 at 01:27 PM (#5828589)

21--Sorry man, didn't check it out. Apologies for the rerun.


No need for that. Just noting the fact I had mentioned both of those infuriating pitchers.
   23. bfan Posted: April 04, 2019 at 02:56 PM (#5828621)
to the maddening habit of turning every outing (in a Sox uniform) into a nailbiter*, I don't think I've ever enjoyed watching an important Sox player less than I did Kimbrel.


Kimbrel's lifetime WHIP, and his red Sox WHIP, are both lower than (god of relievers) Mariano Rivera's lifetime WHIP. Top notch relievers are not automatically given a 1-2-3 inning, every time out.
   24. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 04, 2019 at 03:04 PM (#5828627)
Er, not sure a fascination with meteorology is much of a selling point in terms of interest to the general public.


Not necessarily in general terms, but the way he does it is pretty charming - like Rube Waddell and his fire trucks.
   25. SoSH U at work Posted: April 04, 2019 at 03:19 PM (#5828638)
Kimbrel's lifetime WHIP, and his red Sox WHIP, are both lower than (god of relievers) Mariano Rivera's lifetime WHIP. Top notch relievers are not automatically given a 1-2-3 inning, every time out.


As I said in the asterisked portion, there was some unfortunate selection bias involved, as he almost never pitched well when I got to watch him. And there's no way of looking at his 2018 postseason that doesn't resemble a high-wire act, 6-6 on saves notwithstanding.

   26. SandyRiver Posted: April 04, 2019 at 03:37 PM (#5828646)
Also, his beard bothers me. I'm generally in favor of beards and scruffy ballplayers, but his beard is unsettling.

Is that because he uses it to groom the mound dirt while getting the sign?

Er, not sure a fascination with meteorology is much of a selling point in terms of interest to the general public.

I'm not "General Public", but it works for me. That was my chosen vocation until I discovered my calculus allergy. Plus his hometown is only about 20 miles from where our grandkids live. What's not to like?
   27. Ziggy is done with Dominican discotheques Posted: April 04, 2019 at 04:08 PM (#5828660)
like Rube Waddell and his fire trucks.


The only thing that could make me like Mike Trout more is if he chased fire trucks.
   28. Man o' Schwar Posted: April 04, 2019 at 04:15 PM (#5828663)
The only thing that could make me like Mike Trout more is if he chased fire trucks.

If Mike Trout chased fire trucks, he would catch fire trucks.
   29. Walt Davis Posted: April 04, 2019 at 04:35 PM (#5828669)
Dominguez pitched OK. He gave up a legit run but the game was tied on a tap back to the pitcher that he threw slightly inaccurately and Hoskins couldn't bother to catch it.
   30. bfan Posted: April 04, 2019 at 04:57 PM (#5828679)
As I said in the asterisked portion, there was some unfortunate selection bias involved, as he almost never pitched well when I got to watch him. And there's no way of looking at his 2018 postseason that doesn't resemble a high-wire act, 6-6 on saves notwithstanding.


I completely get what you are saying. I was amazed that Kimbrel's WHIP was left than Rivera's, because in reading summaries of Rivera's career leading up to his HOF vote, I was under the impression that the only base-runners Rivera gave up in his entire career were the ones against the Diamondbacks in the 7th game of that world series.
   31. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 04, 2019 at 05:54 PM (#5828700)
Wrong thread.
   32. Answer Guy. Posted: April 04, 2019 at 06:19 PM (#5828706)
I was under the impression that the only base-runners Rivera gave up in his entire career were the ones against the Diamondbacks in the 7th game of that world series.


There was The Steal. I don't remember him holding runners too well, although that's pretty common for closers.

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