I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what the site is really about: making fun of sportswriters and immigration reform.
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802. jmurph
Posted: October 31, 2012 at 01:24 PM (#4289356)
I'm not much of an NBA fan, and I know this has been talked about at great length on this thread, but the Celtics seem a deeply unlikable group of players. Treating Ray Allen as some kind of villain because he had the audacity to sign with the Heat after he lost his starting job in Boston?
I think Garnett is best understood as a raving lunatic robot who likes to play defense and yell at people. He's not "human" per se.
I actually mostly can't argue with this. I'm a Celtics fan, but I find Paul Pierce's offensive game to be almost entirely unwatchable and Garnett's bullying to be pretty loathsome. I've also never liked Jason Terry's whole deal. But I can't get mad at Rondo, and I find Doc to be extremely likable, and I'm bizarrely attached to Jeff Green, and I'm really excited about this new group of players. In fact I'm probably more excited about this team than any since the championship year.
803. Jimmy P
Posted: October 31, 2012 at 01:24 PM (#4289357)
Treating Ray Allen as some kind of villain because he had the audacity to sign with the Heat after he lost his starting job in Boston?
And got more money.
What about Rondo's clothesline of Wade? Just another classy move
804. NJ in DC
Posted: October 31, 2012 at 01:32 PM (#4289368)
What about Rondo's clothesline of Wade? Just another classy move
To be fair, Teflon Dwyane is also kind of an ####### based on watching games and not knowing him.
I think Garnett is best understood as a raving lunatic robot who likes to play defense and yell at people. He's not "human" per se.
Yeah, this is something I meant to say as well. Whatever Garnett's fundamental human qualities, the...thing he becomes on the court is just really unattractive.
And Rondo simply comes off as a jerk of the highest order.
It doesn't help that everything I've read about Allen makes him seem like a genuinely interesting, worldly, admirable figure. Set him against Rajon Rondo and it's really easy to pick a favorite.
Hollins was the target of my favorite Basketball quote, by Andrew Toney, in response to how Maurice Cheeks and Lionel Hollins helped him as a rookie: "Mo, he tells me what it is; Trane, he tells me what it be".
He couldn't have had 2 better teachers.
808. jmurph
Posted: October 31, 2012 at 01:56 PM (#4289398)
It doesn't help that everything I've read about Allen makes him seem like a genuinely interesting, worldly, admirable figure. Set him against Rajon Rondo and it's really easy to pick a favorite.
See now this part seems totally obvious to me. Their teammate just left to sign with the team that knocked them out of the playoffs. Of course they're going to hold it against him. Doesn't mean they wouldn't do it themselves, doesn't mean they begrudge the guy getting a deal he liked better, it's just simple: you were one of us, now you're one of them, therefore we're not cool. That seems perfectly logical to me. They're competitive people.
809. smileyy
Posted: October 31, 2012 at 01:58 PM (#4289401)
The Celtics "Ubuntu" us-against-the-world thing works well for a little while, until guys start getting traded, and its not an "us" anymore -- this echoes sentiments in the "Pittsburgh Pirates SEAL training thread". Though with a lot of the core (Garnett and Pierce would be the forces behind this, I'd guess) still there, I can see the attitude still being able to hold.
The Reggie Miller 30-for-30 talked about the Knicks having a similar attitude, but to a more thuggish extent. There was the "no helping an opposing player up", which seems ok but will lead to chippy games, and the "knock a guy to the floor if he drives the lane", which isn't ok and will lead to fights and awful basketball. I do like the "no shots after the whistle" thing the C's did (still do?) as a meaningless non-violent show of team seriousness.
So, to get brief, my overall take is I might not like the Celtics team attitude, but I can appreciate it as their way of winning, because I'd rather see a team that cares than a team that doesn't.
What about Rondo's clothesline of Wade?
Isn't some of that payback for Wade's armbar of Rondo last year?
Edit: Echoing [808] I can understand Garnett being of a mindset where he can't be friends with Ray Allen right now. If that extends until after one or the other retires, then you're really being a *($#.
810. NJ in DC
Posted: October 31, 2012 at 02:00 PM (#4289404)
I do like the "no shots after the whistle" thing the C's did (still do?) as a meaningless non-violent show of team seriousness.
The Knicks do this. I hate it and think it looks stupid. On the other hand, I, as a lifelong Knick fan *sobs uncontrollably* LOVED not shaking hands, helping opposing players up, or allowing anyone to drive the lane.
811. Jimmy P
Posted: October 31, 2012 at 02:05 PM (#4289408)
Just another subjective opinion
No, pretty sure clotheslining a guy in basketball is pretty cheap. And, I bet that's a pretty universal opinion.
The Celtics "Ubuntu" us-against-the-world thing works well for a little while, until guys start getting traded, and its not an "us" anymore
Yeah. The thing that makes it really funny is Allen played longer on non-Celtics teams in his career than Celtics. In fact, didn't he play on two teams each longer than the Celtics? It's not like he was drafted by them
812. GregD
Posted: October 31, 2012 at 02:06 PM (#4289409)
Count me among the people who prefer bad sportsmanship to the lack of interest in winning that at times seems to pop up in the NBA.
813. smileyy
Posted: October 31, 2012 at 02:11 PM (#4289412)
The Knicks do this. I hate it and think it looks stupid.
It probably looks pretty stupid if you're not a title contender, like the C's were when they started doing it.
814. NJ in DC
Posted: October 31, 2012 at 02:13 PM (#4289414)
It probably looks pretty stupid if you're not a title contender, like the C's were when they started doing it.
No, I think it just generally looks stupid.
EDIT:Count me among the people who prefer bad sportsmanship to the lack of interest in winning that at times seems to pop up in the NBA.
Agree with the bolded.
815. smileyy
Posted: October 31, 2012 at 02:15 PM (#4289416)
Fair enough. "[not] allowing anyone to drive the lane" is a similar subjective thing, where its kind of awesome if its your team doing it (effectively), and just ugly basketball if that's not your team you're watching
816. Booey
Posted: October 31, 2012 at 02:16 PM (#4289418)
Count me among the people who prefer bad sportsmanship to the lack of interest in winning that at times seems to pop up in the NBA.
Same. I'd take a jerk who would do anything to win like Garnett over a nice but indifferent player like Vinsanity any day of the week.
(and I'm talking only about attitudes. Obviously there's a country mile between their level of performance as well)
817. NJ in DC
Posted: October 31, 2012 at 02:18 PM (#4289420)
Fair enough. "[not] allowing anyone to drive the lane" is a similar subjective thing, where its kind of awesome if its your team doing it (effectively), and just ugly basketball if that's not your team you're watching
No, I enjoy ugly basketball and rivlaries and mutual hatred and all that stuff. I just think the post play blocked shot thing is ridiculous because a.) it has no effect on the score and b.) (this is the main reason) you would see guys literally run across the lane to try and block a shot (that wouldnt't count) and I just thought it actually looked ridiculous, as in laughable, especially when guys missed.
818. Jimmy P
Posted: October 31, 2012 at 02:36 PM (#4289433)
Nj/817 - I do too, which doesn't mean that I don't support league wide initiatives to clean up rough play... just that I like when people play on the rougher end of the continuum of what's considered acceptable. (hell, Larry Smith was an idol of mine as a kid, I'd have to agree with you)
I also enjoy post whistle shots / block attempts...
I really didn't read that as a clothesline. It looked to me like Rondo tried to wrap up Wade's shoulders to keep him from the rim and also as a bit of an eff you for the uncalled hooking Wade threw on him earlier in the game. Wade was driving hard and moving around and Rondo's left hand slipped up to the neck. It was an intentional foul near the head area, so I don't think he deserves any particular clemency. I'm inclined to give Rondo the benefit of the doubt here, granted, but the fact that he initially grabbed the shoulders and, though he held on with his right, let go with his left hand right after it hit Wade's neck, fit the hypothesis that it was a wrap-up gone awry. Wade is a historically slippery guy. I understand others took a different interpretation.
823. NJ in DC
Posted: October 31, 2012 at 03:33 PM (#4289480)
As a Knick fan who has to deal with all that is Melo, I actually burst out laughing at James Harden's shot chart.
I didn't think the Rondo-Wade play was that bad, and I have no love lost for Rondo.
I will say, for all the good things he does, I can't imagine how frustrating it must be to watch a team whose point guard can't make an open 15-footer.
The Nick Anderson Award - This award goes to the player who missed the most free throws in a single game. Anderson was actually a decent free throw shooter. But his four missed free throw attempts in the 1995 Finals against Houston kind of stand out in my memory.
Every season that Dwight Howard plays in the NBA will end with him adding another tiny, golden Nick Anderson to his mantlepiece. Lock.
and holy ####### ####. there have been 126 games in the last 3 years where a player has attempted 10+ FTs and missed more than half of them. of those 126 games, 43 belong to dwight howard. thats...something.
dwight howard may have just locked this up on opening night. 3/14 sets a pretty high bar for the rest of the year.
I'm really excited to see Goldsberry getting a wider audience. Hoping this continues.
828. robinred
Posted: October 31, 2012 at 04:51 PM (#4289549)
the...thing he becomes on the court is just really unattractive
Tell that to Popeye Jones, Sam Cassell, and Hedo Turkoglu.
My take on Garnett is that the stuff about him that bugs people is tied inextricably to the stuff that has made him so great, and I think that is true of most people; it is just more visible with Garnett.
I've wondered if stattypes (well, ok, I) underrate midrange shorters. It's not the most efficient shot - and I love to see a distribution like Harden has - but, at least on a team level, it's not realistic for everybody to approach that ideal. Just as having guys who can hit threes opens up the floor for others - having guys who can hit long twos changes how you defend somebody.
This may be a only theoretical concern at present, mind you.
830. Jimmy P
Posted: October 31, 2012 at 05:28 PM (#4289572)
having guys who can hit long twos changes how you defend somebody
Especially when you play pick-and-roll.
TOnight's the extension deadline. Taj Gibson and the Bulls are still apart, so he may be heading to RFA after the season
831. Tripon
Posted: October 31, 2012 at 05:37 PM (#4289585)
I remember when people were blasting the bulls for wasting a pick on taj Gibson. Things have changed.
832. NJ in DC
Posted: October 31, 2012 at 05:40 PM (#4289589)
having guys who can hit long twos changes how you defend somebody
power's back, cable's back, internet's back. sixers are shooting horrendously, but they're still managing to cling to a 1 point lead halfway through the 2nd quarter. getting killed on the boards, too.
837. NJ in DC
Posted: October 31, 2012 at 07:39 PM (#4289657)
Is there anywhere I can put money on James Harden leading the league in scoring?
838. madvillain
Posted: October 31, 2012 at 07:43 PM (#4289659)
TOnight's the extension deadline. Taj Gibson and the Bulls are still apart, so he may be heading to RFA after the season
I'm so glad they sent Asik packing so this could happen. As a White Sox fan it's a constant battle of evil JR and good JR. Sign Peavy, let Gibson walk over relative peanuts. If he gets to RFA someone will make an offer he can't refuse and Chicago won't match, you can take that to the bank, literally in Gibson's case.
839. PJ Martinez
Posted: October 31, 2012 at 07:45 PM (#4289661)
The "Ray Allen as decent guy shunned by jerky teammates" version of events seems pretty off to me. Not that his teammates aren't jerky -- there are plenty of things Rondo, Garnett, and Pierce do on the court that are obviously obnoxious. But Allen's departure from the team was marked by bad blood all around -- including between Allen and Rivers, who seems like a genuinely decent guy and very much a player's coach. As far as I can tell, Allen left in large part because of that bad blood. (I believe he got *less* money to play in Miami, not more.) And while generally far more composed than his former teammates, he strikes me as a pretty tightly wound guy who might have a hard time putting up with people who don't do things just the way he likes.
I'm obviously biased, but OTOH he's always been my least favorite among the "big four," well before he left.
And I haven't even watched the Rondo/Wade play yet, but Wade broke Rondo's arm by pulling him to the ground in a playoff game, so.
But Allen's departure from the team was marked by bad blood all around -- including between Allen and Rivers, who seems like a genuinely decent guy and very much a player's coach. As far as I can tell, Allen left in large part because of that bad blood.
Let's not forget that Boston had spent a good part of last season looking to trade him, and thought they actually did at one point -- and that was before asking him to come off the bench. Through it all, Allen was a good soldier and a real pro, and since going to Miami, he's had plenty of opportunities to take shots at his ex-team and ex-teammates and hasn't. It's hard for me to look at Allen as the bad guy here (if there is one).
dispencer hawesome with 16 points, 12 rebounds, 5 blocks, 2 steals, and 2 assists coming off the bench in an 84-75 win over the nuggets. denver actually closed to within 1 in the last couple of minutes, but the sixers ended the game with a 9-1 run late in the 4th quarter.
jrue holiday had a solid night with 14, 6, and 11 assists. he was only 5/16 from the floor, though.
the wings did not have a great shooting night either. turner, richardson, wright, and young combined to go 12/41 from the field, which is kind of terrible, but they also had 5 threes, and went 9/9 from the FT line, which mellowed out the poor FG% just a little bit.
also, i wasn't a fan of denver coming into the season, so i can't really gloat over this just yet, but the last time denver scored fewer than 75 points was feb 7, 2009. that seems like an indication of...something.
848. smileyy
Posted: October 31, 2012 at 08:50 PM (#4289693)
dispencer hawesome
Can we start a fan campaign for him to officially change his name to this? 1000x better than Chad Ochocinco, as far as vanity names go.
849. PJ Martinez
Posted: October 31, 2012 at 09:10 PM (#4289704)
Through it all, Allen was a good soldier and a real pro, and since going to Miami, he's had plenty of opportunities to take shots at his ex-team and ex-teammates and hasn't. It's hard for me to look at Allen as the bad guy here (if there is one).
You and I have clearly been reading different stories. See, e.g., Brian Windhorst ("Allen has dragged up three-year-old stories and anti-Rondo rhetoric, trotting them out in prearranged media interviews") or Jackie MacMullan. Allen lost his starting job because the Celtics were better when the other guy started. That's usually how smart basketball teams are run. And he's hardly the first player to be the subject of trade rumors. I'm sure that's not pleasant and he indeed was by and large professional, but it sounds like it also helped sour his relationship with his teammates and his coach and he has spelled that all out in the press since he left.
In more interesting news, that 37/6/12/4/1 line from James Harden is pretty spiffy.
aaron brooks with the first lost tooth of the nba season.
851. Tripon
Posted: October 31, 2012 at 09:34 PM (#4289718)
PJ, I would take that with a grain of salt. We seen the Boston press corp be just a press release for the Red Sox whenever they wanted to kick somebody who just left town. Sounds like the same thing here.
852. smileyy
Posted: October 31, 2012 at 09:55 PM (#4289724)
Is there a chance that Darren Collison is actually pretty good?
853. smileyy
Posted: October 31, 2012 at 09:56 PM (#4289725)
[849] Presti is already releasing a press release about how he failed to shoot 90% from the FT line. "We knew we made the right choice."
Is there a chance that Darren Collison is actually pretty good?
he looked really good as a rookie, and then worse and worse and worse every year since.
Can we start a fan campaign for him to officially change his name to this? 1000x better than Chad Ochocinco, as far as vanity names go.
as long as i am here, i will personally guarantee that no man, woman, or bieber (of anaheim) will forget the name or face of "dispencer hawesome".
although i will admit that if i was really good, i'd also find a way to work in a reference to inspector spacetime.
855. PJ Martinez
Posted: October 31, 2012 at 11:06 PM (#4289738)
We seen the Boston press corp be just a press release for the Red Sox whenever they wanted to kick somebody who just left town. Sounds like the same thing here.
Brian Windhorst is not part of the Boston press corps. Never has been. And it's not like unnamed sources or something -- Allen went out of his way to hold press conferences and talk about Rivers and Rondo.
857. Booey
Posted: October 31, 2012 at 11:18 PM (#4289741)
Great debut by my boys tonight, especially our newbies (Mo and Marv Williams, Foye). Nice rebounding effort all around, and a snazzy 37-13 third quarter. A few substitution patterns I hope don't continue throughout the season, but I'm gonna withold any complaints until it happens in games that we don't win by 19.
i'm guessing that it's not a good sign for the lakers that, in the <5 minutes that jodie meeks and chris duhon were on the floor together tonight against the blazers, the lakers were -13.
on the other hand, kobe and tafka ron artest hit 6 combined 3s, and dwight howard went 15/19 from the FT line a night after locking up the nick anderson award.
holiday signs extension for 4/41 (+5m in incentives)
Let's see....Harden is awesome. Kind of excited about watching Houston now. Can he average, say, 24-25 per game maybe? /1st game overreaction, sort of
Stolen from Twitter:
Lin +23 in 35 minutes
DWTDD -14 in 13 minutes
Finally - and I say this as someone who believes they'll ultimately end up with 55+ wins and (at least) an appearance in the Western Conference Finals - I am really enjoying the new Laker dynasty thus far.
866. John M. Perkins
Posted: November 01, 2012 at 09:00 AM (#4289885)
Anthony Davis' first game was against Tim Duncan.
I hope they schedule Tim's last game in 2015 to be against Anthony Davis.
867. Moses Taylor
Posted: November 01, 2012 at 09:54 AM (#4289953)
aaron brooks with the first lost tooth of the nba season.
I hope to god it was a fake tooth. That came out way too easy, there didn't appear to be any blood, and he didn't miss any time. Otherwise, he's hella tough.
gibson for 4/32 (+6m in incentives)
Great deal. Gibson gave in. Before the game, he said he wouldn't sign it, then he had all these quotes afterwards about how it was too much to pass up, how happy he was in Chicago, etc.
---
Some other thoughts on that Bulls/Kings game:
-The Kings actually have more guys I like than I thought (Hayes, Brooks, Thorton), but the pieces just don't look like they fit yet.
-The Bulls were going offense/defense (actually, if I were being honest I wouldn't call the one group "offense") and the defense team was Noah/Deng/Butler/Hinrich/NateRob...and it kinda worked because of how crazy the Kings roster is.
-The Bulls got great games from Noah and Boozer, and about as good of a game as you can hope for from Rip and barely won. I don't want to overreact, but perhaps I did overrate their chances.
-The Bulls are not fun or interesting to watch at all. Ugh.
868. Moses Taylor
Posted: November 01, 2012 at 09:57 AM (#4289956)
Let's see....Harden is awesome. Kind of excited about watching Houston now. Can he average, say, 24-25 per game maybe? /1st game overreaction, sort of
I see no reason why he can't, he's going to get the shots. If he can keep the same efficiency, now that would be impressive.
---
It's kinda funny the Allen and Rondo stuff here is breaking pretty clearly along rooting lines. I'm hopelessly biased, so I've been trying to avoid commenting, especially since if I were to comment on the Rondo/Wade play from the other night I'd have to take Wade's side and I'd rather not do that.
869. Moses Taylor
Posted: November 01, 2012 at 09:58 AM (#4289961)
Gibson's quotes, btw:
"It dawned on me I didn't want to be a selfish player. I wanted to get what's fair. It's a lot of money. I can't really turn it down, especially for the security. You never know what can happen during the year. At any given moment, I could pull a groin or hurt my knee."
Gibson said Bartelstein told him he likely could earn more as a restricted free agent next summer "but you could end up playing in some hellhole."
"It probably would have been on my mind if I turned it down," Gibson said. "Now I get to compete on a solid team in a great organization."
---
I remember when people were blasting the bulls for wasting a pick on taj Gibson. Things have changed.
Indeed. I for one was very critical of that pick.
---
Looking at those other extensions signed yesterday, I like the Gibson deal even more.
Looking at those other extensions signed yesterday, I like the Gibson deal even more.
I agree with this (Really, Toronto?), but $8 million plus per year for a guy who plays 20-25 minutes per game? Feels like a lot to me - maybe I am underestimating what a guy like him should make. Are they planning on playing him more this year?
Gibson said Bartelstein told him he likely could earn more as a restricted free agent next summer "but you could end up playing in some hellhole."
And exactly what NBA city is a hellhole for a young man making millions? That is some silly right there, and I think he can decide to sign or not for any reason he wants, but hellhole? Really? Of course it wasn't the player talking about hellholes, but still.
872. Jimmy P
Posted: November 01, 2012 at 10:21 AM (#4289992)
And exactly what NBA city is a hellhole for a young man making millions? That is some silly right there, and I think he can decide to sign or not for any reason he wants, but hellhole? Really? Of course it wasn't the player talking about hellholes, but still.
Detroit. Memphis. Sacramento. Oakland. The two California ones really stand out because you add in California taxes. Plus, you know with the Bulls you're going to win, you get no guarantees from that if you leave.
873. JJ1986
Posted: November 01, 2012 at 10:22 AM (#4289993)
I don't think DeRozan is worth his contract, but isn't the only way for a team like Toronto to ever get significantly above the salary cap to extend its former first round picks? If they ever want to add an expensive player, they need the salaries to balance that out (or need to go way under which won't happen).
874. Jimmy P
Posted: November 01, 2012 at 10:34 AM (#4290007)
I don't think DeRozan is worth his contract, but isn't the only way for a team like Toronto to ever get significantly above the salary cap to extend its former first round picks? If they ever want to add an expensive player, they need the salaries to balance that out (or need to go way under which won't happen).
The problem is they bargained against themselves. Hollinger points this out every offseason, but few teams realize the power they wield in restricted free agency. The Hornets did in the offseason with Gordon, the Bulls appeared to with Gibson, but why give DeRozan that kind of cash? Do you really think that someone else was going to? Wouldn't you like to see this year first to determine if last year was real or not?
The money's not going to cripple them, and you're right, they won't get near the cap because players seem to have an aversion to Canada. I just think it shows that the front office doesn't understand the market and the CBA.
875. Moses Taylor
Posted: November 01, 2012 at 10:38 AM (#4290010)
I agree with this (Really, Toronto?), but $8 million plus per year for a guy who plays 20-25 minutes per game? Feels like a lot to me - maybe I am underestimating what a guy like him should make. Are they planning on playing him more this year?
Yes. I don't think Mohammed is going to just absorb all of Asik's minutes. I could see Boozer's minutes declining more, and with both Noah and Boozer as injury risk, I'll be surprised if Taj doesn't end up starting at least 20 games this year.
Wouldn't you like to see this year first to determine if last year was real or not?
Even though he scored more last year, he still kinda sucked. I don't think he was worth his contract last year, so in essence they're paying for hopeful future improvements.
876. Booey
Posted: November 01, 2012 at 10:56 AM (#4290024)
Afterward, [Enes Kanter] sported a black straw hat with feather, black leather jacket and blue-and-while skull-and-crossbones belt buckle.
I saw the post game interview with Kanter and loved the attire. For the sake of entertainment, I'm hoping that's how he always dresses and it had nothing to do with Halloween.
With Millsap and Jefferson in the starting lineup and Favors and Kanter coming off the bench, I'm thinking the Jazz could be a serious rebounding and double-double machine this season.
877. Jimmy P
Posted: November 01, 2012 at 10:57 AM (#4290026)
Even though he scored more last year, he still kinda sucked. I don't think he was worth his contract last year, so in essence they're paying for hopeful future improvements.
I actually meant it in the "last year sucked, i hope this isn't real" sense. I thought it was just generally accepted that he regressed last year. This is why I'm a scientist, not a writer.
878. andrewberg
Posted: November 01, 2012 at 11:08 AM (#4290037)
Derozan seems like the classic type to score points and do little else on a bad team. Yes, that type of player usually gets overpaid. I understand the idea that Toronto needs to draft well to succeed, but long term commitments to mediocre players just compounds the mistake. If they wanted to have money on the books to balance out a trade, sign him to a shorter deal, or let him walk and find someone else to take 2/22 because it isn't hard to replicate the on-court value.
Collison- he just lit up Steve Nash and Mo Williams. That result against the Jazz is about what you'd expect from Dirk-less Dallas. Hard to read too much into what they did against LA's current state of confusion. I'm sure the Lakers will repay the favor once they get it figured out.
Harden really was a boss. Not much to add. He was so assertive and never faded out of the spotlight when he was in the game. Lin looked ok, and I am sure he will be featured more as time goes on, but there was one play where you could see him trying to prove he could go left when they hedged on a pick, and he instantly turned it over. I also liked the play when he had the ball on the elbow with 3 secs on the shot clock, everyone was covered, so he rapidly backpedaled 2 dribbles to get behind the 3-pt line and maximize the value of his jacked-up shot.
Denver looked sickly. The only guy who pushed anything in the parts I watched was Andre Miller. They took a lot of contested long twos. Philadelphia gets credit for not giving them anything easy. They also get blame for not finding a plan B when the fast-break plan wasn't working against a low-TO opponent.
I'll spot you Sacremento (though I think hellhole is strong even for that cow town), but the others - especially Oakland - have very nice areas around them to live in and plenty of amenities (clubs, whatever). And you can't be serious that he took less money to avoid possibly paying a bit more in California taxes - that is just silly. Making a Florida versus New York taxes calculation is one thing, making an Illinois versus unknown locale tax rate argument.
I can see taking certainty and have no complaint with him choosing whatever, but hellhole is jsut a silly thing for anyone to have said about pretty much any NBA city. It's not like they are playing in Beruit or anything.
882. Graham
Posted: November 04, 2012 at 04:56 PM (#4292788)
I'm playing fantasy basketball for the first time this year. What are the best sites to check for projections and tips? Is Basketball Prospectus the go-to site?
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I think Garnett is best understood as a raving lunatic robot who likes to play defense and yell at people. He's not "human" per se.
I actually mostly can't argue with this. I'm a Celtics fan, but I find Paul Pierce's offensive game to be almost entirely unwatchable and Garnett's bullying to be pretty loathsome. I've also never liked Jason Terry's whole deal. But I can't get mad at Rondo, and I find Doc to be extremely likable, and I'm bizarrely attached to Jeff Green, and I'm really excited about this new group of players. In fact I'm probably more excited about this team than any since the championship year.
And got more money.
What about Rondo's clothesline of Wade? Just another classy move
To be fair, Teflon Dwyane is also kind of an ####### based on watching games and not knowing him.
Yeah, this is something I meant to say as well. Whatever Garnett's fundamental human qualities, the...thing he becomes on the court is just really unattractive.
And Rondo simply comes off as a jerk of the highest order.
It doesn't help that everything I've read about Allen makes him seem like a genuinely interesting, worldly, admirable figure. Set him against Rajon Rondo and it's really easy to pick a favorite.
Just another subjective opinion
Great article.
Hollins was the target of my favorite Basketball quote, by Andrew Toney, in response to how Maurice Cheeks and Lionel Hollins helped him as a rookie: "Mo, he tells me what it is; Trane, he tells me what it be".
He couldn't have had 2 better teachers.
See now this part seems totally obvious to me. Their teammate just left to sign with the team that knocked them out of the playoffs. Of course they're going to hold it against him. Doesn't mean they wouldn't do it themselves, doesn't mean they begrudge the guy getting a deal he liked better, it's just simple: you were one of us, now you're one of them, therefore we're not cool. That seems perfectly logical to me. They're competitive people.
The Reggie Miller 30-for-30 talked about the Knicks having a similar attitude, but to a more thuggish extent. There was the "no helping an opposing player up", which seems ok but will lead to chippy games, and the "knock a guy to the floor if he drives the lane", which isn't ok and will lead to fights and awful basketball. I do like the "no shots after the whistle" thing the C's did (still do?) as a meaningless non-violent show of team seriousness.
So, to get brief, my overall take is I might not like the Celtics team attitude, but I can appreciate it as their way of winning, because I'd rather see a team that cares than a team that doesn't.
Isn't some of that payback for Wade's armbar of Rondo last year?
Edit: Echoing [808] I can understand Garnett being of a mindset where he can't be friends with Ray Allen right now. If that extends until after one or the other retires, then you're really being a *($#.
The Knicks do this. I hate it and think it looks stupid. On the other hand, I, as a lifelong Knick fan *sobs uncontrollably* LOVED not shaking hands, helping opposing players up, or allowing anyone to drive the lane.
No, pretty sure clotheslining a guy in basketball is pretty cheap. And, I bet that's a pretty universal opinion.
The Celtics "Ubuntu" us-against-the-world thing works well for a little while, until guys start getting traded, and its not an "us" anymore
Yeah. The thing that makes it really funny is Allen played longer on non-Celtics teams in his career than Celtics. In fact, didn't he play on two teams each longer than the Celtics? It's not like he was drafted by them
It probably looks pretty stupid if you're not a title contender, like the C's were when they started doing it.
No, I think it just generally looks stupid.
EDIT:Count me among the people who prefer bad sportsmanship to the lack of interest in winning that at times seems to pop up in the NBA.
Agree with the bolded.
Same. I'd take a jerk who would do anything to win like Garnett over a nice but indifferent player like Vinsanity any day of the week.
(and I'm talking only about attitudes. Obviously there's a country mile between their level of performance as well)
No, I enjoy ugly basketball and rivlaries and mutual hatred and all that stuff. I just think the post play blocked shot thing is ridiculous because a.) it has no effect on the score and b.) (this is the main reason) you would see guys literally run across the lane to try and block a shot (that wouldnt't count) and I just thought it actually looked ridiculous, as in laughable, especially when guys missed.
I also enjoy post whistle shots / block attempts...
RDF
I really didn't read that as a clothesline. It looked to me like Rondo tried to wrap up Wade's shoulders to keep him from the rim and also as a bit of an eff you for the uncalled hooking Wade threw on him earlier in the game. Wade was driving hard and moving around and Rondo's left hand slipped up to the neck. It was an intentional foul near the head area, so I don't think he deserves any particular clemency. I'm inclined to give Rondo the benefit of the doubt here, granted, but the fact that he initially grabbed the shoulders and, though he held on with his right, let go with his left hand right after it hit Wade's neck, fit the hypothesis that it was a wrap-up gone awry. Wade is a historically slippery guy. I understand others took a different interpretation.
I will say, for all the good things he does, I can't imagine how frustrating it must be to watch a team whose point guard can't make an open 15-footer.
That's pretty incredible, NJ.
dwight howard may have just locked this up on opening night. 3/14 sets a pretty high bar for the rest of the year.
Tell that to Popeye Jones, Sam Cassell, and Hedo Turkoglu.
My take on Garnett is that the stuff about him that bugs people is tied inextricably to the stuff that has made him so great, and I think that is true of most people; it is just more visible with Garnett.
This may be a only theoretical concern at present, mind you.
Especially when you play pick-and-roll.
TOnight's the extension deadline. Taj Gibson and the Bulls are still apart, so he may be heading to RFA after the season
Especially when you play pick-and-roll.
Yep:
Hollinger had the best reaction:
power's back, cable's back, internet's back. sixers are shooting horrendously, but they're still managing to cling to a 1 point lead halfway through the 2nd quarter. getting killed on the boards, too.
I'm so glad they sent Asik packing so this could happen. As a White Sox fan it's a constant battle of evil JR and good JR. Sign Peavy, let Gibson walk over relative peanuts. If he gets to RFA someone will make an offer he can't refuse and Chicago won't match, you can take that to the bank, literally in Gibson's case.
I'm obviously biased, but OTOH he's always been my least favorite among the "big four," well before he left.
And I haven't even watched the Rondo/Wade play yet, but Wade broke Rondo's arm by pulling him to the ground in a playoff game, so.
They are leading at half though, though looking at the lines you wonder how the hell they're doing it.
Meanwhile, Jeremy Lin seem to be doing alright.
jrue holiday had a solid night with 14, 6, and 11 assists. he was only 5/16 from the floor, though.
the wings did not have a great shooting night either. turner, richardson, wright, and young combined to go 12/41 from the field, which is kind of terrible, but they also had 5 threes, and went 9/9 from the FT line, which mellowed out the poor FG% just a little bit.
also, i wasn't a fan of denver coming into the season, so i can't really gloat over this just yet, but the last time denver scored fewer than 75 points was feb 7, 2009. that seems like an indication of...something.
Can we start a fan campaign for him to officially change his name to this? 1000x better than Chad Ochocinco, as far as vanity names go.
You and I have clearly been reading different stories. See, e.g., Brian Windhorst ("Allen has dragged up three-year-old stories and anti-Rondo rhetoric, trotting them out in prearranged media interviews") or Jackie MacMullan. Allen lost his starting job because the Celtics were better when the other guy started. That's usually how smart basketball teams are run. And he's hardly the first player to be the subject of trade rumors. I'm sure that's not pleasant and he indeed was by and large professional, but it sounds like it also helped sour his relationship with his teammates and his coach and he has spelled that all out in the press since he left.
In more interesting news, that 37/6/12/4/1 line from James Harden is pretty spiffy.
although i will admit that if i was really good, i'd also find a way to work in a reference to inspector spacetime.
Brian Windhorst is not part of the Boston press corps. Never has been. And it's not like unnamed sources or something -- Allen went out of his way to hold press conferences and talk about Rivers and Rondo.
How did Anthony Davis look tonight?
On an 82-0 pace! ;-)
nash hurt - lower leg contusion
on the other hand, kobe and tafka ron artest hit 6 combined 3s, and dwight howard went 15/19 from the FT line a night after locking up the nick anderson award. first we show up, then we see what happens.
Tribjazz pic
Looks like fat Chris Tucker and Wooderson
Stolen from Twitter:
Lin +23 in 35 minutes
DWTDD -14 in 13 minutes
Finally - and I say this as someone who believes they'll ultimately end up with 55+ wins and (at least) an appearance in the Western Conference Finals - I am really enjoying the new Laker dynasty thus far.
I hope they schedule Tim's last game in 2015 to be against Anthony Davis.
I hope to god it was a fake tooth. That came out way too easy, there didn't appear to be any blood, and he didn't miss any time. Otherwise, he's hella tough.
gibson for 4/32 (+6m in incentives)
Great deal. Gibson gave in. Before the game, he said he wouldn't sign it, then he had all these quotes afterwards about how it was too much to pass up, how happy he was in Chicago, etc.
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Some other thoughts on that Bulls/Kings game:
-The Kings actually have more guys I like than I thought (Hayes, Brooks, Thorton), but the pieces just don't look like they fit yet.
-The Bulls were going offense/defense (actually, if I were being honest I wouldn't call the one group "offense") and the defense team was Noah/Deng/Butler/Hinrich/NateRob...and it kinda worked because of how crazy the Kings roster is.
-The Bulls got great games from Noah and Boozer, and about as good of a game as you can hope for from Rip and barely won. I don't want to overreact, but perhaps I did overrate their chances.
-The Bulls are not fun or interesting to watch at all. Ugh.
I see no reason why he can't, he's going to get the shots. If he can keep the same efficiency, now that would be impressive.
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It's kinda funny the Allen and Rondo stuff here is breaking pretty clearly along rooting lines. I'm hopelessly biased, so I've been trying to avoid commenting, especially since if I were to comment on the Rondo/Wade play from the other night I'd have to take Wade's side and I'd rather not do that.
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I remember when people were blasting the bulls for wasting a pick on taj Gibson. Things have changed.
Indeed. I for one was very critical of that pick.
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Looking at those other extensions signed yesterday, I like the Gibson deal even more.
I agree with this (Really, Toronto?), but $8 million plus per year for a guy who plays 20-25 minutes per game? Feels like a lot to me - maybe I am underestimating what a guy like him should make. Are they planning on playing him more this year?
And exactly what NBA city is a hellhole for a young man making millions? That is some silly right there, and I think he can decide to sign or not for any reason he wants, but hellhole? Really? Of course it wasn't the player talking about hellholes, but still.
Detroit. Memphis. Sacramento. Oakland. The two California ones really stand out because you add in California taxes. Plus, you know with the Bulls you're going to win, you get no guarantees from that if you leave.
The problem is they bargained against themselves. Hollinger points this out every offseason, but few teams realize the power they wield in restricted free agency. The Hornets did in the offseason with Gordon, the Bulls appeared to with Gibson, but why give DeRozan that kind of cash? Do you really think that someone else was going to? Wouldn't you like to see this year first to determine if last year was real or not?
The money's not going to cripple them, and you're right, they won't get near the cap because players seem to have an aversion to Canada. I just think it shows that the front office doesn't understand the market and the CBA.
Yes. I don't think Mohammed is going to just absorb all of Asik's minutes. I could see Boozer's minutes declining more, and with both Noah and Boozer as injury risk, I'll be surprised if Taj doesn't end up starting at least 20 games this year.
Wouldn't you like to see this year first to determine if last year was real or not?
Even though he scored more last year, he still kinda sucked. I don't think he was worth his contract last year, so in essence they're paying for hopeful future improvements.
I saw the post game interview with Kanter and loved the attire. For the sake of entertainment, I'm hoping that's how he always dresses and it had nothing to do with Halloween.
With Millsap and Jefferson in the starting lineup and Favors and Kanter coming off the bench, I'm thinking the Jazz could be a serious rebounding and double-double machine this season.
I actually meant it in the "last year sucked, i hope this isn't real" sense. I thought it was just generally accepted that he regressed last year. This is why I'm a scientist, not a writer.
Collison- he just lit up Steve Nash and Mo Williams. That result against the Jazz is about what you'd expect from Dirk-less Dallas. Hard to read too much into what they did against LA's current state of confusion. I'm sure the Lakers will repay the favor once they get it figured out.
Harden really was a boss. Not much to add. He was so assertive and never faded out of the spotlight when he was in the game. Lin looked ok, and I am sure he will be featured more as time goes on, but there was one play where you could see him trying to prove he could go left when they hedged on a pick, and he instantly turned it over. I also liked the play when he had the ball on the elbow with 3 secs on the shot clock, everyone was covered, so he rapidly backpedaled 2 dribbles to get behind the 3-pt line and maximize the value of his jacked-up shot.
Denver looked sickly. The only guy who pushed anything in the parts I watched was Andre Miller. They took a lot of contested long twos. Philadelphia gets credit for not giving them anything easy. They also get blame for not finding a plan B when the fast-break plan wasn't working against a low-TO opponent.
I'll spot you Sacremento (though I think hellhole is strong even for that cow town), but the others - especially Oakland - have very nice areas around them to live in and plenty of amenities (clubs, whatever). And you can't be serious that he took less money to avoid possibly paying a bit more in California taxes - that is just silly. Making a Florida versus New York taxes calculation is one thing, making an Illinois versus unknown locale tax rate argument.
I can see taking certainty and have no complaint with him choosing whatever, but hellhole is jsut a silly thing for anyone to have said about pretty much any NBA city. It's not like they are playing in Beruit or anything.
Here's the link.
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