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That is true enough, but I think it underestimates the extent to which it reflects -- or perhaps reinforces -- the very point of the (alleged) collusion. The whole argument Paul would be making is that the league is acting improperly, and to his detriment, to keep him in New Orleans and thus coerce him into staying there instead of leaving as a potential FA on any other team could so. If the league comes back and tells the court he hasn't been harmed b/c he can just sign a max contract in New Orleans, he'd respond by saying that this just gives them the benefit of their collusion -- it achieves the goal the league was seeking all along.
That's why I brought up the Howard hypothetical. If the league colluded with all of Orlando's potential trading partners to get them to stand down and not trade with Orlando to give Howard a way out, and he challenged this as a violation of the CBA's anti-collusion principle, the league couldn't come back and say, "But he hasn't been harmed! He can just sign a max contract in Orlando." I say that because -- while it is true that the CBA envisions the gap between what a FA can get resigning with his current club (more) and a new club (less) -- it also balances that by giving the current club a strong incentive to deal (and making it explicit that this trading market must be free of league interference) the player rather than take a chance of losing him. So it's not enough to say that the player isn't hurt because of the max contract being available; he's hurt if the trade market that gives him options isn't available, and which can allow him to get not just the max contract, but to exploit the team's incentives to get it in a place he might wish to play.
Equity. Equity says that if there has been a violation, you attempt to put the injured party back in the place he would have been absent the violation. If the arbitrator or court thinks that there has been a violation, and that Chris Paul would have been traded to the Lakers or Clippers absent that violation, and thus been in a position not only to get the max contract, but to get it somewhere other than New Orleans, he wins.
All that said, again ... emphasize that showing collusion here would be a dicey proposition. But IF he can, I have very little doubt he can get himself out of New Orleans and have one of the trades implemented (or at least have Demps put back in charge, which is basically the same thing) as the remedy.
---
No offense, but that's a bunch of ####. Lopez and five late 1st round picks? No way I do that deal if I'm Orlando.
But the team around him still isn't good enough, so obviously this issue is not going to go away. NO started off like 9-1 last year and Paul was "happy." We all know where that situation is now.
And all through the league, many players were watching--probably even Jeff Teague!
The cap space was cleared on the spreasheet with care
In hopes that a franchise player soon would be there
The fanboys were glued to their laptops and phones
While rumors of SuperTeams spread on their own
And me in my sweatpants and my GF in her dress
Our hearts all aflame hoping to hear Stern say YES!
Then all on the net I saw so much chatter
That I jumped on my keyboard to see what was the matter
Away to the websites I clicked like a flash
I searched NBA pages and hoped not to crash
(Gotta grade some more finals--can't finish yet. Anyone wants to make changes, complain to the site admins, or pick it up from there, be my guest--I am just being a faciliator here).
I don't think it's a gimme that they will be late first rounders. I don't really see any reason to believe that Houston will be particularly good this year and... I mean, things happen. Players decline and get injured. It's not 100% that Williams is going to re-sign. If something happens and the Nets become a lottery team, you've hit the motherlode there. Five 1st rounders and a legit if flawed center is certainly a great return if you don't think you're keeping Howard past this year.
I admit to being biased, I would love to see Deron (one of my favorite players) and D12 play together, would be a very fun and interesting foundation for a team.
Crawford and NYK would seem to be a natural fit.
In an alternate timeline where the Lakers haven't already given away Odom for nothing, shouldn't the Lakers make a Gasol/Bynum trade for Howard (leaving Odom at PF and taking back Turk's bad contract)? Obviously they were trying to get Paul with one of them, but...
I admit to being biased, I would love to see Deron (one of my favorite players) and D12 play together, would be a very fun and interesting foundation for a team.
I agree. I've said it before, but I want him to play with a top PG, be it Paul (not in LA), DWill or Rose.
Crawford and NYK would seem to be a natural fit.
Yes, and it'd be great for them to get him so cheaply.
And if I were GarPax Reinsdorf, I'd still seriously considering trying to trade for him without the guarantee he'll resign. I think it would make the Bulls a better bet to beat Miami (even if by losing Deng, they're losing their best LeBron defender) this year. And I think once he's here, he's more likely to resign because 1. he'll get more money and 2. playing here and winning would be a damn good reason for him to want to stay. And if he shuns the extra $26mil and goes somewhere else, the Bulls aren't starting from scratch and could still be a contender in short order.
It's really hard for me to read Lakers news right now. I feel like we got screwed with our pants on.
It's not about winning as priority #1 for Dwight, it's about the glamor of NYC or LA or taking over the mantle from Dirk in Dallas, or whatever. If winning was priority #1, he'd demand a trade to chicago ASAP. It's really the perfect fit.
And Chicago would be foolish to throw in Deng as well. The deal would be some combo of Noah, Gibson, Asik, the Charlotte pick and filler.
Bulls also have option/partial guarantees on the last year of the 3 year deals they gave Brewer, Korver and Watson last year. I think that's a smart move, for a number of reasons.
Good. The Knicks don't deserve players signing to play there cheaply. :)
I really like what the Bulls FO is doing with all these team options. It is setting them up to be creative and flexible should any trades arise. Your average Internet fan boy thinks it's being cheap. It's being smart.
The thought of that tax bill just gave Jerry an aneurysm.
The Chairman is getting old, perhaps he'd like one more 3 peat before he kicks it.
I don't think the Sox are winning the WS again in his lifetime, much less 3 more.
Obviously not Hornets' staff.
Gordon, Kaman, Aminu and the T'Wolves pick. Good deal for both teams, I think.
They get to keep Bledsoe, so they now have 4 PGs on the roster. They're the new T'Wolves.
EDIT: Clips get 2 2nd round picks also.
I would think both Billups and Williams could play the 2 with Paul. I think I could play the 2 with Paul.
I was joking last night that the future of Chris Paul's knees was dependent on whether he ended up with the Lakers or the Clippers. I hope I was wrong. The Clips, if healthy, are going to be a joy to watch.
A single text? More like 300 hundred texts.
Agreed, in spite of VDN. The sooner they fire him and get a real coach, the better.
i think he has to wait 6 months to get his full bird rights, so i doubt he signed anything.
If I'm the Lakers, I'm furious. Chris Paul's going to be living in their city, playing in their building, and chipping away at their brand.
At the time of the first trade agreement, there were rumors that he agreed to pick up his option for the 12/13 season to stay with the Clips; I'd have to assume this was the case again for the Clips to put more in the deal.
East
-MIA
-CHI
-BOS
-NYK
-ORL
-ATL
-IND
-PHI
West
-OKC
-LAL
-SAS
-MEM
-DAL
-DEN
-POR
-LAC
Well, for the first time, there will be a real rivalry between the teams.
This whole thing is a good object lesson for both Laker fanboys and Lakerhaters, on a number of levels. The Lakers have had a combination of bad luck and bad management that landed them in the spot they are in. The Clippers had some of both to land them here.
I was going to write a couple of days ago that Howard would be next on Dr. Simmons' couch.
No quibbles with the other stuff but I just don't see DAL as dangerous, in any real sense, this year. They lost the backbone of their defense and Dirk and Nash are a year older.
EDIT: Ah, I see, he was solid through December and then everything fell apart. If Gordon can develop and they hit it big with the unprotected pick they should be fine.
Or Ariza and Jack. While not as bad as the Okafor deal, collectively they cost way too much for the type of team NOH will have.
The Hornets haul looks alright, and things are a bit different now with the salary floor, but the refusal to force interested teams to take bad contracts for Paul makes zero sense to me. If I were a "co-owner" of that team, I would not be pleased. And if I could stop it, I would. You simply can't unload that type of player without dumping some dead money along the way.
Steve Nash still plays for the Mavs?
Crap, I forgot about this. :(
Trade seems fine. I'm pretty sick of all this discussion and legal imbroglios and more than ready to actually watch some hoops.
And the Jazz get it unless it's one of the first seven picks, IIRC.
Oh, completely understood. I can't believe Demps hasn't resigned yet. But (and baby, it's a big one), Stern wound up pulling a much better deal for the Hornets. I wonder how Simmons will respond to this? I assume it'll just fit into the Mr. McMahon motif: to be a credible heel, you have to deliver on your promises.
A combination of gloating and mild rebukes. Will talk about Gordon some. Won't say anything about Cuban. Will say it marks a turning point for both Lakers and Clippers franchises.
and again, they paid a price to get minnesota's pick. that pick wasn't added on to LA's previous offer, it was added in place of eric bledsoe, and it cost NO (2) second round picks in addition.
i mean, maybe i'm wrong; maybe my disdain for tanking is clouding my judgment, but i'd have taken the 3 top 50 players and gone to war.
I am skeptical about the return they get flipping Kaman, and about the value of Aminu, but we'll see. Odom makes less than Kaman and is guaranteed only 2.5 M in 12/13. But the pick + Gordon puts the Clippers deal over the top for both optics and basketball reasons.
Key to remember again that Stern screwed Houston to do this. Some may say that doesn't matter. I think it does.
And JVG has no idea what a "regular owner" would have done or said or what directives would have been given.
As to Moses' question about cost-cutting, the Vujacic TPE expires tomorrow. They have a year to use Odom's. They still need a guard and a backup 5.
And yes, as I said earlier, Bynum + Gasol for Howard might have worked with Odom here. His face-up game, handle and passing would have complemented Howard well.
Buss's challenge is to turn the Odom deal into a +.
No, he has no idea what the non-existent owner of the New Orleans Hornets would have:
a) Told Demps to get for Paul
b) Said about the LAL offer
One of Simmons' "theories" is that the Hornets have an owner-in-waiting who ran this behind the scenes.
Clippers made out well too because they got Paul. The only thing I would be concerned about him is that he was a different player in the regular season last year when wore a balky knee brace as opposed to in the playoffs when he played without one. It was night and day in terms of his quickness and activity level. Just guessing but if it turns out that playing without a knee brace compromises his long-term durability, then that'd be worrisome.
If JVG just meant in general, sure--I think most people know that.
Paul / Payton
Billups / Hawkins
Butler / Schrempf
Griffin / Kemp
Jordan / Perkins
6th man
Williams / McMillan?/Askew?
Probably not as deep as those sonics, but you have to be pretty excited as a clippers fan. Especially at the top, I think the pairing of Paul and Griffin is stronger than Payton and Kemp. I'm also pretty high on DeAndre Jordan.
Did they get better? If they did, I missed it.
Not enough to make the playoffs maybe but they upgraded their coach, got a point guard who is a superb passer and above average defender and better than Ridnour or Flynn and drafted a pretty talented player with the no.2 pick. I think the combination of a good coach and infusion of young talent climbs them out of bottom five status in the league. They still have an unbalanced roster but it wouldn't surprise me if their first round pick comes in at the 8-11 range.
With the Clippers it's going to be interesting to see how Billups plays as a full-time 2. He really wasn't much of a passer so he's not going to have to change his style much but in matching up against bigger 2s for longer stretches, he's going to lose the size and strength advantage he enjoyed over most of his point guard counterparts. It's not a stretch to think he might be the worst defensive 2 in the league next season. That said, just seeing a foursome of Paul, Griffin, Billups and Butler out there, that's an impressive collection of shotmakers and high basketball IQ guys.
In this video of a high school basketball game,, something called a double alley-oop dunk transpired. They should definitely start working on this as much as all the other basketball stuff.
Looks like I might be a little late to the draft. So as long as I pre-set my auction values, it will auto-draft for me? Does that sound right?
I don't necessarily disagree, but I'm not convinced they're less dangerous than the Lakers, Spurs, or Grizzlies. In fact, I still say they're better than the Lakers at this moment. I'm not sure what I think about the Spurs, but I probably wouldn't pick the Spurs over the Mavs in a series right now.
I just had a really long staff meeting and I may have missed some of the moves that were made, but right now I see three tiers in the West. Tier 1 is OKC by itself. Tier 2 is an LAL, MEM, LAC, SAS mash-up. Tier 3 is DAL, POR, DEN. I was surprised at how high I ranked LAC but I think they have the shooters and athletes to make perfect use of Paul's talents. I assumed LAL would be higher but beyond their Top 3 I don't think much of any of their guys and Bynum is an injury worry and Kobe's got a ton of mileage. I don't necessarily see a ton of separation between the tiers though.
As for the Wolves, it is funny to hear Adelman's comments. He is clearly trying to break down the young roster and rebuild it in his own way. They have been such a mess for the last few years that he has said that they are the worst defense he has ever seen and that they petitioned the league to get a point for each turnover because nobody takes care of the ball. They will probably start slow- tons of youth in the lineup and a new system- but I think there will be steady improvement and they will be pretty competitive toward the end of the season.
I think this is silly. The West ain't what it used to be. The Clippers might not be contenders, but a team that starts Paul, Billups, Butler, Griffin, and Jordan is going to make the playoffs if everyone stays reasonably healthy.
sixers gonna win
Yep, 34 or so times out of 66.
Apparently Shawne Williams has decided to sign with the Nets. Really hope Shumpert turns out to be as good as his summer workout/rap videos because he will be needed.
I agree that defense could be a problem, but is there evidence that Paul gambles a lot? Subjectively, I don't feel that way at all, but am open to other suggestions.
there's a short, condensed training camp, but the sixers brought back their top 8 scorers from last season (really their top 12, but only the top 8 really matter), and they were running last season's sets on the first day of training camp. that continuity should give them a huge leg up on everyone else, at least to start the season.
then, the condensed schedule should favor them in 2 ways. 1st, of the top 8 scorers they return from last season (hawes, brand, iguodala, meeks, holiday, young, turner, williams), 6 are younger than 25. the young legs should keep them relatively fresh on those 5 games in 6 nights stretches that are gonna pop up.
but 2nd, they're also very deep. their top 8 returning players all figure to see their minutes from last season go through to this one(though collins has said he wants to give young and hawes more run). plus, beyond them, you've got vucevic, speights, brackins, allen, and i guess nocioni.
but if you look at the actual composition of the roster, the sixers have 4 players in the top of their rotation (iguodala, turner, holiday, and williams) who can function as a primary ballhandler. assuming we see a healthy iguodala, the ability for the team to split their workload on offense should allow for a much more even wear on the team throughout the season.
oh, and also, related to the schedule, the season starts with a 5 game west coast road trip, but after that, the furthest they go out that way is san antonio.
i really think this a year that the sixers can ascend to the top of the league.
I guess. I'm just not sold on Gordon being a franchise building block. I think he's a good player, and he may even be an All-Star, but he's a #3 on a contender. He's a better Kevin Martin, and I'm not a huge Kevin Martin guy (as I've made clear here).
I think the Hornets should be trying to flip all those guys, Aminu, Kaman, and Gordon for a stud. Don't know if it'd be possible, but you never know.
I also think that the T-Wolves pick will be high because while Adelman's good and their offense will improve, their defense is garbage. And, while their offense will be better, Beasley will be chuckin' so much that it'll still hold them back. The sooner they get rid of him, the better their team will be.
Absolutely, but like you said, they're not contenders. The Lakers showed last year what happens when you take even supreme talent and surround it with crap, and the Clips are a lesser version of that right now: good enough to show, but not good enough to place.
This is where the Donald Sterling factor becomes important. Jordan's going to be making $10 million x 4 years, Mo Williams $8.5 million for the next two, Griffin $5.2, $7.2, and $9.4 million the next three, Paul $16.4 and $17.8 the next two, Butler $8 million for 3 years... they've gotten very expensive very quickly. They're at ~$64 million for this year -- THAT'S RIGHT, THE CLIPPERS ARE OVER THE SALARY CAP! for the first time that I'm aware of, and will be for at least the next two seasons even if this team does not add anymore talent.
They're much (much) better than they were before, but they're not better than OKC, Dallas, or even Memphis. They'll need to spend money and pay the new tax, be really smart, and navigate without lottery picks as leverage. They've never had to do that before, and organizational history tells us that they've never been particular smart for any extended length of time. Between the Clippers' history and Sterling's idiocy (and the fact that this deal only happened because my favorite team got boned) it's hard for me to get too optimistic about this.
(I can't wait to see them, though. I do have access to some Clipper games in luxury box seats like in the old days, so I'll be able to give game reports from the comfort of the 1%.)
When you have the opportunity to get a guy of Paul's skill, you take it. In the NBA, quality is usually better than quantity.
They don't have to be better than last year's LAL team (which was really good, DAL exit aside). Has any WC team made more improvements than the LAC have? I think DAL, LAL, SAS and DEN off the top of my head are demonstrably weaker due to some combination of age/moves. I know I'm probably alone on this but I have a very difficult time seeing DAL as a top 4 seed and I think LAL are a Bynum injury away from a similar fate (because I think their roster beyond the Big 3 is just absolutely terrible).
Dallas is weaker. Haywood's the only center on the roster. He's not the defender Chandler is. They'll struggle against the Lakers, and maybe against the Clips. Blake's a handful, Dirk can't cover him and I don't think Haywood can keep up. OKC has to realize their time is right now. It's time to make small tweaks to the roster to get a bit more offense around Durant and Westbrook, and they need to decide if Brooks is the coach to get them there.
No. They're by far the most improved team in the league.
I thought that was true of Dallas before they got Odom. Odom vaults them back to the top tier of the West. I don't see the Lakers as being a top-tier team in the West.
Agreed. The best players in the NBA are exponentially more important and valuable than your run of the mill rotation guy - not roughly linear, as it is in baseball.
I think there's a chance - not one I'd bet on, but enough of one that it wouldn't shock me - that the Clippers win 40-45 (translates to 50-55, roughly) games and get a top four seed. It's possible that Chris Paul will just make everyone else that much better.
Man, you'd have to like OKC to come out of the West right now, right? I am bearish on Memphis - I know they finished strong and looked great in the playoffs, but I don't see them as real contenders for the West. They'll probably be good, but I just see them as something closer to last year's Knuggets, almost - deep and good, but without the superstar(s) (sorry Z-Bo) that you typically see on teams that win it all.
Put it this way - I'd pick the Clippers to make the Finals before I picked the Grizzlies, and I don't think the Clippers will sniff the Finals either.
With the Paul trade having gone through and Howard ostensibly staying put, is it time to start up the predictions?
I really, really like Memphis.
Western Conference
1. Oklahoma City
2. Memphis
3. Dallas
4. San Antonio
5. Denver
6. Clippers
7. Portland
8. Lakers
9. Houston
10. Utah
11. Golden State
12. Phoenix
13. Sacramento
14. New Orleans
15. Minnesota
Eastern Conference
1. Chicago
2. Miami
3. Boston
4. Orlando
5. New York
6. Philadelphia
7. Atlanta
8. Milwaukee
9. Indiana
10. Detroit
11. New Jersey
12. Washington
13. Charlotte
14. Toronto
15. Cleveland
Round 1
OKC over LAL | MEM over POR
DAL over LAC | SAS over DEN
CHI over MIL | MIA over ATL
BOS over NY | NY over ORL
Conference Semis
OKC over SAS | MEM over DAL
CHI over BOS | MIA over NY
Conference Finals
OKC over MEM | MIA over CHI
Finals
MIA over OKC
I say yes. And I'm already thinking of mine. But won't post until we flip pages.
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