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Friday, December 02, 2011

NBA THREAD DECEMBER: POST-LOCKOUT

With the lockout over, I estimate that there may be more than 10-12 Primates who want to talk about the NBA, and with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: fractional reserve banking, and Tim Tebow.

robinred Posted: December 02, 2011 at 12:26 AM | 3254 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: general

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   1301. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: December 16, 2011 at 03:39 PM (#4017673)
I like that everyone thinks OKC is coming out of the West but almost no one thinks they're going to win the title.
   1302. Bitter Mouse Posted: December 16, 2011 at 04:19 PM (#4017700)
West
1. OKC
2. MEM
3. SAS
4. DAL
5. LAC
6. LAL
7. DEN
8. POR

9. HOU
10. GS
11. MIN
12. PHO
13. SAC
14. UTA
15. NO

East
1. CHI
2. MIA
3. NYK
4. BOS
5. ATL
6. IND
7. PHI
8. ORL

9. NJ
10. MIL
11. WAS
12. DET
13. CHA
14. TOR
15. CLE

West
1. OKC v 8. POR: OKC
2. MEM v 7. DEN: MEM
3. SAS v 6. LAL: LAL
4. DAL v 5. LAC: LAC

OKC v LAC: OKC
MEM v LAL: MEM

OKC v MEM: OKC

East
1. CHI v 8. ORL: CHI
2. MIA v 7. PHI: PHI
3. NYK v 6. IND: NYK
4. BOS v 5. ATL: ATL

CHI v ATL: CHI
PHI v NYK: NYK

CHI v NYK: CHI

Finals
OKC v CHI: OKC

MVP- LeBron
COY- Rick Adelman
6th Man- Turner
DPOY- Howard
ROY- Ricky!
   1303. JJ1986 Posted: December 16, 2011 at 04:35 PM (#4017713)
Is Kris Humphries not getting any news because everyone is certain he'll end up back with the Nets? I think he'd be a nice fit in either Denver or Sacramento
   1304. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: December 16, 2011 at 04:41 PM (#4017716)
Is Kris Humphries not getting any news because everyone is certain he'll end up back with the Nets? I think he'd be a nice fit in either Denver or Sacramento

Or NY, but I assume/think he's out of our price range.
   1305. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: December 16, 2011 at 04:49 PM (#4017723)
I'd like to point out that people predicting the Clippers to make the playoffs seem to be forgetting that Vinny Del Negro is the head coach.

But you put them in the playoffs, too. And to echo the first response to this, he made the playoffs with the Bulls *twice* with much less talent than the Clips have now.

I don't see how people think that Memphis is going to improve from last year.

They had their ideal starting 5 for like 5 games last year - Conley/Allen/Gay/Z-Bo/Gasol. Yes, there's definitely blow-up potential, but I think they may have figured something out down there.

I think Nash gets traded to NYK

For what? I think it's more likely he signs there in the offseason for the MLE.

---

Meanwhile you've got some idiots online complaining about the Bulls probably keeping John Lucas III and Scalabrine as the last guys on the roster. Really? The 12th and 13th guys are meaningless. You just want good lock room guys that practice hard. If you are in a situation where the 12th and 13th men are actually seeing meaningful minutes your roster is so decimated by injuries it wouldn't matter who they are, you're screwed anyways.

I agree with both sides. It's just that Scal and Lucas are *so* bad. Last year Thibs used them (remember Lucas even cost the Bulls a win, and you can tie Scal's involvement in a couple other losses), and odds are they'll be used again because of the schedule and teams can dress 13 players this year. Part of me think there are better end of the bench options out there - neither guy belongs anywhere near an NBA roster, even if they are good practice players. But if that's my biggest complaint, I really don't have a complaint.
   1306. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: December 16, 2011 at 04:51 PM (#4017727)
2. MIA v 7. PHI: PHI

First someone put them at a 4 seed, and now this. Steagles' enthusiasm is spreading like rabies. BTW, Steags, can we get some official predictions from you?
   1307. JJ1986 Posted: December 16, 2011 at 05:12 PM (#4017741)
East
1. Miami
2. New York
3. Chicago
4. Atlanta
5. Boston
6. New Jersey
7. Philadelphia
8. Washington

9. Orlando
10. Indiana
11. Toronto
12. Milwaukee
13. Charlotte
14. Detroit
15. Cleveland

Round 1: Miami, New York, Boston, Chicago
Round 2: Chicago, Miami
Conference Finals: Miami

West
1. Oklahoma City
2. Clippers
3. Spurs
4. Lakers
5. Mavericks
6. Grizzlies
7. Portland
8. Denver

9. Phoenix
10. Houston
11. Golden State
12. Minnesota
13. Utah
14. Sacramento
15. New Orleans

Round 1: Thunder, Clippers, Grizzlies, Lakers
Round 2: Lakers, Grizzlies
Conference Finals: Grizzlies

Finals: Heat over Grizzlies

MVP: Chris Paul
COY: Pat Riley
ROY: Norris Cole
   1308. Bitter Mouse Posted: December 16, 2011 at 05:16 PM (#4017753)
2. MIA v 7. PHI: PHI

First someone put them at a 4 seed, and now this. Steagles' enthusiasm is spreading like rabies. BTW, Steags, can we get some official predictions from you?


For the record I don't actually expect this to happen, but I wanted one WTF prediction and I went with STEAGLES crazy talk. Hey, an injury and I look like - well genius is way too strong - less dumb. If I had money on it I would have MIA going to Conf finals and losing to Chicago.
   1309. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: December 16, 2011 at 05:34 PM (#4017773)
COY: Pat Riley

This wouldn't surprise me this year, especially if they stumble early like they did last year.

---

JJ, I assume your predictions include a Howard to NJ trade? I like the Paul as MVP pick, if they finish high enough in the conference it makes for a great story.
   1310. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: December 16, 2011 at 05:36 PM (#4017775)
johnhollinger: So @GeryWoelfel reports Cap'n Jack, who is 33 and makes $9 million, and is holding out for a contract extension? Don't hold your breath dude
   1311. JJ1986 Posted: December 16, 2011 at 05:44 PM (#4017786)
JJ, I assume your predictions include a Howard to NJ trade?


I feel certain Howard will be traded, hence the Orlando placement. Hedging a bit on New Jersey, but there's not really anywhere else I can see him (except Chicago where he doesn't seem to want to play).
   1312. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: December 16, 2011 at 05:52 PM (#4017793)
First someone put them at a 4 seed, and now this. Steagles' enthusiasm is spreading like rabies. BTW, Steags, can we get some official predictions from you?
i don't do predictions and i don't do fantasy.

and since this is a new page, i figure i might talk a little bit more about what i see in this team.


previously, i'd said that the team has advantages due to the continuity between last year's team and this year's, which should be important when considering the shortened training camp and preseason, and the lack of practice time during the actual season. and i'd said that they're built for the condensed season because of the depth of quality players and the fact that the majority of their contributors (hawes, holiday, young, williams, turner, meeks, vucevic) are young (under 25) and athletic.


but looking beyond that, i really do think people lack an understanding of the quality of player that the sixers have.

iguodala, for instance, was one of the league's best perimeter defenders last year, but he was doing it with significant issues in his legs (specifically in the knee and achilles of one of his legs). and in addition to the great defense that he brought, he averaged 14, 6 and 6, with a 3:1 assist to turnover ratio.

jrue holiday, in just his 2nd year and as one of the youngest players in the league, averaged 14, 4, and 6.5 assists per game, with a ratio of well over 2 assists per turnover.

louis williams, as one of the league's elite 6th men, scored 21 points per 36 minutes and also averaged more than 2 assists per turnover.

thaddeus young, another of the league's elite 6th men, was 9th in the entire NBA in field goal percentage. and he'll be just 23 years old this season, which will be his 5th in the NBA.

elton brand averaged 15 and 8 despite being completely over the hill and being one of the most overpaid players in the league (*that's not my personal opinion it's just the one expressed by most everyone who posts on a sixers message board)

evan turner...needs to be better. i think he will be.

spencer hawes...needs to be better. can only cross my fingers on that one.

jodie meeks was one of the league's better 3 point shooters last season. if he shoots at the same percentages last year, i'll take it.


beyond that, the intangibles that should correlate to winning in this condensed year--depth, continuity, youth, experience, athleticism--are all things that the sixers have going in.


oh, and tonight is the team's first exhibition game. very excited to actually see them on the court. and because there are only 2 of these, i don't think we'll be seeing any extended run for zendon hamilton.
   1313. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: December 16, 2011 at 05:59 PM (#4017807)
Bulls have their first preseason game tonight, too. Rip may not play. Doesn't matter, I get to watch NBA today.

---

I guess lots of trade exceptions expire today, and it's the last day to amnesty someone this year.
   1314. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: December 16, 2011 at 06:08 PM (#4017816)
   1315. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: December 16, 2011 at 06:45 PM (#4017851)
Thursday was merely a practice with fans and cameras, but [James] showed a series of [post-moves]. He had the turnaround, he showed a drop step and several times had 1-on-1 chances where he turned his back instead of trying a series of crossover dribbles and then firing up a contested pull-up jumper.
-Windhorst
   1316. Famous Original Joe C Posted: December 16, 2011 at 07:04 PM (#4017872)
[1278] Really happy for Pruiti. Feel like I learned more about NBA basketball reading his stuff than I have ever before.

Ditto. He's great.

East
1. MIA
2. CHI
3. BOS
4. NYK
5. ORL
6. ATL
7. PHI
8. IND
9. NJ
10. MIL

West
1. OKC
2. DAL
3. LAC
4. LAL
5. SA
6. MEM
7. DEN
8. HOU
9. POR
10. PHO

Starting from the 2nd round:
MIA over NYK
CHI over BOS

DAL over LAC
OKC over LAL

MIA over CHI
OKC over DAL

MIA over OKC

Thoughts:
--I really see what you guys mean now that I've thought about the West a bit more - the Grizzlies look better almost by default. HCA in the 1st round is not a crazy idea for them at all.
--I may be grossly overrating the Clippers, but I just like them.
--I have very little confidence in my rankings 2-6 in the West.
--I don't see anyone but Miami or Chicago coming from the East unless there are significant injuries to one or both of those teams.
--I think Miami is the league's best team on paper
   1317. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: December 16, 2011 at 07:08 PM (#4017876)
Was talking to a friend of mine about my predictions and he convinced me that I was/am underrating POR. Aldridge, Camby, Crawford, Matthews and Wallace should make for a fairly competitive squad. Have there been any preseason pictures of Ray Felton yet? I assume he's wildly out of shape.
   1318. Jimmy P Posted: December 16, 2011 at 07:12 PM (#4017877)
Have there been any preseason pictures of Ray Felton yet? I assume he's wildly out of shape.

News here is that he's chunky.

News is also that Nate says the Blazers are going to run more this year. Supposedly, it was Roy and Miller that didn't allow them to. I'm still not 100% sold on that, though, Nate likes to call plays. A lot.
   1319. Fourth True Outcome Posted: December 16, 2011 at 07:28 PM (#4017896)
That Windhorst article sure is getting my hopes up. If James can add a real back-to-the-basket set of tricks to his game, especially with his court vision to pass if he gets doubled, he'll be even more fun to watch, and the Heat offense will run a bit more smoothly with him and Wade. As the article points out, this doesn't mean much yet, but I hope he's for real about this.
   1320. madvillain Posted: December 16, 2011 at 08:11 PM (#4017938)
Bulls have their first preseason game tonight, too. Rip may not play. Doesn't matter, I get to watch NBA today.


I'm hoping for a stream. Knowing the huge world wide Bulls fan base (Thanks MJ) and that it's on WGN, I like my odds of finding one.

Apparently Thibs told Jimmy Butler to prepare for extended burn tonight. I guess Rip plays little if at all.
   1321. madvillain Posted: December 16, 2011 at 08:19 PM (#4017943)
That Windhorst article sure is getting my hopes up. If James can add a real back-to-the-basket set of tricks to his game, especially with his court vision to pass if he gets doubled, he'll be even more fun to watch, and the Heat offense will run a bit more smoothly with him and Wade. As the article points out, this doesn't mean much yet, but I hope he's for real about this.


Pruiti had a good article about James in the post. Basically he just needs to post up more. It's a mindset more than a skill problem at this point.

Lebron is also one of the most deadly mid-range shooters in the game, really he has no weaknesses offensively. His post game will be more important as he ages. It's funny that Lebron is basically my age. Now I know how guys felt watching Jordan that were his age or older. It's one thing to be a kid and impressed by these guys, idolize them even. It's another to know at basically the same age as yourself, what great athletes they are. And in 10 years Lebron and I will both be in our late 30's and when he can't jump out of the gym anymore I'll crack a wry smile knowing time waits for no man, even one blessed with seemingly superhuman athleticism.
   1322. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: December 16, 2011 at 08:24 PM (#4017948)
Repeating...

BBTF fantasy basketball league. 16 teams max (we had 12 last season; now at 9); 14-man rosters; scoring based on Hollinger's Game Score:
(Points x 1.0) + (FGM x 0.4) + (FGA x -0.7) + ((FTA-FTM) x -0.4) + (OREB x 0.7) + (DREB x 0.3) + (STL x 1.0) + (AST x 0.7) + (BLK x 0.7) + (PF x -0.4) + (TO x -1.0)
League is #28232; PW is albright

Draft is Monday, 9 p.m. EST.
   1323. Famous Original Joe C Posted: December 16, 2011 at 08:30 PM (#4017952)
BTW, STEAGLES, I know it's off-topic here, but thought I'd just mention that it's terrible news about Pronger. As a Bruins fan, I obviously hate your Flyers, but you never want to see a guy of that caliber go down for any team.
   1324. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: December 16, 2011 at 08:50 PM (#4017970)
@tomhaberstroh: Pat Riley announces Erik Spoelstra's contract has been extended. Wouldn't reveal terms/years.


Maybe Riley won't be back this year after all...
   1325. jmurph Posted: December 16, 2011 at 09:02 PM (#4017981)
I like that everyone thinks OKC is coming out of the West but almost no one thinks they're going to win the title.


I picked them, but I don't really expect them to really make it out of the west. They still seem to be missing... something. But I can't see anyone better on paper, so I'm going with them.
   1326. smileyy Posted: December 16, 2011 at 09:18 PM (#4017998)
I don't remember Jordan's early career but for layup and dunk highlights, but I remember his devastating back to the basket game in his mid and late career.
   1327. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: December 16, 2011 at 09:20 PM (#4018001)
I picked them, but I don't really expect them to really make it out of the west. They still seem to be missing... something. But I can't see anyone better on paper, so I'm going with them.

I felt the same way, just thought it was funny. I think they could use some outside threats.
   1328. madvillain Posted: December 16, 2011 at 09:22 PM (#4018002)
   1329. smileyy Posted: December 16, 2011 at 09:22 PM (#4018004)
I think OKC is missing a coach.
   1330. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: December 16, 2011 at 09:29 PM (#4018010)
for moses and any othe bulls fans, a discussion of how thibs uses the guards to defend, and why Rip be a downgrade from bogans

I don't see anything there that would imply Rip is a downgrade, unless you're talking about a post up situation. And while Rip is not as strong as Bogans, he's got a height and reach advantage. In fact, reading that description convinced me even more than it wasn't a downgrade defensively *at all*.
   1331. Spivey Posted: December 16, 2011 at 09:37 PM (#4018019)
I think OKC is missing someone that can guard Nowitzki without fouling every possession. They seemed to have everything else last year - Durant's a good shooter from distance, so is Harden. Ibaka has a solid midrange game, and Westbrook's is passable. They make a habit of getting to the line. If Perkins can be healthy, their interior defense should be quite solid as well.
   1332. Famous Original Joe C Posted: December 16, 2011 at 09:46 PM (#4018027)
I think OKC is missing someone that can guard Nowitzki without fouling every possession.

I mean, you could argue the league has this problem.
   1333. madvillain Posted: December 16, 2011 at 10:20 PM (#4018045)
I don't see anything there that would imply Rip is a downgrade, unless you're talking about a post up situation. And while Rip is not as strong as Bogans, he's got a height and reach advantage. In fact, reading that description convinced me even more than it wasn't a downgrade defensively *at all*.


Yea, bad typo. I meant to say "won't be a downgrade". That guy, ColdFish, is probably one of the more technical basketball x's and o's minds I've found online that is a Bulls fan.
   1334. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: December 16, 2011 at 10:43 PM (#4018067)
i enjoyed this, although to this:

Are they especially good at anything? Here's a bit of a shocker: the 76ers were the league's number one team in lowest turnover rate. Didn't think that was the case.


i'd add that the team was also 6th in the NBA in assists last season. they were/are very disciplined with the ball in their hands last season.
   1335. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: December 16, 2011 at 10:45 PM (#4018068)
How can you not fall in love with him?

EDIT: By the way, the current Nets starting lineup

C: Brook Lopez
PF: Shelden Williams
SF: Damion James
SG: Anthony Morrow
PG: Deron Williams
   1336. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: December 16, 2011 at 10:55 PM (#4018076)
Steve Aschburner: Keith Bogans waived by Chicago Bulls. about 7 minutes ago

Tom Ziller: But ... but ... Keith Bogans got a DPOY vote last year! about 5 minutes ago

   1337. madvillain Posted: December 16, 2011 at 10:58 PM (#4018081)
How can you not fall in love with him?


What is it about Knicks late round rookies and a runaway hype train? DWTDD, Fields, and now Shumpert.
   1338. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: December 16, 2011 at 11:00 PM (#4018084)
What is it about Knicks late round rookies and a runaway hype train? DWTDD, Fields, and now Shumpert.

Don't forget David Lee.
   1339. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: December 16, 2011 at 11:38 PM (#4018116)
Am I crazy or is there not much difference between Jarret Jack and Toney Douglas? In addition, am I the only one that thinks Marcus Thornton is better than Jason Richardson?
   1340. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: December 16, 2011 at 11:50 PM (#4018126)
Am I crazy or is there not much difference between Jarret Jack and Toney Douglas?

In the sense that neither will ever start for a serious contender? Yes.

In addition, am I the only one that thinks Marcus Thornton is better than Jason Richardson?

Today? Perhaps. But I am not positive.
   1341. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: December 16, 2011 at 11:51 PM (#4018127)
KCJHoop: Rip Hamilton will not play Friday vs. Pacers. When he makes debut on Tuesday, team will let him wear headband to support mask. #Bulls


Can we please never talk about the headband thing again? Please?
   1342. madvillain Posted: December 17, 2011 at 12:13 AM (#4018143)
Can we please never talk about the headband thing again? Please?


No ####. I don't know why the media keeps dredging it up. Guess it's what they do. The headband rule was always stupid and stemmed from some misguided attempt to clean up the Post-Jordan image. Too bad that image had nothing to do with headbands and everything to do with #### teams.
   1343. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: December 17, 2011 at 02:22 AM (#4018201)
quite happy right now. 56 points, shooting 54% from the field, 5/10 from beyond the arc, 16 assists on 25 made shots. held the bullets to 35 points on 28% shooting, and of the 35 points allowed in the first half, 13 were scored at the FT line.


the team looks really good.
   1344. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: December 17, 2011 at 02:26 AM (#4018203)
the team looks really good.
8-0 run to start the 3rd quarter.
   1345. Into the Void Posted: December 17, 2011 at 02:32 AM (#4018209)
   1346. smileyy Posted: December 17, 2011 at 03:00 AM (#4018214)
I'd want the post-Trinity ring back. That wasn't supposed to be a 1-time apology. That was supposed to be a lifetime pass.
   1347. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: December 17, 2011 at 03:34 AM (#4018222)
i know this is kind of a nitpick, but considering that this is going to be a condensed season with a lot of games over a short timespan, it doesn't seem like a real good idea to play your starting SG 34 minutes in a game--which means nothing to begin with--that you led by 40. i think evan turner was out there a little too long, as well.


basically, it would have been a good idea for the organization to bring an extra point guard into training camp so they wouldn't have had to extend turner and meeks before the season even starts.


otherwise, that was a hell of a performance.
   1348. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: December 17, 2011 at 03:55 AM (#4018228)
Kyrie Irving does not strike an impressive figure. Yikes.

That John Wall cross over to dunk was insane.

EDIT: So happy to have the NBA back.

The Sixers juggernaut got off to a nice start.
   1349. madvillain Posted: December 17, 2011 at 03:59 AM (#4018232)
Kyrie Irving... Yikes.


Kyrie Irvin is going to struggle in the NBA. I doubt he's ever anything more than a solid starter, at absolute best. His physical tools are meh, his ability to penetrate, from what I saw at Duke, isn't anything special, and his shot is decent but not deadly enough to where guys have to guard him tight. He was quicker than 95% of college defenders, that's not going to be the case in the NBA.

He can improve his shot, handle, etc. I just don't think it's going to matter, he's too limited physically.


__________________

Bulls give up 32 in the 1st quarter and then 54 the rest of the game, winning 95-84. Just a strange game, for one thing it was the most intense pre season game I've ever seen. There is def a little bad blood between Chicago and Indy lingering from their playoff series. The officials were in pre season mode as well, calling every foul possible. Just a hard game to watch. Rose had two fouls before the 10 minute mark and at one point in the 1st quarter Rose, Boozer and Noah all had 2 or more fouls.

Boozer looked like crap, again, but whatever, it's preseason, I take nothing except how rookies look and Jimmy Butler looked good. Looks like he'll have a long career in the league, won't ever be a starter probably, but as a backup 2/3 that can defend either position, knock down the open jumper, and even play off the bounce a bit.
   1350. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: December 17, 2011 at 04:13 AM (#4018239)
The Sixers juggernaut got off to a nice start.
very excited--although iguodala was 0-6 from the field and didn't score a single point.
EDIT: So happy to have the NBA back.
seconded. definitely seconded.
   1351. Norcan Posted: December 17, 2011 at 05:03 AM (#4018259)
Yeah, Irving's athleticism was underwhelming from such a high draft pick to say the least. For his sake and Cavs fans, I hope it was related to his serious toe injury. There were reports that had the season started on time that he would have been out months. I remember him being quicker before he got injured but he wasn't a blazer either. He showed zero burst tonight and he doesn't have the size to make up for it. He can shoot though and has a lot of skills in his toolbag.

The Pistons might be the least talented and exciting team in the league. Getting Prince and Stuckey back isn't going to change that either. Wow, Joe Dumars, what have you done. Cleveland's not too far behind. There are some watered down teams right now.
   1352. Famous Original Joe C Posted: December 17, 2011 at 05:29 AM (#4018267)
You can tell how happy you guys are by the way you are dissecting the first set of PREseason games.
   1353. Norcan Posted: December 17, 2011 at 05:33 AM (#4018269)
Doc Rivers has dinged Shaq pretty good since he retired. I think he criticized him sharply during a speech at a coaching seminar of some sort, to the point that it surprised me that Shaq didn't have a response. Maybe he didn't hear about it. In an article about how impressive Jermaine O'Neal's been in camp, he got in another zinger at Shaq.

"Now he’s become a talker. That’s one of the things -- Kevin [Garnett], [Kendrick Perkins], [Glen Davis] and all those guys had -- Jermaine was new to it. We didn’t have that a lot last year. Jermaine was learning it and you’ve heard [Shaquille O'Neal] talk before, so no one could understand what the hell he was saying -- the mumble.


So true, so true. I can only imagine what Shaq's defensive calls in his monotone mumble must have sounded like.
   1354. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: December 17, 2011 at 05:34 AM (#4018271)
Knicks exhibition opener is tomorrow but they broadcast their practice today so here are some (probably unwanted) observations:

-STAT claims to have gained an inch due to work he did on his back over the summer and also said he added 20 pounds of muscle. How accurate those claims are, I'm not sure, but he did look noticeably bigger. He also hit a few pull up 3s. I'm really excited about this addition to his repertoire.

-Melo looks like he's in slightly better shape but it still bugs me that he doesn't look like STAT, Wade, LeBron, etc.

-When the Knicks picked up Melo last year, D'antoni made a comment about how there's no reason why Melo can't average a triple double in his system (I'm assuming he means come close to). That made me feel as though the team somehow thinks/thought Melo is some sort of reasonable facsimile of LeBron. Well, I no longer think that, I know that now as they seem to be really serious about this Melo as point forward thing. I've never thought of Melo as a particularly good ball handler or passer, so...this could get interesting.

-Chandler has really taken to the whole being the leader of the defense thing. There were a few funny segments where he kind of said, without directly saying it, that his job is to clean up the mess created by STAT and Melo.

-As I alluded to with the above linked clip, I'm in love with Shumpert. He missed just about every jumper he took and was overly aggressive on defense but seems like he's got a good head on his shoulders and a better sense of team defense/communication than most of the guys on the team.

-Mike Bibby isn't easy on the eyes.

-Harrelson looks hilarious and can't really get off the floor but got his hands on a lot of balls and showed good activity. For some reason, there were a few sets that ended with him taking long jumpers. I don't remember how good his shot is supposed to be but...it didn't seem to be working.

EDIT: DWTDD's passing looked more creative, which is good, but he was still picking up his dribble too much and struggling with the alley-oop.

Oh yeah, the team ran what amounted to an alley-oop drill and Jared Jeffries ###### up both of his. Of course.
   1355. Norcan Posted: December 17, 2011 at 05:48 AM (#4018280)
I've never thought of Melo as a particularly good ball handler or passer, so...this could get interesting.


I think Melo's handle is functional enough to allow him to execute his power drives to the rim but it's not great. It doesn't really hamper him all that much if at all. As for his passing, I've always thought he was a really talented passer. He can whip some cross court diagonal passes you just can't pull off unless you have the gift for passing. He has a lot of other passes in his repertoire too. The problem has been that it seems he thinks he's always one made shot away from a 20 point quarter. I think his low assist numbers are due to mindset more than a lack of ability. If D'Antoni pushes him to average more than 5-6 assist a game, I don't thin it'll be very difficult for him at all. It's kind of embarrassing that he's never even averaged 4 assists a game with the way he can pass.
   1356. madvillain Posted: December 17, 2011 at 07:56 AM (#4018310)
I was curious about Irving's measurements so I went to Draft Express' database. I was disappointed to see Irving hardly did anything at the pre draft camps other than be measured. He was 6'3.5" in shoes. Oh well.

FWIW, Knicks runaway hype train Iman Shumpert had some pretty insane measurables. 6'4.5" in shoes and a 40" no step vert. Take these numbers with a grain of salt however. By looking at the spreadsheet you could be talked into saying Mike Conley is a better athlete than Derrick Rose or John Wall. But that's just on spreadsheet.
   1357. robinred Posted: December 17, 2011 at 09:34 AM (#4018311)
No worries in LakerLand on the divorce. Stern is vetoing it for basketball reasons and taking over as Kobe and Vanessa’s marriage counselor.
   1358. GregD Posted: December 17, 2011 at 04:58 PM (#4018409)
Does it seem like there are some interesting guys floating around for bench spots at the vet minimum? Obviously you cannot build your starting lineup around Baron Davis, Keith Bogans, and Travis Outlaw, but those guys would be good-enough bench players to help a bunch of teams.
   1359. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: December 17, 2011 at 05:31 PM (#4018421)
Heart surgery for Jeff Green - out for all of 2011-12.
   1360. andrewberg Posted: December 17, 2011 at 06:00 PM (#4018438)
Poor guy, Jeff is one of the kindest and most decent athletes I have ever been aroune.g.

I'm not touching the Kobe thing. I don't like him but I never wanted his family ruined.
   1361. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: December 17, 2011 at 06:20 PM (#4018457)
Sam Amick: ESPNBoston reporting Green's recently-signed one-year, $9 million deal is expected to be voided and Boston would retain his rights. about 7 minutes ago

   1362. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: December 17, 2011 at 06:36 PM (#4018466)
John Hollinger: Incidentally, replacing him with injury exception would cost Boston $28 million A) have to pay Green, b) have to pay new guy, c) tax on both about 26 minutes ago





and completely unrelated to the above:

Jarrod Rudolph: Daniel Orton looks horrible, just terrible. The Magic need a back-up center PDQ! about 29 minutes ago

i was a really huge fan of daniel orton when he came out of kentucky last year. either i was wrong about his potential (which is definitely possible, considering his limited usage as a freshman at UK) or (and this would be my guess) between the knee surgery and being locked out of team facilities, he's not in anywhere near peak condition.
Alex Kennedy: Stan Van Gundy is chewing out Daniel Orton. So far, Orton has been blocked by Glen Davis and dunked on by Dwight Howard. about 48 minutes ago
yeah, that's not very good.
Jarrod Gillis: Daniel Orton just gettin' used. I love how Van Gundy's telling these guys to run but he's got no speed in that lineup. Good Luck Stan. about 49 minutes ago
   1363. robinred Posted: December 17, 2011 at 10:02 PM (#4018611)
WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Troy Murphy has reached agreement on a one-year deal with the Lakers, league source tells Y! Sports.

____

"Maybe if we sign a lot of white guys, no one will notice that Odom is gone!"
   1364. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: December 17, 2011 at 10:29 PM (#4018630)
Notes from Knicks-Nets

-On his very first touch of the game, Josh Harrelson confidently nailed a 27 foot 3 pointer. I #### you not. Outside of the 3, Jorts had a good game. Really active on both ends. He's definitely not 6'10'' though.

-Melo's shot was off. He had a few airballs, but looked great setting up the half court offense. He had more than a few passes worth some "oohs"

-STAT also had a couple good passes but looked out of sync offensively.

-Landry looked every bit as terrible as he did at the end of last season. The slower pace is killing him as he relies on movement to get his baskets so when STAT and Melo are in the game he gets stuck doing a lot of watching. Then, when he's in the game with the second unit things don't improve because he lacks any ability to create for himself, often losing his dribble.

-Chandler was abused by Brook Lopez who looked great.

-Marshon Brooks also looked really good from the Nets side. Nice jumper and good handle. Once he got any separation on the dribble drive he was able to make things happen.

-Iman Shumpert looked every bit as amazing as one would expect from the '12 ROY. A little too aggressive on the defensive end and doesn't know how to properly read screens yet, but I like him coming off the bench as our scorer.

-Renaldo Balkman was fantastic. It would be nice if D'antoni gave him some PT this year considering the schedule and how thin our roster is.

-DWTDD had a pretty rough go of it as far as setting up the offense though he played better with the second unit it seemed (which may have more to do with the Nets also having their second unit in at that point)
   1365. madvillain Posted: December 17, 2011 at 10:36 PM (#4018639)
-DWTDD had a pretty rough go of it as far as setting up the offense though he played better with the second unit it seemed (which may have more to do with the Nets also having their second unit in at that point)


What do you think about Baron Davis? DWTDD is not a real PG, not the type that can play more than 15 minutes a game for a contender anyways. My opinion on Baron is that he's toast. Bad back, bad knees -- I just don't think he's got anything left. The Knicks would be relying on him to play an uptempo syle 30+ minutes a night on a condensed schedule. That's a recipe for disaster.

I agree Shumpert looks like a player. I can see a little Sprewell in him in the way he goes up for those ferocious 1-handed jams.
   1366. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: December 17, 2011 at 10:55 PM (#4018648)
[1365] I'm on board for a Davis signing. I just think they should get as many bodies as possible to throw at the PG problem. There have also been rumors, which I'm inclined to believe, that Davis' "back injury" may miraculously heal upon signing with the team of his choice.

By the way, towards the end of the game today "Where's the Kardashian guy?"-Walt Clyde Frazier.

EDIT: I agree Shumpert looks like a player. I can see a little Sprewell in him in the way he goes up for those ferocious 1-handed jams.

That's an interesting comp.
   1367. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: December 17, 2011 at 10:55 PM (#4018649)
I agree Shumpert looks like a player. I can see a little Sprewell in him in the way he goes up for those ferocious 1-handed jams.
speaking of spree, pj carlesimo is an assistant coach for the nets this year.

i was actually a pretty big fan of both shumpert and harrelson at the draft. i thought shumpert was a bit of a reach where he was taken, but his defense is top notch, and if he can be as efficient on the offensive end as he was today, that's a hell of a player.


just looking at the game's boxscore, i'm wondering about whether the massive amount of turnovers that the nets had were due to the knicks defense, sloppy play, or just generally the nets being ####?
   1368. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: December 17, 2011 at 11:04 PM (#4018655)
just looking at the game's boxscore, i'm wondering about whether the massive amount of turnovers that the nets had were due to the knicks defense, sloppy play, or just generally the nets being ####?

Both. In the Knicks practice broadcast yesterday there was a segment in the video room that showed Woodson talking about the guards needing to get more aggressive and get on ballhandlers by the time they get to halfcourt so the opposition can't stroll into their offense. They did that today. There were a couple times the Knicks were able to trap the ballhandler around halfcourt, against the sideline by having the primary defender come early and then sending a big as a secondary defender. This happened on the first play of the game with Melo and STAT, which...was shocking, I'll admit.
   1369. smileyy Posted: December 17, 2011 at 11:06 PM (#4018656)
Having to pay luxury tax on an injured guy is stupid, if I read that right.

I think Baron Davis is a guy who can take a lot off the table, to the detriment of the talent the Knicks have.
   1370. andrewberg Posted: December 17, 2011 at 11:06 PM (#4018657)
The nets from their 3rd guy down must be the worst team. Them and Orlando anyway.

Georgetown stomped American (competent mid major) in the second half. Henry sims, a 6'11 center had 6 assists to continue leading the team. I'm really enjoying the surprisingly good rebuilding season.
   1371. robinred Posted: December 17, 2011 at 11:11 PM (#4018659)
OKC is supposedly negotiating a buyout with Nate Robinson.
   1372. smileyy Posted: December 17, 2011 at 11:17 PM (#4018661)
American, Chinese, Georgetown stomps them all.

I think you're overselling American a little there though.
   1373. andrewberg Posted: December 17, 2011 at 11:21 PM (#4018663)
How much more than ridnour would NYK want for fields? Both seem to fit better with the other's coach. Fields <=> inferior Christie
   1374. Conor Posted: December 17, 2011 at 11:25 PM (#4018665)
By the way, towards the end of the game today "Where's the Kardashian guy?"-Walt Clyde Frazier.


This was amazing.
   1375. GregD Posted: December 17, 2011 at 11:29 PM (#4018669)
Georgetown stomped American (competent mid major) in the second half. Henry sims, a 6'11 center had 6 assists to continue leading the team. I'm really enjoying the surprisingly good rebuilding season.
Georgetown's a good story and I'm pro-Hoya, but even a rebuilding Georgetown should stomp American. Pomeroy's ratings aren't perfect, especially this early, but he has American at #213 before the game, one below Charleston Southern and one above Florida Gulf Coast and Maine,teams that top programs should stomp with regularity.
   1376. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: December 17, 2011 at 11:54 PM (#4018679)
I agree Shumpert looks like a player. I can see a little Sprewell in him in the way he goes up for those ferocious 1-handed jams.


David Locke (Jazz radio guy) said he saw a Sprewell comp for Alec Burks too. He was super high on Burks before the draft too(he dropped a Roy comp).
   1377. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: December 18, 2011 at 01:10 AM (#4018700)
[Adrian Wojnarowski] Adrian Wojnarowski: The Sacramento Kings have claimed ex-Net Travis Outlaw with a bid off amnesty waivers, league sources tell Y! Sports. about 35 minutes ago


[Ralph Lawler] Ralph Lawler: Kaman, Gordon and Aminu have each passed physical in New Orleans. Clipper trade for Chris Paul now OFFICIAL. He can now practice and play. about 20 minutes ago

Mark Medina: Lakers send Andrew Goudelock, Marcus Thomas to D-Fenders http://lat.ms/sXD0Ag 1 hour ago

[Janis Carr] Janis Carr: "I'd much rather run suicides all day than sit in that room for 12, 13 hours looking at David Stern," Kobe said. about 1 hour ago


   1378. madvillain Posted: December 18, 2011 at 01:28 AM (#4018706)
Can you imagine if the one of those guys in the Paul trade failed his physical? At this point I wouldn't even be surprised if the league just rubber stamped them.
   1379. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: December 18, 2011 at 01:41 AM (#4018710)
How much more than ridnour would NYK want for fields? Both seem to fit better with the other's coach. Fields <=> inferior Christie

This is funny because I actually came on here to propose something like this. I think the Knicks should kick the tires on a Fields for PG deal. See how salaries and stuff match up with the TWolves or Clippers guys.
   1380. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: December 18, 2011 at 02:29 AM (#4018719)
so, i just took a quick look at the 2012 mock on draftexpress...is it the consensus opinion that kendall marshall is the only first round talent at PG? other names show up in the top of the 2nd (holloway, taylor, bost, lillard), but is there really such a large talent deficiency at PG this year?


also, why in the blue hell is robbie hummel still considered an NBA prospect? i mean, he was intriguing 3 years ago, but between the injuries. the poor efficiency, and the limited upside, his name really shouldn't be anywhere near even the backend of an NBA mock draft.
   1381. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: December 18, 2011 at 02:35 AM (#4018720)
thabeet sighting in houston.
   1382. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: December 18, 2011 at 02:36 AM (#4018721)
thabeet sighting in houston.


...and there's his first foul
   1383. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: December 18, 2011 at 02:46 AM (#4018723)
thabeet sighting in houston.

...and there's his first foul


next update:

in a span of about 15 seconds, he pulled down an offensive rebound, got an assist on a scola layup, and then blocked a shot in transition after hustling down to the other side of the court.
   1384. madvillain Posted: December 18, 2011 at 02:52 AM (#4018726)
I'm watching Bucks / Wolves because I'm a masochist and also to see if my doubts about Rubio are well founded. Rubio actually looks pretty good. His handle and vision have certainly translated. Something about the increased spacing of the NBA compared to Euro ball has helped him. He looked pretty bad the worlds, and this is just a 5 minute stretch of a preseason game, but her certainly looks like he might have a chance to excel. His defense however is as bad as advertised.

Anthony Randolph is absolute garbage. In a 5 minute stretch he bricked two 19 foot jumpers (there's a reason you're open Anthony), fumbled a pass that would have led to a layup (Rubio made a nice pass), fouled his man for a 3 point play and then fouled his man again the next time down.

I think it might be about time to give up on this guy ever being anything other than a 9th man.
   1385. nick swisher hygiene Posted: December 18, 2011 at 02:52 AM (#4018727)
"Orton has been blocked by Glen Davis and dunked on by Dwight Howard."

In the words of Sesame Street, one of these things is not like the other.....
   1386. Der-K: Hipster doofus Posted: December 18, 2011 at 03:41 AM (#4018743)
Shumpert: A lot of this falls on Hewitt, but .... remember my off and on (mostly on) complaints about GT's offense last year? You don't want to rely on Shumpert as anything more than a defensive specialist, at least not yet. TRUST ME.
SCHOENE projected him to shoot 33% from the floor this year.
   1387. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: December 18, 2011 at 03:43 AM (#4018744)
Jerry Zgoda: Wolves made 10 of 11 3 point attempts in the 1st half, finished with a 31-12 closing run about 6 minutes ago

[Bill Ingram] Bill Ingram: The Rockets are +13 with Thabeet on the floor . . .granted, preseason, Spurs playing scrubs, but still . . . about 11 minutes ago

Jeff McDonald: It's so funny. Manu's getting pissed. In the second quarter. Of a preseason game. about 27 minutes ago
   1388. smileyy Posted: December 18, 2011 at 03:51 AM (#4018746)
I wouldn't count on GT's new coach to bring much to the table in terms of offense or player development.
   1389. Der-K: Hipster doofus Posted: December 18, 2011 at 04:05 AM (#4018752)
i'm not. (sniff)
   1390. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: December 18, 2011 at 04:14 AM (#4018753)
Article from the Rockets' viewpoint about the CP3 fiasco.
   1391. robinred Posted: December 18, 2011 at 04:19 AM (#4018755)
Stern said he did not believe his role in the trade decision would produce a conflict of interest, calling his involvement a "frozen moment in time."


From the link.

Daryl Morey, asked about it the other day, said he couldn't talk about it on "advice of counsel."

Watched about 15 minutes of MIL/MIN. I am sure berg will be here with a detailed report once he is breathing normally and his heart rate slows down.
   1392. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: December 18, 2011 at 04:29 AM (#4018760)
Watched about 15 minutes of MIL/MIN. I am sure berg will be here with a detailed report once he is breathing normally and his heart rate slows down.
i caught most of the second half. that offense could be deadly. tolliver, williams, and love were killing it from beyond the arc, and rubio was pretty great about finding the open man out of the pick and roll.


even if they're not great, they look like they'll definitely be entertaining.



oh, and also, bonzi wells is terrible.
   1393. smileyy Posted: December 18, 2011 at 04:31 AM (#4018762)
I'd love to see a team that could run a 5-out offense.
   1394. madvillain Posted: December 18, 2011 at 05:41 AM (#4018783)

oh, and also, bonzi wells is terrible.


I did a literal LOL when I heard his name on the broadcast. I would have guessed Bonzi was either sitting at home counting his piles of money or somewhere in basketball Siberia overseas.

I hope he makes an NBA team, the league is a more interesting place when Bonzi Wells is in it.
   1395. Kurt Posted: December 18, 2011 at 05:52 AM (#4018788)
There's a new opening in the BBTF fantasy league. I guess the draft time changed to a time I'm not available, autodrafted teams are lame, so I took my team out to let someone else in. The draft is tomorrow at 5 EST.
   1396. Norcan Posted: December 18, 2011 at 07:12 AM (#4018805)
I'm watching Bucks / Wolves because I'm a masochist and also to see if my doubts about Rubio are well founded. Rubio actually looks pretty good. His handle and vision have certainly translated. Something about the increased spacing of the NBA compared to Euro ball has helped him. He looked pretty bad the worlds, and this is just a 5 minute stretch of a preseason game, but her certainly looks like he might have a chance to excel. His defense however is as bad as advertised.


Bad as advertised? His defense is actually supposed to be one of his strong points. He has fantastic anticipation and very quick hands. He likes to play Sasha Vujacic defense where he goes chest to chest and really pesters his man, annoying them in the process. Against the Bucks though, I agree, he didn't look like much of a defender. For a guy who has eight years of experience in Euro ball where they run screen after screen, he sure didn't handle them well on defense. Maybe he won't be able to handle quick guards (though he guarded the much bigger Livingston for most of the game) but it remains to be seen.
   1397. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: December 18, 2011 at 04:16 PM (#4018861)
David Thorpe: Hold on that Rubio optimism-he had no bigger fan than I two seasons ago.But teams will learn to play him for passing only-until he can score about 44 minutes ago

Emiliano Carchia: Warriors agreed to trade Lou Amundson to Indiana Pacers for Brandon Rush. Deal official next Monday. Via @Marcus Thompson 3 minutes ago

Surya Fernandez: Orlando Magic have won 21 straight preseason games with the last loss in 10-6-08. Impressive since it means nothing. about 9 minutes ago
   1398. Greg K Posted: December 18, 2011 at 04:27 PM (#4018867)
Orlando Magic have won 21 straight preseason games with the last loss in 10-6-08. Impressive since it means nothing. about 9 minutes ago

The Blue Jays haven't lost a playoff game in almost 20 years. THAT'S dominance.
   1399. andrewberg Posted: December 18, 2011 at 06:34 PM (#4018927)
Does anyone want to fill the last spot in the fantasy league? If not, I'll find someone to do the draft and possibly let someone here take over the team after the draft.
   1400. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: December 18, 2011 at 06:58 PM (#4018936)
The Rockets have finally come to terms on a contract with their second round pick, Chandler Parsons. I assume all of you will be adjusting your predictions by moving Houston up seven or eight slots in the Western Conference pecking order.
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