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Friday, December 02, 2011

NBA THREAD DECEMBER: POST-LOCKOUT

With the lockout over, I estimate that there may be more than 10-12 Primates who want to talk about the NBA, and with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: fractional reserve banking, and Tim Tebow.

robinred Posted: December 02, 2011 at 12:26 AM | 3254 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: general

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   1501. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: December 21, 2011 at 12:22 AM (#4020632)
phi ws/48: you didn't account for position. brand was 30% above the league avg for pfs (.124), iggy was 38% above the league average for sf (.094).

and, no matter how you slice it, you're not accounting for defense. add in defensive per (or whatever) and you have iguodala on top on a per minute basis.... he also plays a lot of minutes per game.
yeah, i'm not exceedingly familiar with "advanced" basketball statistics, so i'll take your word about ws/48.

i guess this is kind of an "i watch the games" type of thing. i think both jrue and elton work much better within the framework of the offense than iguodala does, and i think they're both much more effective at that end of the floor.

and i know that iguodala is kind of all-world as a shutdown wing, but elton and jrue are pretty damn good in their own right. now (as opposed to 3 years ago*) i fully appreciate all of the things iguodala does to help the team win, but he's no longer the team's best player, and he no longer deserves to have the ball in his hands at the end of the game with the game on the line.


*3 years ago, iguodala was surrounded by the likes of reggie evans, willie green, sam dalembert, and andre miller. at the time, he was the goto player of a team that was consistently mediocre and he was the face of that mediocrity. during that period, we kept hearing about how great iguodala would be when he was traded to a team that had the kind of talent that would allow him to take on a role more suited to his talent.

that trade never came, but the team he was waiting for is here now. i'm very excited to see how this all comes together.

there's about 45 minutes till tip off. very excited for this.
   1502. andrewberg Posted: December 21, 2011 at 12:56 AM (#4020681)
I realize its the Clippers and it's somewhat unimaginable, but other than front-court depth, nothing really sticks out to me as an obvious reason that they can't be as good as any team in the league.

EDIT- I guess people don't like VDN, so that would be one reason.


Yes, VDN is a big negative. Hollinger said something like "not even Del Negro will be able to slow down this offense in crunch time."

The front court depth is another problem. Neither Blake nor Jordan is a great one-on-one post defender right now, there is no one to slide in if a serious injury occurs, and they don't really have a capable stopgap for the certainty that these guys will be in occasional foul trouble. Still, I think that problem is so obvious that they can't help but address it.

Finally, who guards scoring perimeter guys in crunch time? I know the league has a shortage of shooting guards, but between Kobe, Wade, Westbrook/Harden, Terry, Ginobili, Ellis/Curry, etc, there are enough guys that they could swing some crucial games. While Paul is a solid defender, he is smaller and better suited to guard 1's. Butler and Billups no longer have the lateral quickness to stay in front of any of those guys. Williams has both problems. Foye might be the best of the bunch, but then you're playing Randy Foye. I think they need to address this issue, too.
   1503. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: December 21, 2011 at 01:11 AM (#4020691)
game on.

if you want to see the best in the world, i believe the game is being broadcast on NBATV.
   1504. robinred Posted: December 21, 2011 at 01:47 AM (#4020714)
Good stuff from Arnovitz on VDN and the Clippers, copied from a copy at FBG:

The below is an excerpt from Kevin Arnovitz who posted on the Clippers at TrueHoop:

“The big winner of Monday night?

(Vinny) Del Negro. Not because he outcoached anyone, but because what transpired on the floor suggests that Del Negro’s shortcoming will be mitigated by circumstance.

The league is moving away from systems and intricately choreographed play calls from the sidelines. Today’s NBA is about getting the ball up and finding clean looks at the basket before defenses can get set. And if you have a couple of floor generals such as Paul and Billups on the roster, there will be plenty of margin for error because they’re more than capable of manufacturing opportunities for themselves and others when the shot clock begins to tick down. The thickness of Del Negro’s playbook measures only a 10th of the thickness of what Mike Dunleavy toted to work every day. With this team at this moment, that might do the trick.

But sometime in late spring, a critical moment will arise. The Thunder will use Kendrick Perkins and Nick Collison to clamp down on Griffin. The Mavs will identify a fatal inefficiency in the Clippers’ defense. When it’s time for Del Negro to counter, will he have a solution? “


If you have Paul and Billups, maybe you don't need an offensively aware coach
   1505. Bitter Mouse Posted: December 21, 2011 at 02:39 AM (#4020749)
If you have Paul and Billups, maybe you don't need an offensively aware coach


For the regular season, maybe. I think coaching is more important in the playoffs though.
   1506. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: December 21, 2011 at 02:57 AM (#4020758)
if you want to see the best in the world, i believe the game is being broadcast on NBATV.
You're too high on John Wall.
   1507. robinred Posted: December 21, 2011 at 03:03 AM (#4020763)
@1505

That was the point Arnovitz was making at the end, with the "late spring" thing.

Pelton has the Clippers #2 in the conference and has Memphis fighting to get in. SCHOENE missed on some teams pretty badly last year, though.
   1508. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: December 21, 2011 at 04:18 AM (#4020807)
You're too high on John Wall.
:)


that was an ugly game. the bullets came to play, and the sixers struggled to match up to their intensity. jrue holiday was out of control for most of the game, and he was really reckless with the ball in transition.

noticeably different from past seasons were the 3 pt and FT discrepancies. the sixers were 7/16 from beyond the arc and they held(?) WAS to 2/18. but the game was won at the FT line. holiday (7/8), turner (7/8), and lou williams (8/8) were particular standouts, and their ability to hit key late game FTs is something the team had desperately been without during the entirety of the iguodala era.


and i think it's worth pointing out that jrue holiday scored 11 points (and added an assist) in the last 2:13 of the 4th quarter. he really took the game over, and if it's a sign of things to come, the team really will be as good as i've been saying they are.


anyway, for as seamlessly as the team ran the offense in game 1, they were equally and oppositely poor at it this game. brand and hawes never really got into the game on offense, and there was just no continuity when they were running the offense in the halfcourt.



still, they won, and that's better than the alternative. i guess i'll take it.
   1509. robinred Posted: December 21, 2011 at 05:01 AM (#4020821)
BaskPro available for download for $9.98.
   1510. tshipman Posted: December 21, 2011 at 05:02 AM (#4020824)
I realize its the Clippers and it's somewhat unimaginable, but other than front-court depth, nothing really sticks out to me as an obvious reason that they can't be as good as any team in the league.


The Clippers last year had the 23rd best offensive efficiency and the 19th best defensive efficiency.

They lost Gordon and Kaman and improved greatly at PG. I don't see how the defense got better.

Even if the offense improves quite a bit, let's say to an offensive efficiency of what the Lakers did last year (7th best in the league at 107.9), they'd have to markedly improve their defense to be serious contenders. The Houston Rockets had an offensive efficiency of 108 last year and the 18th ranked defensive efficiency.

For you to say the Clippers are a high seed, you have to think that Chris Paul turned a below average offense into the peak Phoenix Suns offense or that he is going to have a huge defensive impact as well.
   1511. robinred Posted: December 21, 2011 at 05:10 AM (#4020830)
BASKPRO has the Clippers at 40-26, 2nd seed, 4th in O and 14th in D (fewer turnovers can help the D).
Lakers at 34-32, 7th seed.
   1512. Into the Void Posted: December 21, 2011 at 05:21 AM (#4020834)
For you to say the Clippers are a high seed, you have to think that Chris Paul turned a below average offense into the peak Phoenix Suns offense or that he is going to have a huge defensive impact as well.


I don't think that's so hard to believe when you look at the difference between Chris Paul in his prime and an out of shape, defensively-indifferent Baron Davis who shot 152 3's at 29% for the Clips last year.
   1513. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: December 21, 2011 at 05:27 AM (#4020835)
that he is going to have a huge defensive impact as well.

I think he will have some impact defensively- and the TOs are a big deal- but I think another big upgrade defensively will be Griffin. He has all the tools to be a great defensive player and young players tend to improve their D substantially in their early years. I could see him, the Paul upgrade, and the general improvement in perimeter depth (and assuming they add another big) giving them a huge boost on the D side.

Remember, a lot of the Clippers last year is Baron Davis, a gimpy Kaman, lots of minutes for rookies, and well....the Clippers. All of that- knock on wood- is gone. Don't sell my team short.;)

EDIT- I also agree with ItV, this Clipper offense could be devastating.
   1514. andrewberg Posted: December 21, 2011 at 05:30 AM (#4020836)
Tship- the rockets were close to a 50 win team by pythag. Lac could do worse.
   1515. tshipman Posted: December 21, 2011 at 05:31 AM (#4020837)
I don't think that's so hard to believe when you look at the difference between Chris Paul in his prime and an out of shape, defensively-indifferent Baron Davis who shot 152 3's at 29% for the Clips last year.


B. Diddy still had a 16.3 PER last year.


BASKPRO has the Clippers at 40-26, 2nd seed, 4th in O and 14th in D (fewer turnovers can help the D).


I just don't see it.

New Orleans last year was the 19th ranked team in Offensive Efficiency. If we were talking about NO, and they had just traded David West and Emeka Okafor for Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan, would anyone be talking about that as the 4th best offense in the league?

Edit:
Tship- the rockets were close to a 50 win team by pythag. Lac could do worse.


Sure. The Rockets were really good, but they were better defensively and drastically better offensively. I don't think it's realistic to suggest that one player, as good as he is can do that (especially when subtracting guys like Gordon and Kaman). The 2011 Miami Heat added LeBron and Chris Bosh and improved 4.8 points in offensive efficiency. The Rockets were 6.2 points better in offensive efficiency than the Clippers.
   1516. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: December 21, 2011 at 05:44 AM (#4020842)
If we were talking about NO, and they had just traded David West and Emeka Okafor for Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan, would anyone be talking about that as the 4th best offense in the league?

And Chauncey Billups and Mo Williams for Ariza? Sure.
   1517. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: December 21, 2011 at 05:48 AM (#4020845)
All the stuff I've been thinking about Philly (and I could say plenty more) - the new BaskPro annual says better.
   1518. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: December 21, 2011 at 06:04 AM (#4020849)
Watching GSW-SAC:

1) These teams suck
2) Steph Curry sprained his ankle -- same one he's had problems with. Didn't look that bad to me but he couldn't put any weight on it and limped off
3) I forgot Mark Jackson was the Warriors' coach, heh, good luck with that
   1519. robinred Posted: December 21, 2011 at 06:09 AM (#4020852)
It also has the 76ers at 36-30, 6th seed, which seems reasonable.
   1520. andrewberg Posted: December 21, 2011 at 06:12 AM (#4020853)
The 2011 Miami Heat added LeBron and Chris Bosh and improved 4.8 points in offensive efficiency


You're massively underrating Michael Beasley :)
   1521. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: December 21, 2011 at 06:35 AM (#4020859)
I think so, robin.

It also called Pape Sy "a poor man's Quinton Ross", which is worth the purchase price right there.

How does GSW have so little depth?

Heh, andrew...
   1522. smileyy Posted: December 21, 2011 at 08:40 AM (#4020870)
I'm looking forward to Jordan Crawford setting new records for inefficiency.
   1523. smileyy Posted: December 21, 2011 at 08:44 AM (#4020872)
On that note, is there an NBA equivalent of Hacking Mass?
   1524. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: December 21, 2011 at 09:16 AM (#4020873)
DeMarcus Cousins' box score line tonight:

29 minutes, 2-9 FG, 2-7 FT, 10 rebounds, 1 assist, 4 fouls, 9 TO

Gotta give him some allowance for the fearful Golden State defense I guess.

To be fair, he did have a critical block late, and 3 steals. But I know who I'm taking in Hacking Mass if it exists.
   1525. Norcan Posted: December 21, 2011 at 10:11 AM (#4020880)
3) I forgot Mark Jackson was the Warriors' coach, heh, good luck with that


I wouldn't dismiss him so prematurely. Sure his on-air persona was a bit cartoonish with his reliance on catch phrases and he wasn't all that articulate in between catch phrases but nothing I've seen from his first two games tells me that he's overmatched. One thing I've really liked is that he really attacks a mismatch. With a lot of coaches, it can get frustrating to see them not demand their team exploit them but that's not going to be a problem with Jackson. Another thing I liked is that he seems to have a nurturing bent. Klay Thompson had a horrible night but Jackson still designed the final shot for him like he wanted to instill confidence in him. This was after Thompson had badly airballed a three on the previous possession. I like that Jackson used a meaningless preseason game to try to pick Thompson up.
   1526. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: December 21, 2011 at 02:50 PM (#4020913)
It also has the 76ers at 36-30, 6th seed, which seems reasonable.
take the over. i know that washington isn't good, but they pulled down 21 offensive rebounds, and the sixers turned the ball over 20 times last night. washington had 28 more shots in that game, and they still lost by 7.

and the sixers once again had 6 players score in double figures--holiday had 24, iguodala, turner, and young had 13, meeks had 11, and lou williams had 10. considering that brand and hawes scored in double figures in game 1, that's everyone in the sixers top 8 that did it within the 2 game preseason.

and one last note on last night's game, evan turner had 13 points on 3/5 shooting and added in 9 rebounds and 4 assists.
   1527. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: December 21, 2011 at 03:37 PM (#4020942)
I forgot Mark Jackson was the Warriors' coach, heh, good luck with that


He was one of my favorite players when he was with Indiana. As a point guard, he was an inventive passer, good rebounder, and played a lot of post up. Slower than molasses though.
   1528. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: December 21, 2011 at 04:37 PM (#4020993)
Stefan Bondy: Nets have officially re-signed Kris Humphries. Avery says, "we want him to get back to being Hump." 2 minutes ago

Lang Greene: Newest Clipper Reggie Evans avg 14.7 rebounds last season when given 30+ minutes. Won't see that much time behind BG, but still impressive about 26 minutes ago

Chris Sheridan: Rip Hamilton had 6 assists and ran like a gazelle in his Bulls debut. His transition will be easy, says @silvawriter: http://bit.ly/rv0nQQ about 43 minutes ago

Jorge Sierra: The wheels are falling off, so expect him to get under people's skin more to gain an advantage. about 47 minutes ago

Jorge Sierra: Prediction: Kevin Garnett's act will get even more vicious this year. about 49 minutes ago

   1529. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: December 21, 2011 at 05:10 PM (#4021035)
and i think it's worth pointing out that jrue holiday scored 11 points (and added an assist) in the last 2:13 of the 4th quarter. he really took the game over, and if it's a sign of things to come, the team really will be as good as i've been saying they are.

I just can't take it anymore. I mean, I just can't. I can no longer respond, it's just too much. That's my problem, of course, and I'll try to deal with it to myself.

---

Chris Sheridan: Rip Hamilton had 6 assists and ran like a gazelle in his Bulls debut. His transition will be easy, says @silvawriter: http://bit.ly/rv0nQQ about 43 minutes ago

I am pissed that I missed the game - preseason, I know. But the Bulls/Pacers are developing quite a "rivalry" - although it's not really a rivalry if one team wins 95% of the time (like that brewing Miami/Philly rivalry - ####, here I go again). I was in the middle of a programming dispute with Dish Network, who for some reason decided to add Comcast SportsNet Chicago to a special tier without any notice or warning and so I couldn't watch the game. And it took over a half hour for them to figure out why I wasn't getting it. Special group of people over there.

---

Evans will help the Clips. K-Hump gets another year to prove last year wasn't a fluke.

---

Bulls are announcing Rose's extension today - 5 yr, $94mil, thanks to the Derrick Rose rule. I wish I can find that stupid article from ESPN last year that said Bulls fans were stupid for assuming that Rose wouldn't leave Chicago like LeBron left Cleveland.
   1530. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: December 21, 2011 at 05:18 PM (#4021046)
(like that brewing Miami/Philly rivalry - ####, here I go again)
16 months ago, who thought the bulls would have been as good as they now appear to be?
   1531. andrewberg Posted: December 21, 2011 at 05:18 PM (#4021048)
I just can't take it anymore. I mean, I just can't. I can no longer respond, it's just too much. That's my problem, of course, and I'll try to deal with it to myself.


I watched the game. It was a typically sloppy pre-season game without normal rotations, so Philly did look better when they got down to their 9th and 10th guys, because they truly do have depth. Also, Jrue and Turner stood out as solid players. Holiday already was one and Turner seems to be improving.

On the other hand, they were losing in the last three minutes, at home, against one of the 4 worst teams in the league.
   1532. smileyy Posted: December 21, 2011 at 05:27 PM (#4021055)

Lang Greene: Newest Clipper Reggie Evans avg 14.7 rebounds last season when given 30+ minutes. Won't see that much time behind BG, but still impressive about 26 minutes ago


Does Reggie Evans wait until he's been on the court for 30+ minutes before he becomes the greatest rebounder in history? Or are per-36-minute stats too sophisticated for Twitter?
   1533. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: December 21, 2011 at 05:51 PM (#4021086)
K-Mart reportedly bought out his contract, but won't be allowed to play in the states 'til his Chinese team's season is over.

I'm surprised the Bulls got as good as they did as quickly as they did, but they looked really promising last year ... that was why I got into it with Moses about how they should be, they looked to be on the cusp of something special (it helped that Rose blew past my expectations of him).
   1534. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: December 21, 2011 at 05:58 PM (#4021096)
I know everyone thinks their team gets the short end when it comes to national analysis and all that, but...after reading Hollinger's EC projections I'm confused as to how Landry Fields and Iman Shumpert "aren't ready to be Top-7 players on a contending team" and yet Norris Cole "should soak up the minutes taken by [the crappy players on last year's MIA team.]" Otherwise, I'm obviously disappointed in what the stat systems seem to be saying about the Knicks as both Hollinger and SCHOENE have them finishing with either a 35 or 36 win season.
   1535. billyshears Posted: December 21, 2011 at 06:16 PM (#4021122)
I know everyone thinks their team gets the short end when it comes to national analysis and all that, but...after reading Hollinger's EC projections I'm confused as to how Landry Fields and Iman Shumpert "aren't ready to be Top-7 players on a contending team" and yet Norris Cole "should soak up the minutes taken by [the crappy players on last year's MIA team.]" Otherwise, I'm obviously disappointed in what the stat systems seem to be saying about the Knicks as both Hollinger and SCHOENE have them finishing with either a 35 or 36 win season.


There have been many reasons to take shots at the Knicks over the past few years (or decade), but Hollinger seems to relish doing so more than most. My sense is that if he can find a reason to ding the Knicks, he will. A significant part of the rationale for his prediction that the Knicks will finish 7th in the East rests on the notion that the grueling schedule for this season will be particularly unkind to the Knicks. While I think that's a valid point, I'm not sure how you acknowledge the schedule as a concern for older/brittle teams and then come to the conclusion that the Celtics will be 8 games better than the Knicks over a 66 game season.
   1536. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: December 21, 2011 at 06:19 PM (#4021129)
Cole translated well in JH's system and looked good in preseason. I'm not sold on him yet either.

With Fields, it's fair to wonder how fluky last year was - with the 2nd half drop off, lack of pedigree and the high fg% percentages at the rim. Do you remember Adrian Griffin's first year?
Anyway, I'm leaning toward believing in Fields, but as a nice bench piece. (Better than Griffin, at any rate.*)

As for Shumpert ... he's not, barring massive gains over the offseason (speaking as a pessimistic GT fan). He's kind of like Corey Brewer (not what people thought Brewer was, but what he actually was) - if Brewer could put the ball on the floor (and was more guard like / explosive in general), and had less sense offensively. The tools are there and he's a well rounded guy (which I like), but he needs to learn how and when to shoot. (Plus he's *not* a PG, but I don't think you're going to try that too often.) Could be a stud defender, if everything works out.



* to be clear, fields was better last year than griffin ever was - and landry didn't have to come out of the minor league ranks. but, they're somewhat similar players...
   1537. robinred Posted: December 21, 2011 at 06:23 PM (#4021138)
It isn't a Knicks thing; Hollinger likes tweaking big-market fanbases--Lakers, Knicks, and Bulls.
   1538. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: December 21, 2011 at 06:27 PM (#4021142)
As for Shumpert ... he's not, barring massive gains over the offseason (speaking as a pessimistic GT fan). He's kind of like Corey Brewer (not what people thought Brewer was, but what he actually was) - if Brewer could put the ball on the floor (and was more guard like / explosive in general), and had less sense offensively. The tools are there and he's a well rounded guy (which I like), but he needs to learn how and when to shoot. (Plus he's not a PG, but I don't think you're going to try that.)

I don't have a problem with dinging Shumpert (as I sew my custom-made Shump Shump jersey) but I just think it's...peculiar...that Shumpert isn't ready to be a Top 7 player in the same article where Norris Cole, without caveat, should be able to soak up minutes when these two were ranked 19th and 20th by Hollinger going into the draft. I suppose maybe he thinks long-term Shumpert will close some of that gap?

With Fields, it's fair to wonder how fluky last year was - with the 2nd half drop off, lack of pedigree and the high fg% percentages at the rim. Do you remember Adrian Griffin's first year?
Anyway, I'm leaning toward believing in Fields, but as a nice bench piece. (Better than Griffin, at any rate.)


I think last year is as good as Fields will/could ever be and he makes me very uneasy, but, again, I don't see how you can be so confident in the performance of a relatively unheralded rookie in comparison to a guy who did put up a fairly solid rookie campaign at the NBA level.
   1539. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: December 21, 2011 at 06:29 PM (#4021143)
I don't think the Knicks or the Heat can count on Shumpert or Cole being difference makers. They may turn out to be ones, but both were low picks in a bad draft. Fields falls here, too, even though he had a good half season last year (and it does matter a little that it was the first half).

Maybe I shouldn't say the teams can't count on them - they most definitely can - but I'm sure it's hard to project them to make that much of an impact based on college numbers. I can't speak to why Hollinger loves Cole so much - there's plenty of good news coming out of the Heat camp on him, but just as much if not more on Shumpert. If it's another way of saying the Heat's top line talent is better than the Knicks's, that's one thing. So I guess I agree with you NJ, but in the sense that also means I don't expect Fields or Shump to be that good this year.

I'm surprised the Bulls got as good as they did as quickly as they did, but they looked really promising last year ... that was why I got into it with Moses about how they should be, they looked to be on the cusp of something special (it helped that Rose blew past my expectations of him).

And I still don't disagree that some of your specific suggestions would have fit better, but they did do something right and they still have plenty of flexibility to keep making moves (not that they will).

BTW, I meant to comment on this earlier:

It shows Heisley wants to win and will spend a little extra money to do so. Worth something, I think.

#### you, Reinsdorf. (until he proves me wrong...)
   1540. robinred Posted: December 21, 2011 at 06:32 PM (#4021147)
Looking at Hollinger's East, I do think 43-23 is a little optimistic on Boston. Hollinger seemed to base his NY projection on the idea that Anthony, Stoudemire and Chandler will all miss some time. Pelton has Boston at 36-30.

Hollinger had the 76ers at 37-29.
   1541. smileyy Posted: December 21, 2011 at 06:37 PM (#4021155)
I wish I can find that stupid article from ESPN last year that said Bulls fans were stupid for assuming that Rose wouldn't leave Chicago like LeBron left Cleveland.


He still has plenty of time to do that after this contract.
   1542. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: December 21, 2011 at 06:44 PM (#4021162)
Hollinger had the 76ers at 37-29.
again, take the over.
   1543. Eddo Posted: December 21, 2011 at 07:00 PM (#4021175)
It isn't a Knicks thing; Hollinger likes tweaking big-market fanbases--Lakers, Knicks, and Bulls.

Yeah, Hollinger definitely likes to go counter-consensus... and the big-market teams have the most fans.
   1544. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: December 21, 2011 at 07:06 PM (#4021182)
I think I'm going with MIA, LAC, OKC, DEN as my League Pass teams. The last spot is up for grabs and I was thinking one of MIN, WAS, SAC or IND. Have the Wolves set a rotation or let anyone know how much they plan to play each guy this year?
   1545. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: December 21, 2011 at 07:14 PM (#4021188)
Re: Mark Jackson

I wouldn't dismiss him so prematurely. Sure his on-air persona was a bit cartoonish with his reliance on catch phrases and he wasn't all that articulate in between catch phrases but nothing I've seen from his first two games tells me that he's overmatched.


I actually agree w/ this and the rest of your post -- Jackson seemed pretty good last night, good demeanor, settled the team, drew up some fine plays. I guess it's probably true that insight about basketball commentator-style may not necessarily have that much to do with being a coach -- which is, fundamentally, a manager's job. Especially with a team like GS that has the personnel (and history) of a run and gun team. I thought Smart was a pretty good coach though, so I'm not sure this is a huge upgrade. Their problems were/are w/ poor roster design mostly and they could use a bit more talent, not on-court.

I think Reggie Evans, cherry-picked numbers or not, is a fantastic pickup for the Clips, especially since they're not paying him anything. If it weren't for VDN and Sterling and the Clipper Curse I would feel a lot better about this team.

Rose extension: I guess there's not really too much to say here. Obviously a good move for the Bulls, not a surprising one, etc.. Rose naturally said all the right things about it (money is great, but winning is what's important here, will continue to try to get better, etc.). He's an easy guy to root for when it comes down to it, personality- and play-wise both -- naturally drawing moral conclusions about athletes we generally only see one side of is difficult, but he really does seem like a great guy.

NJ: Why Sacramento? They seem like a pretty meh team to me.

If I get League Pass, I will definitely get LAC, OKC, MIN, then probably CHI and SAS.
   1546. andrewberg Posted: December 21, 2011 at 07:15 PM (#4021192)
Have the Wolves set a rotation or let anyone know how much they plan to play each guy this year?


Not really, and I don't think we're going to learn much from the last preseason game either (Rubio and possibly Barea are resting). They basically used last year's starting lineup in game one, but I seriously doubt that the situation is static. Love did get some minutes as the nominal 5, and I think if that continues, whatever the rest of the lineup is will be pretty entertaining.
   1547. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: December 21, 2011 at 07:28 PM (#4021207)
after reading Hollinger's EC projections I'm confused as to how Landry Fields and Iman Shumpert "aren't ready to be Top-7 players on a contending team" and yet Norris Cole "should soak up the minutes taken by [the crappy players on last year's MIA team.]"

And now that I've read Hollinger's piece, I feel this misrepresents his point. One, it doesn't appear he's considering him one of the top 7 guys for the Heat - he just says him and Chalmers should replace Bibby/Arroyo/House minutes, which should be an upgrade - or do you dispute those were 3 of the worst players in the NBA last season? He mentions the Heat only have 3 guys with above average PER projections, but they have multiple other useful parts (mostly veterans who know roles more than a couple of young guys would). I'd say it sounds like he's rosier on Cole than Fields or Shumpert even if he's not, but it's really the Heat aren't relying on Cole nearly as much as the Knicks have to on Fields or Shump. YMMV, of course.

---

I think it's a fair point that Thibs relied heavily on Rose and Deng last year, and that they just won't be able to play as many effective minutes as last season. But I still think the Bulls depth is still much better than the Heat (and remember they have the 2nd easiest schedule based on last year's winning %) that I expect the Bulls to have a better regular season record than Miami even if I agree Miami is a better team and better bet to win the title.
   1548. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: December 21, 2011 at 07:40 PM (#4021222)
NJ: Why Sacramento? They seem like a pretty meh team to me.

It would be solely for Jimmer. It's definitely last out of that group of 4 for me though.
   1549. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: December 21, 2011 at 07:52 PM (#4021242)
Jonathan Givony: Now its official I can finally say: Gustavo Ayon is a STEAL. Smart, tough, active, athletic 4/5. A young Jeff Foster. Well done New Orleans. 2 minutes ago






I think I'm going with MIA, LAC, OKC, DEN as my League Pass teams. The last spot is up for grabs and I was thinking one of MIN, WAS, SAC or IND.
NJ: Why Sacramento? They seem like a pretty meh team to me.
indiana looks terrible, too. WAS could be interesting, but they look like a team that's full of dogs. they have talent, but i got the feeling that if there's any chance for them to be terrible, they're going to be terrible. blatche, lewis, crawford, young, even wall, they're all lacking in focus/intensity/mental faculties/testicular fortitude; they'll give up 15 points in the last 2 minutes of a close game to blow a lead like they did last night; they'll give up runs of 17-2 in the third quarter and turn an 8 point deficit into a 20 point deficit. they're just a team that's built to come up small when the game is on the line.


if you're committed to those first 4, i think golden state, chicago, and minnesota would be the best of the rest, at least as far as entertainment value is concerned. actually, phoenix should probably be in the conversation, too, just because of nash. oh, and there's memphis.

of those, i think i'd go for minnesota, almost solely because of the potential variance in the performance of so many of their players. what kind of player will rubio be? or derrick williams? or beasley? or randolph? how will barea fit into their lineup? what will the defense look like if they play love at the 5 for extended periods of. time? there's just a lot of potential reasons to watch
   1550. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: December 21, 2011 at 09:29 PM (#4021354)
Monta Ellis is getting sued for sexual harassment. This is terrible news for me as I had him in the "first NBA player to come out while playing" pool.

Though, I guess if he were gay, maybe this would come out in the lawsuit.
   1551. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: December 21, 2011 at 09:36 PM (#4021361)
@ESPNSteinLine: Kobe's listed day to day but injured right wrist officially diagnosed as a torn lunotriquetral ligament


He'll play through it and will be fine. It's just what he does.
   1552. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: December 21, 2011 at 11:14 PM (#4021461)
ESPNSteinLine: Just going up on http://t.co/Ir9HrM0O: Rockets and Samuel Dalembert reach terms on two-year contract. Link on way momentarily
   1553. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: December 21, 2011 at 11:33 PM (#4021474)
ESPNSteinLine: Just going up on http://t.co/Ir9HrM0O: Rockets and Samuel Dalembert reach terms on two-year contract. Link on way momentarily
so, they lost out on pau, they lost out on marc, they lost out on nene, they lost out on chuck hayes (one of these things is not like the others), and now they've wound up with sam dalembert and hasheem thabeet.


that's...not good.
   1554. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: December 21, 2011 at 11:54 PM (#4021489)
Simmons EC Standings (cribbed from his podcast so I may be slightly off)

CHI-MIA
NYK
IND
ORL-BOS
ATL
PHI
   1555. Manny Coon Posted: December 22, 2011 at 12:19 AM (#4021504)
yeah, i'm not exceedingly familiar with "advanced" basketball statistics, so i'll take your word about ws/48.

i guess this is kind of an "i watch the games" type of thing. i think both jrue and elton work much better within the framework of the offense than iguodala does, and i think they're both much more effective at that end of the floor.

and i know that iguodala is kind of all-world as a shutdown wing, but elton and jrue are pretty damn good in their own right. now (as opposed to 3 years ago*) i fully appreciate all of the things iguodala does to help the team win, but he's no longer the team's best player, and he no longer deserves to have the ball in his hands at the end of the game with the game on the line.


I don't think best player and guy taking the last shot necessarily need to go together. Nene is quite easily the best player on the Nuggets this year, but I don't think they are going to focus on running isolation plays for him at the end of games when they have guys like Gallonari or Lawson who are better at breaking down a defense. Philly should work in a similar way, Iguodala is their best player because his excellent all around game, but not necessarily their best shot creator.

Saying a team's best player is their best scorer is like saying a baseball team's best player is their best homerun/rbi guy. Often it is true, but it is not always the case.
   1556. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: December 22, 2011 at 01:04 AM (#4021517)
Exactly.

Right after calling him Philly's best player in the team essay of their new annual I referred to upthread, BaskPro noted:

That’s the problem with Iguodala as a cornerstone player. He’s not a shot maker. He’s not the player who can carry a team down the stretch of a hotly contested game. Yet he fancies himself as that kind of star. It’s too bad, because if Iguodala could be convinced to focus sorely on his many strengths, he could be an elite supporting player--a championship third wheel. If Collins can’t get him to accept that role, probably no coach can.

It’s possible, but not certain, that Holiday will be able to push Iguodala down a notch.
   1557. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: December 22, 2011 at 01:22 AM (#4021527)
Saying a team's best player is their best scorer is like saying a baseball team's best player is their best homerun/rbi guy. Often it is true, but it is not always the case.
i don't disagree with that, but in this case, i just think it's the way it is. he had his chance to be the centerpiece of this team, but he just wasn't good enough to be that. at this point, he's just one of the 6 players the team has that could legitimately be the best player on the court on a given night. nothing more, (and for now) nothing less. `

It’s possible, but not certain, that Holiday will be able to push Iguodala down a notch.
i think that's fair, but he has to be given the opportunity. the ball needs to be in his hands in the 4th quarter.
   1558. JJ1986 Posted: December 22, 2011 at 04:35 AM (#4021600)
I didn't watch the Knicks game, but Mike Bibby is out. If he misses even one game, who is the Knicks backup PG? I assume whenever Douglas is off the floor Melo would kickstart the offense, but they need to add someone else.
   1559. andrewberg Posted: December 22, 2011 at 05:16 AM (#4021621)
Wolves won by closing on a 12-0 run. Look out, we might challenge Philly for the crown before all it's said and done.
   1560. Jimmy P Posted: December 22, 2011 at 04:40 PM (#4021805)
And Chauncey Billups and Mo Williams for Ariza? Sure.

Amnesty guys can't be traded until the offseason.
   1561. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: December 22, 2011 at 05:44 PM (#4021896)
Amnesty guys can't be traded until the offseason.

That wasn't an actual trade suggestion.

---

WojYahooNBA: Agent for Chuck Hayes issues statement saying doctors at the Cleveland Clinic examined Hayes and say, "..He does not have a heart problem."
WojYahooNBA: Hayes met with doctors at clinic, and "their recommendation is that the can continue to play professional basketball without any concerns."


So does another team get him nice and cheap now?

---

DeShawn Stevenson to Nets for 1yr, $2.5mil. That's a good deal, even if I'm not a huge fan of his.
   1562. GregD Posted: December 22, 2011 at 05:48 PM (#4021903)
So does another team get him nice and cheap now?
Won't he first grieve the voiding of his contract? I'd assume the Union would take a super-hard line on this.
   1563. Jimmy P Posted: December 22, 2011 at 06:01 PM (#4021922)
Won't he first grieve the voiding of his contract? I'd assume the Union would take a super-hard line on this.

Not if he gets a better deal somewhere else

That wasn't an actual trade suggestion.

Sorry. I was just skimming the page since I didn't read yesterday
   1564. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: December 22, 2011 at 06:09 PM (#4021933)
Won't he first grieve the voiding of his contract? I'd assume the Union would take a super-hard line on this.

Last year, Luther Head signed a 2 year deal with the Hornets that was voided because he failed his physical. His agent called BS and said they'd explore their options of fighting. This is the only detailed article I found (on a quick google search). He ended up signing a 1 yr deal in Sacramento for less money, and I never heard anything more about it. Now, $20mil is a lot more than $2.3mil, so maybe there's more to this claim. But I'm guessing since that deal was never officially finalized, he'll up signing a 1 year deal for really cheap (unless a team with space gives him a better offer, but there aren't many out that besides Sac*) and he'll go back on the market next year.

*The tweets about the Stevenson signing in NJ say they still have $9.5mil in cap space left, but after signing KHump they might not want another backup big and probably aren't interested in a long term deal since they're trying to save space to sign Howard or trade for him during the season. I bet Hayes would help them though. Houston just signed Dalembert yesterday, maybe they would have taken him back.
   1565. andrewberg Posted: December 22, 2011 at 06:29 PM (#4021956)
Wolves, especially ra, wants Hayes. He's the security blanket. Wouldn' be surprised is they swooped in, particularly w ith how perk and Darko have played
   1566. andrewberg Posted: December 22, 2011 at 06:30 PM (#4021957)
Wolves, especially ra, wants Hayes. He's the security blanket. Wouldn' be surprised is they swooped in, particularly w ith how perk and Darko have played
   1567. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: December 22, 2011 at 06:51 PM (#4021975)
Hayes would be a perfect fit for my Clippers.

The problem in the Hayes situation, I would think, is that no team is going to want to put him on the court because the liability, should something bad happen, could be substantial. If his situation is such that he really can continue to play without concern, a team would want to get any potential liability concerns waived up front before putting him on the court- and all that has to run through the NBAPA and will require a ton of different doctor visits.

I would think there is some procedure in place for this because guys have had some serious condition before- Turiaf comes to mind- so if there's really no legitimate medical concern, he probably gets a deal close to what Sac was going to offer him.
   1568. Manny Coon Posted: December 22, 2011 at 06:53 PM (#4021978)
That’s the problem with Iguodala as a cornerstone player. He’s not a shot maker. He’s not the player who can carry a team down the stretch of a hotly contested game. Yet he fancies himself as that kind of star. It’s too bad, because if Iguodala could be convinced to focus sorely on his many strengths, he could be an elite supporting player--a championship third wheel. If Collins can’t get him to accept that role, probably no coach can.

It’s possible, but not certain, that Holiday will be able to push Iguodala down a notch.


Krzyzewski got him to take that role with excellent results for Team USA, but it is probably easier for him to defer to someone like Kevin Durant than a less proven player like Holiday, Williams or Turner, hopefully on one of those guys will be able to establish themselves as consistent option, but so far I don't think they have. If a team builds a roster where Iguodala is the go to scorer that is more of a failure of the team than Iguodala.
   1569. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: December 22, 2011 at 07:01 PM (#4021988)
If a team builds a roster where Iguodala is the go to scorer that is more of a failure of the team than Iguodala.
welcome to the last 10 years of the sixers franchise.
   1570. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: December 22, 2011 at 07:34 PM (#4022021)
Maybe the Nets will want to inquire about Hayes now:

Al_Iannazzone: Uh oh. #Nets center Brook Lopez broke a bone in his right foot. He'll have surgery tomorrow.
   1571. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: December 22, 2011 at 07:58 PM (#4022045)
BobCooney76: Jrue Holiday and Lou Williams both limited at practice today. Holiday with left achilles' strain, Williams strained hamstring. Day to day
that's probably not a good thing, considering the sixers are only carrying 4 guards going into the season.
   1572. JC in DC Posted: December 22, 2011 at 08:17 PM (#4022058)
that's probably not a good thing, considering the sixers are only carrying 4 guards going into the season.


How are they going to fit all the crutches on the float?
   1573. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: December 22, 2011 at 08:19 PM (#4022060)
Interesting article on MIA's new offense. This line jumped out at me because I feel it was something we discussed on one of the past iterations of this thread:
Spoelstra realized that the Heat's playing style and roster didn't need to be confined by convention. No, the traditional principles of coaching become obsolete when three superstars, two of whom are perennial MVP candidates, decide to play together. And the Heat's trio is largely interchangeable, especially with Bosh adding a 3-point shot and LeBron polishing his post game.

"The more that we've tried to think conventionally in terms of guys playing just a specific position, it restricted us a little bit," Spoelstra said. "We can put pressure on teams to adjust to us."
   1574. andrewberg Posted: December 22, 2011 at 08:28 PM (#4022069)
Btf at 30k feet!

Do the nets have this year's pick? If they somehow lose Brooke for enough of this year to get a top 5 pick in a good lotto then keep d will and add Howard (plus Brooks, Morrow, hump), things could turnaround quickly.
   1575. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: December 22, 2011 at 08:38 PM (#4022081)
NY Post also had a bit about the NYK gearing up for a run at Kenyon Martin.
   1576. Famous Original Joe C Posted: December 22, 2011 at 09:11 PM (#4022102)
NY Post also had a bit about the NYK gearing up for a run at Kenyon Martin.

Can also imagine the Heat interested in a guy like him.
   1577. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: December 22, 2011 at 09:21 PM (#4022118)
NY Post also had a bit about the NYK gearing up for a run at Kenyon Martin.

He can't play until his team in China's season is over, so maybe not until March. Same for the other guys there - Brooks, Chandler, Smith (and honestly, they all could help the Knicks and I'd probably say Martin would help them the least, assuming no STAT injury). I wonder if they'll sign for the minimum or there's some out there than can offer them more*. Chandler is a RFA, I believe, so odds are he'll end up in Denver. And if they sign for the minimum, what teams would appeal to them most - the most PT so they can earn a big deal or the chance at a ring?

*Like the Knicks and their $2.5mil exception (pro-rated).
   1578. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: December 22, 2011 at 09:34 PM (#4022131)
Interesting article on MIA's new offense. This line jumped out at me because I feel it was something we discussed on one of the past iterations of this thread:

I like the article, and am curious to see if it works like imagined (and if it sticks). But man, Haberstoh is just effusive in his praise - and that's not a shot at him calling Bosh a superstar - Chip Kelly, famed coach? Luminary Tom Crean? And using a play where Hedo is guarding LeBron as an example of the offense in action? It's hard to institute this drastic of a change in offensive philosophy in this short camp/pre-season. So it'll be a work in progress all season. As a fan of basketball, I want them to have a fun, exciting, and open offense. As a Bulls fan, I'd prefer they revert to their old ways and would rather see more hero shots. But yes, a lot of us said this last year, so while Spo will get credit if it works we can also say he shouldn't have stuck to his guns as much last year.

BTW, he also talks about Bosh's 3pt shot and increased bulk. Which one - or will either - changes his game or his role in the offense more, or is he really best suited to continue his mid-range game and fill in the gaps as the third guy?
   1579. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: December 22, 2011 at 09:52 PM (#4022154)
BTW, he also talks about Bosh's 3pt shot and increased bulk.

Bosh and STAT seem to have done the same offseason training. I wonder who gets more rebounds and hits more 3s.
   1580. Jimmy P Posted: December 22, 2011 at 10:00 PM (#4022166)
Chip Kelly, famed coach? Luminary Tom Crean?

Really? That's a tad hyperbolic. I guess they're famed in getting really close to winning it all once.
   1581. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: December 22, 2011 at 10:07 PM (#4022175)
If they somehow lose Brooke for enough of this year to get a top 5 pick in a good lotto then keep d will and add Howard (plus Brooks, Morrow, hump), things could turnaround quickly.

Somewhat OT, but am I alone in really liking Doron Lamb?

EDIT: I don't mean to imply I think he's a Top 5 pick...though I do think he'll be a better pro than Harrison Barnes.
   1582. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: December 22, 2011 at 10:09 PM (#4022186)
$2.5mil exception (pro-rated).

I was under the impression that the 2.5 mil exception would remain 2.5, regardless of whenever in the season it was used. (I have nothing concrete to base this on so I could be wrong)
   1583. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: December 22, 2011 at 10:20 PM (#4022196)
I was under the impression that the 2.5 mil exception would remain 2.5, regardless of whenever in the season it was used. (I have nothing concrete to base this on so I could be wrong)

Everyone's salaries are pro-rated to the number of games being played. So it's $2.5mil for 82 games, and that would be prorated to how many they're actually signed for. Otherwise, what's the incentive for them to sign before the playoff roster deadline?
   1584. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: December 22, 2011 at 10:27 PM (#4022209)
[1583] I see. I thought the built-in incentive would be on the team side where teams would want to have guys accustomed to their system sooner rather than later.
   1585. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: December 22, 2011 at 10:38 PM (#4022229)
Some interesting stuff in this piece by Jonathan Abrams about a week at Nets practice. Some of the more interesting stuff/quotes:

Johnson, himself a former point guard, says that Williams needs to be more vocal in communicating plays. "My point guards just don't have enough bass in their voice," he says.


That's funny, coming from Avery. Also, the article should really do a better job of identifying all the Williamses on this team.

The coaches' meeting is shorter with no scrimmage to review or rehash. Johnson goes over the day's itinerary and cannot recall the name of a drill he would like to use. "We used to call that the Chinese fire drill," Barrise says. "But then we got Yi and we couldn't call it that anymore."


Heh.

"I don't know him well enough at all," Carlesimo says. "I was thinking he was a 3. To me, mismatches are bullshit. I vote for playing him at 3, and even bump D.J. But you tell D.J., 'This doesn't mean the other guy's a 3 and you're not.' We could use D.J. at 4 and alleviate the crowding the first couple of days and teach Shawne the position. But god, I'm hoping if he plays for us, he's playing a 3."


Here they're talking about Shawne Williams. I think most of us would disagree with the bolded part.

Deron Williams walks in with Bobby Marks, the assistant general manager. Williams, who often eats his lunch in King's office, carries a tray of a sandwich and chips. Williams and King are building a tight bond that will be crucial to retaining him. Williams often says that he will stay and headline the team's move to Brooklyn, as long as the team is capably built. He eschewed signing the contract extension offered to him in recent weeks. The most he could sign for now is an added two years and about $39 million. If he stays and signs with the Nets, his deal could be for five years and around $100 million. Before he signs, the roster needs major reconstructing, and Williams and King often discuss moves during their lunch.


Nets fans will like reading that.

Lopez is gravitating toward every rebound he can find on his way to 11, and Johnson cannot even remember if he had that many in a single game a year earlier.


It's nice when something that seems obvious to the casual fan is a point of emphasis for the coaches.
   1586. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: December 22, 2011 at 10:40 PM (#4022236)
I see Micky Arison has come out as another of the 5 owners to vote against the CBA. We got Cuban before, anyone else see anything on any of the other 3? I'm guessing MJ, but we've been told Gilbert wasn't one.
   1587. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: December 22, 2011 at 10:42 PM (#4022240)
I thought the built-in incentive would be on the team side where teams would want to have guys accustomed to their system sooner rather than later.

Right, but for the players it's more work for less money - or a lower rate. We'd probably see more veteran players wait out the beginning of the year before deciding to play if they got paid for a full year but only had to participate part of the time.
   1588. Ignatius J. Reilly Posted: December 22, 2011 at 11:11 PM (#4022276)
Nets fans will like reading that.


If there are any. . .

EDIT: Also, Shawne Williams is much better as a stretch 4 than a 3.
   1589. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: December 23, 2011 at 12:20 AM (#4022345)
Marc Stein: Hayes has not formally announced intention to rejoin Kings but one source says SAC expected to increase previous offer slightly to clinch it 4 minutes ago

Peter Stringer: The Celtics have waived forward Michael Sweetney and guard Gilbert Brown. about 7 minutes ago

Ronald Tillery: Griz have rescinded $2 million qualifying offer for center Hamed Haddadi, who is still in Dubai about 38 minutes ago

   1590. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: December 23, 2011 at 01:08 AM (#4022355)
Haddadi has been having visa problems for a while. Maybe they're actually insurmountable. That would be depressing.
   1591. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: December 23, 2011 at 01:32 AM (#4022371)
David Locke: Jazz trade Memo Okur to New Jersey for a future 2nd round pick and a trade exception. now
Jason Jones: Petrie said he would address at "some point in the future" why the Kings voided Hayes contract. 3 minutes ago

Brett Pollakoff: Suns announce that they have waived Mickael Pietrus. Team roster now stands at 14. about 7 minutes ago

   1592. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: December 23, 2011 at 01:35 AM (#4022374)
Just came to post that STEAGLES. Kind of sad to see Memo traded, but this could be a good chance for him to show he can still play. At least the Jazz have a pretty big trade exception again.
   1593. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: December 23, 2011 at 02:05 AM (#4022384)
Edit - redundant
   1594. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: December 23, 2011 at 03:02 AM (#4022423)
Another deal for the nets that doesn't go past this year. And cost them nothing. Surprised jazz got nothing for him.
   1595. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: December 23, 2011 at 03:18 AM (#4022436)
No one cares, but... my centers in Fantasyball are Lopez and Bynum. Gotta cut Harden or George to land another one (which would probably be Okur).

Grizz supposedly still hoping to sign Haddadi.

So, where does AK go? Stay in Russia (my understanding is that he wants to come back, that he's been donating his CSKA salary as is)?
   1596. robinred Posted: December 23, 2011 at 04:36 AM (#4022467)
Note to Tom Cervo:

FWIW, Hollinger/Lowe very high on start to Jazz rebuild. I myself am not so sure, but those guys know more than I do. Jazz has clear plan--almost always a +.

DK,

Lopez and Bynum? I will say that I think Brown system/Odom dump will help Bynum's numbers, with all usual Bynum-related caveats. For one thing, he will be closing games and his MPG will go up from 28 to about 35. He had a big game last night. With Kobe out, he was basically first option, and he gave Jordan a lot of trouble on the blocks. When Bynum is on the floor and on his game, he is a handful.

Always kind of liked Okur's game--but feel like he may be one of those guys whose limited athleticism leads to premature cliff-dive. Hope I'm wrong. Know a Turkish dude, former student, who loves Hedo/Memo.
   1597. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: December 23, 2011 at 05:08 AM (#4022480)
That's more or less why I got Bynum - like I said earlier, I like him this year.

Agree on premature cliff dive, but - it's the waiver wire, whatchagonnado. My next best bets are Dalembert, Robin Lopez, and DeAndre. Lopez could be a good play while Gortat is out - and Petro is the #2 in NJ, which is why I might take Okur.
   1598. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: December 23, 2011 at 05:15 AM (#4022483)
By the way, I just did a real crude extrapolation of Ayon's projection based on the one for Biyombo (forgetting the 7 (model uses 7, anyway) year age difference, which kinda matters) that's just Biyombo projection * Ayon #s (last 2 seasons) / Biyombo ACB #s. Didn't control for a load of stuff, in fact - this was q'n'd pencil and paper while my last work thing of the night wraps up. Anyway (and, to reiterate, this was both optimistic and crude), he looked good:

Per 32 min: 13.6 pts, 8.5 reb, 2.1 ast, 1.4 stl, 2.0 to, 1.3 blk, 3.4 pf, 60% fg in 10.2 att, 64% ft in 2.3 fta

Even after discounting that some, it's a good start. His PER in the ACB last season was 28, this year 30.4, per draftexpress - not shabby in a very good league.
   1599. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: December 23, 2011 at 05:21 AM (#4022485)
FWIW, Hollinger/Lowe very high on start to Jazz rebuild. I myself am not so sure, but those guys know more than I do. Jazz has clear plan--almost always a +.
they have kanter, favors, jefferson, and millsap. the rarest commodity in the NBA is a talented big man, and the jazz start their rebuild with a surplus of them. plus they have kirilenko's bird rights, and now the trade exception.

but unfortunately for them, they have ####-all in the backcourt and on the wings, so they're still miles away from being relevant.
   1600. tshipman Posted: December 23, 2011 at 06:54 AM (#4022503)
FWIW, Hollinger/Lowe very high on start to Jazz rebuild. I myself am not so sure, but those guys know more than I do. Jazz has clear plan--almost always a +.


Really? What's the plan? Honestly I'm a bit lost.

Lopez could be a good play while Gortat is out


Gortat is out? ####.
Flip.
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