Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Friday, December 02, 2011

NBA THREAD DECEMBER: POST-LOCKOUT

With the lockout over, I estimate that there may be more than 10-12 Primates who want to talk about the NBA, and with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: fractional reserve banking, and Tim Tebow.

rr Posted: December 02, 2011 at 12:26 AM | 3254 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: general

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 18 of 33 pages ‹ First  < 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 >  Last ›
   1701. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: December 27, 2011 at 06:36 PM (#4023908)
A Miles Simon sighting! (He is the color guy.)


I think they prefer to be called "African Americans" these days.
   1702. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 27, 2011 at 06:47 PM (#4023916)
What a strange feeling of...contentment and trust. No doubt something horrible will soon happen.

It's impossible to trust anything with Dolan in charge and with Isiah permanently lurking. Dolan's a nutjob nonpareil.
   1703. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: December 27, 2011 at 07:21 PM (#4023927)
i just walked by a starbury store. an actual, still operating location. special: 2 pairs for $18.
   1704. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: December 27, 2011 at 08:14 PM (#4023955)
Random thought from last night’s OKC-MIN game

I really enjoy that Russell Westbrook and Derrick Rose can be so similar in terms of physical tools and statistical output and yet, stylistically, they couldn’t be more different. Rose uses his abilities go over, under, around defenders in this graceful fashion and rarely shows emotion while Westbrook is going through the defense and looks as though he’s got a chip on his shoulder. (The refs let Westbrook get away with a ton of elbows/assorted dirty space clearing maneuvers last night, it was really bizarre)
   1705. smileyy Posted: December 27, 2011 at 08:17 PM (#4023956)
Weren't the Starbury's supposed to be affordable in the first place? I can give him credit for that.
   1706. The Essex Snead Posted: December 27, 2011 at 08:29 PM (#4023964)
The OKC announcers (specifically the PBP guy) spent way too long talking about Westbrook's "Jack Nicholson in The Shining" face, and what trouble that meant for the other team. They were also talking about OKC locking down on the defensive end just as Minnesota was scoring off a great Rubio pass and/or a blown assignment. In other news, it seems like the OKC broadcast team's transformation from eager dudes watching a young team gradualy achieve excellence into Grade A nigh-unlistenable homers of the Hastings / Elliott persuasion is complete, tho (as I kinda mention) that's mostly on the PBP end; as the color guy, Grant Long just seems to nod along to whatever's being said to him.
   1707. The Essex Snead Posted: December 27, 2011 at 08:41 PM (#4023968)
In other slightly less harumphy (& as-yet unmentioned?) news / tidbits:

- Both Buckets (AKA Marcus Thornton - 27 pts on 9-13, 4-7 3PT) and DeMarcus Cousins (12 pts, 11 reb, and only 2 TOs and 4 fouls!) did well against the Lakers last night
- Portland took 97 shots yesterday, which (given the changes they made in the off-season) hopefully means Nate McMillan is willing to let these dudes run up & down the court
- the idea of Stephen Jackson being coached by Scott Skiles brings a smile to my face (& possibly some ulcers to Skiles' belly)
- Sebastian Telfair's on the Suns!
   1708. steagles Posted: December 27, 2011 at 08:46 PM (#4023975)
- Portland took 97 shots yesterday, which (given the changes they made in the off-season) hopefully means Nate McMillan is willing to let these dudes run up & down the court
yeah, they were running.

with the kind of defense they're capable of playing, i think they're at the top of the list of dangerous teams in the west. camby, aldridge, thomas, and wallace are just fearsome on the frontlines.
   1709. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: December 27, 2011 at 08:57 PM (#4023983)
with the kind of defense they're capable of playing, i think they're at the top of the list of dangerous teams in the west. camby, aldridge, thomas, and wallace are just fearsome on the frontlines.


I mean, any team that can beat the Sixers has to be considered a championship contender, that's for sure.
   1710. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: December 27, 2011 at 09:06 PM (#4023988)
Weren't the Starbury's supposed to be affordable in the first place?


Yeah, the hook when they were first pitched was that he couldn't afford fancy player-endorsed shoes when he was a kid, so he wanted his brand to be affordable for everybody.
   1711. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: December 28, 2011 at 12:24 AM (#4024081)
Interesting. Who knows how much truth there is to this possibility, but it's something...
   1712. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: December 28, 2011 at 12:37 AM (#4024086)
Moses: I wouldn't rule it out.

Fesenko to GSW
   1713. PJ Martinez Posted: December 28, 2011 at 01:40 AM (#4024103)
That'd certainly be interesting re: Dwight and Adidas if true, but I don't see it. Here's the money quote from Woj's piece:

And as one high-ranking sneaker executive says, “Adidas simply cannot have its two signature players on the same team in the same market. … Derrick is the face of that market, owns that market, and Adidas can’t possibly have maximum bang for its buck with Dwight there.

“It serves Adidas no purpose. They need them as rivals in competing markets.”


Does that make sense to anyone? Not me. If anything, having them together on the Bulls, one of the league's signature franchises, seems like a great outcome for Adidas. And that anonymous quote is the closest thing to "evidence" Woj provides. The Business Insider post just rehashes the Woj piece and adds nothing else. (I should maybe add that I am unimpressed with Woj as journalist, and that probably makes me further inclined to discount this sans compelling evidence that goes beyond one anonymous quote.)
   1714. smileyy Posted: December 28, 2011 at 01:43 AM (#4024107)
If anything, having them together on the Bulls, one of the league's signature franchises, seems like a great outcome for Adidas.


But not all that much marginally larger than having the reigning MVP already pitching Adidas in Chicago.
   1715. PJ Martinez Posted: December 28, 2011 at 02:03 AM (#4024119)
But not all that much marginally larger than having the reigning MVP already pitching Adidas in Chicago.

Seems to me that Howard playing for a great team in a large market would be better for Adidas than him playing for a pretty good (possibly, but not definitely, very good) team in Brooklyn, say, even if they already have that particular market cornered, thanks to Rose -- because the visibility and the cachet would make for a great platform from which they could market him worldwide.
   1716. smileyy Posted: December 28, 2011 at 02:08 AM (#4024122)
Yeah -- the hypothesis put forth seems to heavily value local marketing.
   1717. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: December 28, 2011 at 02:32 AM (#4024131)
IWeren't the Starbury's supposed to be affordable in the first place? I can give him credit for that.


I bought the Starbury's for something like $15 and they were ripped within two weeks. I guess you get what you pay for.
   1718. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: December 28, 2011 at 03:00 AM (#4024138)
I later went in and got a pair for $5 - I'll keep people posted. :)
Fesenko deal was for 1.07m, I think.
   1719. smileyy Posted: December 28, 2011 at 03:40 AM (#4024147)
I think this is the Heat team we all wanted to see (or didn't want to see, if you're the rest of the NBA).

LeBron throwing the lob to Wade, then getting in for the tip after was pretty silly.
   1720. andrewberg Posted: December 28, 2011 at 03:51 AM (#4024153)
Love took 15fts in the first quarter tonight. First half double double but he has rebounded a few of his own misses and milwaukee is making beaucoup jumpers (even bogut) and leads by a dozen.
   1721. smileyy Posted: December 28, 2011 at 03:55 AM (#4024155)
I have no idea why the offense is running through Chalmers.
   1722. PJ Martinez Posted: December 28, 2011 at 04:37 AM (#4024168)
Why did Orlando trade Bass for Davis again? (I mean, I'm very glad they did, but I'm totally baffled. Was there some salary thing that helped make that happen?)
   1723. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: December 28, 2011 at 04:42 AM (#4024171)
Why did Orlando trade Bass for Davis again?

Reports have said that Davis and Howard are friends, and therefore maybe trading for him was a way to placate Dwight as a last-ditch effort to get him to want to stay. That's all anyone has been able to come up with that makes any sense.
   1724. smileyy Posted: December 28, 2011 at 04:43 AM (#4024172)
Orlando wanted to get worse? No, I don't get it either.
   1725. smileyy Posted: December 28, 2011 at 04:46 AM (#4024173)
How do you have LeBron James and Chris Bosh and not attack the zone from the high post?
   1726. smileyy Posted: December 28, 2011 at 04:52 AM (#4024178)
From basketbawful:


The Houston Rockets: When are Daryl Morey's revolutionary moneyball concepts going to turn the Rockets into anything more than a mildly interesting overachiever mired in mediocrity? No, really. When?

Every Houston loss always feels about the same. Scrappy. Hangs in there. Gets beat.


Sounds like a BBTF-run baseball team.
   1727. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: December 28, 2011 at 04:59 AM (#4024180)
I'll go with "when his franchise cornerstones aren't cut down in the primes of their careers by injury" or "when the league doesn't disallow a trade designed to bring in a new cornerstone."



On an unrelated note, Cole seems a fitting addition to the Vinegar Trio. I'll have no problem rooting against him.
   1728. andrewberg Posted: December 28, 2011 at 05:19 AM (#4024190)
Not surprisingly, I love Cole.
   1729. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: December 28, 2011 at 05:32 AM (#4024197)
Jazz and Lakers both look awful on offense. It sounds like Favors looked good before getting in foul trouble (sigh), but I don't know because the Celtics-Heat game was still on.

Kanter looks like a good rebounder and very physical/strong, but he's had two good looks right under the basket and failed to convert either time.
   1730. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: December 28, 2011 at 06:30 AM (#4024212)
The Jazz are putrid. There's no excuse for playing like this in your season opener against a team on its 3rd game in 3 nights.
   1731. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: December 28, 2011 at 06:48 AM (#4024215)
"World Peace would not be denied inside..." I love it.
   1732. tshipman Posted: December 28, 2011 at 06:52 AM (#4024216)
"World Peace would not be denied inside..." I love it.


This is the beauty of Metta World Peace. You can be annoyed at Ron Artest, but how can you hate World Peace? I just want World B. Free to come out of retirement and play a charity game with MWP.

Imagine if Charlie Ward were still playing . . . "Ward stops World Peace!"
   1733. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: December 28, 2011 at 07:00 AM (#4024219)
#TheLakersAreSoWhite is currently trending worldwide on Twitter. Just thought you all should know this.
   1734. JC in DC Posted: December 28, 2011 at 02:06 PM (#4024243)
Hey - is the bookmarking gone? I can't bookmark this and it's not listed as bookmarked.
   1735. Famous Original Joe C Posted: December 28, 2011 at 03:27 PM (#4024268)
The Celtics are about as good as the Knicks, and not as good as the Heat. Seems about right.

I'll be at the home opener Friday against Detroit.
   1736. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: December 28, 2011 at 03:38 PM (#4024273)
[1735] No solace in the fact that you've played without Pierce?
   1737. Famous Original Joe C Posted: December 28, 2011 at 03:51 PM (#4024284)
[1735] No solace in the fact that you've played without Pierce?

Well, sure, a little. Maybe they win that Knicks game, maybe the Heat game is closer. It's a huge upgrade from Pavlovic to Pierce, obviously - Sasha is not a good NBA player right now. I suppose I'm not letting two games affect too much what I think of the team. I still think they will either win the Atlantic or come close (I like the Knicks more since the Davis signing and Green heart surgery than I did at the time of my original predictions), and be a tough out for someone in the 2nd round (if mostly healthy). Basically, I haven't seen anything that has shocked me, good or bad, about the Celtics so far.

Rondo has been the silver lining to the 0-2 start. Well, him and Bass, but seeing Rondo average 26/7/13 over his first two is very encouraging. He's been a lot more aggressive in both taking the ball to the basket (11.5 FT/game) as well as shooting his jumper, however flawed, in rhythm. If Rondo can fashion himself into a bit more of a scorer, it makes the Celtics a little more dangerous, in that it could help limit those periods when their offense is struggling.
   1738. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: December 28, 2011 at 04:46 PM (#4024308)
Not surprisingly, I love Cole.

He looked really good last night. They can play up the fact that he played in college 4 years all they want, but the obvious counter to that is both he wasn't good enough to leave early and he was only at Cleve St, so it's not like he has a ton of relevant* experience. Like all rookies, he'll go through spells that will make it obvious he's a rookie. And it's to be seen how he'll handle the pressure of expectations or the playoffs or the extreme schedule (I wonder about the rookie wall in a shortened, but compressed season). Is it me though, or does he have a really low release on his jump shot? I bet he struggles to get that off against tighter defense - the C's did play off him a bit (also, double teaming).

*He didn't play against many guys that he'll see again in the NBA, IOW the level of competition argument to counter the argument about playing lots of games.

EDIT: And I didn't see anything last night that would make me dislike him.
   1739. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: December 28, 2011 at 04:55 PM (#4024311)
Was checking stats and saw that LeBron hasn't taken a 3 yet this year. Conscious change in style? When was the last time he went consecutive games without taking a 3?
   1740. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: December 28, 2011 at 06:08 PM (#4024374)
Wade hasn't taken a 3 either. However, they have taken 16-23 ft jumpers.
   1741. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: December 28, 2011 at 06:16 PM (#4024383)
So you're questioning their decision making?

I saw a tweet about how efficient LeBron has been - 63pts on only 33 shots. I'm noticing he did take over 100 fewer 3pt attempts last season than his last season in the Cleve - at a similar percentage - which was the 2nd fewest of any year in his career (he only took fewer in his rookie season). I do wonder how many of those were bailout shots at the end of the shot clock, or attempts at the hero shot in close games; shots that he doesn't need to take as many of now. Or he just may have realized it's not the best shot for him to take.
   1742. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: December 28, 2011 at 06:20 PM (#4024386)
I think LeBron and Wade avoiding taking so many 3s is probably a good thing for MIA, I just hadn't read/heard/seen anything about this amidst all the buzz about the team's new offense and it seems to be a drastic change (SSSA)
   1743. Famous Original Joe C Posted: December 28, 2011 at 06:43 PM (#4024404)
Hey - is the bookmarking gone? I can't bookmark this and it's not listed as bookmarked.

Part of the site updates happening, will be fixed soon.
   1744. andrewberg Posted: December 28, 2011 at 06:57 PM (#4024412)
The biggest tactical difference to my eyes in Miami has been that they are forcing the defense to rotate then slashing instead of taking long jumpers. If you have multiple slashers, the guys protecting the rim have a lot of work to do getting from side to side, and you certainly aren't going to have much luck on Wade or Lebron if you are even slightly out of position. I guess the faster pace of getting from D to O is probably a bigger change, but that's one I have noticed in their half court sets.
   1745. smileyy Posted: December 28, 2011 at 09:03 PM (#4024534)
I just hadn't read/heard/seen anything about this amidst all the buzz about the team's new offense and it seems to be a drastic change


The announcers mentioned this in the game last night. IMO, its a huge improvement in the Miami offense. They'll shoot 3's at some point, but I like the avoidance of them to see what their offense looks like without it.
   1746. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: December 28, 2011 at 09:49 PM (#4024563)
[1745] I agree, thanks for the info on the announcers. I was watching the game in a bar so I didn't catch that.

I checked and this is the first time since LeBron's rookie year that he's gone consecutive games without taking a 3. His rookie year he had one 3 game stretch and a 2 game stretch.

EDIT: This includes playoffs
   1747. Jimmy P Posted: December 28, 2011 at 10:07 PM (#4024572)
Why did Orlando trade Bass for Davis again?

Otis Smith. Who knows why he does what he does
   1748. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: December 28, 2011 at 10:39 PM (#4024589)
Otis Smith. Who knows why he does what he does


I'm rooting for a revelation that Howard has been de facto GM all along and a Comic Sans Gilbert-style rant from Otis Smith when he leaves.

Alternate joke: we shouldn't let ex-players run teams due to their limited intellectual capital.
   1749. andrewberg Posted: December 28, 2011 at 11:06 PM (#4024615)
Alternate joke: we shouldn't let ex-players run teams due to their limited intellectual capital.


Hey, it worked for Steve Kerr, Geoff Petrie, John Paxson, Danny Ferry, Pat Riley, Mitch Kupchak, and Danny Ainge! Wait, there's probably some unintended subtext here. Can't put my finger on it.
   1750. madvillain Posted: December 28, 2011 at 11:58 PM (#4024674)
It must be hard for fans of the Timber Wolves. Your team drafts two lottery players -- Rubio and D. Williams. Meanwhile, you have retreads, in the form of Luke Ridnour and Michael Beasley, starting and eating their minutes. Beasley, through two games, has managed to launch 40 shots, connecting and getting fouled enough to score 39 points in the process. Now that's the sort of player you want blocking your lottery pick.

I have Williams, Love and Rubio on my fantasy team so I will be following this situation carefully. Hopefully they are trying to "showcase" B-Easy for a trade...

___________________________

I couldn't watch the GS/CHI game but looking at the brutal box score for Rose (1-8 on 3s), I'm thinking he needs to stop thinking "outside in" and start attacking the basket. I'm sure Rose knows what he has to do, in fact he has said as much already -- looking to be more efficient.

Someone on the Bulls Internets brought up the stat that Chicago is 52-53 when Rose scores under 20 points and something like 80-40 when he scores over 20. Derrick might be trying to be more of a facilitator, but the fact is he's not a Chris Paul like creator and Chicago doesn't have that great of scoring outside of Rose. They need him to score by attacking the basket.

In general, it's been a #### start for the Bulls. It looks like last year all over again, where it took them 10 games or so to hit their stride. Joakim Noah annoys me with is off season conditioning. He's never in top shape to start the year and his entire game is based on working hard. Boozer, for whatever his problems, is in great shape. The spacing with Noah and Boozer has been absolute horse ####. I'm beginning to wonder if Thibs needs to shake up his staff and bring in someone a bit more creative offensively.


_______________________

My (not exactly unique) fantasy strategy of overloading on PGs and PFs seems to be working. Plus, I've managed to grab Landry and Camby off the waiver wire. I dodged a real bullet with that Steph Curry ankle injury and my $16 draft bid for Marcus Thornton looks to be a stroke of genius. My Rubio/Williams experiment has gotten mixed results (see above). Most weeks I should have Steals, FT%, Assists, 3s and A/T ratio wrapped up. If I can compete in points and rebounds, look out league.
   1751. andrewberg Posted: December 29, 2011 at 12:19 AM (#4024696)
I have Williams, Love and Rubio on my fantasy team so I will be following this situation carefully. Hopefully they are trying to "showcase" B-Easy for a trade...


Yeah, it's 2 games after an extremely short camp under a new coach. I think it is a combination of trying for some form of continuity until the team can gel a little, showcasing both for possible trades, and deferring to the vets until Adelman breaks the guys down and builds them back up in his own system. I will start to be frustrated if the usage isn't changing 35 games into the season (we'll see if my patience actually lasts that long).
   1752. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: December 29, 2011 at 12:31 AM (#4024706)
I couldn't watch the GS/CHI game but looking at the brutal box score for Rose (1-8 on 3s), I'm thinking he needs to stop thinking "outside in" and start attacking the basket. I'm sure Rose knows what he has to do, in fact he has said as much already -- looking to be more efficient.

I wrote a bit about it at the bottom of the last page. The 1 for 8 isn't good, but I think most of those attempts were in the 4th - or at least after the Warriors had pulled away and the Bulls were trying to come back. That doesn't excuse him for not playing inside or forcing the action more - he also didn't have his first FTA on the year until the 2nd half (none in the LAL game). You're right, he's already said he needs to be more aggressive and I expect him to do that tomorrow in Sacramento.
   1753. madvillain Posted: December 29, 2011 at 02:41 AM (#4024784)
I've changed my mind about Irving. I now think he'll at least by a top 10 PG and possibly in the 2nd tier behind Paul/Rose/Williams.

John Wall is looking more like a bust however.
   1754. Maxwn Posted: December 29, 2011 at 02:47 AM (#4024788)
We're about to find out if Jeremy Pargo can play in the league. Mike Conley rolled his ankle on Kendrick Perkins' foot about 15 seconds into the game.

The Grizzlies offense has been raggedy as hell so far this year. Didn't go inside to Randolph enough and just looked generally out of sync. Started slow against OKC tonight but have closed out the first quarter a bit stronger. Hopefully they get back into the swing of it quicker than they did last year.
   1755. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: December 29, 2011 at 02:58 AM (#4024794)
I think it is a combination of trying for some form of continuity until the team can gel a little, showcasing both for possible trades, and deferring to the vets until Adelman breaks the guys down and builds them back up in his own system.
I think it's asking too much for two rookies to step in after a short camp to start for an NBA team. They're getting minutes, though, and Rubio's been on the floor during crunch time for both games. The Wolves shouldn't be in a hurry to get these guys in the starting lineup. Experience and exposure are what's important, and those guys can get both coming off the bench.
   1756. smileyy Posted: December 29, 2011 at 03:10 AM (#4024801)
Is anyone watching the Miami game? I'm curious as to how they're stinking it up so bad against the Bobcats.
   1757. madvillain Posted: December 29, 2011 at 03:15 AM (#4024804)
I think it's asking too much for two rookies to step in after a short camp to start for an NBA team.


I agree in theory, but Rubio should be playing 30+ every night. He's not some raw rookie but a guy with oodles of big time international experience. As for Williams, I would again agree if the guy in front of him wasn't a complete bum.
   1758. JC in DC Posted: December 29, 2011 at 03:40 AM (#4024821)
I've changed my mind about Irving. I now think he'll at least by a top 10 PG and possibly in the 2nd tier behind Paul/Rose/Williams.

John Wall is looking more like a bust however.


So, after 2 games, Irving's a top 10 pg, and after a season where he averaged 16ppg and two games this season, Wall's a bust? Aren't both of these premature judgments?
   1759. Maxwn Posted: December 29, 2011 at 03:42 AM (#4024822)
Well, Randolph is struggling a bit, but Jeremy Pargo is kicking Westbrook's ass. Did not expect that.
   1760. madvillain Posted: December 29, 2011 at 03:57 AM (#4024831)
So, after 2 games, Irving's a top 10 pg, and after a season where he averaged 16ppg and two games this season, Wall's a bust? Aren't both of these premature judgments?


New to the Internet? Snark aside, Most of my posts are stream of consciousness type stuff, occasionally I'll do an analysis style post, but mostly it's my thoughts during the games. I'm not claiming to be an expert. I watch a lot of NBA, a hell of a lot more than MLB, where I just follow the White Sox. Thus, I often make snap judgements -- if not here, where?
   1761. madvillain Posted: December 29, 2011 at 04:01 AM (#4024833)
The Pistons / Cavs game was so bad the guy streaming it just changed it to the Clippers game. Haha.
   1762. Ignatius J. Reilly Posted: December 29, 2011 at 04:12 AM (#4024847)
Speaking of snap judgments--Lebron's looking pretty sharp.

Still no 3's.
   1763. steagles Posted: December 29, 2011 at 04:16 AM (#4024851)
48-34 for the sixers going into halftime against the suns.

favorite things so far:
andre iguodala looks as good as he ever has. 12 points, 5 assists, 4 steals for the half. and best of all (or at least most surprising) he's 6/10 from beyond the arc so far this season, and he's actually looked pretty good in doing it.

vucevic actually looked like an NBA player his first time on the floor. 4 points, 3 rebounds in 8 minutes.

steve nash: 4 points, 0 rebounds, 1 assist, 4 turnovers, and 3 fouls on 2/7 shooting in 11 minutes.

oh, and when the suns went into the zone to try to change the pace of the game, meeks and iguodala nailed 3's on consecutive possessions to blow the lead out to 15.
   1764. smileyy Posted: December 29, 2011 at 04:25 AM (#4024856)
I wonder if LeBron is finding a new offensive approach that requires less energy, rather than his previous strategy of beating people off the dribble from the top of the key.

Early prediction: leads the league in scoring, runaway MVP.
Optimistic prediction: he holds a Jordan-esque vendetta against Rose and Durant for being pretenders to his MVP award.
   1765. steagles Posted: December 29, 2011 at 04:35 AM (#4024863)
and i believe that was a 19-0 run to start the 3rd quarter.
   1766. madvillain Posted: December 29, 2011 at 04:40 AM (#4024870)
and i believe that was a 19-0 run to start the 3rd quarter.


Yea, what a massacre. I was in PHX for xmas and was listening in on their home opening broadcast. There was a bunch of excitement re their new defensive mindset. Haha.
   1767. Tripon Posted: December 29, 2011 at 04:47 AM (#4024873)
Its okay, because Tyler Hansbrough will still give you the HANSBROUGH FIST.

Also, Tyler Hansbrough and Tim Tebow has never been in the same room.
   1768. madvillain Posted: December 29, 2011 at 04:49 AM (#4024876)
Steph Curry "resting" his ankle tonight and not playing. Jackson says he's "going to give it time to heal". SOB.
   1769. Maxwn Posted: December 29, 2011 at 04:57 AM (#4024879)
Grizz go down by 3 to OKC. Started off very poorly but played much better down the stretch. Durant was awesome and they went 10-25 from the arc. Grizz shot too many 3s and had a couple of stretches where they got away from the big men for too long.

Westbrook was ####### terrible. He went 0-13 from the field and just got completely outplayed by Jeremy Pargo.

After getting forced into starter's minutes with Conley's ankle injury, Pargo finished 6-13 with 15 pts and 7 asts Edit: Oh and only 1 turnover. Not bad really. Qualitatively, he seemed to do a very good job of getting into the paint and either looking for a shot or dishing it off and making things happen. I'm impressed with him thus far.

From what I've seen so far, the Thunder are definitely the class of the West.
   1770. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: December 29, 2011 at 05:02 AM (#4024881)
Jazz look like the worst defensive team ever right now. At least they'll get some more young talent since they look like they'll be competing for the #1 pick.

Even when Jefferson is good, he's awful. The next time he challenges a shot at the basket will be the first.

If any team wants Bell please just let him go. He doesn't shoot anymore, isn't a good defender, and is just taking up developmental minutes from Burks and maybe even Hayward.
   1771. Quaker Posted: December 29, 2011 at 05:13 AM (#4024885)
I've only seen about half of Utah's minutes so far--have the 2nd half waiting for me on DVR--but I like Kanter. I think he's going to be a solid 14-10 guy.

They really need a dynamic wing though.
   1772. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: December 29, 2011 at 05:19 AM (#4024887)
Burks looks pretty good, though it's garbage time. I think Hawyard could be a good outside threat, but needs a good defensive wing to go with him.
   1773. steagles Posted: December 29, 2011 at 05:31 AM (#4024889)
this was a much more enjoyable game than the one on monday.


hawes (i know. really) and iguodala really filled up the statsheet. 9, 11, 3 assists, 2 blocks, 2 steals for hawes and 15, 4, 6 assists, and 4 steals for iguodala.

elton brand played 20 minutes--they just didn't need him to play anything more than that. 6 players in double figures (iguodala and holiday led the team with 15 a piece, though it took holiday 15 shots to get there), plus hawes with 9 and 11 and vucevic with 6 and 6.


jrue holiday with another bad game, but he didn't throw the ball away 4 times in the 1st quarter, so it was a major improvement from monday. he left the game in the 4th quarter after tweaking his knee, though. that could be a devastating injury for the team, since they're only really carrying 3 guards (plus evan turner).


steve nash finished with 4 points, 0 rebounds, 1 assist, 5 turnovers, and 4 fouls on 2/11 shooting in 17 minutes. that's gotta be the worst line he's put up in the last decade.

somehow the suns finished above 40% shooting. to give a more accurate (or at least favorable) representation of their performance in this game, their starting lineup (nash, dudley, hill, frye, gortat) shot a combined 7/35.
   1774. JuanGone..except1game Posted: December 29, 2011 at 11:39 AM (#4024953)
If any team wants Bell please just let him go. He doesn't shoot anymore, isn't a good defender, and is just taking up developmental minutes from Burks and maybe even Hayward.


Remember when teams were fighting over who signs Raja last season? Utah seems to have won and then immediately lost that fight.

Also, caught some of the Clippers game and I do think that the hype is going to overrate their results. Paul seems to have regressed defensively over the last couple of seasons, Griffin needs to not be such a ball stopper and Chauncey is a big net negative. They really should have played hardball and held out for Bledsoe instead of Gordon in that trade. Clips will make the playoffs but I'm thinking more 6/7 than 4/5 seed.
   1775. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: December 29, 2011 at 02:18 PM (#4024978)
The NYK-GSW game was unbelievably bad. Knicks had a looooot of really bad turnovers, Melo and STAT missed shots they normally make, Brandon Rush played as though he was partaking in an illegal pre-draft workout for the NYK, and Chandler committed a bunch of stupid fouls. GSW hit a bunch of shots they had no business hitting, especially in the 4th Q, but there's no excuse for a well-rested Knick team to lose to them, especially without Steph Curry.
   1776. The Essex Snead Posted: December 29, 2011 at 02:56 PM (#4024987)
For the record (not that anyone that cares isn't already aware of this), but one of the aforementioned T-Wolf "bums" (Beasley) shot 45% last year (36% from 3pt) and averaged 19.2 ppg w/ 5.6 rebounds. He's not the most efficient player in the world, & he should never take more shots than Kevin Love (if it can be helped), but you could do a lot, lot worse. Like the Nets' current front court.

I'm all for locking Luke Ridnour in a ripped-roof Metrodome during a blizzard, though.

On a personal note, I'm so glad my fantasy team superstars -- Russell Westbrook & Amare Stoudamire -- had completely terrible games yesterday. There, but for the grace of DeMar DeRozan & Z-Bo, goes my autodrafted mess of a squad.
   1777. Bitter Mouse Posted: December 29, 2011 at 03:37 PM (#4025007)
I'm all for locking Luke Ridnour in a ripped-roof Metrodome during a blizzard, though.


I don't know what it is, but even when he is going well there is something irritating about Ridnour's game. I just flat don't like him.

Even when Jefferson is good, he's awful. The next time he challenges a shot at the basket will be the first.


I remember this feeling well. Good riddance.
   1778. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 29, 2011 at 03:52 PM (#4025024)
The NYK-GSW game was unbelievably bad. Knicks had a looooot of really bad turnovers, Melo and STAT missed shots they normally make, Brandon Rush played as though he was partaking in an illegal pre-draft workout for the NYK, and Chandler committed a bunch of stupid fouls. GSW hit a bunch of shots they had no business hitting, especially in the 4th Q, but there's no excuse for a well-rested Knick team to lose to them, especially without Steph Curry.

The Knicks looked positively putrid.

I remain highly skeptical that builiding your franchise around Carmelo (I Stopped the Ball and the Ball Won) Anthony will ever really work. The Knicks aren't materially better with him than they were without him.
   1779. Jimmy P Posted: December 29, 2011 at 04:52 PM (#4025068)
So, after 2 games, Irving's a top 10 pg, and after a season where he averaged 16ppg and two games this season, Wall's a bust? Aren't both of these premature judgments?

Not having seen Wall play this year and just looking at his numbers, if that's a bust I think it's a bust every team would take. The guy is a little hamstrung, who's his best teammate? Rashard Lewis? Washington is probably the biggest collection of knuckleheads in the league.
   1780. steagles Posted: December 29, 2011 at 05:10 PM (#4025086)
basketball-reference has the sixers as the 3rd best team in the NBA (by measure of SRS), behind only san antonio and portland. the only team in the eastern conference who's within shouting distance is atlanta, but i think they're only up there because they've played two teams (new jersey and washington) who are absolutely horrible.
   1781. andrewberg Posted: December 29, 2011 at 06:20 PM (#4025140)
and i believe that was a 19-0 run to start the 3rd quarter.


I texted a gambling friend that Phi -1.5 was Vegas's way of giving away money. I don't know if he took the advice, but that was an easy one in a sea of toss-ups. Phoenix is not a very talented team, they're far enough away from having a really good coach that the difference is going to start to show up, their best player has to be thinking about other things, and why would they think they can beat anyone?

Also, Tyler Hansbrough and Tim Tebow has never been in the same room.


Whitlock has been calling him Tebowsborough.

Westbrook was ####### terrible. He went 0-13 from the field and just got completely outplayed by Jeremy Pargo.


He appears to be up in his head right now. Hard to say without talking to him or knowing him, but it wouldn't be surprising if there was some distraction, or perhaps it's just pressure coming down on him (all the postseason complaints and stuff). This would be a good time for Brooks or Cheeks to have a heart to heart with him.

Also, caught some of the Clippers game and I do think that the hype is going to overrate their results. Paul seems to have regressed defensively over the last couple of seasons, Griffin needs to not be such a ball stopper and Chauncey is a big net negative.


Yes and no. I said the same thing about Paul (plus their dire need for any sort of wing defender) and nobody agreed with me. On the other hand, Billups is learning a new role after a whole career, so he deserves some time, and Griffin is just starting his second season. He needs to adjust to new teammates. Some of the problem is bad coaching, and that will continue to dog them, but they also just lost to a team that won 61 games last year and might be better (dayum do Splitter and Anderson look better!). You say 6/7 rather than 4/5 seed, but that could literally be one or two games in the standings.

For the record (not that anyone that cares isn't already aware of this), but one of the aforementioned T-Wolf "bums" (Beasley) shot 45% last year (36% from 3pt) and averaged 19.2 ppg w/ 5.6 rebounds. He's not the most efficient player in the world, & he should never take more shots than Kevin Love (if it can be helped), but you could do a lot, lot worse.


He put up half of those numbers playing on a badly sprained ankle and was much better before. Against OKC this year, he was a little out of control. He played much more restrained against Milwaukee, though. Like I said, you aren't going to beat Milwaukee in their building if Jennings and Bogut are making jumpshots. The team is too good defensively. Beasley gets a lot of #### for never passing (from me too), but I think the fact that he gets the ball on the wing on clearouts so much contributes to it. Hopefully we will see less of that as the offense develops.

Washington is probably the biggest collection of knuckleheads in the league.


Have you seen Sacramento's entire roster of shoot first (and second, and third) guys?

The Knicks aren't materially better with him than they were without him.


At their worst, no. At their best? For a couple of quarters on xmas, that team could have beaten anybody. They're better.

basketball-reference has the sixers as the 3rd best team in the NBA (by measure of SRS), behind only san antonio and portland. the only team in the eastern conference who's within shouting distance is atlanta, but i think they're only up there because they've played two teams (new jersey and washington) who are absolutely horrible.


Get the hose.
   1782. Jimmy P Posted: December 29, 2011 at 06:44 PM (#4025173)
For the record (not that anyone that cares isn't already aware of this), but one of the aforementioned T-Wolf "bums" (Beasley) shot 45% last year (36% from 3pt) and averaged 19.2 ppg w/ 5.6 rebounds. He's not the most efficient player in the world, & he should never take more shots than Kevin Love (if it can be helped), but you could do a lot, lot worse.

But I think the stats are very misleading here. He always outshoots Love. Last year, he averaged 3 more shots per game. In that OKC game, he chucked up 27 shots. The bigger issue isn't the number of shots, it's the number of dumb shots. And the lack of ability to get his teammates involved. One of the things about the NBA is that even on bad teams, someone's going to put up numbers. I think Beasley is that guy - the guy who will put up superficially good numbers but always be on horrible teams. He's just not a smart player.
   1783. steagles Posted: December 29, 2011 at 06:56 PM (#4025189)
Get the hose.
top 10 in o-rating and d-rating, FG% and opponent's FG%.


it's just 2 games, but it's better than them sucking like a celtic.
   1784. andrewberg Posted: December 29, 2011 at 07:06 PM (#4025194)
it's just 2 games, but it's better than them sucking like a celtic.


You're taking this "shortened season" thing waaaaay too far.
   1785. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: December 29, 2011 at 07:47 PM (#4025237)
Forget it, he's on a roll.
   1786. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 29, 2011 at 07:58 PM (#4025255)
At their worst, no. At their best? For a couple of quarters on xmas, that team could have beaten anybody. They're better.

The bad games count, too. I'm not seeing any real evidence that they're any better -- or, for that matter, that Denver's any worse. Zach Lowe had Melo at number 20 overall and that's what he is. You don't gut your roster for the 20th best player in the league, and turn the franchise over to him.(**)

Melo/Amare is essentially a Haywood/McAdoo redux (though the swingin' 70s and their temptations made Spencer fall off a cliff that Melo won't).

(**) And in the broader sweep, 2 lost seasons and a bunch of draft picks/players sent out, all to wind up with your top guy being 19th best in the league.
   1787. andrewberg Posted: December 29, 2011 at 08:18 PM (#4025273)
And in the broader sweep, 2 lost seasons and a bunch of draft picks/players sent out, all to wind up with your top guy being 19th best in the league.


I hear what you're saying. I think there are a lot of externalities beyond what Melo does on the court. Very practically, Chandler (who hasn't fully acclimated yet) and Davis (who we haven't seen in this lineup) would not have come to NY if not to join this somewhat overrated superstar. More ephemerally, the team has a great deal more cultural chache than it did 2 years ago when they were tanking to see if they could get any free agents to take their money. That might not translate into wins and losses, but I think it probably has a noticeable effect on the bottom line in terms of merch, ratings, and even ticket prices. Even if that doesn't matter to the hardcore fan, it probably makes it worth it for ownership to "gut the roster" of less marketable guys like Gallo and Chandler in order to get to that point.

Also, while Gallo is helping Denver right now, that team's success is not predicated so much on gaining him or losing Melo. They are better because Lawson is breaking out as a star, their front office shrewdly nabs undervalued talents who do a few things really well, and George Karl is a good coach who has the kind of dynamic roster that he gets the most out of. Maybe they wouldn't be much better with Melo on board, but I chalk that up mostly to the system and the quality of depth that he left behind.
   1788. andrewberg Posted: December 29, 2011 at 08:34 PM (#4025296)
Whitlock also pulling a STEAGLES on the Pacers:

As of right now, the lone threat to the Heat in the East is my Indiana Pacers.

I'm not drunk. I'm not being a shameless homer. The Pacers could be the second-best team in the East. Larry Bird has the only roster that can go athlete for athlete with the Heat. Paul George, Danny Granger, David West, George Hill and Lance Stephenson are not afraid of LeBron James and Dwyane Wade. Roy Hibbert is a matchup problem for the Heat. Tyler Hansbrough and Jeff Foster will go push for shove with Udonis Haslem and Joel Anthony.

I'm not a fan of Darren Collison at the point. The Pacers are the only team I can see pushing Miami to six or seven games in the East.


He might not be totally wrong.
   1789. smileyy Posted: December 29, 2011 at 08:58 PM (#4025324)
"Not being afraid of them" is different than "not having them dunk on your head". Though I agree with the overall sentiment, just not the hyperbole.

The Celtics are older, the Bulls will regress, the Knicks are the Knicks (not a compliment), Orlando has worse personnel. There's plenty of room for the Pacers to play well.
   1790. rr Posted: December 29, 2011 at 09:13 PM (#4025338)
Bird has done a nice job with the Pacers; they, like Memphis and Denver, and perhaps Philadelphia, represent a good go at the "pretty good at every spot" plan, and they are young. And, any team with a big, decent center represents a matchup issue for Miami.

OTOH, they have beaten the Raptors and the Pistons,and neither game was decided by 20+. I would like to see them at 20-10 or so with a solid win over the Bulls or even the Magic before we start talking about taking on the Heatles. I am not sure anyone on the Pacers is as good as Chris Bosh (Granger might be, I guess).
   1791. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: December 29, 2011 at 09:57 PM (#4025378)
Paul George, Danny Granger, David West, George Hill and Lance Stephenson are not afraid of LeBron James and Dwyane Wade.


It's true, in a playoff series, you need someone who is going to wildly flip out and deck an opponent far more valuable than they are, earning a suspension but knocking out one of the opposing team's stars.

I can't believe this guy has a job. He should at the very least be in jail.

The Bulls are the second best team in the East and are going to be fine. Small sample, people, small sample.
   1792. smileyy Posted: December 29, 2011 at 10:10 PM (#4025386)
Maybe the Pacers can draft Yancy Gates, and they can share punch-throwing tips they learned at Cincinnati.
   1793. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: December 29, 2011 at 10:13 PM (#4025390)
"Not being afraid of them" is different than "not having them dunk on your head".

After watching last night's game, I think the Heat may want to rethink that offensive strategy.

On the topic of the Pacers, I love that Paul George is now 6'10''
   1794. steagles Posted: December 29, 2011 at 10:34 PM (#4025397)
Maybe they wouldn't be much better with Melo on board
i'm not a huge carmelo fan, but they did win 50 games each of the 3 years before last. and they haven't finished below .500 since the year before he was drafted.

it's not like they struggled to win 30 when he was putting up empty numbers. they won with him. maybe they didn't win enough, but they won a lot.
   1795. smileyy Posted: December 29, 2011 at 10:39 PM (#4025402)
I only followed the game on gamecast last night -- how were the Heat so bad? Were they unable to get offensive pressure opportunities off of turnovers and misses? They've looked pedestrian (as they did last year, perhaps improved) against a set halfcourt defense, though.
   1796. steagles Posted: December 30, 2011 at 02:21 AM (#4025516)
i know he played his college ball in philly, but i just really dislike delonte west.
   1797. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: December 30, 2011 at 03:07 AM (#4025533)
West is a really useful player ... when his head's on right*. He's a near perfect backup - does a little of everything decently (and defends well) so you can team him w/ a waterbug point, a power two, or anything in between.

I, otoh, really dislike Lance Stephenson.

So - how long 'til Celtics fans go crazy for McIlvaine II yet - once they hit .500? (I mean this neither as insult or as small sample size theater - I've long liked Stiemsma a bit more than Jimmy Mac).

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think Paul George goes in the "win" column for Hollinger's draft rater.


* no, that's not that often.
   1798. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: December 30, 2011 at 04:06 AM (#4025572)
1. Greg Ostertag is now in the D-League. (so is ricky davis)
2. I think Greg Ostertag ate too many peeps.
   1799. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: December 30, 2011 at 04:20 AM (#4025575)
After watching them for 6 minutes, I feel safe saying the Blazers were hugely underrated by almost everyone.
   1800. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: December 30, 2011 at 05:21 AM (#4025593)
The Knicks look really good in the early going against the Lakers.
Page 18 of 33 pages ‹ First  < 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Guts
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogFraley: Millions in lost revenue from ticket sales will impact Rangers payroll | Dallas Morning News
(28 - 12:19am, Sep 15)
Last: Curse of the Andino

NewsblogOT: NFL/NHL thread
(8035 - 12:17am, Sep 15)
Last: zenbitz

NewsblogKapler: Baseball’s next big competitive edge
(33 - 12:09am, Sep 15)
Last: SoSHially Unacceptable

NewsblogOT: Politics, September, 2014: ESPN honors Daily Worker sports editor Lester Rodney
(2380 - 11:42pm, Sep 14)
Last: Ray (RDP)

NewsblogChris Sale’s Season for the Ages
(21 - 11:35pm, Sep 14)
Last: Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes

NewsblogSports Bog: Fans Switch From Skins to Nats
(43 - 11:30pm, Sep 14)
Last: Curse of the Andino

NewsblogDave Kreiger: New Baseball Hall of Fame voting rules
(11 - 11:26pm, Sep 14)
Last: Cargo Cultist

NewsblogOMNICHATTER 9-14-2014
(122 - 11:21pm, Sep 14)
Last: DKDC

NewsblogOT: The Soccer Thread, September 2014
(184 - 11:02pm, Sep 14)
Last: ursus arctos

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread - September 2014
(249 - 9:35pm, Sep 14)
Last: andrewberg

NewsblogOT August 2014:  Wrassle Mania I
(148 - 9:33pm, Sep 14)
Last: andrewberg

NewsblogThe skills Rangers' Jon Daniels wants in new manager/partner - does Tim Bogar measure up? | Dallas Morning News
(3 - 7:39pm, Sep 14)
Last: Rough Carrigan

NewsblogMiami man charged with smuggling Cuban baseball star to U.S.
(1 - 6:35pm, Sep 14)
Last: Joe Bivens, Minor Genius

NewsblogOT: September 2014 College Football thread
(237 - 6:00pm, Sep 14)
Last: Gold Star - just Gold Star

NewsblogRon Washington Departed Over Legal Issues
(70 - 3:57pm, Sep 14)
Last: A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose)

Page rendered in 0.8842 seconds
53 querie(s) executed