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Friday, December 02, 2011

NBA THREAD DECEMBER: POST-LOCKOUT

With the lockout over, I estimate that there may be more than 10-12 Primates who want to talk about the NBA, and with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: fractional reserve banking, and Tim Tebow.

rr Posted: December 02, 2011 at 12:26 AM | 3254 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: general

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   201. Famous Original Joe C Posted: December 07, 2011 at 03:46 AM (#4008792)
   202. steagles Posted: December 07, 2011 at 04:44 AM (#4008851)
Good analysis of rest days in schedule
that's pretty cool.


new jersey plays 4 teams who will be on the tail end of a back-to-back-to-back. charlotte plays 28 games against teams on the tail end of a back-to-back. indiana plays 14 teams coming off multiple days of rest.


miami only plays 13 teams on the 2nd night of a back-to-back, and none at all on the tail end of a back-to-back-to-back.

boston is 18 and 0.

chicago is 22 and 3. chicago also plays 3 teams who will be on the tail end of a 5 games in 6 day stretch. neither miami nor boston have even 1 of those.
   203. tshipman Posted: December 07, 2011 at 05:06 AM (#4008886)
Uh . . . shouldn't someone point out that even if the Lakers got CP3 and Howard, they'd have absolutely nothing at the 3 and 4 (probably stuck with Artest since no one wants him). In addition, that team would have zero spacing or 3 pt shooting. It might not make them all that much better than they were last year (depending on how the new CBA impacts ring chasers).
   204. steagles Posted: December 07, 2011 at 05:29 AM (#4008915)

Uh . . . shouldn't someone point out that even if the Lakers got CP3 and Howard, they'd have absolutely nothing at the 3 and 4 (probably stuck with Artest since no one wants him)
assuming the deals would be odom and bynum for paul and gasol for howard, they'd have paul and bryant and howard, and then blake and fisher and barnes and metta. then ebanks and goudelock.

my guess would be that they'd start fisher at the 2, move kobe to the 3 (which might not work out too well, since i think he dropped 20 lbs. over the offseason), and use metta at the 4 (or sign a pick and pop specialist--think novak, mcroberts, cook--who doesn't rebound or play defense, with the assumption that dwight howard would be able to clean up on the defensive boards and protect the paint well enough that the PF wouldn't kill the defense).


anyway, there are reports about curry, udoh, and thompson being sent to NOH for paul (sans contract) and then GS signing chandler. paul-ellis-wright-lee-chandler could be an interesting lineup, but there's not a whole lot of depth beyond that.
   205. rr Posted: December 07, 2011 at 05:34 AM (#4008925)
It might not make them all that much better than they were last year


It isn't going to happen, and I will concede that they would still need to fill out the rest of the roster with crap (like Miami did) but if they actually had a chance to do it, they would have to do it, without a second thought.

The ESPNLA guys did a 5/5 on this today, and Dave McMenamin did a good job of explaining why the Nets make the most sense for Howard.

I am already on record multiple times as saying that OKC makes the most sense for Paul, but based on what I am reading, they aren't even in the mix for him. I would kind of like to see him on the Clippers, but I assume NO would want Gordon back, which might be a problem.

I got a really nice email from David Stern today.
   206. rr Posted: December 07, 2011 at 05:35 AM (#4008926)
anyway, there are reports about curry, udoh, and thompson being sent to NOH for paul (sans contract) and then GS signing chandler.


Bucher is already excited about this.
   207. madvillain Posted: December 07, 2011 at 06:37 AM (#4008970)
This schedule analyzer is pretty damn sweet.

Charlotte has a legit beef. Their schedule is brutal. A league high 12 "4 games in 5 nights" and a league high 23 "back to backs". Damn. And I see from Steagles' post they get a lot of opponents on the back to backs too, that should be great basketball.

The Bulls got off pretty easy.

edit: coke to Joe C.
   208. tshipman Posted: December 07, 2011 at 06:44 AM (#4008973)
I got a really nice email from David Stern today.


Are you an NBAtv subscriber or something?


It isn't going to happen, and I will concede that they would still need to fill out the rest of the roster with crap (like Miami did) but if they actually had a chance to do it, they would have to do it, without a second thought.


Yes, of course. You get arguably better and inarguably younger. You have to make that decision.
   209. rr Posted: December 07, 2011 at 07:15 AM (#4008997)
Yes, of course. You get arguably better and inarguably younger. You have to make that decision.


The thing is is that the team doesn't really have much of anything now beyond Bryant, Odom, Gasol and Bynum. So, I would rather have Paul and Howard than Odom, Gasol, and Bynum + whatever by a wide margin.

Many (not here) are assuming the Lakers have a good shot at Howard. I myself am "wondering" rather than "assuming."

Are you an NBAtv subscriber or something?


I "subscribed" to League Pass when they had the freebie, and have decided this year to ditch cable since I don't watch TV series anymore and in turn to give League Pass Broadband a try. So Stern has not gotten my money through that particular outlet--yet. I guess he was just being friendly.

I think that GS deal outlined above may be about as good as it gets for NO, unless they can work a deal with someone else (like the Clippers) who will take Okafor to get Paul. The GS-NO deal makes some sense: Cuury would make a nice new "face of the franchise" guy for NO; adding Paul and Chandler would make the big splash the new owners in GS need. Bay Area sports (Giants, 49ers, Raiders) are in upswing cycle; Paul/Chandler would give the Warriors a real, and needed, media boost.
   210. andrewberg Posted: December 07, 2011 at 07:19 AM (#4008998)
Okc might be quietly involved. They're usually very good at playing things close to the vest- remember the Perkins trade.
   211. andrewberg Posted: December 07, 2011 at 07:22 AM (#4009001)
Also, recall that the clippers have the wolves' lotto pick next year, unprotected. That's one of the better assets available for a rebuild.
   212. rr Posted: December 07, 2011 at 07:42 AM (#4009011)
Also, recall that the clippers have the wolves' lotto pick next year, unprotected. That's one of the better assets available for a rebuild.


Good point. The headline on ESPN says Jordan and Gordon are not part of the Clippers' first offer. If that is the case, if I am Demps, I am a lot less interested in having that conversation.
   213. Norcan Posted: December 07, 2011 at 07:55 AM (#4009015)
It may just be coincidental and/or the result of the difficulty of squeezing in so many games in an unbalanced schedule, but two of the biggest reputed "hawks" in the CBA negotations appear to have gotten shafted by the schedule. There's Jordan shown earlier. And Sarver doesn't get any home games against the biggest draws in the East, the Heat, Knicks, Celtics and Bulls. I really hope this is intentional and by order from Stern. It wouldn't make me stop disliking him but it would make me appreciate him more. Actually, it would make me like him.
   214. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: December 07, 2011 at 09:46 AM (#4009023)
Bay Area sports (Giants, 49ers, Raiders) are in upswing cycle


<throws chair>
   215. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: December 07, 2011 at 11:12 AM (#4009032)
It may just be coincidental and/or the result of the difficulty of squeezing in so many games in an unbalanced schedule, but two of the biggest reputed "hawks" in the CBA negotations appear to have gotten shafted by the schedule. There's Jordan shown earlier. And Sarver doesn't get any home games against the biggest draws in the East, the Heat, Knicks, Celtics and Bulls. I really hope this is intentional and by order from Stern. It wouldn't make me stop disliking him but it would make me appreciate him more. Actually, it would make me like him.

When I quickly glanced at the Knicks schedule and decided it wasn't that bad, I thought favoritism might be involved. It'd be interesting to see the schedules ranked and compare that to what we've heard of that owner's CBA behavior. I doubt Stern/the league could get away with something that obvious though.
   216. steagles Posted: December 07, 2011 at 05:39 PM (#4009201)
Kurt Helin: Report: Grant Hill leaning toward Knicks, not Suns http://dlvr.it/zQmFm #PBT #NBA now



also, this came up in the jose reyes thread, and i think it's interesting re:dwight howard. do you think it's better for fan morale to just let a star leave as a free agent (think lebron james) versus actually trading him away mid (or pre) season (think carmelo).

on the one hand, if you let the player walk, you're probably not getting much of anything (although, if you work a sign and trade, you can get a sweet trade exception) in return, but you can at least say that you did everything to keep him.

on the other hand, if you trade him, you're basically admitting that there was something about your situation (the team being ####, the city being undesirable, the fans turning on the player) that led the player to not want to re-up with your organization (if not just flat demanding to be traded somewhere else).


just looking at the two above examples, because cleveland let lebron walk (admittedly, in a sign and trade), they sucked, and they got themselves a top 5 pick as a result. and because they used the trade exception they got in return for lebron to eat an awful contract, they actually got themselves a 2nd top 5 pick.

meanwhile, denver traded carmelo and got back in return felton (who they flipped for andre miller), chandler (who was an impending free agent who signed in the CBA instead of opting to play somewhere that would have allowed him to return to the NBA in case there was a season), mozgov (who seems to be just a guy), and gallinari (who may be a player if he can up his usage, but is not a guarantee to do it).


i'm not really sure where i come down on this right now. i guess the situation the team is in would factor in to my opinion. if orlando lets dwight howard walk at the end of the year, they're an absolutely awful team in 2012-13. but being an awful team means getting a shot at the lottery, which is a good thing.

but if orlando trades him for pau gasol (to pull 1 example), they're probably not gonna implode, but they're not gonna compete, either. they'd be in that awful friend zone.

that's not even considering the fan backlash if they trade him.

i think they might be better off keeping him, at least for now.
   217. andrewberg Posted: December 07, 2011 at 05:54 PM (#4009226)
I think the fan backlash will last as long as the losing. Once your team is back to being good, the fans will stop caring about whether you "did everything you could" to keep the former star in town. I think it is probably more often the case that you can get back to being good faster by trading the player for appreciating assets (very young guys and picks), but sometimes it might actually be better to let him walk so it will be easier to bottom out and get another crack at the lotto (the Cleveland plan, even though they won with LAC's ping pong ball).
   218. steagles Posted: December 07, 2011 at 07:19 PM (#4009359)
nikola vucevic won something called the "week 4 eurocup MVP". i'm assuming that's good.

oh, and there's this:

Kevin Arnovitz: NBA owners complaining about shortened schedule = Arsonists complaining about ash on their white pants. about 17 minutes ago
   219. rr Posted: December 07, 2011 at 07:51 PM (#4009416)
I think it is probably more often the case that you can get back to being good faster by trading the player for appreciating assets


That worked pretty well for Memphis, even though Crittenton didn't work out (and may go to prison). I don't think there is a right answer to the question.

In Orlando's situation, I think you can make a pretty good case for keeping Howard.
They have the new building and the ASG there this year, among other factors.

What I would be watching for if I were Otis Smith is what Grant Hill does. If Hill leaves Phoenix, I think Nash will go to Sarver and ask out. If Smith could then orchestrate a three-way to land Nash, he could then pair Howard up with Nash (a very synergistic on-court pairing), which would revitalize the fanbase. If they got to February and felt like they were not good enough to run with MIA, CHI, and BOS, then Smith could put both Howard and Nash on the market.
   220. madvillain Posted: December 07, 2011 at 10:47 PM (#4009628)
TMAC is a Hawk.

Screamin' Steven was wrong, go figure. I once sat next to SAS on a Spirit flight from Detroit to NYC. We landed in La Guardia and is common there, had to sit on the tarmac until the gate cleared. During the 30 minute delay SAS called no less than 5 people. 4 of them sounded like relatives/wellwishers/hangerson and 1 of them was his agent. It took all my willpower to not scream out "cheese doodles!".
   221. rr Posted: December 08, 2011 at 02:19 AM (#4009786)
The Lakers have apparently agreed to a deal with Jason Kapono. One-year deal for the vet minimum. It makes some sense--he is cheap floor-stretcher. But they already have MWP, Barnes and Ebanks, none of whom is good, but all of whom do more for you than Kapono does. This probably means that Goudelock starts in the DLeague.
   222. rr Posted: December 08, 2011 at 07:40 AM (#4009929)
Not that I expect anyone cares, but I personally wouldn't sign Kapono, although I can see why they would. I can think of other guys (backup 5s) I would rather they use the vet minimum on.

Simmons' post on the Paul situation has some pretty good stuff. He says GS makes the most sense and based on what we know now, I agree. He also talks about "spending time with" the new GS owners "at (the) Sloan (conference)", "soiling himself" over the thought of Paul with the Clippers and goes off on Ainge for his handling of the Rondo trade rumors.
   223. Tripon Posted: December 08, 2011 at 07:47 AM (#4009931)
Kapono back in L.A.? I find that funny for some reason. Also, I find Bill Simmons odd. The superstar shopping for his team is something he rallied against, and now he's gleefully reporting on it.
   224. rr Posted: December 08, 2011 at 08:03 AM (#4009940)
I find that funny for some reason.


Too bad UCLA can't sign him. They need him more than the Lakers do.

In fairness to Simmons, he posted a few days ago (I quoted it here) that the obsessive coverage of the Howard/Paul/James/Anthony sagas, while it sucks/ed for fans of NO/ORL/CLE (DEN to a lesser extent IMO), is actually not a bad thing for the NBA in general, as it keeps the message boards buzzing etc.

But, like I said, Simmons is a big-market/superstar/greatness! guy--who also wants major restrictions on big-deal FAs and supports the owners on CBA issues. Odd, indeed.
   225. Norcan Posted: December 08, 2011 at 08:12 AM (#4009943)
Among other rules changes, they're getting rid of the rip-through, at least in terms of rewarding free throws for that most obnoxious of maneuvers. The tipping point for me was when Durant started doing it every single damn game, sometimes even twice, and not only that, but from the freaking three point line. I could live with it when guys did it at most like 20 times a season and on two point field goals but every damn game and on three pointers? No way. That move singlehandedly has made me dislike Durant more than like him, which isn't to say I actively root against him. I just don't have as much as fondness for him as I would have otherwise.

I don't think it's too much of a stretch to estimate that Durant's free throws per game will drop by at least two next season. Officials weren't calling it as much last season as when he first started doing it ad nauseum a couple of seasons ago, but by my total guess, he earned about 2.1, yes 2.1 exactly, free throws from the move last season compared to 3+ the prior season. He took around 155-165 free throws based on that bogus move alone last season. Since he's such a great free throw shooter, it padded his scoring stats in a big way. He can still get to the line in other ways since he knows how to both create and sell contact but for a guy who doesn't drive to the hoop all that much compared to other high volume free throw takers, he should never average over 10 a game. Free throws should legitimately be earned by a willingness to pay the physical price.
   226. rr Posted: December 08, 2011 at 09:46 AM (#4009953)
The Golden State Warriors have effectively withdrawn from the Paul sweepstakes by stressing to the Hornets that they simply won't include star guard Stephen Curry in any deal with New Orleans. And sources told ESPN.com that none of the other teams known to be Paul's most ardent suitors sufficiently sweetened their trade offers Wednesday, despite the fact that it's now an open secret around the league that the Hornets want to move Paul before the season starts Christmas Day, hoping to avoid a repeat of the long-running drama that suffocated the Denver Nuggets for much of last season before they traded Carmelo Anthony.


It has been evident since Monday that the Warriors and Los Angeles Clippers are New Orleans' preferred trade partners, but one source close to the process told ESPN.com that talks between Golden State and New Orleans have gone "dormant" because of the Warriors' refusal to make Curry part of the deal without an assurance from Paul that he will stay beyond this season as opposed to bolting as a free agent in July 2012. Clippers guard Eric Gordon is the other player New Orleans covets in a Paul deal on par with Curry, but L.A. has likewise insisted all week that Gordon is a "deal breaker," as one source put it.


http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7329710/sources-chris-paul-trade-talks-cool-new-orleans-hornets-unlikely-deal-friday
   227. bunyon Posted: December 08, 2011 at 01:21 PM (#4009966)
Grant Hill is still in the league?

I had no idea. That dude is my age.
   228. jmurph Posted: December 08, 2011 at 02:33 PM (#4009990)
Also, I find Bill Simmons odd. The superstar shopping for his team is something he rallied against, and now he's gleefully reporting on it.


He's been completely irrational about this since the beginning- you'll recall he was totally cool with the idea of Lebron going to the Bulls or Knicks, for whatever reason Simmons happened to cling to on any given day. I'd say for most of the media the outrage will prove to be unique to Lebron and the Heat, though in fairness, I guess a few people were fired up about Carmelo, too.
   229. fra paolo Posted: December 08, 2011 at 02:47 PM (#4010001)
Have any of you played both Strat-O-Matic basketball and Action PC basketball? If so, what are their relative strengths and weaknesses?
   230. Maxwn Posted: December 08, 2011 at 03:55 PM (#4010049)
Shane Battier just announced on Twitter that he is signing with Miami. No word on the money, but I assume this must be some sort of Mid-Level deal. Seems like a pretty good pick-up for Miami to me. Not sure exactly how he will fit in, but I think Battier still has something left in the tank and is useful to have just because he is pretty versatile defensively and can still contribute from the arc as well. I like watching him just because he's a smart player who seems to always know where to be and mostly sticks to doing the things that he can do well.
   231. Maxwn Posted: December 08, 2011 at 04:01 PM (#4010055)
Some of the casual Grizzlies fans will probably be surprised, but it's been pretty clear for a while that resigning Battier would be a luxury that the Grizz could not afford. It would have taken a lot things falling in place just right for him to be back. It was definitely a fun nostalgia tour last year though.
   232. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 08, 2011 at 04:16 PM (#4010083)
Simmons was right -- if G-State gets Paul, they can amnesty Biedrins and sign Chandler, and Paul will re-up with them. You don't make Stephen Curry untouchable when you can have that.
   233. smileyy Posted: December 08, 2011 at 05:17 PM (#4010237)
I don't like the rip-through, but if you shoot FTs the way Durant does, you kinda have to do it to help your team win.
   234. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: December 08, 2011 at 06:10 PM (#4010356)
I hate when Simmons (and he does this constantly) brings up the argument that "the amnesty thing" is so complex and hasn't been figured out yet while using the example of "If I bid 1 year 10 million and you bid 2 years 11 million, who wins?!?!!? THIS STUFF HASN'T EVEN BEEN FIGURED OUT YET!!!" This irks me so because 1.) I'm fairly certain it's been reported that you are picking up the guy for the remainder of his contract and so the figure you're bidding is an average annual value and 2.) even if that were not the case it's not that hard to figure out whether you're going to use AAV or total value.
   235. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 08, 2011 at 06:25 PM (#4010374)
Zach Lowe reported the amnesty details and answers to ambiguities 2-3 days ago.
   236. steagles Posted: December 08, 2011 at 06:27 PM (#4010378)
It has been evident since Monday that the Warriors and Los Angeles Clippers are New Orleans' preferred trade partners, but one source close to the process told ESPN.com that talks between Golden State and New Orleans have gone "dormant" because of the Warriors' refusal to make Curry part of the deal without an assurance from Paul that he will stay beyond this season as opposed to bolting as a free agent in July 2012. Clippers guard Eric Gordon is the other player New Orleans covets in a Paul deal on par with Curry, but L.A. has likewise insisted all week that Gordon is a "deal breaker," as one source put it.
Simmons was right -- if G-State gets Paul, they can amnesty Biedrins and sign Chandler, and Paul will re-up with them. You don't make Stephen Curry untouchable when you can have that.

A) even if they amnesty biedrins and sign chandler, paul is still not guaranteed to re-up, due to the newly restricted extend and trade provisions.
B) with paul's knees being a ticking time bomb, keeping curry (or gordon, for that matter) is a much safer play.




Shane Battier just announced on Twitter that he is signing with Miami.
i want these ####### in the playoffs so bad next year. i wanted boston last year, but with what wade did to end game 5, i want to shove that up their ass so badly that i don't care if the sixers have to tank to be the 8 seed, i want them out by our own hand.
   237. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: December 08, 2011 at 06:32 PM (#4010385)
Simmons reaches new heights of owner-shilling in yesterday's podcast with the following quote:

"Do you really think it's realistic that the players' union would have said: 'All right, screw it, we don't have to have guaranteed contracts anymore.' Obviously that's the best possible solution, but I can't imagine they would ever concede that one."

Steve Kerr seemed taken aback, and said that he thinks a contract should involve both sides making a commitment for the time period stated, not just one side. Of course he had just gotten through explaining why agents think "the NFL model" would be a big improvement from the players' point of view, so who knows.
   238. andrewberg Posted: December 08, 2011 at 06:58 PM (#4010418)
I don't think it's too much of a stretch to estimate that Durant's free throws per game will drop by at least two next season. Officials weren't calling it as much last season as when he first started doing it ad nauseum a couple of seasons ago, but by my total guess, he earned about 2.1, yes 2.1 exactly, free throws from the move last season compared to 3+ the prior season. He took around 155-165 free throws based on that bogus move alone last season.


Alright, I'll bite. Want to bet a BBREF sponsorship on the over/under of his FTA decrease? You get >=2.1, I get <2.1 or a gain.

Simmons was right -- if G-State gets Paul, they can amnesty Biedrins and sign Chandler, and Paul will re-up with them. You don't make Stephen Curry untouchable when you can have that.


I don't think Curry's best case is close to what Paul already is. Paul-Ellis-Wright-Lee-Chandler is a legitimate contender if they fill in an ok bench through exceptions. I can't believe they're going to get hung up on Curry, unless that's just a bargaining point.

I wouldn't get too worried about the contract. He would have to walk away from about 1/4 of his guaranteed money in his biggest payday to leave, and it's not like he'd be leaving a mediocre team or market.

Steve Kerr seemed taken aback, and said that he thinks a contract should involve both sides making a commitment for the time period stated, not just one side. Of course he had just gotten through explaining why agents think "the NFL model" would be a big improvement from the players' point of view, so who knows.


Kerr was advocating big signing bonuses and I don't think Simmons was, which makes a world of difference. I also like how Kerr took Simmons's "this is so obvious!" logic and pointed out that there is no sector of business anywhere with non-guaranteed contracts, and that it is almost antithetical to the idea of a contract.
   239. Maxwn Posted: December 08, 2011 at 07:09 PM (#4010435)
I can't believe they're going to get hung up on Curry, unless that's just a bargaining point.

I just don't think there is any reason to believe it's not just a bargaining point. You don't pass on Paul for the sake of Steph Curry, but you also don't throw Curry in the deal unless you have to, so there's no real reason not to act like you won't give him up yet. If someone else makes the deal and GSW misses out on Paul because of Curry, that would be stupid, but I have to think they are still in the hunt and will include him in the deal if that's what it takes.
   240. rr Posted: December 08, 2011 at 07:10 PM (#4010439)
I don't think Curry's best case is close to what Paul already is. Paul-Ellis-Wright-Lee-Chandler is a legitimate contender if they fill in an ok bench through exceptions. I can't believe they're going to get hung up on Curry, unless that's just a bargaining point.

I wouldn't get too worried about the contract. He would have to walk away from about 1/4 of his guaranteed money in his biggest payday to leave, and it's not like he'd be leaving a mediocre team or market.


That mostly makes sense to me, but we will see. I am starting to feel like the Paul/Howard stuff will end with something a little surprising--like Paul to Dallas, or Howard to Chicago, or Paul actually walking away from the money to play with the Knicks and leaving the Warriors/Clippers holding the bag, or some kind of four-way that involves other high-quality players/teams who have not been mentioned in the internet buzz as of yet.

This lineup:

1 Paul
2 Ellis
3 Wright
4 Lee
5 Chandler

is a good one. Not all that good on D, but very high-powered and good skill blending

Selfishly, I hope Paul goes to the Clippers, assuming the Lakers can't get him. I go up to LA 4-5 times a year to see games and seeing Paul/Griffin live would be great.
   241. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: December 08, 2011 at 07:13 PM (#4010443)
Among other rules changes, they're getting rid of the rip-through, at least in terms of rewarding free throws for that most obnoxious of maneuvers. The tipping point for me was when Durant started doing it every single damn game, sometimes even twice, and not only that, but from the freaking three point line. I could live with it when guys did it at most like 20 times a season and on two point field goals but every damn game and on three pointers? No way. That move singlehandedly has made me dislike Durant more than like him, which isn't to say I actively root against him. I just don't have as much as fondness for him as I would have otherwise.


More on this on other changes. They haven't seemed to address the Paul Pierce move - pump fake, then jump into the defender in the air. That would take about 4.3 of his FTA a game. And IMO, is a worse move than the rip through.

i want these ####### in the playoffs so bad next year. i wanted boston last year, but with what wade did to end game 5, i want to shove that up their ass so badly that i don't care if the sixers have to tank to be the 8 seed, i want them out by our own hand.

It's cute how you think the Sixers have a chance at them.

Not sure exactly how he will fit in, but I think Battier still has something left in the tank and is useful to have just because he is pretty versatile defensively and can still contribute from the arc as well. I like watching him just because he's a smart player who seems to always know where to be and mostly sticks to doing the things that he can do well.

It means more PG duties for LeBron and Wade, which is what a lot of us here thought should have happened more last year. They can play a crunch time 5 of Wade/LBJ/Battier/Bosh/Haslem and match up defensively however works best; it's going to be hard for most other teams to match up with that (for instance, that means Rose is guarding Wade). It should also end Mike Miller's time with the Heat.

---

Heat are giving Eddy Curry a look see. If he were in shape, he'd help them. He won't be, so he won't.
   242. rr Posted: December 08, 2011 at 07:17 PM (#4010446)
just a bargaining point.


I get that, but I also think that if they are willing to include Curry, they should just do it, rather than playing chicken with Dell Demps. If I am GS and I am serious about doing this, about "winning now" and about being a bling team, as Lacob supposedly is, I want Paul and Chandler in the short camp as soon as possible and I want them on the floor against the Clippers on the 25th. And I don't see GS holding this up over Epke Udoh and Klay Thompson.

And, I think wherever Paul and Howard are, they probably will not re-sign until they hit FA. There is no reason to do so--(Deron Williams, in the same situation, already explained this, on Twitter no less; it is not complex). That is just part of the deal if you want Howard or Paul.
   243. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: December 08, 2011 at 07:19 PM (#4010451)
(Rumor) Knicks to amnesty Chauncey, trade Turiaf and sign Tyson Chandler. A friend just texted this to me and I'm looking for a link right now. I find this exceptionally exciting.

EDIT:
@KBergCBS: Multiple league executives say the Knicks are now in the lead to land Tyson Chandler, jumping in front of the Warriors.

@KBergCBS: If the deal goes through, the Knicks use amnesty on Chauncey Billups and move Ronny Turiaf to make room for Chandler, sources say.


Ok, I'm too excited right now. Please let this be real. Please. Please.
   244. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: December 08, 2011 at 07:30 PM (#4010467)
Chandler makes a ton of sense for the Knicks. The back court is then consigned to young, cheap, and unproven. It can work though.
   245. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: December 08, 2011 at 07:30 PM (#4010469)
T. Chandler
STAT
Melo
Fields
Douglas

I feel like that's a contender. Not a favorite by any means...but that's a real team. Then you can go after Nash with the MLE in '12 or maybe even pick up G. Hill now for some point forward work. PLEASE LET THIS HAPPEN.

EDIT: Chandler makes a ton of sense for the Knicks. The back court is then consigned to young, cheap, and unproven. It can work though.

Fields, sure, but DWTDD seems like a known commodity to me. Undersized, above average combo guard with below average court vision, tons of defensive talent and the ability to go off offensively. Hopefully he finally has a fully healthy season but at this point maybe he's just one of those guys that's always hurt.
   246. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: December 08, 2011 at 07:34 PM (#4010477)
He falls under "cheap".
   247. smileyy Posted: December 08, 2011 at 07:35 PM (#4010480)
Chandler would add a ton to the Knicks, letting STAT and Melo get away with *($#ing up on D a lot more, which they're going to do anyway.
   248. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: December 08, 2011 at 07:40 PM (#4010488)
Billups was pretty good last year... before he went to NY.

If he's fully healthy, he could be a very nice pick-up for someone next season.
   249. steagles Posted: December 08, 2011 at 07:40 PM (#4010489)
It's cute how you think the Sixers have a chance at them.
they weren't ready last year. but this year, turner is a year older, holiday is a year older, young is a year older, we actually have a center, and hopefully iguodala will have more than 1 leg when they meet in the postseason.
   250. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: December 08, 2011 at 07:41 PM (#4010492)
[248] I thought Billups was pretty good as a Knick as well. Don't remember what the numbers say. Chandler just fills a GAPING hole though.

EDIT: If the NYK are seriously interested in amnesty-ing(?) Chauncey I might even sign up for doing that, going after DeAndre Jordan and picking up one other guy. Of course, that assumes Jordan's defense is actually good which I'm not sure of at the moment.
   251. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: December 08, 2011 at 07:54 PM (#4010517)
His numbers were down a bit, but he just wasn't fully healthy (missed games and a couple of gimpy nights.) I think the immediate perception of that trade would have been different if he went to NY and stayed healthy. But that's just a guess.

I'd still probably do that if I'm NY. Though Chandler does scare me a bit, he's a good fit for them.
   252. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: December 08, 2011 at 07:55 PM (#4010522)
Where does Chauncey go? LAL? I guess one of the under cap teams would get the first shot.
   253. rr Posted: December 08, 2011 at 08:04 PM (#4010538)
Where does Chauncey go? LAL? I guess one of the under cap teams would get the first shot.


He won't make it to the Lakers if the Knicks amnesty him, although he would help the Lakers a lot. I wonder if he would return to Denver, or if there is bad blood? He is a Denver native and they have cap space.

I saw an article in which Billups expressed some resentment about the way the end of his career has gotten tied up with Carmelo Anthony and now with Chris Paul. On a certain level, this is dumb: Billups is still getting his money and that is the nature of the business. On another level, given Billups' long and distinguished career, and the fact that he still has some on-court value, I can understand his irritation.

No idea if the NYK rumor is true, of course, but this kind of stuff is why I think teams trying to make big moves need to make them, with the NBA calendar being so compressed. I could be dead wrong, but I can't picture Chandler waiting around to see if the Warriors can bring themselves to part with Curry if Chandler has a solid offer from New York or another team.
   254. Conor Posted: December 08, 2011 at 08:08 PM (#4010544)
Marc Stein on twitter

Now to see if Knicks elect to put Amare Stoudemire in trade proposals to New Orleans for CP3. Sources say it's one option Knicks considering


Edit: As a Knick fan, I fear Chauncey is beginning to break down. He may not take well to this compressed eason.
   255. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: December 08, 2011 at 08:10 PM (#4010548)
Marc Stein now reporting that though it is HIGHLY unlikely, there's a segment of the Knicks FO that wants to try and move Amar'e for Paul.

EDIT: Coke. This is the most excited I've been as a Knicks fan since July 1, 2010, which was the most excited I'd been in about 10 years.
   256. jmurph Posted: December 08, 2011 at 08:16 PM (#4010556)
Marc Stein now reporting that though it is HIGHLY unlikely, there's a segment of the Knicks FO that wants to try and move Amar'e for Paul.


That would have to include a 3rd team, right? Why would a rebuilding team want Amare?
   257. Conor Posted: December 08, 2011 at 08:19 PM (#4010562)
EDIT: Coke. This is the most excited I've been as a Knicks fan since July 1, 2010, which was the most excited I'd been in about 10 years.


Yeah, this is awesome. I don't even know how I feel about this stuff, but it's still cool.
   258. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 08, 2011 at 08:20 PM (#4010565)
I saw an article in which Billups expressed some resentment about the way the end of his career has gotten tied up with Carmelo Anthony and now with Chris Paul. On a certain level, this is dumb: Billups is still getting his money and that is the nature of the business. On another level, given Billups' long and distinguished career, and the fact that he still has some on-court value, I can understand his irritation.

Chauncey Billups in his prime was better than Carmelo Anthony has been to date, and if you added "by quite a bit," you wouldn't be that far off.
   259. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 08, 2011 at 08:25 PM (#4010571)
EDIT: Coke. This is the most excited I've been as a Knicks fan since July 1, 2010, which was the most excited I'd been in about 10 years.

Word. I've spent the last week rationalizing taking fully advantage of the ridiculously undervalued ticket prices for the lame duck act at the Rock (and actually bought a pair this morning for LBJ at Nets), but CP3/Chandler/Melo is a real team. The Garden's got my wallet if they make that happen.(**)

You move Stoudemire to get that nucleus after about a quarter of a second of thought. (Embedded caveat with all CP3 comments: After getting a committee of the best and brighest knee doctors to sign off on his cartilege).

(**) Though there's bound to be some teeth-gritting ahead when Isiah starts trying to take credit.
   260. andrewberg Posted: December 08, 2011 at 08:28 PM (#4010572)
Signing Chandler would necessarily slam the door on signing Paul as a FA next year, right?

Still, that seems like a move that makes them a lot better. The areas for improvement change from gaping holes to little tweaks. Need more ball handling and three point shooting. Not a lot of that out there- Bassy Telfair, Shannon Brown, Earl Watson. Want to see if there's anything left in the Bibby or TJ Ford tanks?
   261. Ignatius J. Reilly Posted: December 08, 2011 at 08:31 PM (#4010577)
NO has no use for an unhappy STAT. There'd have to be another team.

Or more likely they could just wait till the end of the year and trade/amnesty STAT and use the cap space to give CP3 75MM instead of the 55MM. He'd still be leaving 25MM on the table, but that's better than leaving 50MM.
   262. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: December 08, 2011 at 08:34 PM (#4010580)
Still, that seems like a move that makes them a lot better. The areas for improvement change from gaping holes to little tweaks. Need more ball handling and three point shooting. Not a lot of that out there- Bassy Telfair, Shannon Brown, Earl Watson. Want to see if there's anything left in the Bibby or TJ Ford tanks?

It's great because you can put a defensive unit on the floor with Chandler, Melo/STAT, Jeffries (ugh), Shumpert and DWTDD.

I also think they have enough 3 point shooting: DWTDD, Fields, Williams and Melo (though I guess for both those guys there's a sample size issue and I really wouldn't mind seeing STAT take more 3s either). MAKE IT OFFICIAL.
   263. Famous Original Joe C Posted: December 08, 2011 at 08:36 PM (#4010586)
i want these ####### in the playoffs so bad next year. i wanted boston last year, but with what wade did to end game 5, i want to shove that up their ass so badly that i don't care if the sixers have to tank to be the 8 seed, i want them out by our own hand.

Yeah, uh, good luck with that.

Interesting move for the Knicks - makes them better - but I don't see how it gets them any close to Chris Paul. Who would give up something worthy of Chris Paul for Stoudemire, his back, his contract?
   264. Famous Original Joe C Posted: December 08, 2011 at 08:38 PM (#4010590)
I feel like that's a contender. Not a favorite by any means...but that's a real team.

Depends on what you mean. They aren't going to beat the Heat or the Bulls in a seven game series. They might have enough to beat out the Celtics for the division, though, depending on what the schedule does to the old C's.
   265. Famous Original Joe C Posted: December 08, 2011 at 08:40 PM (#4010596)
they weren't ready last year. but this year, turner is a year older, holiday is a year older, young is a year older, we actually have a center, and hopefully iguodala will have more than 1 leg when they meet in the postseason.

Wait, who is their center? Do you mean Vucevic?
   266. andrewberg Posted: December 08, 2011 at 08:44 PM (#4010601)
All news is good news as long as it isn't "Lakers acquire Paul and Howard."
   267. billyshears Posted: December 08, 2011 at 08:44 PM (#4010602)
Marc Stein now reporting that though it is HIGHLY unlikely, there's a segment of the Knicks FO that wants to try and move Amar'e for Paul.


I get that signing Chandler and moving Amar'e for Paul makes the Knicks better, but it kind of makes me feel bad as a Knicks fan. Amar'e embraced the challenge of rebuilding the Knicks. He's made other players actually want to play for the Knicks again. He's been a great player and leader. He's embraced the city. The fans are 100% behind him. If the Knicks are in the finals with Paul/Melo/Chandler, I'm sure I'll get over it, but right now I want to go to war with Stat.
   268. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: December 08, 2011 at 08:52 PM (#4010612)
Interesting move for the Knicks - makes them better - but I don't see how it gets them any close to Chris Paul. Who would give up something worthy of Chris Paul for Stoudemire, his back, his contract?

The chances of the Knicks getting CP3 were close to none anyway. They don't have the assets. This move, IMO, is all about getting better and it beautifully addresses the team's biggest needs though, this tweet is entirely appropriate: RT @MattDotRich: @netw3rk anonymous sources state knicks request injury settings to be turned off

Depends on what you mean. They aren't going to beat the Heat or the Bulls in a seven game series. They might have enough to beat out the Celtics for the division, though, depending on what the schedule does to the old C's.

I think a Chandler-STAT-Melo-Fields-Douglas NYK team is either 3rd or 4th in the East over the course of a season and while they would never be favored against MIA or CHI, I could see a scenario in which they beat them. Not saying it's likely but I'm saying there's a chance and that's a lot more than I could have said 2 hours ago.

I get that signing Chandler and moving Amar'e for Paul makes the Knicks better, but it kind of makes me feel bad as a Knicks fan. Amar'e embraced the challenge of rebuilding the Knicks. He's made other players actually want to play for the Knicks again. He's been a great player and leader. He's embraced the city. The fans are 100% behind him. If the Knicks are in the finals with Paul/Melo/Chandler, I'm sure I'll get over it, but right now I want to go to war with Stat.

I like STAT as a personality more than I like Melo, but I like winning more than I like anything else. If there were some way to get Paul and it would require STAT being traded, I wouldn't think twice about it.
   269. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: December 08, 2011 at 09:08 PM (#4010626)
they weren't ready last year. but this year, turner is a year older, holiday is a year older, young is a year older, we actually have a center, and hopefully iguodala will have more than 1 leg when they meet in the postseason.

Yep, totally. Especially the center part...

Signing Chandler would necessarily slam the door on signing Paul as a FA next year, right?

Yes. Unless he REALLY wants to play there and takes the MLE.

Want to see if there's anything left in the Bibby or TJ Ford tanks?

Ford has signed with SA.

Or more likely they could just wait till the end of the year and trade/amnesty STAT and use the cap space to give CP3 75MM instead of the 55MM. He'd still be leaving 25MM on the table, but that's better than leaving 50MM.

One amnesty per team, so if they use it on Billups, no reusing it. Using it on STAT in a year, unless he has a catastrophic and career ending injury would be foolish, IMO.

The chances of the Knicks getting CP3 were close to none anyway. They don't have the assets.

Exactly.

---

Some stuff out there about the Knicks trading Billips now, maybe in a S&T for Chandler. I can see why Dallas would want him. Lest anyone think that puts the Knicks back in play for any other significant FAs, think again. But they would still have their amnesty to protect against an injury (and STAT and Chandler might have different levels of concerns in that area).

---

Tayshaun Prince resigns in Detroit for 4yr/$27mil. Why?

---

WojYahooNBA: As http://t.co/rSjNt9sJ reports, the Lakers, Hornets and Rockets are engaged in 3-way talks on deal that would send Chris Paul to Lakers.


The Rockets would totally take Gasol or Bynum in that deal; WTF do the Hornets get?
   270. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: December 08, 2011 at 09:09 PM (#4010628)
Shannon Brown to Sun, 1 yr, $3.5mil. Why?
   271. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: December 08, 2011 at 09:10 PM (#4010630)
Paul to LA, Pau to NO, Assorted stuff to NO gaining steam.

EDIT: coke to Moses (heh)

Tayshaun Prince resigns in Detroit for 4yr/$27mil. Why?

Re-signing him keeps their Big 3 of him, Charlie V and Ben Gordon together.
   272. Ignatius J. Reilly Posted: December 08, 2011 at 09:12 PM (#4010634)
One amnesty per team, so if they use it on Billups, no reusing it. Using it on STAT in a year, unless he has a catastrophic and career ending injury would be foolish, IMO.


Possible to trade Billups.

Only amnesty STAT if Paul commits next July.
   273. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 08, 2011 at 09:15 PM (#4010637)
Paul to LA, Pau to NO, Assorted stuff to NO gaining steam.

I don't see a package centered around Pau being markedly superior to one centered around STAT.
   274. Ignatius J. Reilly Posted: December 08, 2011 at 09:20 PM (#4010647)
It's Gasol to Houston. Martin/Scola/picks/Houston youth to NO.
   275. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: December 08, 2011 at 09:21 PM (#4010649)
I don't see a package centered around Pau being markedly superior to one centered around STAT.

I don't know, I think Pau Gasol is pretty clearly a superior player.
   276. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: December 08, 2011 at 09:22 PM (#4010652)
After last season's playoffs, I would have traded Pau Gasol for a Chris Paul Fathead. If the Lakers end up with Paul, and out from under Gasol's contract, I'll be stunned. And if they can keep Odom at the same time, that would be incredible.
   277. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: December 08, 2011 at 09:28 PM (#4010661)
I think it's more likely that the Sixers miss the playoffs entirely than that they extend their first-round series to as many as 6 games. I watched him a bunch when he was in college for some reason (seemed to always be on TV when I was watching), spoiler alert: Nikola Vucevic is not your savior.
   278. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: December 08, 2011 at 09:30 PM (#4010662)
CBA "B List" breakdown.

This caught my eye:

A new "renegotiation and extension" provision allows an existing contract to be renegotiated so the player is paid a smaller amount over a longer period, but the player's salary cannot decrease by more than 40 percent. Renegotiations previously could only increase a player's salary.
   279. Famous Original Joe C Posted: December 08, 2011 at 09:30 PM (#4010663)
After last season's playoffs, I would have traded Pau Gasol for a Chris Paul Fathead. If the Lakers end up with Paul, and out from under Gasol's contract, I'll be stunned. And if they can keep Odom at the same time, that would be incredible.

Then it's Bynum, Odom, and Kwame Brown for Howard, and I attach bricks to my shoes and jump into Boston Harbor.
   280. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: December 08, 2011 at 09:34 PM (#4010666)
Then it's Bynum, Odom, and Kwame Brown for Howard, and I attach bricks to my shoes and jump into Boston Harbor.


Don't worry, I hear Nomar is back in town.
   281. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 08, 2011 at 09:34 PM (#4010667)
I don't know, I think Pau Gasol is pretty clearly a superior player

I'd put Pau at 11-12-ish overall; STAT at 18-19-ish, but my point was more that they're basically the same thing from NOH's perspective. Neither is a franchise guy, they're roughly the same age with roughly the same contract, so you're still caught between a full teardown and something around .500.

No significant big picture difference.

EDIT: If there's a fits-better-with-Okafor advantage, it goes to STAT.
   282. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: December 08, 2011 at 09:36 PM (#4010672)
Then it's Bynum, Odom, and Kwame Brown for Howard

I don't think Bynum is really necessary there. A Odom, Blake, Caracter and Ebanks package would make a lot more sense for Orlando.

I'll grab a towel...in case you make a splash on the way in.
   283. Ignatius J. Reilly Posted: December 08, 2011 at 09:37 PM (#4010673)
A new "renegotiation and extension" provision allows an existing contract to be renegotiated so the player is paid a smaller amount over a longer period, but the player's salary cannot decrease by more than 40 percent. Renegotiations previously could only increase a player's salary.


Wow. Would Melo take a paycut and an extra year in order to play with his little buddy?
   284. andrewberg Posted: December 08, 2011 at 09:43 PM (#4010675)
Why do teams get so irrational when negotiating with the lakers?
   285. Ignatius J. Reilly Posted: December 08, 2011 at 09:46 PM (#4010676)
Caron Butler to the Clips. 3/24MM.
   286. madvillain Posted: December 08, 2011 at 09:58 PM (#4010685)
Caron Butler to the Clips. 3/24MM.


Good to see the systemic problem of overpaying mediocre players by mediocre teams was fixed by the lockout. Simmons should just love this signing for "his" Clippers.

I'm starting to worry GarPax is gonna be too conservative and miss the boat here. Bogans...please...no.
   287. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: December 08, 2011 at 10:00 PM (#4010686)
Mike Dunleavy to the Bucks, 2yr $7.5mil. Why?

---

Would Melo take a paycut and an extra year in order to play with his little buddy?

This is why I posted that. That story doesn't talk about the salary cap impact at all. I would guess not, but I can't be sure.

---

Knicks contract for Chandler: 4yr, $58mil. Also in that link, Billups angry.
   288. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: December 08, 2011 at 10:02 PM (#4010687)
I'm starting to worry GarPax is gonna be too conservative and miss the boat here.

Nothing they can do about that Butler deal. They might just have to wait on Richardson or VC. All 3 of those guys are about the same for me at the MLE (none are perfect and have flaws). I don't think the Bulls sign no-one though.
   289. jmurph Posted: December 08, 2011 at 10:09 PM (#4010693)
Cheering against Howard in purple/gold would be very easy; I've always found him to be unlikable. But Paul. That's no good.
   290. madvillain Posted: December 08, 2011 at 10:12 PM (#4010696)
Nothing they can do about that Butler deal. They might just have to wait on Richardson or VC. All 3 of those guys are about the same for me at the MLE (none are perfect and have flaws). I don't think the Bulls sign no-one though.


Right, that's stupid money for him anyways. I'm holding out hope that JRICH is serious about trying to win and comes to the Bulls for the MLE. Not holding my breath though. I'm wondering if JR Smith is a real option, either now via buyout or in March.

JRICH is a good team mate and can space the floor, he seems to fit the Bulls perfectly on and off the court. I would be happy with Brewer and a 1st round pick (it'll in the late 20s anyways) for Crawford in a sign and trade. Blogabull had a good analysis of Crawford -- he has become a better player than he was earlier in his career, even as his athleticism falls off.

I think they realize what a huge problem they have at SG. I just don't know how much they are willing to give up (and if they will go into the tax) to fix it.

____________

On a side note, Mirotic, the kid they drafted that plays for Real Madrid, is absolutely destroying Maccabi Tel Aviv today. He was #1 topic on Twitter for a minute. He had 22 points at half including a monster dunk over "baby shaq". Kid looks like the real deal. Hopefully they can bring him over next season. He will struggle to rebound and body up against bigger guys, but as a stretch 4, he looks lovely. Assuming he comes over within the next 3 years, he could be an absolute coup for GarPax, the sort of draft pick that puts them over the top.
   291. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: December 08, 2011 at 10:12 PM (#4010697)
Moses, how many of the teams making these signing are under the salary floor? That might be at play here as well.
   292. Famous Original Joe C Posted: December 08, 2011 at 10:13 PM (#4010698)
I know he makes the Knicks better....but $14.5M per year for Chandler? Doesn't that seem like, well, a lot for a guy who played half seasons in the two prior to last?
   293. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: December 08, 2011 at 10:20 PM (#4010706)
I know he makes the Knicks better....but $14.5M per year for Chandler? Doesn't that seem like, well, a lot for a guy who played half seasons in the two prior to last?

It seems like a lot to me, but a.) I don't know the best way to make dollar valuations of NBA players and b.) It might be skewed because the NBA has a max salary so anytime someone who is not a true superstar makes money close to what those guys make (or makes more in some cases, Joe Johnson) it's going to seem like a huge overpay. All that said, the Knicks need rebounding/defense more than almost any team and they just filled that need (assuming/hoping/praying this goes through).
   294. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: December 08, 2011 at 10:27 PM (#4010712)
johnhollinger: If Chandler's deal is really 4 yr $58M then it HAS to be sign-and-trade or Knicks HAVE to trade Turiaf & 1 other player.


---

Moses, how many of the teams making these signing are under the salary floor? That might be at play here as well.

Unless guys are amnestied we don't know about, none of the Bucks (Dunleavy is actually getting part of the MLE meaning they're over the cap), Suns (also already over cap) or Pistons are under the floor (they have cap space - about $11mil before Prince's deal, but still not under floor). Clippers are about $1mil short of the floor, not counting any cap holds (which probably puts them over). That might have something to do with Hayes's 4rr/$20mil offer from Sac though, they look about $17mil under the floor before that deal (with Thorton a RFA and not counting their draft picks).
   295. madvillain Posted: December 08, 2011 at 10:31 PM (#4010718)
It seems like a lot to me, but a.) I don't know the best way to make dollar valuations of NBA players and b.) It might be skewed because the NBA has a max salary so anytime someone who is not a true superstar makes money close to what those guys make (or makes more in some cases, Joe Johnson) it's going to seem like a huge overpay. All that said, the Knicks need rebounding/defense more than almost any team and they just filled that need (assuming/hoping/praying this goes through).


If they do end up signing Chandler and amnestying Billups they are going to need a PG. Rumors have B Diddy being amnestied by the Cavs. Could be a potential fit there.

Diddy
Fields
Melo
Stat
Chandler

Turiaf
Purple Drank
DWTDD
Shuppert
...
...

Seems like a pretty good team but not one that can beat Chicago or the Heatles IMO.
   296. smileyy Posted: December 08, 2011 at 10:33 PM (#4010721)
[278] That would let someone like Kevin Garnett restructure his Minnesota contract to get better FAs there, wouldn't it?
   297. smileyy Posted: December 08, 2011 at 10:35 PM (#4010724)
What are the chances the Clippers amnesty Butler this season? </snark>
   298. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: December 08, 2011 at 10:36 PM (#4010726)
[295] I want no part of Davis. I don't think a Davis-STAT-Melo group could ever work. I think the PG job should be Douglas' to lose and I think he will do fine. I don't think group is good enough that I'd say they would beat either of those teams (or BOS for that matter) but it's good enough that I think they COULD. By the way, Turiaf is gone as well.
   299. andrewberg Posted: December 08, 2011 at 10:37 PM (#4010727)
The Knicks aren't under the cap. How can they bid on Baron?
   300. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: December 08, 2011 at 10:43 PM (#4010734)
Davis won't make it to NYY.
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