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Friday, December 02, 2011

NBA THREAD DECEMBER: POST-LOCKOUT

With the lockout over, I estimate that there may be more than 10-12 Primates who want to talk about the NBA, and with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: fractional reserve banking, and Tim Tebow.

robinred Posted: December 02, 2011 at 12:26 AM | 3254 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: general

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   2201. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: January 10, 2012 at 11:11 PM (#4033796)
Really enjoying the Wolves announcing team.
   2202. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: January 10, 2012 at 11:19 PM (#4033803)
The Wolves could really use someone with a back to the basket game.
   2203. madvillain Posted: January 10, 2012 at 11:28 PM (#4033809)
Rose with the absurd fantasy line 31, 11, 3, 1, 2 on 12/22fg, 3/4ft and 4 threes against 3 TO.

I enjoy watching the Wolves. Rubio baby.
   2204. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: January 10, 2012 at 11:43 PM (#4033818)
ESPNStatsInfo ESPN Stats & Info
76ers with 5 20-point wins in 9 games already this season. ELIAS: Last team to do that was 1969-70 NBA champion Knicks.
15 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
   2205. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: January 11, 2012 at 12:07 AM (#4033831)
Apparently Spencer Hawes spent the lockout training with Shawn Kemp. No, seriously.
   2206. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: January 11, 2012 at 12:11 AM (#4033834)
Apparently Spencer Hawes spent the lockout training with Shawn Kemp. No, seriously.
yeah, hawes also worked out with kemp in the run up to his draft, so it's something that's been out there for a little while.

kemp still lives in the seattle area, and he has kid(s) who play for UW, where hawes trained over this offseason.



the article also drops a little note about how kemp expects to be featured in a future sports-illustrated article that will focus on his maturation since leaving the NBA.


   2207. madvillain Posted: January 11, 2012 at 12:16 AM (#4033840)
the article also drops a little note about how kemp expects to be featured in a future sports-illustrated article that will focus on his maturation since leaving the NBA.


He seems to be doing well. His restaurant here in Seattle hasn't folded after being open for over a year and has gotten pretty good reviews.

I haven't tried it yet, but sometime soon.
   2208. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: January 11, 2012 at 01:37 AM (#4033881)
Keeping the Sixers in perspective. And did you notice that even as they're the talk of the young season, the Sixers are still playing to a lot of empty seats? Why is that? Lack of star power? Lack of narrative? Or maybe just hard-bitten Philadelphia sports fans who'll believe it when they see it and not a moment sooner?
just saw this in my reader.


if i had to answer that, i'd say it's a combination of the city being burnt out on pro basketball following years of underwhelming mediocrity and utterly disinterested ownership, but i also think it's important to note that the schedule was only released a week or two before the season started, and that since the team had virtually no season ticket base, they have to sell the bulk of the tickets game by game. i think there's also an issue of the town hating the team's "best" player, and the team not doing anything significant over the offseason to improve the roster.

if they'd have traded iguodala for monta ellis at the draft, they'd probably have sold more tickets, but they'd be a much worse team in doing so.


i think it's just that the logistics of trying to sell 15,000 individual tickets to every game will mean that there's a lot of empty seats at a lot of games this season (specifically weekday games against weaker competition). i don't think anything the team does on the court has the potential to change that this year, but if they keep playing like this, they'll sell a ton of season tickets going into next year.
   2209. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: January 11, 2012 at 02:10 AM (#4033895)
tmoorepburbs: Only 1996-97 Bulls (170 points through 9 games) and 1993-94 SuperSonics (154) had a greater point differential than #Sixers since 1985-86.


i'm not entirely sure, but i think that's fairly good company to be in.
   2210. robinred Posted: January 11, 2012 at 02:41 AM (#4033902)
The Lakers played like it was 2006 tonight. Kobe was 18/31 from the floor, 12/13 at the line and had 48 of the team's 99 points, including a reverse dunk on an alley-oop from...Walton. Fun for the KobePhiles in the fanbase and he deserves a lot of credit for his performance since Denver...but not a sustainable approach.

I have Golden State as one of my league pass teams (location) and they staged a cool comeback and beat the Heat in OT, in front of a raucous crowd.

Fun stuff.

76ers/Knicks tomorrow is actually of great interest to me now. STEAGLES has sort of turned this season into a 76ers-driven drama.
   2211. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: January 11, 2012 at 02:43 AM (#4033903)
The Warriors, minus Steph Curry, just came back from 17 down with a minute left in the 3rd quarter to beat the Heat in overtime. Dorell Wright, who had made 5 of 27 3s so far this year, shot 6-11 from long range. Nate Robinson scored 24 off the bench, including 14-14 ft. That's a hell of a (surprising) win.

Golden State improves its record to 2-0 against the Heat and Bulls while remaining 1-6 against everyone else.
   2212. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 11, 2012 at 03:40 AM (#4033924)
Kobe was 18/31 from the floor, 12/13 at the line and had 48 of the team's 99 points
31 shots? Selfish Kobe!
   2213. robinred Posted: January 11, 2012 at 04:08 AM (#4033930)
It was actually Barnes who threw the pass, not Walton. Had the radio feed on while I watched MIA/GS.

Bryant career-list trivia:

He is the first guy ever to score 48 points in a game in his 16th season (or later). Kareem scored 46 in his 17th year; Shaq scored 43 in his 16th. It was Bryant's 108th career 40-point game, 3rd all-time. Jordan is 2nd with 173; Chamberlain leads with 271.


   2214. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 11, 2012 at 05:30 AM (#4033940)
As it pertains to the current season, Bryant over the last five games since the bad Denver game is averaging 36 pts, 5.6 assists, and 5.4 rebounds while shooting 51.5%.

Now, if only they could pick up a win or two on the road...
   2215. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: January 11, 2012 at 08:06 AM (#4033949)
Watched the first half of PHX-LAL, Kobe was awesome. No one on PHX had any chance.
   2216. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: January 11, 2012 at 10:46 AM (#4033999)
A college note, but holy moley was Brandon Paul on fire last night for the Illini in their win over Ohio State (43-8-2, 2 stl, 4 blk, 11-15 fg, 8-10 3pa, 13-15 ft). [He entered the night averaging 12.1 pts on 36% fg, 28% 3pt.]
That three he hit from the corner in the last minute was particularly sick.

Nate Robinson to GSW (in the absence of Curry) seemed to be working last night - 24 points off the bench, 14 from the line (where he didn't go very often last season) 4 boards, 5 assists, 5 steals in their upset of the Heat.
   2217. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 11, 2012 at 11:03 AM (#4034013)
Rose with the absurd fantasy line 31, 11, 3, 1, 2 on 12/22fg, 3/4ft and 4 threes against 3 TO.

Wait, I thought Rubio outplayed him? Rubio did have 13, 11, 4, 4, 0 on 6/11fg, 1/2ft and 0/1 3's against 5 TOs. Seriously though, Rubio was the key to the huge comeback, part of which Rose was sitting out with what looked like an ankle thing (after the game he said it was turf toe, and it wasn't new). Brewer couldn't keep Rubio in front of him, and the whole offense just keyed off that. Somehow, the Bulls let their defensive struggles carry over into their offense and they kept settling for long jumpers (not to take anything away from Minny's defense, but the Bulls just stopped being aggressive). Once the Bulls started driving more in the 4th, they were able to put it away (plus, open 3's).

STEAGLES has sort of turned this season into a 76ers-driven drama.

I'm thisclose to ignoring him. This has been a good thread, but once again, I've more than had my fill. But again, I'll say it's my problem.

A college note, but holy moley was Brandon Paul on fire last night for the Illini in their win over Ohio State (43-8-2, 2 stl, 4 blk, 11-15 fg, 8-10 3pa, 13-15 ft). [He entered the night averaging 12.1 pts on 36% fg, 28% 3pt.]
That three he hit from the corner in the last minute was particularly sick.


He is incredibly talented - since HS his comp has been Wade, and his mannerism and sneaky athleticism are somewhat comparable - but has really struggled in Weber's stifling offense. It was great to see him break out in that game, as I can see him as being a successful role player in the NBA and sure hope he gets that chance.
   2218. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 11, 2012 at 11:52 AM (#4034072)
STEAGLES has sort of turned this season into a 76ers-driven drama.

I'm thisclose to ignoring him. This has been a good thread, but once again, I've more than had my fill. But again, I'll say it's my problem.
I've been skimming over his longer posts — there's a lot of cheerleading in that analysis — but it's not coming from a bad place. He's not spewing vitriol and he's not rah-Sixes it at the expense of anyone else's teams.
   2219. andrewberg Posted: January 11, 2012 at 12:21 PM (#4034109)
Once the Bulls started driving more in the 4th, they were able to put it away (plus, open 3's).


Yeah, during the run at the beginning of the game and the one at the end, it seemed like Chicago couldn't miss a three. Even open 3's rattle out sometimes, but it seemed as if every one was going through the hoop. I think the Wolves gave an ok account of themselves, but I don't want the record (now 3-7) to start reminding people of Rambis. The team is playing much better. Failing to show up against Cleveland and missing shots down the stretch at Toronto have made them look worse than they are. Oh well.
   2220. Jimmy P Posted: January 11, 2012 at 12:39 PM (#4034131)
STEAGLES has sort of turned this season into a 76ers-driven drama.


I guess I haven't really paid attention. I just skim his stuff. I skim a lot of it. Since he's not being mean and he's on point, I don't mind.
   2221. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: January 11, 2012 at 12:51 PM (#4034145)
I guess I haven't really paid attention. I just skim his stuff. I skim a lot of it. Since he's not being mean and he's on point, I don't mind.

I agree with this. And, to his credit, he has been largely on point about their performance 1/7th of the way through the season.
   2222. Jimmy P Posted: January 11, 2012 at 12:53 PM (#4034151)
I think the Wolves gave an ok account of themselves, but I don't want the record (now 3-7) to start reminding people of Rambis. The team is playing much better

Agreed. I got to watch most of the 2nd half, and I really think the Wolves were playing better. Adelman and Rubio add so much to that team and not having Rambis and Beasley adds to that.
   2223. robinred Posted: January 11, 2012 at 01:09 PM (#4034167)
I don't mind STEAGLES either, but he did say this about the game tonight:


anyway, i'm gonna say that jodie meeks goes off tomorrow and the sixers hang 115 on the knicks at MSG. this is an opportunity to make a statement against the competition in the atlantic division, and i'm optimistic that they do just that.


A specific prediction about Jodie Meeks "going off" (not exactly like saying Rose or Wade will go off) and that the 76ers will run wild offensively.

So, like I said, I want to see what happens. No regular-season game means all that much, but you can learn from regular-season games, and I would think both NY and PHI would like to have this game.
   2224. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: January 11, 2012 at 01:15 PM (#4034172)
A specific prediction about Jodie Meeks "going off" (not exactly like saying Rose or Wade will go off) and that the 76ers will run wild offensively.

So, like I said, I want to see what happens. No regular-season game means all that much, but you can learn from regular-season games, and I would think both NY and PHI would like to have this game.


FWIW, as a Knick fan, I thought "That...is possible" when I read it. Meeks, IIRC, can shoot the deep ball and the improved Knick D (10th in D-Rtg!!!!) has still looked a step slow closing out on shooters IMO.
   2225. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: January 11, 2012 at 01:18 PM (#4034174)
I too am looking at this Knicks game as an indication of whether the 76ers are anything special.

They have had some luck so far this year in opposing starters being out and being an intact team (well, not luck exactly).
   2226. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: January 11, 2012 at 01:32 PM (#4034189)
A specific prediction about Jodie Meeks "going off" (not exactly like saying Rose or Wade will go off) and that the &6ers; will run wild offensively.

So, like I said, I want to see what happens. No regular-season game means all that much, but you can learn from regular-season games, and I would think both NY and PHI would like to have this game.
if you look at the way this team is constructed, there are 8 rotational players who's PER is currently above 15. the contributions the team has gotten from those first 8 players has been remarkably consistent, and remarkably steady through the first 9 games. those 8 players have driven the sixers surge into the national spotlight.


but jodie meeks adds something different. you're gonna get ~10 points from each of iguodala and holiday and williams and turner and young and brand. you're gonna 5-10 rebounds from young, brand, iguodala, turner, and hawes. you're gonna get assists from iguodala, turner, holiday, and williams (and even brand and hawes have assist to turnover ratios over 2:1).

but when you add 17 points from meeks on top of all of that, i think the team becomes almost untouchable.
   2227. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 11, 2012 at 01:34 PM (#4034192)
Well, I don't know if anyone is convinced the Knicks are special, so beating them might just be what the Sixers should do.
   2228. Jimmy P Posted: January 11, 2012 at 01:35 PM (#4034194)
I too am looking at this Knicks game as an indication of whether the 76ers are anything special.


Why? The Knicks haven't proven they're special.
   2229. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: January 11, 2012 at 01:44 PM (#4034204)
Why? The Knicks haven't proven they're special.

At least they were supposed to be above average with all their big names and all. It's the 3rd day in the row for the Sixers, at the Garden. The Sixers have been pointing to it, I want to see them play as they have been playing in a presumed highly visible and pressurized environment.
   2230. robinred Posted: January 11, 2012 at 01:44 PM (#4034207)
Why? The Knicks haven't proven they're special.


Sure, but the Knicks have a couple of guys who can drop 30-40 on you, and the 76ers' calling card is defense. Want to see how that plays out. Baron Davis isn't there yet, and that matters, but AFAIK the Knicks have everybody else and will almost certainly be in the post-season. The 76ers have mostly beaten non-playoff teams; the best team that have beaten is probably the Pacers, who didn't have Granger and Hill. The game is in New York.

The other side of this is that 76ers have been blowing teams away, margin of victory is a big thing for stathead formulas--hence the Powere Ranking.

One thing I would like know is whether, as a %, there have been more blowouts relative to all the games this year. ISTM with the schedule, if you are on a b2b on the road, and you get down 15, the coach is more likely to say, "F it" since you are going to have another game 36 hours later.

Another thing to think about is that even though these guys travel on luxurious chartered jets, hopping around from city to city this fast still takes something out of the legs, I would think.

The Lakers, for example, flew to Salt Lake City right after the Phoenix game. Lot of that kind of travel going on.
   2231. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 11, 2012 at 01:50 PM (#4034210)
At least they were supposed to be above average with all their big names and all.
At the very least, they're a playoff-quality team (of the Eastern Conference variety, but still) with all their personnel intact, which makes them different from every other team the Sixers have beaten this season thus far. Steagles' barrage of posts have worked; I'm mildly interested now in how the Sixers will do tonight.
   2232. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 11, 2012 at 01:53 PM (#4034215)
Pfft, why are wasting time talking about the Sixers when one of the teams to beat them has a five game winning streak.

On a serious note, the Jazz' winning streak has to be the luckiest/most unlikely of the season. They faced Hornets at home without Gordon, Bucks at home without Bogut, Grizzlies at home without Randolph and Arthur, Warriors without Curry, and then the Cavs at home who were forced to play players from their own roster.

Irving looked really good to me. He made a crazy spinning layup, shot well, and did a good job getting to the line. Thompson also showed some good athleticism and a couple good moves (though he wasted one by hesitating when he got Jefferson into the air, instead of going up immediately to get the foul).

Jefferson, Millsap, and Favors were beasts on offense, but the latter two fouled out -- this was due in large part to awful calls and the refs being way too whistle happy. I've even seen Jefferson make some stops at the basket lately, and he claims that Favors' and Kanter's energy on defense has encouraged him to do more. Howard looks like a good pickup, and with Bell's awfulness and Hayward's passivity, he should get plenty of playing time if he can stay healthy. The biggest concern I have for this team is Harris. If he's going to shoot this rarely, he needs to improve his efficiency and/or get more assists. He's a valuable trade piece if he plays like he did last year for the Nets, but since he's been on the Jazz he's looked like someone who is just a step too slow and just off on his shot.
   2233. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: January 11, 2012 at 01:53 PM (#4034217)
The Lakers, for example, flew to Salt Lake City right after the Phoenix game. Lot of that kind of travel going on.

I'm not sure about this, but it seems to me that teams always take that type of flight the night before (as the Lakers did) instead of flying to Utah today and then playing tonight. I think such is standard. Is that true? And if so, does anyone know why? I can see arguments on both sides- and it really depends on the trip- but if I played on the Lakers, I'd much rather sleep in my own bed and fly to, say, the Bay area at noon for a night game, than spend the previous night in a hotel. But I don't think that ever happens.

Is same day travel prohibited? Frowned upon? Or am I just missing it?
   2234. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 11, 2012 at 01:58 PM (#4034231)
Is same day travel prohibited? Frowned upon? Or am I just missing it?
I thought same day travel was just business as usual for basketball and baseball? Isn't that why they schedule day games mid-week as getaway days?
   2235. Jimmy P Posted: January 11, 2012 at 01:59 PM (#4034232)
Is same day travel prohibited? Frowned upon? Or am I just missing it?


I would have to believe it's probably due to weather and airport concerns. What if the flight is delayed or the airport is shut down?

The Blazers consulted with a sleep specialist a few years ago and he changed their travel routine. I'm sure that's out the window due to the compressed schedule this season.
   2236. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: January 11, 2012 at 02:18 PM (#4034252)
I thought same day travel was just business as usual for basketball and baseball? Isn't that why they schedule day games mid-week as getaway days?

I meant traveling during the day before your game. As in, why didn't the Lakers fly to Utah this morning instead of last night?

I can see the weather issues (although we do tend to forget them out here) but it just seems like there would be some opportunities (especially this year) for same-day travel.
   2237. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 11, 2012 at 02:22 PM (#4034258)
I was just looking at the Bulls schedule, and tonight is game 3 of their only back-to-back-to-back. Game 1 was home vs Det, Game 2 in Minneapolis (an hour flight or so; game 3 of Min's own b2b2b), and game 3 at home vs. Wash. I bet that has to be the easiest, including travel, b2b2b of any team this year. Plus, the Wiz will probably still be hung over after their victory last night.

Something else that I hadn't pointed out yet, but the Bulls finished the game with Gibson and Asik on the floor yet again. If that's the lineup Thibs trusts at the end of games (and they have looked better lately), I'm all for it. But that's a lot of frontcourt money sitting on the bench in crunch time...
   2238. andrewberg Posted: January 11, 2012 at 02:23 PM (#4034259)
Jefferson, Millsap, and Favors were beasts on offense


Not that anyone cares, but I noticed too that Cleveland's interior defense is a gaping wound. Varejao is a good defensive player but better as a help defender in a team concept than one on one because he doesn't have overwhelming strength to counter guys with good post moves. Other than him, you've got the human foul machine Samardo Samuels, Antawn Jamison, and a very raw Tristan Thompson (may be good eventually, defensively lost now). Darko looked great against them, I'll leave it at that.

   2239. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 11, 2012 at 03:56 PM (#4034357)
A story about Portland, the one surprising team that might actually have a shot at the Finals. To revisit some discussion from a few days ago,

Though Felton is responsible for the Blazers new, exciting style of play, the reality is that Portland is receiving brutal play from the point guard position. Apart from last night’s win against the Clippers, there hasn’t been a more glaring weakness. Throughout his career, Ray Felton has somehow managed to be both unspectacular and underrated. At the moment, his TS% is an abysmal 44.4%, good for fourth worst among all point guards in the league averaging at least 25 minutes a game, while his usage rate surpasses Chris Paul’s. He’s second on the team in minutes yet holds a PER teetering on the brink of single digits.

For the pudgy player he’s been these last few years, somehow, Felton remains a dart on the court. He bobs and weaves through defenses and plays the game with a little man recklessness that can be great at times, yet detrimental at others. That up-and-down play has to stop if Portland truly wants to challenge for a title this season, because the team’s greatest strength, LaMarcus Aldridge, will be more valuable than ever when the team needs to slow the pace down and go for a more systematic attack. If Felton isn’t making smart entry passes or and being judicious with his shot attempts, tight playoff games could turn ugly. Felton’s value also lies in his ability to join Wesley Matthews in a backcourt capable of spreading the floor, a key asset on a post-centric team. (Right now Felton is taking just over three shots from deep every night. He’s made four all season! That’s 14% shooting from someone who was 46% on long balls in 21 games for Denver last season. This needs to/should improve.)


For the record, Lawson's comparable numbers are 57.9 TS% (his career is 59.4%) and a PER of 21.2. Felton was easily considered the better prospect out of college, but Lawson has easily and clearly blown by him.
   2240. madvillain Posted: January 11, 2012 at 05:05 PM (#4034428)

Something else that I hadn't pointed out yet, but the Bulls finished the game with Gibson and Asik on the floor yet again. If that's the lineup Thibs trusts at the end of games (and they have looked better lately), I'm all for it. But that's a lot of frontcourt money sitting on the bench in crunch time...


It is a lot of money to have on the bench, but it's a hell of a luxury to have, and it's afforded by the brilliance of Rose and the almost equally brilliant defensive play of Gibson and Asik in Thibs' system. Rose can create enough offense even with those offensive stiffs out there, and with Asik and Gibson roaming around and cleaning the class it's almost impossible for the other team to make a run.

Down the road some tough decisions are gonna have to be made wrt to Gibson and Asik, but right now I'm just sitting back and enjoying it.
   2241. robinred Posted: January 11, 2012 at 05:13 PM (#4034439)
I think such is standard. Is that true? And if so, does anyone know why?


I think you're right, and I didn't frame my point correctly. I am not sure if the travel patterns are any different; I was trying to point out that the patterns, even if they are the same, are more compressed/frequent. For example, I would guess that it is pretty unusual for Lakers to play a home game and then play a b2b the next night in SLC. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't recall the Lakers having a b2b like that in recent seasons. Seems like under a normal sched there would be a day between PHX @ home and then UTA away.
   2242. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 11, 2012 at 05:28 PM (#4034456)
ESPNSteinLine: Going up on ESPN online: Bulls signing Mike James out of D-League in wake of Derrick Rose toe injury, say sources close to deal. Link soon


They can use another guard, but Rose says it's turf toe and it's not new. I don't think he's missing any time. If anything, I bet this is more because the Watson injury is worse than initially let on.

It is a lot of money to have on the bench, but it's a hell of a luxury to have, and it's afforded by the brilliance of Rose and the almost equally brilliant defensive play of Gibson and Asik in Thibs' system. Rose can create enough offense even with those offensive stiffs out there, and with Asik and Gibson roaming around and cleaning the class it's almost impossible for the other team to make a run.

In the regular season, sure. But in the playoffs? As for down the road choices, I just assume Gibson is gone as soon as he gets decent money (so after his RFA year where he probably ends up playing for the QO), and I think that's the right time. I wouldn't be surprised to see Noah gone before Asik.
   2243. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 11, 2012 at 05:33 PM (#4034465)
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't recall the Lakers having a b2b like that in recent seasons. Seems like under a normal sched there would be a day between PHX @ home and then UTA away.

You're wrong. Last year's schedule. 11/2&3 (@Sac), 1/11&12; (@GS), 2/22&23; (@Portland), 4/5&6 (@GS) and 4/12&13; (@Sac). That's just the home/away B2B and doesn't count the many away/away b2b.

In almost every case I remember, teams always fly out after the games. There's always comments the next day if the plane is late or something. Usually, the announcers are complaining because their schedule coincides with the team.
   2244. madvillain Posted: January 11, 2012 at 05:40 PM (#4034481)
They can use another guard, but Rose says it's turf toe and it's not new. I don't think he's missing any time. If anything, I bet this is more because the Watson injury is worse than initially let on.


This is just...wierd. Rose said he's fine and that he's been playing with turf toe since HS. Meanwhile, Watson is out of the sling and said to be day to day. What worries me is that Rips injury is worse than they are saying and that he's not really day to day but more like out another two weeks.

In the regular season, sure. But in the playoffs? As for down the road choices, I just assume Gibson is gone as soon as he gets decent money (so after his RFA year where he probably ends up playing for the QO), and I think that's the right time. I wouldn't be surprised to see Noah gone before Asik.


I too wouldn't be surprised to see Noah gone. The sad fact is that he doesn't fit that well with Boozer. Noah is a great player, but his value to Chicago just isn't what it was and he has the most trade value of any of their bigs.

It's a bit worrisome that Noah and Boozer aren't closing every game, but at the same time one of the overlooked problems in the ECF last year was when Asik got injured, they had to play a tired and over matched KT for 25+ a game. Boozer was crap that series, and when Asik went down their advantage against Miami's front court was mostly naturalized. Asik has improved his fouling this year and his conditioning enough to stay on the floor for longer stretches.

The kid Mirotic is still at least 2 years away, but him and Noah would be a great fit, maybe they amnesty Boozer and try to somehow get Mirotic over here quicker, although they can only offer him so much. From the reports I'm reading out of Spain, Mirotic is the real deal, a stretch 4 that can run and bang a little in the post as well. He's super young and playing at a high level in the Euroleague, that bodes well.


   2245. robinred Posted: January 11, 2012 at 05:47 PM (#4034493)
You're wrong.


Not exactly. I pointed out that going from LA to UTAH on a b2b was unusual. Note the locations and time zones of the games you listed. All except Portland are in the state of CA. LA to SLC is not like flying to Philly or something, but it is also not like flying to Sacramento or Oakland. Also, all the games you listed are in the Pacific Time Zone. SLC isn't. It is only an hour ahead, but it is still a difference.

I would guess that with b2b2bs; and more 4-in-5s and b2bs, there may be more time-zone hopping on short turnarounds.

Sometimes on long interconference trips, teams hop from, say, LA to SLC on a b2b, and a lot of those games are seen as possible schedule losses.
   2246. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 11, 2012 at 06:12 PM (#4034531)
KCJHoop: League source confirms @ESPNSteinLine report #Bulls have signed Mike James, who is trying to get to WEDS tip vs. WASH. DRose turf toe worse.


KCJHoop: DRose vowed to play on his turf toe but it worsened overnight. He's likely out vs. Wizards. #Bulls


KCJHoop: Source said DRose is wearing walking boot on left foot. #Bulls calling Rose day-to-day.


Wow, that escalated quickly.
   2247. madvillain Posted: January 11, 2012 at 06:19 PM (#4034538)
KCJHoop: DRose vowed to play on his turf toe but it worsened overnight. He's likely out vs. Wizards. #Bulls


WTF. So Chicago is down to JL III and Mike James, Ronnie Brewer and Kyle Korver at the guard spots. My interest in tonight's game went from about a 6 down to a 2.
   2248. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 11, 2012 at 06:20 PM (#4034539)
Let Noah play PG. He can't be any worse at that than he's been at center so far this year. The idea of JLIII chasing Wall around is kinda funny though.

EDIT: See, Matt, this is why people were upset with JLIII making the team as BS roster filler when there might be a real backup/third PG type floating around. Not that the Mike James call up jives with that theory (but he has played for Thibs before; then again, he's probably played for every current head coach at one time or another).
   2249. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 11, 2012 at 06:24 PM (#4034544)
Not that anyone cares, but I noticed too that Cleveland's interior defense is a gaping wound. Varejao is a good defensive player but better as a help defender in a team concept than one on one because he doesn't have overwhelming strength to counter guys with good post moves. Other than him, you've got the human foul machine Samardo Samuels, Antawn Jamison, and a very raw Tristan Thompson (may be good eventually, defensively lost now). Darko looked great against them, I'll leave it at that.


They refused to double-team Jefferson too, even though Jefferson would likely still try to shoot through it and the Jazz' guards and wings were not really a threat.
   2250. robinred Posted: January 11, 2012 at 06:26 PM (#4034547)
Too bad about Rose.

As an aside, I have relatives in Lexington and one of them met John Wall a couple of years ago, and said "He seemed like a really nice young man." So, in that dumb way we fans have, I am kind of rooting for the Wiz to get better. Things don't look good.

   2251. madvillain Posted: January 11, 2012 at 06:28 PM (#4034549)
EDIT: See, Matt, this is why people were upset with JLIII making the team as BS roster filler when there might be a real backup/third PG type floating around. Not that the Mike James call up jives with that theory (but he has played for Thibs before; then again, he's probably played for every current head coach at one time or another).


Eh, Lucas has actually exceeded my expectations, he's been fine. I will say the same thing I said then: if Rose and Watson are both injured, you're ###### anyways.

In theory, sure, I would like to have a better 11th man than JL III. In reality, who was available? Nate Robinson?
   2252. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 11, 2012 at 06:33 PM (#4034555)
Sure, of course. And, yes, he's been shockingly competent (he got to tower over JJ Berea last night) with a PER of 20.5.

Yes, that's one. Scour the D-League rosters, I'm sure there's someone out there. And I do understand why Thibs wants him around specifically (this year anyway, not last year necessarily).
   2253. madvillain Posted: January 11, 2012 at 06:39 PM (#4034560)
Well, we'll probably see a little Jimmy Butler tonight. Sky is falling on the Chicago Internets. Whatever, it's turf toe and it's Derrick Rose. Maybe he doesn't bother to dunk until the playoffs role around. He'll be back soon and fine.

Chicago has a soft schedule over the next two weeks, even if the decide to sit Rose for that long, they should be able to tread water. It might #### their chances at HCA though, which would stink.
   2254. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: January 11, 2012 at 07:16 PM (#4034595)
As an aside, I have relatives in Lexington and one of them met John Wall a couple of years ago, and said "He seemed like a really nice young man."


FWIW I've heard this from people who have met Wall too. I feel like I say this a lot, but the NBA really has an embarrassment of riches in terms of personable young stars.
   2255. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 11, 2012 at 08:17 PM (#4034631)
KCJHoop: DRose and CJ and Rip out vs. Wizards. Mike James not here yet. This is DRose's 7th missed game of career. #Bulls


KCJHoop: Thibodeau on who is backing up John Lucas: "Lucas." #Bulls


Yikes.
   2256. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: January 11, 2012 at 08:42 PM (#4034645)
FWIW I've heard this from people who have met Wall too. I feel like I say this a lot, but the NBA really has an embarrassment of riches in terms of personable young stars.

On a related note, I was thinking about this earlier as I watched the NBATV show with Charles, Shaq, etc....from players to analysts/announcers the NBA has a wealth of guys that make me think "Man, I'd love to hang out with him."
   2257. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 11, 2012 at 09:18 PM (#4034665)
Who is Josh Harrellson, and why is he messing with Steagles?
   2258. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: January 11, 2012 at 09:33 PM (#4034674)
Offense went in the crapper in the 2nd Q. Needs more Jorts.
   2259. JJ1986 Posted: January 11, 2012 at 09:40 PM (#4034679)
I haven't seen Washington this year, but they're really bad. Nick Young looks especially useless.
   2260. Davo Dozier Posted: January 11, 2012 at 09:43 PM (#4034681)
Why aren't the 76ers winning by 30?
   2261. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: January 11, 2012 at 09:50 PM (#4034688)
Who is Josh Harrellson, and why is he messing with Steagles?


yeah, that was not ideal.


the turnovers are just killing me. that's getting to be a recurring issue with regard to the team's slow starts, and it's very annoying.

   2262. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: January 11, 2012 at 10:10 PM (#4034704)
Harrellson is the big goony white guy who did the dirty work for Kentucky's insane collection of talent and athleticism last year.
   2263. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: January 11, 2012 at 10:29 PM (#4034715)
He's the Knicks' answer to Greg Stiemsma!
   2264. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: January 11, 2012 at 10:30 PM (#4034716)
Watching Dallas/Boston. To be honest both of these teams look more like .500 teams than contenders. I know Dallas is on the second half of a B2B, but Boston's been off since Friday.
   2265. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: January 11, 2012 at 10:31 PM (#4034717)
Iman Shumpert's hands are just incredible. Even if he never learns to shoot dude is going to be around for a while.
   2266. madvillain Posted: January 11, 2012 at 10:34 PM (#4034720)
Sorry Steagles.

This Chicago / Wiz game is unwatchable. The Bulls are a damn mess without Rose. The lack of offensive playmakers is shocking. Rose makes everything so easy for them, without his playmaking they are exposed. They are starting to remind me of the Lebron cavs honestly. A great team, a finals level team, but a flawed one. I guess that's OK, they are what they are.
   2267. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 11, 2012 at 10:35 PM (#4034722)
So Kobe doesn't seem bothered by shooting so many shots or traveling to Utah right after last night's game: 14 points at the end of the 1st.
   2268. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: January 11, 2012 at 10:43 PM (#4034728)
Pietrus is on Boston now? Good get.
   2269. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: January 11, 2012 at 11:00 PM (#4034738)
This game was not a fun watch. (PHI-NYK)

Too many 3s from Shump, too much Iso-Melo, not enough Jorts.
   2270. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 11, 2012 at 11:00 PM (#4034739)
DeMarcus Cousins had a big night: 21 points (6-11 and 9-11) with 19 rebounds, though 0 assists and 5 turnovers.

The Lakers are getting almost nothing from non-Kobe players. 20 points, 5 boards, and 3 assists so far in the 1st half.
   2271. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: January 11, 2012 at 11:15 PM (#4034750)
So...I'm assuming the Bulls just decided to run all of Rose's sets for Lucas?
   2272. robinred Posted: January 11, 2012 at 11:23 PM (#4034756)
So Kobe doesn't seem bothered by shooting so many shots or traveling to Utah right after last night's game:


That first one has always bothered other people more than it has Kobe.

Quotes:

Kobe last night: "Pretty good for the 7th-best player in the league."
Jazz TV guy Matt Harpring talking to Lakers radio guys this afternoon: "You have to put a big asterisk next to that 48. I mean, Grant Hill is 37 years old."

Paul Millsap has always been a player I have liked. He's good. Lakers have his younger bro in the DLeague, inceidentally.

Maybe shouldn't do this, but: Jodie Meeks had 3 points in 16 minutes.

Tonight was a tough set-up schedule-wise for the 76ers. They play Atlanta and Denver pretty soon; those will be games to look at.
   2273. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: January 11, 2012 at 11:25 PM (#4034758)
This game was not a fun watch. (PHI-NYK)
yeah, i'll second that. i don't think the sixers lost because it was the third game of a back-to-back-to-back, but i think their poor shooting was directly related to that. they came out flat, got down by 10 early, and then, even though the defense was at times great, they just didn't have the legs to hit enough shots to claw the game back to even. the knicks hung 28 on the sixers in the first quarter, and then put up 57 through the rest of the game, despite playing with a days rest and against a team that was on the back end of the aforementioned back-to-back-to-back. i'm disappointed by the result, but i'll take the effort.



there really wasn't anyone who had a good game, but elton brand played as well as he has all season. 11 and 10 with 2 blocks and 2 steals.




   2274. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: January 11, 2012 at 11:28 PM (#4034764)
Maybe shouldn't do this, but: Jodie Meeks had 3 points in 16 minutes.
nah, i was off on that. they really could have used a good game from him, though.
   2275. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: January 11, 2012 at 11:34 PM (#4034767)
the knicks hung 28 on the sixers in the first quarter, and then put up 57 through the rest of the game, despite playing with a days rest and against a team that was on the back end of the aforementioned back-to-back-to-back. i'm disappointed by the result, but i'll take the effort.

FWIW, the Knicks offense has been pretty bad for most of the year.

I really hate Arron Afflalo's game. So much. So so much.
   2276. robinred Posted: January 11, 2012 at 11:38 PM (#4034769)
Dirk.
   2277. andrewberg Posted: January 11, 2012 at 11:51 PM (#4034778)
Seriously, Dirk. Then Ray Allen got old all at once. Of course, he looked the same in the 08 playoffs up to the finals.

Amare looked really slow. I heard a lot about how he put on muscle to rebound better, but I think he is better being an athletic freak who goes around and past anyone who is big enough to bother him.

Iguodala's on ball defense and Melo's iso offense are both super elite skills, and we got a taste of how they match up, but Philly brought help a lot to force the ball out of his hands. Can't criticize based on how well it worked even though it would be fun to see those two go one-on-one. Actually, I'd be pretty interested to see those guys play a game of one-on-one. Iggy isn't much offensively, but I feel like he could score on Melo. He's probably a better passer by about the margin that Melo is a better rebounder. I think being an elite shot creator is slightly more valuable because you eventually need help no matter how good you are on defense. Still, it's a data point in that whole "is Iggy the best sixer?" debate from last week.

Chandler is starting to look like he has an idea of how to play with those guys. Makes sense. Team defenders probably need time to acclimate to teammates the same way that a point guard would.

I have come to agree that Shumpert and DWTDD should be the crunch time backcourt until Davis gets back. Ok, not ideal.

From watching Kyle Lowry, it seems like he has massively increased his usage with little cost to his efficiency. Somehow the Rockets lose guys every year and remain pretty good.

I think the Spurs cut Diogu because it was too hard for the announcers to keep track of Tiago and Diogu at the same time.
   2278. andrewberg Posted: January 11, 2012 at 11:53 PM (#4034780)
So, Lakers v. Jazz or Clippers v. Heat after this Spurs game ends? I'm open to persuasion.

Portland is blacked out here, because, you know, I might otherwise drive 6 hours on a Wednesday to pay for a ticket.
   2279. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:01 AM (#4034785)
So, Lakers v. Jazz or Clippers v. Heat after this Spurs game ends? I'm open to persuasion.


Watch the Lakers, we need more eyes watching Kobe's demeanor.
   2280. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:01 AM (#4034786)
re: iggy v. melo, i think carmelo's ability to create open shots for other players is severely underrated. and i think they both have the weak ego thing going on w/r/t their iso'ing, except carmelo is still actually pretty effective in isolation, whereas iggy is kind of a walking mason (laying bricks, and whatnot).

also, carmelo's ability to not miss 4/5 FTs in the 4th quarter gives him a solid advantage in my mind w/r/t being the primary offensive option.


   2281. robinred Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:07 AM (#4034789)
When you have a choice between Al Jefferson and Blake Griffin, you always watch Big Al.
   2282. robinred Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:12 AM (#4034791)
we need more eyes watching Kobe's demeanor.


Nah. Non-Laker fans look away when he is shooting 50%.
   2283. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:15 AM (#4034793)
John Lucas was a 25-8-8 tonight (in 46 minutes, on 28 shots). John Lucas.

1. He's within the confidence interval of an NBA 3rd point, but not the guy I'd bring in*. (His ability to hit a three does matter for Chicago, mind you).
2. He's also been decent in the early going this season - and put up a solid line tonight. even with the inefficiency.
3. That said: he does not need to take 28 shots in an NBA game. Ever.


To name one possibility: Ben Uzoh. He doesn't have the jumper Chicago probably wants out of that spot, though.
   2284. andrewberg Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:18 AM (#4034796)
also, carmelo's ability to not miss 4/5 FTs in the 4th quarter gives him a solid advantage in my mind w/r/t being the primary offensive option.


I was referring to Melo's ability as the primary offensive option v. Iggy's ability as a defender of primary offensive options. That's a little closer call.

Kobe will be making Raja Bell flop in a retirement home 50 years from now.
   2285. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:19 AM (#4034797)
The Clippers right now have Brian Cook, Reggie Evans, Mo Williams, Randy Foye, and Ryan Gomes on the floor. Yuck.
   2286. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:20 AM (#4034798)
Overtime! Raja played some good defense on Kobe in the 4th, though I think Kobe looked a bit fatigued and/or cold from his time on the bench earlier. I'm sure robinred is looking forward to the analysis of Kobe taking the last second shot. ;)
   2287. andrewberg Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:21 AM (#4034800)
The Clippers right now have Brian Cook, Reggie Evans, Mo Williams, Randy Foye, and Ryan Gomes on the floor. Yuck.


That could have been a good starting five for them two years ago.
   2288. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:23 AM (#4034803)
Kobe last night: "Pretty good for the 7th-best player in the league."
Jazz TV guy Matt Harpring talking to Lakers radio guys this afternoon: "You have to put a big asterisk next to that 48. I mean, Grant Hill is 37 years old."

Paul Millsap has always been a player I have liked. He's good. Lakers have his younger bro in the DLeague, inceidentally.


Harpring brought up Kobe's quote during the Jazz game too and he and Bolerjack talked about how he's still the best player in the league.


I <3 Millsap. Hard not to love a guy that has so greatly exceeded expectations, is a hard worker, and fills whatever role his team asks. I think this year he's playing with something more to prove too since Favors started over him at the beginning of the season.
   2289. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:24 AM (#4034804)
I'm really enjoying this matchup between the two hottest teams in the league. The Jazz are playing hard, the crowd is into it, and Kobe looks like he really doesn't want to lose.

EDIT: Pau with the corner 3!
   2290. andrewberg Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:25 AM (#4034805)
Dayum, Matt Harpring. Put down the clicheclypedia

"You can't measure heart"

"These are the moments that define great players"

"It's a war"

All within about a minute.
   2291. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:28 AM (#4034810)
andrewberg, you're lucky you haven't heard him say "Swat Lake City" after every Jazz block. I liked him as a player, but I think he took a couple hard hits to the head.
   2292. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:32 AM (#4034814)
I wanted to see how Kobe was reacting to being surrounded by bricklayers.

**

Harpring's twitter feed is, um, interesting too. No, I don't follow him.
What do you expect from a GT guy, I guess...

**

Nobody thinks Iggy's an ideal first option offensively. I don't know why you focus on that, steagles.

Out of curiosity, I checked what Iggy and Melo's simple ratings* over the last four seasons (so, not counting '11-12) were:

Melo +5.75, Iggy +5.59

PER (which this relies on) overrates high usage guys (helping Melo), Anthony gets some bonus credit from me for being better at spreading the floor, better from the line (which has tactical value), and better at creating his own shot. My personal preference, all else equal, is for defenders (less diminishing returns from good d than from good o). Iggy has been more durable over that time - gets a pretty big "value above replacement level" bump.
You could make a pretty credible argument that Iguodala has been more valuable over the last four years. Not sure I buy it, not sure I don't.

[Note: Carmelo has a fantastic simple rating thus far so far (+15.5), Iggy's is great too but not the same neighborhood (+8.9). Both marks lead their teams.]


* not a flawless measure by any stretch - still, it might be my favorite quick grab uber stat. you can find it at 82games.com
   2293. Chicago Joe Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:33 AM (#4034816)
A college note, but holy moley was Brandon Paul on fire last night for the Illini in their win over Ohio State (43-8-2, 2 stl, 4 blk, 11-15 fg, 8-10 3pa, 13-15 ft). [He entered the night averaging 12.1 pts on 36% fg, 28% 3pt.]
That three he hit from the corner in the last minute was particularly sick.


Indeed he was. Biggest win for the Illini in quite some time.
   2294. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:36 AM (#4034818)
we need more eyes watching Kobe's demeanor.

Nah. Non-Laker fans look away when he is shooting 50%.


You're saying we're free to judge his demeanor, then?
   2295. tshipman Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:38 AM (#4034821)
How long do I have to wait before I get to take a victory lap on Jimmer, btw?

Through 10 games, 8.4 points on 36% shooting (30.8% from 3), with 1.6 RPG, 2.5 APG and 1.8 TO, for a total PER of 9.4 (and it's not exactly missing his defensive contribution)

Should I wait until 30 games? 60?
   2296. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:39 AM (#4034822)
Billups needs to be on the second unit. He is jacking them up from all over Jamal Crawford-style.

In every single huddle with VDN absolutely nobody looks like they are paying any attention to him whatsoever.
   2297. robinred Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:40 AM (#4034823)
I need to re-evaluate Utah's chances at the 8th spot. I judged them too much on how they looked in that first game here.

Gasol, supposedly, has actually been working on 3s--have heard that for awhile.
   2298. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:41 AM (#4034824)
Ugly, but exciting game. Both teams missed some easy shots they probably make with a day off, but Kobe going off and Millsap down the stretch made it fun despite that.
   2299. andrewberg Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:41 AM (#4034825)
Wow! Until Caron made that FT, Blake had 16, CP3 had 14, Mo had 4, and that was it for LAC.

VDN in the huddle was living up (down?) to his reputation for not actually coaching.
   2300. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:43 AM (#4034826)
He's their best offguard, even if he is a matador and shoots too much. Gets to the line a lot where he doesn't miss + is solid from three where a lot of those attempts are coming from. If they want to contend for a championship and do so with this roster, he'll probably have to be the primary two.
Put another way: if he's on the bench, they're starting Mo Williams or Randy Foye - not that different a story.

They need a new coach.
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