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Friday, December 02, 2011

NBA THREAD DECEMBER: POST-LOCKOUT

With the lockout over, I estimate that there may be more than 10-12 Primates who want to talk about the NBA, and with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: fractional reserve banking, and Tim Tebow.

rr Posted: December 02, 2011 at 12:26 AM | 3254 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: general

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   2301. rr Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:44 AM (#4034827)
VDN in the huddle was living up (down?) to his reputation for not actually coaching.


Maybe Phil will come back and take over the Clippers next year.
   2302. tshipman Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:45 AM (#4034828)
VDN in the huddle was living up (down?) to his reputation for not actually coaching.


I think I have to wait a whole season to claim victory on this one. Or at least until a CP3 injury.
   2303. andrewberg Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:48 AM (#4034833)
How about Larry Brown? It's not like they need someone to rebuild the team. Just get him in there to fix the defense and try to compete for 3-4 years. Plus, he has such a good history with Sterling, or something.
   2304. rr Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:51 AM (#4034834)
Phil was a just a joke; coaching the Clippers might make things a little awkward for him domestically.

Brown could certainly happen. If Sterling actually paid Brown what he owed him without attorneys becoming involved, that would constitute a "good history" with The Little Donald.
   2305. andrewberg Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:53 AM (#4034836)
Going back to what I said about Lowry earlier- his usage is up about 3% over previous career high (18.6 to 21.2) while he has his best TS% and is just a hair off his best eFG%. The really unsustainable parts are the reb rate (19.1 to career 11.1) and assist rate (44.5 to career 27). Wild stuff.
   2306. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: January 12, 2012 at 01:00 AM (#4034842)
Was there any discussion of the Wizards' new logo when it was unveiled? It looks like it was designed by Trey Parker and Matt Stone. Does anyone remember if there was a DC team in BASEketball?

Also, Mario ("Supernintendo?") Chalmers may be the best shooter of buzzer-beaters in the history of the sport.
   2307. andrewberg Posted: January 12, 2012 at 01:13 AM (#4034849)
Also, Mario ("Supernintendo?") Chalmers may be the best shooter of buzzer-beaters in the history of the sport.


Billups hit with 3 secs left, then Chalmers hit with under a second. It was the passing of the Mr. Big Shot torch.
   2308. Into the Void Posted: January 12, 2012 at 02:06 AM (#4034871)
I'm no stathead but I think Chris Paul is pretty good at basketball.
   2309. Into the Void Posted: January 12, 2012 at 02:18 AM (#4034875)
These foul calls are horrible.
   2310. Into the Void Posted: January 12, 2012 at 02:18 AM (#4034876)
Please God let this Heat/Clippers game go into overtime.
   2311. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: January 12, 2012 at 02:30 AM (#4034879)
Please God let this Heat/Clippers game go into overtime.


There is a Tebow!
   2312. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: January 12, 2012 at 02:30 AM (#4034880)
Was anyone counting steps on LeBron? Oh well, another OT tonight!
   2313. rr Posted: January 12, 2012 at 02:46 AM (#4034884)
The first ever David Stern-approved Lakers/Clippers game on Saturday may be a good one.
   2314. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 12, 2012 at 11:53 AM (#4035046)
John Lucas was a 25-8-8 tonight (in 46 minutes, on 28 shots). John Lucas.

Right. In case anyone wasn't sure about how bad the Wizards are. He was just chucking left and right. I don't know if that was the game plan, but I can't believe how many possessions the Bulls had where he was the only guy touching the ball. And he completely outplayed Wall - that has to be concerning, right?

How long do I have to wait before I get to take a victory lap on Jimmer, btw?

On that team, with those teammates? I think you have to wait until he's on another team.

Was there any discussion of the Wizards' new logo when it was unveiled? It looks like it was designed by Trey Parker and Matt Stone. Does anyone remember if there was a DC team in BASEketball?

Didn't they just use an old Bullets template and substitute in Wizards? It's much, much, much better than the old logo and color scheme.
   2315. steagles Posted: January 12, 2012 at 11:58 AM (#4035053)
How long do I have to wait before I get to take a victory lap on Jimmer, btw?
i think you'll have to wait until midway through next year. i think he might be the kind of guy who needs a year to adjust to the difference in the level of play between college and the NBA.
   2316. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:06 PM (#4035061)
That Knicks game was ugly as their whole season has been so far. Alan Hahn has noted their pace has slowed considerably, which has resulted in a lot more isolation and lower scoring games. It's ugly to watch.

I am excited about what Shumpert brings to the table, but it's pretty clear that he's not ready to run an offense. They need a point. The 76ers exposed this during the second half of the 4th, as he could barely make it past half court.
   2317. The Essex Snead Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:14 PM (#4035066)
Ridnour for Fields
Ridnour for Fields
Ridnour for Fields
Ridnour for Fields
   2318. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:19 PM (#4035070)
Ridnour for Fields
Ridnour for Fields
Ridnour for Fields
Ridnour for Fields


Works for me. At this point, I don't see what Fields brings to the Knicks. There is no motion in the offense, so he's been effectively made useless. He's not a great defender either.
   2319. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:19 PM (#4035071)
double post
   2320. Jimmy P Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:29 PM (#4035085)
Portland is blacked out here, because, you know, I might otherwise drive 6 hours on a Wednesday to pay for a ticket.


It's only available here for Comcast subscribers. If you get your tv any other way, you only get to watch a fraction of the games.
   2321. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:34 PM (#4035087)
Something to watch...

IIRC, to this point all the 1s Shumpert has been matched up with are guys who he is clearly physically/athletically superior to. This wasn’t the case with Holiday and it seemed to really bother him. A friend of mine pointed this out to me prior to the PHI game and I didn’t think much of it, but it did seem to show last night. In addition, his still shaky, at best, shot is exactly why I don’t want him as our “scorer off the bench” if/when Davis is healthy. He has a shot selection problem and though he will still likely take bad shots no matter what, I think it is tempered somewhat when the majority of his minutes come with guys higher on the pecking order. Once TD figures out his issues, and I have faith he can/will, I think that’s his role.

On a happier note, the Knicks are now 7th in Defensive Efficiency.
   2322. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: January 12, 2012 at 12:50 PM (#4035101)
Fields for Ridnour doesn't work salary-wise.
[/nofunliteralguy]
   2323. steagles Posted: January 12, 2012 at 01:04 PM (#4035123)
Fields for Ridnour doesn't work salary-wise.
[/nofunliteralguy]
under the new rules, or the old ones?
   2324. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: January 12, 2012 at 01:11 PM (#4035130)
Yes.
Ridnour makes something like four times as much as Fields.
   2325. Jimmy P Posted: January 12, 2012 at 01:13 PM (#4035132)
Ridnour makes something like four times as much as Fields.


KAHHHNNNN!!!
   2326. andrewberg Posted: January 12, 2012 at 01:17 PM (#4035136)
Ridnour makes about $5m. I guess Fields is on his 2nd round rookie contract. The Knicks must have some salary they can dump if they need to get this to work.
   2327. The Essex Snead Posted: January 12, 2012 at 01:19 PM (#4035140)
Ridnour for Fields & Eddy Curry's (former) daily stipend?

OR

Ridnour ($3.7 M) for Fields ($0.8 M) & Jeffries ($1.2 M) & Bibby? ($1.3 M)?
   2328. andrewberg Posted: January 12, 2012 at 01:35 PM (#4035163)
Ridnour for Fields and Balkman would work.

Can Minnesota acquire a 16th player for salary matching purposes to let the trade go through, then waive him? Or do they have to open a spot on the roster to absorb the salary first?

Let's see how deep into the details of this made up internet trade that isn't going to happen.
   2329. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 12, 2012 at 01:36 PM (#4035164)
Ridnour ($3.7 M) for Fields ($0.8 M) & Jeffries ($1.2 M) & Bibby? ($1.3 M)?

Not sure why the Wolves would want Jeffries (though, I suppose, if they're in need of someone who can draw a charge he's your guy) or Bibby.
   2330. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: January 12, 2012 at 01:39 PM (#4035170)
If I'm the T-wolves, why do I do this pretend deal instead of someone else's pretend deal for Ridnour?
Also, I think the Knicks have used up their ability to toss cash into a deal w/ the Turiaf trade.
   2331. kpelton Posted: January 12, 2012 at 01:51 PM (#4035182)
Can Minnesota acquire a 16th player for salary matching purposes to let the trade go through, then waive him? Or do they have to open a spot on the roster to absorb the salary first?

They would have to waive a player currently on the roster.
   2332. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 12, 2012 at 01:59 PM (#4035192)
And the Knicks can't trade Bibby for a while, right, since he was a FA?
   2333. andrewberg Posted: January 12, 2012 at 02:03 PM (#4035199)
Minnesota isn't waiving anyone to facilitate that deal, even if they really like Fields. The last two guys on the roster are Brad Miller, who would require a lot of money to waive, and Malcolm Lee, who is recovering from a preseason injury but is really popular with the coaching staff. Der_K is right that there is probably some other team who can offer a more attractive package.

The more interesting MN personnel issue right now is whether AR gets to keep starter's minutes when Beasley heals. The offense flows much better, naturally, and he has developed into a pretty smart, efficient player. He works hard to get to the rim and is the only non-Love guy who is good at getting to the line. He used to shoot too many long twos, but those are fewer and fewer.
   2334. Bitter Mouse Posted: January 12, 2012 at 02:03 PM (#4035200)
How long do I have to wait before I get to take a victory lap on Jimmer, btw?


It is the internet, you don't!

But yeah I am with you on this one.
   2335. Bitter Mouse Posted: January 12, 2012 at 02:04 PM (#4035203)
Edited to remove duplicate. Stupid internet.
   2336. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 12, 2012 at 02:37 PM (#4035254)
How long do I have to wait before I get to take a victory lap on Jimmer, btw?
No bookmarks, so I can't check, but I don't remember a lot of love for Jimmer on Draft Day here. IIRC, there were a lot of comments on where his shots would come from, what with Tyreke, Cousins, and Thornton already there. I guess the ability to run fast and jump high really matter in the NBA.
   2337. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 12, 2012 at 02:41 PM (#4035259)
No bookmarks, so I can't check, but I don't remember a lot of love for Jimmer on Draft Day here. IIRC, there were a lot of comments on where his shots would come from, what with Tyreke, Cousins, and Thornton already there. I guess the ability to run fast and jump high really matter in the NBA.

There wasn't a lot of love, but there were a couple posters who felt Jimmer was being underrated, IIRC.
   2338. Bitter Mouse Posted: January 12, 2012 at 02:44 PM (#4035266)
No bookmarks


:(

And yeah, my memory is not a huge amount of love here, but plenty in the MSM.
   2339. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 12, 2012 at 03:05 PM (#4035297)
How long do I have to wait before I get to take a victory lap on Jimmer, btw?

Oh, and...those of us with Rubio, Irving and/or Brooks crow to eat would prefer you wait.
   2340. steagles Posted: January 12, 2012 at 03:52 PM (#4035375)
How long do I have to wait before I get to take a victory lap on Jimmer, btw?

Oh, and...those of us with Rubio, Irving and/or Brooks crow to eat would prefer you wait.
to the best of my memory, i was optimistic about jimmer and kyrie, pessimistic about rubio, and i liked brooks, but i liked him in the 2nd round, not at 25th overall.
   2341. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 12, 2012 at 03:59 PM (#4035390)
How long do I have to wait before I get to take a victory lap on Jimmer, btw?

More than ten games. Middle of next season seems about right to me.
   2342. The Essex Snead Posted: January 12, 2012 at 04:06 PM (#4035401)
For what it's worth, I was just throwing Knick names out there whose salaries kinda sorta matched what Ridnour is making. & I totally agree that Ridnour could fetch a better return if shopped elsewhere. In that tradition, here's an off-the-dome list of teams that could possibly use a PG of Ridnour's caliber:

New York
Sacramento
Orlando?
Oklahoma City?
LA Lakers?
Dallas? (depending on Kidd's availability)
Chicago? (depending on CJ Watson / Rose)

Add / delete at your leisure.
   2343. JJ1986 Posted: January 12, 2012 at 04:13 PM (#4035417)
Breaking: per NBA league source #Hawks forward Al Horford "pretty much done for the year" w/ shoulder injury


My fantasy team is ######.
   2344. smileyy Posted: January 12, 2012 at 04:18 PM (#4035428)
More than ten games [to evaluate Jimmer]. Middle of next season seems about right to me.


If he were going to be great, I think we'd be seeing more of it by now. "Good" could take longer to develop though.
   2345. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 12, 2012 at 04:31 PM (#4035453)
Chicago? (depending on CJ Watson / Rose)

You didn't see JLIII last night I take it. No, the Bulls have no need or interest in a PG making anywhere near what Ridnour is making.
   2346. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 12, 2012 at 04:50 PM (#4035481)
More than ten games. Middle of next season seems about right to me.
How long did it take to know that Adam Morrison was going to be a total bust? I'm all done being excited about the annual Great White Hope. Kemba Walker's playing horribly for a good-for-nothing, go-nowhere franchise too, but nobody on ESPN has mentioned his name since the draft. I had theorized that he might be something like a Microwave Johnson off the bench, but from what little I've seen of the Kings this season Jimmer doesn't look like he belongs on an NBA roster.
   2347. Bitter Mouse Posted: January 12, 2012 at 04:54 PM (#4035487)
Regarding Jimmer I think he is going to be a bust, but hey it was obvious to me Donyell (Sp? ) Marshal was never going to amount to anything and he slowly but surely fashioned himself into a cromulent ball player (Much to my amazement).
   2348. Jimmy P Posted: January 12, 2012 at 05:03 PM (#4035497)
Regarding Jimmer I think he is going to be a bust

I'm still not sure either way. I am not going to make any judgments for a while, though. The Kings don't play great team ball, Jimmer included, and they went from a coach not well suited to them to an interim. I think his team is definitely playing into it.
   2349. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 12, 2012 at 05:07 PM (#4035498)
If he were going to be great, I think we'd be seeing more of it by now. "Good" could take longer to develop though.

Agreed. Did anyone think he was going to be great, though? I imagined him ending up as something like a variation on JJ Redick - a guy who can make open jumpers and 3s off the bench. A solid rotation guy, but never a star nor a starter on a good team.
   2350. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: January 12, 2012 at 05:16 PM (#4035503)
So Kobe doesn't seem bothered by shooting so many shots or traveling

Well, he would be if the refs ever called it on him...
   2351. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 12, 2012 at 05:18 PM (#4035508)
ESPNSteinLine: Warriors announce that tear in chest/shoulder area will force Kwame Brown to have surgery that will sideline him for at least three months


Hopefully everyone's fantasy seasons survive this.
   2352. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: January 12, 2012 at 05:34 PM (#4035527)
I imagined him ending up as something like a variation on JJ Redick - a guy who can make open jumpers and 3s off the bench. A solid rotation guy, but never a star nor a starter on a good team.


I thought (and I believe said at the time) that he would be a Ben Gordon type player and that I expected him to be a contributor in that mold, with Gordon his like 80th percentile projection. Obviously that hasn't happened yet. But yeah, we're 10 games into an anomalous season and he is on a team that's fired their coach and has all sorts of other problems. Too early to judge. To be honest, given how compacted the schedule is and the lack of training camp, I think it's going to be hard to evaluate any rookie based on their performance this year.
   2353. madvillain Posted: January 12, 2012 at 05:42 PM (#4035536)
Rose apparently doesn't have turf toe but just a big toe sprain. Well that's good because Carlos Boozer had turf toe 7 months ago and still can't jump...
   2354. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: January 12, 2012 at 05:55 PM (#4035551)
Hope Kwame had time to teach Udoh everything he knows.

Horford: Well, we're (Hawks) boned.

I think you should almost always wait until mid-season two. That said, I knew Hurley wouldbe bust before he ever played pro ball, same for Morrison,... sometimes a pick is just bad.
The Fredette pick was bad, but not that bad. IIRC, I had him somewhere around where B-Pro had him (more passing, less shooting).
Proj: 25.0 min, 11.9 pts, 1.8 reb, 2.9 ast, 0.7 stl, 1.8 to, 39% fg, 34% 3pt, 88% ft
Real: 24.2 min, 8.5 pts, 1.6 reb, 2.3 ast, 0.5 stl, 1.8 to, 35% fg, 31% 3pt, 91% ft
Let's give him some time (especially with the mess the Kings are in).
   2355. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 12, 2012 at 05:58 PM (#4035557)
Wasn't Jimmer drafted like 10th anyway? What's the expected ROI at that point?
   2356. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: January 12, 2012 at 06:02 PM (#4035561)
Better than an inefficient high usage tweener with subpar defense.
   2357. rr Posted: January 12, 2012 at 06:11 PM (#4035568)
That is really too bad about Horford.

IIRC, Fredette was the 7th pick.

My read on Fredette is that he will not be as good as Ben Gordon (when Gordon was at his best). For one thing, Gordon is a very strong guy and is a bit bigger than Fredette.

But I think Fredette will be a useful NBA player; as noted, he is in a tough situation right now.
   2358. andrewberg Posted: January 12, 2012 at 06:15 PM (#4035573)
How long did it take to know that Adam Morrison was going to be a total bust?


Jimmer fans better hope that he suffers a debilitating injury that they can blame his lack of development on that.

Hope Kwame had time to teach Udoh everything he knows.


Ha. Apparently Kwame even taught Bynum about getting hurt.

I heard today that Jamal Crawford extended his own NBA record last night with his 34th 4-point play. That's amazing tome.
   2359. madvillain Posted: January 12, 2012 at 06:18 PM (#4035574)
Hope Kwame had time to teach Udoh everything he knows.


Playing Kwame so many minutes, and even bringing him in, was classic "siding with the safe veteran choice to the long term detriment of the team" anyways. Udoh is raw and needs minutes to a) develop and b) see if he's worth keeping around long term.

Blessing in disguise for the Warriors and Jackson.
   2360. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: January 12, 2012 at 06:18 PM (#4035575)
jamal: me too - he's reallllly good at that
   2361. rr Posted: January 12, 2012 at 06:19 PM (#4035577)
Lowe on Miami's crunch time problems in Lob City: \

http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/01/12/crunch-time-failures-cost-heat-again/?sct=hp_wr_a1&eref=sihp
   2362. steagles Posted: January 12, 2012 at 09:19 PM (#4035722)
Stefan Bondy: Nets are just 2-9 without Travis Outlaw about 14 minutes ago


   2363. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 12, 2012 at 10:04 PM (#4035759)
I need to re-evaluate Utah's chances at the 8th spot. I judged them too much on how they looked in that first game here.


I think Hollinger basically agrees: Free Chat
Reality Check (SLC)

Hollinger, the buzz around SLC after the Jazz's loss to the Lakers last night is the Jazz might be a playoff team this year. Can you please help SLC come back down to reality?
John Hollinger (12:21 PM)

Might? I can go with "might." On the other hand, they might not, and that's still the way to bet. Basically they'd have to stay ahead of Memphis and keep the other hopefuls off their tail, and I still have trouble seeing that happening.


I'm also skeptical. I can see Favors really taking off, Burks gets more PT and does well, Howard continues to play well and gets more PT, Harris gets back to his level with NJ, and maybe even Hayward plays decently. None of these would surprise me, but they're not all going to happen and I think they need three of the last four to have a legitimate shot.

Also:
John (New Jersey)

How much longer can Deron play at such a poor level? If he out of shape? Does he hate NJ? Just going through the motions for Dwight?
John Hollinger (12:14 PM)

I was shocked by how mediocre Williams looked when I was up in Jersey at the start of the season, and his play hasn't improved much. He just doesn't seem to have that same burst when he attacks off the dribble, so he's running into a lot more traffic. Very interesting for what it portends for free agency -- hard to sell him as a max guy if he keeps playing like this.


As a D-Will fan this saddens me, though if he is already on the decline the Jazz made one hell of a trade. I was wondering about his awful numbers (.354 FG%, 4.6 TOV, and "only" 8.2 AST), and losing a step could definitely explain that. I think rust from the lockout is less of an excuse for him too since he did play in Turkey. Still, it's early and he's on an atrocious team, so we'll see.
   2364. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 12, 2012 at 10:08 PM (#4035762)
1. Iman Shumpert is playing hilariously bad basketball on the offensive end. He's about 3-14 in his first 14 minutes and these aren't just misses or decent shots that went out. These are terrible, awful, horrendous shots.

2. Tony Allen had a wide open fast break layup, no one back, and somehow...the ball ended up by the 3 point line. Never seen that before at any level of basketball.
   2365. andrewberg Posted: January 12, 2012 at 10:24 PM (#4035771)
D will is probably struggling because he's the only viable offensive option (like Brooks but not as a top line option yet) and he happens to be a distributing pg. bad combo.

Yup. Shump has been funny.
   2366. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: January 12, 2012 at 10:43 PM (#4035792)
Was there any discussion of the Wizards' new logo when it was unveiled? It looks like it was designed by Trey Parker and Matt Stone. Does anyone remember if there was a DC team in BASEketball?

Didn't they just use an old Bullets template and substitute in Wizards? It's much, much, much better than the old logo and color scheme.


Sorry, I should've specified. I was referring to the "dc" version that they use on ESPN. One of these team logos seems just a bit more phallic than the others.

Michael Redd has 8 points on 3-4 fg through the first quarter in his first game of the year for Phoenix.
   2367. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 12, 2012 at 10:51 PM (#4035798)
The Grizzlies defensive strategy is fascinating to me (and perfect for a Knick team without anything approaching a true, non-dead, 1).
   2368. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: January 12, 2012 at 11:03 PM (#4035807)
Iman: Don't say I didn't warn you. Repeatedly.

So, any early word on Carmelo?
   2369. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: January 13, 2012 at 12:03 AM (#4035841)
J.R. Smith's sister visits him in China, J.R. Smith like behavior ensues.
(Seriously, don't do that. Really don't do that at Bayi.)
   2370. tshipman Posted: January 13, 2012 at 12:31 AM (#4035855)
How the hell does Shumpert lead the team in shot attempts?
   2371. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 13, 2012 at 01:07 AM (#4035865)
Shumpert, via twitter:
I put that one on me...I wasn't a PG at all tonight. That was a lousy floor game. OkC next
   2372. Maxwn Posted: January 13, 2012 at 01:16 AM (#4035867)
Went to the Grizz-Thunder on Tuesday and then the Knicks game tonight. They've slowly seemed to figure out how to play on offense with Randolph and probably looked the best they have all season tonight, although I'm not sure how much of it was the Knicks being terrible. Cause they did look terrible. Shumpert's hilarious shot-happy antics have already been mentioned, but I was thoroughly unimpressed with Stoudemire. They were on a home/away back-to-back, but man they were awful. As NJ mentioned, the Grizzlies are really a bad team to play with a weak pg. Conley and Allen are 2 and 4 in steal percentage(last year Allen was 1 and Conley was 9). If you let them they will jump passing lanes, knock balls away and run all over you.

2. Tony Allen had a wide open fast break layup, no one back, and somehow...the ball ended up by the 3 point line. Never seen that before at any level of basketball.

He does that about 15 times a year it seems like. He is maybe the only guy I've ever seen that might be better on the break when he's got somebody around him. It's almost like he can only play at full speed, so if he's wide open and has an easy jogging layup he donks it off the rim or something like that. However, at least anecdotally he seems to have some of his best games when he blows a wide-open fast break early. I don't really know what that's all about.

Rudy Gay finally found his shot and had a tremendous game. The media was on him a bit after the first few games, but I really haven't felt like he was lacking in effort, he just couldn't get his shot to fall and was probably pressing a little after the long layoff and then Z-Bo going down. They need a lot from him with Randolph out, but he's got to avoid trying to do too much. He can get a bit too aggressive at times and wind up forcing up jumpers and dribbling into traffic.

And Marc Gasol once again did a lot of the dirty work on defense and the boards with a 10/12/5/4 pts/reb/asts/blks. I think he is probably their best player with Randolph out, and honestly considering the defensive impact he brings, he might even be their best player including Randolph.

It's going to be tough without Randolph though. They've mostly hung in there in all their losses, that Chicago blowout notwithstanding, but they have tended to hit a stretch some time in the second half where they can't get any turnovers and the offense dies. If you execute on offense during their dry spells you can hold them off and beat them. If Rudy can get going, maybe he can correct some of that, and it helps when O.J. Mayo is as hot as he was tonight, but I'm still hoping they can just go about .500 until Z-Bo gets back.

   2373. Maxwn Posted: January 13, 2012 at 01:22 AM (#4035868)
One other worry I have is that Gasol is playing a ton of minutes. Lionel really shouldn't have let him play 40 tonight. Haddadi's supposed get his work visa situation worked out soon, so maybe Lionel will let him play 5 some once he gets back, but if not, he just needs to let Speights do it more and live with what ever happens. I just don't think they can ride Marc like this all year and if he goes down, they are ######.
   2374. Maxwn Posted: January 13, 2012 at 02:09 AM (#4035879)
although I'm not sure how much of it was the Knicks being terrible

After rereading this sentence, I feel like I should clarify that this is only in reference to the game tonight. I really don't know what to make of the Knicks overall.
   2375. rr Posted: January 13, 2012 at 03:45 AM (#4035898)
Howard went for 45/23 against GS, and they hacked him enough to put him on the line THIRTY-NINE times. He made 21. The FT ATTS are a new NBA record.
   2376. steagles Posted: January 13, 2012 at 11:05 AM (#4036012)
jon leuer made the first start of his career last night for milwaukee. 15 points, 6 rebounds (4 offensive), 5 assists, 2 blocks, on 6/9 shooting in 31 minutes. looks like he needs a primer on crashing the defensive boards, but that probably shouldn't be too much of a worry at this point.


that's a really nice game for him, on top of what's been a really nice start to his rookie season.
   2377. Spivey Posted: January 13, 2012 at 11:28 AM (#4036042)
Milwaukee is not a deep team, but I think they could be fairly good if they stay healthy and Stephen Jackson stays focused. I'm still a very strong believer in Bogut, even though he's fallen out of the limelight a bit.
   2378. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: January 13, 2012 at 01:07 PM (#4036170)
Howard went for 45/23 against GS, and they hacked him enough to put him on the line THIRTY-NINE times. He made 21. The FT ATTS are a new NBA record.


I watched the first half of this game ... apparently it picked up even more in the second half. When they hacked him at the end of the first quarter I realized how good a technique this is. Instead of the opponent getting the last shot, they get a point (on average) and then YOU get the last shot. Pomeroy talks about this a lot in the college case -- he's a proponent of fouling on purpose up 2 at the end of a game -- of course FT percentage is significantly worse there. But with Howard or a similarly bad free throw shooter (like a Haywood or Biedrins) at the end of a quarter I think it's a no-brainer and surprised we don't see that particular hack a lot more often.

I feel bad for Howard. Not because of the embarrassment, but, I mean, like Shaq, the guy is getting mercilessly pounded by a rotating army of stiffs (paging Mike Piazza to a courtesy phone). It can't be nearly as much fun as, you know, getting to play basketball. Enough to drive a guy to take steroids.
   2379. Bitter Mouse Posted: January 13, 2012 at 01:49 PM (#4036212)
I feel bad for Howard. Not because of the embarrassment, but, I mean, like Shaq, the guy is getting mercilessly pounded by a rotating army of stiffs (paging Mike Piazza to a courtesy phone). It can't be nearly as much fun as, you know, getting to play basketball. Enough to drive a guy to take steroids.


QFT. And Mike Crudale, listening to the Beatles.
   2380. rr Posted: January 13, 2012 at 02:58 PM (#4036294)
Hollinger wrote about hack-a-Dwight today. Apparently he says it is not a good strategy.Haven't read it yet. Abbott went in a bold, new, direction, in preparation for Lakers/Clippers tomorrow:

NBA Today: clutch Kobe Bryant vs. Chris Paul:

When the Clippers face the Lakers on Saturday, it's not just a battle for the L.A. bragging rights. It's also a landmark in the evolution of how we think about crunch time in the NBA. Is it about being the guy, or is it about making the best basketball play?[/quote]
   2381. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 13, 2012 at 03:08 PM (#4036311)
I feel bad for Howard. Not because of the embarrassment, but, I mean, like Shaq, the guy is getting mercilessly pounded by a rotating army of stiffs (paging Mike Piazza to a courtesy phone). It can't be nearly as much fun as, you know, getting to play basketball.
I tuned in to the end of the game, and it was not the hot NBA action I was looking for.

I don't feel bad for him, though; if he makes 70%, teams would stop doing it, and if he made 80%, teams would active avoid putting him on the line for fear of a bunch of 3-pt plays. On the NBA podcast the other day, Legler talked about how, when he was on the Wizards, they had a shooting coach who was the same guy who worked with Shaq. During games when Shaq was clanking throws we'd always hear announcers talk about how Shaq would shoot a ton of free throws after practice, and that it wasn't for a lack of effort that he was horrible from the line. According to the shooting coach, Shaq was showing up for FT practice with a cell phone. He'd shoot a couple, then send a few texts, then shoot some more — IOW, he wasn't taking it seriously.

I'm not saying D12 is doing this, but he has the power to stop this type of game plan. I hope he gets it together on the line, though. These games could be completely unwatchable.
   2382. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: January 13, 2012 at 03:15 PM (#4036326)
I read Hollinger and agree. Do think strategy makes sense in a 2-for-1 deal-y.

Hslf listening to an old Hang Up and Listen (sports podcast) - they made a steagles joke/reference (the team, not the guy). Just thought I'd share.
   2383. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 13, 2012 at 03:17 PM (#4036330)
Ugh, I don't know if Abbott's trying to be funny or ironic there, robin, either way he just needs to shut the hell up.

---

Bulls are saying it's a game time decision whether or not Rose plays tonight in Boston. No Hamilton or Watson though. I'd like to see JLIII try to take 28 shots on Rondo tonight (that's not at all true, or what I really want, but if Rose isn't playing, why the hell not). No matter how bad or banged up or whatever the C's are right now, the Bulls have no chance of winning without Rose in the lineup tonight.

EDIT: Rose says he's playing. But he also said he'd play the other night and he didn't.
   2384. Jimmy P Posted: January 13, 2012 at 03:25 PM (#4036341)
Abbott went in a bold, new, direction, in preparation for Lakers/Clippers tomorrow:

Seriously, he's beating the dead horse like Simmons does now.
   2385. rr Posted: January 13, 2012 at 03:26 PM (#4036343)
Seems to me Rose should rest right now if he is not 100%...but what the hell do I know.

Our man DK is boldly participating in the new political thread. Gotta hand it to him. I am burned out on those.

   2386. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: January 13, 2012 at 03:39 PM (#4036354)
I agree on resting Rose and that I don't know what I'm talking about. :)

Politics: I'm due, it's been a few months. Besides, we've got some smart people here, maybe I'll learn something.

I've defended Abbott here, but I rolled my eyes at that one.
   2387. bunyon Posted: January 13, 2012 at 03:40 PM (#4036358)
Our man DK is boldly participating in the new political thread. Gotta hand it to him. I am burned out on those.

Victory is mine!
   2388. steagles Posted: January 13, 2012 at 03:52 PM (#4036374)
Hslf listening to an old Hang Up and Listen (sports podcast) - they made a steagles joke/reference (the team, not the guy). Just thought I'd share.
who doesn't love a little greasy neale?
   2389. Jimmy P Posted: January 13, 2012 at 03:57 PM (#4036379)
I've defended Abbott here, but I rolled my eyes at that one.


I like Abbott, but on this topic, he's just annoying if not petty. If it were truly about crunch time, it'd be ok. But it's not, at least not anymore, now it's about how he doesn't like Kobe. Because Kobe's the only example he ever uses. It's one trick, and he's been doing it for seasons now.
   2390. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: January 13, 2012 at 03:57 PM (#4036380)
who doesn't love a little greasy neale?
That euphemism is thankfully new to me.

Ah, bunyon - you're the most genteel posting Lib on the site.
   2391. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 13, 2012 at 04:11 PM (#4036387)
Seriously, he's beating the dead horse like Simmons does now.


It seems like Abbott has chosen this as his moneyball/Malcolm Gladwell hill to die on, and he's going to flog it until it enters mainstream discourse. As far as causes go, it's not the worst choice, although I would enjoy if he would quit using Kobe quite so constantly as his strawman, as there are plenty of other worthy targets, and differentiation would do his argument good.

Well, that's what I get for taking my time. Coke to Jimmy
   2392. rr Posted: January 13, 2012 at 04:40 PM (#4036420)
and differentiation would do his argument good.


He would do that, if it were entirely about the "argument", but it has been clear for awhile that that isn't the case. It was actually clear a couple of years ago, but it has gotten so blatant now that even many non-Lakers fans are sick of it, and here we actually have a Celtics fan suggesting that maybe Abbott should find another "worthy target."

In terms of actual basketball, I think Kobe should be taking the Lakers' last shots, or setting them up, but they should be doing it by setting him up on the blocks or the elbow,using screens, curls, etc. At his age, with his hands, he simply can't hold the ball 25 feet from the basket, take a guy one-on-one and knock shots down at anywhere near a high enough % to make it a good call. They did that against Utah and he clanked it; Abbott ran a huge picture on his blog of the disastrous last possession 1-on-4 against the Bulls after the Christmas game. How much of that decision-making one wants to put on Bryant and one wants to put on Brown is another issue, but it is a change that needs to happen.

Pelton wrote a long piece in the BaskPro annual defending ISOs as a general, if not necessarily a last-shot, strategy.



   2393. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 13, 2012 at 04:47 PM (#4036429)
I understand why the Abbot thing can be trying, but, in his defense, if you've decided you're going to attack the institution of seconds left on the clock ISO ball, it makes sense to attack the guy who is seen by the vast majority of basketball fans/announcers/analysts/players as THE clutch god.
   2394. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 13, 2012 at 04:54 PM (#4036438)
If it were truly about crunch time, it'd be ok. But it's not, at least not anymore, now it's about how he doesn't like Kobe. Because Kobe's the only example he ever uses. It's one trick, and he's been doing it for seasons now.
Not only does he only use Bryant as his example, he also only uses Chris Paul as the count-example. I would contend that if you're using a player who is putting up close to G.O.A.T. efficiency as your general example, your argument may not be as strong as it should be.

Abbott's a big Portland fan. I'm not saying Kobe's two impossible iso 3-pointers at the end of regulation and OT got under Abbott's skin a little, but I bet they still sting.
   2395. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: January 13, 2012 at 04:58 PM (#4036445)
Guess who is contemplating a comeback? Sheed!
   2396. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 13, 2012 at 05:03 PM (#4036449)
RE: Abbott

I think my point is that you shouldn't use historically great players to prove a general point. How many Kobe Bryants are there in the league, now or ever? Up to this point in his career, healthy Chris Paul has been arguably playing at an all-time top-5 level; he's uniquely gifted in the league. These are not the players you should be using to argue for or against a general point.
   2397. rr Posted: January 13, 2012 at 05:22 PM (#4036467)
it makes sense to attack the guy who is seen by the vast majority of basketball fans/announcers/analysts/players as THE clutch god.


Sure, it makes sense if Kobe getting a lot of adulation BOTHERS YOU. If you are really just interested in knowledge, etc, as Abbott claims to be, Kobe is just one point in the argument.

Maybe one could say it made sense the first 10 or 12 times. But Abbott, has, literally, written about this 25 or so times since the first 3000-comment bonanza last January before the Super Bowl, and in the wake of that, openly announced his intentions to do so.

Also, Abbott has never, to my knowledge, given LeBron any crap for poor crunch-time optics, numbers, or hero-ball shots. After James and the Heat took the down the Bulls with, in part, some hero-ball action in the ECF, Abbott wrote a post entitled, "Looking for the new Michael Jordan? Found Him" and then when the Finals proved that was a little premature, never really blamed James for any issues in the Finals, never reconsidered the statement, and never broke down James' and Dirk's fourth-quarter Finals numbers, which were a key part of the narrative of that series. He did, however, write a post a couple of weeks after the Finals saying the Lakers should consider amnestying Kobe because he was obviously headed for a steep decline.

In the present, Miami has had back-to-back 4th quarter meltdowns, and Zach Lowe, as I linked here, wrote about it. The Lakers meanwhile have won four straight with Kobe averaging 36 a game and shooting 50%. Yet Abbott podcasted about the Kobe clutch thing again today, complete with the subtle dig at Kobe's character. Maybe he talked about the Heat in the actual pod, I don't know. But ISTM, like it did to Lowe, (a Boston fan, BTW) that Miami in the clutch is a more interesting basketball topic for today. Abbott,I think, has some things on his mind other than basketball.
   2398. andrewberg Posted: January 13, 2012 at 05:26 PM (#4036473)
There's another part of the Abbott thing where the circumstances seem to suggest that he never would have found this horse to ride had it not been for his dislike of Kobe. I guess we can never know if that's truly the case, but I agree that it smells like he only gets so excited about this topic because the stats tend to undercut the perceived greatness of a player whose greatness he really enjoys undercutting.
   2399. rr Posted: January 13, 2012 at 05:29 PM (#4036478)
These are not the players you should be using to argue for or against a general point.

______________________________

True. Also, as noted here (including by you) and in many places, Abbott is really talking about "last shots" more than "crunch time."
   2400. rr Posted: January 13, 2012 at 05:30 PM (#4036479)
soon to be Former Wizards' coach Flip Saunders
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