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Friday, December 02, 2011

NBA THREAD DECEMBER: POST-LOCKOUT

With the lockout over, I estimate that there may be more than 10-12 Primates who want to talk about the NBA, and with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: fractional reserve banking, and Tim Tebow.

rr Posted: December 02, 2011 at 12:26 AM | 3254 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: general

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   2401. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: January 13, 2012 at 05:52 PM (#4036509)
Not only does he only use Bryant as his example, he also only uses Chris Paul as the count-example. I would contend that if you're using a player who is putting up close to G.O.A.T. efficiency as your general example, your argument may not be as strong as it should be.

Did you read this? (not a counter or anything, but funny because of the timing)

---

So let me get this straight, robin. After knowing what you know about Abbott and what he feels about Kobe, you still 1. Read something he wrote about the Lakers today AND 2. Listened to his podcast today. Did you win the lottery or something and felt the need to punish yourself?
   2402. rr Posted: January 13, 2012 at 06:00 PM (#4036526)
No, I didn't listen to the pod--that is why I said that I don't know if he talked about the Heat. And all he wrote about it today was pretty much what I copied and pasted here. I brought it up because I thought it was funny that he went to the well today. It is not, at the moment, really a topic on anyone's mind that I am aware of. If Kobe had had a couple of more Denver games this week, I could see it. But IMO, going there right now, today, (for the reasons I described in the previous post) simply looks petty.

And there are many other angles for tomorrow night's game. The first LAL/LAC post-Paul game is full of storylines and analytics.
   2403. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: January 13, 2012 at 06:55 PM (#4036586)
There’s another part of the Abbott thing where the circumstances seem to suggest that he never would have found this horse to ride had it not been for his dislike of Kobe. I guess we can never know if that’s truly the case, but I agree that it smells like he only gets so excited about this topic because the stats tend to undercut the perceived greatness of a player whose greatness he really enjoys undercutting.


It’s pretty obvious he dislikes Kobe. It puts him into a very large group of people, and I wouldn’t have a problem with his except he keeps trying to justify his distain for Bryant by claiming there’s an analytical rational for it.

Abbott’s whole thing is that he wants teams to run plays at the end of games. That’s great, but the ball has to start with someone, and that someone has to be capable of running the offense. By default, you’re going to want that ball in the hands of your quarterback, someone who can handle the ball, who can beat his guy off the dribble, who has shooting range to draw the defense, who can pass if possible and score if necessary, who can break down a double-team, who can any number of things necessary to start a set play against a set defense. If you have someone like Paul, then congrats, you’re probably going to be successful more often than not because Paul can do all those things.

Most teams don’t have that guy, and lots of teams don’t even have half that guy. The Lakers happen to have a really great player to give the ball to, but that guy isn’t a point guard, he’s a shooting guard. Bryant’s strength has always been to score buckets, and he’s great at it. He’s good enough at all the other stuff to trick people into thinking he can be Magic Johnson when he “wants” to be (read: “when he isn’t a selfish prick”), but he’s not that guy.

What’s most annoying is that Abbott’s conceded numerous times that it’s not really the players’ fault that they’re not running a play, it’s the coaches’ fault. The head coach is suppose to draw something up, tell the guys what to do. If you just leave it up to a shooting guard who also happens to be the best combination of dribbling, passing, shooting, and everything else on the roster, and then you don’t run a play for him, why is it so shocking that the guy ends up going to what he’s strongest at, shooting the ball? It’s a very basic, and very stupid, criticism of the player.
   2404. madvillain Posted: January 13, 2012 at 07:24 PM (#4036603)
Most teams don’t have that guy, and lots of teams don’t even have half that guy. The Lakers happen to have a really great player to give the ball to, but that guy isn’t a point guard, he’s a shooting guard. Bryant’s strength has always been to score buckets, and he’s great at it. He’s good enough at all the other stuff to trick people into thinking he can be Magic Johnson when he “wants” to be (read: “when he isn’t a selfish prick”), but he’s not that guy.


Bingo. If Kobe had a conscious he'd probably be just another guy. It's his belief-- that the next one is always going in, that makes him the great player that he is.

Watching Rose try to walk the tightrope between "getting his" and "setting others up" is fascinating. In year 1 he was two passive. In year 2 he got better but was still too passive. In year 3 he had it dead right for about 60 games then under the smothering defense of the Heat and the fatigue of the playoffs, he got a little too shot happy.

It's part of the beauty of basketball, watching great players try and walk the line.
   2405. steagles Posted: January 13, 2012 at 07:47 PM (#4036616)

Most teams don’t have that guy, and lots of teams don’t even have half that guy.
fortunately for the sixers, they have 9 of that guy.
   2406. kpelton Posted: January 13, 2012 at 08:06 PM (#4036629)
Pelton wrote a long piece in the BaskPro annual defending ISOs as a general, if not necessarily a last-shot, strategy.

The original intent was two parts--isos in general, and isos in last-second situations. I talked with Synergy, but unfortunately they were unable to pull the relevant numbers for which teams ran isos the most in clutch situations.

Without the numbers, I think it's difficult to mentally balance the positives of isolating at the end of games (getting a shot off, low turnovers) with the way they limit your chances of getting an easy shot. Both sides can use confirmation bias to believe they're right.
   2407. steagles Posted: January 13, 2012 at 08:28 PM (#4036642)
jrue holiday turned the ball over twice in the first 3 sixers possessions, and was replaced by lou williams 1:48 into the 1st quarter.


since then, they're 8/8 from the field and they've opened up an 8 point lead about 8 minutes in.
   2408. rr Posted: January 13, 2012 at 09:11 PM (#4036681)
with his except he keeps trying to justify his distain for Bryant by claiming there’s an analytical rational for it.


Exactly. That, and the fact that he is national. Local guys at team blogs saying Kobe is a selfish punk and a rapist...IMO kind of dumb, but fair enough. Here is Kelly Dwyer, after the Utah game, emphasis mine:

Every shot has to be the "three … two … one … Bryant for the win …"-type that kids take by themselves while shooting away on the playground.

This is why both men are unsuccessful.(*Dwyer was trying to do a dual psychological portrait of James and Bryant. Mike Brown, of course,is getting asked to compare them. He also tried to explain their successes).

You heard me. This is why, and not because of a glaring lack of depth, that the Lakers fell in 2003 and 2004. They could have taken the Spurs and Pistons in those years. This is why things didn't work out last May, against Dallas (Los Angeles couldn't grab one game? Come on) in the playoffs.


I have explained this a few times, but here are the Lakers DRTGs and ORTGs for 2003 and 2004:

DRTG 19TH 8TH
ORTG 4TH 6TH

Shaq passed 30 in 2003, delayed toe surgery, and showed up weighing 400 pounds. They could not defend P/R at all. Kupchak did a lousy job with the bench, and the Spurs, with a peak Duncan, beat them and went on to the title. Adding Payton and Malone, they improved on D in 2004. Everyone knows the story from there, and everyone saw last year's playoffs.

This is what set Dwyer off:

Here's Kobe Wednesday night, after dropping scoring totals that he's probably quicker to remember than his own Social Security number:


"I scored back-to-back 40's with a [bleeped]-up wrist," Bryant said, his eyes still gleaming at the just-completed achievement. "What does it matter if it's still [bleeped]-up in the playoffs?"

It's always been about the "40" with him. Yes, he's super "serious-minded," but to what individual end? For years, Phil Jackson chafed at Bryant for preferring to look the 40-dropping martyr in a loss over a marginalized cog (at least, that's how Kobe probably took it) in a win, and even 15 years into his career Bryant is still working under his same showy, soap-opera guidelines.


Obnoxious and arrogant quote from the Mamba? Sure. Kobe was asked if his wrist would be OK for the playoffs and he bristled at the question. But of course Phil came back and they won two titles and three conference titles and this year, for the moment, at least, Kobe and his wrist are well ahead of the Haters.

But the point is that Dwyer and Abbott can't just say, "I don't like this guy because he is obnoxious and arrogant and I don't like the way he plays." Instead, they try to justify biased and visceral reactions based on, well, "basketball reasons." It produces both bad analysis and twisted facts.



   2409. rr Posted: January 13, 2012 at 09:38 PM (#4036731)
b2b with the Wiz will get STEAGLES' guys well in a hurry.
   2410. steagles Posted: January 13, 2012 at 09:55 PM (#4036746)
b2b with the Wiz will get STEAGLES' guys well in a hurry.
the sixers were fine. there was nothing wrong that needed to get well. they didn't lose to the knicks because of spencer hawes or because of a lack of energy or effort. they lost because they just didn't have their legs underneath them in the 3rd game of a back-to-back-to-back, and they were just a hair off on the shots that they've drilled all year.


still, it's always good to see your team up 34 coming out of the 3rd quarter.
   2411. rr Posted: January 13, 2012 at 10:53 PM (#4036808)
Blake out, McRoberts, Murphy, Kapono in vs. Cleveland


The Lakers aren't going to run out of white guys this year.
   2412. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: January 13, 2012 at 10:53 PM (#4036809)
The Wizards have played 11 games, and have now lost by 14 or more points six times. That's more than half their games. They quit at halftime. Hell, they probably quit before they got to the arena. They are the worst, most gutless, selfish, uncaring, undisciplined professional basketball team I've ever see. I can't believe they even get uniform. If I were a fan of theirs before, I'd quit being a fan today. Hell, I'm not even a fan, and I hate that squad.

I didn't even think it was quite that bad until I watched that game against the Wolves last week. They shot 35%, not so much because the Wolves brought the iron curtain defense, but because they're stupid. They take bad shots all the time. Their ball movement, when there is any, is horrible. They don't set good picks, they don't cut well, they don't run to ball, they don't help each other out. They're just a bunch of tall guys who can run fast and jump high, and that lets them hang around for a quarter or three before actual grown-up professional men bear down and and then they roll over like dogs. None of these guys, not Wall, not McGee, certainly not Blatche, are going to have notable careers. They're losers. They saw Chicago on the bill on Wednesday and rolled over. They saw the Sixers tonight, and rolled over. They're ####### losers. Their games shouldn't even count. I hate them so much.
   2413. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: January 13, 2012 at 10:55 PM (#4036810)
Boston getting back into it.
   2414. rr Posted: January 13, 2012 at 10:57 PM (#4036812)
the sixers were fine. there was nothing wrong that needed to get well


It is just an expression. Also, you called 115 on the Knicks and they scored 79. We all have our hobby horses (I have been riding mine here all day) but you might want to tone it down just a little.
   2415. rr Posted: January 13, 2012 at 11:03 PM (#4036815)
One-point game.
   2416. steagles Posted: January 13, 2012 at 11:15 PM (#4036828)
55% from the floor, 12/18 from beyond the arc, 7 players in double figures, plus thad young with 8. jodie meeks led the way with 26 points on 10/11 from the floor, 6/7 from beyond the arc. 8 players with >2 assists, led by lou williams with 6.

there really wasn't a single player who had a bad game, though jrue holiday did not cover himself in glory (5/15 from the floor, 12 points, 2 assists, 2 turnovers).


tomorrow is going to be the sixers' 7th game in 9 days, but at least washington is going to be on the back end of the back-to-back.

anyway, 8-3 isn't a bad way to start the season, even accounting for the lack of wins against high-quality competition. i know i said that they'd start off 9-0, but 8-3 does put them almost exactly on pace for the 47 wins i penciled in for them.
   2417. steagles Posted: January 13, 2012 at 11:23 PM (#4036835)
they're stupid
that's what it is. there's no need for any other vitriol. they're young, they're inexperienced, they're immature, and they really have an incredibly low basketball IQ.

there's really no reason to say anything more than that. it's not all on the players, the management deserves a ton of blame for putting the team together in the way it is.

the quality of the individual pieces is not bad (wall and mcgee are elite athletes, nick young is a solid gunner. singelton and booker are guys who'll be in the league for 10 years), but all of them, wall, young, crawford, blatche just have exactly the same weaknesses in their game, and the combination of having them all on the floor at the same time exacerbates their individual weaknesses to the point that the team itself is just absolutely terrible.


   2418. Into the Void Posted: January 13, 2012 at 11:27 PM (#4036837)
55% from the floor, 12/18 from beyond the arc, 7 players in double figures, plus thad young with 8. jodie meeks led the way with 26 points on 10/11 from the floor, 6/7 from beyond the arc. 8 players with >2 assists, led by lou williams with 6.


You realize we can all read box scores if we so desire right? Just a thought, but it's probably not necessary to post stats and game updates, multiple times per game, for every single game the Sixers play.
   2419. andrewberg Posted: January 13, 2012 at 11:29 PM (#4036838)
Love finally missed a FT on his 18th try. He is 17-18 and the Hornets are 8-16. He also kept his streak alive of having to take a few seconds to compose himself after an eye gouge for the 11th straight game to open the season. It's like he's being guarded by Ric Flair every night.

The way the refs are calling the game is making it really hard to defend Rubio. He is getting up into guys forcing them to body him, then the refs are calling the contact any time he turns a corner. Since it is so hard to pick his pocket, they're playing off of him, which gives him great passing lanes. He has 9 assists, but he'd probably have 13+ if anyone on the team could make a freaking wide open corner three.

The refs missed a blatant goal tend that turned into a transition three going the other way. Almost swayed the game, but the Wolves executed in the last three minutes (an improvement), to win 87-80. The Hornets aren't good, but they're real pros, so I'll happily take the road win.
   2420. andrewberg Posted: January 13, 2012 at 11:31 PM (#4036840)
Human victory cigar being lit AGAINST the Celtics. That's gotta sting.
   2421. andrewberg Posted: January 13, 2012 at 11:40 PM (#4036848)
John Leuer's second shot at starting, not so hot. 0-2, 2 fouls, 1 reb in 8 minutes.
   2422. madvillain Posted: January 13, 2012 at 11:50 PM (#4036860)
You realize we can all read box scores if we so desire right? Just a thought, but it's probably not necessary to post stats and game updates, multiple times per game, for every single game the Sixers play.


I don't mind it. It keeps this thread busy.

Rose was rusty to start but lit up the Celtics in the 4th. Boston better be careful or they are going to find themselves in the dreaded mediocre zone. They should cash in on Allen this year. A trade to the Bulls would make a lot of sense.

Noah finally played well despite missing about 4 layups he was a factor on the glass and on defense all night long. Luol Deng is a god damn iron man. He has to in the top 5% of all NBA players as far as cardio conditioning. Even Boozer played a hard working, smart game. And guess what -- him and Noah closed out the game. Well mostly Rose closed out the game, those guys helped, but they were along for the ride.
   2423. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: January 14, 2012 at 12:28 AM (#4036882)
He also kept his streak alive of having to take a few seconds to compose himself after an eye gouge for the 11th straight game to open the season. It's like he's being guarded by Ric Flair every night.
Spectacular. Kudos to you, sir!
   2424. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: January 14, 2012 at 12:44 AM (#4036885)
Bryant has 24 points on 9-13 shooting at the half. Bynum is 6-6 shooting, 5 boards. The SoCal chatter was that the Lakers might be looking ahead to the Clipper match-up, and tonight's game might be a trap; that's obviously not the case. Irving doesn't look too bad, but his guys can't buy a basket right now.
   2425. andrewberg Posted: January 14, 2012 at 01:19 AM (#4036896)
When I have seen Irving, I have been impressed with what he does when he has space to operate. He is deceptively quick and moves very efficiently. On the other hand, he has struggled when guys get more physical with him. With his experience level, it's not surprising that he has not learned how to deal with grown men pushing back against him. I think he will learn how to deal with it, and he will certainly have to do it because everyone is going to play hi that way until he adapts.
   2426. tshipman Posted: January 14, 2012 at 01:30 AM (#4036901)
Irving's numbers so far this year are quite good--per 36 minutes he's averaging 22.2 points, 7 assists and 4.6 rebounds.

He has some issues with foul trouble (3.9 per 36) and with TO's (4.3 per 36), but you'd expect the TO issue for a first year PG. He's looking like a potential future first-team NBA guy (if he gets the TO's under control and improves the assists).

He doesn't seem anywhere near as lackluster as the draft reports made him out to be.
   2427. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: January 14, 2012 at 01:43 AM (#4036908)
Why is this a ballgame, Lakers? This shouldn't be a ballgame.
   2428. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: January 14, 2012 at 01:53 AM (#4036916)
Bryant's hit 40 again (15-30 shooting so far, 6-17 in the 2ned half). Overshooting, obviously, but the offense was pretty uninspiring when he was off the floor. Unlike with the triangle offense, everything starts and ends with him, and I think that's the way he likes it.
   2429. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 14, 2012 at 02:06 AM (#4036920)
Nuggets blowing the Heat out. Wade left the game midway through the 4th with an ankle injury.
   2430. rr Posted: January 14, 2012 at 02:57 AM (#4036931)
Good example of a Lakers game in which:

a) Kobe shot a little too much.
b) It wasn't the main problem.

a) Bynum was 7/9; basically, Kobe should just look at how big the other team's center is, and that should decide how many times he gives the rock to Bynum. When the other guy is close to Bynum's size (Kwame Brown, Marc Gasol) Bynum often has trouble. When it's a guy like Anderson Varejao (who is a pretty good player,actually) Bynum is often just too big and too long in the arms for the other team to keep him from shooting below 60% from the floor on 15-17 shots if he gets the ball in decent spots. But many times he doesn't get those 15-17 shots. And yeah, I think Kobe wanted 40 and the other guys went along with that.
b) But the Lakers' backup SGs are Kapono and Goudelock--both of whom are borderline NBA players at best and neither of whom is a legit backup shooting guard or even really a shooting guard at all. Neither of them is a guy you can play more than about 8 minutes. With Steve Blake expected to be out until February, the Lakers PGs are Fisher and Morris. Fisher did about as much he can--he moved the ball well, had 10 assists and no TOs. But he is not a threat to score and doesn't do much to keep the other team's PG out of the paint. Morris will have an NBA career, but he is a 20-year-old rookie and not destined for the ASG. Something I bittched about in pre-season--signing Kapono instead of Delonte West, who also signed a one-year deal for the minimum (with Dallas) AFTER the Lakers signed Kapono--looks even worse now.

Barnes has played well enough to cover the 3, for now, but that is still a pretty weak position. Brown, as is his wont, gives different guys DNP-CDs. Tonight it was MWP.

So, I am hearing a lot of Lakers fans bittching about Kobe's not passing, or Gasol's not being tough, or Bynum's not doing whatever. But the real problem is that the roster beyond those three guys is mostly a pile of crap with no one who can instigate offense.(McRoberts helps a bit and Barnes is doing as much as he can. Ebanks didn't do much tonight, but he hadn't played at all really in about two weeks. But overall it's not enough).

Here is a goofy little question for the digital age: what does Simmons do tomorrow night? The Lakers/Clippers game is a Clippers home game, so he has tickets. I assume he attends and skips Tebow/Brady. Denver/New England is on in prime time, 5 pm Pacific.
   2431. madvillain Posted: January 14, 2012 at 03:02 AM (#4036932)
Irving's numbers so far this year are quite good--per 36 minutes he's averaging 22.2 points, 7 assists and 4.6 rebounds.

He has some issues with foul trouble (3.9 per 36) and with TO's (4.3 per 36), but you'd expect the TO issue for a first year PG. He's looking like a potential future first-team NBA guy (if he gets the TO's under control and improves the assists).

He doesn't seem anywhere near as lackluster as the draft reports made him out to be.


Personally, I blew him off about 5 pages ago, then went out and drafted him for my fantasy team.

I've watched him quite a bit since, and I think a bunch of us, myself included, got a bit caught up in a) the measurable and b) forgetting how much more space there is in the pro game. Players that are quick, even if they can't really jump, can get where they want to be. Irving is quick, and has good vision. His shooting has surprised me. Even if he regresses a bit from the outside he's still proven he can be an effective starter.

If he's an effective starter at only 19 (yea, shocked me, figured he was at least 20), the sky is the limit.

I don't think he'll ever best Paul or Rose, but he can certainly join the line of great pgs behind those two.
   2432. mike f Posted: January 14, 2012 at 03:37 AM (#4036934)
Here is a goofy little question for the digital age: what does Simmons do tomorrow night? The Lakers/Clippers game is a Clippers home game, so he has tickets. I assume he attends and skips Tebow/Brady. Denver/New England is on in prime time, 5 pm Pacific.

He's going to a wedding.
   2433. rr Posted: January 14, 2012 at 03:59 AM (#4036938)
He's going to a wedding.


I think it's funny that someone here knows that, but there it is. Doesn't sound like much of a Sports Guy to me.
   2434. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: January 14, 2012 at 04:24 AM (#4036943)
I think it's funny that someone here knows that, but there it is. Doesn't sound like much of a Sports Guy to me.


He mentioned it in his latest mailbag.
   2435. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 14, 2012 at 12:14 PM (#4036999)
Watching the UConn-Notre Dame game. Every time I see Jeremy Lamb play I just think he's going to be great at the NBA level. Ford has him as the 3rd ranked wing (9th overall). I'm certain I would draft him over Barnes, who I've also seen a lot of, but I haven't seen Bradley Beal play. Anyone here have an opinion on Beal?
   2436. rr Posted: January 14, 2012 at 12:17 PM (#4037000)
Yeah, well, he should blow off the wedding and watch the games!

Obviously, I don't read the mailbag.

______________

I note that STEAGLES says he has the 76ers checking in at 47-19. If that actually happens, they are pretty much a lock for the 3rd seed. I suppose Orlando could win that many...seems unlikely. Miami and Chicago won't win very many more than that, even if they stay healthy.
   2437. steagles Posted: January 14, 2012 at 03:56 PM (#4037092)
how have the clippers only played 8 games so far? looking at their future schedule, they've got 21 games in 31 days in march, and 15 games in 25 days in april.

i guess that's a good thing for them, since it should allow for some practice time for the new parts familiarize themselves, and i guess it's also a good thing, since the team would figure to be playing its best basketball later in the season, but still, that schedule does not look like it'll be doing them any favors come playoff time.


mfranknba: Flip Saunders on #Sixers: "That's why they're 1 of the elite teams. They didn't take their foot off the pedal the whole game."
   2438. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 14, 2012 at 10:02 PM (#4037221)
You know...the Thunder, for being America's team, they kind of carry themselves like ########. Maybe I wouldn't say this if they weren't kicking the Knicks' ass right now, but still.
   2439. rr Posted: January 14, 2012 at 10:18 PM (#4037226)
You know...the Thunder, for being America's team, they kind of carry themselves like ########.


Heh. There will be some Clipper backlash within about a year and a half, once people remember they play in a big market and Sterling's profile gets a little higher.

I can't see Flip Saunders lasting much longer.
   2440. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 14, 2012 at 10:24 PM (#4037230)
Kind of hard to root for your team when you find yourself hating so many of the players. Only 3.5 more years and then we can blow this up and start again.
   2441. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: January 14, 2012 at 11:07 PM (#4037241)
I've watched a fair amount of Brad Beal this year. His outside shooting has been a bit disappointing, especially for someone who got Ray Allen comparisons coming to school. I was certainly hoping for a bit more than 30 percent from beyond the arc. And he's committed more turnovers than you'd like to see. But as a general rule he's been a really solid all-around player, doing a little bit of everything. He's an outstanding on-ball defender, a good rebounder for a guard and a really unselfish player. Beal's sort of the platonic ideal of what Bill James was talking about when he said guys with broad-based skillsets tend to get underrated in comparison to specialists: he hasn't really done anything extraordinary, and Beal doesn't have the kind of explosive athleticism that really stands out on a basketball court. He seems like someone who could be, say, the third best player on a championship team.
   2442. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 14, 2012 at 11:13 PM (#4037244)
[2441] Thanks.
   2443. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: January 14, 2012 at 11:13 PM (#4037245)
the kings have 23 at halftime, helped by 8-46 shooting from the field. only 13 of those points aren't off fast breaks.
   2444. steagles Posted: January 15, 2012 at 12:35 AM (#4037271)
i'm not sure, but i believe i just saw jason kapono yelling at andrew bynum.


   2445. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: January 15, 2012 at 12:44 AM (#4037272)
gustavo ayon got his first non-scrub time for noh the last two nights, in part due to a lot of dudes being in foul trouble, and acquitted himself well.
33 min, 16/11/5, 2 stl, 3 blk.
not sure how he gets a role above 5th big (okafor, kaman, landry, j.smith have all been solid this year), but this could be an omen of things to come, at least next season.
   2446. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 15, 2012 at 01:09 AM (#4037274)
D-Will played his first game in Utah since he was traded and it wasn't pretty. 3-15 with 16 points, 5 assists, and 5 turnovers. The fans were more disappointing, however. Either there are a lot of idiots in Utah who believe it's all his fault Sloan retired (as stupid as the Fisher lied people), or they believe anyone who leaves the Jazz, no matter what they did for the team and community, deserves to be treated like crap.

The Nets are just an awful, awful team. I don't see why Howard would go there, and I don't see why D-Will would re-sign without him.
   2447. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: January 15, 2012 at 01:55 AM (#4037275)
These LA teams really don't seem to like each other very much.

As a sign that offense is down this year, the Bulls have not lost at home despite scoring just 85.4 points per home game. They've held their opponents to 66.8 points per game in Chicago.

Kind of hard to root for your team when you find yourself hating so many of the players. Only 3.5 more years and then we can blow this up and start again.

Honestly, if Steve Nash signs with the Knicks this summer as many suspect he will, they will be easy to root for and fun to watch next year. They'll also be a lot better as long as they stay healthy. Despite all the speculation of his impending demise, Nash is still ridiculously effective. Just check out Marcin Gortat's league-leading field goal percentage (by a wide margin).
   2448. Into the Void Posted: January 15, 2012 at 02:10 PM (#4037372)
Honestly, if Steve Nash signs with the Knicks this summer as many suspect he will, they will be easy to root for and fun to watch next year.


The question is will D'Antoni still be around by next summer? If he's not I'm not so sure Nash to the Knicks is a sure thing. I'd have to think his main interest is winning a championship so a team like the Lakers might be a lot more enticing.
   2449. steagles Posted: January 15, 2012 at 02:33 PM (#4037381)
The question is will D'Antoni still be around by next summer? If he's not I'm not so sure Nash to the Knicks is a sure thing. I'd have to think his main interest is winning a championship so a team like the Lakers might be a lot more enticing.
even without dantoni, i think the knicks are a no-brainer. they have absolutely nothing at the position, plus they have douglas and shumpert, both of whom can defend tougher PGs, and they have tyson chandler, who should mitigate at least some of nash's defensive issues.


even if they get nash, they're still an island of misfit toys, but they're really the only team (besides utah) who would be significantly upgraded by nash's addition. with everyone else, he either wouldn't be the best PG on the roster (LAC, BOS, CHI, DEN, OKC, HOU), or there'd be continuity issues (LAL, POR, PHI, SAS), or he'd be blocking a yonuger player on a team that wouldn't be ready to compete anyway (MIL, IND, CLE). plus there's the issue of his porous defense.

the only teams that are left after all of that are the knicks, magic, hawks, mavericks, and jazz. the magic and mavericks are in a state of dwight howard induced limbo, and the hawks are up against the luxury tax.

maybe i'm missing something here, but the knicks really do just seem to be the best fit.



also, there's apparently been talks between memphis and new jersey about a mayo for morrow swap. i think new jersey is in on this just to shed morrow's salary. memphis would be in on it to add the extra 3 pt shooter.

   2450. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: January 15, 2012 at 02:35 PM (#4037382)
The question is will D'Antoni still be around by next summer? If he's not I'm not so sure Nash to the Knicks is a sure thing. I'd have to think his main interest is winning a championship so a team like the Lakers might be a lot more enticing.
Not sure that would happen. The Lakers will be busy paying Fisher, Blake, and Walton around $13.5 million.
   2451. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: January 15, 2012 at 03:42 PM (#4037410)
By the way, if anyone's wondering what BTF Laker fan reaction was to the Lakers-Clippers game last night... I recorded it, but couldn't bear to watch more than the first five minutes. Seeing Paul run up and down the court against the Lakers in Staples turned my stomach. I turned it off, for basketball reasons.

So I checked back this morning, looked at the box score and saw that he wrecked the Lakers last night. Whatever, man. What the #### ever.
   2452. tshipman Posted: January 15, 2012 at 04:16 PM (#4037430)
By the way, if anyone's wondering what BTF Laker fan reaction was to the Lakers-Clippers game last night... I recorded it, but couldn't bear to watch more than the first five minutes. Seeing Paul run up and down the court against the Lakers in Staples turned my stomach. I turned it off, for basketball reasons.


The bigs played like ####. Kobe dominated the ball, but did good work, especially late.

Really bad performance by the bigs to give up 17 (might have been more) offensive boards. Box out Blake Griffin FFS!
   2453. PJ Martinez Posted: January 15, 2012 at 05:58 PM (#4037486)
Maybe it goes without saying but the other reason Nash to the Knicks makes sense is because he spends his summers in New York and apparently loves it there. The post-NBA entertainment career (behind the camera, producing) that he's already begun presumably makes LA (as well as New York) attractive, so the Lakers do seem like a possibility, too -- but New York is probably the front-runner, even if D'Antoni's gone.
   2454. rr Posted: January 15, 2012 at 05:58 PM (#4037488)
Gasol and Bynum have never boxed out; Reggie Evans is the kind of guy who makes you pay for that.

MWP has two more player options, so he is on the books for about 7M next year as well. Those four contracts,as I have been trying to explain to people who are not as informed as the crowd here, as well (in a different way) as Kobe's and Pau's gargantuan extensions, are a far bigger problem than anything Kobe, Bynum, and Gasol fail to do game to game. They have their faults, but it is the old Bill James thing of blaming your best players when things don't look good. If the Lakers had a league-average pass-first PG and a competent backup 2, they would look different.

And yes, watching Paul do his thing really seriously sucked for Lakers fans.

Given that ORL is 8-3, is hosting the ASG, and that Howard is supposedly trying to get Williams to Orlando, nothing is going to happen with that until the deadline IMO. So, Lakers fans just have to take the lumps (more are coming--the schedule gets harder now) and then hope Kupchak/Buss can either snag Howard,(seems unlikely but could happen) or failing that, get a decent guard with the TPE. Not much to see here, other than the Kobe show, the Bynum thing, and how Darius Morris does--he will get some PT with Steve Blake out.

   2455. madvillain Posted: January 15, 2012 at 06:53 PM (#4037520)
I found this interesting:

https://twitter.com/#!/mcten/

Kobe said after the game that Chris Paul & Derrick Rose are the only other players in the league with the same competitive edge that he has
   2456. Quaker Posted: January 15, 2012 at 11:18 PM (#4037710)
Millsap is no worse than the third best PF in the league. I think it's Love/Gasol/Paul.
   2457. Eddo Posted: January 15, 2012 at 11:28 PM (#4037716)
Griffin?
   2458. steagles Posted: January 15, 2012 at 11:33 PM (#4037720)
Millsap is no worse than the third best PF in the league. I think it's Love/Gasol/Paul.
aldridge, griffin, bosh, and stoudemire would have to be in the conversation as well.
   2459. Quaker Posted: January 15, 2012 at 11:43 PM (#4037725)
I forgot about Aldridge. I'll take Sap over the others though.
   2460. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: January 16, 2012 at 12:13 AM (#4037737)
Popovich is so good. He is playing the matchups perfectly and, as always, the Spurs are incredibly disciplined, methodically efficient, and not doing random dumb ####.
   2461. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: January 16, 2012 at 02:05 AM (#4037765)
Millsap is no worse than the third best PF in the league. I think it's Love/Gasol/Paul.


aldridge, griffin, bosh, and stoudemire would have to be in the conversation as well.

Wait, what happened to Dirk??? Has he somehow transcended the PF position and thus become ineligible for such rankings?
   2462. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: January 16, 2012 at 02:10 AM (#4037767)
On Millsap:

"Yeah, he got it going," Denver forward Al Harrington said. "Nothing I could do about it, either. Usually I can cut a guy's wood off. He's a good player and he had a great fourth quarter, so tip my hat off to him. Good job."


Haven't heard that one before...
   2463. The Essex Snead Posted: January 16, 2012 at 09:33 AM (#4037806)
Yeah, Milsap is very good, but he's not top 3 good. At the very least (as folks have mentioned), Dirk, LA, and Bosh are ahead of him. & if Griffin can develop his jumper, and Amare learns how to play defense (ha?), then Milsap falls behind them as well. Not that being one of the top 7-10 PFs in the NBA is anything to sneeze at.

Anyone up for some Celtics schadenfreude? Or is everyone ready to pencil them in for a bottom-half playoff berth and an ignominious 1st round sweep? I'm willing to chalk up their hiccups so far to new guys not "getting" the defensive system, coupled w/ most of their best players being too old to keep up with Rondo and/or consistently push the tempo. And while they're winless against winning teams, they have made a go of it against the Heat & Bulls (albeit after digging themselvs a nice & comfy hole). But watching Rondo throw himself at guys & brick 50% of his freethrows every other possession is almost as tough to bear as Heinsohn actually invoking Bill Russell's name in describing the awesome shot-blocking prowess of one Greg Steimsma. & they're kinda stuck w/ just riding The Big 3 into the sunset for the next 2 years, aren't they?
   2464. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: January 16, 2012 at 12:36 PM (#4037917)
Something to keep an eye on with the Bulls (who tip off in Memphis in an hour and a half) - in 3 of the last 4 games, they've run out to huge leads and then completely squandered them and had to pull it out late. None of them are good teams, per se, but they're not the Wizards either - Minnesota, Boston*, and Toronto. It's not all on the bench in these cases, even though they're still without Hamilton (meaning Brewer isn't on the bench) and Watson. I don't know how much is the schedule piling up (today is the Bulls' 10th game in 13 days, with another one tomorrow, and today is game 3 in under 4 days thanks to the early tip; today they're the first team to play their 15th game and also the first to 10 road games**), injuries (Rose's toe problem was really obvious in the Bos/Tor games, the already mentioned lack of guard depth due to injuries, Boozer's aestheticism completely disappearing, or Noah having to have something wrong with him, etc) or lack of practice (they've had 1 practice since the season started), but it's there. I'm sure other teams will go through similar stretches when the schedule is ####### with them, too. Then again, they have the best record in the league and have yet to play that well yet, so I'm not complaining.

*Good enough for you, Essex?
**They've played more games on the road than total games the Clippers have played! In 2 weeks they start a 9 game road trip, and they have another road game on Friday!
   2465. Bitter Mouse Posted: January 16, 2012 at 12:50 PM (#4037944)
Millsap is no worse than the third best PF in the league. I think it's Love/Gasol/Paul.


Is Love that good? I know his stats are very good, but there are factors that always brought him down in my eyes.

* Terrible team. Someone has to score and get rebounds, and it seems he gets many of the "freebies" especially since his team has been really bad. I remember discussions on previous threads about the gimme "Team" defensive rebounds, and he certianly gets plenty of those.

* Defense. As in he does not seem to match up very well (but I am not a great bball mind, so I defer if others say he is at least ok).

* T-Wolves. He is on my favorite team, so I try and discount my opinion a bit to try to reduce hometown bias.

Since I am a fan though I will gladly accept he is better than I am giving him credit for.
   2466. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: January 16, 2012 at 01:01 PM (#4037962)
Those are all valid reasons to discount him, yes. Nonetheless, his argument for #1 pf in the league is as about as good as anyone's. I probably put P.Gasol or Dirk first - but I could be persuaded to pick someone else. Aldridge is in the discussion (which amazes me - my biggest ever failure in draft day assessment). You could even make non-insane arguments for the old timers Duncan and Garnett (I don't agree with this, mind you). Griffin isn't there yet. Millsap is not part of the discussion (though I love Millsap, his defense and lack of minutes are problematic).
   2467. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: January 16, 2012 at 01:21 PM (#4037993)
KCJHoop: Thibodeau said he's planning on DRose playing vs. Grizzlies, however there is chance he won't. Had minor setback. #Bulls


An earlier tweet said he was wearing a walking boot. He probably needs to rest it.
   2468. steagles Posted: January 16, 2012 at 01:41 PM (#4038023)
When USA Basketball sends a dozen players to the Olympics in London this summer, the roster will come from these 20 finalists, released by USA Basketball on Monday:

Guards: Dwyane Wade, Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Eric Gordon, Russell Westbrook, Chauncey Billups, Derrick Rose, Kobe Bryant

Forwards: LeBron James, Andre Iguodala, Rudy Gay, Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh, Blake Griffin, Lamar Odom, LaMarcus Aldridge, Kevin Love.

Centers: Dwight Howard, Tyson Chandler.
if we're keeping 12, i'd pick the bolded.

after what's happened the last ~18 months, i really hope that bosh, carmelo, williams, and billups are left off the roster. they just really have not carried themselves in a respectable manner, and i don't think they're worthy of playing for this country.
   2469. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 16, 2012 at 01:54 PM (#4038047)
[2468] Ooooh, this could be fun, my picks:

Guards: Dwyane Wade, Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Eric Gordon, Russell Westbrook, Chauncey Billups, Derrick Rose, Kobe Bryant

Forwards: LeBron James, Andre Iguodala, Rudy Gay, Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh, Blake Griffin, Lamar Odom, LaMarcus Aldridge, Kevin Love.

Centers: Dwight Howard, Tyson Chandler.
   2470. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: January 16, 2012 at 02:02 PM (#4038062)
Millsap wasn't on the list?!?!

after what's happened the last ~18 months, i really hope that bosh, carmelo, williams, and billups are left off the roster. they just really have not carried themselves in a respectable manner, and i don't think they're worthy of playing for this country.

Wait, what?
   2471. JJ1986 Posted: January 16, 2012 at 02:12 PM (#4038075)
Guards: Dwyane Wade, Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Eric Gordon, Russell Westbrook, Chauncey Billups, Derrick Rose, Kobe Bryant

Forwards: LeBron James, Andre Iguodala, Rudy Gay, Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh, Blake Griffin, Lamar Odom, LaMarcus Aldridge, Kevin Love.

Centers: Dwight Howard, Tyson Chandler.


Wouldn't take Wade because of his health. There'd be a good chance he'd miss the whole thing.
   2472. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: January 16, 2012 at 02:15 PM (#4038086)
Looks like no Rose for the Bulls today.
   2473. Bitter Mouse Posted: January 16, 2012 at 02:27 PM (#4038106)
The list needs more 76ers. I mean come on.

Seriously though I don't think you want the best individual players, but the best team adjusted for the fact the game is a bit different than the NBA. Of course throw the best (most popular) players at it and overwhelm the world has working reasonably well MOST of the time so they will likely do that.
   2474. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 16, 2012 at 02:30 PM (#4038111)
Wouldn't take Wade because of his health. There'd be a good chance he'd miss the whole thing.

Regular season GP from '09-'10 to present:

Wade 162
Paul 134
Gordon 120
Chandler 137
   2475. steagles Posted: January 16, 2012 at 02:38 PM (#4038119)
Wait, what?
melo forced his way out of denver, deron williams got jerry sloan fired, chauncey billups threatened to retire if he got claimed by a team he didn't like, and chris bosh just looks like a #########.

i'd actually feel the same way about lebron, wade, and chris paul, but i think their skills would be more vital to the team's chances.


this team is supposed to represent our country, and some of the names on this list are the biggest jackasses in the entire NBA. we really should be able to do better.
The list needs more 76ers. I mean come on.
thank you gob bluth
   2476. Bitter Mouse Posted: January 16, 2012 at 02:54 PM (#4038144)
Regular season GP from '09-'10 to present:


Past results are no guarantee of future performance. Would you really expect Wade to remain healthiest of that group?
   2477. madvillain Posted: January 16, 2012 at 03:05 PM (#4038157)
Chicago sucks without Rose. And so does watching this game. Amazing what a difference one superstar makes on a roster. Pressed into roles they aren't good at, every other follower on the team, Deng, Boozer, Noah all the way down to Lucas, doesn't look as good.
   2478. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: January 16, 2012 at 03:06 PM (#4038159)
Memphis is beating Chicago by 20 at halftime. The Bulls beat the Grizz by 40 already this season. Might as well even it out.
   2479. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: January 16, 2012 at 03:07 PM (#4038160)
Chicago sucks without Rose. And so does watching this game. Amazing what a difference one superstar makes on a roster. Pressed into roles they aren't good at, every other follower on the team, Deng, Boozer, Noah all the way down to Lucas, doesn't look as good.

To be fair, Memphis is also without their best player.
   2480. puck Posted: January 16, 2012 at 03:34 PM (#4038176)
I suppose it's easy to overthink the Olympics stuff, but does it seem odd they didn't include Curry (for the outside shooting)?
   2481. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 16, 2012 at 04:04 PM (#4038184)
deron williams got jerry sloan fired


Jerry Sloan retired, and he, Deron, and everyone in the Jazz FO denied it was Deron's fault. If Deron had the power to get Sloan fired, the Jazz sure as hell weren't going to trade him shortly after. He and Sloan certainly clashed, but if Sloan couldn't handle it, it was because he no longer had the drive to coach the NBA (which he admitted). This is a man that apparently challenged Karl Malone to fistfights during games multiple times; fighting with his star player was nothing unusual for Sloan.

RE: Millsap, agreed mostly with Der K -- I don't think the lack of minutes are an issue, though. Millsap has the stamina and ability to play more, but the Jazz thought Favors was ready to break out and Millsap started the season on the bench. What really amazes me about Millsap is how much his mid-range shot and ball handling has improved. He's still a weak link on defense (which is compounded with Jefferson playing beside him), but he's now a legit option on offense rather than someone that just gets garbage points. Off the top of my head, I'd go Dirk, Gasol, Aldridge, Love, Griffin, Bosh then probably Millsap for this season. I'd put a healthy Randolph and Amare over him still, and I'm not certain he should be above Garnett or Duncan even at this stage in their careers. Still, a top 10 PF, considering how many people doubted he'd even be an NBA player is pretty impressive. Matching the Blazers' offer sheet and subsequently letting Boozer go has been one of the Jazz' best recent decisions. Too bad they didn't do the same with Wesley Matthews.
   2482. andrewberg Posted: January 16, 2012 at 04:05 PM (#4038185)
Q pon should not be playing this many minutes. He's a tweener in all the bad ways- boards like a three, shoots like a four.
   2483. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: January 16, 2012 at 04:26 PM (#4038199)
The Bulls are obviously going to have offensive problems without Rose. However, that doesn't excuse the HORRIBLE defense today. The rotations are slow and sloppy, the recovery is non-existent (leading to open shot after open shot), and the rebounding is poor (although a few nice stretches were mixed in). Thibs just threw in the towel with a smidge over 3 mins left, the Grizz are shooting 55.6%. That's pathetic, and has little to do with Rose out (even though it is a significant downgrade from him to JL III - Watson got decent minutes in his first game back, but he was rusty). Noah particularly played yet another terrible game, so he's ridden the bench for over half of the game. The Bulls made a small run in the 3rd thanks to a press that produces some TOs, but other than that this is about as bad as the defense can play (maybe the GS game was worse, but probably not since the Grizz are just a better/more talented team than the W's).
   2484. Bitter Mouse Posted: January 16, 2012 at 04:41 PM (#4038212)
He's still a weak link on defense (which is compounded with Jefferson playing beside him)


I refuse to believe Millsap is worse defensively than Jefferson unless he is actually boxing out his own teammates. But that is just latent bitterness.
   2485. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 16, 2012 at 05:17 PM (#4038254)
I refuse to believe Millsap is worse defensively than Jefferson unless he is actually boxing out his own teammates. But that is just latent bitterness.


Not worse than Jefferson, but he is bad. Millsap gives more effort (though Jefferson has improved so far this season), but it is partly negated by the size difference.

Anyway, if you guys are interested in why the Jazz have been successful so far, Zach Lowe has a good article up. Like he says, Jazz need to get more from their wing players and Harris to keep this up, but they have made real progress on the defensive end -- not in the article, but Corbin changed the Jazz' defensive philosophy over the offseason on where to direct penetrating opponents. Lowe notes their improved rebounding rates, helped a lot by Favors and Kanter off the bench, as well as the fact that opponents are taking much less efficient shots against them this year (fewer 3PA and shots at the rim).
   2486. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: January 16, 2012 at 06:09 PM (#4038281)
I'll take back the minutes thing - for a second I was thinking about "value", not ability - even as I didn't with some other dudes in the same comment. Stupid.

   2487. nick swisher hygiene Posted: January 16, 2012 at 08:15 PM (#4038333)
This is a man that apparently challenged Karl Malone to fistfights during games multiple times


quoted for, you know, HOLY ####....
   2488. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: January 16, 2012 at 08:33 PM (#4038344)
One more thing on Love and his mates - MIN has been a lot more successful of late when he's the five. Some of that is the Wolves' PF heavy roster and the situations where they'd be willing to play him as a center but... it's worth noting.
(also not surprising)
   2489. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: January 16, 2012 at 10:11 PM (#4038374)
Had a disturbing long post on Courtney Fortson eaten last night (that happened to a few, actually - though, hey! - i was able to post here w/o logging back in!). Short version:
This guy was no sure thing to stick in the D-League this year (played scrub minutes in a few games last year, was drafted in the 5th round of their weirdo draft this season - most of those guys are camp fodder, even this year) but... played well for his club (the LA Defenders, he's their starting PG) and went to NBA camp w/ the Clips (he did have a decent pedigree coming out of Arkansas two seasons back) so - when they needed a guard on a 10-day deal, they went w/ the familiar commodity.
Still - not a guy I saw making the league as of a few months back.
   2490. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 16, 2012 at 11:54 PM (#4038406)
Free John Wall (not sure how old this video is).
   2491. PJ Martinez Posted: January 17, 2012 at 01:04 AM (#4038422)
[Nevermind.]
   2492. Into the Void Posted: January 17, 2012 at 01:15 AM (#4038428)
Kobe's going to have to put up 30 shots in the 4th quarter to get his 40 tonight...
   2493. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: January 17, 2012 at 01:26 AM (#4038433)
Mavs win the 3rd quarter 16-7. Yeah, that's right. The Lakers have 46 after three quarters.
   2494. Maxwn Posted: January 17, 2012 at 01:28 AM (#4038434)
This 3rd quarter in LAL-DAL is some of the worst basketball I have ever seen. The only scoring that took place in the last 7 minutes of the quarter was Lamar Odom on a contested 3 and Ian Mahinmi and Andrew Bynum making 1 free throw a piece.

LAL only scored 7 pts in the qtr. The Mavs broke out for a comparatively robust 16. These 2 teams look like they are on the last leg of a back-to-back-to-back-to-back.
   2495. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: January 17, 2012 at 02:06 AM (#4038440)
Go Fish!
   2496. rr Posted: January 17, 2012 at 02:31 AM (#4038444)
Hollinger has a piece up (free) about the Celtics. Will be an unpleasant read for KG fans:

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7469501/nba-kendrick-perkins-trade-not-boston-celtics-problem

Note to Celtics fans: Not linking to talk trash. Lakers have as many problems as Celtics in spite of better record as viewers saw tonight.

Happiest people tonight who watched TNT games on many levels: OKC fans.

Also, in a triumph for small markets and competitive balance, Dwight Howard has officially added the Clippers to his "wish list."
   2497. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: January 17, 2012 at 10:52 AM (#4038514)
Can we please have our young, deep, room to grow, 28-24 with Amare playing Top 10 caliber team back?

Please?
   2498. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: January 17, 2012 at 11:30 AM (#4038540)
I watched that LAL/DAL 3rd as well - blarf.

Read that Hollinger bit. The season is still young (even as the Celts aren't), but - yeah, not looking good for the green.
   2499. andrewberg Posted: January 17, 2012 at 12:41 PM (#4038603)
One more thing on Love and his mates - MIN has been a lot more successful of late when he's the five. Some of that is the Wolves' PF heavy roster and the situations where they'd be willing to play him as a center but... it's worth noting.


Yeah, even going back to when Al was in MN, the lineup data support the idea that Love does the most good at C. you are almost certainly right in speculating that it is due in part to other roster construction; better to have Williams, Beasley, at 4 than Darko, Pek at 5. I was calling for more of it through the offseason, and Adelman has not shied away, even in crunch time. We saw more Darko and Pek (who played his best game of the year) last night to match up with Boogie's offensive prowess, but as I have said before, that list of dangerous offensive 5's is damn short.
   2500. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: January 17, 2012 at 12:50 PM (#4038608)
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