Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Friday, December 02, 2011

NBA THREAD DECEMBER: POST-LOCKOUT

With the lockout over, I estimate that there may be more than 10-12 Primates who want to talk about the NBA, and with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: fractional reserve banking, and Tim Tebow.

robinred Posted: December 02, 2011 at 12:26 AM | 3254 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: general

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 26 of 33 pages ‹ First  < 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 >  Last ›
   2501. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 17, 2012 at 12:50 PM (#4038609)
   2502. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 17, 2012 at 02:48 PM (#4038705)
This is perhaps pedantic, but isn't it a bit odd to say that Blake Griffin won't reach his defensive potential because of his limited reach? If his body is keeping him from achieving something, then he doesn't really have that potential...
   2503. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 17, 2012 at 04:11 PM (#4038821)
Results of the 2011-12 GM Survey.

---

Rose is likely out again tonight for Chicago (home against Pho). They said he had a reaction to some pain medication and didn't take any yesterday. With the next 2 days off, it's a smart move to let him rest. They have a better chance tonight against Phoenix (and with Watson back) than they did yesterday in Memphis.
   2504. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 17, 2012 at 04:49 PM (#4038857)
This is perhaps pedantic, but isn't it a bit odd to say that Blake Griffin won't reach his defensive potential because of his limited reach? If his body is keeping him from achieving something, then he doesn't really have that potential...
That's my reaction, too. If it turns out that Griffin's not ever going to be a very good defender, well... Charles Barkeley was never a particularly good defender in large part because of his heft and relative lack of length (some might say he was outright bad), and Chuck was still a great, great player.
   2505. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: January 17, 2012 at 04:52 PM (#4038858)
i'm a big fan of the new owners, but this does not seem like the best way to run an organization.
Rose applied for the job last season, but when Eric Snow landed the gig, he retreated to San Antonio, where he appeared on-air for close to 20 Spurs games. When the lockout ended and the Sixers job became open again this season, Rose got a call from Marc Zumoff; the two have been friends since Rose’s pro playing days. Rose said he sent in audition tapes on a Friday, got a call from Comcast the following Monday, and was on-air with Zumoff that Tuesday. What’s developed in the short time since then is one of the more unpredictable and amusing basketball broadcast teams in recent memory.



and the link. it's worth reading.
   2506. robinred Posted: January 17, 2012 at 05:00 PM (#4038866)
Fanboy note on Lakers/Dallas: was glad they gave Odom a big ovation. Figured they would, but it was nonetheless good to see--many fans are still mad at him.
   2507. andrewberg Posted: January 17, 2012 at 05:01 PM (#4038867)
Results of the 2011-12 GM Survey.


Surprised how little support Chicago got in the East. I think Miami will win, but I'd say it's closer to 60/40. Maybe that's what the 97% of GMs who picked them think, too.

Also, not a single MVP vote for anyone other than Durant or Lebron? I could definitely imagine situations that would lead Paul or Howard to win it, at least. What if both of those guys sprain ankles and miss 20 games?

Who is the best power forward in the NBA?
1. Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas -- 41.1%
2. Blake Griffin, L.A. Clippers -- 17.9%
3. Kevin Love, Minnesota -- 14.3%
4. LaMarcus Aldridge, Portland -- 10.7%
5. Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City -- 7.1%
Also receiving votes: Tim Duncan, San Antonio; Kevin Garnett, Boston; Pau Gasol, L.A. Lakers


Apparently they misspelled "Paul Millsap" as "Kevin Durant."

Someone voted for Afflalo as best defender in the NBA.
   2508. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: January 17, 2012 at 05:05 PM (#4038872)
We really ought to do those same questions every preseason and compare answers.
   2509. robinred Posted: January 17, 2012 at 05:11 PM (#4038876)
We really ought to do those same questions every preseason and compare answers.


Sure. Also, I thought that stuff about the 20 Olympic guys was a waste of time. Pretty clear to me that USA Basketball should simply send the 76ers, setting up a Gold Medal game between most of the 76ers and a Vucevic-led Swiss National Team. The ancillary benefit is that it redeems Doug Collins for '72 in Munich.
   2510. smileyy Posted: January 17, 2012 at 05:24 PM (#4038888)
[2502] I think "potential" is shorthand for "If he's such a freakish athlete on offense, shouldn't be be able to do the same on defense?"
   2511. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 17, 2012 at 05:25 PM (#4038889)
More from the GM Survey:
Which head coach runs the best offense?

1. George Karl, Denver -- 22.2%
2. Rick Adelman, Minnesota -- 18.5%
T3. Rick Carlisle, Dallas -- 11.1%
T3. Gregg Popovich, San Antonio -- 11.1%
T5. Mike Brown, L.A. Lakers -- 7.4%
T5. Mike D'Antoni -- New York -- 7.4%
Really?
   2512. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: January 17, 2012 at 05:26 PM (#4038892)

Sure. Also, I thought that stuff about the 20 Olympic guys was a waste of time. Pretty clear to me that USA Basketball should simply send the 76ers, setting up a Gold Medal game between most of the 76ers and a Vucevic-led Swiss National Team.
i thought eurogoon plays for montenegro.
   2513. Jimmy P Posted: January 17, 2012 at 06:52 PM (#4038928)
   2514. Zipperholes Posted: January 17, 2012 at 07:10 PM (#4038934)
and the link. it's worth reading.
You threw out a quasi-Animal House reference after an Evan Turner basket and said, “Do you mind if I dance in your paint?"
Awesome.
   2515. robinred Posted: January 17, 2012 at 07:24 PM (#4038944)
i thought eurogoon plays for montenegro.


He was born in Switzerland. Either way, the country in question is looking at Silver in London.

LAKERS ORTG 2011 6TH 111 PTS/100 POSS
LAKERS ORTG 2012 18TH 102 PTS/100 POSS
   2516. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: January 17, 2012 at 07:39 PM (#4038954)
I love me some Malik Rose, color** man. He's both informative and entertaining.

** Has nothing to do with his Negrodamus.

I second #2514.
   2517. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 17, 2012 at 08:02 PM (#4038961)
Rose is out tonight vs. Phoenix, but luckily Watson is starting and not JLIII. Rip is back tonight - I know he needs the PT with the team, but if there's any chance of re-aggravating it, I would have let him sit for 2 more days.
   2518. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 17, 2012 at 10:20 PM (#4039016)
Karl Malone Paul Millsap has 8 of the first 9 Jazz points and is destroying Griffin.
   2519. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: January 17, 2012 at 10:26 PM (#4039018)
I laughed when I saw the Mike Brown offense bit as well. That was one of the craziest things not said by just one guy.

Only 135 minutes, but Corey Brewer has been playing out of his mind thus far for Denver.
   2520. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: January 17, 2012 at 10:59 PM (#4039036)
The second half of that Spurs-Heat game was insane. Wow.
   2521. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: January 17, 2012 at 11:00 PM (#4039037)
Andre Iguodala @mindofAI9 25m
"@Jrue_Holiday11: @mindofAI9 don't like avocados but like guacamole... #BlackPplProblems" so tru!
   2522. madvillain Posted: January 17, 2012 at 11:34 PM (#4039047)
Rose is out tonight vs. Phoenix, but luckily Watson is starting and not JLIII. Rip is back tonight - I know he needs the PT with the team, but if there's any chance of re-aggravating it, I would have let him sit for 2 more days.


Rip has sat out what, 10 days in a row. I just think he was feeling 100% so they let him give it a go. Watson said after the game he felt some pain in his elbow. That's fine, they have a nice 3 day break (finally).

It was quite smart to hold out Rose. He'll have almost a week straight of rest and if he just has a typical sprain and not turf toe, he should be close to 100% by Friday, at least from my armchair diagnosis and research.

Rose said the pain was "a 6 or a 7", which seems pretty high coming from him. Hopefully he's fine by Friday. Chicago can't have this injury lingering. If you have to shut him down a month to make sure he's 100% for the playoffs, you do it, even if it means possibly losing HCA.

Sucks, but it is what it is. Hopefully this is all moot.

Boozer played out of his mind tonight, nice to see. Noah balled out as well. Rip was drawing attention and making his usual smart passes (7 assists for Rip). It was only the Suns, but good to see nonetheless. Rip is a difference maker from what I have seen so far. Brewer just doesn't have the vision and smarts Rip does on the perimter. Brewer has his own positives, but they aren't as valuable to Chicago, a team starved for offensive playmaking outside of Rose.

___________

I encourage Jrue and Iggy to keep eating guacamole, eventually they will also like Avocados.
   2523. tshipman Posted: January 17, 2012 at 11:52 PM (#4039060)
Will Blake Griffin reach his defensive potential?


Isn't that a really dumb argument? How do Griffin's short arms prevent him from being a great help defender?
   2524. JuanGone..except1game Posted: January 17, 2012 at 11:59 PM (#4039062)
Karl Malone Paul Millsap has 8 of the first 9 Jazz points and is destroying Griffin.


At the time, I thought teams were crazy for not signing Millsap for a large offer when he was a FA. It just seemed obvious that he was being held back by Boozer. Just looked it up and in 2009 the best offer he got was POR's 4/$32 which Utah matched. That's easily one of the best non-Rookie scale contracts in the league.
   2525. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 18, 2012 at 12:07 AM (#4039068)
Had a disturbing long post on Courtney Fortson eaten last night (that happened to a few, actually - though, hey! - i was able to post here w/o logging back in!). Short version:
This guy was no sure thing to stick in the D-League this year (played scrub minutes in a few games last year, was drafted in the 5th round of their weirdo draft this season - most of those guys are camp fodder, even this year) but... played well for his club (the LA Defenders, he's their starting PG) and went to NBA camp w/ the Clips (he did have a decent pedigree coming out of Arkansas two seasons back) so - when they needed a guard on a 10-day deal, they went w/ the familiar commodity.
Still - not a guy I saw making the league as of a few months back.


He's gotten quite a bit of PT tonight, and looks really fast. He's been able to drive right past the Jazz defender about 3-4 times in the 2nd half and get to the basket. His shot looks awful though, and hard to see a guy his size with any future unless he learns to shoot.
   2526. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 18, 2012 at 11:45 AM (#4039285)
The second half of that Spurs-Heat game was insane. Wow.

I didn't watch it, but I did see that the Spurs were up 16 at halftime. It's almost unbelievable that they lost by 22. Outscored by 36 in the 2nd half. Just ridiculous. The Spurs are now 9-0 at home, and 0-5 on the road. And to rehash steagles posts earlier, home court has been a big deal this year, but especially in the West. Only the Thunder have a winning road record out West (6-1), the Nuggets are next best at 3-3. It's not as pronounced in the East, but only 6 teams there have winning records on the road.

Rip has sat out what, 10 days in a row. I just think he was feeling 100% so they let him give it a go. Watson said after the game he felt some pain in his elbow. That's fine, they have a nice 3 day break (finally).

Well, he lied the last time he said he was healthy, so why trust him? They have today completely off, practice tomorrow, and play in the Cleve Friday. I was hoping they'd let him practice and then judge how he was doing. They didn't need him against the Suns, that's all.

I'd like to ##### for a brief minute again about Funk and King. So when JLIII comes in the game, they start talking about how Nash's eyes lit up because, and I quote "he feels like he has a size advantage." Feels like? Don't you even have a catch phrase for this situation Stacey? You know, "Mouse in the house." Guess what guys, Nash is way ####### better than JLIII and he does, in fact, have a huge matchup advantage on him, and not just because he's taller than him.
   2527. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 18, 2012 at 01:21 PM (#4039403)
Pelton has a free article up on injuries this season:
Case closed? Not quite. You see, I also have data on when the injuries occurred, and there's an enormous difference between the two seasons. In 2010-11, 45 players were sidelined before opening night--either preexisting injuries or those suffered in training camp. This year, that number was down to just 29. It's logical that, with just two preseason games and barely two weeks' worth of practices, fewer players were injured prior to the start of the regular season this time around. Take out those injuries and it becomes clear that far more players have been injured during the first three weeks' worth of games:

Total injuries suffered during the regular season are up nearly 50 percent, a discrepancy that cannot be explained away by the increased number of games. On a per-game basis, in-season injuries are up more than a quarter.


Link
   2528. robinred Posted: January 18, 2012 at 01:37 PM (#4039418)
@2547,

Yeah, I have noticed that, along with the ugly games, and the already-noted issues of teams being unable to win on the road and the low scores.

I am no doubt influenced on this by the Lakers, who are a very ugly team to watch (Brown and Bryant have both said as much) but it seems the lockout has added a lot of warts to the season in general, as we expected.

   2529. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: January 18, 2012 at 01:50 PM (#4039436)
The compact schedule seems to put a big premium on depth. You really need four guards and four forwards, who all can play, in order to play well on the road for a couple of nights in a row or to play 4 games in 5 nights for the second time in 3 weeks. Teams aren't really set up that way and, typically, having that kind of depth isn't a great way for a team to manage it's spending. In fact, the league really isn't set up for that to work for the majority of teams. If this schedule were the norm- and top teams had to go 10 deep in order to stay at the top of the standings every year- there would have to be some structural and practical changes in how teams set up their rosters and manage their schedule. And, most likely, in how the league is structured.

But with this schedule being a one-off, teams are just going to muddle through this season. And the fans get to enjoy it all.
   2530. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 18, 2012 at 02:10 PM (#4039454)
2528. robinred Posted: January 18, 2012 at 12:37 PM (#4039418)
@2547,

Yeah, I have noticed that, along with the ugly games, and the already-noted issues of teams being unable to win on the road and the low scores.

I am no doubt influenced on this by the Lakers, who are a very ugly team to watch (Brown and Bryant have both said as much) but it seems the lockout has added a lot of warts to the season in general, as we expected.


robin from the future, will the Sixers finally beat a decent team when they play the Nuggets tonight?
   2531. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 18, 2012 at 03:00 PM (#4039505)
robin from the future, will the Sixers finally beat a decent team when they play the Nuggets tonight?
Not to answer for Red, and not commenting on this particular game, but I've heard several times now that the tighter schedule not only makes road games more difficult, but will make road games in Denver and Utah even more physically taxing than ever (the most recent examples being the Heat getting run in Denver and the Clips getting smashed by the Jazz). I would have a hard time taking any team over Denver in Denver this season.*

(Except against an all-time great team like Philly.)
   2532. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 18, 2012 at 03:10 PM (#4039522)
Well, luckily for the Sixers they're playing in Philly tonight. And luckily for the Jazz, weren't the Clips without Paul? And speaking of lucky, didn't that continue the Jazz's fortunate run of playing teams missing their best players?
   2533. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 18, 2012 at 03:31 PM (#4039541)
Ooh, I think it does. I was out softballing last night, didn't even look at the box score for the Clips.
   2534. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 18, 2012 at 05:06 PM (#4039643)
And speaking of lucky, didn't that continue the Jazz's fortunate run of playing teams missing their best players?


Yeah, so far they have faced the Hornets without Gordon, Grizzlies without Randolph (though since he will be out so long this isn't really lucky), Bucks without Bogut, Warriors without Curry, and then last night without Paul. Of course that they were able to take advantage is still a good sign, and more than I expected coming into the season and after the first couple games. Their latest loss to the Lakers and recent victory in Denver are the biggest reasons for optimism about this season, IMO, not how they've handled the above teams or crap teams like the Nets and Cavs.

Even with Paul, I think the Clippers would have been blown out last night anyway. It was the middle of a back to back to back set, and they played like a team that was already tired and dreading another game the next night.
   2535. Zipperholes Posted: January 18, 2012 at 06:21 PM (#4039715)
From 1994-2001 (apparently the last year the NBA had B2B2B situations):

-Home teams went 15-24 SU and 12-21-1 ATS in the third game of a B2B2B.
-Road teams went 16-19 SU and 24-8 ATS in the third game of a B2B2B.
Note, these numbers don't consider whether the first two games of the B2B2B set were home or away.

Small sample size, but my impressions:
-Yes, teams underperform in the third game.
-But we overestimate this underperformance for road teams. I.e., while there is a performance decline, it may not be much more significant, if at all, for road teams than home teams.

source for data
   2536. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: January 18, 2012 at 10:54 PM (#4039898)
The Knicks are about to lose to the Suns at home in a game where only Shumpert, Chandler and Fields decided to show up. #### this team.

EDIT: In happier news, I watched the last 2 minutes of the 4th Q and all of OT for the DEN-PHI game. Tough FT miss by AI2 at the end of regulation and Andre Miller played out of his mind.
   2537. JC in DC Posted: January 18, 2012 at 11:06 PM (#4039908)
The Knicks are horrible. I can't stand watching them. What are they? .500 since the Melo trade? I'm on to Plan B.
   2538. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: January 18, 2012 at 11:06 PM (#4039909)
that was a hell of a game.


just like the knicks and blazers losses, the sixers got down double-digits early in the 4th quarter. they closed that deficit tonight almost immediately with an 11-0 run, but i really hope this is more coincidence than trend.

the three biggest factors in the loss:
andre miller put up 28, 8 and 10 assists. if he's the guy that beats you (shooting 3/4 from beyond the arc, no less), i think you can live with it, but that doesn't really make it any easier to take.
andre iguodala got to the FT line down 1, with 4 seconds left in the 4th quarter and he bricked the first FT. having seen this for 8 years, it really is death and taxes at this point that sometime in the 4th quarter of a close game, he'll get to the line, and he'll break the team's back with a miss.
jrue holiday handed the ball to a denver player with about 3 seconds left in overtime. he drove into the lane, lost his dribble, got into the air, and then just handed the ball to the nugget that was standing right behind him. that's a terrible way to end the game, but unlike the iguodala thing, it was more of a freak occurrence than an established deficiency.



also, it is an absolute necessity that evan turner extend the range on his jump shot out to the point where he can confidently spot up for a corner 3. he spends so much time in that off corner, and there's just absolutely no threat of him taking, let alone making, that shot.


also, that was eurogoon's first NBA start. he had 2 blocks in the 1st quarter, but he picked up his 4th foul 45 seconds into the 3rd, and he didn't get back on the court after that. i think this was a situation where collins wanted thad young in to match up against gallinari (who started the 2nd half at PF, and scored only 3 points in 33 minutes), but otherwise, i think this was a situation where the team would have been better off leaving the rookie in with 4 fouls, instead of putting him on the bench and completely taking him out of the game.
   2539. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: January 18, 2012 at 11:18 PM (#4039913)
The Knicks are horrible. I can't stand watching them. What are they? .500 since the Melo trade? I'm on to Plan B.

20-22 (20-26 if you count the playoffs)
   2540. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: January 18, 2012 at 11:20 PM (#4039915)
andre iguodala got to the FT line down 1, with 4 seconds left in the 4th quarter and he bricked the first FT. having seen this for 8 years, it really is death and taxes at this point that sometime in the 4th quarter of a close game, he'll get to the line, and he'll break the team's back with a miss.

Funnily enough, as Igoudala walked to that line my first thought was "Pretty sure I remember steagles complaining about this guy always bricking late game FTs"
   2541. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: January 18, 2012 at 11:53 PM (#4039938)
Apparently, Chandler Parsons has become King of the Putback Dunk. This is a surprising development, though he always had the kind of surprising athleticism that you so often see in gangly, awkward-looking white players.
   2542. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: January 18, 2012 at 11:55 PM (#4039940)
Funnily enough, as Igoudala walked to that line my first thought was "Pretty sure I remember steagles complaining about this guy always bricking late game FTs"
the guy put up 11, 10 and 8 assists, and he'll take an inordinate amount of blame for the loss because of that 1 missed FT.

for everything he does to help the team win, if he just shot 84% from the FT line for his career instead of 74%, he'd be loved by the fans**, instead of getting this:

mharrisCSN Marshall Harris
Audible groan when Iguodala caught the ball on inbounds with 7.9 seconds to play and down one.



**although, considering how long he's been on the trade block, it's probably equally likely that he'd be a clipper or a warrior.
   2543. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: January 19, 2012 at 10:11 AM (#4040083)
The Knicks are horrible. I can't stand watching them. What are they? .500 since the Melo trade? I'm on to Plan B

Under. And under the McAdoo/Haywood Line, their effective ceiling. Amare/Anthony/Chandler = McAdoo/Haywood/Human Eraser Webster

You aren't winning anything with Melo as your lead guy and D'Antoni taking the hit for that loser's shortcomings is nauseating. Thank God I only shelled out for one game.

Plan B: The Rangers. Dolan -- a living, breathing advertisement for confiscatory estate taxes -- hasn't said a word about them in a decade but of course he had to run his ####### mouth yesterday about them being "close to" the Stanley Cup, and now there's tabloid controversy.

####### jagoff.


   2544. Jimmy P Posted: January 19, 2012 at 11:36 AM (#4040137)
You aren't winning anything with Melo as your lead guy

I'm still not sure I believe this. This is a really poorly put together team, and then even moreso when you consider the coach and his system.
   2545. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 19, 2012 at 12:52 PM (#4040216)
So, uh, how'd the Thunder lose to the Wizards last night?

---

WindhorstESPN: Eddy Curry has lost around 100 lbs. Yesterday worked extra hour after practice & they literally had to mop up his sweat. Might play tonight
WindhorstESPN: Curry said he stills gets winded easily and won't be able to play much. Since Heat have no center, just 5-7 minutes would legitimately help.


HA!
   2546. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 19, 2012 at 01:07 PM (#4040240)
andre miller put up 28, 8 and 10 assists. if he's the guy that beats you (shooting 3/4 from beyond the arc, no less), i think you can live with it, but that doesn't really make it any easier to take.


That's not how it works. When a star beats you, that's the attitude to take. When a backup PG* does that, it's not a live with it situation. You could also mention Hawes missed another game. Regardless, we're still waiting for the Sixers to beat a good team**.
Next 2 games are good chances - Hawks (who are playing surprisingly well without Horford) and at Miami (b2b after travel, so almost a schedule loss before the game even happens).

*Yes, he very well could be a starter somewhere. And it is kinda how Denver is constructed.
**Pacers do look better now thanks to their schedule, but they Jazzed that game (no Granger or Hill). Then again, last night was ugly and they've also lost to Detroit.

Less trolly, after that Sixers loss there are now just 3 teams unbeaten at home - Chicago, Indiana and SA (they got their first road win last night). And the Nuggets are now the 2nd West team with a winning record. If it wasn't for the Bulls, Staples Center would be undefeated as the home arena (Lakers are 9-1 there and Clips are 7-1, combined they're 2-7 on the road though);
   2547. Jimmy P Posted: January 19, 2012 at 01:51 PM (#4040276)
Curry said he stills gets winded easily and won't be able to play much.

To stick up for Eddy a little - and this is a stretch for me because I've never liked him - he does have a heart condition in the literal sense. That could easily be a factor.
   2548. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: January 19, 2012 at 01:53 PM (#4040278)
That's not how it works. When a star beats you, that's the attitude to take. When a backup PG* does that, it's not a live with it situation

You can't really support a blanket statement like that. What you can "live with" depends on how you are getting beat.

Andre Miller is a 20% career shooter from 3. A defense that results in Miller shooting 3s, even wide-open 3s, is a good defense. If he happens to hit at an absurd rate for a particular night, that's not really a long-term concern. If the Sixers are frequently being beaten by average scoring guards putting up big numbers, or by great 3 shooting nights, that would be something to worry about. But when a bricklayer- which is what Miller is from 3- happens to get a few to fall on a particular night, that's exactly the kind of thing that you can live with.
   2549. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 19, 2012 at 01:57 PM (#4040285)
@ZachLowe_SI Knicks: #1 in % of plays classified as isolations, #29 in points per possession on isolations, per @mySynergySports


---

To stick up for Eddy a little - and this is a stretch for me because I've never liked him - he does have a heart condition in the literal sense. That could easily be a factor.

No, right. But he's also about as lazy as NBA players come, and was fat enough that he could lose 100lbs and still be fat. And both of those pre-date him knowing about the heart thing.
   2550. Jimmy P Posted: January 19, 2012 at 02:08 PM (#4040302)
No, right. But he's also about as lazy as NBA players come, and was fat enough that he could lose 100lbs and still be fat. And both of those pre-date him knowing about the heart thing.

Agreed. That's why I never liked him and was glad to see him go.
   2551. andrewberg Posted: January 19, 2012 at 02:14 PM (#4040314)
76ers- No shame losing to Denver. They are looking like a really, really good 2nd tier contender. They probably won't knock off OKC, MIA, CHI, or maybe even LAL, SA, or LAC in a 7 game series because they are going to struggle to match elite teams in close/late situations since they don't have a go-to offensive weapon that can beat a set, coached up defense. Still, they're good at getting to the line, and Lawson, Nene, and Gallo all seem to have the capacity to carry that weight in certain situations, so I wouldn't rule it out completely.

Also, losing with Dre going for 28 is a letdown, but losing with Dre + Gallo scoring 31 is not surprising. I have watched a ton of Denver (except when they play freaking Portland and they black me out! not over that yet), and they are extremely fun to watch. The only times I have seen them look downright bad were in a stretch against LAL and MIL last game, and both teams can give them problems with physical interior defense.

---

Wolves got down by 16 in the first half against Detroit last night. They were settling for long 2s and 3s, but they were wide open, so shooting 8-38 to open the game is pretty f'ing disappointing. The only bright spot up to 5 min in the 2nd was Wes Johnson getting to the rim and making layups 3x. He finished the game quite well. The announcers made a big deal about Adelman telling him to get more aggressive and stop settling for 3s, at least until he gets more consistent with the shot. If he plays like he did last night (I think he was 5-7, 11 pts, 3 reb in about 20 min), it is a huge improvement and something they really need. On the other hand, he royally botched a foul-to-give situation a the end of the first, which cost them 2 points.

Eventually, they started getting to the rim more, Ricky started finding some holes for cutters or when he drew guys away. More than anything, the defense helped turn the game around by forcing lots of turnovers and bad shots that led to run outs. They got it close in the third, sustained a little run, then put Detroit away with very good execution on both ends in the fourth.

Love and RIcky, clearly the top 2 guys on the team now, had really rough shooting nights. Love finished with 20-17, but it was an ugly 20-17. Ricky had a 9-8-7-6 with very poor shooting, including at least 2 baskets that looked like they were in before inexplicably rolling out.

Other notes: Toliver has become a good defender at the 5 and a near lockdown defender at the 3. Prince was red hot from the field, and Leon didn't let him see a shot in the 4th, which was a huge part of the comeback. He is also a smart offensive player, and basically only shoots layups and threes. He might be the third best player.

Darko cant finish. It is clearly starting to bother Adelman because he has 2-3 point blank shots that just roll out in every game. It is beyond bad luck at this point. Pek got his 2nd half minutes last night and did a better job just by planting himself at the front of the rim and using the multi-PG lineup to find him there. He had a little trouble with Monroe, but most will. He has almost inhumanly short arms (it looks like he gave Ricky a forearm donation) that make him below average at rebounding and one on one D, and cause incessant turnovers. Still, he brings some things that they need (girth, mostly), so I will live with the shortcomings for now.

Barea was back and provided a scoring spark. Ridnour, under appreciated as always, had a so-so game that still helped offensively. Randolph is kind of a dunce at times, though he still has that scintillating offensive potential that flashes more and more often. I think he's at least a rotation guy now, even with the huge lapses. I complained about Ellington taking too many dumb shots that it looked like he had never practiced a couple weeks ago, but it seems like he is getting more comfortable and confident, shooting more disciplined shots and really helping when they need someone to create a shot.
   2552. andrewberg Posted: January 19, 2012 at 02:30 PM (#4040348)
And if I seem like a nut bar for obsessing over a 6-8 team, here are some positive signs.

-Of the 4 youngest teams (wolves youngest), the pyth wins are 2, 3, 3, 8 (others are WAS, SAC, CHA)

-Up to 8th in defensive efficiency, which makes it much more fun to watch

-5th in attendance! Lots of home game already, but at least I'm not alone in enthusiasm

Yeah, pass me the hose, but to be fair, I am thinking more like 30-36, and hoping to piss off everyone who was so excited about that unprotected pick.
   2553. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: January 19, 2012 at 02:30 PM (#4040352)
1. It seems no one remembers this, but Curry lost ~100 pounds prior to '09-'10 only to get hurt and never play.

2. When valuing players do you guys think of it as 50/50 between offense and defense or do you weigh offense more heavily since there seems to be a better grasp on quantifying that. I ask because if we are valuing offense/defense at 50/50 then…given the atrocity that is Amar’e Stoudemire’s defense isn’t he an average player at best and a well below average player when playing at his current level? Yes, this is the beginning of my Jorts really should be starting campaign.

3. Things are going to get really awkward when Gallo (who obviously was saving his energy last night) leads the Nuggets to a no doubt about it win over the Knicks on Saturday.

4. Supposedly once Baron Davis is cleared to practice full contact he will get one day of 5 on 5 and then be activated.
   2554. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: January 19, 2012 at 02:34 PM (#4040358)
Regardless, we're still waiting for the Sixers to beat a good team**.
i don't think that's the right measuring stick. with the upcoming schedule, they're going to beat -a- good team. the real thing to watch for is that they play each team competitively (which really could be said about all of their losses) and manage to pull wins in about half of them (which has not yet happened).


also, one of things that's been constant in each of these losses has been the team's poor shooting from the field. the sixers are one of the best teams in the league in eFG%, but when their shots aren't going down, they don't get to the FT line, and they don't really crash the boards, so the offense can really go dry for stretches (like the 15-2 run the nuggets went on to close the first half, or the 20-5 run the knicks went on through the 3rd/4th quarters). the sixers have a good enough defense to weather those kinds of offensive droughts, but it just hasn't been good enough to actually pull wins from these games.
   2555. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: January 19, 2012 at 02:36 PM (#4040361)
No shame losing to Denver. They are looking like a really, really good 2nd tier contender. They probably won't knock off OKC, MIA, CHI, or maybe even LAL, SA, or LAC in a 7 game series because they are going to struggle to match elite teams in close/late situations since they don't have a go-to offensive weapon that can beat a set, coached up defense. Still, they're good at getting to the line, and Lawson, Nene, and Gallo all seem to have the capacity to carry that weight in certain situations, so I wouldn't rule it out completely.

I think Lawson and Gallo both have that ability. Lawson is just so fast and strong and Gallo can beat most 3s and just about every 4 off the dribble. Lawson can get out of control at times and Gallo sometimes disappears, but by the end of the season, I would think between the two of them something should be figured out.

Love and RIcky, clearly the top 2 guys on the team now, had really rough shooting nights. Love finished with 20-17, but it was an ugly 20-17. Ricky had a 9-8-7-6 with very poor shooting, including at least 2 baskets that looked like they were in before inexplicably rolling out.

Are teams playing Rubio differently or is he just coming back to earth?
   2556. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 19, 2012 at 02:42 PM (#4040368)
Sounds like Westbrook is getting the max extension. In his chat, Hollinger says that means the Thunder can only give Harden 4 years when he's up for an extension. Not sure they could pay all 3 max dollars anyway (and also not sure Harden's worth anywhere near that yet).

---

Anthony Davis's defensive potential - I haven't seen him play yet, but I'm intrigued after reading this. Even if that guy might be overly enamored with reach and wing span (which he doesn't really discuss in that piece).

---

Andre Miller is a 20% career shooter from 3. A defense that results in Miller shooting 3s, even wide-open 3s, is a good defense. If he happens to hit at an absurd rate for a particular night, that's not really a long-term concern. If the Sixers are frequently being beaten by average scoring guards putting up big numbers, or by great 3 shooting nights, that would be something to worry about. But when a bricklayer- which is what Miller is from 3- happens to get a few to fall on a particular night, that's exactly the kind of thing that you can live with.

I think you're reading too much into a throw away comment. And I don't think any NBA guard shooting 3/4 on 3s on a given is an absurd number (####, Corey Brewer is leading the league so far this year at almost 65% and he's a career 33% shooter from there). Underneath my sarcasm and complaining about those posts, there's an underlying point about looking for reasons why the Sixers are losing and not writing it off as a fluke-type event* (be it Miller's great game, or a team's home opener, or the schedule or whatever). Whether or not posts like 2405 are only mostly joking or only partially joking, it leads to running jokes like post 2531 are we're not talking about whether or not we think the Sixers are actual contenders and why they are or aren't (they're not, IMO) and it's actually overshadowing the actual positives to take from that team this year (like Turner's unbusting or Hawes's and Holiday's improvements) and how they could improve to become actual contenders next year (like getting/use cap space and firing Doug Collins for Phil Jackson). EDIT: post 2554 went up while I was writing this; I like it.

*For example, the reason the Bulls got their ass kicked against Memphis on Monday was not because Rose didn't play but it was because they played horrible, horrible defense - especially the bigs (and that's a possible season ending problem if Noah doesn't get his #### together).
   2557. Jimmy P Posted: January 19, 2012 at 02:46 PM (#4040375)
When valuing players do you guys think of it as 50/50 between offense and defense or do you weigh offense more heavily since there seems to be a better grasp on quantifying that.

I lean more towards offense because it's easier, as you said. There's also a difference in one-on-one defense and team. A guy doesn't have to be a great defender to fit into a good defensive scheme with talented defenders around him. The Bulls can do this, as can OKC and Dallas last year. If a guy isn't even putting in the effort, then there's really no use.
   2558. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 19, 2012 at 02:48 PM (#4040381)
the sixers have a good enough defense to weather those kinds of offensive droughts, but it just hasn't been good enough to actually pull wins from these games.

I can understand; the Bulls aren't as good of a shooting team as the Sixers and also don't get to the FT line much (Rose hasn't gotten there as much as he did in the 2nd half of last year, a result of his less aggressive style so far this year), and they go through those offensive stretches almost every game (save the Suns game Tuesday and the one against the Clippers); however, their defense has been good enough to help them pull out wins in those games. This is a function of the Sixers not having that one guy, like the luxury the Bulls have with Rose, and it's likely what will be the Sixers downfall in the playoffs.
   2559. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: January 19, 2012 at 02:54 PM (#4040389)
firing Doug Collins for Phil Jackson
i really hope that was only a joking reference to the jordan bulls, because collins has been a godsend for this team, which was coming out of the eddie jordan doldrums.

Underneath my sarcasm and complaining about those posts, there's an underlying point about looking for reasons why the Sixers are losing and not writing it off as a fluke-type event*
again, i know this is the internet and all, but if there's a continuum with optimism at one end, pessimism at the other, and realism in the middle, i lean more to the optimistic end than even the realistic middle.

that's not the only thing going on here (there's also the fact that i'm a huge wrestling fan), but just know, i fully understand that this was a game they let away. denver was on the second night of a back-to-back, and this should have been a game where they had their way in the 2nd half.


but, we are 20 months out from the sixers finishing 27-54. i'm not gonna jump on 1 loss that takes them from 10-3 to 10-4, when i really am just ecstatic at how well this team has played to start the year (even if they've only yet beaten up on the east's red-headed stepchildren).
   2560. Bitter Mouse Posted: January 19, 2012 at 02:54 PM (#4040390)
The only bright spot up to 5 min in the 2nd was Wes Johnson getting to the rim and making layups 3x. He finished the game quite well. The announcers made a big deal about Adelman telling him to get more aggressive and stop settling for 3s, at least until he gets more consistent with the shot. If he plays like he did last night (I think he was 5-7, 11 pts, 3 reb in about 20 min), it is a huge improvement and something they really need. On the other hand, he royally botched a foul-to-give situation a the end of the first, which cost them 2 points.


And thank goodness. A while back on this thread I gave a tepid defense of Wes, and then did some research, and I was just about to concede there was no hope. Even with the good game his FTA rate is beyond terrible, and I still may have to concede even my tepid defense was too much, but for now I can maintain Wes could someday be a useful part.

Are teams playing Rubio differently or is he just coming back to earth?


He is a rookie and expected to be up and down (IMO). One of the reasons I love guards like Rubio is that it is hard to stop a great passing PG, because by defiition they get the whole team involved. His shooting (or lack there of) is the obvious possible Achilles heel.
   2561. andrewberg Posted: January 19, 2012 at 02:54 PM (#4040391)
NJ

#2- I weigh offense a little more. One is that it is easier to cover up a bad offensive player by having someone else handle the ball and opt to put the guy in a position where he can help or hurt less. I suppose there are diminishing returns to good offensive player more than defense (umm, Knicks?) so you have to consider the situation. There is also some replacement level consideration- a defender just standing there is doing more than an offensive player just standing there. Amare's crappy defense is still better than, say, Marcus Camby's crappy offense, and they're both elite at the other end. It probably evens out more than the popular opinion, but I still think offense matters a little more.

DEN- I agree that either one could get to that level. It just seems more prudent to evaluate them based on what they have already done and consider the possibility for more growth rather than to assume it. I am hoping that one of them does get there.

Ricky- teams are paying more attention to him now, but I think teams generally have a way they play PNRs during the regular season, and it won't change drastically from game to game, especially with so few practices. He doesn't shoot many long twos, but he has had to shoot a few lately late in the clock because he has the ball more. I don't think much has really changed, he just had a few shots that didn't fall. Still, nobody can stay in front of him; it is just a matter of whether his shots fall. He is probably going ot finish the year at about 40% from the field, the bigger question is whether he keeps up a solid 3pt% and gets to the line. He can be extremely valuable with his passing and his (shockingly, unbelievably) great defense.

Edit- to elaborate, he is getting about 2.5 SPG while rarely letting anyone get by him, he took something like his 9th charge last night, and he is hard to shoot over. Like, really hard, because his feet have been fast enough to stay in front of guys and he has alien arms.
   2562. robinred Posted: January 19, 2012 at 03:13 PM (#4040426)
I am thinking more like 30-36, and hoping to piss off everyone who was so excited about that unprotected pick.


No offense, but, again, many people who follow things closely pretty much expected this from the Wolves. SCHOENE missed a lot last year, but they adjusted it some, and they had the Wolves near .500. So did Hollinger. Those guys aren't the final word of course, but on a team like the Wolves that has sucked for a zillion years, the formula guys are often going to be ahead of the MSM.

I hope the pick is as low as possible for selfish reasons, of course. After the deal was made, I told a guy IRL that I thought the MINNY pick would come in 8-11 in the lottery.
   2563. andrewberg Posted: January 19, 2012 at 03:23 PM (#4040438)
Hey, no argument from me. I'm sure you understand (more theoretically than experientially) that seeing a non-horrible projection and experiencing a non-horrible team in real time. After The Rambis Experience, there was a lot of cognitive dissonance with a system that said a team with these players could be competitive. Intellectualy, I got it, but now I'm getting it emotionally, too.
   2564. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: January 19, 2012 at 03:43 PM (#4040470)
Anthony Davis's defensive potential - I haven't seen him play yet, but I'm intrigued after reading this. Even if that guy might be overly enamored with reach and wing span (which he doesn't really discuss in that piece).


I've watched a couple games. He is really, really good -- great body control, agile, athletic. He could stand to get stronger, but that's true of basically every college freshman. He's also got a very good basketball IQ (especially considering his age) and seems to be very calm and collected and a "good teammate" -- harder to really judge those last few, but let's just say that the difference between him and DMC is night and day.

I think he'll grow into offense, too -- he's quite skilled when he gets the ball.

Reminds me of Marcus Camby, but I think he can be a better offensive player (in time) than Camby ever was.

EDIT: Heh, just noticed that berg also name-checked Camby a couple posts ago.
   2565. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 19, 2012 at 04:09 PM (#4040504)
Ricky- teams are paying more attention to him now, but I think teams generally have a way they play PNRs during the regular season, and it won't change drastically from game to game, especially with so few practices. He doesn't shoot many long twos, but he has had to shoot a few lately late in the clock because he has the ball more. I don't think much has really changed, he just had a few shots that didn't fall. Still, nobody can stay in front of him; it is just a matter of whether his shots fall. He is probably going ot finish the year at about 40% from the field, the bigger question is whether he keeps up a solid 3pt% and gets to the line. He can be extremely valuable with his passing and his (shockingly, unbelievably) great defense.

I haven't seen him a ton, but at least in the Bulls game he was moving on his jump shot, usually to the side. So even if he's spotting up, he's not going straight up and down - or forward; it's like a fade away, but to a side. I don't know if that's the only problem, if it's simply a mechanic fix that needs to be made, but it's understandable when that type of shot doesn't go in. In the Bulls game, they went in.
   2566. Jimmy P Posted: January 19, 2012 at 04:30 PM (#4040543)
I think he'll grow into offense, too -- he's quite skilled when he gets the ball.


He was a short point guard until just a few years ago.
   2567. robinred Posted: January 19, 2012 at 04:41 PM (#4040566)
Berg and Bitter Mouse need to get cracking:

Kobe Bryant leads all Western Conference players in votes, capturing 1,110,379 votes thus far. Chris Paul of the Clippers is second among western guards with 835,026 votes, with a huge lead over the third place guard Ricky Rubio of the Minnesota Timberwolves, with 248,423 votes.

   2568. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: January 19, 2012 at 07:07 PM (#4040721)
SixersCEOAdam: 2.3 season tv ratings, up a stunning 64% vs last year. Go @Sixers. Go Malik Rose RT @KRich227 @gonzoCSN can u give the tv ratings numbers?
   2569. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 19, 2012 at 07:38 PM (#4040740)
So it's Malik's fault no one is going to the games?
   2570. Manny Coon Posted: January 19, 2012 at 07:55 PM (#4040755)
He can be extremely valuable with his passing and his (shockingly, unbelievably) great defense.


Rubio won a defensive player of the year award in the second strongest league in the world when he was still a teenager, nobody should be shocked that he is good defender. It was reasonable to have doubts that it would transfer to the NBA, but it shouldn't be terribly surprising that it did. He's long, quick and smart, which are some pretty great defensive tools to have.

#2- I weigh offense a little more. One is that it is easier to cover up a bad offensive player by having someone else handle the ball and opt to put the guy in a position where he can help or hurt less. I suppose there are diminishing returns to good offensive player more than defense (umm, Knicks?) so you have to consider the situation. There is also some replacement level consideration- a defender just standing there is doing more than an offensive player just standing there. Amare's crappy defense is still better than, say, Marcus Camby's crappy offense, and they're both elite at the other end. It probably evens out more than the popular opinion, but I still think offense matters a little more.


Not contributing on defense is much worse than not contributing offense. On offense you largely choose who takes the shots and makes the plays; this gives more value to elite scorers but makes low usage, low mistake players less of a liability as well. On defense, especially as big man you can never afford to take a play off as the other team will recognize it and attack the weakness. Big men are especially important because they are needed to prevent the other team from scoring easy points in the paint both by opposing bigs and penetrating perimeter players. A big like Amare who can't defend really hurts much more than a low usage offensive player (high usage chuckers on the other hand, can do plenty to destroy an offense). Also Camby is struggling this year, but over his career he has been a good passer and offensive rebounder, which along with his fairly low turnover rate and usage, made him more of net positive on offense than some people might realize given his poor scoring ability.
   2571. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 19, 2012 at 09:47 PM (#4040818)
Eddy Curry already has a rebound, field goal, a turnover, and a foul. He still looks fat too.
   2572. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 19, 2012 at 10:07 PM (#4040832)
Did they just say that was Loria Lebron ran into?
   2573. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 20, 2012 at 01:33 AM (#4040933)
Wow these refs are ####### jokes. Throwing Favors out is a ####### joke, especially after refusing to T up Nowitzki.
   2574. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: January 20, 2012 at 11:18 AM (#4041067)
So, this year's team for The Association is the Denver Nuggets.
   2575. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: January 20, 2012 at 12:19 PM (#4041148)
By the way, thanks for the responses on O/D. It seems to me that it SHOULD be 50/50, but more and more I'm realizing/understanding that the standard seems to be to weigh O a lot more than D.
   2576. Bitter Mouse Posted: January 20, 2012 at 12:27 PM (#4041158)
O also sells much better than D and teams (and the league) in general is incented to favor it in a variety of ways. In the short term for quantitative analysis that does not matter, but over time I think it does in rules changes, enforcement, and even team personnel choice.
   2577. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 20, 2012 at 12:41 PM (#4041182)
Chicago Bulls star Derrick Rose sat out the team's morning shootaround at Quicken Loans Arena Friday morning. And while the team claims he is still a gametime decision for Friday's tipoff against the Cleveland Cavaliers, Rose certainly sounded as if he'd miss his third straight game with turf toe in his sprained big left toe.

Rose, for the first time, admitted the injury is worse than the turf toe that bothered him during his second season, which didn't cause him to miss any games. He also said he can't bend the toe. And also for the first time, Rose said he has "a little regret" for averaging 40 minutes in back-to-back games against Boston and Toronto last weekend.

"Knowing that right when it starts feeling good it can go right back to zero, I have to make the smart decision," Rose said. "I wasn't able to bend my toe in like three years. When this injury happened, I aggravated it and I played on it sooner. It was real bad.

"Injuries are going to happen. That's why I always get treatment. This is worse than my second season. That season, I just played through it but it wasn't that bad. Not being able to bend my toe in three years and somebody just forced their weight on my toe, it definitely hurt it."


Yes, it appears it was a mistake he played those games. I'm betting he sits tonight (at CLE) and tomorrow (CHA). With Watson and Hamilton back, both are still winnable games for the Bulls. The Bulls then play again against NJ on Monday (he could sit that one too) and Indiana and Milwaukee come to Chicago on Wednesday and Friday (it'd be nice to have him for the division games). He really needs to be back though after that, because on 1/29 they play in Miami to start their 9 game road trip (other possibly challenging stops on that trip include a back to back in PHI and NY; it ends in Boston on 2/12).

EDIT: Quicken Loans Arena? Come on. I have that same reaction every time I see it.
   2578. andrewberg Posted: January 20, 2012 at 02:06 PM (#4041259)
Yeah, there is absolutely no reason to be pushing Rose now. Neither Chicago nor Miami can "win" anything in the regular season. HCA would be nice for either of them, but it is much less valuable than guaranteeing a healthy Rose.
   2579. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 20, 2012 at 02:43 PM (#4041328)
Bucks suspend Steven Jackson for their next game (NYK). I say the clock is ticking on Skiles's tenure up there...
   2580. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: January 20, 2012 at 03:12 PM (#4041371)
Drunken trade idea that I heard last night. Pau Gasol to the Bucks for Jennings, Jackson and Gooden. I think the numbers match and the latter two seem like pieces the Bucks would love to get rid of. It's basically a Pau for Jennings swap with the other pieces to even out the numbers, though Gooden would help a Pau-less Laker team a bit. Based on Brandon's play this year, and the Lakers desperate need for some speed on the perimeter, I thought it was a pretty interesting idea. Any thoughts?
   2581. Jimmy P Posted: January 20, 2012 at 03:50 PM (#4041418)
Drunken trade idea that I heard last night. Pau Gasol to the Bucks for Jennings, Jackson and Gooden.

I think the Lakers would be a lot worse off. And taking on significant salary (Gooden's length of contract) and one of the biggest headaches in the league. There's just no upside for them unless they really feel that Bynum can play all season and McBob, Gooden, and the rest of that motley crew is good enough.

And, I can't say I like it for the Bucks, either. Just on fit. Pau is the best player in the deal.
   2582. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 20, 2012 at 03:59 PM (#4041427)
As good as any. I'm not sure either team would do that; Jennings is a good young player, and they're not contending for at least another year anyways. The last thing the Lakers want is a contract like Gooden's that goes for another three seasons after this one, and it's quite possible that there's not enough basketball for both Kobe and Cap'n Jack. Also, who can forget the last time you put Jax and Artest/MWP on the same team? I'd predict a riot. (It's not very pretty, I tell thee.)

Here's what I wrote RR last night on the Lakers' immediate future:
Man, we were never in it tonight. Not ever.

I actually have no idea. I'd trade for Howard if I could, but I don't think Orlando will go for it without Gasol and Howard isn't coming if Gasol isn't here. They don't have the cap space to sign anyone meaningful. I'm really not sure what I could do to make this particular roster a contender. That's what so infuriating about the Chris Paul debacle: that was the Lakers' chance at revitalizing the team. Now, there's really not another player at that level they can acquire that's available. There's literally not another top-25 player they can grab.

The Lakers are that ugly zone where they're an expensive playoff team with large contract commitments, but they're not actual title contenders. They can't net more talent, and key players are old. To get another good player, they'd have to trade either Gasol and/or Bynum, and given the dollar totals, the only useful guys they can trade for they can't get.

End of an era, gents.

(And a coke to Jimmy.)
   2583. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: January 20, 2012 at 04:12 PM (#4041435)
They can't net more talent, and key players are old.

They can get more talent (and they don't need much more- at least not this year.) They can get a player with their trade exception if they are willing to spend the money. Whether or not they will is another question- and whether or not they can get the precise piece they need is another- but they have the ability to get better.

EDITed to provide minimal coherence
   2584. Manny Coon Posted: January 20, 2012 at 04:41 PM (#4041467)
By the way, thanks for the responses on O/D. It seems to me that it SHOULD be 50/50, but more and more I'm realizing/understanding that the standard seems to be to weigh O a lot more than D.


My opinion is that is adds up to 50/50 but shifts depending on the situation. For star players offense is more important (because you can run your offense through them often), but for role players defense is more important (because see they ball less on offense but always need to be ready to defend). For big men defense is more important (they have the valuable role of protecting basket against all opposing players who enter the paint and can't rely as much on help defenders themselves) but for guards scoring is more important. After that roster construction plays major role as well, if you already have a lot of scoring, defense is better but if you already have a lot of defense, offense better; overall there are diminishing returns on each.

As for the Lakers I wouldn't count them out yet, they are 10-6 despite playing one of the toughest schedules in the league and Gasol having the worst season of his career so far. If Gasol's production is only a small sample size slump, they are still a very dangerous team, especially if they use their exception. I've been a Clippers fan forever and don't like the Lakers at all, especially Kobe and his 38.9% usage, so I want the Lakers to be dead as much as anyone, but they aren't there yet.
   2585. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: January 20, 2012 at 05:41 PM (#4041520)
ESPN (Broussard) reports D-Will wants out of Brooklyn unless Howard joins up. Among teams he'd like are Knicks and story points out that Knicks could offer Amere or Anthony.

You obviously give up Anthony for D-Will in a millisecond. D-Will and Amare at least kinda get you back to where you were before The Trade that Dare Not Speak Its Name.
   2586. Into the Void Posted: January 20, 2012 at 06:06 PM (#4041541)
You obviously give up Anthony for D-Will in a millisecond. D-Will and Amare at least kinda get you back to where you were before The Trade that Dare Not Speak Its Name.


This would essentially require Dolan to admit he made a mistake, which I can't see happening.
   2587. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 20, 2012 at 06:28 PM (#4041559)
Speaking of tough schedules, the Clippers have had the toughest SoS thus far, according to B-Ref. They've ticked wins over Dallas, Miami, Portland, Houston, and the Lakers. That's pretty impressive for a team that's in its "feeling out" phase.
   2588. Zipperholes Posted: January 20, 2012 at 06:46 PM (#4041575)
ESPN (Broussard) reports D-Will wants out of Brooklyn unless Howard joins up. Among teams he'd like are Knicks and story points out that Knicks could offer Amere or Anthony.

You obviously give up Anthony for D-Will in a millisecond.
If the choice is hold onto Williams and hope Howard signs or trade Williams for one of the very worst contracts in the league, I think I would choose the former.
   2589. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: January 20, 2012 at 07:43 PM (#4041614)
Pau Gasol to the Bucks for Jennings, Jackson and Gooden
i'd do that if i were the bucks. bogut and gasol would be a hell of a frontline to put together, and jennings really isn't anything special.

the biggest downside of this, for both teams, would be that they'd be stuck with all of the contracts. as is, gooden is a prime candidate to be amnestied, but if he's traded, that option goes away.

and likewise, for the lakers, if they amnestied gasol, that'd be 20 million off their cap in an hour.


if this trade were to go through, the lakers would be stuck with fisher, blake, artest, gooden, jackson, and walton. that's a lot of bad contract to have concentrated on a single team.**
If the choice is hold onto Williams and hope Howard signs or trade Williams for one of the very worst contracts in the league, I think I would choose the former.

both 'melo and williams are having pretty wretched years (in terms of efficiency). if i were the nets, i'd think that having melo--contract and all--would be preferable to not having melo and not having deron williams, and not having dwight howard.

with brook lopez gone for the year, taking any potential dwight howard trade off the table, at least in the near term, i think this would be a solid move for the nets.

it wouldn't be the homerun that landing williams and howard would be, but putting melo next to lopez, humphries, brooks, morrow, and farmar wouldn't be the worst way to enter a new city and a new arena.

plus, i think they'd still have some cap room.**


**i don't know if it's just me, but storytellers has been offline for a few days, so i'm kind of flying blind w/r/t contract info.
   2590. Zipperholes Posted: January 20, 2012 at 08:30 PM (#4041638)
if i were the nets, i'd think that having melo--contract and all--would be preferable to not having melo and not having deron williams, and not having dwight howard.
I'd rather spend the $20M a year on Russian escorts.

If your goal is to put butts in seats, I'd consider it, but if it's to win basketball games, acquiring Carmelo Anthony is generally a pretty bad idea.
   2591. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 20, 2012 at 08:35 PM (#4041640)
If your goal is to put butts in seats, I'd consider it, but if it's to win basketball games, acquiring Carmelo Anthony is generally a pretty bad idea.


That's fair, but if you're the Nets, if you whiff on Dwight and are going to lose Deron to free agency, I think you might have to do something desperate, because tanking the first couple years in Brooklyn to rebuild the team isn't really the best way to announce your presence in Brooklyn with authority...
   2592. Manny Coon Posted: January 20, 2012 at 08:46 PM (#4041646)
If your goal is to put butts in seats, I'd consider it, but if it's to win basketball games, acquiring Carmelo Anthony is generally a pretty bad idea.


Anthony is overrated, but he's still pretty good, even if he's not an elite superstar player. He certainly has a much better contract than Amare. Even stats that hate volume scorers like WP rate him above average this year. If you look at the On/Off number on 82games, the Knicks are much, much worse when Anthony is off the floor, he's not their problem, its a combination of Amare being terrible this year and giving big minutes to guys like Bibby, Walker, Shumpert and Douglas.
   2593. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: January 20, 2012 at 08:57 PM (#4041652)
If your goal is to put butts in seats, I'd consider it, but if it's to win basketball games, acquiring Carmelo Anthony is generally a pretty bad idea.
are we talking about the same player? last time i checked, carmelo was the best player on a syracuse team that won a national championship.

and in his first year in denver, the nuggets improved by 23 games in the w/l column.
and in each of his 7 full years in denver, he led the team the playoffs.
and in each of his last 3 years in denver, his nuggets won 50+ games.


he's not a bad player; he's a good player, having a bad year.
   2594. Zipperholes Posted: January 20, 2012 at 09:16 PM (#4041658)
If you look at the On/Off number on 82games, the Knicks are much, much worse when Anthony is off the floor, he's not their problem, its a combination of Amare being terrible this year and giving big minutes to guys like Bibby, Walker, Shumpert and Douglas.
If you want to use On/off stats, according to adjusted +/-, he has finished in the top 50 in the league one time in the last four years: he was 49th. And that's only among players who got significant playing time. My conclusion from this year's stats is that he hasn't been as bad as his teammates, who have been awful.
   2595. Zipperholes Posted: January 20, 2012 at 09:32 PM (#4041671)
are we talking about the same player? last time i checked, carmelo was the best player on a syracuse team that won a national championship.
I have no idea whether this is serious. I suppose NBA GMs for not picking up Juan Dixon and Sean May?
EDIT: are kicking themseves?
and in his first year in denver, the nuggets improved by 23 games in the w/l column.
They also had almost a completely revamped roster, including Andre Miller and Marcus Camby in their primes.
and in each of his 7 full years in denver, he led the team the playoffs.
and in each of his last 3 years in denver, his nuggets won 50+ games.
Thanks partly to him, to the superior Billups, and to some other pretty good talent.
he's not a bad player; he's a good player, having a bad year.
He's an unspectacular player who does a couple things very well and is paid like one of the game's greats.
   2596. Into the Void Posted: January 20, 2012 at 10:11 PM (#4041695)
The Lakers have 31 at the end of the first half. Kobe looks quite perturbed.
   2597. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: January 20, 2012 at 10:27 PM (#4041701)
i'm pretty happy with that win. they outrebounded the hawks 51-32, and they had a 19-8 advantage from the FT line. they outscored the hawks 51-29 in the 2nd half.


and probably the most encouraging part of this win is that this was the first win where their offense wasn't firing on all cylinders.

hopefully the team comes out to play from the opening tip tomorrow, because i'd really like to avoid having to claw back a 20 point deficit against miami.
I have no idea whether this is serious. I suppose NBA GMs for not picking up Juan Dixon and Sean May?
EDIT: are kicking themseves?
the issue i was addressing was your argument that a team can't win with him.

i'd agree that his performance as a freshman at syracuse really has no tangible impact on his performance with the knicks, but for a player that is as much of a negative as you seem to think he is, he really seems to find himself on as the best player on a lot of teams that win a lot of games.
   2598. JJ1986 Posted: January 20, 2012 at 10:40 PM (#4041705)
The Knicks just need to sign Gerry McNamara and Hakim Warrick.
   2599. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: January 20, 2012 at 10:51 PM (#4041713)
lamarcus aldridge had a pretty okay night up in canadia.
   2600. Zipperholes Posted: January 20, 2012 at 10:56 PM (#4041716)
the issue i was addressing was your argument that a team can't win with him.

i'd agree that his performance as a freshman at syracuse really has no tangible impact on his performance with the knicks, but for a player that is as much of a negative as you seem to think he is, he really seems to find himself on as the best player on a lot of teams that win a lot of games.
Obviously he's not a bad player. I don't think you can build a winning team around him.

He seems to be a good passer and is the rare player who can generate offense by himself when his team needs it, and probably makes his teammates better on the offensive end. Besides those aspects, I think he's an average player, much less a superstar, and a terrible way to spend $20M a year.
Page 26 of 33 pages ‹ First  < 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Darren
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

Newsblog7-25-14 OMNICHATTER
(57 - 6:43am, Jul 26)
Last: Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October

NewsblogESPN : GM Offers To Get Prostate Exam During Game
(18 - 6:20am, Jul 26)
Last: Joe Bivens, Minor Genius

Newsblog5 for Friday: Leo Mazzone, pitching coach to the HOFers
(28 - 5:00am, Jul 26)
Last: cardsfanboy

NewsblogOTP - July 2014: Republicans Lose To Democrats For Sixth Straight Year In Congressional Baseball Game
(3205 - 2:40am, Jul 26)
Last: robinred

NewsblogRe/code: Major League Baseball Cries Foul on Net Neutrality Proposal
(7 - 2:17am, Jul 26)
Last: Bhaakon

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread- July 2014
(944 - 2:14am, Jul 26)
Last: RollingWave

NewsblogBA Report: MLBPA Files Grievance Against Astros Over Aiken, Nix, Marshall
(11 - 2:08am, Jul 26)
Last: Bhaakon

NewsblogHurdles remain in Mets-Rockies deal for Tulowitzki, Gonzalez
(34 - 1:04am, Jul 26)
Last: Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band.

NewsblogWisch: Cooperstown Shouldn’t Close Out Lee Smith
(23 - 12:50am, Jul 26)
Last: bobm

NewsblogSurprising Sports Stars – Guided by Voices’ Robert Pollard
(16 - 9:52pm, Jul 25)
Last: eddieot

NewsblogOT: The Soccer Thread July, 2014
(414 - 8:38pm, Jul 25)
Last: J. Sosa

NewsblogThe Inventor of the High Five
(30 - 8:32pm, Jul 25)
Last: Willie Mayspedes

NewsblogSoE: AN IDIOT IN EXILE
(4 - 8:24pm, Jul 25)
Last: The Yankee Clapper

NewsblogNoble: Tom Seaver expects Derek Jeter to become first unanimous Hall of Fame inductee
(88 - 7:50pm, Jul 25)
Last: Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick.

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 7-25-2014
(8 - 7:27pm, Jul 25)
Last: Eric J can SABER all he wants to

Page rendered in 1.1699 seconds
53 querie(s) executed