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i think it's fairly clear that you can build a winning team around him (it's basically every team he's ever been on), i just don't think the current version of the knicks are that team.
and speaking of the knicks, the sixers are now 5 full games up on them in the atlantic division.
The Knicks host the Nuggets tomorrow at the Garden.
It this how the rest of the league normally feels, down here in the muck? Christ, but this sucks.
Edit to add that these two games are the first two of a 13-game stretch where they play 10 on the road. Looking at the schedule, they could easily go 3-10 over this stretch. I don't want to overreact like I always do, but with three of the top 30 players in the league on the roster, you'd think a decent coach would have figured out how to crack 100 points more than ONE ####### TIME this entire season.
Darko was the only one who really played well and it's still a w.
I think the only guy who can stop the Wolves right now is Michael Beasley.
A couple good ones fell into my lap last night, so I was at the game. Anthony (and for that matter Amare) are just completely lost on defense. I know the efficiency numbers aren't terrible, but there's no way this is a good defensive team. Anthony doesn't give close to the requisite effort on D.
Bernard was in the house and the board showed him saluting the crowd ... and, well, the contrast between the old and new high-usage Knick 3s couldn't help but come to mind. The thought of Melo singlehandly taking a team like the 84 Celtics to a 7th game, lighting up a defender the caliber of Kevin McHale throughout, as Bernard did, is nothing short of comical.
This is why I laugh when I see analysts (and I've seen it in a couple places) say that the Knicks D has improved and off-handedly remark that the OPP 3% they're giving up is a fluke. Yes, it may not remain that high, but anyone who watches this team on a regular basis knows the rotations/close-outs are terrible and that's why teams can shoot 3s with impunity. Were it not for the steals the team generates they'd be near the bottom in D as well. It also doesn't hurt that we've played some terrible teams. Just a ########### of a team.
Pau is 31 and playing through a shoulder injury. Also, his role in the new O does not suit him all that well. Finally, the lack of a PG makes everyone look worse. I have also noticed that all the main guys affected by LeVeto (Odom, Scola, Gasol, Gordon, and Martin) are off a bit.
Dagoberto and LAAFP were talking about what the Lakers can do. Basically, they can either try to get Howard by trading Gasol and Bynum for Howard and something else (Probably Turkoglu, whose pass/handle would actually help the Lakers. If I tried this, I would try to get Howard to sign a two-year extension with the Lakers, like Paul did with the Clippers--that way his deal parallels Kobe's and Howard can leave at age 29 if things are not working out) or they can offer Pau to Houston for a package that shores up the roster. Hollinger asserted in chat two days ago that Houston would trade Lowry for Pau. I think Hollinger is wrong, but if he isn't, then the Lakers could offer Pau for Lowry and Scola. If Hollinger is wrong, then they could offer Pau + something else for Scola/Dragic/Budinger/Thabeet. Houston gets Pau, pairs him with Lowry, and gets out of Scola's deal. The Lakers get a decent young PG, a cheap young 3 who can shoot, Pau's replacement at the 4, and a big body. You need Thabeet to make the money work. All the deals above work in the Trade Machine.
To be clear here, I am not saying that Houston or Orlando or the Lakers would or should make these deals, but that these are the basic options Buss has in terms of stuff that he can try. This all assumes that Buss is actually willing to spend money to try to improve the team--which I assume he is as long as Kobe is under contract. If he isn't, all this is moot, and in that case, they should just trade Pau in the off-season, amnesty Kobe, re-sign Bynum, and start over.
also, villanova is a terrible, terible team.
also, i really miss being able to look at the team pages on kenpom.com.
And at this point, I don't think I'd consider it. Bryant's playing as well as he ever has right now, and people will still pay to watch him rain buckets. (And critics who want to thump on Bryant's usage rate hasn't realized yet just how much a disaster the offense is when he doesn't have the ball in his hands.) I was hesitant before to package Gasol and Bynum for another max star, but it's apparent to me that the combination of those two bigs has already peaked -- even if Bynum gets better, Gasol's only going to decline, and as RR says they're just not a great combination on the floor in this offensive gameplan (or rather, lack thereof).
As for Hollinger's suggestion, I wouldn't do it if I were Houston. Howard isn't coming here for a rebuild, LA or no LA. I think the Lakers are genuinely mired in a swamp at this point, trapped on the downslope of the success cycle.
I am mostly with you. But here are JH's actual words:
As to the other stuff: you may be right. Again, I don't really want to get into the merits/realism of the ideas--others can, of course--just saying that those are the logical things Buss can TRY to do.
As far as Kobe, if the team isn't trying to win, there is no point to his being here, other than just the (important to Lakers fans and maybe to Kobe himself) optics of retiring as a Laker and obviously the fact that he puts butts in the Staples seats. Cynics would say that he wouldn't mind finishing up on a crappy team so he could gun as much as he wants, of course, but I do think the guy wants to win. I doubt that an amnesty scenario will happen, but it's not impossible. If it were, they would have amnestied MWP or Walton already, and they didn't.
I don't know about the latter, but I would be pretty surprised if their defense hasn't improved since they have Tyson Chandler at center this year.
The Knicks schedule in March is absolutely brutal. If they aren't 5 or so above .500 by the time they roll into March, they will be lucky to make the playoffs.
I so wanted to hate him in the day but he was a great player and fun to watch, even as a 76ers fan.
I watched some of the Knicks game on League Pass (the Bucks, yes, the BUCKS, are one of my five) and enjoyed listening to King, Frazier, and Spero Dedes.
I'd love to hear why.
Lin made his season debut in the d league (as a knick assignee). 28-11-12, not shabby.
Ahhh, gotcha. Right now they are 11th on BR; last year they were 22nd. I'm not sure if they were better or worse after the trade for Melo, though. They have significantly cut down on shots allowed at the rim (6th fewest this year while they allowed 3rd most last year), which I believe could be mostly for real and so far accounts for about 5 PPG less.
i know he hasn't really done anything at all in the NBA, but i think the best guy the sixers could match up against bosh right now is craig brackins. he's not a good defender, but physically, he's really the only guy who's close to a match against him.
evan turner put up 14 points on 6/9 shooting. that was probably his best half as a sixer.
eurogoon put up 11 and 6 in a team leading 17 minutes.
How do you feel about that? That is a serious question--no snark.
At least Landry's looked like he has a pulse these last few games.
On the bright side, Rubio bounced back for probably his best game of the year. 17 on 5-12 with 11 assists and only 2 turnovers. He also owned the offense for longer stretches than usual. I think it was his season high on minutes and he was never anything less than the focal point of the offense. He also had 3 great passes- one half court alley-oop that was wiped out by a whistle, one fast break alley-oop kind of moving backwards, and a wrap around bounce pass for a dunk.
Derek Williams also played his best game. It created some defensive problems against Utah's talented front court, but he and Love together up front are always a nightmare.
God I hope they find some way for Beasley not to come back.
I didn't see the Heat game. I'm guessing they're not worried about that playoff matchup.
*Scal played in the first quarter but the dumbass fans still were chanting for him in the last couple of minutes when the Bulls were up double digits (the Bobcats made the final score closer than the game was). He did make a really nice pass though.
almost immediately after he was taken out of the game, miami went on a 12-2 run to close the 3rd. and then with their 9-2 run at the start of the 4th, the game just completely got away.
Millsap again played like a super star. In the last 10 days he's outperformed Love, Nowitzki, Griffin, Nene, and Gasol. The Jazz were once again better with Watson on the floor than Harris, and there are rumors the Jazz are shopping Harris. C.J. Miles' lockout work seems to finally be paying off as he's stopped settling for jumpshots and started attacking the rim. They really need him to keep this up to have any shot at the playoffs, because he's probably their best player at creating his own shot off the dribble.
They have needs (center, 2 guard, etc...) what can we trade him for? Other than Rubio, Love and Williams anyone on the team can be packaged up and traded as far as I am concerned.
You're right, though, everyone else is expendable. I think Williams is not a 3, btw.
honestly, he seems like the kind of guy who's gonna float around for the next ~5 years doing next to nothing, and then, when he's 27/28, things are gonna click for him, he's gonna shoot 50% from the floor and 40% from beyond the arc, he'll put up something like 20 and 8 and play good enough defense to be talked up as an all star at PF.
now, though, his defense is piss poor, his shot selection is piss poor, his ball handling is piss poor. he's just too bad at too many things to think he's worth giving up anything of significant value.
or basically, exactly what 2645 said.
I don't really think things will ever necessarily click for him, but it seems like he'd have some value for a team that needs scoring off the bench. Yeah, he'll take stupid shots but he can score and get to the line fairly consistently right?
As far as tonight...the Lakers didn't really play all that badly, and although the Pacers are a good 3 pt shooting team, they were a little hot...but this is just who the Lakers are right now. Teams on the second and high-third tiers are just a little better than they are.
I have not looked at the sched past the next three, but they can easily lose all three. All three teams--LAC, @MIL, and @MIN--have offenses with multiple playmakers playing at the same time, which exposes the Lakers, like IND's 3pt hits exposed them tonight.
___
I had a couple of long Lakers posts last page, and made the point that there is not that much to say about them right now, other than speculating about moves. It is pretty obvious that with this personnel, Shaw would have been a better hire; and it is pretty obvious how bad Stern's veto is hurting them--which is of course a big reason they have this personnel. Don't really see where to go with it on a non-Laker discussion board, and what is going on on those is mostly venting and trade ideas--some silly, and some OK.
Kobe played quite well Friday in Orlando--30/8 on 50% shooting and took a very reasonable number of shots (22). The other guys, as you posted, went 18/54, and the Lakers were never in the game. Sums it up.
I will say that those sneering at me for choosing the Bucks on League Pass aren't laughing at me tonight, after the big W in South Beach, huh? ;-)
between that and losing both hawes and vucevic for crunch time, i've still got a little confidence that the sixers could do some damage against them in the playoffs. admittedly, i've got less confidence than i had before saturday, but that game and that quote put a little (really, just a little) puff back in my chest.
oh, and there was this gem from lebron on shane battier's use of the word "clunker", in reference to their performance:
"I don't even know what that means," James said when asked to affirm Battier's diagnosis. "Shane has words I've never heard, maybe it's a college word."
So that makes the Bucks what 5 and 10, Robin?
Sounds like Rose plans on playing tonight against the Nets but Deng and Gibson are out. Noah is a gametime decision.
Please stop.
and if the sixers were 6-10 instead of 11-5, how much #### do you think i'd take for what i said prior to the season's start?
even now, with the sixers record being what it is, i'm taking ####. and (aside from a knock on the celtics once or maybe twice) i haven't said even one derogatory word about another team.
but still, pile on the hate. i can take it. and you should get some more kindling tonight, since the sixers will likely get torched by javale mcgee in the absence of both hawesome and eurogoon.
if brand is out, that would leave only thaddeus young, tony battie, lavoy allen, and craig brackins as available big men to match up against mcgee, blatche, seraphin, booker, and lewis. not exactly a murderer's row.
should be fun.
Wolves beat writer was speculating that tonight would be a great time to announce a KLove extension, with McHale in town to coach Houston. I think I would allow him to have the team's designated 5 year deal, even though it would be nice if he took the 4 year one. Anyone have strong feelings about that divide?
love's qualifying offer is 1/6 (or thereabouts), so if he chose to sign the qualifying offer instead of the current 4/60 offer, he'd be leaving quite a bit on the table this year, plus he'd be risking a significant payday in case injury were to hit before he does get that max deal.
and also, even if love signs for 4/60, it doesn't mean that he won't get a 5th year at the max, it just means that the 5th year will have to come on his next contract.
yeah, i can't see there being any way that the lakers do that.
No offense, tship, but this is the kind of thing I have to disagree with. I did note that Pau is aging, hurt, and not comfortable in the O, but the Lakers' biggest problem is that they are carrying 6-7 guys who don't belong on an NBA roster. If Kobe were 28 and Bynum were Shaq, it might work. This way, it doesn't. Pau is not what he was three years ago, and I do think that both he and Bynum are hung over from the trade sagas. But they are not the problem.
Brown has not impressed; he seems to be a better interview than coach. But I won't judge too much right now, given the roster.
Moses and NJ: I picked the Bucks because I think they have some interesting players (Bogut, Jennings, and Livingston) and I am a little burned out on hype and storylines (Rose! Rubio! Lakers! Heat! D12! Veto! Knicks! Lob City!) so I decided to pick a team that is just plugging away and trying to win some basketball games. The Bucks are that team to a T. I also picked the Grizzlies for some of the same reasons.
I don't blame Orlando for not trading Howard, and it will no doubt add to HaterBoy delight. But all that it is probably leading to is LeBron II. It is highly unlikely that Orlando will be able to upgrade enough to beat Miami or Chicago, much less both of them, so I think we are most likely looking at Howard and Williams to Dallas. Cuban has set up his cap situation well, and I note that Dirk is taking the next three games off to work on "conditioning."
A new media meme is that "Dwight doesn't know what he wants." I think that is BS, and Howard knows exactly what he wants: he wants to play in on a serious contender in a big market with Paul or Williams at the 1. In the wake of The Veto, there is no team that fits those criteria until he hits FA.
I'm not so sure on that. I know it's horrible to say in statistically leaning circles, but are we sure that Love is a max player? I just am not sure you want to tie your franchise to an unathletic big man who doesn't have the offense run through him and is not a good defensive player.
I don't think Williams is the max guy on that team, but I can easily see why the front office thinks Rubio could be.
The reason the Lakers have 6-7 guys who are barely NBA players is because they have 3 very highly-paid star level players. They would have been similarly structured even had they pulled off the Paul deal. The problem, at this point, isn't just the wealth of mediocrity (and worse) at the end of the bench (and in the starting line-up) the problem is that one of the three highly-paid, star level players isn't much more than a mediocre guy right now. And it's been that way since there was about a month left in last season. Gasol has collapsed more suddenly than any high-level basketball player I can remember watching.
This team looks much like the team that got beat the playoffs last year, owing largely to the fact that Gasol is not close to what he was just 40 games ago. He's not quite the garbage he was in the playoffs last year, but he's not a clear all-star level player at this point. And with him at this level, soaking up the dollars he soaks up, the team is going to have trouble competing at a top level. If Gasol were still playing as he did a year ago (calendar wise) they would still have depth issues and still be slow on the perimeter- but they'd have two excellent 7 footers, a great 2 guard, would be playing good defense and would still be a team nobody wants to deal with in a series. Instead, this team has two good players and a bunch of overpaid dead weight.
They do still defend though. Some changes are coming, one way or the other, as long as they still play D- I can wait it out.
He has not had a particularly good year to date, and he is averaging about 24-14. He gets to the line constantly and makes threes, which makes him a pretty efficient offensive player despite not being an elite athlete. His defense has improved with his weight loss, and when you include his rebounding as part of limiting possessions for the defense, I think he's average on that end. It is kind of like those HOF debates about how big your hall is: you would have to have a pretty short list of max-worthy guys to start from the presumption that Love is not max-worthy.
Plus, though it is the sort of thing I hate when people say, so I am perhaps being a hypocrit, but the wolves can't afford to be too picky. At some point even trapped as a mid range playoff team (the risk of these sorts of signings) looks better than where they have been.
Rubio's defense is so good, he can prevent guys from scoring from another continent.
It's actually pretty impressive to hear Flynn take responsibility for himself that way. There is no shortage of scapegoats in the Minnesota organization over the last couple of years, and there's no hint that he puts his struggles on Rambis, Kahn, Sessions, Ridnour, other teammates, injuries, etc.
Which means either NJ or Dallas.
I'll say this, though: it's a lot more fun to watch your team on the upswing than on the slide down. Witness the silence of Celtic posters and the disgust of Laker posters here.
(nods dejectedly)
Shh! Don't jinx it! We just need Paul Pierce to round into form, Rajon Rondo to keep doing the work of three men, Kevin Garnett's knees to reverse-age three-five years, Jermaine O'Neal to be healthier than he will be, and everything will be fine! This Celtics team is on the cusp of putting it all together again!
w/r/t the losses, the injuries aren't much of an excuse (though the concentration of the injuries at the team's weakest position certainly isn't ideal) because everyone is going to have to deal with injuries at some point in the season. for the same reason, the compressed schedule isn't an excuse either.
it's just the way things are going to be this year.
i didn't come on here predicting a 25 point win against miami (though i guess i kind of did that with the loss to the knicks a few weeks back). and if they had won that game, i wouldn't have come on here proclaiming the sixers as the new king of the mountain.
i really do understand where they are in the general scheme of things, but i'm not gonna come on here and kiss lebron's ring. this is a good team, and in a 7 game series, i believe they have a chance against anyone in this league. if this team was going up against the jordan bulls, i'd say the same thing. they have a chance. probably not 50/50, but they're better than people think, and this team does not quit.
I can go with this. Because I do think there's only a few guys in the league that are true max guys. I'm just not sure he's one of them.
Nah. It's mostly because they badly overcommitted to Walton, Blake, MWP and Fisher, both in terms of money and years. They also did the same thing with Kobe and Pau, but that is a different sort of problem. Also, Buss showed his amateur side by blowing one million on Kapono. The pick up there should have been Delonte West, who also signed a one-year deal at the minimum.
Had Stern let the deal go through, Howard would have probably given Otis Smith a one-team wish list. Whether Howard would have actually gotten traded here is another question, since the pressure on DeVos and Smith NOT to do that would have been immense.
But a team with Paul at the 1 and McRoberts at the 4 would, in today's game, be better than what they have now.
As to Pau, it is a combination of things, already discussed. But he is still a very good player. For whatever reason, many Lakers fans seem to focus on him as the problem, perhaps because of 2009 and 2010. Both he and the fanbase need a change at this point, I think.
Just kidding, although I'd be surprised if that Houston offer remains on the table, because it seemed as though they were most interested in doing a twin towers, all first name front court with Pau and Nene. Pau and Dalembert does not strike fear in the same way. I wish we had a Rockets fan here because they seem like a perpetually interesting team. I was behind the curve on Chandler Parsons, and I hate when that happens.
Probably not with Martin, but maybe, as I suggested, with Budinger. Morey's team is "interesting" but is not going anywhere as constructed.
Pau was quoted today as saying he wants more low-post action; feels more comfortable down there.
So...you know, I don't actually read this thread, but every time I see your name on the thread in Hot Topics, I find I can make this joke.
i'm actually just a little disappointed. i'd be really curious at what the sixers' rotation would look like without its 3 biggest forwards.
There are rumors Deng could be done for the year.
hopefully they can maintain their intensity through the next 3.
i'll take it.
Avril Lavigne doesn't strike me as someone who'd have a wine cellar, but maybe there's some zoning rule or homeowner's covenant that requires one.
I also always wondered when these giant mansions change hands. It's a lot of money to spend for someone else's house. They must spend quite a bit to redecorate.
javale mcgee: 2 pts, 2 reb, 2 blocks, 1/4, 0/2 FT, 20:55
lavoy allen: 10 pts, 6 reb, 1 assist, 1 block, 5/5, 17:26
i just want to take a minute to eat just a little teaspoon of crow. i was pretty critical of the sixers drafting lavoy allen, but, in what little time he's had on the floor, he's actually flashed the potential to be a pretty crumulent rotation player.
I didn't watch the Wolves very closely tonight. I had it on in the background, and it was apparent that Love had his stroke back (phrasing!). He scored 39 points, but the rest of the offense was pretty spotty. Rubio had 11 assists in an otherwise unimpressive game. Derek Williams started and continues to look really solid. He is probably their best finisher around the rim and a truly explosive athlete.
The biggest thing I noticed was how bad their defensive rotations were tonight. That was atrocious last year, and wasn't at that level tonight, but was probably the worst it has been all year. Martin and Scola are just smarter that MN right now.
Finally, Love got poked in the eye again tonight. Also got eye gouged on Saturday against Utah. My count is up to eight so far this year. WOOO!
I'm hoping it forces him to go for this look. Hell I'd even settle for this.
Last night Thibs put Rose back in the game with 6 min left and up 16. He had only played 27 mins to that point. At the same time Avery Johnson pulled Deron Williams, essentially conceding the game. Rose played the rest of the game. Thibs just doesn't care about this resting and conserving thing. To be fair, that's the only real complaint I have about him now. Rip had his best game as a Bull last night and I am surprisingly enjoying him playing off the ball with Rose. Its working better than I would have thought.
No Rondo, no Ray, no Pietrus or Dooling (or even Wilcox oh no!), and they drop the defensive hammer on a full-strength Magic squad. Granted, Orlando was w/out Shaq & Penny & McGrady, but that just doesn't make a damn lick of sense.
Try the sports reference cbb site. We've added a lot of sabermetric content there this year.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/
Sort of sums up why there's not much to say about the Celtics from where I'm sitting. You're going to get anything from a team that looks like a legit title contender to lottery fodder on any given night, and they are headed for a 3-8 seed and done in the 1st or 2nd round, with no chance to win the title unless Rose/Lebron suffer season ending injuries. They are what they are.
The only things of real interest now are a) what Ainge is going to do at the trade deadline and b) what Ainge is going to do in the offseason.
he's only averaging 8 and 6, and he's only shooting 43% from the floor, but still, seeing those words in that combination brings a nice smile out on my face. he really did not get enough of a chance to show what he could do under doug collins, so it's good to see him produce when given the opportunity down in memphis.
although, that memphis pick is protected if they finish with a top 5 record, so maybe i should be hoping for a bit less production.
Pretty much where the Lakers are.
Abbott didn't write about this game or about Melo's shot selection in it. Has written about Kobe twice since then, however.
Glad I decided to read some of this thread for a bit today. Thanks.
1. Kobe is obviously more high profile (yay page views!)
2. IIRC, Melo's game winning shot numbers, which is a big part of what this is all about (I think...I may not remember at this point) are actually pretty good, or at least better than Kobe's. I almost typed Satan for Kobe just now and it made me think of how Melo is a homeless man's Kobe. So...who/what is a homeless man's Satan?
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