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Friday, December 02, 2011

NBA THREAD DECEMBER: POST-LOCKOUT

With the lockout over, I estimate that there may be more than 10-12 Primates who want to talk about the NBA, and with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: fractional reserve banking, and Tim Tebow.

rr Posted: December 02, 2011 at 12:26 AM | 3254 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: general

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   2801. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 26, 2012 at 05:54 AM (#4045994)
I'm really liking the infusion of Jazz fans.
   2802. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 26, 2012 at 08:04 AM (#4046004)
Just saw the highlights...I'm starting to think the Clippers and Lakers don't like each other.
   2803. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: January 26, 2012 at 08:14 AM (#4046006)
Not disputing Jordan got his share of calls

And everyone else's too.
   2804. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 26, 2012 at 08:40 AM (#4046010)
Guys, I didn't mean to imply Jordan was blameless, just that the more shots you make the harder it is to criticize your shot selection. Depending on when you catch me I will gladly let you know that the player I have the most hatred for is Jordan, Melo, Kobe, Chris Duhon, Jared Jeffries or Jamal Crawford.
   2805. rr Posted: January 26, 2012 at 11:38 AM (#4046087)
Gasol got more touches inside, Kobe shot less, and the Lakers ORTG went up to 114 from 109 in the Pacers game, and after criticizing Thorpe so harshly, I need to own that.

OTOH, my point in criticizing him was that what the Lakers really need is three-point shooting and playmaking, since, bascially, those are the things that Kobe, Bynum, and Pau can't do. They got both last night--8/16 on 3s, and 7 assists from the backup 3. Looks like they made a trade I missed--Metta World Peace for Ron Artest. Pau and Bynum only shot 23 times between them; they just hit more than usual. The Clippers don't match up well with Pau, since Evans and Griffin have relatively short arms.

I actually mentioned prior to the draft that I hoped the Lakers would take Goudelock, in hopes that he might be Eddie House or at least Jannero Pargo. Last night was the first night he was anything like those guys, and Fisher and Kobe knocked down 5/8 on 3s as well.

Part of that was just regression. The Lakers are a bad shooting team but they probably won't shoot 25% from 3 all year. I thought about that when MWP's dagger 3 dropped. But...it is just as likely that Goudelock and MWP will be awful against the Bucks and the Wolves this weekend.

Also, of course, had Paul been himself, the Clippers might well have won. I see his injury not so much as a bad luck thing as I do a who-he-is thing. He has not been super durable recently, he has some mileage, and he looks to me like he is about 10 pounds heavier than he should be. But it still needs to be part of the picture.
   2806. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 26, 2012 at 11:41 AM (#4046088)

No, this is heresy. Do you know why they called him "Air" Jordan? Because that's who kept fouling him.


I like the joke. I am also glad we didn't watch the '91 Finals together.
   2807. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: January 26, 2012 at 11:49 AM (#4046093)
It is important to note that the Sixers lost to the Nets. Milwaukee also ended the Rockets' 7 game winning streak, despite playing most of the game without Bogut who sprained his ankle early.

And no steagles yet. It was a home loss for Philly, and neither team played the day before. Based on the quality of teams involved, it looks like the 2nd most inexplicable loss so far this year (OKC losing at the Wiz tops the list, and might not be topped all season).

The Pacers win in Chicago last night means there are no longer any teams undefeated at home. As Matt noted last page, the Bulls/Pacers is turning into an interesting rivalry. Even though the Bulls have won the majority of the games (8-1 last year, including playoffs, 2 preseason wins this year that felt like regular season games, and then 0-1 this year thanks to last night), it's not a one-way rivalry. After the game, the Bulls acted like they lost a playoff series. Lots of interesting quotes afterwards, like this one:

"I will never forget how they celebrated just from winning this game," Derrick Rose said. "I can't wait to play them again."


That's pretty strong coming from him. I guess that's the team's reflection of how much importance Thibs puts on every game. Speaking of Thibs, it was inexcusable that Scal was on the floor to miss that shot. He subbed him in for Boozer to play defense (which Boozer should take as an insult, and even though Scal tries harder I don't think the actual difference is worth anything), and the Bulls didn't call a TO after they got a stop (they only had 1 TO left). The Pacers correctly completely ignored Scal (who is hesitant to shoot even in garbage time, and has the world's slowest release this side of Bill Cartwright), so he was left wide open to brick the 3. I don't think there was a Pacer within 15 feet of him on that shot. Like last year's loss in Denver that was JLIII's fault (well, Thibs put him in to play the last play of the game - first appearance of the game - and he bricked 2 FTs that could have sealed it), Thibs has too much confidence in these veterans that as far as I can tell don't deserve that trust. He did play Jimmy Butler early last night (and his nerves led to 2 quick turnovers); while he hasn't had an opportunity to earn that trust yet or learn the offensive and defensive systems, I hope he gets more chances as they strategically rest Deng (assuming he does come back and play Sunday against the Heat, there's no reason he needs to play every game).

---

I'm trying to stay out of the amateur and completely unclever Jordan bashing (due to my own bias), but will say star calls have been around from the beginning and will always be around.
   2808. rr Posted: January 26, 2012 at 12:02 PM (#4046107)
but will say star calls have been around from the beginning and will always be around.


Yep. I will say, though, that no one here is really "bashing" Jordan.
Just a little throwaway trashtalk from some fans of his vanquished foes. Every Laker fan here has acknowledged repeatedly that he is better than Kobe and most of us of all fan persuasions have said he is the best of all time.

   2809. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: January 26, 2012 at 12:16 PM (#4046116)

It is important to note that the Sixers lost to the Nets.
yeah, that was the first really bad loss of the season.

i've gotta think hawes is back on friday and saturday. losing this game was bad, but if they lose to charlotte or detroit on top of it, that'll just be an awful way to go into a tough stretch.
   2810. andrewberg Posted: January 26, 2012 at 12:49 PM (#4046164)
Wolves won in Dallas last night, now 2-0 against the depleted defending champs. Rubio had about as good of a 4-16 night as you can have- 17 points, 12 ast, 7 reb, 4 stl including one where he picked off a lazy outlet pass and took it in for a layup. He really dictated the pace of the game, and his stats would have looked even better if a couple of jumpers didn't rattle out. Still, it's encouraging that he can be the best player on the court while shooting 25%.

Apparently the whole Kardashian brood was in attendance to watch LO. I'm hoping the praying mantis doesn't set her evil tractor beam on another suddenly wealthy Minnesota rebounding machine. Love didn't do himself any favors, scoring 31 points on 9-16 shooting and hitting big shots whenever the offense was in a lull.

Dallas without Dirk is not a great team, but it is still impressive how deep they are. The starting lineup of Kidd, West, Marion, Odom, Haywood is very solid if lacking in star power, then they bring Jet, Beaubois, and Mahinmi off the bench. It seemed for a while that Jet was going to own the game, as he was red hot early, but he cooled off and they didn't have a reliable go-to on offense.

---

Jazz- I can see why Corbin likes to keep Watson in more than he probably should. He is a better facilitator and that team needs someone to help create shots for guys other than Millsap (and maybe Al, but he's a blackhole no matter who is at PG). Still, I think they'll be better off if Harris becomes comfortable in their crunch time lineup. Also, it seems like their best wings are Burks and Miles, but Burks has not developed a spot up game, and Miles' strength is as more of a slasher. Ideally, you'd have guys who complement each other and space the floor, but those guys- and even Harris- are all better moving to the basket, so there is some redundancy between them. I suppose that's why they like to have either Hayward or Bell on on the court with one or the other, but those guys suck.
   2811. Kurt Posted: January 26, 2012 at 01:21 PM (#4046197)
It's funny you guys are talking about Jordan free throws. Just yesterday, I was nostalgia-surfing the one NBA playoff game I saw in person - Game 3, Sixers-Bulls 1991. The Sixers won the game by two, while shooting 40 free throws to the Bulls' 19.

It would be interesting to see how the Bulls free throw differentials from, say 1988-93 would compare to the second MJ run.
   2812. Jimmy P Posted: January 26, 2012 at 02:52 PM (#4046272)
I've pretty much given up on Abbott because of his Kobe crap. I don't think I'm a Kobe apologist, but the guy has won titles. He's doing something right. And to wait until he's slowed and out of his prime to criticize him and then use one potential hall of famer as your whole argument is just lame and lazy. At least when Simmons is lazy in his Kobe criticism he admits it.
   2813. rr Posted: January 26, 2012 at 03:15 PM (#4046315)
I'm starting to think the Clippers and Lakers don't like each other.


Pau and Paul got into it a bit after the game.

I've pretty much given up on Abbott because of his Kobe crap


Abbott was apparently a very successful journalist prior to/concurrent with founding True Hoop and and then ESPN buying it/expanding it.

Some of his stuff on the lockout was OK, but I have not found him to be that readable as a writer (like Simmons and to an extent Hollinger) or to be that thoughtful about the game itself (like Lowe and Pelton). Abbott just seems to be mostly a guy who links stuff and bashes Kobe/defends LeBron every few days.
   2814. andrewberg Posted: January 26, 2012 at 03:23 PM (#4046327)
I rewatched about a dozen Jordan playoff games from before he won a title during the lockout, mainly concentrated on the 87-90 seasons. The way the announcers (who will have to serve as a proxy for Abbott because there was nothing like True Hoop at the time) made pretty similar comments about him as they do about Kobe now. They talk about how he is a great scorer, but that he has to ge this teammates going early if he wants the whole team to play cohesively, making unprovable claims about playing better defense if there are more passes on offense, etc. There was less personal vitriol, but the arguments were exactly the same.

Of course there is a huge difference. Jordan won six titles, and everyone lionized him (and especially his GAME) after the first one or two, while Kobe has five in the bag and has achieved no measure of good will. Maybe there were more fringy Jordan critics who didn't have a forum in 1993 and that accounts for the difference. I guess there is no way to know for sure.
   2815. Jimmy P Posted: January 26, 2012 at 03:24 PM (#4046329)
Abbott was apparently a very successful journalist prior to/concurrent with founding True Hoop and and then ESPN buying it/expanding it.

I guess ESPN told him to get on the Skip Bayless career path. Just be a douchy troll for the attention and the clicks
   2816. The Essex Snead Posted: January 26, 2012 at 03:32 PM (#4046343)
Just for giggles: Charlotte's leading scorer last night was Matt Carroll, with 17. (Kemba = 4-19, 0-4 from 3)
   2817. rr Posted: January 26, 2012 at 03:56 PM (#4046373)
Maybe there were more fringy Jordan critics who didn't have a forum in 1993 and that accounts for the difference.


Partly. A lot of 20 and 30 and 40-somethings who grew up hating Kobe and still hate him have pretty big megaphones now: Dwyer, Abbott, Moore, Simmons. But MJ playing in the digital era would be treated differently than he was.

I think, though, that it basically boils down to three things:

1. People think Kobe is a wanna-be. I have heard his career called the equivalent of a "Jordan Tribute Band" and last week, when Jordan said something nice about Kobe, Eric Freeman at Yahoo said, "Look, Kobester--he acknowledged you!" or some such. Simmons makes a big deal of this, saying in TBOB that Kobe has "no personality, so he adopted a creepy Jordan impersonation." And, of course, Kobe will never admit MJ was better, and I am sure he doesn't believe it.
2. Colorado, of course.
3. The Lakers. The whole thing might have played out differently had he started off on a lottery team. Instead, he was the first non-center to come straight out of high school and he joined Shaq on the Lakers.

So, what some people do is conflate all of these things (he plays selfishly because he wants to be like Jordan; I know that is true and he has selfish, ugly motivations because he is obviously a bad person since he was accused of rape, and that style of play hurts his team because he takes long jumpers instead of feeding his big men and that costs them games and championships, like in 2004 and 2003 and 2011...).

The embodiment of that conflation, more or less, is Henry Abbott.

The basic rule on Kobe is that many Lakers fans have a really hard time ranking him objectively, historically or otherwise. I think most of the fanbase still thinks he is better than James. Given James' lack of hardware, I can excuse this. But you still sometimes see tortured arguments about Kobe and Jordan, which are impossible to support.

The flip side is that reasonably intelligent Lakers fans (there are about 8 or 10, total) are much better about talking about Kobe in the context of the team and the actual games, because, unlike a guy like Simmons, we actually care about Pau's post game and how bad Fisher is and what Buss will do next. Haters tend to filter everything about the team through the Kobe lens, and ignore the rest of the picture. Kobe's heroshots are a frequent topic in LakerLand, but I hear a lot more of, "Are we ever going to get a decent PG?" and "Can Bynum stay on the floor this year?" and "WTF is going on with Brown's offense?" etc. than I do, "Kobe shot too much." And that is as it should be.
   2818. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 26, 2012 at 04:01 PM (#4046380)
Game 3, Sixers-Bulls 1991.

That was also a home team in a game 3 down 2-0. That's a classic "home team gets the calls" game if there ever was one.

It would be interesting to see how the Bulls free throw differentials from, say 1988-93 would compare to the second MJ run.

Agreed.
   2819. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 26, 2012 at 04:04 PM (#4046382)

That was also a home team in a game 3 down 2-0. That's a classic "home team gets the calls" game if there ever was one.


And now I look at the rest of that series, the Bulls shot less free throws in every game (though game 3 was by far the biggest differential). I guess Barkley got to the line quite a bit too, right?
   2820. rr Posted: January 26, 2012 at 04:10 PM (#4046386)
I watched almost the whole Jordan era, and he got a lot of calls. Got away with a lot of stuff in the post and some extra steps.

If you copy and paste that same sentence, and replace "Jordan" with "Bryant" it is also an entirely true statement.

This is my favorite picture of the two of them:

PIC

The key thing to look at is the fingers. That is one of the big reasons Jordan was better.
   2821. kpelton Posted: January 26, 2012 at 04:40 PM (#4046426)
Of course there is a huge difference. Jordan won six titles, and everyone lionized him (and especially his GAME) after the first one or two, while Kobe has five in the bag and has achieved no measure of good will.

Well, the first three didn't matter, because everybody knows that only the best player on the team really counts.
   2822. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: January 26, 2012 at 04:40 PM (#4046427)
PIC

Huh, I hadn't seen that picture before. Whether or not Kobe adopted MJ's persona or tries to emulate him is of no concern to me. But even you would admit he studied MJ's game (and that's a very good thing, BTW, not a criticism at all).
   2823. rr Posted: January 26, 2012 at 04:53 PM (#4046448)
Whether or not Kobe adopted MJ's persona or tries to emulate him is of no concern to me.


Never said it did. Never suggested it did. You are a Jordan Defender, on duty 24/7, but with only a couple of exceptions, you have not said Haterade stuff in the 2.7 year life span of this thread.

But even you would admit he studied MJ's game (and that's a very good thing, BTW, not a criticism at all).


Did I suggest at any point that he hadn't? Hell, Kobe himself has openly said that he watches film/tape of the greats and studies their moves, and I am the one that posted the pic.

As I have said before, if Kobe pulled the, "Aw-shucks, MJ is the man and I am just glad to be mentioned in the same paragraph with him but he will always be the man" thing, a lot of people would relax a little, and some of this crap would stop. But unless his personality changes drastically after he leaves the game, he never will.
   2824. Jimmy P Posted: January 26, 2012 at 04:57 PM (#4046451)
Well, the first three didn't matter, because everybody knows that only the best player on the team really counts.

What about the glue guys? Ideally, you want to be either the best, or like the 7th or 8th man down. They always get a bump for leadership and stabilizing forces.
   2825. rr Posted: January 26, 2012 at 05:02 PM (#4046459)
They always get a bump for leadership and stabilizing forces.


So that means CJ Watson will be a big hero this June in Chicago, then? Or will they go with Korver because of the Ashton Kutcher thing?
   2826. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 26, 2012 at 05:06 PM (#4046463)
Ideally, you want to be either the best, or like the 7th or 8th man down. They always get a bump for leadership and stabilizing forces.

Horry!

(Okay, he hit a bunch of big shots, too, but still.)
   2827. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: January 26, 2012 at 05:58 PM (#4046521)
But even you would admit he studied MJ's game (and that's a very good thing, BTW, not a criticism at all).
Anecdote: Tim Duncan calls Bryant the greatest "move stealer" in the league. During one All-Star weekend, Duncan and Bryant were shooting and Bryant asked Duncan about his footwork on the blocks, what he's looking for when he goes glass, etc... shop talk. So Duncan talks him through it, Bryant does it a few times for Duncan, they joke about it, blah, blah, blah. The next day's the game, and the first time Bryant has an opportunity, he does Duncan's move, and over the course of the game he goes back to it repeatedly, trying it from both sides of the key. According to Duncan, by the end of the game Bryant was doing a perfect imitation of his move.

Bryant's been pretty open about how, when he was in Italy, his family would VHS games and mail them to him. He'd watch the games over and over, and then try and emulate those moves himself. And anyone who watched early Kobe interviews knew he had Jordan's post-game interviews keyed exactly, right down to the same cliches.

As I have said before, if Kobe pulled the, "Aw-shucks, MJ is the man and I am just glad to be mentioned in the same paragraph with him but he will always be the man" thing, a lot of people would relax a little, and some of this crap would stop. But unless his personality changes drastically after he leaves the game, he never will.
Bryant ever gives an inch on anything. He never admits failure or defeat or that he was ever wrong; the closest he gets to anything like that is to say that something was a "learning experience" or some similar euphemism.

EDIT: It probably didn't help that he came into the league a 6'6" shooting guard. The other Air Apparents were shorter or taller or had different styles, but Bryant came into the league almost a physical clone of His Airness. Of course nobody would never admit they wanted such a title (or the expectations that came with that), but I'm pretty sure Bryant wanted both the title and the success immediately. That that didn't happen (the playoff failures in Utah) the subsequent thrashing he took by the national media probably taught him to hate Jordan's shadow in a way the rest of us can't understand. I mean, look at this conversation; even now, 15 years and five rings later, we're still having the same conversation.
   2828. rr Posted: January 26, 2012 at 06:06 PM (#4046528)
And anyone who watched early Kobe interviews knew he had Jordan's speaking patterns keyed exactly, right down to the same cliches.

Indeed. He seems to have ditched that; now he glares at reporters disdainfully, and mumbles and cusses a lot. It's an improvement.

Note to LAAFP:

While the growing chippiness between the Lakers and the Clippers is fun and was inevitable, a piece of me resents it, because it benefits the league/Stern, as I am sure he intended. Very nice angle for the LA and national media to work, and could conceivably fuel the big-market meme in the next CBA. People here are already hoping for a "Hallway Series" (assuming the Lakers make the playoffs--they could easily go 34-32 and finish 9th) but part of me doesn't want it, since it would draw a lot of eyeballs.

   2829. andrewberg Posted: January 26, 2012 at 06:13 PM (#4046532)
Indeed. He seems to have ditched that; now he glares at reporters disdainfully, and mumbles and cusses a lot. It's an improvement.


More than anything else, this has improved my opinion of him. The off court Jordan imitation drove me crazy. He can be a dick, he can steal moves, whatever, that's fine, but copying someone off the court is too weird for me.
   2830. JuanGone..except1game Posted: January 26, 2012 at 06:37 PM (#4046548)
More than anything else, this has improved my opinion of him. The off court Jordan imitation drove me crazy. He can be a dick, he can steal moves, whatever, that's fine, but copying someone off the court is too weird for me.


I always find this funny, as we have an even better example of this (cough...Dwight Howard/Superman...cough) and he never get's a small percentage of the grief that Kobe does around the league. I would agree with RR that its unfortunately a number of incidents that have coalesced into the Kobe-hating theme that you see from others around the league. He's not the warmest guy and as a fan who does love the guy (in a basketball way) but with some perspective, I do get it to a certain aspect. But Abbot is a troll who just drumming up page views and at least Simmons is doing it because he legitimitaly hates the Lakers.

   2831. rr Posted: January 26, 2012 at 07:16 PM (#4046572)
but copying someone off the court is too weird for me.


Kobe's a little creepy. As Andy Kamenetzky, who actually talks to Kobe a lot during the season, said, "Let's face it. Kobe is not a normal dude." But then, neither are a lot of his Haters, at least when they are talking about him. I have read some bizarre and revealing stuff over the years, including the Abbott quote on the previous page of this thread.
   2832. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: January 26, 2012 at 07:17 PM (#4046573)
I have no love for Bryant (he seems like such a snot), but what's the problem with stealing a guy's moves? What's this, a Seinfeld episode? Is he stopping short?

I don't get that at all.
   2833. rr Posted: January 26, 2012 at 07:24 PM (#4046582)
Edmundo,

I don't think anyone really bags on him for that. Like Moses said--it's a good thing. Bryant is a student of individual offense, and he studies the masters, and now is one himself. What bugs people on that aspect is that he won't admit that he has copied Jordan and that Jordan was better than he is. This is one of those things about him that "drives people crazy" when it comes to Bryant.
   2834. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 26, 2012 at 08:11 PM (#4046625)
Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Bucks just announced that hard-luck Andrew Bogut suffered fractured left ankle in Wednesday's tangle in Houston and is out indefinitely.


Uggh. I'm not a Bucks fan, but Bogut is a personal favorite.
   2835. andrewberg Posted: January 26, 2012 at 08:27 PM (#4046636)
Agreed. The weird part is that there was a report this morning where he was saying that he was glad it wasn't broken. I guess fracture/break isn't identical, but I thought the xrays would have picked that up last night. I was watching the game when that happened and it didn't seem that bad at the time until he didn't get up for another minute.
   2836. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: January 26, 2012 at 10:50 PM (#4046812)
While the growing chippiness between the Lakers and the Clippers is fun and was inevitable, a piece of me resents it, because it benefits the league/Stern, as I am sure he intended.
I don't know about the latter; having a powerful Lakers squad has always been great for the league in terms of ratings and road attendance. I'm with you, though, about the resenting it thing. I know it's repetitive and bitter-sounding, but I'm simply not over Stern's trade veto, and seeing as that veto (has I see it) has triggered what will end up being a crashing end to the Kobe Era, I'm not going to be over it for a really long time.
   2837. Jimmy P Posted: January 26, 2012 at 11:06 PM (#4046831)
The weird part is that there was a report this morning where he was saying that he was glad it wasn't broken. I guess fracture/break isn't identical, but I thought the xrays would have picked that up last night

Swelling makes imaging really difficult. That's why you normally see teams wait a day or two before the tests. I'm just not sure Bogut's ever going to be healthy again. He's just getting hurt every year.
   2838. Jimmy P Posted: January 26, 2012 at 11:10 PM (#4046834)
Being the huge hockey nerd that I am, I'm watching the NHL All-Star Draft. This is a concept that the NBA could really run with. It's fun seeing the teammates and country men get split up. It'd be interesting to try
   2839. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 26, 2012 at 11:17 PM (#4046845)
Being the huge hockey nerd that I am, I'm watching the NHL All-Star Draft. This is a concept that the NBA could really run with. It's fun seeing the teammates and country men get split up. It'd be interesting to try

Agreed, Jimmy. Simmons has actually been beating this drum for some time, even prior to the NHL introducing it.
   2840. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: January 26, 2012 at 11:22 PM (#4046852)
The Magic busy blowing a 27-point lead. Wow.
   2841. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 26, 2012 at 11:24 PM (#4046857)
Say what you will about the old Celtics, but they do have heart. Down 52-25 tonight to the Magic with 3 minutes left in the 1st half, they are now up 79-76 with eight minutes to play.

Also, soooo glad Glen Davis is no longer a Celtic.

Edit: Without Allen, Rondo, or Jermaine O'Neal (Greg Steimsma is the Celtics only C on the active roster tonight)
   2842. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 26, 2012 at 11:36 PM (#4046864)
Question for the resident Bulls fans: Why is Derrick "31% career" Rose taking five 3s per game this year?
   2843. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 26, 2012 at 11:52 PM (#4046878)
Celtics finish it. 66-31 over the last 27 minutes to win by 8. Wow.
   2844. Maxwn Posted: January 27, 2012 at 12:28 AM (#4046898)
Can't decide if these Memphis Tams throwbacks the Grizzlies are wearing are terrible or awesome. Maybe they're both.

They need this game tonight against the Clips. They had the 7 game win streak against some weaker teams but the schedule gets a lot tougher for the next month. They've looked pretty damn good the last couple of weeks, but the next couple will shed a lot more light on how good they can actually be against real contenders.
   2845. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 27, 2012 at 12:31 AM (#4046901)
Can't decide if these Memphis Tams throwbacks the Grizzlies are wearing are terrible or awesome. Maybe they're both.

I vote both.
   2846. rr Posted: January 27, 2012 at 02:10 AM (#4046959)
Too bad about Bogut.

Hat tip to Boston. Wonder if or how that will affect Howard.
   2847. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: January 27, 2012 at 10:22 AM (#4047058)
But even you would admit he studied MJ's game (and that's a very good thing, BTW, not a criticism at all).


Meanwhile, I modeled my high-school game after--who else--Anthony Mason.
   2848. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: January 27, 2012 at 10:39 AM (#4047078)
I pretty much only studied scrubs and role players. If my team needed me to be a big scorer, we were going to lose (indeed, with the best game I ever had, my squad lost by like 40).

Question: who is your least favorite player of all time? Not sure who my answer would be - among inner circle HOF types, it might be Jordan, for a host of reasons. (Don't get me wrong, he was insanely great. I'd probably actually like him more if he were playing today than in my youth - even if I'd be more aware that he's a colossal ####### from day one.) Him or Isiah, though that counts post-career credit - which seems unfair.
   2849. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 27, 2012 at 10:56 AM (#4047101)
In my CYO and HS days I modeled my game after John Starks...yeah. The last few years, playing pick-up in law school, I've found myself stealing a bunch of moves from Paul Pierce.

Least favorite player of all time for me is easily Jordan. I'm fairly certain that a part of the reason I came to love LeBron, after my initial skepticism and dislike, is that I would like nothing more than for someone to knock Jordan off his perch at #1 and I see LeBron as the best shot.
   2850. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 27, 2012 at 11:02 AM (#4047110)

Question: who is your least favorite player of all time?


I feel like we once did a "most hated" on this thread, but it was probably three years ago now. Anyway, it's a fun game, and I have 12 minutes to kill, so I'm going to come up with a starting five:

G Derek Fisher
G Kobe
F Chuck Person
F Laimbeer
C Joakim Noah

Kobe is number one, if I had to choose; Laimbeer a close second.

Comments: Fisher I just viscerally don't like - can't quite properly explain it. Kobe is Kobe. Laimbeer was Laimbeer. Never liked Chuck Person's act. I'm certain I would love Noah if he were a Celtic - but he's not.
   2851. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 27, 2012 at 11:19 AM (#4047140)
Fisher I just viscerally don't like - can't quite properly explain it.

Penchant for dirty plays, no easily discernible skills, allowed to play long past point of utility with little criticism from media due to ring count and "clutch."
   2852. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 27, 2012 at 11:26 AM (#4047148)
Penchant for dirty plays, no easily discernible skills, allowed to play long past point of utility with little criticism from media due to ring count and "clutch."

I'm almost embarrassed at how nicely you spelled that out for me.
   2853. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: January 27, 2012 at 11:28 AM (#4047153)
Least favorite? Probably Vince Carter (I dislike lots of other UNC guys, but especially Vince)

   2854. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 27, 2012 at 11:31 AM (#4047158)
Vince is a good choice - he'd be my third guard.
   2855. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 27, 2012 at 12:01 PM (#4047206)
Question: who is your least favorite player of all time?


Easily Kobe. I think he's a rapist, he's a great player on the Lakers, and though this is not his fault, it annoys me that a decent amount of people think he's comparable to MJ and better than James. People like Abbot and Simmons are still ridiculous with their criticism of his game, however.

Oddly, I never hated MJ. I know he's an #######, he got more star calls than anyone else IMO, and he destroyed the Jazz' best chances at winning it all, but I just can't hate the greatest ever.

EDIT: All hate team:
PG: Baron Davis? Don't really hate many PG, but I despised the Warriors playoff team. I wouldn't be surprised if they're still whining.
SG: Kobe
SF: Melo
PF: Rodman
C: Ostertag
   2856. Bitter Mouse Posted: January 27, 2012 at 12:26 PM (#4047247)
Most disliked? The one I have not seen yet who really annoyed me for a variety of reasons is Patrick Ewing. Never did like that dude and loved the series where Hakeem completely schooled him.

MN addition is has to be Anthony Peeler. Makes me mad just thinking about him.

Quentin Richardson is also a tool (I think that is the moron that knuckled his head as he ran down the court after having done something notable - for some reason I am blanking so I could be wrong).

Kobe and Fischer are both hateable, of course.
   2857. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 27, 2012 at 12:37 PM (#4047264)
Most disliked? The one I have not seen yet who really annoyed me for a variety of reasons is Patrick Ewing. Never did like that dude and loved the series where Hakeem completely schooled him.

*adds Bitter Mouse to ignore list*
   2858. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: January 27, 2012 at 12:48 PM (#4047282)
In my CYO and HS days I modeled my game after John Starks...yeah. The last few years, playing pick-up in law school, I've found myself stealing a bunch of moves from Paul Pierce.



Jungle Jim Luscotoff for me. I was a (young) man who knew his limitations.

Ewing is a guy who won me over with his play. As a generalist Big Five fan, I hated Georgetown and by extension, Ewing. Then Ewing went to NY, so the hate continued. But the way he played took me from grudging respect to like over the course of his career.
   2859. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 27, 2012 at 12:55 PM (#4047293)
Do any of you guys love a player who is widely reviled by most fans? I am a big Danny Ainge fan - still have his Suns #22 jersey I bought in 1993. I know there's at least a few of the Laker fans here who can't stand him, if not more of you. My favorites team would look something like Nash, Ainge, Bird, Barkley, Shaq or maybe McHale* - though I'm probably forgetting a few guys. It's defintiely easier for me to think of players I love/loved watching than it is guys I don't like.

* You may hate him, but in addition to the smorgasbord of low post moves and smothering defense, that dude is/was FUNNY. Check out Unfinished Business, or just this excerpt that was printed in SI.
   2860. rr Posted: January 27, 2012 at 12:57 PM (#4047297)
with little criticism from media


Perhaps, but he takes a huge amount of crap, daily, from the Laker fanbase. I have never done this--Fisher prepares hard and plays hard, and competes. The blame lies with the FO (although playing him on the 2009-10 teams was defensible. Playing him now isn't).

Fischer
\

Yeah, but his matches back in the 70s with the Russian guy were awesome.

I have never been much of a sporsthate guy,(a little bit with the 80s Cerics, but actually liked Bird, Johnson, and Parish) but I can see why people get hard-ons from it. What I find annoying is when people try to tell me what wonderful guys their favorite players are and as I have discussed ad nauseum, when they mix it with "analysis." Moses and I discussed the issue once. We both sort of said something to the effect that we can assume that a lot of these guys are "douches", a lot of them aren't, mosty of them are some of both, like regualr people, and that we really don't know, and will never know, in most cases, which is which.
   2861. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 27, 2012 at 01:02 PM (#4047306)
I have never been much of a sporsthate guy

I tried to think of a full lineup, but I couldn't really think of any 4s/5s I really hated. Not sure why. Also, half the guys I could think of were Isiah-era Knicks.

Do any of you guys love a player who is widely reviled by most fans?

Does LeBron count?
   2862. rr Posted: January 27, 2012 at 01:03 PM (#4047309)
McHale* -


Lakers fans hate McHale because of the clothesline and the Garnett trade--both legit reasons as bonehead sportshate goes. He is, however, a funny and intelligent man, was a great player, and seems to be a pretty good coach.

Lakers fans hated Ainge because of the whiny thing with his face, his style of play, and because while he was pretty good, he was like Byron Scott, a right place/right time guy in terms of being on that team.
   2863. The Essex Snead Posted: January 27, 2012 at 01:07 PM (#4047317)
My current sh!t list:

G: Fisher
G: Ridnour
F: Blatche
F: Jeffries
F: McRoberts
COACH(ES): Mark Jackson / VDN

All-time, I can't say for sure, though Fisher & Bruce Bowen are definitely inner circle.
   2864. Jimmy P Posted: January 27, 2012 at 01:10 PM (#4047321)
Question: who is your least favorite player of all time?

G Derek Fisher
G John Starks
F Bruce Bowen
F Karl Malone
C Kendrick Perkins
   2865. rr Posted: January 27, 2012 at 01:10 PM (#4047325)
Not sure why.


It comes from playoff losses, mostly. When you lose a playoff series to a team more than once, you start to hate them.

So, as a Knicks guy, it makes sense you would hate Jordan.

Fans in Western Conference towns have almost all seen their team lose at least one big playoff series to the Shaq/Kobe/Pau/Phil Lakers: Portland, Utah, Minnesota, Denver, Phoenix, Houston, Sacramento, San Antonio--everybody except Dallas. That is one thing that drives the continued haterade guzzling today. San Antonio fans are mellower about it, since they have a bunch of banners of their own.

But while most people see the Spurs as "classy", etc. I have seen Phoenix fans cuss a blue streak about the Spurs.
   2866. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 27, 2012 at 01:15 PM (#4047333)
rr/[2862] - agree with everything you said.
   2867. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: January 27, 2012 at 01:22 PM (#4047343)
Question for the resident Bulls fans: Why is Derrick "31% career" Rose taking five 3s per game this year?

If I were robin, I'd jump on your phrasing here. It's something I've criticized him for the last season plus, since he gained this confidence in the shot. This was more true last year than this, but that number was slightly (and only slightly) hurt by how many shot clock bail out shots and end of quarter shots he took (one of the Bulls blogs actually tracked his end of quarter heaves and he was like 1 for 30 at one point, IIRC). The shot clock bail outs were a problem in the offense. He also likes to jack them up when the Bulls are trailing. My biased and flawed memory tells me that he's actually a decent 3pt shooter when the shots are in rythym - spotting up, or stepping into it on a fast break, etc - and that he's terrible when he's not - step backs or when he dribbles into that shot either on his own or off a screen. I don't think that's different than a lot of guys, but he's still in need of improvement on his shot selection. I feel like he settles or takes a lot of those shots for a couple of reasons - 1. It's a lot of work for him to drive and create those shots inside and he absorbs a ton of contact and abuse inside (and a lot still isn't called because he has such good body control), perhaps the ankle issue last year and toe issue this year make it an easier shot for him to take at times* 2. It makes his defender stay closer to him and not play off like they do Rondo; I do think opponents respect his 3pt shot more than they should, and I do feel like he has better driving lanes now that he shoots it more than when he didn't.

I'm certain I would love Noah if he were a Celtic - but he's not.

I hated Noah in college, I hated him his first couple years in Chicago, and I'm growing to hate him again now. He's making a lot less of an impact this year than last, and it's harder for me to stomach his theatrics when that's all he's doing. I love the occasional fast breaks he leads (he had one the other night against Indy), but those have diminished lately.

---

I loved those Clippers unis last night, but those Grizz ones are the 2nd worst worn recently (I hate the NOH Mardi Gras unis just a little bit more).

---

Most hated - Reggie Miller, Bill Laimbeer, John Starks, Paul Pierce and recent KG.

*And Thibs obviously has no problem with his PGs just chucking whenever they want, as evidenced by every CJ Watson appearance and the 28 FGA game JLIII had this year.
   2868. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: January 27, 2012 at 01:24 PM (#4047344)
In my CYO and HS days I modeled my game after John Starks...yeah. The last few years, playing pick-up in law school, I've found myself stealing a bunch of moves from Paul Pierce.

Apparently I need to add you to my hated list.
   2869. rr Posted: January 27, 2012 at 01:24 PM (#4047345)
G: Ridnour


This is funny. I can see the other guys, and I can even sort of see Jared Jeffries. Did you go to Oregon State or something?
   2870. rr Posted: January 27, 2012 at 01:25 PM (#4047347)
I modeled my game after John Starks...


This made me chuckle as well.
   2871. rr Posted: January 27, 2012 at 01:27 PM (#4047350)
If I were robin, I'd jump on your phrasing here.


Email Abbott and tell him that although you are a Bulls fan he needs to shut up if you want to help me out with my insanity a little. I'm crazy--not mean. Abbott has stated publicly three or four times that it is only deranged Kobe FanBoys who are tired of this, so he is going to keep it up.

I mostly agree with what you said about Rose. As with Kobe, Rose sometimes winds up creating late in the shot clock. There are a few Lakers possessions every game in which nothing really happens, and whoever has the ball (usually Fisher at the arc or Pau at the elbow) sort of hands the ball to Kobe with six or seven seconds left on the shot clock and Kobe dribbles a couple of times and jacks up a long one.

There are also of course a few possessions every game on which he jacks up a long one with 15-20 seconds on the shot clock just for the hell of it. If someone were willing to take the time to study this for a few games, that might actually shed some light on this endless debate.

Zach Lowe broke down a bunch of possessions in detail--but he only did it for one game, the first Clippers game, and didn't do anything quantitative with the video.

I noted that the Lakers ORTG went from 109 to 114 between the game Thorpe watched and the Clippers game on Wednesday. However, it is also worth noting that 109 is a really good game by current Lakers' standards--something Thorpe failed to discuss.
   2872. The Essex Snead Posted: January 27, 2012 at 01:32 PM (#4047356)
[2869] It's just a semi-irrational thing; seems like every time I watch Ridnour play, he's throwing the ball away or taking a crappy 3 early in the shot clock or letting his defender sashay on by or doing something else kinda sorta obnoxious (to me).
   2873. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: January 27, 2012 at 01:39 PM (#4047364)
Say it with me, slowly: Jordan is the best ever. Then, deep breaths.

See, that's my point. I'm not saying or implying that you're saying anything different. I didn't respond to 2823 because you totally missed my point and read something into what I was saying that I didn't. I said it many of these threads ago - I don't dislike Kobe*. At all. Never have, never will. I dislike some of the discussions about Kobe (be it the overhating or the overloving), but not him.

*The player. As you mentioned, I try to leave the person out of these discussions as much as possible, unless it's part of the specific analysis or discussion point (and even then, it's secondary). With Kobe, that gets messy, as you've pointed out numerous times.

---And now that I read this, it also comes across differently than I intend. This is more a shrugedd shoulder, meh, whatever reaction and not one where I'm actually upset or care. (I am really distracted here, and struggling to convey my point, so I'll just stop now.)
   2874. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: January 27, 2012 at 01:42 PM (#4047369)
mySynergySports: To @ZachLowe_SI 's point, Kobe uses 9.9 Isos/G. That's more than CLE, MIN, DAL, PHO, NOH, UTA, SAS, CHI, BOS, and ORL.

mySynergySports: Leaders in Isos/G: Kobe 9.9, Melo 8.8, LeBron 7.5, Monta 6.5, KD35 6.3, Deron Williams 5.9, Amar'e 5.4, Tyreke 5.4, CP3 5.1

mySynergySports: Highest Isos/G in last 7 years: Kobe 2006: 12.4, Kobe 2005: 11.8, Melo 2010: 10.4, Iverson 2006: 10.3, Kobe 2012: 9.9


I just saw this twitter account. I don't have a synergy account, so this is a definite must follow for me now.

Oddly enough, this was not meant as a Kobe post even though that's the theme of those tweets.
   2875. rr Posted: January 27, 2012 at 01:54 PM (#4047390)
Say it with me, slowly: Jordan is the best ever. Then, deep breaths.


I took that out, seeing it as needlessly snarky, and changed the post, as you see above. My point is this: everybody here, you included, sticks up pretty hard for their guys. And as even berg suggests, here we are 16 years, 28,000 points, and five rings in, with the Lakers having obvious and serious personnel problems that have nothing to do with Kobe (unless, as some people are starting to do, you want to blame him for signing the massive contract extension
--but again, to me, that is on ownership) and yet the stat-oriented media guys continue to talk/Tweet about his shots, day after day.

As far as Lowe's Tweet, those numbers are in part the result of the Lakers' roster construction, as Lowe correctly noted in his video breakdown. Lowe is a good analyst, and, like Pelton (and mostly) Hollinger, usually very even-handed.
   2876. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: January 27, 2012 at 01:56 PM (#4047393)
Most hated:

PG: Isiah Thomas, Steve Francis
SG: Michael Jordan, Isaiah Rider
SF: Paul Pierce, Darius Miles, Bruce Bowen, Scottie Pippen
PF: Dennis Rodman, Kevin Garnett
C: Bill Laimbeer, Greg Ostertag, Patrick Ewing, Benoit Benjamin
   2877. andrewberg Posted: January 27, 2012 at 02:09 PM (#4047417)
Agree with Carter and Ewing. I have tried to revise my childhood dislike of Ewing as a Hoya but can't quite get there. I make up for it with extra love for AI, Mourning, and the Mutombo.

Don't like Kobe, Marbury, Rick Fox (I shudder to think of him), Wade, Starks, Doug Christie, Kerry Kittles, Coleman.

Honestly, there are a lot of guys who I dislike until the play the Lakers in the playoffs, then I am forced to cheer for them and the dislike never returns (Kidd, Duncan, Jameer Nelson, Amare).

But the one player for whom I reserve the most enduring hatred is definitely Wally Szczerbiak.
   2878. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: January 27, 2012 at 02:10 PM (#4047419)
I liked Laimbeer and Bowen. Everyone can block me now.
   2879. rr Posted: January 27, 2012 at 02:11 PM (#4047421)
I like that you have a full 14-man Hate Roster. Nice touch. Also, that team would unquestionably roll to a title.
   2880. JJ1986 Posted: January 27, 2012 at 02:12 PM (#4047423)
I liked Laimbeer and Bowen. Everyone can block me now.


Bowen's one of my favorite players.
   2881. rr Posted: January 27, 2012 at 02:13 PM (#4047426)
I think that may be the first time I have heard a non-Pistons fan say he actually likes Laimbeer. Never disliked Bowen. He was a little dirty, but so are a lot of guys.
   2882. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 27, 2012 at 02:13 PM (#4047427)
I liked Laimbeer and Bowen

They always show it on NBA blooper reel style shows and everyone laughs, but...was there ever an explanation as to why he kicked whoever that was in the face (for some reason I'm thinking it was Sczerbiak, so maybe andrewberg loved it)? I can't fathom what could have lead him to try that and I think it's actually one of the more dick things I've witnessed in pro sports. Unless the explanation is really good.

EDIT: It's really bothering me that I can't think of any PFs/C to hate. I really don't like post-Celtics KG, but he had built up so much goodwill that I give him a pass. As a kid I hated Shaq because 1.) the Magic terrified me in a way no other team did and 2.) I felt like he was only good because he was big, but once I got older I grew to appreciate his game.
   2883. andrewberg Posted: January 27, 2012 at 02:17 PM (#4047435)
This makes me sooooo happy.
   2884. rr Posted: January 27, 2012 at 02:18 PM (#4047438)
Never saw a clip of Bowen kicking someone in the face.

Edit: And there it is.

   2885. Jimmy P Posted: January 27, 2012 at 02:19 PM (#4047440)
was there ever an explanation as to why he kicked whoever that was in the face

Yeah, he's a cheap shot artist and a dirty player.
   2886. rr Posted: January 27, 2012 at 02:20 PM (#4047443)
PFs

Rodman?

I think you should hate Scalabrine.
   2887. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: January 27, 2012 at 02:23 PM (#4047447)
All-vomit team

PG: Mike Bibby
SG: Mike Bibby wearing a Rondo jersey
SF: Matt Barnes
PF: Scottie Pippen (Barnes' suckage earns him the "start" at the 3)
C : Mike Bibby
   2888. Jimmy P Posted: January 27, 2012 at 02:25 PM (#4047451)
Never saw a clip of Bowen kicking someone in the face.

Behold!
   2889. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 27, 2012 at 02:32 PM (#4047468)
Rodman?

Always loved Rodman. Defense and rebounds make me weak in the knees.

I think you should hate Scalabrine.

Provides too much comedy, both intentional and unintentional. Instead of Semi-Pro, Ferrell should have done a Scalabrine bio. Discussing Scalabrine has reminded me he plays on the same team as Carlos Boozer though and I do kind of hate that guy.
   2890. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 27, 2012 at 02:39 PM (#4047476)
I liked Laimbeer and Bowen.

Edmundo, can you please explain what you liked about Laimbeer?
   2891. Bitter Mouse Posted: January 27, 2012 at 02:57 PM (#4047499)
But the one player for whom I reserve the most enduring hatred is definitely Wally Szczerbiak.


Can't hate him, the Eldest Son of Mouse loved "Wally" so I must like him. Besides Peeler was much more annoying. Al Jefferson is another I was glad to see the back of.
   2892. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 27, 2012 at 03:06 PM (#4047512)
I really can't stand Chauncey Billups. It's partly the Mr Big Shot thing, but there's also just something about him that drives me crazy.
   2893. Maxwn Posted: January 27, 2012 at 03:48 PM (#4047558)
My most hated team:

PG: Russell Westbrook
SG: James Harden
SF: Kevin Durant
PF: Serge Ib...no, Nick Collison
C: Kendrick Perkins

Sixth Man, Token non-Thunder: Big Baby Davis

Grew up in rural Middle Tennessee and didn't have a team, so didn't really care about the NBA enough to develop any historical hatreds. So I'll just stick to what I know.
   2894. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: January 27, 2012 at 03:51 PM (#4047560)
I liked Laimbeer because he maximized his talents and he po'ed the obnoxious Boston announcer. I admit the second part is a bit d***ish on my part.

I didn't remember Bowen kicking someone in the face. I always liked his defensive intensity.
   2895. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: January 27, 2012 at 04:28 PM (#4047588)
deepsixer3: The Sixers have signed Francisco Elson


here's hoping his contract is not guaranteed and that he'll be cut before it is.
   2896. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: January 27, 2012 at 04:36 PM (#4047597)
Do any of you guys love a player who is widely reviled by most fans?


Does Larry Johnson count?
   2897. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: January 27, 2012 at 04:50 PM (#4047615)
Hey! Elson's a guy I really don't like.

Most of my least favorite players are scrubs blocking (in my mind) scrubs I like more. [I think I might be a hipster basketball fan.] A lot of them seem to be decent dudes, too.

Active guys I don't like, in no particular order: Willie Green (among other high usage, low efficiency scorers), Jason Collins (among other big dudes who don't rebound, score, or block shots), A.J. and Ronnie Price, Yi Jianlian, Travis Outlaw, Sean Marks, Desagana Diop, Bassy Telfair
Active guys I don't like who isn't terrible, but is also a Sixer center: Hawes.

Retired guy who was a solid player, but: Cliff Robinson.

Players I've liked, but kind of wished I didn't: Ruben Patterson, Danny Fortson, J.R. Smith

I didn't like Bowen either - though I respect the heck out of what he may of himself. Also didn't like Coleman, but there's less respect there.

***

I'd look to John Starks for bagging techniques, maybe.
(I have a lot of respect for what he made of his career too.)
   2898. Jimmy P Posted: January 27, 2012 at 04:58 PM (#4047620)
Do any of you guys love a player who is widely reviled by most fans?

Noah
   2899. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 27, 2012 at 05:00 PM (#4047625)
I admit the second part is a bit d***ish on my part.

Eh, that's no better or worse reason to sportshate (to borrow from rr) a guy than most others.
   2900. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: January 27, 2012 at 05:50 PM (#4047691)
Eh, that's no better or worse reason to sportshate (to borrow from rr) a guy than most others.


rr borrowed it from Simmons so it's fair game. ;)

My all-sports-hatred team:

PG: John Stockton
SG: Tyreke Evans
SF: Ricky Davis
PF: Andray Blatche
C: DeSagana Diop (I can't explain this)
6th man: Michael Beasley

Others: Lance Stephenson (would be starting if he were more relevant basketball-wise), Kurt Rambis, DeMarcus Cousins, Bird (opposite of Stephenson, only somewhat dislike him but he gets on the list due to basketball relevance), Antawn Jamison, Vince Carter
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