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Friday, December 02, 2011

NBA THREAD DECEMBER: POST-LOCKOUT

With the lockout over, I estimate that there may be more than 10-12 Primates who want to talk about the NBA, and with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: fractional reserve banking, and Tim Tebow.

robinred Posted: December 02, 2011 at 12:26 AM | 3254 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: general

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   2901. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 27, 2012 at 05:58 PM (#4047699)
I can't believe I forgot this, but the player I hate most all-time: Kevin McHale. My hate for him is perfectly ration and wide-ranging and forever undying. I wished him ill in basketball, I wished him ill as a GM, I wish him ill as a coach. I wish him ill in his finances and his personal health. I wish his family ill, his friends ill, his dog ill, his neighbors ill. I want him to die a horrible, painful, humiliating death, and I want that death to be catastrophic and engulf all those who rooted for him in any way, ever.

So, yeah. I don't like Kevin McHale.
   2902. andrewberg Posted: January 27, 2012 at 06:07 PM (#4047710)
SF: Ricky Davis


I don't like Ricky much, but the self-rebound thing was hilarious and brilliant in my book.
   2903. steagles Posted: January 27, 2012 at 06:22 PM (#4047733)
Active guys I don't like who isn't terrible, but is also a Sixer center: Hawes.
i actually really didn't like him either--not in college, or at the draft, or when he was a king, or when he was traded to the sixers--but he's been a really nifty player to start this season.
   2904. robinred Posted: January 27, 2012 at 06:33 PM (#4047745)
All-SportsHate Media Guys Team:

WRITERS:

Henry Abbott
Matt Moore
Dan Shaughnessy
Bill Plaschke
Jeff Pearlman

SITERUNNER/MANAGER:

Bill Simmons

COMMENTATORS:

Skip Bayless, Stephen A. Smith

   2905. andrewberg Posted: January 27, 2012 at 06:48 PM (#4047767)
Speaking of sports writing, there have been 2 great long form boxing essays on Grantland this week. One on 19th century fighter Tom Molineaux and one on Bernard Hopkins. Time consuming, though excellent.
   2906. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 27, 2012 at 07:13 PM (#4047793)
Speaking of sports writing, there have been 2 great long form boxing essays on Grantland this week. One on 19th century fighter Tom Molineaux and one on Bernard Hopkins. Time consuming, though excellent.


Seconded. The Molineaux one was by Brian Phillips, who is one of my favorite internet sportswriters period, and the Hopkins one was truly enlightening. Grantland is very mixed in quality (surprise!) but when it's good, it's quite good.
   2907. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 27, 2012 at 07:17 PM (#4047795)
KCJHoop: Rip aggravated groin, likely late scratch vs. Bucks. Rookie Jimmy Butler poised to make first NBA start. #Bulls


Taj Gibson is supposed to be back from his sprained ankle tonight, and Deng is playing Sunday, but it appears the Bulls are never going to be able to start their intended 5*. I wonder how many different starting lineups the Bulls have used so far this year. By my count, 10 different players have started, and for a team that doesn't have any starting position controversies. Oddly enough, I'll again mention Boozer is the only one who has started every game, so the only players on the roster not to start yet are Taj Gibson (who will get a start before the year is out, because there's no f'in way Boozer starts all 66), Kyle Korver (not sure why he's isn't starting tonight), Brian Scalabrine (I didn't mention him before, but I hate him more than anyone else in the NBA right now), and scrap heap pickup Mike James.

*I looked it up - 5 times. The first 4 games of the year, and the game in Detroit when Rip still wasn't 100% and re-injured his groin.
   2908. smileyy Posted: January 27, 2012 at 07:19 PM (#4047797)
I don't think I've been a big enough fan of a team to either hate a player who disappointed, or hate a key opponent. I've also never lived in a big NBA city when the team was successful (I lived in Chicago in the Jordan/Rose interregenum).

But I remember just loathing the Jazz style of play when the Bulls played them. I intensely disliked Billy Owens for flopping after the trade for him broke up Run TMC in Golden State. I guess I kind of hate Starbury for submarining Kevin Garnett's career. And I resent all the bad decisions made trying to put a winning team around LeBron in Cleveland, that ultimately drove him out of Cleveland.
   2909. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: January 27, 2012 at 10:19 PM (#4047897)
I'm starting to really sportshate Arron Afflalo. Or however the hell you spell his name. It's clear he thinks he's a star and he's. Just. Not.
   2910. steagles Posted: January 27, 2012 at 10:31 PM (#4047912)
i know this is not exactly breaking new ground, but winning by 20 is definitely preferable to losing in overtime.


gotta beat detroit tomorrow, too.
   2911. robinred Posted: January 27, 2012 at 11:36 PM (#4047939)
You spelled his name right. Not watching the Knicks? I can relate.

NO beat ORL 93-67 to raise their record to 4-15. Kaman is being "openly shopped" and didn't even dress.
   2912. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: January 27, 2012 at 11:41 PM (#4047943)
You spelled his name right. Not watching the Knicks? I can relate.

Knicks on the TV and Nuggets on the laptop.

What the hell is up with ORL?
   2913. robinred Posted: January 27, 2012 at 11:53 PM (#4047954)
What the hell is up with ORL?


They have had trouble with consistency since Turkoglu hurt his back; he was actually playing well and is key to the O. That doesn't excuse not breaking 70 against a 3-15 team, though.

Could be they are a bit hungover from the endless Howard uncertainty. And, they just have a lot of mediocre players.
   2914. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 28, 2012 at 12:22 AM (#4047973)
Local radio scuttlebutt: The debacles against the Boston non-Big-Three have started up talk again in Orlando about perhaps things might be better if they did get rid of Howard and started over, with an eye towards Bynum and Los Angeles. Is this team a contender? they're asking rhetorically, and if it's not and there's no reason for Howard to stay there, then Orlando's going to lose an All-World center for nothing a second time. I can only imagine how that talk is going to heat up after a 67-point effort.
   2915. robinred Posted: January 28, 2012 at 02:35 AM (#4048031)
ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer
LeBron left wearing glasses with no lenses. James: "No lenses, baby. That's what swag is."
about an hour ago


I teach at a college and I saw a kid last week who was doing this.
   2916. robinred Posted: January 28, 2012 at 02:42 AM (#4048035)
No one seems to talk about them that much in the media (some, yes) but Oklahoma City is now 16-3. Of Durant, Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka, Durant is the oldest. He does not turn 24 until September.
   2917. robinred Posted: January 28, 2012 at 02:46 AM (#4048038)
On Howard: PHX was embarrassed tonight in Portland, 109-71. I think ORL should consider going after Nash or Tyreke Evans. The problem is that getting one of those guys would not be enough to deal with MIA and CHI--sort of like Cleveland's acquisition of Jamison. Orlando is in a pretty difficult spot.
   2918. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: January 28, 2012 at 07:28 AM (#4048066)
I teach at a college and I saw a kid last week who was doing this.

I see it all the time. As someone who was deeply saddened when he first found out he had to get glasses the coolification of eyewear troubles me greatly.

No one seems to talk about them that much in the media (some, yes) but Oklahoma City is now 16-3. Of Durant, Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka, Durant is the oldest. He does not turn 24 until September.

Their fault for not letting the media run with the Stringer-Avon story.
   2919. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 28, 2012 at 11:22 AM (#4048107)
Bulls/Bucks was a pretty fun game last night. If felt like a good pace (now that I look, it was a faster pace than the Bulls usually play at). And it was a good offensive game for both teams. Early on, Jennings was having one of those nights - every sort of bullshit shot he was throwing up was going in - step back 3's, step back 2's with his foot on the 3 pt line, if it was an outside shot, he took and made it. He had 16 in the first. That seemed to bug Rose a little, because last night was the most aggressive he's been all season. Jennings had no chance keeping him from blowing past him, and the help defense was slow all night for Milwaukee. Most of Rose's attempts were right at the basket - definitely a likely occurrence if Drew Gooden is your starting center. Because Rose got into the lane at will, he only attemted 2 3's, and both were of the end of shot clock variety. SJax didn't have a good game, and he really was a ballstopper. Jon Lauer was outstanding, nailing outside shots and working inside. He really was a great pick by them.

Korver ended up starting, not Butler, so that doesn't change my earlier post. The Bulls did release Mike James today, and there's rumors they're about to add another big (I've seen Pryzbilla and Powe mentioned). Of course, they can't get anywhere near the tax line, so no need to actually fill the roster.
   2920. steagles Posted: January 28, 2012 at 12:49 PM (#4048135)
Cole Aldrich: I hate when I'm running and I get a text then I run into a tree. #templerunproblems 2 days ago
   2921. andrewberg Posted: January 28, 2012 at 01:06 PM (#4048141)
I'm going to guess that losing one of the league's better help defenders to a broken ankle contributed to milwaukee's slow rotations. I feel bad for them. Also for robin, who now has to watch Drew Gooden on his NBA package.

MN up to 9-10 by getting another win over sa. The spurs took the air out of the ball but Ricky played great in the half court, scoring 18 on 7-12 and constantly finding pek hanging out in front of the rim. Pek also did a surprisingly good job on Duncan (2-12). Beasley came back and mostly sucked, but they kept him from jacking up shots in crunch time. Martell Webster also played and looked solid. He's a pro, and he is competing with really raw sgs for minutes.
   2922. robinred Posted: January 28, 2012 at 02:35 PM (#4048162)
With Bogut out, I think the Lakers will need the game tonight to get a split. As noted, I am pretty much rooting for Minny to win as many as they can to make the NO pick lower.

Given that NO has sent Kaman home and Gordon is out for awhile, they are more or less tanking, and looking to create an Anthony Davis/second lotto guy/Gordon reset. Don't blame them at all for that--but that certainly makes losing 93-67 to them disturbing from Orlando's POV, added to the losses to Boston.

And no, I am not saying this means the Lakers will get Howard--just saying I think it does shift the frame a little for Orlando. As Matt H and SVG himself noted, ORL can't hang with CHI, and OKC schooled them too.

ADD: Rumors are that Steve Blake is not healing well, and that the Lakers have been working out Agent Zero.
   2923. steagles Posted: January 28, 2012 at 02:39 PM (#4048164)
Nick Friedell: Bulls blog: Chicago Bulls waive Mike James http://es.pn/xYajcV about 6 minutes ago
Dave McMenamin: New story: Lakers rookie Andrew Goudelock was hospitalized for dehydration; cleared to play vs MIL http://es.pn/z7cl5F about 13 minutes ago

Chris Sheridan: Chris Kaman is going to be traded by the #Hornets. Here are three trade ideas that make some sense: http://bit.ly/z2UJoI about 30 minutes ago
   2924. steagles Posted: January 28, 2012 at 06:18 PM (#4048323)
Tom Moore: ESPN announces it will now televise #Mavericks at #Sixers game Feb. 17. about 7 hours ago

Tom Moore: #ESPN spokeman on adding #Sixers game vs. Mavs: "The primary reason is due to the Sixers success. They have 'played their way' on schedule." about 7 hours ago
   2925. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 28, 2012 at 06:43 PM (#4048340)
Given that NO has sent Kaman home and Gordon is out for awhile, they are more or less tanking, and looking to create an Anthony Davis/second lotto guy/Gordon reset.
No shock here. Kaman was gone the moment he got traded to NO, and predictably there's no chance Gordon's going to want to stick around for this mess. David Stern's getting exactly what he wants here when he vetoed the first Paul trade, the basketball reason being to be bad at basketball. An imploded Hornets organization selling at a bargain basement price is what he wanted, and now he's getting it.

#foreverbitter
   2926. steagles Posted: January 28, 2012 at 07:13 PM (#4048365)
David Locke: Last year the worst three point shooting team was Toronto at 31.6% this year 11 teams are shooting worse than 31.6% about 27 minutes ago

David Locke: Enes Kanter has the 6th best rebounding rate (% of available rebs) and the 4th best offensive rebounding rate in the NBA about 55 minutes ago

Alex Kennedy: Stephen Jackson will serve his suspension tonight when the Milwaukee Bucks host the Los Angeles Lakers. about 1 hour ago
   2927. robinred Posted: January 28, 2012 at 08:00 PM (#4048392)
Cap Jack was suspended for "Verbal abuse of officials."
   2928. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: January 28, 2012 at 08:12 PM (#4048400)
I refuse to click on Chris Sheridan's link but was curious whether anyone here had ideas as to what might be good landing spots for Kaman.
   2929. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 28, 2012 at 08:44 PM (#4048414)
The league is rumored to be asking for a package that includes both a young player and an unprotected first round pick for Kaman. Seems like a lot.
   2930. tshipman Posted: January 28, 2012 at 08:55 PM (#4048420)
I refuse to click on Chris Sheridan's link but was curious whether anyone here had ideas as to what might be good landing spots for Kaman.


Sacramento, Houston, The Celtics (?) ... Denver maybe?. Denver could upgrade in size with Nene and Kaman. Minnesota? He's better than Darko and Kaman has always seemed to me like a guy who'd do well with Adelman.

Sacramento doesn't make sense due to cap reasons--NO would have to take back Salmons.

Houston works with Kaman for Scola + filler.

Boston works with O'Neal, Wilcox and filler.

Denver works with Andre Miller and Mozgov. I *think* that makes Denver better, but maybe I'm wrong? Denver seems to make sense to me. Probably will be Houston, though.

Minnesota works with Beasley and Ridnour. I think that's a good deal for NO? Maybe not?
   2931. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: January 28, 2012 at 10:53 PM (#4048514)
Apparently the Knicks' pick for this year is Top 5 protected. If that's the case. PLEASE TANK (not that that would be THAT different from what we're currently doing)
   2932. steagles Posted: January 28, 2012 at 10:54 PM (#4048515)
John Schuhmann: 2 triple-doubles already tonight: Iguodala & Kemba Walker. 1 minute ago


just one comment on tonight's game from iguodala. i'm watching the post game, and the talking heads are saying that he needs to be more assertive in finding his own shot, and i just think that's about the worst thing he could do right now. i think this team is just much, much better when his primary focus is in finding other players their shots. when he's setting up elton brand or jodie meeks off the dribble, this offense is just beautiful to watch, but when i think of him looking for his own shot, what comes to mind is him dribbling the ball for 10 seconds at the top of the key and then launching a fadeaway jumper from 20' that'll hit the top of the backboard. it's just not something i want going through his mind.




anyway, orlando on monday, chicago on wednesday, miami on friday, and @atlanta on saturday (on a side note, that will be the 3rd week out of 4 in a row where they'll play M/W/F/S. is that just a quirk of their schedule or are other teams also getting that kind of regularity). i'd really like to get a win against miami, but this is the first real chance the team will get to test themselves against playoff caliber competition, so i'll take any win that comes.
   2933. nick swisher hygiene Posted: January 28, 2012 at 10:56 PM (#4048517)
I'd say maybe you're wrong for Denver--underestimating Andre Miller is the natural thing to do, guy shouldn't be as effective as he is.....

So, looking at the boxscore for tonight's thriller: if you just said \"#### it" and merged the Bobcats with the Wizards, do you have a .500 team?
   2934. steagles Posted: January 28, 2012 at 11:05 PM (#4048524)
J. Michael Falgoust: #Knicks are shooting 3 for 21 from three-point line...or 14% #nba #rockets 3 minutes ago

J. Michael Falgoust: Lin cant finish @ the rim and #Knicks are getting abused on the boards. 91-71. This is getting ugly #Rockets #nba 4 minutes ago

Howard Beck: Your 4th-qtr Knicks lineup: Stoudemire, Novak, Balkman, Lin, Shumpert. #notypos about 9 minutes ago

Alan Hahn: Very bizarre lineup on the court right now for #Knicks...Lin, Bibby, Shumpert, Jared and Tyson. Doubt they've ever played together. about 14 minutes ago

Al Iannazzone: The Knicks lineup with 4:19 left in the third is Mike Bibby, Jeremy Lin, Iman Shumpert, Jared Jeffries and Tyson Chandler. about 19 minutes ago
   2935. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: January 28, 2012 at 11:10 PM (#4048531)
Gordon wanted to extend with NOH, they just couldn't bridge the (not that big) gap in cost.

I've argued on Iggy's behalf a lot on this site (even prior to your arrival, steagles, i think) but i totally agree. His primary value on offense is as a facilitator who can get points in transition or in the flow of the offense. You do not want to run much specifically for him, outside of playing mismatches.

I think Minnesota could do better insofar as parlaying Ridnour into an asset - but a deal where Beasley goes to New Orleans and Kaman to Minnesota (with other pieces moving around too) makes a lot of sense.
[You know, if they could find a three way where Minnesota offers Darko + Beasley for Kaman - with the third party getting Darko and offer some low 1st to New Orleans ... I dunno, could happen?]
Granted, it's not that hard to argue that Darko might have negative trade value.
   2936. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: January 28, 2012 at 11:15 PM (#4048540)
Upon further review, HOU has rights to the pick until like '16. I think.
   2937. robinred Posted: January 29, 2012 at 12:36 AM (#4048570)
Nothing much to say about the Lakers, except that Pau was 6/18 and Gooden was 9/14. Perhaps David Thorpe will discuss this. Kobe did throw up a couple of questionable shots late, but he was 10/21 and had 8 boards and 9 dimes.

Three rough calls down the stretch go against the Grizzlies. I am not a blame-the-zebras guy--but this was the same official and the calls looked bad to me on replay. Maybe Maxwn will have thoughts on the issue from the Memphis perspective.
   2938. Maxwn Posted: January 29, 2012 at 02:15 AM (#4048597)
Three rough calls down the stretch go against the Grizzlies. I am not a blame-the-zebras guy--but this was the same official and the calls looked bad to me on replay. Maybe Maxwn will have thoughts on the issue from the Memphis perspective.

Eh, what are you going to do? They were pretty terrible calls, but it never should have been that kind of game anyway. The Grizz were terrible in the first half and spent the rest of the game trying to catch up. I will say that it would be a little easier to take if it was Steve Nash getting the calls. Jared Dudley on the other hand, that pisses you off a little. Sometimes I feel that the Grizzlies get a little screwed on the calls because we don't have a real star and they gamble a lot on defense and can look pretty out of control at times. It also hurts running a lot of your offense through the post sometimes, cause I feel like the refs let a lot of #### go in the paint. Sometimes I think Marc Gasol has to nearly get killed to draw a foul. But who knows, confirmation bias looms large in these types of discussions.

They've now dropped three straight and the schedule isn't getting any easier from here. Having watched them, I actually feel like they are close to being a pretty damn good team, even without Z-Bo, but the offense is still a work in progress and they dropped some games they should have won. They're going to have to get it together to make it through February, although at least a lot of them are at home. I'll be at the Denver game on Tuesday. That'll be the back end of a back-to-back, with San Antonio on Monday. I have hard time imagining them winning that one, but at some point they've got to pull out some tough wins.
   2939. tshipman Posted: January 29, 2012 at 03:22 AM (#4048603)
I don't know how to assess a Kaman trade because New Orleans wants to get worse, not better by making the trade.

However, Kaman is already an expiring. So they want to be worse for the rest of this year, but better in the future. So ideally you'd want to trade for like the rights to a guy in Europe or something.

Darko has multiple years on his deal, so that's a no-go. The NBA trade environment is very weird right now.
   2940. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: January 29, 2012 at 04:37 AM (#4048610)
However, Kaman is already an expiring. So they want to be worse for the rest of this year, but better in the future. So ideally you'd want to trade for like the rights to a guy in Europe or something.


I know I bash the guy like Abbott on Kobe but Cousins might make some sense here as a gamble on the future. Not really sure how to make the rest of that trade work though.

   2941. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: January 29, 2012 at 09:33 AM (#4048630)
2939: Not that you were addressing me specifically, but.... Agreed - I meant it partly as a contract dump for MIN - it would require NOH to want Beasley (which could be true - he can put up numbers, though he hasn't been efficient) and somebody else wanting Darko as a project (I would hope that ship has passed but he's still got pretty good physical tools, isn't that old).
Part of the catch for NOH is that they'll have to take on a decent amount of salary this year (gross, not net) because Kaman makes so much.
   2942. tshipman Posted: January 29, 2012 at 12:26 PM (#4048681)
I know I bash the guy like Abbott on Kobe but Cousins might make some sense here as a gamble on the future. Not really sure how to make the rest of that trade work though.


Cousins is almost certainly not available for Kaman. Cousins, no matter what else is wrong with him, is averaging 4.4 offensive boards a game and doing so in just 29 min. per game. His shooting percentage is up (slightly) from last year. He has a 20 PER. He still fouls way too much, but he's really close to being an awfully valuable guy.
   2943. steagles Posted: January 29, 2012 at 04:07 PM (#4048790)
pregame for bulls-heat is on ABC. game tips off in about half an hour.
   2944. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 29, 2012 at 04:24 PM (#4048799)
No Deng and no Watson for the Bulls. Rip is trying to play. Doesn't look good for the Bulls but win or lose it doesn't mean anything until May.
   2945. Chicago Joe Posted: January 29, 2012 at 04:28 PM (#4048801)
An imploded Hornets organization selling at a bargain basement price is what he wanted


Why does Stern want to sell the Hornets at a bargain basement price?
   2946. steagles Posted: January 29, 2012 at 04:42 PM (#4048807)
you know, i would really like it if chris bosh would stop swishing 18' jumpshots.
   2947. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: January 29, 2012 at 04:44 PM (#4048808)
Pelton just made an excellent point on twitter. Why bench a guy who averages 1.6 fouls because he picks up 2 early?
   2948. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: January 29, 2012 at 05:24 PM (#4048823)
Best dunk I've seen this year.
   2949. King Mekong Posted: January 29, 2012 at 05:30 PM (#4048826)
Best dunk I've seen this year.

Agreed.
I also like the weird Blake Griffin commercials.

It's been a good game so far.
   2950. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: January 29, 2012 at 05:33 PM (#4048828)
I also like the weird Blake Griffin commercials.

Love these.

Wade looks terrible.
   2951. steagles Posted: January 29, 2012 at 05:40 PM (#4048830)
Kurt Helin: Report: Sixers trying to trade for Amare Stoudemire http://dlvr.it/17yYY9 #PBT #NBA 4 minutes ago
3 things about that article:

"Pursuing may actually be too strong of a word"
that's probably the key point in all of this. it's not likely. it's beyond not likely. but assuming it is

"It’s unclear exactly what the Sixers would have to give up to get Stoudemire"
i would not give up elton brand for him, and i don't think the sixers have a less valuable asset than him on their roster. so, really, i wouldn't give up much of anything for the 4 years/80 million that he has left on his current contract.

"is it really worth adding Stoudemire while busting up the team’s core?"
i don't know that i've said this here, but i've definitely said it elsewhere. getting dwight howard is worth breaking up the core. getting lebron is worth breaking up the core. but short of that, i'd much rather just ride with what we have. the current core may not be enough to get past miami or chicago this year, but this team's championship window isn't closing this year. or next year. or the year after.

the core of this team (turner, holiday, young, williams, meeks, hawes, vucevic) is all under 25, and it'd be selling them short to try to shoehorn a flawed player into a team that is really coming together.
   2952. steagles Posted: January 29, 2012 at 05:41 PM (#4048834)
I also like the weird Blake Griffin commercials.

Love these.
i'll add my approval. they really are great.
   2953. smileyy Posted: January 29, 2012 at 06:44 PM (#4048862)
you know, i would really like it if chris bosh would stop swishing 18' jumpshots.


So would the rest of the NBA.

Derrick Rose is pretty good.
   2954. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 29, 2012 at 07:04 PM (#4048871)
What a horrible possession by the Heat and James. Back to a one point game.

This game is not going to help James' reputation...

Did Devin Harris take those free throws for Rose? Yikes.
   2955. steagles Posted: January 29, 2012 at 07:06 PM (#4048873)
rose kinda went full iguodala there.
   2956. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 29, 2012 at 07:06 PM (#4048875)
GAAAAK.
   2957. steagles Posted: January 29, 2012 at 07:08 PM (#4048877)
lebron kinda went full iguodala there.
   2958. smileyy Posted: January 29, 2012 at 07:09 PM (#4048878)
That's some incredible choking by LeBron, falling back on possession techniques that have failed him so many times before in crunchtime.

Edit: What an all-around dreadful display of basketball in the closing of the game. Bulls, Heat, officials...
   2959. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 29, 2012 at 07:11 PM (#4048879)
This has been an ugly last minute.
   2960. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 29, 2012 at 08:05 PM (#4048902)
That was tough. Bulls put up a good fight, but just didn't have enough offense down the stretch*. Bulls really missed both Deng and Watson today. I love Ronnie Brewer, but he just can't defend LeBron (not that many guys can, but Deng does make him work harder). And JLIII proved once again he's better suited to be a speed bump than an NBA player. Rose played 45 minutes - 45 hard minutes - and he just didn't have his legs at the end. That's not an excuse for missing those FTs, but he really short armed every shot the last half of the 4th (and settled for some 3's).

I really don't think either team has much they can take from this game (although it's not a good sign what the Heat tried to do with the lead down the stretch), but it would be really nice if Boozer could get his head out of his ass and at least pretend to be a threat against Miami. Part of his ineffectiveness is Anthony and Haslem's defense, but they pretty much just ignored him after the first quarter and he couldn't do ####. If the Bulls hope to beat Miami in the playoffs, they need Boozer to be an offensive option.

*Repeat from last year's playoffs.
   2961. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 29, 2012 at 08:16 PM (#4048907)
KCJHoop: Prepare for some major DRose beating up of himself. #Bulls

KCJHoop: As far as DRose self-flagellation speeches, that was an A plus. "I guarantee you those shots are going down next time." #Bulls


Sometimes I worry he cares too much.
   2962. andrewberg Posted: January 29, 2012 at 08:37 PM (#4048913)
I'll be happy if the Wolves or the Funkasaurus win tonight. I'll be elated if they both win. Oh, and Love cannot guard Pau. Tough to watch.
   2963. steagles Posted: January 29, 2012 at 08:57 PM (#4048924)
I'll be happy if the Wolves or the Funkasaurus win tonight. I'll be elated if they both win. Oh, and Love cannot guard Pau. Tough to watch.
somebody call his momma.
   2964. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 29, 2012 at 09:53 PM (#4048954)
The Wolves finish the 3rd on a 14-2 run, and the Lakers suddenly look like they're moving in slow motion. I'm scared.
   2965. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: January 29, 2012 at 09:54 PM (#4048955)
Ricky Rubio is an absolute joy to watch. Man...that '09 draft was the beginning of everything going wrong for the Knicks.
   2966. robinred Posted: January 29, 2012 at 09:55 PM (#4048956)
I'm scared.


Lakers are a good team to go zone against. I was more surprised that they got up 18.
   2967. robinred Posted: January 29, 2012 at 09:56 PM (#4048957)
I'm scared.


Lakers are a good team to go zone against. I was more surprised that they got up 18 at all.
   2968. robinred Posted: January 29, 2012 at 10:02 PM (#4048960)
Minnesota has 21 offensive rebounds.
   2969. steagles Posted: January 29, 2012 at 10:02 PM (#4048961)
tmoorepburbs Tom Moore
Other two players (besides Iguodala, 2) with 10, 10, 10 triple-doubles since 1954 are Penny Hardaway in 2003 and Jason Kidd (2006).



was he still even in the league in 2003?
   2970. Maxwn Posted: January 29, 2012 at 10:05 PM (#4048962)
This San Antonio/Dallas game on ESPN is crazy. Spurs went on some crazy come back with the bench in the entire time. Then Jason Terry tied it back up with a near last second shot. Then Danny Green would have won it if he had 0.6 secs left instead of 0.5 secs, but instead it is going to OT.
   2971. Maxwn Posted: January 29, 2012 at 10:09 PM (#4048967)
Popovich has played Danny Green, Gary Neal, James Anderson, Matt Bonner, and Tiago Splitter together as a unit since 2:45 left in the third, at which point they were down 16 pts. So of course they came back against the defending champs in Dallas. Pop is a mad genius.
   2972. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: January 29, 2012 at 10:15 PM (#4048968)
I feel like Anderson is gonna be a guy like Mahinmi, where the Spurs gave up a bit too soon on him.
   2973. robinred Posted: January 29, 2012 at 10:19 PM (#4048969)
Minnesota has 24 offensive rebounds now.

Kobe has 33 points and 13 boards. No subs in the 4th for either team.

   2974. Maxwn Posted: January 29, 2012 at 10:24 PM (#4048970)
I feel like Anderson is gonna be a guy like Mahinmi, where the Spurs gave up a bit too soon on him.

Well right now SA is glad they let Mahinmi go so he could brick two FTs for DAL up 1 with 10 secs left.
   2975. Maxwn Posted: January 29, 2012 at 10:26 PM (#4048971)
Well, the last possession for SA wasn't much to talk about. DAL wins by 1.
   2976. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 29, 2012 at 10:27 PM (#4048972)
Bryant saves the Lakers. 42 minutes last night, and what should be 42 minutes tonight. Bryant finishes with 35 and 14 boards. The Lakers got devastated on the offense boards tonight; it's just inexcusable for a group led by Bynum and Gasol to yield 24 offensive boards.
   2977. robinred Posted: January 29, 2012 at 10:34 PM (#4048975)
Minnesota's guys are too quick for them, and neither Bynum nor Gasol has ever boxed out.

Still, the issue is the guys 4-9, not 1-3.

Kobe played down the strecth as he needs to: got the ball to the bigs, and went for the dagger shots with looks in the 10-15 range, rather than 22-foot hero shots.
   2978. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 29, 2012 at 10:42 PM (#4048982)
I gotta say this: the Timberwolves are an easy team to root for.
   2979. robinred Posted: January 29, 2012 at 10:51 PM (#4048988)
Indiana beat Orlando 106-85 in Orlando. Supposedly the Hawks and Knicks have offers on the table for Howard.

And yes, Minnesota is everybody's second-favorite team (except for those of us who like the Bucks). Between the Lakers' slow feet and Rubio's great gifts, Minnesota had only 4 turnovers. But Rubio was only 2/13 from the floor tonight, and that was the issue that people worried about.

Still, he is the most exciting passer to come into the league in many years--generates many quality looks for his teammates.
   2980. tshipman Posted: January 29, 2012 at 10:55 PM (#4048991)
Still, the issue is the guys 4-9, not 1-3.


Pau having his worst year in LA is really part of the problem.

Although saying that the players are the problem ignores the coaching downgrade from last year. Just an inexcusable unforced error.
   2981. robinred Posted: January 29, 2012 at 11:06 PM (#4049002)
Pau having his worst year in LA is really part of the problem.


Pau misses the Triangle, he misses Odom, and he is 31 years old. If you want to say he is a top 50-guy and used to be a top-20 guy, fine. Although he has handled it pretty well, I am sure he is still pissed off about the trade, as his chippiness with Paul showed. He might actually want out at this point, although he has mostly said the right things.

Like I said, Minnesota has some mobile bigs--like Gooden showed last night, that is a problem on the defensive side of the ball for Bynum and Gasol. But Fisher and MWP, arguably, shouldn't even be in the league anymore, and they are starting. The other guys who got burn tonight were Matt Barnes, Troy Murphy, Andrew Goudelock, Jason Kapono, and Josh McRoberts.

As far as Brown, well, I said at the time I would have preferred Adelman or Shaw. Most Lakers fans agreed, I think. But the lack of secondary talent on the team is the key issue by a wide margin IMO.
   2982. puck Posted: January 29, 2012 at 11:38 PM (#4049013)
Nuggets lose to the Clippers at home as Billups goes for 32. Gallinari looked horrible late in the game going one-on-one. Nuggets have the same record at home and on the road.
   2983. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: January 30, 2012 at 12:01 AM (#4049023)
Nuggets lose to the Clippers at home as Billups goes for 32. Gallinari looked horrible late in the game going one-on-one. Nuggets have the same record at home and on the road.

He was getting to the rim at will, but not finishing strong enough. For whatever reason the Nuggets broadcast didn't break out the replay on these plays so while Gallo thought he was getting fouled, I have no idea whether that was actually the case. It was kinda funny to see him get lose the ball on one of these types of plays followed by Chauncey recovering it and picking up a touch foul and 1 on Nene at the other end.
   2984. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 30, 2012 at 11:48 AM (#4049201)
Supposedly the Hawks and Knicks have offers on the table for Howard.

Someone got Howard to talk about the Bulls:

"If I could play with Derrick right now and God wanted that to happen, it will happen," Howard told the Tribune. "It has nothing to do with me not wanting to play with Derrick Rose. I love him. That's my brother.''


So God hasn't told you to put the Bulls on your trade list yet?

---

Like I said, Minnesota has some mobile bigs--like Gooden showed last night, that is a problem on the defensive side of the ball for Bynum and Gasol.

I know what your overall point is and I'm not disputing that, but if Gasol and Bynum have trouble with guys like Drew ####### Gooden, that's a problem with 1-3.

---

More Rose beating himself up quotes:

He looked downward glumly. He swore. He referenced a higher power.

Rose didn't cry, although his voice caught during one answer, he stopped to compose himself during another and who knows what happened before reporters were allowed in the locker room.

"It's definitely tough," Rose said. "All I can say is, I guess God does everything for a reason. To miss both and let my team down, the only thing I can do is learn from it.

"This is so unreal. I had a chance to change the game. This time, it didn't work out. I know my will to win is still very high. I guarantee you next time those shots are going down."

"It was me," Rose said. "All those plays at the end, if I had hit the free throws, it would've never got that far. I know I can live with it. It's just going to make me stronger."


I think Rip trying to play so much yesterday - 36 minutes - on that bad groin and the hip that made him miss Friday's game was probably a bad idea; I wouldn't be surprised to see him not play tonight in Washington.
   2985. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 30, 2012 at 01:05 PM (#4049322)
Howard's FT problems really annoys me. I know it takes more than just practice, but he's down to 46% this year How did he shoot 67% at 19 anyway? Maybe this is being unfair, but considering all the trade drama surrounding him I think the problem is concentration. If he's healthy, there is no reason for him to shoot this poorly.
   2986. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 30, 2012 at 01:26 PM (#4049353)
I think Rose makes the pass the next time they're in this situation. It's what he did against Indiana last Wednesday - and that pass was to Scalabrine. As a fan, I think he was still thinking of the missed FTs and the need to atone for those - but that's likely just me projecting.
   2987. robinred Posted: January 30, 2012 at 01:39 PM (#4049374)
I know what your overall point is and I'm not disputing that, but if Gasol and Bynum have trouble with guys like Drew ####### Gooden, that's a problem with 1-3.


Like I said a couple of pages ago, Gasol, Bynum, and Bryant all have their faults. But what I am seeing (not here, but in the Laker fanbase) is people constantly hating on Gasol and Bynum for everything they do wrong, sort of like some of the internet media geeks do with Kobe. When I use the term "problem" I mean "Big picture reason the team is not a contender and guy who needs to be replaced if the team is going to have any shot at being really good." That is Fisher and MWP, not Pau and Bynum.

Certainly they, and everybody else on the team, deserve some criticism/video work for getting crushed on the O glass, just like Kobe deserved criticism after the Denver game. But people need to keep perspective. Players have weaknesses. Bynum and Gasol are very good players, but they are both tall slow guys with long arms who have never boxed out well and mostly can get away with it. There are always two teams on the floor. Gooden may have a crappy contract, but he is mobile and not a bad player, and Minnesota has Love and a lot of quick bigs. It was a b2b. Brown has three guaranteed years on his deal and a nice buyout in Year 4, but he is coaching like a man who is terrified of finishing in 9th place in the West, and is working Bynum, Gasol, and Bryant, too hard.

All these things are in play, and Bynum and Gasol aren't the reason that the Lakers are not a top-tier contender anymore.
   2988. andrewberg Posted: January 30, 2012 at 01:56 PM (#4049401)
The Lakers still looked pretty good last night against the Wolves. Rubio had a really bad shooting night, and Beasley being back in the lineup (even on one of his better shooting nights) meant a handful of possessions just pissed down the drain. Even when he's good, he's bad. It didn't help that Webster used so many possessions poorly. The bigger problem was not being able to guard Kobe and Pau. SG is a problem. It doesn't show up every game, but playing Kobe makes it obvious. Ginobili was clowning the guards earlier this year until he got hurt. Also, having 2 post threats means Love has to actually defend the ball, and he's not good at that. Tough matchup.
   2989. kpelton Posted: January 30, 2012 at 02:41 PM (#4049479)
As a reminder/addon to what Robin is saying, the Lakers are shooting 28.1% on threes this year. A good deal of that is Kobe, but a lot of it is players 4-9 failing at/being ill equipped for their No. 1 task.
   2990. JC in DC Posted: January 30, 2012 at 03:32 PM (#4049584)
Howard's FT problems really annoys me. I know it takes more than just practice, but he's down to 46% this year How did he shoot 67% at 19 anyway? Maybe this is being unfair, but considering all the trade drama surrounding him I think the problem is concentration. If he's healthy, there is no reason for him to shoot this poorly.


FTs are an interesting thing, aren't they? Huge mental component to them, not just in terms of confidence, but focus. As an interesting side note, my daughter was taught by Mark Alarie to look down when she shoots FTs, and "find the rim" as she comes up with the ball. In other words, not to stare at the rim. For a while, it worked well, but she seemed to have crested at around 75-80%. So, at practice last week, after having watched Steve Nash (career 90%FT) stare at the rim, I suggested she drop the "Alarie" approach. Saturday night at practice she made 48 in a row. So much for the Alarie approach!
   2991. Jimmy P Posted: January 30, 2012 at 04:00 PM (#4049643)
I see it all the time. As someone who was deeply saddened when he first found out he had to get glasses the coolification of eyewear troubles me greatly

I agree. I was made fun of so much for my glasses.


"If I could play with Derrick right now and God wanted that to happen, it will happen," Howard told the Tribune. "It has nothing to do with me not wanting to play with Derrick Rose. I love him. That's my brother.''


It's become very clear that Howard does not want to hurt anyone's feelings, and when he's specifically asked about a team, "Oh yes, I'd play for them."
   2992. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 30, 2012 at 04:08 PM (#4049660)
As a reminder/addon to what Robin is saying, the Lakers are shooting 28.1% on threes this year. A good deal of that is Kobe, but a lot of it is players 4-9 failing at/being ill equipped for their No. 1 task.
I would argue that most of it is 4-9. Bryant's shooting 29% from the arc actually brings UP the Lakers' 3-point percentage from 27.7% to 28.1%. Not only that, but a significant number of Bryant's 3s are jacked up with the play busted and the clock winding down, the lowest of low percentage shots.

As for the non-Kobe contingent (Steve Blake I don't include because he's unavailable), Barnes, Fisher, World Peace, Murphy, Goudelock, Kapono, Morris, Ebanks, Walton have collectively shot 22% from the arc. Twenty-two percent! People can talk about Selfish Kobe all they want, but the Lakers only work when they're shooting a decent percentage from outside. Ideally, you have Bynum and Gasol in the paint, the bench mob as decent outside threats, and Bryant as the wild card all chipping in. Without the 3-pointers, defenses are free to collapse down on Gasol and Bynum (who, by the way, is horrible at passing out of the double-team), and it's left to Bryant to do all the heavy lifting. Also, when teams don't feel the need to stretch the defense, it also means Bryant's got fewer lanes to the basket and has to settle for more jump shots.

So, at practice last week, after having watched Steve Nash (career 90%FT) stare at the rim, I suggested she drop the "Alarie" approach. Saturday night at practice she made 48 in a row. So much for the Alarie approach!
She should try the Ahearn Approach. Blake Ahearn's hit 106 FTs in a row in the D-league.
   2993. Into the Void Posted: January 30, 2012 at 04:13 PM (#4049668)
[It's become very clear that Howard does not want to hurt anyone's feelings, and when he's specifically asked about a team, "Oh yes, I'd play for them."


Except for the Warriors! The only way anyone comes to the Warriors is if 1) they are paid drastically above their market value, and 2) don't mind being on a perennial losing team for the duration of their contract (or until they demand a trade a few years into said contract).
   2994. smileyy Posted: January 30, 2012 at 04:24 PM (#4049689)
I can think of a lot of players who would do well to plateau at 75-85% FT shooting...
   2995. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 30, 2012 at 04:30 PM (#4049696)
JC can use the threat of replacing his daughter on the team with her younger, better FT shooting sister though. It's daughters all the way down.
   2996. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: January 30, 2012 at 04:38 PM (#4049704)
I don't think anyone has ever made fun of my wearing glasses. Granted, making fun of the glasses themselves is another matter (slightly colorblind people ought to get help in picking out their frames, so that when they want metallic grey they don't snag purple).

The inability of Blake Ahearn to stick in the bigs has helped me appreciate the athleticism that, say, a Matt Carroll brings to the table. (Sure - if Ahearn were Carroll's size, he'd already be in the NBA - that's not what I'm talking about here.)

Anybody else here admit to being a lousy guy from the line? I peaked at 70% - normally in the low 60s. Inconsistent mechanics are a #####.
   2997. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 30, 2012 at 04:49 PM (#4049718)
Anybody else here admit to being a lousy guy from the line? I peaked at 70% - normally in the low 60s. Inconsistent mechanics are a #####.
I only ever had stats recorded for six seasons of Saturday morning rec league games, but I was only ever between 60%-70%, peaking at 75% in the first year we made the playoffs. Inconsistent mechanics is right; we never practiced it.

Speaking of approaches, I always used the Don MacLean FT approach, where you're squared to the basket, and you bring the ball straight up and lean into the shot slightly on the release. That guy pretty much never missed FTs in the games I saw.
   2998. andrewberg Posted: January 30, 2012 at 04:51 PM (#4049719)
Anybody else here admit to being a lousy guy from the line? I peaked at 70% - normally in the low 60s. Inconsistent mechanics are a #####.


Me. I worked hard at FTs to also get to around 70%, maybe slightly higher at best. I am simply not a good shooter. I have practiced it a lot, and never seen sustained improvement. I can do some other things well naturally, I practiced other things and got good at them, but shooting is something I practiced without ever improving much.
   2999. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: January 30, 2012 at 05:08 PM (#4049746)
Anybody else here admit to being a lousy guy from the line? I peaked at 70% - normally in the low 60s. Inconsistent mechanics are a #####.

Spent most of my career at about a 50% FT shooter, jumped up to 70% in law school due to a change in routine. I used to do 3 bounces with both hands on the ball while looking at the ball, lightly throw/spin the ball in the palm of my right hand, look towards the basket, bend knees and let it go. I kept the bounce and spin routine the same except now I bend my knees and as I'm coming back up from bending I look at the rim at the last second.
   3000. steagles Posted: January 30, 2012 at 05:14 PM (#4049750)
with the sixers starting tonight a stretch of 7 straight games against playoff caliber competition (ORL, CHI, MIA, ATL, LAL, SAS, and LAC), i'm just gonna get in 1 more dose of unbridled optimism:
There have been 38 teams in N.B.A. history with a point differential of at least plus-10.0 points a game through their first 18 games. The median winning percentage of those teams was .753, which translates to 49.7 wins over a 66-game season. Additionally, 24 of those teams advanced to the N.B.A. finals, with 19 claiming the championship.




i'm really looking forward to this stretch, though. i can't wait to see how this team stacks up against the top tier of the league, but i've gotta admit, anything less than 5-2 will be a pretty significant disappointment. if this team is as good as i think it can be, this is the stretch where they really need to start to prove it.
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