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Friday, December 02, 2011

NBA THREAD DECEMBER: POST-LOCKOUT

With the lockout over, I estimate that there may be more than 10-12 Primates who want to talk about the NBA, and with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: fractional reserve banking, and Tim Tebow.

robinred Posted: December 02, 2011 at 12:26 AM | 3254 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   301. madvillain Posted: December 08, 2011 at 10:44 PM (#4010737)
The Knicks aren't under the cap. How can they bid on Baron?


Yea Coon just confirmed this. I'm just following the Knicks RealGM board a bit. Guess the job would be DWTDD's to lose.
   302. robinred Posted: December 08, 2011 at 10:51 PM (#4010743)
Why do teams get so irrational when negotiating with the lakers?


Same reason you and Joe get irrational talking about them, I guess.

The Lakers have not gotten anyone yet. Chill.
   303. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: December 08, 2011 at 10:54 PM (#4010747)
This re-negotiate and extend thing seems extremely exciting. Is there any analysis on it as far as how many players can you do it with and whether their original or re-negotiated contracts count against the cap? I'm trying to come up with CP3 to NYK as a FA scenarios here people, help me out.
   304. andrewberg Posted: December 08, 2011 at 10:55 PM (#4010748)
Yea Coon just confirmed this. I'm just following the Knicks RealGM board a bit. Guess the job would be DWTDD's to lose.


When I first read it, I thought your computer or phone autocorrected "Bibby" to "Diddy" and I thought that was funny, then I re-read the post.

The Lakers have not gotten anyone yet. Chill.


Yeah, I just had that conversation in my head about 15 minutes ago. The idea that Pau goes into the black box and Paul comes out the other side just does not compute. There's a letter that is unaccounted for, amongst other things.
   305. robinred Posted: December 08, 2011 at 10:56 PM (#4010752)
Then it's Bynum, Odom, and Kwame Brown for Howard


It'll be a three-way, in which Orlando gets the immortal Al Jefferson to replace Howard as their franchise anchor.
   306. andrewberg Posted: December 08, 2011 at 10:57 PM (#4010754)
This re-negotiate and extend thing seems extremely exciting. Is there any analysis on it as far as how many players can you do it with and whether their original or re-negotiated contracts count against the cap? I'm trying to come up with CP3 to NYK as a FA scenarios here people, help me out.


I would be very surprised if this allowed a player to extend his deal beyond the max deal length. Otherwise, it would be a pretty enormous loophole to allow guys to sign for an extra year, and the team could just give them another year's salary.
   307. andrewberg Posted: December 08, 2011 at 11:04 PM (#4010763)
Players cannot be subject to discipline based on what they say while they or another player wears a microphone.


I would wear a microphone all the time!

Increases in per diem (to $120)


Sources tell me that the owners would absolutely not go to $125.
   308. Famous Original Joe C Posted: December 08, 2011 at 11:09 PM (#4010767)
It seems like a lot to me, but a.) I don't know the best way to make dollar valuations of NBA players and b.) It might be skewed because the NBA has a max salary so anytime someone who is not a true superstar makes money close to what those guys make (or makes more in some cases, Joe Johnson) it's going to seem like a huge overpay. All that said, the Knicks need rebounding/defense more than almost any team and they just filled that need (assuming/hoping/praying this goes through).

All good points. I don't know how to make those valuations either; it just "feels" high to me.
   309. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: December 08, 2011 at 11:10 PM (#4010768)
The idea that Pau goes into the black box and Paul comes out the other side just does not compute. There's a letter that is unaccounted for, amongst other things.


That L goes into the appropriate column for the Hornets, and it's bringing friends.
   310. Famous Original Joe C Posted: December 08, 2011 at 11:11 PM (#4010769)
The Lakers have not gotten anyone yet. Chill.

Oh, I know. It's just fun to get posts like your [305] and the ones from the previous page in return. Having some fun.
   311. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 08, 2011 at 11:12 PM (#4010772)
Yeah, I just had that conversation in my head about 15 minutes ago. The idea that Pau goes into the black box and Paul comes out the other side just does not compute.

Right now, it's just Broussard and they're just "discussions." I need more than that for me to take it seriously. A lot more.
   312. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 08, 2011 at 11:15 PM (#4010778)
I don't know how to make those valuations either; it just "feels" high to me.

Max for Chandler is 4/74. Simmons had him going back to Dallas at 4/69. Four for 58 works for me. If someone does a sign and trade for Nene at 5/100, Chandler's a steal.
   313. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 08, 2011 at 11:18 PM (#4010782)
How about 'Melo for CP3? I'd do that in a heartbeat, too.
   314. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: December 08, 2011 at 11:25 PM (#4010794)
How about 'Melo for CP3? I'd do that in a heartbeat, too.

CP3 would, essentially, have to agree to stabbing his friend in the back.
   315. robinred Posted: December 08, 2011 at 11:32 PM (#4010806)
If someone does a sign and trade for Nene at 5/100,Chandler's a steal.


Who had the hose last?
   316. robinred Posted: December 08, 2011 at 11:33 PM (#4010808)
CP3 would, essentially, have to agree to stabbing his friend in the back.


Yeah, I don't see this going down that way.
   317. robinred Posted: December 08, 2011 at 11:35 PM (#4010810)
Simmons had him going back to Dallas at 4/69.


Simmons is pretty much full of shitt. Don't get me wrong; triggering on Chandler makes plenty of sense for the Knicks. But the guy is not a "steal" at 14.5M a year.
   318. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 08, 2011 at 11:41 PM (#4010816)
Yeah, I don't see this going down that way.

Paul likes playing with Chandler a lot and that covers for losing Anthony. If the Knicks really wanted to win the CP3 derby, that would almost certainly trump everyone. I'd give it serious thought if I were them.

But the guy is not a "steal" at 14.5M a year.

Only in the context of Nene at 5/100. But, true, that's a lot of money. You have to think part of what they're paying for is premised somehow, some way, on CP3, no?
   319. robinred Posted: December 08, 2011 at 11:43 PM (#4010817)
I know he makes the Knicks better....but $14.5M per year for Chandler


Given the scarcity of big men, the Knicks' resources, roster composition, and the fit, it makes sense for the Knicks to give Chandler a shitload of money. He is a 10-15M player--for them.
   320. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: December 08, 2011 at 11:56 PM (#4010826)
You have to think part of what they're paying for is premised somehow, some way, on CP3, no?

NO. I cannot stress that enough. And no, I don't think trading Melo (or STAT) for him is a realistic option either.
   321. Into the Void Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:04 AM (#4010836)
Woj reporting Paul going to the Lakers for Gasol and Odom is a done deal.

-edited-
   322. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:10 AM (#4010842)
NO. I cannot stress that enough. And no, I don't think trading Melo (or STAT) for him is a realistic option either.

The Chandler move came completely out of the blue and I think the Knicks might actually be thinking outside the box and actually trying to put a team together, as opposed to a fantasy team. I expect STAT/Melo trade rumors to appear and be serious. I'd offer the Nets either one for D-Will.
   323. andrewberg Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:13 AM (#4010844)
Woj reporting Paul going to the Lakers for Bynum and Odom is a done deal.


Then immediately changed the report from Bynum to Gasol. He has no idea what he's talking about. He is a hack who makes up most of his reports.
   324. robinred Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:17 AM (#4010848)
Paul likes playing with Chandler a lot and that covers for losing Anthony


This gets into the realm of the unknowable, in the sense that we don't really know how these guys' relationships are, what they have talked about, etc.

Paul likes playing with Chandler, but all indications are that he and Anthony and Stoudemire (and Wade and James) are very tight personally.

But again, we don't know.

This Chandler/NY stuff makes me think, as I alluded to earlier, that Cuban will be heard from in all this, one way or another.
   325. smileyy Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:17 AM (#4010849)
If CP3 goes to the Lakers, the lockout is even more of a stupid $*(#ing joke.

Small market owners ##### about profitability, then are forced to overpay FAs just to hit the higher salary floor.
Small market owners complain about being unable to keep their superstars, but one is still ends up trading a top-5 player to the Lakers.

*($# every one of you owners for taking my games away.
   326. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:17 AM (#4010850)
CP3 for Odom + Gasol.

ADDENDUM: Coke to Void.

What does LA's frontcourt rotation look like now? Bynum and...?
   327. Fourth True Outcome Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:19 AM (#4010852)
I really, really hope the CP3 for Odom and Gasol rumor is wrong. What a joke that trade would be. How would getting 31 and 32 year-olds constitute rebuilding?
   328. robinred Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:20 AM (#4010853)
He has no idea what he's talking about. He is a hack who makes up most of his reports.


You and Joe just crack me up when it comes to the Lakers.

The Lakers are obviously in the mix on all this shitt; they may get Paul or Howard, they may not. That is all we got.

Back in the real world, I am not a fan of the deal the Clippers gave Caron Butler.
   329. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:21 AM (#4010855)
ESPN's Stein reporting the deal isn't done, with HOU still in the running for Gasol.
   330. smileyy Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:21 AM (#4010856)
[327] Re-flip Gasol for picks, waive Odom, wait for the Lottery? When you lose a top-5 guy and a fringe All-Star (West), you may as well blow it all up.
   331. Fourth True Outcome Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:21 AM (#4010858)
Marc Stein reporting that the Rockets are still in on things, trying to get Gasol from the Hornets if the CP3 trade happens.

I also am not a fan of the Butler signing. I don't really see how that is the move that team needs.

Edit: Coke to Frank McCourt
   332. andrewberg Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:23 AM (#4010859)
You and Joe just crack me up when it comes to the Lakers.


I have Laker problems, but this was a Woj rant...

ESPN's Stein reporting the deal isn't done, with HOU still in the running for Gasol.


...See?
   333. andrewberg Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:24 AM (#4010860)
What does LA's frontcourt rotation look like now? Bynum and...?


Just Howard.
   334. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:25 AM (#4010861)
According to pieced-together tweets:
Lakers get CP3
Rockets get Gasol
Hornets get Odom, Scola, Martin and Dragic
   335. robinred Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:25 AM (#4010862)
Right on cue:

Gasol rumor is wrong


If it happens, it will be a three-four-way--like I have been saying for days. NO will get some youth, someone else will get Gasol and/or Odom, and the Lakers will get Paul.

I also assume that Demps will try to get rid of either Okafor's or Ariza's contract in the deal.

It has occurred to me that Indiana might be involved in a three-way with LAL and NO. They have Hill and Collison, and they supposedly want an upgrade on Hansbrough at the 4.
   336. madvillain Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:27 AM (#4010864)
Am I wrong that Paul/Kobe/Bynum/?/? isn't that great of a team? I mean, all 3 of those guys are injury prone as all hell. I doubt they are intact for the playoffs.
   337. Fourth True Outcome Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:28 AM (#4010865)
Is it possible Buss is so enamored of Bynum that he wouldn't be pushing hard to get Dwight if the CP3 trade goes through? Otherwise, CP3/Kobe/Dwight is still thin as hell behind the front three, but, barring CP3 knee trouble, that still seems like a front three that could deal with a short bench.
   338. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:29 AM (#4010866)
Paul/Kobe/Peace/?/Bynum. Who plays the 4? Matt Barnes?
   339. robinred Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:30 AM (#4010867)
...See?


See above. If this goes down, it will be a three-way. I don't know how good Wojnarowski's sources are--but it will be a three-way.

I also don't see Morey giving up Dragic, Scola, and Martin to get Pau , unless that is a prelude to something else.

Since Simmons is big buddies with Morey, it would be funny if Morey facilitated Paul's coming to the Lakers.
   340. madvillain Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:32 AM (#4010868)
You know who stands to lose the most from this? Khloe and the Kardashians. Couldn't have happened to a nicer family!
   341. andrewberg Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:33 AM (#4010869)
I also don't see Morey giving up Dragic, Scola, and Martin to get Pau , unless that is a prelude to something else.


Yeah, and Scola is no spring chicken either.
   342. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:34 AM (#4010870)
Odom has an $8.2M team option for 12-13. Hmm. That adds value beyond whatever Odom gives on the floor.
   343. robinred Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:38 AM (#4010873)
Who plays the 4?


I think all of you guys are getting way ahead of yourselves, but they would likely use the mini-MLE on a 4. They also have the trade exception from the Vujacic dump to use until the 15th.

guys are injury prone as all hell.


Kobe may well break down due to age/mileage, but calling him "injury prone" is ludicrous. Check his BaskRef page for his games played numbers. Durability has been one of Kobe's primary plusses as a player. Bynum you are right about of course.

WRT Paul, I am not sure we know what shape his knee is really in. People seem to make assertions about it a lot. I do think it is possible he will have a short shelf life as an elite player--one of many obvious reasons that Howard is a better get--although I find Paul much more fun to watch.
   344. robinred Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:41 AM (#4010878)
Odom has an $8.2M team option for 12-13


Bynum's deal has a 12-13 team option as well.

I agree with something Sam Amick wrote the other day: this may be a very big moment for the Clippers. If they don't come away with Paul or Howard, and the Lakers do, that will be bad for them, and even with Griffin, keep them being the "JV" in LA for awhile longer.
   345. andrewberg Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:42 AM (#4010879)
Far as I can tell, the Wojnarowski is still the only one who has "reported" this as a done deal. Stein tweeting about it, but only citing "Yahoo."

We'll see. Pretty interesting stuff.
   346. madvillain Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:42 AM (#4010880)
Kobe may well break down due to age/mileage, but calling him "injury prone" is ludicrous.


Of course. I had the pleasure of owning Kobe a season ago in fantasy, dude plays through everything. I meant "injury prone" in his case as "on the wrong side of 32".
   347. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:43 AM (#4010882)
Odom has a very nice contract. If the Lakers have to give that up, and the player that goes with it, it's a pretty big loss. Of course, the move from Fisher to Paul seems like something of an upgrade.

If Gasol is still a sought-after guy, the Lakers should be sniffing around NJ. Gasol for Williams (whether direct or with some other teams) would be a nice idea as well. After last year's debacle, my thought was that Gasol wasn't really movable and certainly not for a top player. If the Lakes can move him for good value, they should do it. If they can move him for an All-Star point guard, they need to just stick him on a plane until they find out where he should land.
   348. Fourth True Outcome Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:44 AM (#4010885)
NBPA announces that it has ratified the new CBA. It's bonafide!
   349. smileyy Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:46 AM (#4010886)
Kobe: Lots of miles on the odometer
Paul: Concerns about how many miles he'll be able to put on his odometer
Bynum: Injury-prone
   350. robinred Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:46 AM (#4010887)
After last year's debacle, my thought was that Gasol wasn't really movable and certainly not for a top player.


He actually had a good year, except for Phil killing him, and (duh) the Dallas series. I think Dallas winning it all took some heat off him.

And the deal isn't done, and it may all be BS.

Still and all, quite a day to be a Laker and Angel fan, huh, Dagoberto?
   351. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:47 AM (#4010888)
I expect STAT/Melo trade rumors to appear and be serious

You used the word fantasy in your post, and although not in the right context, I do believe it correctly describes this part of your post.

BTW, exactly *who* is the one getting creative? Is Allan Houston officially the GM? Is it Isiah?

Looks like the Paul to the Lakers stuff is going to preempt your fantasy anyway.
   352. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:48 AM (#4010889)
Wojo confirmation:

KBergCBS: Chris Paul to the Lakers is "done," league executive briefed on the deal tells @CBSSports.@WojYahooNBA says it's for Bynum and Odom.

KBergCBS: Source confirms updated @WojYahooNBA report that Hornets get Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom from the Lakers for Chris Paul.
   353. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:50 AM (#4010891)
the Lakers should be sniffing around NJ. Gasol for Williams (whether direct or with some other teams) would be a nice idea as well.

After Deron's "90%" comment the other day and his explanation of the money involved (extension vs resigning), I think the Nets aren't going to talk about trading him at all, much less for Gasol.
   354. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:53 AM (#4010893)
WojYahooNBA: Hornets working to finalize details on 3-team deal to send Chris Paul to Lakers, Gasol to Rockets and Odom, KMart, Scola to NO, sources say.
   355. robinred Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:53 AM (#4010894)
Williams and Brooklyn are Prokhorov's D12 bait. Williams is not going anywhere just yet.
   356. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:54 AM (#4010895)
He actually had a good year, except for Phil killing him, and (duh) the Dallas series.

He did have a nice season, but he was horrid against Memphis too. Not just bad for Gasol, but bad, real bad. Both series were favorable match-ups for him... and he was awful. Based on a few of the things that came out, I would be surprised to see him in a Laker uniform again.

Bynum and Odom for Paul would be a different thing. That move I'm not sure of.
   357. robinred Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:55 AM (#4010896)
WojYahooNBA: Hornets working to finalize details on 3-team deal to send Chris Paul to Lakers, Gasol to Rockets and Odom, KMart, Scola to NO, sources say.


Heh. Andrew, you think this is legit? ;-0
   358. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:55 AM (#4010897)
Good to know the exact numbers:

KBergCBS: When league business opens tomorrow, salary cap will be $58.044M, tax line will be $70.307M, and team minimum payroll of $46.435M.
   359. Bitter Mouse Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:56 AM (#4010898)
It'll be a three-way, in which Orlando gets the immortal Al Jefferson to replace Howard as their franchise anchor.


OK this made me laugh.

And no, I don't want Paul or Howard to go to LAL, but if it happens it happens. I am still in the brief shining moment where my wolves have a real coach, Ricky!, and Williams is awesome. Soon reality will hit, but for now the franchise is in the best shape of its life! (OK not really, but close)
   360. Bitter Mouse Posted: December 09, 2011 at 12:59 AM (#4010902)
Nice to see the post count climbing to a more respectable pace. I have been slumming on the other OT threads, but nothing replaces this thread.
   361. robinred Posted: December 09, 2011 at 01:00 AM (#4010903)
Memphis too


You mean New Orleans, but yeah. Although he and Kobe denied--vehemently--the Vanessa Bryant: Love Advisor thing that got berg and Joe C all happy last spring, Gasol admitted that he had personal problems that were bugging him.

If this really goes down--unless it is actually a prelude to a Howard deal, which I find very hard to believe--a lot of the fanbase will not be thrilled. Trading one excellent and one good big man and getting a back a 6'0 guy with knee issues, even if he is Chris Paul, will not go over well with many, and of course the team will be "One awkward landing by Andrew Bynum away from..."

Bynum also will be serving his suspension the first five games, recall.
   362. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: December 09, 2011 at 01:01 AM (#4010904)
To take off my Laker hat for a minute, if a team the NBA owns ships its Hall-of-Famer to the Lakers, it's going to look ridiculous for the league. And that's becasue it will be ridiculous- even if the trade itself is reasonable.

I can't believe that the other owners would allow it, and I can't believe Stern would allow it if they don't object. Actually, the second part I can believe, but not the first.
   363. andrewberg Posted: December 09, 2011 at 01:01 AM (#4010906)
Heh. Andrew, you think this is legit? ;-0


Sources say he's into goats.
   364. Maxwn Posted: December 09, 2011 at 01:02 AM (#4010908)
He did have a nice season, but he was horrid against Memphis too. Not just bad for Gasol, but bad, real bad. Both series were favorable match-ups for him... and he was awful. Based on a few of the things that came out, I would be surprised to see him in a Laker uniform again.

Grizzlies did not play LA in the playoffs.
   365. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: December 09, 2011 at 01:04 AM (#4010909)
You mean New Orleans

It's all blocked out at this point.

Gasol and Odom is a lot for a point guard.
   366. robinred Posted: December 09, 2011 at 01:04 AM (#4010910)
Sources say he's into goats.

So's your mom.
   367. The District Attorney Posted: December 09, 2011 at 01:06 AM (#4010913)
YOWZA!
   368. robinred Posted: December 09, 2011 at 01:07 AM (#4010915)
Gasol and Odom is a lot for a point guard.


I know--unless they are actually getting Howard and Paul, and I simply don't see how that would work.

And to go back to earlier point...Stephen Curry is a very nice player, but I would not hold this up for him if I ran the Warriors and it was on the table.
   369. smileyy Posted: December 09, 2011 at 01:12 AM (#4010917)
and of course the team will be "One awkward landing by Andrew Bynum away from..."


...having a backcourt of CP3 and Kobe Bryant.
   370. andrewberg Posted: December 09, 2011 at 01:14 AM (#4010920)
ESPN and Stein saying it is actually done. I guess they're thinking that Otis Smith will wait so long on Howard (or Howard will put up enough of a fit) that they have to flip him for Bynum and Bynum alone. Will be interesting to see if they choose that over Lopez+picks which I assume remains available.
   371. robinred Posted: December 09, 2011 at 01:17 AM (#4010921)
Will be interesting to see if they choose that over Lopez+picks which I assume remains available.


The Bulls will get into the Howard stuff if that is the case. Then we can use the hose on Moses.

guess they're thinking that Otis Smith will wait so long on Howard (or Howard will put up enough of a fit) that they have to flip him for Bynum and Bynum alone.


Or, again, they are trying to set up a three-way.
   372. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: December 09, 2011 at 01:17 AM (#4010922)
ESPN and Stein saying it is actually done. I guess they're thinking that Otis Smith will wait so long on Howard (or Howard will put up enough of a fit) that they have to flip him for Bynum and Bynum alone. Will be interesting to see if they choose that over Lopez+picks which I assume remains available.

Or a Clippers offer (like maybe the one they wouldn't do for CP3). Are their contracts close enough to do that trade straight up? Is DJ Mbenga going to start at the 4 and 5 for the Lakers on opening day?
   373. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: December 09, 2011 at 01:19 AM (#4010924)
Is DJ Mbenga going to start at the 4 and 5 for the Lakers on opening day?

I think Mbenga is part of the Kevin Love to LA deal. But there's always room for Kwame.
   374. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: December 09, 2011 at 01:37 AM (#4010934)
I don't get this at all for NO. I don't think they can flip Odom, Scola, and Martin for better young pieces and draft picks than Paul could have netted. If they keep them they're a team that's too good to get a top draft pick but also has zero shot of contending.
   375. madvillain Posted: December 09, 2011 at 01:37 AM (#4010935)
The Bulls will get into the Howard stuff if that is the case. Then we can use the hose on Moses.


Every time Dwight is asked about Chicago he downplays it. I think he really doesn't want to play in a cold weather city, which is weird because it's not like a regular person moving to Chicago that has to live there 51 weeks out of 52.

I also think he might have a bit of a rivalry with Rose, just speculation though. It makes almost too much sense though to have Deng and Noah be the center pieces of a Howard deal. Orlando gets two guys in their mid 20's to build around and both are signed to fair long term deals. I doubt they get a better offer, assuming Chicago would even offer that, as GarPax seems a bit too attached to "their" guys at times.
   376. smileyy Posted: December 09, 2011 at 01:40 AM (#4010938)
David Stern should come out and say "You'll all make more money with the Lakers back in the Finals, so shut the hell up and like it."
   377. robinred Posted: December 09, 2011 at 01:48 AM (#4010943)
Have gotten a few texts from friends about the apparent Paul deal...also can't log on to Forum Blue and Gold. Maybe it has crashed.

I do really like WATCHING Paul, so if this is real, that part will be great. But I will miss Gasol and Odom, and so will the team.

@ Matt,

Maybe. I suppose, as berg suggests, that Howard might now say, "Trade me to the Lakers." But the Bulls can put together a very solid offer.

And, I also want to say this and will repeat it if the Howard stuff is not BS and the Paul deal is real: I don't think it would be good for the league if the Lakers got both Howard and Paul, and that is the type of statement I rarely, rarely, make. I think the Lakers getting one of them is just fine--good, actually--for the league, although the Haters will yammer incessantly about it. But not both.

As a Lakers fan, I want it to happen, of course. But as an observer of the league, not so much.
   378. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: December 09, 2011 at 01:49 AM (#4010947)
David Stern should come out and say "You'll all make more money with the Lakers back in the Finals, so shut the hell up and like it."

Speaking of...

sheridanhoops: Highest revenue sharing contribution from any team will be $50 million, Stern said. He didn't name which team(s).


Obviously it's the Lakers.

sheridanhoops: "This was watershed moment," Stern says in relation to both the labor deal and revenue sharing ($196 million). Six teams will get $16M each.


Owners voted 25-5 in favor of deal (no vote guesses anyone?).

sheridanhoops: Stern said over/under on "no" votes was 8 -- although he checked himself and said he knows not what that means because he doesn't gamble.


Players:

HowardBeckNYT: NBPA announces that more than 86 percent of players voted in favor of ratification, out of more than 200 who cast votes.
HowardBeckNYT: By the way, that means less than half of players who were eligible actually voted.
HowardBeckNYT: RT @JJRedick47: That's disturbing. RT @HowardBeckNYT: By the way, that means less than half of players who were eligible actually voted.
HowardBeckNYT: RT @JJRedick47 Voting on the CBA was electronic. Took me 12 seconds. I'd hate to see the turnout if we had to do it in person.
   379. smileyy Posted: December 09, 2011 at 01:55 AM (#4010953)
I don't think it would be good for the league if the Lakers got both Howard and Paul, and that is the type of statement I rarely, rarely, make. I think the Lakers getting one of them is just fine--good, actually--for the league, although the Haters will yammer incessantly about it. But not both.


100% agree.
   380. madvillain Posted: December 09, 2011 at 02:06 AM (#4010961)
Robin, what are your thoughts on the PG situation now with LA? I am a Michigan fan so I'm curious if Darius Morris is the backup or if they plan on keeping Fisher around and grooming Morris to take over the backup duties next year. Or, hell, this could just mean Morris is SOL.
   381. smileyy Posted: December 09, 2011 at 02:16 AM (#4010965)
I'm surprised how excited I am for CP3 on the Lakers.
   382. robinred Posted: December 09, 2011 at 02:23 AM (#4010967)
Robin, what are your thoughts on the PG situation now with LA?


Assuming the Paul deal is for real (and it seems to be):

Incredibly enough, Fisher has two more player options and Blake has three years left on his deal. Overcommitting to role players is a Kupchak tradition.

I also think that they will save the amnesty card--because they might have to use it on Kobe in 2013-14. Yes, I know: people would mark Buss for assassination, etc. But it could happen. If they decide not to go that way, this may mean that Blake, rather than Walton, gets cut right now. Fisher will be on the team, and Paul, of course, is a guy that Fisher cannot say word one in complaint about in terms of unseating him--as Fisher would have been inclined to do with a mid-tier replacemant.

As to Morris, my guess is that he will either start in the DLeague, or, perhaps, if the rules allow it, be included in a small trade for a frontcourt body.

Long-term, I think he is SOL in LA, but I do believe he will have an NBA career. He has been called a "poor man's Andre Miller" which doesn't sound that great, but Miller has actually had a hell of a run in the league--and is still around. I would prefer Fisher retire and they keep Morris, but at this point I think Morris will make the team only if Blake gets cut.
   383. Fourth True Outcome Posted: December 09, 2011 at 02:24 AM (#4010968)
I'm surprised how excited I am for CP3 on the Lakers.


I'm in a similar place. I'll be pretty upset if they get Dwight, but if the team runs with Bynum and whoever they get to run the 4, it could be a lot of fun to watch.
   384. Ignatius J. Reilly Posted: December 09, 2011 at 02:25 AM (#4010970)
Wouldn't the Hornets want to dump Okafor on the Lakers?

And wouldn't the Lakers kinds need him?
   385. madvillain Posted: December 09, 2011 at 02:26 AM (#4010971)
A guy on the Bulls' REALGM board is saying his sources say JRICH to Chicago is close. FWIW the guy is a 10 year board vet and just claims on this one he has some inside info. I have no reason to doubt him. I would be very happy with JRICH, I'd even give him the full MLE, but for no longer than 2 years.

As for Darius Morris, he has real talent. Can't shoot, but can play in transition, see the floor, and has ideal size to d up opposing PGs.

Nobody will see it unless they watch as much Derrick Rose and Michigan hoops as I do, but current Michigan frosh PG Trey Burke is a dead ringer for Rose on some of his moves. Burke is nowhere near the athlete Rose is but the way they use little deeks and ball fakes to get into the lane is eerily similar. Ford is currently projecting Burke as a late first rounder this year, which, yikes, sucks for Michigan fans. I mean, it's great he's so good already, it just sucks he might be a one and done.
   386. robinred Posted: December 09, 2011 at 02:35 AM (#4010974)
Can't wait to hear Henry Abbott's thoughts on the Lakers' crunch-time offense with Paul and Bryant on the same team.
   387. JC in DC Posted: December 09, 2011 at 02:40 AM (#4010977)
Congrats on the get, Robin. Imagine two months ago that there'd be a new CBA and yet SOMEHOW LA would end up with Paul. And Howard.

Yes, and Howard. I don't see how this works for LA unless Howard joins the team. IMHO, it's not a matter of "if", but "when" the Howard shoe drops. There's just no way you make this trade w/o getting Howard. What can LA win with Paul, Kobe, and Bynum's bad legs?
   388. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: December 09, 2011 at 02:44 AM (#4010980)
I think riots will break out in ORL if Otis Smith pulls the trigger on a straight-up Bynum/Howard deal. I've also heard as a variation the Magic also sending along Turkoglu and his ridiculous contract, which should only raise the price for LA - but what do the Lakers have left to deal?
   389. smileyy Posted: December 09, 2011 at 02:51 AM (#4010983)
I don't see how this works for LA unless Howard joins the team.


I don't wanna be a jerk, but, uh, consider optometry if you can't see how this makes LA better. It's a little ludicrous to say that the only way adding a top-5 guy to your team will work is if you can get _another_ top 5 guy as well.
   390. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: December 09, 2011 at 02:52 AM (#4010984)
A few reports that Scola would come to the Lakers, and not to NO.

That makes more sense dollar wise (from the Laker stand-point, they should have to take back more money I would think) but it really cuts into NO's return. I'd love it if it happened.
   391. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: December 09, 2011 at 02:55 AM (#4010985)
Oooh - Woj now reporting other owners are pressing Stern to kill the deal.
   392. Famous Original Joe C Posted: December 09, 2011 at 02:56 AM (#4010986)
####
   393. madvillain Posted: December 09, 2011 at 02:57 AM (#4010988)
I don't wanna be a jerk, but, uh, consider optometry if you can't see how this makes LA better. It's a little ludicrous to say that the only way adding a top-5 guy to your team will work is if you can get _another_ top 5 guy as well.


I don't think it's obvious this makes the Lakers immediately better, especially if they don't get Scola. Losing Pau and Odom and gaining Paul seems like a wash IMO. Sure, they have a deadly back court, they are also one easily tweaked Bynum knee away from having one of the worst front courts in basketball. I can't wait to see Kobe smirking after Mbenga fails to rebound a critical opposition miss in crunch time.
   394. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: December 09, 2011 at 02:59 AM (#4010990)
Put me in the Paul to LA isn't blatantly scary camp. I'm not seeing it, would love for someone to explain it but I think LA just took away their biggest advantage.
   395. Famous Original Joe C Posted: December 09, 2011 at 03:00 AM (#4010991)
Put me in the Paul to LA isn't blatantly scary camp. I'm not seeing it, would love for someone to explain it but I think LA just took away their biggest advantage.

That advantage that got them swept in the 2nd round last year? Right.
   396. Famous Original Joe C Posted: December 09, 2011 at 03:00 AM (#4010992)
Following up on [391], same source:

The NBA is now pushing New Orleans GM Dell Demps to pull the plug on the trade and keep Chris Paul, league sources tell Y! Sports.
   397. smileyy Posted: December 09, 2011 at 03:00 AM (#4010993)
CP3 will make a lot of players on the Lakers better than they actually are. Like rr said in [343], if they can use their resources to get an at-least competent PF, they'll be a better team.

I think people are underestimating the sucking hole the Lakers had in the backcourt last year, and they've filled it with a top-5 guy. Seriously, I live in Seattle, and I didn't have to vacuum for the first two rounds, because the PG spot sucked so bad for the Lakers.

Edit: I'm not saying it makes them scary. But it makes them better. They're not scary right now.
   398. Ignatius J. Reilly Posted: December 09, 2011 at 03:02 AM (#4010997)
Whatever result--it's more bad PR for the NBA.
   399. robinred Posted: December 09, 2011 at 03:03 AM (#4010999)
It's a little ludicrous to say that the only way adding a top-5 guy to your team will work is if you can get _another_ top 5 guy as well.


Well, look at it this way: I think Gasol is generally considered to be among the Top 20 players in the game, and Odom is considered to be among the Top 40. Gasol is about 6'11", Odom is about 6'10", and both of them have a lot of skills. They have been not key, but INDISPENSABLE, pieces of a team that has made the Finals three times in four years, won the title twice, and won 57 games again just last year. The endless maelstrom of bullshitt and emotion that surrounds the Lakers often makes it hard to see their flaws--and their strengths.

Yes, they are both over 30, but they apparently have both been traded today for a guy who is about 6' tall and has knee issues, and the "don't trade big for small" maxim exists for a reason. Paul is great, but he isn't LeBron James or Dwight Howard.

And the reax of the fanbase show it. The people who are giddy are such simply because they believe that this means Howard is coming, too. Those who either don't think that is true, or aren't sure, have issues with it.

If Andrew Bynum had his (Bynum's) same skillset/talent level and Dwight Howard's health record, I would be pretty giddy, too. Even as it is, I think I would have pulled the trigger--this is Chris F'ing Paul we are talking about--but this deal works BETTER if it is in the context of other moves.
   400. smileyy Posted: December 09, 2011 at 03:04 AM (#4011000)
If the league scuttles the trade, and it brings down LA's wrath on the types of shitty owners that led to the NBA owning the Hornets, I'm ok with that.
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