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Friday, December 02, 2011

NBA THREAD DECEMBER: POST-LOCKOUT

With the lockout over, I estimate that there may be more than 10-12 Primates who want to talk about the NBA, and with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: fractional reserve banking, and Tim Tebow.

robinred Posted: December 02, 2011 at 12:26 AM | 3254 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: general

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   3001. Jimmy P Posted: January 30, 2012 at 05:17 PM (#4049757)
Anybody else here admit to being a lousy guy from the line? I peaked at 70% - normally in the low 60s. Inconsistent mechanics are a #####.

Never played anything but pick-up. I knew at a very young age that I did not have the necessary genes to play with a lot of my friends.

But, in gym class, we were tested on it. I was ~70%
   3002. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: January 30, 2012 at 05:37 PM (#4049779)
robinred - any thoughts on the Ramon Sessions to LAL rumor?
   3003. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 30, 2012 at 05:37 PM (#4049781)
i'm really looking forward to this stretch, though. i can't wait to see how this team stacks up against the top tier of the league, but i've gotta admit, anything less than 5-2 will be a pretty significant disappointment. if this team is as good as i think it can be, this is the stretch where they really need to start to prove it.

According to BB-REF, they have had the easiest schedule so far by a decent margin.

I'm not letting this get buried at the bottom of a page. It helps 6 of those 7 are at home.

EDIT: And what a time to catch the Magic. What a mess (Hollinger talked about them today).
EDIT 2: I can't believe Larry Hughes is on the Magic.
   3004. robinred Posted: January 30, 2012 at 05:43 PM (#4049789)
robinred - any thoughts on the Ramon Sessions to LAL rumor?


Didn't know there was one. People have talked about Sessions a lot in the LakerLand blogosphere, but the conversations usually end when people remember that Dan Gilbert owns the Cavs. But perhaps that is not actually a factor.
   3005. steagles Posted: January 30, 2012 at 05:49 PM (#4049797)
It helps 6 of those 7 are at home.
the fact that 6 of the 7 are at home is a big reason why i'm expecting this stretch to go so well.


   3006. steagles Posted: January 30, 2012 at 05:55 PM (#4049806)
Tom Moore: #Sixers Expect Battie to start at center tonight, even if Vucevic plays. He's a game-time decision. Hawes is out for eighth straight game. about 19 minutes ago
tony battie versus dwight howard.

this...may not go well.
   3007. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: January 30, 2012 at 06:07 PM (#4049828)
2012: LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Derrick Rose, Dwyane Wade, Dwight Howard, Dirk Nowitzki, Kobe Bryant (superstars); Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook, Carmelo Anthony, Kevin Love, LaMarcus Aldridge (franchise guys); Rajon Rondo, Blake Griffin, Steve Nash, Manu Ginobili (entertaining All-Stars); Tony Parker, Deron Williams, Paul Pierce, Rudy Gay, Chris Bosh, Zach Randolph, Marc Gasol, Pau Gasol, Amar'e Stoudemire, Andrew Bynum (All-Stars); Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan (tenured All-Stars); Ricky Rubio, Kyrie Irving, Stephen Curry (entertainment X-factors); John Wall, Tyreke Evans, Ty Lawson, Eric Gordon, DeMarcus Cousins, Andrea Bargnani1 (up-and-comers); Kyle Lowry, Monta Ellis, Andre Iguodala, Josh Smith, Tyson Chandler (have to be mentioned).
-Simmons
STOP THAT!

   3008. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 30, 2012 at 06:13 PM (#4049836)
I hate, HATE, HATE his stupid, recurring tournament for the 8 seed idea. I also am extremely irritated by his constant repeating that *everyone* knows it should be fewer games; he's a shill for the owners, how can he so easily gloss over the money issue to losing that many games?
   3009. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: January 30, 2012 at 06:19 PM (#4049842)
[3008] Agreed on all counts. I don't have an interest in watching the 16 worst teams in the league battle it out for the last 2 playoff spots. I also don't understand why a bad team would be especially motivated to a.) lose out on any chance in the Lottery and b.) sign up for a 1st round demolishing. I suppose there is some financial windfall, but still...don't think it's nearly the motivating factor Simmons seems to.
   3010. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 30, 2012 at 06:26 PM (#4049857)
Anybody else here admit to being a lousy guy from the line?

I was probably in the ~65-70% range when I played all the time (high school). Though I've started playing pickup again over the past year, what little shooting touch I had seems to have left me in the intervening 10-12 years, and I'd bet I'd be closer to 50% (maybe worse) now.

A shame we can't have some sort of thread pickup game.
   3011. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: January 30, 2012 at 06:27 PM (#4049860)
In the final two minutes regulation or overtime of the five close games, teams made just 39 percent of their shots. They were even bad from the free throw line, hitting just 62 percent. Both numbers are well below average.

Especially interesting, though, is that through all those misses, a few guards were perfect. Kobe Bryant, Chris Paul and Jason Terry combined to hit all six of their field goal attempts and all seven free throws. Terry was the particular hero, finishing three-of-three from the field goal, and the same again from the line.


Abbott and Kobe should get a room already. It's clear he loves the guy.
   3012. kpelton Posted: January 30, 2012 at 06:32 PM (#4049865)
I generally hit around 25% of my free throws. I have wondered in the past how this shapes my view of foul shooting compared to the rest of the basketball-playing world.
   3013. Jimmy P Posted: January 30, 2012 at 06:32 PM (#4049866)
Actually, I kind of think it should be shorter. I don't think 72 games is a bad season. I do think this is funny:

(News flash: Every player says, "I wish the season was shorter. It would be better for us." Why not listen to them? Don't you care about your product?)


Note how the players don't say "I wish we could get paid less" right afterwards. I know he thinks the players are basketball playing baboons, but they're smart enough to know that less games = less money.
   3014. Conor Posted: January 30, 2012 at 06:36 PM (#4049868)
I agree on the playoff the the 8th seed; it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. It's an extreme example, but in 2003, would you rather A) tank the season to improve your odds of getting Lebron or B) get swept in the first round of the playoffs? What am I missing here?
   3015. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 30, 2012 at 07:07 PM (#4049887)
Wow. This is a crazy story. from Hoopspeak.

First came the dead stepfather. Then came the part that hurt.

A few weeks after emphysema had claimed the life of Brad Wheeler — stepfather to Brian Wheeler — Brian got a call from his stepbrother to discuss the will.

Brad had bequeathed a substantial amount of money to each of his five biological sons and to two of his three stepsons, but to Brian, almost 30 at the time, he wanted to give nothing.

Bob White, the stepbrother who was acting as Brad’s attorney, explained to Brad that omitting Brian entirely could open the will up to a court battle; that Brian could argue a mistake was made and receive a sum equal to that of his siblings.

So naturally, Brad asked just how little he could leave.

“I told him it could be five dollars,” recalled a flabbergasted White, Brad’s stepson from a previous marriage. “He seemed to like that. He was like, ‘Oh, that will humiliate Brian!’ ”
   3016. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 30, 2012 at 07:17 PM (#4049893)
Meanwhile, an expansive Derrick Rose vowed to use his late-game misses against the Heat as motivation.

"Tonight," he said, "I'm going to try to go crazy."


Hmmm, that's not a very Rose-like comment. And yep, Deng and Rip are both out.
   3017. Jimmy P Posted: January 30, 2012 at 07:35 PM (#4049908)
Wow. This is a crazy story. from Hoopspeak.

He's a pretty fun announcer to listen to.
   3018. robinred Posted: January 30, 2012 at 07:47 PM (#4049915)
Sunday in AbbotTown:

Bryant does quite well in crunch time--as I said, feeds the bigs a couple of times, and when he does shoot, takes advantage of the matchups berg noted and gets into his range for pretty good looks inside of 15' and sticks them, rather than clanking 22-footers off the dribble. Struggling Lakers get a win on the road.

James has a bad day in crunch time at home against the team (which is shorthanded and missing the guy who usually checks James) the Heat must beat to reach their goal--misses a couple of heroshots, misses a couple of FTs. Heat wins anyway, but James looks bad enough that in this thread, which is mostly blissfully free of pointless Jamesbashing, a couple of people comment on it.

Abbott's take:


None of it means all that much.
   3019. Jimmy P Posted: January 30, 2012 at 07:55 PM (#4049921)
Abbott's take:

None of it means all that much.


These guys have to do it in the playoffs like Abbott's favorite Chris Paul has.
   3020. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 30, 2012 at 07:57 PM (#4049924)
   3021. Zipperholes Posted: January 30, 2012 at 08:51 PM (#4049950)
Howard's FT problems really annoys me. I know it takes more than just practice, but he's down to 46% this year How did he shoot 67% at 19 anyway? Maybe this is being unfair, but considering all the trade drama surrounding him I think the problem is concentration. If he's healthy, there is no reason for him to shoot this poorly.
I don't think most poor FT shooters really care to improve.
   3022. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: January 30, 2012 at 09:18 PM (#4049970)
I enjoy the heck out of Malik Rose as a color man for the Sixers ... he's been calling the bench guys of the Sixers the "Night Shift". With Lavoy Allen portraying a reasonable approximation of an NBA player these last few games, Rose has taken to calling him "The Applicant".
   3023. robinred Posted: January 30, 2012 at 09:27 PM (#4049981)
M Rose is great. Very funny.
   3024. Ebessan Posted: January 30, 2012 at 09:54 PM (#4049998)
Yeah, Malik's enthusiasm is totally awesome.
   3025. steagles Posted: January 30, 2012 at 10:31 PM (#4050027)
that would have been a lot more enjoyable if it ended about 15 minutes ago.


anyway, that little run at least broke the sixers cherry w/r/t games decided by fewer than 27 points.

and with the win, they've now beaten the 3 teams they're most likely to play in the first round of the playoffs (indiana, atlanta, and orlando).


really looking forward to playing the bulls on wednesday. that should be a hell of a game.
   3026. steagles Posted: January 30, 2012 at 10:47 PM (#4050039)
tmoorepburbs: #Sixers Collins: "Anytime I’ve taken over a team, I said, ‘Let’s beat teams we’re supposed to beat & see where we are with everybody else."
   3027. Zipperholes Posted: January 30, 2012 at 10:52 PM (#4050045)
This, linked in TrueHoop today, is incidentally written by a friend of mine: NBA Rankings: Cheesecake Factory Edition
#1 (2) Chicago Bulls [17-5]

Cajun Chicken "Littles"
Boneless Breast of Chicken Pieces, Spiced, Breaded and Fried Crisp. Served with Mashed Potatoes and Fresh Corn Succotash.

The best team in the league deserves the best item on the menu and fourteen pounds of chicken fingers definitely qualifies as tops at The Cheesecake Factory. One chicken stub alone wouldn’t cut it, but a whole army of chicken littles is the perfect metaphor for Tom Thibodeau’s hard-charging defensive brigade where no man is more important than the next (except for Derrick Rose, the biggest little on the team). Throw in some mashed spuds and that crisp corn succotash and you’ll see how everything on the plate meshes together like a team in perfect sync – even with injuries popping up all over the place.
   3028. robinred Posted: January 30, 2012 at 10:54 PM (#4050046)
that should be a hell of a game.
With the Lakers and Celtics on the downswing, CHI/PHI is now the BTF "Release The Kraken!!!!!!" matchup.
   3029. Maxwn Posted: January 30, 2012 at 11:03 PM (#4050054)
I miss having Z-Bo around to make the Spurs pay for playing Matt ####### Bonner.
   3030. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 30, 2012 at 11:04 PM (#4050055)
Hayward 0-8 has just missed two straight at the rim. Somehow the Jazz are only down by 4 despite shooting 31%.

EDIT: and while I do not like how Harris has played this year, Corbin is insane with his love of Watson. Watson came off the bench with like 4 minutes left in the 1st and is still in with the half about over.
   3031. steagles Posted: January 30, 2012 at 11:40 PM (#4050079)
OKC-LAC about to tip off on NBATV
   3032. andrewberg Posted: January 30, 2012 at 11:55 PM (#4050083)
Tonight is exactly the kind of night Beasley needs to keep having to drive up his superficial value so the wolves can dupe someone into taking him.
   3033. JJ1986 Posted: January 30, 2012 at 11:55 PM (#4050084)
Batum just knocked down 3 3-pointers in a row. Nice run.
   3034. steagles Posted: January 31, 2012 at 12:21 AM (#4050094)
Brian Mahoney: Wizards coach Wittman on the Bulls: “This is the best team that we have seen this season. They have the right guys to put around Rose." 1 minute ago

the sixers beat the wizards three times in the last 3 weeks by a combined 64 points. but, by all means, chicago's squeaker was much, much more impressive.

   3035. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 31, 2012 at 12:27 AM (#4050096)
Batum just knocked down 3 3-pointers in a row. Nice run.


But since he plays on the Blazers he leaves the game in pain grabbing his knee.

Jazz shot horribly, but outrebounding your opponent 51 to 37 (and 18 OREB to 5) makes up for a lot. Aldridge was on fire in the 3rd quarter, but pretty much non-existent the rest of the game. Credit to Hayward too. He came out before anyone else during halftime to practice his shot, and he scored 12 in the 2nd half, had a huge block in transition, then grabbed the ball on Miles' missed FT with a couple seconds left.
   3036. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 31, 2012 at 01:32 AM (#4050112)
Man, if you can watch it, the Clippers are giving OKC the business. And by "the business", I mean THIS.

EDIT: And another one. Durant evacuates.
   3037. steagles Posted: January 31, 2012 at 01:48 AM (#4050116)
Royce Young: OKC trails the Blake Griffin Killed Perks 90-70 after three. KD with 32, Westbrook 27. Rest of the team, 11. about 15 minutes ago
   3038. Manny Coon Posted: January 31, 2012 at 01:53 AM (#4050118)
2012: LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Derrick Rose, Dwyane Wade, Dwight Howard, Dirk Nowitzki, Kobe Bryant (superstars); Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook, Carmelo Anthony, Kevin Love, LaMarcus Aldridge (franchise guys); Rajon Rondo, Blake Griffin, Steve Nash, Manu Ginobili (entertaining All-Stars); Tony Parker, Deron Williams, Paul Pierce, Rudy Gay, Chris Bosh, Zach Randolph, Marc Gasol, Pau Gasol, Amar'e Stoudemire, Andrew Bynum (All-Stars); Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan (tenured All-Stars); Ricky Rubio, Kyrie Irving, Stephen Curry (entertainment X-factors); John Wall, Tyreke Evans, Ty Lawson, Eric Gordon, DeMarcus Cousins, Andrea Bargnani1 (up-and-comers); Kyle Lowry, Monta Ellis, Andre Iguodala, Josh Smith, Tyson Chandler (have to be mentioned).


Wow the Knicks have one guy the same tier as Chris Paul and another the same tier as Pau Gasol and another on the has be to mentioned list. Sounds like an awesome team! If only they also had Tyreke Evans or Monta Ellis! Good thing they don't have bum like Paul Milsapp!
   3039. tshipman Posted: January 31, 2012 at 02:07 AM (#4050119)
So I thought it was weird that Simmons listed Bargs at all. He's been sort of a joke for a while.

I looked at his numbers. As usual with Bargs, they're sort of superficially decent, but pretty similar to the rest of his career. Then I scrolled down to PER--he's listed with a 22.5 PER. Huge improvements over, say, two years ago, where his numbers look really similar, with the exception of adding 3 FTAs per game. 3 FTA attempts and makes per game is enough to vault a guy from joke to stud?

Really?
   3040. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 31, 2012 at 02:12 AM (#4050120)
Perhaps he's learned... The Secret. He's just keeping it to himself.
   3041. steagles Posted: January 31, 2012 at 02:17 AM (#4050122)
So I thought it was weird that Simmons listed Bargs at all. He's been sort of a joke for a while.

I looked at his numbers. As usual with Bargs, they're sort of superficially decent, but pretty similar to the rest of his career. Then I scrolled down to PER--he's listed with a 22.5 PER. Huge improvements over, say, two years ago, where his numbers look really similar, with the exception of adding 3 FTAs per game. 3 FTA attempts and makes per game is enough to vault a guy from joke to stud?

Really?
i assume the cause of this is the league adjustment. scoring and efficiency are all shot this year, and the fact that bargnani is as good as he's ever been, while everyone else is taking a dive is probably what's driving his PER improvement.
   3042. robinred Posted: January 31, 2012 at 02:19 AM (#4050123)
I agree strongly with Moses on Simmons' tournament idea. A single-elimination tournament with matchups like Bobcats (15) at Bucks (8) to decide who gets their asses kicked by the Bulls or the Heat in the first round? Does not appeal to me at all for several reasons.

And, if you have a team in the 8 spot that is actually pretty good, like last year's Grizzlies, and a balanced conference, like the West, it appeals to me even less.

   3043. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: January 31, 2012 at 05:23 AM (#4050147)
I just saw the Blake on Perk thing. Just...wow.
   3044. A Fatty Cow That Need Two Seats Posted: January 31, 2012 at 07:49 AM (#4050161)
the sixers beat the wizards three times in the last 3 weeks by a combined 64 points. but, by all means, chicago's squeaker was much, much more impressive.


holy smokes, the sixers played washington three times in their first seventeen games?? and three times in the span of ten days? haha
   3045. JC in DC Posted: January 31, 2012 at 08:52 AM (#4050171)
the sixers beat the wizards three times in the last 3 weeks by a combined 64 points. but, by all means, chicago's squeaker was much, much more impressive.


Please STFU.
   3046. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: January 31, 2012 at 09:56 AM (#4050199)
JC, it sounds like you are praying for the Bulls to smite the 76ers with a biblical fury. :)

The Sixers D was impressive last night until they stopped playing hard with 5 minutes left. Orlando had 49 points with about 5 minutes left in the game. I don't care that Orlando was missing Nelson and struggle offensively. To the Magic's credit they scored 20 points in the last 5 and change to make it a nail biter.
   3047. JC in DC Posted: January 31, 2012 at 10:00 AM (#4050205)
JC, it sounds like you are praying for the Bulls to smite the 76ers with a biblical fury. :)


Not the 6ers.
   3048. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: January 31, 2012 at 10:18 AM (#4050218)
LeBron's dunk over Lucas 3 isn't getting enough praise.
   3049. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 31, 2012 at 11:48 AM (#4050306)
I don't think most poor FT shooters really care to improve.

I think this is horribly overstated. I'm sure there are some that fit into this category.

the sixers beat the wizards three times in the last 3 weeks by a combined 64 points. but, by all means, chicago's squeaker was much, much more impressive.

If all we're going to do is look at the final score, how the hell did the Sixers struggle with the Magic last night? They only won by 5 against a team that's losing by 20 points a game the last week plus. This is a dumb statement, even by your standards.

Snark aside, the Wizards are a different team with Wittman so far. They still suck, but they're trying harder. It was quite the noticeable difference from the first time they played the Bulls and JLIII drank Wall's milkshake. After the Bulls got up 20+, the Wiz started pressing and the Bulls got sloppy. It wasn't the ideal finish, but did highlight a Bulls weakness - lack of ballhandlers. Korver played 44 minutes at SG last night, and he can barely dribble. When they were able to force the ball out of Rose's hands, it got interesting. The Bulls will likely be without Deng and Rip again tomorrow night, so Philly should press - they've got the legs and the athletes to cause the Bulls all sorts of problems. The game obviously means more to Philly, they still need a win to make people other than steagles notice them.

LeBron's dunk over Lucas 3 isn't getting enough praise.

It did on Sunday. After the game, when Lisa Salters asked him about it, said something about how Lucas wasn't that short. He's listed at 5'11", which isn't short for the general population. But in reality, that means he's either 5'8" or 9". So impressive, but still, he's one of the shortest guys in the league (Nate Robinson is shorter for sure, not sure anyone else is, assuming Earl Boykins isn't around anymore).
   3050. jmurph Posted: January 31, 2012 at 12:04 PM (#4050325)
So impressive, but still, he's one of the shortest guys in the league


Just to be clear, and I'm sure you'll agree, jumping over one of the shortest guys in the league to receive and covert a lob is still fairly impressive.
   3051. jmurph Posted: January 31, 2012 at 12:09 PM (#4050331)
Speaking of the Bulls, and I say this not to be a troll, I promise: I haven't enjoyed watching a good team less than I enjoy watching this Bulls team in a long time. It's purely aesthetics and I admit that it's probably just me, but I'm just crazy bored by Rose breaking people down on the dribble to get to the rim and draw a foul.

   3052. steagles Posted: January 31, 2012 at 12:17 PM (#4050337)
JC, it sounds like you are praying for the Bulls to smite the 76ers with a biblical fury. :)

Not the 6ers.
:)

If all we're going to do is look at the final score, how the hell did the Sixers struggle with the Magic last night? They only won by 5 against a team that's losing by 20 points a game the last week plus. This is a dumb statement, even by your standards.
after the first couple weeks, i'm pretty much considering anything within 20 as being a squeaker.
The Sixers D was impressive last night until they stopped playing hard with 5 minutes left. Orlando had 49 points with about 5 minutes left in the game. I don't care that Orlando was missing Nelson and struggle offensively. To the Magic's credit they scored 20 points in the last 5 and change to make it a nail biter.
hopefully that doesn't become a blueprint for how to play the sixers in the last 5 minutes. this team really needs to start hitting its ####### FTs.
   3053. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: January 31, 2012 at 12:35 PM (#4050354)
STEAGLES, they stopped running the offense in the last 5 minutes. They just milked the clock for 20 seconds and forced up lousy shots on many of those possessions.
   3054. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 31, 2012 at 12:39 PM (#4050357)
Speaking of the Bulls, and I say this not to be a troll, I promise: I haven't enjoyed watching a good team less than I enjoy watching this Bulls team in a long time. It's purely aesthetics and I admit that it's probably just me, but I'm just crazy bored by Rose breaking people down on the dribble to get to the rim and draw a foul.

Rose is averaging 6.6FTAs a game this year, down from 6.9 last year (but that really was much higher in the 2nd half of the year - it was over 8 in March/April and even higher in the playoffs)*. Last 3 games have been 10, 14, and 15, so it's trending up again. As has been mentioned elsewhere, the Bulls are one of the best offensive teams this year (they're now 4th if ORtg behind Den, Mia and OKC). So while there's a chance there's something else beyond aesthetics there with you, I will admit the Bulls aren't thrilling me with their offense this year even though there's been measurable improvements. They still have dry stretches, which are always tough to watch. And there isn't another player on the Bulls besides Rose who's "fun" to watch. So if you don't like watching Rose, I can see how painful watching the Bulls would be.

*ESPN's leaders isn't updated for yesterday yet, but he is among the league leaders even if he trails the top guys by a lot.
   3055. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: January 31, 2012 at 12:43 PM (#4050358)
Speaking of the Bulls, and I say this not to be a troll, I promise: I haven't enjoyed watching a good team less than I enjoy watching this Bulls team in a long time. It's purely aesthetics and I admit that it's probably just me, but I'm just crazy bored by Rose breaking people down on the dribble to get to the rim and draw a foul.

Contender Watchability Rankings
1. MIA
2. DEN
3. LAC
4. OKC
5. LAL
6. CHI
7. DAL

EDIT: After averaging .6 BPG as a rookie and recording 0 in his first 4 games this year, Blake Griffin hasn't gone more than 1 game without a block since and is averaging 1.14 BPG in those last 14 games including 8 in the last 3. Not saying this necessarily means anything, but I thought it was interesting given some of the early discussion re: his limitations as a defender. Also, post moves are still super rough, but boy can he jump.
   3056. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 31, 2012 at 12:43 PM (#4050359)
mySynergySports: This season, there's a 25% chance you get a Sportscenter top-10 dunk if CP3 finds Blake Griffin with room on the pick and roll.


Heh.
   3057. steagles Posted: January 31, 2012 at 12:49 PM (#4050364)
STEAGLES, they stopped running the offense in the last 5 minutes. They just milked the clock for 20 seconds and forced up lousy shots on many of those possessions.
it's not running the offense that's worrying about that stretch, it's the 5 offensive rebounds they allowed to ryan anderson and the team's utter inability to hit 2 consecutive FTs in crunch time.


the team is 15-6, so it's not exactly like i'm sweating them finishing above .500. it's just that i want them to do more than just finish with a pretty record, and i think these deficiencies repeatedly showing up is mildly concerning.
   3058. jmurph Posted: January 31, 2012 at 12:53 PM (#4050369)
Moses:

Absolutely, I don't mean to imply ineffectiveness- they're very good, and Rose, specifically, is very good. It's just not my bag.

On the trend upwards in his free throws- it's obviously fair to point out that Deng has been out recently, which probably has an impact on those numbers.

   3059. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: January 31, 2012 at 01:00 PM (#4050373)
On the trend upwards in his free throws- it's obviously fair to point out that Deng has been out recently, which probably has an impact on those numbers.

That might be some of it, but given how quick the turnaround has been between Rose acknowledging he hasn't been aggressive enough and Rose taking a ton of FTs has been over the last couple seasons...I think it's mostly just Rose. Sometimes he falls into bad habits (avoiding contact) but when he recognizes it he immediately corrects it. Really impressive.
   3060. steagles Posted: January 31, 2012 at 01:17 PM (#4050387)
Contender Watchability Rankings


i'd just like to point out that basketball reference has the sixers at a 28% chance of winning the eastern conference and a 16% chance of winning the NBA finals.


   3061. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 31, 2012 at 01:18 PM (#4050388)
NJ, that and the toe injury. He said yesterday it wasn't hurting him anymore.
   3062. The Essex Snead Posted: January 31, 2012 at 01:22 PM (#4050392)
I'd just like to point out that Basketball Reference shows the Sixers have beat only 3 teams with a winning record so far in 2012: Indiana, Atlanta, and (last night) Orlando.
   3063. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 31, 2012 at 01:29 PM (#4050396)
And they beat Indy when they had two starters out.
   3064. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 31, 2012 at 01:31 PM (#4050399)
i'd just like to point out that basketball reference has the sixers at a 28% chance of winning the eastern conference and a 16% chance of winning the NBA finals.
Really? I won't even give them double-digit odds on them reaching the Finals, much less winning them.
   3065. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 31, 2012 at 01:32 PM (#4050400)
I'd just like to point out that Basketball Reference shows the Sixers have beat only 3 teams with a winning record so far in 2012: Indiana, Atlanta, and (last night) Orlando.

Again, I'll point out Indiana was without Granger and Hill. Altanta was without Horford. Orlando was without Nelson and Richardson (and in the middle of some sort of tragic slump). I believe Philly was without Hawes in the ATL and ORL games.

How you feel about Philly as an actual contender depends on how much weight you put on scoring margin. They are absolutely destroying the terrible teams. They haven't had many chances to beat real teams, so there's only so much they can do about not beating a good team yet. It's a good sign to consistently win big, but how much does it really mean? As steagles pointed out before the year, they have a built-in advantage for this particular regular season - young, deep, and a history together. So that's part of why they're looking good most games. No one knows if that'll translate to the playoffs yet, but no one really expects the ECF to be anyone but Miami and Chicago (the best way for that to not happen is for Philly to get the 1 seed).

   3066. Bitter Mouse Posted: January 31, 2012 at 01:37 PM (#4050404)
i'd just like to point out that basketball reference has the sixers at a 28% chance of winning the eastern conference and a 16% chance of winning the NBA finals.


I, for one, am waiting for Ray to let me know it is a lock before I start setting aside money for playoff tickets.
   3067. andrewberg Posted: January 31, 2012 at 01:39 PM (#4050409)
they have a built-in advantage for this particular regular season - young, deep, and a history together. So that's part of why they're looking good most games. No one knows if that'll translate to the playoffs yet


That's a great point. Everything we know about scoring margin empirically is based on a system that we're not using this year. It might be more or less valuable, it might even be exactly the same, but we have no way to know, so those empirical models are no very applicable.
   3068. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 31, 2012 at 01:52 PM (#4050427)
Contender Watchability Rankings
1. MIA
2. DEN
3. LAC
4. OKC
5. LAL
6. CHI
7. DAL


(Checks standings)

Is Denver really a contender? They are deep, and they are a good team - but they really seem like the epitome (along with Philly) of the type of team that will succeed in the regular season (this season in particular) but doesn't have the front line talent they will need to get through at best more than a round of the playoffs unless they catch some serious breaks. I felt this way last year as well. I guess they are contenders in the sense that they will finish with a very good record and be a tough out for anyone they play in the postseason - but I don't think they have any real chance at making the Finals, let a lone winning the whole thing. To me, a contender is a team that can win the title. I don't see how Denver could possibly win the title this year as currently constructed. YMMV.

That said, they are fun to watch.

Agree that Chicago, while effective as hell, is often boring to watch. Rose does have his moments - his body control is really something to behold - but, as Moses pointed out and seems to agree with, there isn't another interesting player to a non-Bulls fan on that roster.

i'd just like to point out that basketball reference has the sixers at a 28% chance of winning the eastern conference and a 16% chance of winning the NBA finals.

Well, let's not start sucking each other's ***** just yet.


   3069. steagles Posted: January 31, 2012 at 01:56 PM (#4050432)
I'd just like to point out that Basketball Reference shows the Sixers have beat only 3 teams with a winning record so far in 2012: Indiana, Atlanta, and (last night) Orlando.

interestingly, if the sixers finish from anywhere from the 3-6 seeds, the three teams they're most likely to face are indiana, atlanta, and orlando.
they have a built-in advantage for this particular regular season - young, deep, and a history together. So that's part of why they're looking good most games. No one knows if that'll translate to the playoffs yet


That's a great point.
there were actually 5 parts to that. they're young and deep, but they're also very experienced, very athletic, and they have the whole continuity thing going for them.

this season is basically perfectly set up for them to make a huge run.
   3070. andrewberg Posted: January 31, 2012 at 02:06 PM (#4050443)
this season is basically perfectly set up for them to make a huge run.


REGULAR season.

We have essentially no idea if that will translate at all to the playoffs or if we go back to the regular postseason secret sauce.
   3071. steagles Posted: January 31, 2012 at 02:19 PM (#4050461)
REGULAR season.

We have essentially no idea if that will translate at all to the playoffs or if we go back to the regular postseason secret sauce.
i'd agree with that. but i'm still gonna enjoy this run for however long it lasts.
   3072. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: January 31, 2012 at 02:20 PM (#4050462)
About 1/3 of the way through the season, CotY looks like a Collins-Karl matchup. No idea on how the MVP is going to play out yet though.
   3073. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 31, 2012 at 02:25 PM (#4050470)
MVP should clearly be LeBron's at this point, but I don't think anyone really wants to give it to him again. I'm sticking with Durant, because it's his turn and they're going to have the best record in the West.
   3074. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: January 31, 2012 at 02:25 PM (#4050471)
They're outperforming my expectations, but I did pick Philly to win the division. I'd be very surprised if they made the ECF.
   3075. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: January 31, 2012 at 02:27 PM (#4050474)
I believe Philly was without Hawes in the ATL and ORL games.


Vucevic was out for ORL too (well, he dressed but DNP). The Sixers beat the Magic with Tony Battie, Elton Brand and Lavoy Allen taking turns on Dwight Howard. Brand was surprisingly effective.
   3076. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 31, 2012 at 02:29 PM (#4050475)
After the Celtics recent run (before the Cavs loss anyway), I was starting to wonder if they'd storm back and win the division. I still don't think they care that much and don't have the legs to try and do that, but I'm not ready to concede that division to Philly (although I was clearly way off in saying the Knicks would win it).
   3077. jmurph Posted: January 31, 2012 at 02:33 PM (#4050478)
I think roughly the only thing I've been right about so far this season was the Knicks not being as good as many expected (I had OKC winning the west but I'm pretty sure 100% of us did, so I'll take no credit there).
   3078. steagles Posted: January 31, 2012 at 02:41 PM (#4050486)

About 1/3 of the way through the season, CotY looks like a Collins-Karl matchup.
not that my opinion on this would necessarily be impartial, but i'd hope collins gets the nod.

Brand was surprisingly effective.
i think that's selling him short. he's been really stout for them in the post when he's been given the task. but last night was one of his most impressive performances.
   3079. andrewberg Posted: January 31, 2012 at 02:42 PM (#4050487)
About 1/3 of the way through the season, CotY looks like a Collins-Karl matchup. No idea on how the MVP is going to play out yet though.


A lot of it comes down to narrative, but for context:

Win Shares
1. LeBron James-MIA 5.1
2. Kevin Love-MIN 4.4
3. Derrick Rose-CHI 3.5
4. Tyson Chandler-NYK 3.5
5. LaMarcus Aldridge-POR 3.4


Win Shares Per 48 Minutes
1. LeBron James-MIA .329
2. Kevin Love-MIN .257
3. Ryan Anderson-ORL .254
4. James Harden-OKC .252
5. Derrick Rose-CHI


Player Efficiency Rating
1. LeBron James-MIA 33.3
2. Kevin Durant-OKC 26.9
3. Kobe Bryant-LAL 26.6
4. Kevin Love-MIN 26.1
5. Paul Millsap-UTA 25.5


Simple Ratings for some top guys
James- 15.8
Love- 8.5
Kobe- 12.8
Durant- 13.6
Howard- 12.3 (Anderson- 14.8)
Rose- 8.3
Paul- 10.0
Millsap- 10.4
Aldridge- 12.2
   3080. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: January 31, 2012 at 02:59 PM (#4050505)
Dumb question:

The pick the Knicks gave to the Rockets in the T-Mac deal is Top 5 protected for '12 with Houston retaining the rights to our first round pick through like '16 or so. Am I correct in understanding that that means if the Knicks get a Top 5 pick they do get to keep that pick and, Houston then retains the rights to our next first round pick until '16?

EDIT: Pretty sure I'm right now that I wrote it out. Commence tanking.
   3081. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: January 31, 2012 at 04:17 PM (#4050551)
Simmons:
It's the NBA's biggest hair controversy since Rick Barry wore a wig during the 1975-76 season.4 How does Boozer suddenly have Shane Battier's hairline? Is he coloring it in? Did he get miniature plugs? Is he wearing the first ever shaved-head toupee? Did he think we wouldn't notice? Did he do it to throw Bulls fans off the whole "Why didn't we amnesty Carlos Boozer?" question? And why haven't my bald buddies on PTI become the Woodward and Bernstein of this story? You know something serious is happening when you Google "Carlos Boozer" and the fourth-suggested result is "Carlos Boozer hair." As a reader in Poland named Sebastian e-mailed me, "How is this story overlooked by American pundits? Wayne Rooney's hair transplant was a major story on this side of the Atlantic!" Totally agree.
Agreed. Any Bulls fan have an explanation?
Did anyone else notice that Westbrook started playing out of his mind the moment Oklahoma City gave him $80 million (and he knew he was staying there)? That HAS to mean something, right?
The Kobe to Simmons' Abbott.
   3082. Zipperholes Posted: January 31, 2012 at 04:43 PM (#4050573)
I don't think most poor FT shooters really care to improve.

I think this is horribly overstated. I'm sure there are some that fit into this category.
I'll admit, my opinion comes largely from reading about Rick Barry's experiences with NBA players. They are mind-boggling.
   3083. robinred Posted: January 31, 2012 at 04:58 PM (#4050586)
Simmons' massive blow job for Rubio and Love, and his explanation of his previous statements about Rubio, were worth a chuckle.

There were no Lakers or Celtics questions on this list; we will see what he comes up with tomorrow. I am sure NJ will link both it and tomorrow's Abbott post for us.

I also wanted to note that the way Paul runs that sequence on which Griffin got the throwdown over Perkins was, in its subtle way, as impressive as the dunk itself.
   3084. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: January 31, 2012 at 05:21 PM (#4050612)
I am sure NJ will link both it and tomorrow's Abbott post for us.

I can't tell if this is a burn or not.
   3085. robinred Posted: January 31, 2012 at 05:32 PM (#4050627)
I can't tell if this is a burn or not


Heh. Neither a burn nor a nonburn. No one forces me to click on Abbott and Simmons and complain about them.
   3086. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 31, 2012 at 06:01 PM (#4050670)
I can't tell if this is a burn or not.

Do you consider it a burn when the crazy man on the street corner yells at the voices in his head?
   3087. kpelton Posted: January 31, 2012 at 06:03 PM (#4050673)
I'll admit, my opinion comes largely from reading about Rick Barry's experiences with NBA players. They are mind-boggling.

I've never gotten the Rick Barry thing. (Actually, I get Rick Barry's thing. I don't get why people agree with him.) I know science has shown that the underhanded angle is more forgiving, and science is never wrong, but the argument largely seems to come down to "Rick Barry shot free throws underhanded and he was really good at it."* Well, Rick Barry was also really good at shooting jumpers, and he had two sons who were among the NBA's best shooters. It strikes me as likely that Rick Barry's success at the free throw line was more due to his being Rick Barry than his choosing to shoot underhanded.

Also, I don't know why, but it seems odd to refer to him as "Barry" as opposed to by his full name.

*And also Wilt Chamberlain shooting underhanded for like two weeks or something.
   3088. Zipperholes Posted: January 31, 2012 at 06:33 PM (#4050698)
I've never gotten the Rick Barry thing. (Actually, I get Rick Barry's thing. I don't get why people agree with him.) I know science has shown that the underhanded angle is more forgiving, and science is never wrong, but the argument largely seems to come down to "Rick Barry shot free throws underhanded and he was really good at it."* Well, Rick Barry was also really good at shooting jumpers, and he had two sons who were among the NBA's best shooters. It strikes me as likely that Rick Barry's success at the free throw line was more due to his being Rick Barry than his choosing to shoot underhanded.
First--as you acknowledge--as a matter of physics, it's a superior method, for several reasons. Second, I don't know for a fact that it would be better for everyone, or even for any individual player.

But the fact is they haven't tried it. Science has indicated that it works, and experience has indicated that it works. In my job, or any aspect of life, if I stink at a task, and not only do I not exhaust every method that has shown to be successful by science and experience, but in fact I thumb my nose at them--then I'm either arrogant, lazy or both.

It may be that Rick Barry was so naturally gifted that his style wouldn't work for others. But to dismiss it because that might be true is nuts. That's like saying nobody should even attempt Tiger Woods's swing because he's so gifted that it would therefore be futile.
   3089. andrewberg Posted: January 31, 2012 at 06:50 PM (#4050709)
It may be that Rick Barry was so naturally gifted that his style wouldn't work for others. But to dismiss it because that might be true is nuts. That's like saying nobody should even attempt Tiger Woods's swing because he's so gifted that it would therefore be futile.


I'd say it's more like saying it's not worth it to try to throw like Chad Bradford because it's very unlikely to work. Not every washout pitcher tries to submarine, or throw a knuckleball before quitting, and we don't rake them all over the coals for it.
   3090. Zipperholes Posted: January 31, 2012 at 07:06 PM (#4050720)
I'd say it's more like saying it's not worth it to try to throw like Chad Bradford because it's very unlikely to work. Not every washout pitcher tries to submarine, or throw a knuckleball before quitting, and we don't rake them all over the coals for it.
This would be analogous if Chad Bradford were one of the very best pitchers in history, the submarine style were shown to be more effective as a matter of physics, and many of these pitchers, when using their own method, were no better than the average rec league player.
   3091. andrewberg Posted: January 31, 2012 at 07:11 PM (#4050724)
On the other hand, Tiger's swing is not so drastically different from a conventional swing so as to be distinct to laymen. Would you tell a struggling hacker to emulate Jim Furyk?
   3092. steagles Posted: January 31, 2012 at 07:14 PM (#4050725)
among the many (many) things that the sixers do well, they lead the NBA in turnover %. the distance between them and the #2 team (UTA) is the same as the distance between utah and golden state, who happens to rank 20th.

but, something else that i noticed (and it was talked about prior to the season) is that the clippers are tied for 4th in turnover % this season, after ranking dead last in 2010-11. that's a fairly significant turnaround.
   3093. Jimmy P Posted: January 31, 2012 at 07:19 PM (#4050728)
I'd say it's more like saying it's not worth it to try to throw like Chad Bradford because it's very unlikely to work. Not every washout pitcher tries to submarine, or throw a knuckleball before quitting, and we don't rake them all over the coals for it.

Right, but they aren't increasing their team's chances of losing by not pitching differently (they'll get demoted well before that). Dwight Howard and Blake Griffin do lower their team's chances by being such horrible free throw shooters.

But, I came to accept long ago that a) they will never try underhanded because of the mocking they'll get from the media and players and b) usually they come up with better excuses to justify behavior - "He's got big hands" or "He hurt his arm as a kid" or something like that.
   3094. Jimmy P Posted: January 31, 2012 at 07:21 PM (#4050729)
but, something else that i noticed (and it was talked about prior to the season) is that the clippers are tied for 4th in turnover % this season, after ranking dead last in 2010-11. that's a fairly significant turnaround.

That's Chris Paul. He's very valuable.
   3095. madvillain Posted: January 31, 2012 at 07:22 PM (#4050731)
Chicago is boring as ####, I agree on that. Frankly, if Rose isn't in the game, or not playing, I find it hard to watch them. Rose though is worth the price of admission every single night. His forays to the hoop are artistry in motion, and his un-cynical approach wrt to the contact and the refs is refreshing.

________________________

I'm basically burnt out already on this season. Deng and Rip's injuries have put a damper on my excitement and essentially it's back to "Derrick Rose and 4 other guys hustling". I'm ready for April, bring on the end of the season.

I think it's stupid Deng opted not to have surgery. He could have had the surgery, got his legs back for a month in April, and been 100% for the playoffs. Now I have a feeling this damn thumb is limit his effectiveness all year.

_________________

On a side note, I saw NBA2k11 for $7 at my local used record place, and picked it up. What an amazing game. I am seriously addicted to "my player" mode. The presentation in that game is unreal, there are many times during gameplay where it feels like I am really playing an NBA game. I would compare it to Fifa in that regard, maybe it's not 100% simulation, but when it gets it right, it gets it right and you are hooked.

Anyone with NBA2K12? I've heard mixed reviews compared to '11, is it worth picking up?
   3096. Zipperholes Posted: January 31, 2012 at 07:29 PM (#4050736)
On the other hand, Tiger's swing is not so drastically different from a conventional swing so as to be distinct to laymen. Would you tell a struggling hacker to emulate Jim Furyk?
Depends. Is Furyk successful despite the hitch in his swing or because of it? If the latter, do laws of physics explain this?
   3097. andrewberg Posted: January 31, 2012 at 07:52 PM (#4050746)
It's hard to find a perfect analog for the FT thing because Dwight, Shaq, etc are excellent players who are abjectly bad at one facet of the game that is only tangentially connected to the rest of the sport, and maybe even at odds with what makes them dominant (raw power).

It kind of reminds me of John Daly saying that he would lose the timing of his swing if he lost weight. It's also similar to an elite golfer who can't putt. Do they all try belly putters?

I do not mean to say that all of these guys should refuse to try underhand free throws. In fact, I have always thought it would be a good experiment for a guy like Dwight. Still, I am in the skeptical camp in which I think the presumption ought to be that it will not make a bad shooter a good one. It might happen, but I won't bank on it.
   3098. Manny Coon Posted: January 31, 2012 at 07:55 PM (#4050747)
The physics of the underhand ft shot might be a little better, but if 7'6" Yao Ming can shoot 85% and 7' Dirk Nowitzki can shoot 90% overhand, the traditional method seems like it can work just fine even for tall players. It also seems like it should be easier to learn because it is so similar to their regular shot mechanics.

Often times the guys that really struggle are more suffering from a mental block as opposed to something physical, I wouldn't be surprised if many of the guys that are poor during game make them just fine during practice.

They also might be guys that can't consistently make a 15 ft shot in any circumstance, they just lack the skill, but get by because their play to close the basket is so good. These guys would benefit for working on both their regular shots and FTs and it would seem like keeping the techniques similar for each would like make things easier for them.

That's Chris Paul. He's very valuable.


Same tier as Carmelo Anthony.
   3099. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: January 31, 2012 at 08:06 PM (#4050753)
It kind of reminds me of John Daly saying that he would lose the timing of his swing if he lost weight. It's also similar to an elite golfer who can't putt. Do they all try belly putters?

I played with a Club Pro once who was a very good golfer, but could never score (putt) well enough to be competitive professionally (according to him, of course.) He was explaining to me that he had just played with an older guy who used a bizarre putter and putting stance that the Pro had not seen before. The old guy would stand facing the hole, ball at the side of his feet, and use kind of a side saddle approach with a long putter that was bent at mid-shaft. Almost like he was sweeping with a bent broom. I asked the Pro if it worked for the old guy and he said it did. I asked him if he tried it, he said no. He explained, only half-kidding, that he was afraid it would work, and if it did, he wouldn't be able to live with the fact that he would still never used that approach himself. The putting style was just too ridiculous for a player to admit he needed it.

Culture is a big deal in any profession. The sports world does not appear to be an exception. Just the opposite I think.
   3100. andrewberg Posted: January 31, 2012 at 08:14 PM (#4050756)
Culture is a big deal in any profession. The sports world does not appear to be an exception. Just the opposite I think.


On the brighter side of that same issue is the fact that coaches usually don't send in scrubs to intentionally injure opposing stars, or similar bits of "unacceptable" behavior that we chalk up to the portion of cultural pressure often called "sportsmanship."
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