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Illinois fan, I take it.
That deal makes me wonder if J Rich had any other serious offers.
so long as we're talking about sixers centers:
I think the Nets are going to have an uphill battle to dig into the Knicks market, but if they are able to pull off a Howard deal AND be more successful than this current Knick team, they can do so. At this point, the Knicks almost have a loveable loser/Cubs thing going with them having maintained relevancy far more than their on court accomplishments may merit. I disagree with whoever said the Marbury post-hype lasted longer than the Melo period did. Most casual Knicks fans I know legitimately thought that if STAT hadn't been hurt in last year's playoffs the Knicks may have made some noise. Now, with STAT presumably healthy and with the Chandler acquisition most of the stats guys are on board with this (potentially) being the best Knicks team we've seen in 15+ years (check out the excitement in the Knickerblogger discussion board).
I don't know any Knicks fans and am all the way across the country, but to me a more apt comparison might be the Dodgers. Wouldn't some Knicks fans be so fed up with losing and the ugliness of the Dolan ownership that they would jump ship to the Nets if they start winning soon after they move?
Is this to say Knicks:Nets::Dodgers:Angels (without the title/aughts sucess)? I could see that. As bad as the Knicks have been they had the NY and the '70s/'90s thing. The Nets have been terrible and their history is...Derrick Coleman, Kenny Anderson and Kim Kardashian's ex-husband? I suppose I could add Jay-Z, but the Nets could go 0 for 82 and he'd look at me like this #### gravy.
Exactly. I completely forgot this happened. I think more people in the tri-state area cared when the Sixers were in the Finals than when the Nets were.
In Brooklyn, it would be almost like starting a new team, and as NJ notes, the Nets don't have much history. If Howard and Williams won ONE title, it would be a gigantic deal. Williams is the type of player--and I think the type of personality--who works well with Howard.
The Nets could still change the name down the line; if they don't, I would go retro with the unis--go back to Dr. J era stars-down-the-side-ones, with more modern tailoring--like the Wizards just did with their unis. I think the road ones, with "Brooklyn" on the front, would sell zillions.
So, that has always made the most sense for Howard...but then I never thought the Lakers would get Chris Paul, much less then have the deal vetoed, so who knows what will happen next?
And, again, if the Lakers are going through with this Paul deal and the league approves (does it seem like that should be a 10-hour+ process? Not sure.)and Howard is not coming, then the team needs to get a big that can play some (Okafor or Scola) back in the modified version, for "basketball reasons."
a) A powerful international/national merchandising brand
b) Obviously a TNT/ESPN staple, particularly when they played the Knicks.
I don't know how I feel about that team. It seems like it needs a fair bit of help. They need upgrades at 3 positions (admittedly, the three easiest to fill positions).
Not sure how long that core group has together.
Sure. The Bulls and Heat are solid favorites in the East this year, no matter where Howard is. Boston is still #3 IMO. But over the next 3-4 years, FAs would be down with joining Brooklyn, and Prokhorov does not seem like a guy who will be afraid of the luxury tax. Also, according to the stathead types, the two worst starting positions in the NBA last year were:
Lakers PG
Nets SF
A competent SF + Howard would make that team much better in short order. Howard would actually probably have more impact on D for the Nets than on O--but he would still have a huge impact.
More importantly, Woj 1:2:
And Stein:
But...whoa. And Odom to Dallas? Chess game going on here if that is true.
ESPNLA has it up now.
Fanbase will freak...Howard requests deal to NJ, Paul deal off table, and Odom (and his team-friendly deal) will be helping Cuban and Co. offset loss of Chandler or will make a nice trade chip.
If this stuff is accurate, and they can't land Howard, BussChak needs a hell of a Plan C.
Then again, it has also been said that:
Ah, here's Stein now:
But I would have enjoyed Chris Paul in a Lakers uniform, wherever the deal led. I wish that(Rosenkrantz and) Gil-n-Stern were dead.
No, he has not been amnestied. And as of the last report, won't be. The Spurs whiffed on all the SFs (Butler, Battier, Hill).
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Magic are shopping Dwight Howard beyond just the teams of his choice
KC Johnson (Bulls beat) is saying the Bulls are planning on pursuing him. Not sure how, since it appears they can't trade Noah, and he would have have to be prominently involved.
Illinois fan, I take it.
Already forgotten about our Weber discussion from just a couple weeks ago? And just when I was starting to think you might have been right about the offense, the St. Bonnies game happened. Blah.
Odom (and his team-friendly deal) will be helping Cuban and Co. offset loss of Chandler or will make a nice trade chip.
That would mean the Lakers are getting a trade exemption, so that way they can take Hedo's contract back in a deal for Howard. I'm not sure Bynum and Howard can play together, but I would have to think the Lakers are still considering moving Gasol. Maybe this is part of a larger 3 team deal, but it would have to be close for the Lakers to pull the trigger on the Odom part (and even though he's a nice get for Dallas, is Cuban really helping the Lakers get Howard?).
The Hornets apparently want Odom. Maybe they figure that this trade helps them get Chris Paul.
I think they could have done that anyway, at least according to the trade machine. The fanbase's preferred deal for months has been Bynum and Odom for Howard and Turkoglu (not saying Orlando would have done that, mind you--just that Lakers fans wanted it) and according to the Trade Machine, it worked under the old CBA. Ditto Bynum and Gasol for Howard and Turkoglu (and Nelson) if we assume, as has been reported, that Orlando is insisting on Bynum and Gasol.
Nelson's deal is 8.6M/year and runs out in two years, before the tax kicks in, so the Lakers might be trying to bring him in along with Howard.
As far as Cuban, like I said, I think it's a chess game. My WAG is that Cuban thinks the Lakers will lose on Howard, and then Cuban himself will be ready to pounce on Williams or Paul, and maybe even Howard, in 2012. In the meantime, he will have a motivated Odom wanting to stick it to the Lakers. Pretty shrewd.
As to Buss and Kupchak, Jerry West threw players he liked overboard at the last minute to clear more space for Shaq. But none of those guys were nearly as good as Odom, and none of them went to the defending NBA champs. And Shaq WANTED to be here; Howard may not.
I feel a little bad for Paul, or as bad as you can feel for a rich NBA star in this situation. Assuming he really wanted to play out here, I think he got screwed by the owners.
That, too.
If Stern approved a Paul trade to Dallas after rejecting the Lakers deal, well, I would be a bit peeved, particularly after Cuban's speech about the CBA and his opposition to the Paul/Gasol/Odom deal.
If CP3 goes to the Clippers, Stern better keep Sterling on a leash, because that'll be a fun team to watch, until Sterling *($#s it all up.
Also:
There is apparently some dispute about whether the Lakers "pulled out" or "Stern said no again" is the best way to describe this.
Rumors about that the Clippers are now willing to include Eric Gordon in a Paul deal.
Wouldn't the Odom to Dallas deal have been there later?
____
A TPE for Odom was part of the original deal that Stern nixed, so that has probably been part of BussChak's thinking for awhile. As to what it means, what happens now, etc. here is what Brian Kamenetzky had to say:
I get BussChak wanting to reboot--the team is old, expensive, has issues and Paul and Howard are on the block. But it was still a good team last year, and it was good because of Bryant and the three-man big rotation. The problems came from the fact that the other guys mostly suck. Odom has his faults, but the Lakers just handed a very fine player who can still play and has a very team-friendly contract to a rival. Moves in which you are trying to look smarter than everyone else are often mistakes and are always risks.
All these events/non-events are working very much in OKC's favor. They have everybody in camp, working together, no personnel losses, no issues, Durant locked up. Chandler's departure, even though Odom will help Dallas, makes OKC the clear favorite in the West as of today.
next offseason. the TPE would give them that extra bullet. nbut i think that has more to do with odom's reaction to having already been traded once, and a bridge having been crossed, or some such.
also, with this, the cap hold for deandre jordan is just a little over 1mm. if LAC matches, there would be an added hurdle w/r/t trading for either howard or paul, since they'd have to match salaries, as opposed to using their cap space as a buffer for incoming salary.
People are saying this, and it may be the case. If so, though, I think it was a little hasty. Maybe Buss should have waited a day or two, talked to Odom, etc. No way to know from where we are. Buss may have just panicked and Cuban/Nelson took advantage.
The Clippers' offer is supposedly:
Kaman/Aminu/Bledsoe/Minn lottery pick
The three guys combined make about 200K more than Chris Paul does. Kaman makes 12.2M but his deal ends after this year. Bucher Tweeted that this offer in his opinion is in fact better for NO than getting Scola/Martin/Dragic/Odom.
I know June is a long time away, but I think 6/24 is kind of a "free day" for anything and everything people want to say about Kobe. We get it out of our system then, and move on.
I mean, the Odom move--wtf? either it's panic, or a reasoned decision to punt on this coming season, figuring what with the strike-shortened schedule it won't be part of Tradition anyway ;-)
Is this the first ever clone for prototype trade? Geneticist history made!
Jim Buss is going to get excoriated if this goes south on the Lakers, but in fairness to him, it is pretty easy to see the chessboard, as he probably saw it, now:
1. Demps doesn’t want Rondo.
2. Paul is unwilling to commit long-term to two orgs with a history of failure and given the CBA, so Gordon and Curry are not offered by LAC and GS.
3. The Lakers, lacking young assets, make the best offer they can: Gasol and Odom. They do this because the Lakers figure that Paul’s presence here would sway Howard to put his reservations aside and want to come to LA.
4. Howard would then go to Otis Smith and demand to be sent here, forcing Smith to take a Bynum + package, perhaps making use of the TPE.
Would it have worked? We will probably never know, but I think we should leave open the possibility that the Odom/Dallas thing is not so they can go after Howard, but, instead, to take one more run at Paul. We do know that the Howard NJ announcement came right after the Paul deal was killed.
And, if Smith said "no deal" or Howard preferred to go elsewhere, well, Buss and Kupchak have still replaced Derek Fisher with Chris Paul and have a few cards to play (the two TPEs, the mini-MLE) to try to shore up the frontcourt. Not a bad Plan B.
So, if this all falls apart and the Lakers crash, we should remember that they had a two-step plan and completed Step 1. Buss may be dumb, but he did seem to know what he was trying to do here.
If it is not out of your system by now, you need to take a laxative.
Am I crazy for thinking they could finish 3rd in the East? I think the Heat and Bulls are definitely better, and while I think the Celtics are the next best team, I could see this schedule really hurting them.
I really like acronyms and nicknames.
Well, if the Clippers deal is the one that lands Paul, NO will have a really, really bad team this season. They currently have 5-6 guys under contract and have brought in some DLeague/rookie types so they can practice. Aaron Gray and David West are gone. They would probably be looking at something like:
1 Jack
2 Belinelli
3 Ariza
4 Okafor
5 Kaman
With Bledsoe and Aminu as the first two guys off the bench.
But the other side of it is they would have the Minny pick and AFAIK their own--almost certainly two lottery picks. Maybe they land Anthony Davis and Harrison Barnes and those guys become All-Stars. Or maybe they get the 7th and the 9th picks and get nothing. Maybe they off-load Kaman's deal and get something good back. Or maybe they just wind up signing a lot of crappy veterans down the line to reach the salary floor and keep sucking.
On a simple level, though, I agree. I think the Clippers basically have two things NO should really want: Eric Gordon and the pick. The rest is mostly filler.
If he played for another team, I would probably hate him too. It is what it is. I respect his work ethic, talent, and cold-bloodedness.
Who gets MVP, Thaddeus Young, or Andre Iguodala?
plus he gets most improved player. iguodala gets defensive player of the year. young gets 6th man of the year. eurogoon will of course win rookie of the year.
jrue holiday will just have to settle for being starting PG at the all-star game.
but i've really come around on iguodala. that pact i made with myself (to not say a disparaging word about iguodala until at least after thanksgiving) after he helped the US national team win (whatever the hell it was that they won) last offseason really helped me appreciate all the things he actually does do to help the team win games.
i just think his prominent role in the offense is detrimental to the development of thad, jrue, and evan turner. but i've mellowed on that some, too.
Do what (Do what Toney Douglas Do) Did?
Is that right?
alternately--Do Waaa Diddy Wa Tony Douglas Do Dah
http://t.co/DAFBFDqr
about an hour ago
odom isn't a small forward, but i think there's at least a chance that he could pick up some minutes at C. dallas plays a high percentage of zone, and unless i'm missing someone on their roster, odom, because of his length, is their best rim defender. it would be a risk for multiple reasons, but i'm not so sure that wouldn't be their best alignment.
also, what's the consensus opinion of ian mahinmi?
also, there's this:
You just fouled out of the thread just by typing his name.
#2 in West, still very much a factor. Odom works well, as we have seen for four years now, on a good team as a "fill-in-the-blanks" guy.
ESPN reporting that Odom requested trade after Paul deal blew up.
2 years!
That's pretty much the lineup I've been saying I want to see. Maybe get the Beas in for AR more. Otherwise, miller and Webster are hurt, Johnson is likely to get burn at the two, and the others are situational players (match up with bigs or pick n pop). I am really looking forward to having a real coach this year.
This seems like a massive overrating of Marion. Odom probably *can* guard the 5, but he's basically the rich man's version of Shawn Marion.
on offense, sure. but the thing that has always kept marion from being just another guy is his defense. specifically, his ability to stay in front of smaller guys.
if marion could still shoot the 3, there might be an argument, but at this point, between that and the ballhandling ability, and the (possible) ability to play the 5, odom is by far the more valuable player.
moot, but iggy wouldn't have been obtainable under the odom tpe, too pricey.
i'm not even gonna address that point to point, except to say that this is why we can't have nice things. i am literally (as opposed to figuratively) ashamed to breathe the same air as this r-tard.
this is part 1:
Jeff Foster has had a nice little career. The lockout won't help him but he's got a shot to move up to third on the Pacers career games list this season.
I had to look this up because I didn't believe it. If your using the Amnesty clause to get rid of a $4 million dollar/1 year committment to get DeAndre Jordan, you're not doing it right.
On my lakers, I'm worried that we are acting a little bit desperate at the moment. It does feel like lil' Jimmy Buss has his sweaty fingers all over this Lakers offseason. If they can't pull off a deal with Howard, they might have put this franchise back 2/3 years.
but still, a 6'10 forward who can put up 10 points in 6 minutes has gotta have some value. if not to another team, then what's it hurt to keep him in our own back pocket. this team is not likely to have a 14th man whose potential to positively impact a game is greater than speights'.
that being said, for (2) second round draft picks, i'd drive him to the airport myself.
Edit: I misunderstood who was amnestying Charlie Bell. Disregard.
I think the Lakers had already decided that without major moves they would be good but not quite championship caliber, while being way over the cap. They'll pay the tax if they think they can win it all - but not for second round exits. So they tried to get a young player who is a big star who they could build around after Kobe, and who would be a great piece with Kobe for now anyway - but the league slapped them down. If it had gone through, either the Lakers would have gotten Howard and had a fantastic core, with a year needed to build depth, or they would still have Bynum who Buss the younger loves, giving them two players young enough to lead the team post Kobe.
Odom's an excellent complementary piece, but if they knew the Magic didn't want him, get something they might want (like cap space and a first round pick). The next day or two should settle a lot of things.
Lakers get--Howard, Turkoglu, Lee
Houston gets--Gasol, Duhon
Orlando gets--Bynum, Martin, Patterson, maybe a pick from Houston or Dragic?
I'd say Houston's not smart. Small scoring guards? There's lots of them. All-Star big men? Yeah, those are a bit harder to find. If Kyle Lowry is what stopped that trade, Morey deserves some criticism.
These would both be really solid moves for Indiana. A starting 5 of Hibbert/West/Granger/Mayo/Collison with George/Hansbrough/Hill/Foster as the main guys off the bench is not too shabby. Not good enough to overtake the Bulls in the Central, but I'd put them ahead of Milwaukee and could see them fighting for home court in the first round if things break right for them.
Alvaro Martin: http://Oregonian.com: #KurtThomas leaves the #ChicagoBulls as free agent, signs for two seasons with the #PortlandTrailBlazers. about 2 hours ago
I'm sorry to see him go. I'm guessing the 2nd year is what sealed the deal for him. I wouldn't be surprised also if the Blazers are offering a little more than the Bulls were - they are not going to risk going into the tax this year. #### you, Reinsdorf, and your $50mil in profits a year pocketing assface.
---
There's a lot of conflicting reports out there about the Paul to LAC deal. Some say Gordon is in it, others are adamant he isn't. That same thing applies to Bledsoe. If I'm NOH (or the NBA), I insist on Gordon. If I'm the Clippers, I insist on Bledsoe. ESPN says Paul has agreed to pick up his option for 12/13, which makes absolutely no sense since it's for less than what he'd get in a new 5 year deal he could sign with them. Supposedly that's what the Clips needed to include Minny's unprotected pick in the deal.
-Arenas (now a FA, supposedly wants to go wherever Dwight goes)
-Billups
-Charlie Bell (WTF, Warriors?)
-Hasheem Thabeet
Hollinger has Jefferson as amnestied by SA, but like I said, I thought last I saw he was still there. Anyone know for sure?
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