Will was opining on both topics last Sunday on ABC’s This Week Sunday morning gabfest, where he is a regular guest. Host Terry Moran wrapped up the show by turning it over to Will for his perspective on Major League Baseball at mid-season, just before the annual All-Star Game.
Baseball’s Golden Age. “Every baseball fan talks about the golden age of baseball and it’s always when he was about 12 years old,” Will said. “I have news for you. This is the golden age. Competitive balance is back. The Pirates haven’t had a winning season in 20 years, 1992. They have the best record in the National League, they have the best new ballpark, and they have the most exciting player in the National League in Andrew McCutchen in center field.
“But more important, the product is selling,” he continued. “People are coming out as never before. In 1955, the Brooklyn Dodgers win their only World Series. Great team. Robinson, Furillo, Hodges, Reese, all those guys. The whole city of New York loved them. They drew 13,500 a game. This year the average attendance in baseball is 31,000 a game and going up. This is the golden age.”
In fact, the Washington Nationals—not the Pirates—had the best record in the National League last Sunday, but I’ll cut Will some slack. After all, he did come up with some impressive stats on attendance. When it comes to baseball, he has a high on-base percentage.
Repoz
Posted: July 11, 2012 at 08:58 AM |
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1. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 11, 2012 at 09:21 AM (#4179920)Well, folks in the Bronx didn't like the Dodgers. Neither did the people around the Polo Grounds.
I think this would have been an excellent opportunity for a follow-up question regarding increasing income inequality in America, but, well, you know, liberal media.
It'll only be "tired" when people stop listening to him on political matters.
I agree. Will's political views are irrelevant to his point about baseball, which was a nicely put refutation of the usual "good old days" nostalgiafest.
I'm not even sure I agree this is the golden age of baseball. What is this world coming to?
Well, the real Golden Age of baseball consisted of 27 seasons scattered between 1923 and 2009, but then that's a point we can't expect everyone to appreciate.
Williams's chastising the writers in the ceremony before the game, his rather cool acceptance of the accolades heaped upon him--at 12 it may have been my first realization that sports figures could transcend the limitation of their niche by acts of personal (even heroic) will. I kept thinking, wow, he said that, he viewed all that as if it were a rag, a bone, and a hank of hair. Wow, what's going on? I didn't know at the time all that I later learned, but at that moment Williams was like a great literary figure.
RE: the climate, I think Atlanta's going to need a retractable roof for the Ted very, very soon.
I would be in favor of this, but Arthur Blank will get his new stadium before that happens.
In two years, ten years, twenty years, I'll have the same answer.
If you can't love what's right in front of you, life must seem like such a disappointment.
Similarly, the Golden Age of comics was 1967-1969. And the Golden Age of sf would've been ... hmmmm. Maybe 1973-1978.
It ended the day Clemente died? I could get on board with that.
At least you weren't born 12 years later.
I hadn't made that connection, but yeah, you're spot-on -- 12/31/72.
And this is half of why I chose '70-'72. The 1970 (my age 10 year, which in little league terms must've been my equivalent of 27) season was the only good year I had at the plate as a kid; otherwise, I was really good field (for a kid), really bad hit.
The other half is MLB-related. I was a Twins fan, & the '70 team was pretty darned good. The next two years they were sub-.500, but my favorite players were still around -- Killebrew, Oliva (albeit very hobbled, of course), Carew, Tovar. And of course a very young Blyleven.
Also, '72 marked the return from the near-dead of Luis Tiant, whom I loved. Too, about 99 percent of the autographs I've got I acquired during those years. \
Really good times, in retrospect.
Looking over the list of World Series participants for the last 10 years, I'll have to disagree with his implication that competetive balance issues have been a major problem.
What makes you say that?
The other NL central contenders might be better on paper, but they've all got their problems. What's more - the Pirates seem like they're actually in a pretty good position to plug underperforming holes. There ought to be a number of very reasonable 1B/LF/RF options available, as well as plenty of SPs in the last year of their deal. They've got some interesting pieces on the farm if they're willing to part with them.
I think the Pirates are closing in on 50/50 to be a playoff team.
Mine says 2001. Something about the first games he saw as a kitten just took hold in him. Or maybe he's just a roids worshiper who got all caught up in Barry's big year. Hard to tell, it all sounds like meow to me.
I was a 12-yr-old Mets fan in 1973.
You've GOTTA BELIEVE that was the golden age of baseball...
Since then, well, various pieces of metal, only a few of them precious. 1994 was awful in baseball terms, but it was also the year I met my wife. 2006-present, I guess, is a Bronze Age: personal/professional lives strong, hitting my 40s, Tigers winning again. I'll take it.
For what it is worth-ESPN has them at 72% and baseball prospectus at 40. I was never sure what either of them were doing, to tell you the truth.
We missed baseball coming off the strike. Mark McGwire, Pedro, Cal Ripken, Randy Johnson, Sox-Yankees rivalry renewed and not yet tired out, Greg Maddux, Roger Clemens, some of the most incredible and legendary World Series matchups of all time, Subway Series, Mariano Rivera.
After '03 it started going haywire with Bonds and interleague and steroids and all of that. Discuss.
SG's last playoff odds(includes games through July 4th) had them at 45.8%.
1927 - when Ruth hit 60 HRs (he was 32, I was negative 32 years old at the time)
1932 - Ruth called shot
1934 - Gas House Gang
1938 - Hartnett's "Homer in the Gloaming"
1939 - Gehrig "Luckiest Man" speech
1941 - Joltin' Joe's streak and Ted hits .406
1946 - Players back from the war and Bob Feller is unhittable
1947 - Jackie!
1951 - Willie & Mickey are rookies! How freakin' cool is that!
1951 - The Giants Win the Pennant! The Giants Win the Pennant!
1954 - Willie makes The Catch
1956 - Larsen's perfecto and Mickey's favorite year
1957 - Stan the Man still has it, Ted makes another run at .400 at age 39, Mickey's best year, Hammerin' Hank emerges
1960 - Maz! I am one and Stengel is done!
1961 - M&M Boys (yay! I'm in positive ages now!)
1962 - Maury Wills brings the SB back into vogue and even changing coasts the Dodgers and the Giants are still the most heated rivalry in baseball history
1965 - Koufax!
1966 - F Robby does the best F.U. by a player ever to a former GM thinking he was over the hill
1966 - Also my introduction, at age 7, to Strat-O-Matic baseball - loved the cards for the '65 Twins, especially Bob Allison's card - I couldn't figure out how a guy with a .233 batting average could do so much damage! (Lots of BBs and HRs - unknowingly my introduction to SABRmetrics)
1967 - YAZ! I was 8 and #8 had the best.year.ever!
1967 - Also the year my dad took me to AS game at Anaheim Stadium (thanks, dad!)
1968 - Year of the Pitcher and the best Topps set ever (loved the brown dotted border)plus the exciting World Series! Why didn't Brock slide?
1969 - I was ten and the Mets were...amazin!
1970 - Brooks Robinson! My 6th grade teacher actually brought a TV into our classroom during the WS (still some day games in those days)
1971 - Roberto puts on a clinic in the WS (I was 12!)
1974 - Aaron breaks Ruth's record
1975 - Best WS Ever (up to that time)
1976 - Big Red Machine rolls again! Only team ever to lead league in every major offensive category
1977 - Carew's run at .400, Reggie becomes Mr. October
1979 - Still have no idea how Winfield led league in RBIs on that crummy Padres team but it sure was fun to watch!
1980 - George Brett has the hottest summer I've ever seen. Was actually batting under .250 in late May before going on a 4-month tear (batting about .450 over that stretch) to almost hit .400
1980 - Rickey! steals 100 bases and this was the first time I felt I was watching a HOFer from the earliest point of his career and could appreciate the whole story developing!
1982 - Robin Yount matures, Ripken arrives, the SS position is changing and I'm introduced to Bill James!
1983 - saw Yaz' last appearance in Anaheim (to a chorus of boos when he was intentionally walked) and Johnny Bench's last appearance in SD (he received a standing ovation even after he struck out)
1984 - 9/17/84 - I am there to see Reggie!'s #500
1984 - Padres go to WS for first time
1984 - Hidden Game of Baseball introduces me to Pete Palmer and Linear Weights - people forget just how game-changing this was at the time
1985 - Rickey/Mattingly are everywhere
1986 - Eric Davis is electrifying plus all the rookies (Wally World, Canseco, Inky, etc.)
1986 - Poor Bill Buckner, had a pretty good career but this is all people remember him for...
1987 - Big Mac arrives
1988 - Orel! Was there to see him pitch Shutout in WS at Dodger Stadium
1989 - Got to take my dad to AS game at Anaheim Stadium, Nolan's return to AL and Bo knows...plus arrival of Jim Abbott, truly inspirational, especially when other teams tried to bunt on him...
1989 - Went to HOF for first time, saw induction cermony of Yaz and Johnny Bench, met and chatted with Harmon Killebrew and Cool Papa Bell (on the street out for an evening stroll)
1990 - Got married, went to Wrigley/Old Comiskey/Cooperstown on honeymoon (thanks, babe!)
1991 - Worst to First WS Braves/Twins - obviously game 7 left a bit of an impression on a few baseball writers...
1995 - Ripken's streak passes Gehrig (22 min standing ovation)
1996 - Caminiti and Pads win division title
1996 - First trip to Fenway at a conference
1997 - Tony Gwynn talks to Ted Williams and it shows
1998 - Mac & Sammy Show, Padres in WS
1998 - Heard "Hell's Bells" over loudspeakers at Qualcomm Stadium for first time when Trevor came in...got to be a cliche after a while but that first time sent chills up my spine...
2001 - Barry Bombs away, Albert arrives...
2001 - Rickey!'s 3000th hit comes in Tony Gwynn's last game and I was there...
2002 - Halos win first WS!
2004 - Down 0-3, Sox reverse the Curse
2005 - Other Sox team erases ghost of Black Sox
2005 - Managed to turn a conference in NY into trips to Yankee Stadium and Shea - had to explain to Yankees fans who all the people were in Monument Park (who hasn't heard of Ed Barrow? Without him there is no Yankees dynasty)
2007 - In Cooperstown for Gwynn/Ripken induction!
2011 - At ceremony for retiring Trevor's jersey (#51), Brian Johnson of AC/DC honors him...
2012 - Bryce Harper and Mike Trout arrive on the scene, is this cool or what?
See, the Golden Age is whatever age you are whenever magical moments are happening...
phredbird - nickel packs of topps baseball cards...only down side to that was the worst gum ever invented...
Unless they were a quarter, in which case they were DC 80-Page Giants (pretty much my favorite comics ever, in general) or Marvel Annuals (one of which, Sgt. Fury Annual #4, is my favorite single issue, period), which was even better.
D.C. Sports Bog: George Will made historical flashcards for the Nats
In that era, most American families earned $5-10K, had one TV (black & white), one car and one phone. Not so much of a golden age if you had to earn the money your kids spent on comics.
I've got to say that I love the notion of great, dominant players. We've got a few guys vying for that status right now but Pujols seems the only one really deserving of it since Bonds retired -- maybe Verlander -- so I'm hoping he can have an Aaron-ish or at least Robinson-ish 30s.
I'm a little worried about the increasing "specialization" in baseball. It's still little things and the game hasn't changed to any substantial degree so I'm not panicking. But the trend evidenced by greater reliever usage, increased shifting and whatever things the various FX systems uncover may shift it into more of a football-type sport.
You mean we'll have 47 man rosters with offensive and defensive platoons, and pitching changes every inning? That would be really boring.
Wait wait wait. I only just noticed. THIS thread brings Rasky out of the woodwork?
Sorry, Lassus, been real busy with work and personal life. Have dropped out of chatter, will try to swing by one of these days. I see that Sam doesn't post as frequently anymore either.
Still check into btf once in a while, but definitely not as often as I used to. Lassus, hope all is well with you and the other Mets Primates.
Hint: The movie came out before the song.
Seriously. I was watching some matchup last night – Strasburg pitching to Fielder, IIRC – and the length of their pants legs was disturbing. I kept being certain that some of those guys were going to trip across the hem of their own garment. The amount of fine calibration required to keep the hem just barely from scraping the ground at the heel must keep some of them up all night adjusting their belts. No wait, I must erase the mental image of Prince Fielder adjusting his belt.
Anyway, I was 12 in 1971, like several others who have reported, and it was probably the year I followed baseball most fanatically. It was difficult to perceive it as a Golden Age, though, because so much was changing so quickly in the sport, and we were constantly being told that the Golden Age was past. Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio, that sort of thing. But the age was not entirely over. Willie Mays got off to an incredible start that season. (For a long time I had a clipping of him and Bobby Bonds colliding while Mays made a catch in the outfield; come to find on looking it up that it happened in 1970, but I must have looked at that clipping quite a bit early that year as I contemplated Willie Mays.)
Edit: and I now realize I was still 12 for the first few weeks of the 1972 season … the weeks of the first player strike. Some Golden Age :)
and flying to the stack at the end of the street
to see what he did
As for 1992 itself . . . well, it **was** a pretty good year. A cresting Blue Jays dynasty, a rising Braves one, the Pirates competitive with young Bonds in the lead, Maddux announcing his presence with authority, so forth. The Red Sox & Mariners both sucked, though.
A golden age? Eh. The golden age of baseball was 2004, obvs.
1953 - Five straight championships! Take that, Roger Kahn! 565 feet! Take that, National Boh sign!
That collision is the earliest MLB memory I have. I remember seeing it -- or maybe TV news or highlight-show footage of it -- on TV while we were visiting my uncle, aunt & cousins in Bossier City.
As was I (didn't turn 13 till the season was nearly over, in mid-September). Maybe that's why my baseball card consumption dropped about 99 percent from the previous year ...
Harveys was on deck when he hit that homer.
I mean, look at the All Star rosters in the late '90's and early 2000's. Ridiculous. Simply loaded with guys who'd be HOFers if the BBWAA wasn't so childish and petty.
oh no i do NOT think so - astros were teh total sukc except for biggio and the owner was getting ready to sell the team and didn't care no mo
92 was barry lamar's broken heart
but i would say that the mid to late 90s to like 2005 had an increadible numbers of unbelieveably great players, roids or no roids
but for me i would say my own golden age of baseball was from like august 02 when MY twins would finally sleep for longer at a time than 90 minutes and i discovered stuff like the neyer board and primer and david pinto and bbpro and bbref and all kinds of fun chatboards and blogs long gone
peaking in 04 when me and husband had season tickets and i started blogging and it was so much fun here at primer - so many guys long since gone - and somehow, the newness of blogging and chatting - really so much gone by the 06 season when there was a sudden explosion in the precision of all the stats
and just about gone by now when everything is a tweet and nothing much is not disected to shreds now.
It got off to a golden start! Becasue of the delayed start, I went to my only Cubs opening day, sat in the bleachers and (I believe) publicly swore for the first time (I was 10 going on 11). Pre-game, Willie Montanez tossed balls into the bleachers and we tossed them back!
I went again the next day ... and Hooten threw a no-hitter.
The Cubs had a good year and Billy Williams was awesome (led in BA, SLG and OPS; 2nd in MVP to Bench). Pappas threw his "perfect" game, Fergie won 20, Carmen Fanzone probably played the national anthem on the trumpet and (I'll be damned) Elrod Hendricks was on the Cubs for 6 weeks. What's not to like?
1987-1992 I fall in love with baseball. It is cool to collect baseball cards.
1999-2003 The A's moneyball run is a fantastic team to be a fan of, and I'm living in Chicago and enjoying being in a baseball town.
2012-The Nats finally win me over.
I just hate the second wild card, and it also seems like there have been more injuries this year than I can ever remember before, though that could be my imagination. I enjoy going to games still, and I watch parts of most Orioles games on tv because my girlfriend has them on, but I never listen on the radio (internet since 1998) anymore.
So I think I have four distinct tiers of enjoyment: 1989 through 1993, 1994 through about 2009, when I still listened to at least one game almost every day, although for much of that time I hated the style of play, and then 2010 to the present, over which I've listened to fewer and fewer games and been less and less concerned about their outcome. The beginning of period four also coincides with turning 30, which I guess could have something to do with it.
I never had heard of that song until yesterday.
my dad makes more money than your dad.
Hasn't offense been trending downwards since 2008 or so, and not just in the last 2 years? The sillyball era really seemed to end after 2007.
And compared to everything before and since, 1988-1992 really looks like IT was the fluke, not the norm.
In that era, most American families earned $5-10K, had one TV (black & white), one car and one phone. Not so much of a golden age if you had to earn the money your kids spent on comics.
Multiply that income by a factor of 6 to 8 and I'm guessing it's still true. Haven't priced comic books in 40+ years, but I'm also guessing they go for well over $1.00.
My golden age was 1957-61, my age 11-15 years, when I was playing league BB (as opposed to pickup games.) After that the pitchers began throwing curveballs and I switched to football with a bit of shotput/discus for springtime. The love for baseball began in 1956 but really grew the next season when I began checking box scores and SI's weekly leaders to see how Mantle was doing. (Not until many years later did I realize 1957 was arguably Mick's best season; before then my decidedly non-sabermetric rating put it at #3 behind '56 and '61 - he didn't even get to 100 RBI!)
These days, the cheap ones are $2.99. More & more, $3.99 is becoming the industry standard.
Walt - wasn't 1972 also Santo's last really good year with the Cubs?
Speaking of Santo, his belated HOF induction will be July 22 - Way to go, VC, vote him in after he's dead so he can't make the speech. I'm guessing that Cooperstown will nevertheless be overrun by Cubs fans that weekend, yes? Any Cubs primates going?
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