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Thursday, September 14, 2017

New delivery, old results for Tyler Glasnow in loss to Brewers | Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Why not give him some time in the pen in a long reliever role?

Jim Furtado Posted: September 14, 2017 at 08:27 AM | 13 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: pirates, tyler glasnow

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   1. Rennie's Tenet Posted: September 14, 2017 at 09:07 AM (#5531376)
Why not give him some time in the pen in a long reliever role?


Maybe next year, but I assume they're mostly concerned about consistent innings right now. They'll probably try to get him to focus on one or two new things for the next start. For what's it's worth, I thought he looked a lot better than last time around. Speed was more consistent, and I thought he was closer around the strike zone.
   2. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 14, 2017 at 09:15 AM (#5531381)
His two big issues are fastball command and feel for his changeup, and neither of those are really things that will be helped by time in the pen. He's already got more than enough velocity, and doesn't need another excuse to stop throwing the change.
   3. Russ Posted: September 14, 2017 at 09:19 AM (#5531386)
We had a somewhat sick kid last night, so I didn't get to watch anything but the first inning. When I woke up this morning, I was grateful that was all I saw. Glasnow's velocity looked great in the first, but I just find that he doesn't have any movement on his fastball... so even if he does fix his control issues, I'm worried about the long term.

As far as the Pirates go, I just want Andrew McCutchen to retire as a Pirate, because I don't know if they'll ever win another World Series before I die and so I might as well get to watch one of the coolest hitters I've ever seen. The home run he hit in the first last night was RIDICULOUS. I don't know how he generates that much exit velocity with that angle given his physical size. It's crazy.
   4. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: September 14, 2017 at 10:20 AM (#5531433)
What is a long reliever?
   5. Mike Emeigh Posted: September 14, 2017 at 11:23 AM (#5531488)
What is a long reliever?


Exactly. Teams don't carry them any more; pitchers either go five innings or 1-2 innings.

-- MWE
   6. Tim D Posted: September 14, 2017 at 11:57 AM (#5531526)
Time was lots of young starters came up and went directly to the bullpen to pitch in low leverage situations. No longer, it's all about the role and the regular routine. You also used to have starters throw an inning of relief on their bullpen day.

For all the "science" that has gone into developing pitchers, I don't think they are one iota healthier than they were in the 60's. There were more career-ending injuries because the medical techniques hadn't developed yet, but I don't think, and have not seen a study to suggest that there were any more injuries.
   7. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 14, 2017 at 12:45 PM (#5531569)
You also used to have starters throw an inning of relief on their bullpen day.


Still see that one once in a great while, during extra-inning games.
   8. Mike Emeigh Posted: September 14, 2017 at 01:28 PM (#5531595)
For all the "science" that has gone into developing pitchers, I don't think they are one iota healthier than they were in the 60's.


I think they recover more quickly - they get injured just as often, but they miss less time and return to effectiveness in a shorter overall period.

Kershaw's back problems likely would have knocked him out for the year (or longer) back in the 60's.

-- MWE
   9. salvomania Posted: September 14, 2017 at 03:56 PM (#5531811)
I don't think they are one iota healthier than they were in the 60's.

I'll bet if pitchers in the '60s tried to throw as hard as often as pitchers do now, there would have been way more injuries back then.

Or put another way, if the general pitching style of the '60s was similar today, injuries would be less frequent.

In today's game, I feel we're seeing far more maximum effort out of both pitchers throwing and hitters swinging.

I have no data or science to support these views.
   10. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: September 14, 2017 at 05:12 PM (#5531909)
Still think Glasnow's going to have a run as an elite reliever. Probably after the Pirates give up on him and some other team makes him a short reliever.

I'm bearish on Glasnow as a starter, but bullish on what might happen if he just focuses on throwing two pitches at max effort.
   11. Walt Davis Posted: September 14, 2017 at 06:07 PM (#5531956)
Current pitching usage may have evolved in an attempt to limit injury but it has stuck around because it is a more effective way of limiting runs. Three guys going max effort for one inning each is simply better at limiting runs than pushing the starter for 7-9 innings or expecting one reliever to give you 2-3 innings. Teams perceive it as so much more effective that they have dropped a couple of position player roster spots over the last 20 years or so.

#8: Mike, even assuming you're right, I think the question implied by #6 is whether any improvements are the result of better medical technology or different pitcher usage. Would Kershaw have come back more slowly if he'd been starting one per 4 games prior to the injury? The other question being whether the back would have flared up sooner and/or more often under the heavier workload. Not that any of us have evidence-based answers to these questions.
   12. Russ Posted: September 15, 2017 at 12:56 PM (#5532431)
I think they recover more quickly - they get injured just as often, but they miss less time and return to effectiveness in a shorter overall period.


Actually, because they recover more quickly, individual pitchers probably get injured MORE often, because they are exposed more. But then they are pitching less often, so the exposure rate is lower than it was in the old days. A lot of how you would analyze the data would depend on how you phrased the question:

1) Are there more injuries now than before (maybe in terms of injury / 100 IP to handle the difference in exposure)?
2) Are there more days missed per injury than before?
3) Is there a difference in performance before or after injury between the past and current players (if players may report injuries more often now, but that means that their average level of performance should be higher than the past because players in the past were more likely to play injured).
   13. Russ Posted: September 15, 2017 at 12:57 PM (#5532433)
Would Kershaw have come back more slowly if he'd been starting one per 4 games prior to the injury? The other question being whether the back would have flared up sooner and/or more often under the heavier workload. Not that any of us have evidence-based answers to these questions.


I'm hoping that my postdoc and Masters student will solve these two problems, respectively, before they both finish their work with me next summer. :-)

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