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1. Craig Calcaterra Posted: June 29, 2009 at 02:02 PM (#3236494)I wonder what "(uniform)" replaced. I'd like to think Hrbek calls it the "Gant-lifter."
And it only cost the taxpayers $400 million to remedy the situation!
To be fair a large portion of the taxpayers don't live here since the tax is in Hennepin County (which means the Mall of America and Minneapolis). If you live anywhere but downtown it's pretty easy to avoid the tax. If you live downtown you're probably directly benefitting. If you're dumb enough to shop at MOA you deserve to be taxed extra.
I suppose this means Kent Hrbek Outdoors isn't too popular in Georgia.
But then we wouldn't have the Mall of America!
Back when I lived in St. Paul, I would do as much shopping as possible in Hennepin County to do my part to pay for the stadium (that one cent for each twenty dollars was sure ruining my budget). Now that I live in Minneapolis (aka, the good side of the river) I no longer have to worry about it too much.
But he couldn't possibly match Jack Morris' "clutchiness". Plus...
Atlanta third baseman Terry Pendleton, agreeing it was a push by Hrbek, endorsed the tactic. "If you can get the edge and help him off the bag, so be it," Pendleton said. "This is a game and you're trying to win."
And I just noticed this. Is non-MLB baseball illegal in the Twin Cities?
So I've been hearing. At least I think that's what "You can't play in MN without a roof" means. Possibly you can play outdoors, but not without Twins' organizational lifer Phil Roof...
Drew Coble.
I think only Braves fans hate him. I don't mind him. The play of infamy was the ump's fault for being a dope. It seemed obvious at the time the ump seemed more interested in making a dramatic call than the right call.
The hate is primarily from Atlanta fans, for obvious reasons.
Fixed that one for ya...
Gant and 1B coach, Pat Corrales, went nose-to-nose with Coble. Cox came out of the dugout essentially to defend his player and coach, but he didn't get ejected (although you have to do a lot to get ejected from a World Series game). It's possible that Cox could have been screened from the play by Hrbek's giant ass and didn't get a real good look.
He had made enough money and was tired of back and knee problems. Deep down, all he ever really wanted to do was hunt and fish.
Yes, that's because it would have been a brilliant old-school play if Lemke did it, but when Hrbek did it, it was cheating. This is how being a sports fan works.
Looks like he pulls him off to me. How many times do you see MLB players pirouette off a bag like that?
Gant was rightly called out.
I didn't like the Twins of that era, as it seemed to my adolescent self that they always beat the A's. Upon BB-Refing, the A's were actually 35-30 against the Twins from 1988-1992. Maybe the Twins just always beat them when I got to watch. But I know I was always wary when a series with the Twins came up.
I'm glad we're all on the same page.
The resident BBTF contrarians must be going nuts trying to decide which side to accuse of groupthink on this one.
EDIT: Dammit, coke to Shooty. Or, possibly, a PBR.
You hipster douche!
And you can believe me because, as a lifelong Mariners fan, I have no reason to take sides here.
To the extent you see it differently in the video, it's because you've had a bunch of shmutz imprinted on your subconscious or somesuch. I'd explain more, but like I said, I'm a bit more learned than all of you and I don't wish to confuse you.
/glad I can help
Did you attend the meet-up last weekend? I heard rLr's version of events, don't know how much I trust that
The play is a lot more ambiguous than I remember, but it still looks to me like Hrbek was pulling him off the bag. I think Gant started to slip a little and Hrbek sensed it and pulled him off. It can be argued that if Hrbek wouldn't have taken the initiative, Gant would still have come off the bag, so I guess in that light the call was right.
Nope. Missed this one.
Yes, but I was there. I saw it live with my own two eyes. He was out. That's why you don't run into second base standing up when trying to steal. You slide to help hook the bag and stay on it.
That's only because he's been around a lot lately.
Definitely. I need some Australia pointers.
You can run into second base any way you damn please as long as it gets you there before the tag, and you stay on the base. Gant beat the throw, and was standing on first, until Hrbek lifted him off.
You were a 9 year old Twins fan sitting in left field. I will posit that you are not the most reliable eye witness. Personally, I will trust the close up video which plainly shows history's greatest monster, Kent Hrbek, lifting Gant off the base.
If you can't see that in the video you are the blindiest blinderson ever to wear blinders.
My tuping wadn't a dead goveaweay?
Blinderson.
He was never standing anywhere. When Hrbek starts making the tag, Gant has one one foot on the bag and the other one is still in the air with his momentum is taking him across Hrbek's body (with his body already going past the bag). Also, notice that before the tag is made, as his body is going forward and he's getting ready to plant his left foot, Gant's left arm is flying back to help him get his balance from his momentum carrying him over Hrbek's body. His left arm going back indicates that his mind says he's gone too far and he needs to do something about it before he falls over Hrbek/off the base. Hrbek certainly might have helped him long, but Gant's instincts knew he was in the wrong place before the tag.
Hrbek positioned his body perfectly to force Gant to trip over/dance around him. Gant decided to try to dance around him rather than slide. Those were the keys to the play much moreso than how hard Hrbek pulled. Hrbek put himself in a good situation. Gant put himself in a bad situation. A delicate tag might have allowed him to stay of the base, you can't expect Hrbek to let up when a guy is falling over him.
Among the biggest villains in baseball history would be Hitler and Tojo, for prosecuting World War II and causing Williams, DiMaggio, Greenberg, Feller, Musial et al to miss prime seasons. Also possibly ruining Cecil Travis' career.
Also, anyone that brings up Godwin's Law can bite the big one. Godwin's Law is the biggest crock of the Internet era. No, no, can't ever mention Hitler. No danger in forgetting history, is there? Nothing like coming up with a rule that's a hundred times worse that whatever "horror" it's supposedly designed to prevent.
I don't think your comment falls under the umbrella of Godwin's Law. I always thought Godwin's Law was more for hyperbole-filled comparisons to Hitler, like saying Kent Hrbek is like Hitler because of what he did to Ron Gant. In your case, bringing up Hitler himself as being a horrible villain makes perfect sense.
See here where Hrbek has his glove under Gant's leg, while the latter is completely off the ground. Note that while in this position Hrbek has also taken multiple steps backwards. It is even more painfully (and as a Braves' fan I do mean painfully) obvious in video form.
When I watch Gant coming into the bag, he is clearly out of control. There is no doubt that Hrbek places himself in an optimal spot so as to take advantage of this.
Gant does the double step, which puts his centre of gravity way too high. He comes down on Hrbek, who undoubtedly rolls along with him away from the bag.
Hrbek helped him along, but Gant made himself vulnerable because he was so off balance.
If you want to argue that Hrbek physically lifted him, that's your business, but I think that is overstating it. I would say that he blocked the bag, helping Gant lose his balance in the first place. He then applied a tag that continued Gant's momentum over the bag.
As an umpire, an out call is more defensible than a safe call. Especially with a demerit for not sliding. Like, if I was an ump and a guy dove into first base on a grounder just to try and confuse me, I would call him out if it was at all close just for being a stupid jackass.
You can hate him, but it doesn't mean he cheated. For example, as a Cubs fan, I don't claim Steve Garvey cheated to win in '84. I simply acknowledge that he is a Nazi and a child molester.
What somebody needs to do is get a good film of this play and get all frame-by-frame Zapruder Film on that ass, thereby determining if Gant was safe or out, and also discerning clearly the soulless gaze of a 14 year-old Anthony John Pierzynski in the crowd behind the players.
The main problem with Godwin's Law is not the original law, which doesn't really say all that much. The problem is that it took about two seconds for people to go from that to the conclusion that any mention of Hitler or Nazis in any thread invokes Godwin's Law and thus should be avoided at all costs.
Hitler and the Nazis have had thousands of books written about them. They're a fascinating and important topic in history. There's no reason that they shouldn't be fruit for discussion, even off-topic discussion.
Didn't Jesse Ventura offer Hrbek the second spot on the ticket when he ran for governor in '98?
Nazis: old and busted.
Iranian mullahs: new hotness.
Right. The hate is derived from the fact that he cheated, not a causal driver of his having cheated. The arrow of causality runs the other way. We hate him because he cheated. And because he needs another vowel. He didn't cheat because we hate him.
2. It looks like Hrbek simply picked up his leg, so he should have been awarded the base.
back, and to the left....
back, and to the left....
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