#### research. "Not recalling anyone telling me Piazza was taking a beating on the air" is good enough.

i wasn't around for this, but it sure doesn't sound like scully to me ... but i also don't know why piazza would say something like this ... the whole thing is puzzling.

Given the Pizza contract issue

"$105 million? That's unfair."
"Unfair to payor but not to payee. But you're gonna pay it, or else!"
"Or else what?"
"Tell him, Vin Scully."
"Or else Pizza is gonna send out for you!"

Was more than a minority of the Dodger fan base in favor of Piazza being traded? I would figure most would be disappointed he was sent packing.

#### research. "Not recalling anyone telling me Piazza was taking a beating on the air" is good enough.

I understand your sentiment, but would it be really feasible to listen to 120+ hours of broadcast in hopes of confirming or disproving the claim?

I understand your sentiment, but would it be really feasible to listen to 120+ hours of broadcast in hopes of confirming or disproving the claim?

Is it necessary given the relatively weak statement he makes in the column? No. But is it feasible? You could probably pay a few interns cheap overtime to do it. Heck, you could probably find a few folks on this site who would do it for free.

No, Piazza was the most famous and well liked Dodger. Fans would have given him anything to stay on the team.

Is it necessary given the relatively weak statement he makes in the column? No. But is it feasible? You could probably pay a few interns cheap overtime to do it. Heck, you could probably find a few folks on this site who would do it for free.

It's not even that hard. Piazza played 37 games for the Dodgers in 1998 before he was traded. If you just listened to what Scully said during his AB's, you'd probably get a sense if Piazza's memory is correct.

Plus you get to listen to Scully call the Dodgers. I'd do it if I had access to the broadcasts.

From everything I know about Scully, I simply can't imagine him doing to Piazza what Marty Brenneman did to Adam Dunn in Cincinnati. It's just not Vin's style.

It's not even that hard. Piazza played 37 games for the Dodgers in 1998 before he was traded. If you just listened to what Scully said during his AB's, you'd probably get a sense if Piazza's memory is correct.

Also spring training (if Scully did those games).

But is it feasible? You could probably pay a few interns cheap overtime to do it. Heck, you could probably find a few folks on this site who would do it for free.

Would the audio even be available to listen to?

#### research. "Not recalling anyone telling me Piazza was taking a beating on the air" is good enough.

That's a fair comment, considering Piazza was watching KCAL while catching that year. Both guys are talking out of their ass.

Would the audio even be available to listen to?

This. If audio of past Dodgers games was available, I think we all would know - because there would be many webpages, with clips, devoted to Vin's stories, anecdotes, trivia (""Uggla' is Swedish for 'owl.'") and, oh yeah, calls of actual baseball.

I understand your sentiment, but would it be really feasible to listen to 120+ hours of broadcast in hopes of confirming or disproving the claim?

He could at least ask people who watched the games, since it sounds like he didn't.

From everything I know about Scully, I simply can't imagine him doing to Piazza what Marty Brenneman did to Adam Dunn in Cincinnati. It's just not Vin's style.

Again, this. I can't recall Vin ever ripping on a player about money.

Three times in his sensational career has Mike Piazza walked into the GM’s office to pitch a fateful contract demand. But tonight, May the thirteenth, nineteen hundred and ninety-eight, he made the toughest walk of his career, I'm sure, because the Los Angeles Dodgers have said they’re perfectly willing to turn him down. He has hit .362, he has driven in 124, and he is almost out of this situation. Fred Claire deals, and it’s for one year, $7 million. Strike out!

And you can almost taste the tension now. Fred Claire reaches back for something extra. He ran his fingers through his blond hair... that’s his own real blond hair, not Piazza’s. Claire goes into a full extension. Three years, $19 million, third year not guaranteed. It is 9:41 p.m. on May the thirteenth. Piazza is shaking Claire off. You can almost feel the air go out of the building as Piazza delivers the answer. Hell no.

The Dodgers defensively in this spine-tingling moment: Fred Claire and Tommy Lasorda. The boys who will try to stop it if things get out of hand: News Corp. And there’s twenty-nine thousand people in the ballpark with a million butterflies. They know what’s happening here. They know Tom Prince is the backup. They’re pulling in their hearts for the GM to say $30, $40 million dollars, but the experienced veteran Claire won’t go for it.

Mike Piazza is the best hitter in the league. He is just one signature away from a perfect career in Dodger blue.

Claire is giving him very little. He drags his toe along the lush carpeting. I would think that his upholstered chair is the stingiest place in the world right now. Piazza is a single concession away from the promised land. You can’t blame a man for pushing at a time like this. And now, Claire offers.

He is... gone! Piazza is out of here. It is 9:49 p.m. in the city of the angels, and these fans have seen a doozy of a move. Michael Joseph Piazza is headed east, the Dodgers are headed to third place, and that “P” in capital letters on his contract will stand out even more than the I-S-S-O-F-F.

He could at least ask people who watched the games, since it sounds like he didn't.

He refers to Scully's own recent quotes about it. That seems to be pertinent.

Why was the Piazza to the Mets deal done in 2 steps? Why wasn't it just a 3-team trade that happened all at once?

1) Vin never tried to turn the fans against Piazza
2) The fans never turned against Piazza

I understand the need to move paper, but taking a shot at Vin is especially low.

Why was the Piazza to the Mets deal done in 2 steps? Why wasn't it just a 3-team trade that happened all at once?

To make Piazza Marlin jerseys a collectors' item.

Was more than a minority of the Dodger fan base in favor of Piazza being traded? I would figure most would be disappointed he was sent packing.

As an LA-area 11 year old, I remember it as a crushing blow.

I can't recall Vin ever ripping on a player about money.

But Vin has never talked about you has he? What you might take as Vin ripping on Piazza and what Piazza might take as Vin ripping on Piazza (or what Piazza's friends listening took as ripping on Piazza then magnified when they told Piazza) might well be two different things.

(And "ripping on" is a bit of a prejudicial term in itself. "Critical of"? "Mentioned Piazza's contract status whenever Piazza was struggling"? "Took management's side"?)

Walt, thanks for setting me straight.

(And "ripping on" is a bit of a prejudicial term in itself. "Critical of"? "Mentioned Piazza's contract status whenever Piazza was struggling"? "Took management's side"?)

Exactly. Especially since Piazza was obviously not listening to the broadcasts himself. Most likely a friend conveyed it to him in a hyperbolic way.

Gonfalon, nobody else might, but I recognize your genius.

You, sir, are a genius.

Even more likely is that Piazza's agent told him that Vin was ripping him.

But Vin has never talked about you has he? What you might take as Vin ripping on Piazza and what Piazza might take as Vin ripping on Piazza (or what Piazza's friends listening took as ripping on Piazza then magnified when they told Piazza) might well be two different things.

(And "ripping on" is a bit of a prejudicial term in itself. "Critical of"? "Mentioned Piazza's contract status whenever Piazza was struggling"? "Took management's side"?)

Well, Walt, Piazza (or his ghostwriter) make the claim that Scully was "crushing him." That's neither a precise nor an objective term, so we're forced to conclude that Piazza is at least somewhat interested in shifting the blame for what happened in 1998 onto someone other than himself. What was unmistakable, however, was the "who dropped the ton of bricks on me?" look that Piazza was wearing during his brief stay with the Fish that year.

I have never heard Scully criticize a player for anything other than on-field mistakes in the many, many decades I've been listening to him. Granted, I've not listened to every single game he's broadcast, but his approach today is by and large highly consistent with what I remember to be the case when I was a teenager.

Interestingly, Ross Newhan gets his facts garbled. Piazza did not go hitless in the first four games of the 1998 regular season. He had a hit in each of those games. He struggled in the very early going, hitting .172 over his first seven games, but he hit 4 HR and drove in 15 over the next seven games to get untracked. He hit .326, with 8 HR and 26 RBI in April 1998.

16 FTW

If audio of past Dodgers games was available, I think we all would know - because there would be many webpages, with clips, devoted to Vin's stories, anecdotes, trivia (""Uggla' is Swedish for 'owl.'") and, oh yeah, calls of actual baseball.

I was going to make this page, but I only had the implied oral consent of Major League Baseball.

Of course it doesn't ring true. White guys can't rap.

Well, Walt, Piazza (or his ghostwriter) make the claim that Scully was "crushing him." That's neither a precise nor an objective term

Agreed.

I have never heard Scully criticize a player for anything other than on-field mistakes

And if Scully was, justifiably or not, criticizing Piazza for on-field "mistakes" at the time, Piazza might view this in a more negative light than Scully intended it.

As we note all the time, it is common for bad/struggling teams to blame their best player. As we also note all the time, it is common for a team that has decided they will trade rather than extend a player to start to focus on his negatives in the press. I certainly understand the desire to defend Scully especially since Piazza provides no specifics (I gather). But, in the end, it's he said he heard.

None of us know Scully, none of us know Piazza. The "best case scenario" is somebody wastes a lot of time transcribing tapes, puts quotes out there and we pointlessly debate whether it does or doesn't sound like a slam -- which, even if we could agree, tells us nothing about how Scully may have meant it nor how Piazza heard it.

He hit .326, with 8 HR and 26 RBI in April 1998.

Followed by 204/214/259 with 1 HR for the Dodgers in May. Possibly this was a period when Vin was criticizing him for his on-field play. The Dodgers went 5-8 in this stretch of Piazza starts (hardly horrible). I note teams went 14 for 17 in steals (plus one pickoff CS) ... which is not much worse than regular Piazza although this did include speedsters like Javy Lopez, Ryan Klesko and Gregg Zaun. They gave up about 5 runs a game during this stretch.

May 9 would have been enough to try the patience of any announcer. Piazza was 0-4 with 1 K, 1 DP, 4 steals allowed (1 caught), 1 error.

As opposed to Trevor Bauer's rap.

Gonfalon, nobody else might, but I recognize your genius.

I do. It just gets a little tiresome to call for a Primey after every one of his posts.

Can you do Michael Caine doing Sean Connery, Gonfalon?

That was indeed excellent.

Thanks Gonfalon! But why did Piazza and Claire's parents do for a living?

Steve Dilbeck dug up the "crushing" interview, from KTLA in 1998.

Link (with video)

Aw, you're all so sweet.

Unrelated thought here: Has any MLB player come from a wealthier background than Piazza? His dad was the guy who tried to move the Giants to Tampa (really!) and has a fortune of over $100 million.

Re 16: golf clap.

Has any MLB player come from a wealthier background than Piazza?

Tony Gwynn Jr's dad is pretty wealthy. If Koby Clemens ever gets a cup of coffee in the bigs, he might be from a wealthier family than Piazza.

Nice call, Gonfalon.

On the other hand, post 37 isn't funny at all. You're losing it!

lotta pearl clutching in L.A. over this kerfuffle, i have to say. i was approached by a coworker yesterday who as far as i know barely follows baseball, and had a long conversation about it. the memory of piazza being dealt away is still pretty disturbing to a certain set of fans.

Steve Dilbeck dug up the "crushing" interview, from KTLA in 1998.

Link (with video)

very interesting. after studying the tape, i have to say this all came about because vin hurt his feelings by continually harping on piazzas low number of stolen bases. wotta bum. *rolls eyes*.

I just want to give kudos to post #3--that made my morning.

16. In an improbable thread, the impossible has been posted.

My vague recollection at the time was that the Dodgers were in an old fashioned, "we're struggling we're not sure what to do so lets shake things up and dump on our best player" mode. Nut I was on the East Coast and the Internet was in its infancy so I really don't know what the MSM was doing in LA.

I will say this, if a player is accustomed to praise and unconditional hero worship, the absence of praise/worship let alone criticism may seem like an attack.

Eddie Murray, back in around 1980-85, the MSM held Murray in unusually high regard, he was a great player, he was a great teammate, he was a feared hitters, he was a consummate pro looked up to by his teammates and adversaries alike. (Bill James touched on this in one of the early abstracts- something along the lines of what was with the Murray worship, Murray was not better than someone like Dale Murphy, but Murphy was still regarded as flesh and blood mortal who used the bathroom just like everyone else..)
But of course that didn't last, Murray as it turned out was VERY thin skinned and held grudges, at the slightest hint of criticism, that writer was permanently cut off, and later Murray would start telling younger players to shun reporters that Murray didn't like.
Well you know how reporters are, as far as they are concerned the worst human beings are those who don't talk to THEM, so the MSM depiction of Murray did a 180 turn...

#16 is a great post because you can actually hear the Scully inflections as you read it.....
"it is (emphasis) 9:49 pm, in the (emphasis) city of the Angels...."

Much of the criticism about Piazza in L.A., which wasn't much, came from print and sports talk radio. And those aren't nearly as much of a force in L.A. as in other parts.

Here is a story from the LA Times. No need to guess the author I think:

As Dodger fans stagger numbly today into a new era, part outraged, part inspired, mostly confused, peace can be found at the other end of a question.

Are you still about winning?

If so, then you will applaud the trade of Mike Piazza.

For the first time since the free agent-bloated Dodger squad stumbled in the final days of 1991, your team is bold again.

Your team is willing to risk public wrath for a shot at championships again.

This was something Branch Rickey would have tried, something Kirk Gibson would have loved.

Given the generous offer of the disgraceful Florida Marlins, fans shouldn't be wondering how the Dodgers could trade their best and most popular player.

These were back to back letters to the Times Sports section on April 18, 1998:

The problem with Mike Piazza is that he has blown an opportunity that not too many sports stars ever get--the chance to command real respect and admiration from fans. Whether Piazza gets $84 million or $100 million over the next seven years really shouldn't matter; he is set for life either way.

There are players, like Tony Gwynn and a handful of others, who realize that they make so much money that they can afford to reward their fans and their team with some loyalty. Whether the working stiff making $3,000 a month would demand $3,500 from his employer if he could get it is irrelevant. Mike Piazza could have been one of those few principled guys who remembered how the strike of 1994 and the greed of both the players and owners turned so many fans away from the game.

He could have told his fans he didn't really have the ego to be the highest-paid player in the game (even if only for a few days). Mike Piazza could have brought fans back to the game. Instead, he has turned out to be just another rich athlete out only for himself, no matter the cost.

If Mike Piazza is confused about how to manage his career, perhaps he should take a look at how Mark McGwire handles his. McGwire could have gone anywhere as a free agent and made triple the money (the kind of money Piazza wants), but his decision to stay in St. Louis was fueled by his love of the game and of the fans, not by greed.

Mark McGwire inspires me to want to do good things and to work hard to accomplish something, while Mike Piazza inspires me to want to sit home as a couch potato whining about my salary, hoping one day to win the lottery.

Mark McGwire inspires me to want to do good things and to work hard to accomplish something

Mark McGwire inspires me to want to do good things and to work hard to accomplish something

Mark McGwire inspires me to want to do good things and to work hard to accomplish something

that first quote has got to be plaschke, right? what a tool.

Gonfalon is the Vin Scully of BBTF posters.

I think Gonfalon may, in fact, BE Vin Scully.

Are you still about winning?

If so, then you will applaud the trade of Mike Piazza.

If nothing else- The Dodgers trade of Piazza was not a "dump trade" by the Dodgers
The Dodgers got back:
Gary Sheffield... borderline HOF talent
Charles Johnson (Kind of his generation's Matt Wieters- he was SUPPOSED to be a super star catcher)- inconsistent but was coming off a 4.2 WAR year (faceplanted for the Dodgers, but later had some decent years with Baltimore)
Bobby Bo (hey talk about longevity, he's still drawing an MLB salary!)

What about Jim Eisenreich, the Dodger Killer?

He took that moniker literally.