I bring all this up because of a claim by Mike Piazza in his new book, “Long Shot”, that Scully, in his broadcasts, turned fans against him during the catcher’s 1998 contract stalemate with the Dodgers that preceded his trade to the Florida Marlins in May of that year, a trade that arguably ranks with the trading of Pedro Martinez as the worst in L.A. Dodger history.
Given Scully’s view of his function and job it is difficult to accept Piazza’s interpretation, memory or insinuation that the broadcaster would have conducted a campaign against him.
Scully, in a Thursday story in The Times, denied all of that, said he could not recall the spring interview with Piazza, and “as God is my judge, I don’t get involved in these things. I can’t imagine I would ever put my toe in the water as far as a player and his negotiations. I have no idea where he is coming from…. I’m really flabbergasted.”
It was a tumultuous period. Given the Pizza contract issue and the fact that Fox had only recently bought the club from Peter O’Malley, I was at the ballpark almost every night. I certainly did not hear all of Scully’s broadcast during this period.
However, given his philosophy and approach to ongoing controversies of the Piazza type, and not recalling anyone telling me Piazza was taking a beating on the air, the book interpretation just doesn’t ring true.
Repoz
Posted: February 14, 2013 at 01:03 PM |
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1. JJ1986 Posted: February 14, 2013 at 01:27 PM (#4369656)"Unfair to payor but not to payee. But you're gonna pay it, or else!"
"Or else what?"
"Tell him, Vin Scully."
"Or else Pizza is gonna send out for you!"
I understand your sentiment, but would it be really feasible to listen to 120+ hours of broadcast in hopes of confirming or disproving the claim?
I understand your sentiment, but would it be really feasible to listen to 120+ hours of broadcast in hopes of confirming or disproving the claim?
Is it necessary given the relatively weak statement he makes in the column? No. But is it feasible? You could probably pay a few interns cheap overtime to do it. Heck, you could probably find a few folks on this site who would do it for free.
It's not even that hard. Piazza played 37 games for the Dodgers in 1998 before he was traded. If you just listened to what Scully said during his AB's, you'd probably get a sense if Piazza's memory is correct.
Plus you get to listen to Scully call the Dodgers. I'd do it if I had access to the broadcasts.
Also spring training (if Scully did those games).
Would the audio even be available to listen to?
That's a fair comment, considering Piazza was watching KCAL while catching that year. Both guys are talking out of their ass.
He could at least ask people who watched the games, since it sounds like he didn't.
And you can almost taste the tension now. Fred Claire reaches back for something extra. He ran his fingers through his blond hair... that’s his own real blond hair, not Piazza’s. Claire goes into a full extension. Three years, $19 million, third year not guaranteed. It is 9:41 p.m. on May the thirteenth. Piazza is shaking Claire off. You can almost feel the air go out of the building as Piazza delivers the answer. Hell no.
The Dodgers defensively in this spine-tingling moment: Fred Claire and Tommy Lasorda. The boys who will try to stop it if things get out of hand: News Corp. And there’s twenty-nine thousand people in the ballpark with a million butterflies. They know what’s happening here. They know Tom Prince is the backup. They’re pulling in their hearts for the GM to say $30, $40 million dollars, but the experienced veteran Claire won’t go for it.
Mike Piazza is the best hitter in the league. He is just one signature away from a perfect career in Dodger blue.
Claire is giving him very little. He drags his toe along the lush carpeting. I would think that his upholstered chair is the stingiest place in the world right now. Piazza is a single concession away from the promised land. You can’t blame a man for pushing at a time like this. And now, Claire offers.
He is... gone! Piazza is out of here. It is 9:49 p.m. in the city of the angels, and these fans have seen a doozy of a move. Michael Joseph Piazza is headed east, the Dodgers are headed to third place, and that “P” in capital letters on his contract will stand out even more than the I-S-S-O-F-F.
He refers to Scully's own recent quotes about it. That seems to be pertinent.
2) The fans never turned against Piazza
I understand the need to move paper, but taking a shot at Vin is especially low.
To make Piazza Marlin jerseys a collectors' item.
As an LA-area 11 year old, I remember it as a crushing blow.
But Vin has never talked about you has he? What you might take as Vin ripping on Piazza and what Piazza might take as Vin ripping on Piazza (or what Piazza's friends listening took as ripping on Piazza then magnified when they told Piazza) might well be two different things.
(And "ripping on" is a bit of a prejudicial term in itself. "Critical of"? "Mentioned Piazza's contract status whenever Piazza was struggling"? "Took management's side"?)
Exactly. Especially since Piazza was obviously not listening to the broadcasts himself. Most likely a friend conveyed it to him in a hyperbolic way.
You, sir, are a genius.
(And "ripping on" is a bit of a prejudicial term in itself. "Critical of"? "Mentioned Piazza's contract status whenever Piazza was struggling"? "Took management's side"?)
Well, Walt, Piazza (or his ghostwriter) make the claim that Scully was "crushing him." That's neither a precise nor an objective term, so we're forced to conclude that Piazza is at least somewhat interested in shifting the blame for what happened in 1998 onto someone other than himself. What was unmistakable, however, was the "who dropped the ton of bricks on me?" look that Piazza was wearing during his brief stay with the Fish that year.
I have never heard Scully criticize a player for anything other than on-field mistakes in the many, many decades I've been listening to him. Granted, I've not listened to every single game he's broadcast, but his approach today is by and large highly consistent with what I remember to be the case when I was a teenager.
Interestingly, Ross Newhan gets his facts garbled. Piazza did not go hitless in the first four games of the 1998 regular season. He had a hit in each of those games. He struggled in the very early going, hitting .172 over his first seven games, but he hit 4 HR and drove in 15 over the next seven games to get untracked. He hit .326, with 8 HR and 26 RBI in April 1998.
Agreed.
I have never heard Scully criticize a player for anything other than on-field mistakes
And if Scully was, justifiably or not, criticizing Piazza for on-field "mistakes" at the time, Piazza might view this in a more negative light than Scully intended it.
As we note all the time, it is common for bad/struggling teams to blame their best player. As we also note all the time, it is common for a team that has decided they will trade rather than extend a player to start to focus on his negatives in the press. I certainly understand the desire to defend Scully especially since Piazza provides no specifics (I gather). But, in the end, it's he said he heard.
None of us know Scully, none of us know Piazza. The "best case scenario" is somebody wastes a lot of time transcribing tapes, puts quotes out there and we pointlessly debate whether it does or doesn't sound like a slam -- which, even if we could agree, tells us nothing about how Scully may have meant it nor how Piazza heard it.
He hit .326, with 8 HR and 26 RBI in April 1998.
Followed by 204/214/259 with 1 HR for the Dodgers in May. Possibly this was a period when Vin was criticizing him for his on-field play. The Dodgers went 5-8 in this stretch of Piazza starts (hardly horrible). I note teams went 14 for 17 in steals (plus one pickoff CS) ... which is not much worse than regular Piazza although this did include speedsters like Javy Lopez, Ryan Klesko and Gregg Zaun. They gave up about 5 runs a game during this stretch.
May 9 would have been enough to try the patience of any announcer. Piazza was 0-4 with 1 K, 1 DP, 4 steals allowed (1 caught), 1 error.
I do. It just gets a little tiresome to call for a Primey after every one of his posts.
That was indeed excellent.
Link (with video)
very interesting. after studying the tape, i have to say this all came about because vin hurt his feelings by continually harping on piazzas low number of stolen bases. wotta bum. *rolls eyes*.
I will say this, if a player is accustomed to praise and unconditional hero worship, the absence of praise/worship let alone criticism may seem like an attack.
Eddie Murray, back in around 1980-85, the MSM held Murray in unusually high regard, he was a great player, he was a great teammate, he was a feared hitters, he was a consummate pro looked up to by his teammates and adversaries alike. (Bill James touched on this in one of the early abstracts- something along the lines of what was with the Murray worship, Murray was not better than someone like Dale Murphy, but Murphy was still regarded as flesh and blood mortal who used the bathroom just like everyone else..)
But of course that didn't last, Murray as it turned out was VERY thin skinned and held grudges, at the slightest hint of criticism, that writer was permanently cut off, and later Murray would start telling younger players to shun reporters that Murray didn't like.
Well you know how reporters are, as far as they are concerned the worst human beings are those who don't talk to THEM, so the MSM depiction of Murray did a 180 turn...
"it is (emphasis) 9:49 pm, in the (emphasis) city of the Angels...."
Here is a story from the LA Times. No need to guess the author I think:
These were back to back letters to the Times Sports section on April 18, 1998:
If nothing else- The Dodgers trade of Piazza was not a "dump trade" by the Dodgers
The Dodgers got back:
Gary Sheffield... borderline HOF talent
Charles Johnson (Kind of his generation's Matt Wieters- he was SUPPOSED to be a super star catcher)- inconsistent but was coming off a 4.2 WAR year (faceplanted for the Dodgers, but later had some decent years with Baltimore)
Bobby Bo (hey talk about longevity, he's still drawing an MLB salary!)
He took that moniker literally.
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