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Friday, November 30, 2007

Newsday: Mets trade Milledge to Nats

The Mets have traded Lastings Milledge to the Nationals for catcher Brian Schneider and outfielder Ryan Church, a baseball official confirmed this afternoon. Milledge was believed to be a major chip in the Mets’ pursuit of an elite starting pitcher this offseason, but that apparently was not the case.

Thanks to Sean Forman.  May the self-immolation begin.

Andere Richtingen Posted: November 30, 2007 at 07:36 PM | 569 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: mets, nationals

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   101. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:15 PM (#2629569)
Church is an underrated player in that he plays pretty solid defense and is fairly versatile out there.

If the Mets traded a promising young player to placate the manager that is a worrisome sign.
   102. ECAMike Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:15 PM (#2629570)
make I ask a question which reveals just how stupid I am. How do I make sure there isn't big space after my one-line posts?

I think that's just the space created by the edit link. It only shows up for you.
   103. Honkie Kong Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:15 PM (#2629571)
Rosenthal says that the Mets offered Johnny Estrada to the Nats in the trade, free of charge, but that the Nats preferred to look elsewhere for a Schneider replacement

Best line I have heard in a while in MSM
   104. HowardMegdal Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:15 PM (#2629572)
Church defensively? He's like +50 in RF? That's why this deal was made?
   105. BDC Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:15 PM (#2629573)
I am distantly reminded of when the Royals traded Don Slaught (in effect) for Jim Sundberg. (Looking it up, it was an impossibly complicated 4-way deal in which the Mets somehow, incidentally, managed to give up Tim Leary, who went on to have some useful years as a starting pitcher, for nothing in return). Anyway, you have some potential for a championship team, your window is closing fast, so you trade a young guy with considerable upside for a veteran catcher who can't hit and looks like he's thrown out his last baserunner. And you win the World Series.

Just trying to find the silver lining.
   106. PreservedFish Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:17 PM (#2629574)
The Estrada detail doesn't really make Omar look stupider. If he non-tenders Estrada, that Mota deal is brilliant.
   107. Win one for Agrippa (haplo53) Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:17 PM (#2629575)
your window is closing fast


the window slammed shut with beltran looking at strike three.
   108. The Essex Snead Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:17 PM (#2629576)
Just trying to find the silver lining.

It's like when the Red Sox traded Jeff Bagwell - they went to the playoffs w/ Andersen, and where did the Astros go? Nowhere! Yeah! Count the division titlezzzzzzzzzzz!
   109. Len Lansford, Carney Barker Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:18 PM (#2629577)
82 posts in a half-hour. I think we can challenge the Bonds Indicted thread.

Also: Shapiro wasn't going to pay a lot - i.e. Shoppach and Guiterrez - for that muffler?
   110. Honkie Kong Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:18 PM (#2629579)
when the Royals traded Don Slaught (in effect) for Jim Sundberg

That trade must have been Slaughtered
   111. Greg Pope thinks the Cubs are reeking havoc Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:19 PM (#2629580)
Thanks to Sean Forman. May the self-immolation begin.

Sean Forman doesn't have the keys? That seems... odd.
   112. Chris Needham Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:19 PM (#2629581)
Church defensively? He's like +50 in RF? That's why this deal was made?

Definitely. He's got a stopwatch that freezes time allowing him to get under anything hit his way. I'm not sure if that conveys though. If you see Wily Mo at the top of the defensive charts next year, you'll know.
   113. Sean McNally Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:20 PM (#2629582)
After thinking about it, the Nats now have somewhat of a glut of OFs, some interesting pitching prospects and other assorted parts - plus cash.

What are the odds that Milledge and other things (frankly a lot of other things) wind up going to Minnesota or Oakland for Santana or Haren?

Seems almost reasonable.
   114. Chris in Wicker Park Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:20 PM (#2629583)
I think I am going to get a Milledge Nationals jersey. I freaking hate the Mets ownership, front office and coaching staff.

Why do I care about this team?
   115. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:21 PM (#2629584)
The Mets should sign Bobby Kielty. They need someone to platoon Church with. Man, the least Omar could have done is get the Nats to throw in a relief pitcher or two.
   116. Win one for Agrippa (haplo53) Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:21 PM (#2629585)
I think I am going to get a Milledge Nationals jersey. I freaking hate the Mets ownership, front office and coaching staff.

Why do I care about this team?


I'm asking myself the same question.
   117. David Wrightwing obstructionist Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:21 PM (#2629586)
Can we get 1k5v3L in here please to do his thing, I need more of a reason to claim insanity.
   118. Oriole Tragic is totally awesome in the postseason Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:22 PM (#2629588)
I'm trying to get a handle on how good Milledge is supposed to be. Is he better than, say, Delmon Young?

Are they close in talent and/or expected performance?
   119. Tony Ling Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:22 PM (#2629589)
They had a handful of other young starting pitchers on their '07 roster. None of them was any good, but I suppose most of them have a lot of upside. At this point, they will have to be lucky to win in say 2009, when maybe a couple of their starters will emerge.


This is based on the assumption that the Nationals will not be players in the FA market during the 2008 offseason. I'm pretty sure this will not be the case.
   120. rfloh Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:22 PM (#2629590)
#105

You want a veteran catcher. Sign Yorvit. He even has been to the WS.
   121. Gambling Rent Czar Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:22 PM (#2629591)
   122. CrosbyBird Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:22 PM (#2629592)
If he non-tenders Estrada, that Mota deal is brilliant.

Certainly. It's a trade of -$2M for nothing. Always good.
   123. rr Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:22 PM (#2629593)
I am going to assume the Mets know something about Milledge that we don't. If it's simply a case of Randolph and other guys not liking him because of some clubhouse behavior or the music or whatever, that is a cultural prejudice/generation gap problem, perhaps with a tinge of racism involved. Certainly, if a white GM/Mgr team had traded Milledge for two white players, race would be out there.

Also, whatever Randolph may think about Milledge, repsonsibility for this rests with Minaya.

Going back to the 1980s as BDM did, I am reminded a little of the Keith Hernandez/Neil Allen trade. If the Mets just wanted to get rid of Milledge, why do it within the division? With the unbalanced schedule, that is a consideration.
   124. Chris Needham Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:22 PM (#2629594)
What are the odds that Milledge and other things (frankly a lot of other things) wind up going to Minnesota or Oakland for Santana or Haren?

That was one of my thoughts, too. Nobody seemed to be biting on Milledge plus Humber... wonder if someone might be intrigued by some of those arms in Vermont?

I can't imagine so, but...
   125. Cowboy Popup Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:23 PM (#2629595)
I can only figure one thing: this was done to appease Willie Randolph, who has shown his disdain for Milledge from Day One.

I concur, and it seems like there's a fairly obvious reason why.


Willie Randolph hates black people?
   126. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:24 PM (#2629596)
And to think that some mets fans basically laughed at me the other day when I suggested Hernandez and Roberts for Milledge, Gotay, and Pelfrey (I think).
   127. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:24 PM (#2629597)
I really really really don't get this trade. The most reasonable outcome is that both sides get equal value. So then why would you (from a Mets perspective) give up the upside of the guy you already control?
   128. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:25 PM (#2629598)
Chris:

Do you disagree that Church is an above average outfielder?

I liked what I saw in limited action. What am I missing?
   129. birdlives is one crazy ninja Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:25 PM (#2629599)
I'm irritated the A's or Giants couldn't come up with a better package.

I'm sure fans of a lot teams feel that way. The O's could have offered Ramon Hernandez, they could have thrown in cash too. But from what I remember, MacPhail's asking price is a bit higher.
   130. Sean McNally Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:25 PM (#2629601)
That was one of my thoughts, too. Nobody seemed to be biting on Milledge plus Humber... wonder if someone might be intrigued by some of those arms in Vermont?


Or does Milledge let them deal one of Pena-Kearns-Maxwell + pitching, pitching, pitching to Minnesota or Oakland?

On a happier note - did you get your seat assignment?
   131. rfloh Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:25 PM (#2629602)
#118

Is he Delmon? No.

He is a 22 year old who was average offensively in 2007, and who can play CF.

He is a 22 year old who can be league average in CF NOW. Even if you assume he never improves and has no upside.
   132. Honkie Kong Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:26 PM (#2629603)
They had a handful of other young starting pitchers on their '07 roster. None of them was any good, but I suppose most of them have a lot of upside. At this point, they will have to be lucky to win in say 2009, when maybe a couple of their starters will emerge.

They do have Hill, Bergmann and Chico. With an injury prone Patterson.
Sure they are far away in terms of starting pitching, but they are drafting them in big numbers.
And they have lot of $ to play around with.
Kasten has said he will add the big time FAs as the final step, once the skeleton of a good team is in place.
   133. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:26 PM (#2629604)
Willie Randolph hates black people?

Yes. Specifically, young ones who listen to hip hop/rap and have/had braids and, worst of all, high five fans after hitting a homer, which is totally worse than every other in-game celebration that already goes on in baseball.
   134. Chris Needham Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:27 PM (#2629605)
Do you disagree that Church is an above average outfielder?

I liked what I saw in limited action. What am I missing?


He is. A plus defender (second tier) in the corners... strong arm, so-so accuracy.

Probably average on his best days in center... terrible on liners RIGHT at him, which are the kinds of plays that stick in people's mind.
   135. Chris Needham Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:28 PM (#2629607)
Or does Milledge let them deal one of Pena-Kearns-Maxwell + pitching, pitching, pitching to Minnesota or Oakland?

On a happier note - did you get your seat assignment?


Well, we know that one of Cordero or Rauch is gone. If the Twins flip Nathan, they'll need a proven closer...

Yep, I got my second choice (which was what I was expecting) sitting in the lower part of the upper deck just past 3B. (I'm as cheap as the Lerners)
   136. Sean McNally Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:28 PM (#2629608)
Do you disagree that Church is an above average outfielder?

I liked what I saw in limited action. What am I missing?


He's an above-average defender in a corner, but stretched a bit in center... at the plate he's got a very pronounced power-based platoon split.

He also Ks a lot more than you'd like for a guy without real overwhelming power.

He's a nice piece, but not a centerpiece.
   137. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:29 PM (#2629609)
Milledge, Wily Mo, and Nick Johnson. The Nats are an interesting squad.
   138. David Wrightwing obstructionist Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:29 PM (#2629610)
He hates black people with swagger.

I'm just glad I'm at work right now for fear of burning all of my Mets related items.
   139. TerpNats Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:29 PM (#2629611)
Hate to see the end of Church service in Washington and Schneider was an integral part of this team since it arrived from Montreal, but Milledge does have a higher ceiling than either one.

And if this means the Nats won't pursue Dukes, so much the better.
   140. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:29 PM (#2629612)
Milledge really had a great September as well. .887 OPS despite a .189 BABIP. 4 hr, 1 2b, 1 3b, 4 hbp, and 6 walks in his 60 plate appearances.

Milledge did post a .704 OPS against righties in 2007. I don't think he has shown an inability to hit righties in the minors and it was a small sample.
   141. Honkie Kong Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:31 PM (#2629614)
I'm trying to get a handle on how good Milledge is supposed to be. Is he better than, say, Delmon Young?

Right now, Milledge is better, but Delmon has greater potential. Milledge also gains more value if he is played in CF and can handle it.

I liked what I saw in limited action. What am I missing?
Church is a good defender in the corners, and is a very streaky hitter. I am just suspicious of players, whose team goes to great lengths to ignore said person without any given reason.
First, I thought Frank Robinson was a crotchety old bugger, who didn't like Church's attitude, and didn't give a full time job. But when Acta does that too, and plays Casto voer him in LF, you wonder a bit.
   142. Sean McNally Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:31 PM (#2629615)
Well, we know that one of Cordero or Rauch is gone. If the Twins flip Nathan, they'll need a proven closer...

Yep, I got my second choice (which was what I was expecting) sitting in the lower part of the upper deck just past 3B. (I'm as cheap as the Lerners)


I'll drive Chad to the airport if they trade him for Santana (or anything really).

I got my second choice too - lower part of the upper deck, just to the right of the press box. I'm a little bit cheaper than the Lerners.
   143. Gambling Rent Czar Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:31 PM (#2629616)
Milledge, Wily Mo, and Nick Johnson. The Nats are an interesting squad

Nick Johnson is useless.

Milledge, Wily Mo, Dmitri.

a couple of pitchers and the Mets are going to be a 3rd place team.
I can't believe they traded him within their own division too.
   144. Sam M. Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:31 PM (#2629617)
The Estrada detail doesn't really make Omar look stupider. If he non-tenders Estrada, that Mota deal is brilliant.

Um, come again? If he just goes ahead with the Torrealba deal, then he never trades Lastings Milledge to get a catcher he actually wants! It's obvious he didn't really want Johnny Estrada, and while it's fine to take him on for a few days to get rid of Mota, the problem with that is that it also meant NOT signing Torrealba, which now means losing Lastings Milledge instead. So um . . . the Estrada deal -- in combination with not signing Torrealba leads to the loss of Milledge.

Which makes Omar look massively dumb.
   145. baudib Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:32 PM (#2629619)
WTF is this.

Hello?
   146. HowardMegdal Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:33 PM (#2629621)
Okay. So we've established that church is a good corner defensive outfielder.

Now, someone tell me he can fly.
   147. Devin has a deep burning passion for fuzzy socks Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:33 PM (#2629622)
BTW, it may not all be Willie's fault. On the Daily News Mets blog, they mention Jeffy Wilpon talking in Spring Training about having Gomez and F-Mart as his starting outfield in 2009. Omar may have been getting pressure to move him from both directions.
   148. 47YOUNEVERKNOW47 Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:34 PM (#2629623)
I'm sure fans of a lot teams feel that way. The O's could have offered Ramon Hernandez, they could have thrown in cash too. But from what I remember, MacPhail's asking price is a bit higher.


The Orioles wanted Humber for Ramon Hernandez if you believe what you read, and the Mets told them no.

Apparently Minaya said today that he offered Milledge to Baltimore, but the O's weren't interested.

As an Orioles/Mets fan, I'm having a bad day.
   149. Gambling Rent Czar Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:35 PM (#2629626)
Is Ryan Church arbitration eligible?
Next year I guess.
   150. rfloh Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:35 PM (#2629627)
Church is not a bad player. He’s a good player.

But he is not any f****** better than Eric Byrnes. Eric Byrnes got $30M. If Omar is so desperate for a league average OF, sign Jose Guillen. Sign Yorvit to catch.

Brian Schneider is owed $10M in his contract.

UGH.
   151. Chris Needham Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:35 PM (#2629628)
As an Orioles/Mets fan, I'm having a bad day.

Did you spell decade wrong?
   152. The District Attorney Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:36 PM (#2629629)
So um . . . the Estrada deal -- in combination with not signing Torrealba leads to the loss of Milledge.
No, this isn't at all fair. Overvaluing Brian Schneider leads to the loss of Milledge. Trading Mota for Estrada and then dumping Estrada is still smart. Omar clearly would have overvalued Schneider whether we had Estrada or not. He (IMO correctly) saw having Estrada as the equivalent of not having a catcher. If we hadn't brought in any catchers, it's still the same exact thing.

(I should add, overvaluing Schneider AND undervaluing Castro...)
   153. Sam M. Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:36 PM (#2629630)
Jeffy Wilpon talking in Spring Training about having Gomez and F-Mart as his starting outfield in 2009.

Good lord. Gomez might be ready in 2009. It'd be a miracle if Fernando is. The last thing we need is Jeff Wilpon's opinions forcing the stupid yet again. We've certainly been down that road before.
   154. David Wrightwing obstructionist Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:36 PM (#2629631)
they mention Jeffy Wilpon talking in Spring Training about having Gomez and F-Mart as his starting outfield in 2009. Omar may have been getting pressure to move him from both directions.

Sounds similar to an 04 trade we made, well I feel better now...
   155. Sean McNally Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:36 PM (#2629632)
Nick Johnson is useless.


You misspelled injured.

Although, it might be time to send my former non-sexual mancrush to an AL team... maybe he's part of a deal with Oakland - he's a prototypical Moneyball guy: good on-base skills, some power, good reasonable contract.

In looking at the Rule 5 draft - maybe the Nats should go and try to strike gold with another player - a first baseman-type: Jamie D'Antona, Eric Duncan, or the like.
   156. HowardMegdal Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:37 PM (#2629633)
Conference call at 3- anyone have any suggested questions?
   157. Metman died today. Or yesterday maybe, Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:37 PM (#2629634)
So um . . . the Estrada deal -- in combination with not signing Torrealba leads to the loss of Milledge.


And the money they saved on Mota goes to Schneider, so it wasn't exactly giving up a $2 mil promise for nothing.
   158. Dan Szymborski Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:38 PM (#2629635)
Dan simply used 1.00 for the new park (assuming that Dan is me Dan and not, say, Mug or Abrams). I only predicted RFK factors prior to play a few years ago because RFK had been used before and there were still some parks left that I could make a relative comparison to.
   159. The District Attorney Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:38 PM (#2629636)
Conference call at 3- anyone have any suggested questions?
"Are you the biggest idiot ever?"
   160. Gambling Rent Czar Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:39 PM (#2629637)
Nick Johnson is useless
.You misspelled injured.


where is he going to play if/when healthy?
they just signed Dmitri.

he is useless.
   161. rfloh Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:39 PM (#2629638)
#156

Oakland has no place for Johnson. They do have a HUGE GAPING hole in CF.

Ugh.
   162. aleskel Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:40 PM (#2629639)
Willie Randolph hates black people?

well, no wonder he and Torre got along so well together!
   163. Chris Needham Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:40 PM (#2629640)
Is Ryan Church arbitration eligible?
Next year I guess.


The way they've jerked him around, he's Super-2.
   164. PreservedFish Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:40 PM (#2629641)
It's obvious he didn't really want Johnny Estrada, and while it's fine to take him on for a few days to get rid of Mota, the problem with that is that it also meant NOT signing Torrealba, which now means losing Lastings Milledge instead.

Sam, you are constructing your own narrative here. If this is the sequence of events - then yes, it makes him look massively dumb. But the Torrealba deal exploded for still-unexplained reasons long before we even heard a rumor about Estrada/Mota.

And I think your sequence seems unlikely. For Omar to kill the Torrealba deal at the 11th hour because he had a new chance to get a catcher that he preferred, only to decide a couple weeks later that the new catcher was actually inadequate ... it suggests a level of confusion and rudderlessness that is an issue quite seperate from the shaky talent evaluation on display today.
   165. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:40 PM (#2629642)
OT, but does anyone know if there was any MSM backlash for the A's back when they were the Jason Giambi Play Like An All Star Party Like A Rock Star F**** Like A P*** Star A's?
   166. Gambling Rent Czar Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:40 PM (#2629643)
Conference call at 3- anyone have any suggested questions?


Arbitration status on Church.
   167. Oriole Tragic is totally awesome in the postseason Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:41 PM (#2629645)
#131:

Thanks for the reply. That helps some.

Still, the kid played league-average ball for 60 games last season. This thread will probably have fifty or so "OMFG Omarz pwn3d!1!" posts before we're through. You'd think Omar traded, well, Delmon Young.

Is Milledge a player that you have to see to believe (in)? I've never seen him play. He must have torn the cover off of it in the minors. I didn't look those numbers up.

I'm not at all saying the mourners are totally wrong, but I'm not making the connection between the numbers and the severity of the outcry.
   168. birdlives is one crazy ninja Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:41 PM (#2629646)
Apparently Minaya said today that he offered Milledge to Baltimore, but the O's weren't interested.

Are you ####### kidding me? MacPhail isn't going to do squat this offseason.
   169. Sean McNally Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:42 PM (#2629648)
where is he going to play if/when healthy?
they just signed Dmitri.

he is useless.


That makes him superfluous, not useless.

There's been rumblings maybe his hip is worse than thought, but if he comes back, he and Dmitri would make a very nice R-L platoon at first base. Heck, maybe punt defense all together and mover Zimmerman to short (he played a bit in 06) and Young to third.

Having too many serviceable parts is never useless.
   170. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:42 PM (#2629649)
Rosenthal says that the Mets offered Johnny Estrada to the Nats in the trade, free of charge, but that the Nats preferred to look elsewhere for a Schneider replacement.

Hmm, so Estrada is worth less than nothing. Trading Mota for him was still the right decision.

It seems odd to have baseball players whose contracts give them negative trade value. I mean, this isn't the NBA, and Estrada's deal isn't exactly as crippling as Theo Ratliff's. There's no salary cap, just waive the guy already, he's a sunk cost.
   171. Sam M. Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:42 PM (#2629650)
Trading Mota for Estrada and then dumping Estrada is still smart.

Fine. Then do that after signing Torrealba, instead of trading Milledge for Brian Schneider. The Estrada move was NOT smart as a substitute for signing Torrealba if it left the Mets still believing they needed a catcher, which then left them willing to make this trade. You cannot convince me that the Mets are better off with this:

Church
Schneider

Than they would have been with this:

Milledge
Torrealba
Mota

And never having seen or contemplated Johnny Estrada at all. And I say this even though I loathe Mota and am happy to see him gone. I would be glad to erase the whole sequence and start over, sign the stupid deal and overpay Torrealba, if it means keeping Lastings Milledge in the fold.
   172. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:42 PM (#2629651)
There are two questions I have right now.

Why is Milledge's value amongst GMs so much lower than it is amongst "stathead" fans? The guy has tools and stats. You'd think Beane or Epstein or someone would have topped this offer.

Howard, ask Omar if Schneider is going to be the number 1 catcher or if Castro is going to get more playing tim.
   173. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:43 PM (#2629652)
Conference call at 3- anyone have any suggested questions?


Is this even legal?
   174. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:43 PM (#2629653)
I'd like to see Mr High Standard's take on this.
   175. Guapo Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:43 PM (#2629654)
Yay toolsy outfielders!
   176. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:43 PM (#2629655)
Conference call at 3- anyone have any suggested questions?
Has Omar had his children taken away yet?
   177. Cris E Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:43 PM (#2629656)
Nick could save some wear and tear by DHing in MN. Package up Millidge, Johnson, Cordero and a prospect or two and who knows.
   178. David Wrightwing obstructionist Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:43 PM (#2629657)
Conference call at 3- anyone have any suggested questions?

Whats your home address?
   179. Chris Needham Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:44 PM (#2629658)
Dan simply used 1.00 for the new park (assuming that Dan is me Dan and not, say, Mug or Abrams). I only predicted RFK factors prior to play a few years ago because RFK had been used before and there were still some parks left that I could make a relative comparison to.

Supposedly the winds will be coming in from center, but compared to RFK, it's a bandbox. The area from CF to the RF gap is as much as 25-30 feet closer in a few spots.
   180. Cowboy Popup Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:44 PM (#2629659)
Conference call at 3- anyone have any suggested questions?

Ask him if he has a time machine. And then if he does, ask him if he's going to use the Time Machine to go back in time and reverse the trade or if he used it to go forward and saw that this was the right trade to make. I think the former is more plausible then the latter because I don't think you can know how the trade will work in the future unless you've already made it.
   181. Kyle S Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:44 PM (#2629660)
Sorry, Dan. I read somewhere that someone did as I described and came up with a 1.00 PF for DC. You should feel flattered that I thought it was you :)

After some searching, I see it was Nate Silver on Prospectus Unfiltered.

Link
   182. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:44 PM (#2629661)
It seems odd to have baseball players whose contracts give them negative trade value. I mean, this isn't the NBA, and Estrada's deal isn't exactly as crippling as Theo Ratliff's. There's no salary cap, just waive the guy already, he's a sunk cost.

If the Mets non-tender Estrada, they owe him nothing.
   183. HowardMegdal Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:45 PM (#2629662)
Expected games for Schneider/Castro breakdown
Arb status on Church
My personal question- what did the Mets reasonably expect from Milledge in 2008, and were they comfortable with him in RF every day?
   184. aleskel Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:46 PM (#2629664)
F**** Like A P*** Star A's?

does the nanny block the word porn?

EDIT: guess not.
   185. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:46 PM (#2629665)
What kind of ####### idiot GM would trade for a documented anti-semite to play for the Mets? Mr. "All Jews are Doomed to Hell" Church ain't gonna go over big in Long Island.
   186. Honkie Kong Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:46 PM (#2629667)
Conference call at 3- anyone have any suggested questions?


Did Bowden also return the compromising pictures he had of you?

The Mets basically have the same team as 07, and the only improvement will be if pedro is healthy. Anyone thinks this is a even bigger reason for them to roll the the dice and go after Bedard/Santana now? Beltran/Alou aren't getting younger.

Is Milledge a player that you have to see to believe (in)? I've never seen him play. He must have torn the cover off of it in the minors. I didn't look those numbers up.

I'm not at all saying the mourners are totally wrong, but I'm not making the connection between the numbers and the severity of the outcry


Because he is young, going to improve and can play CF?
   187. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:46 PM (#2629668)
If this were my fantasy league, I'm pretty sure this trade would be vetoed by the other owners as being too one-sided.

Someone with a sim video game should propose this trade to the computer and see if they accept it or not.
   188. PreservedFish Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:46 PM (#2629669)
Do they look at Church as a platoon player?
How did Milledge's off-field foibles factor in?
Not worried about trading him in division?
   189. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:47 PM (#2629670)
Thanks for the reply. That helps some.

Still, the kid played league-average ball for 60 games last season. This thread will probably have fifty or so "OMFG Omarz pwn3d!1!" posts before we're through. You'd think Omar traded, well, Delmon Young.

Is Milledge a player that you have to see to believe (in)? I've never seen him play. He must have torn the cover off of it in the minors. I didn't look those numbers up.

I'm not at all saying the mourners are totally wrong, but I'm not making the connection between the numbers and the severity of the outcry.


If you have Player A, let's call him Mastings Lilledge and you're reasonably sure he's going to produce X runs above average next year and might produce X+a large sum of runs in the future and another team has Player B...Cyan Rhurch...and he's a reasonable bet to produce X runs above average next year, but never more, and they offer him to you in addition to Player C...Srian Bchneider...who is a reasonable bet to produce somewhere betwee 0 and a large negative number of runs next year and costs 5 million dollars a year for two more years...you keep Player A.

/run on
   190. Honkie Kong Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:47 PM (#2629672)
Dan simply used 1.00 for the new park (assuming that Dan is me Dan and not, say, Mug or Abrams). I only predicted RFK factors prior to play a few years ago because RFK had been used before and there were still some parks left that I could make a relative comparison to.

Its easier than typing your last name ! And yes, I was referring to you
   191. manchestermets Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:47 PM (#2629673)
I'll vote for horrible trade. They've given up their best young player*, and haven't actually improved any position on the team. How is that anything other than a disaster trade?

*Well, not best young player, but best about to break through type player. YKWIM.
   192. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:48 PM (#2629675)
Howard,

You need to ask why would the Mets trade someone who has a chance to be a star for two guys who don't. One of them who hit .230 last year, and the other one who has a tendency to get injured pretty frequently.
   193. The District Attorney Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:48 PM (#2629676)
You cannot convince me that the Mets are better off with this:

Church
Schneider

Than they would have been with this:

Milledge
Torrealba
Mota
Of course not, but I'm trying to convince you that Milledge was going for Church and Schneider regardless of whether we got Estrada or not. Do you think Omar thought having Estrada required them to make a move for a catcher more than not having ANY catcher would have? It doesn't make logic.
   194. Jay Is Simply Without Words Today... Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:48 PM (#2629677)
I simply can't stand it anymore. Mets management is a complete joke.
   195. aleskel Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:48 PM (#2629678)
What kind of ####### idiot GM would trade for a documented anti-semite to play for the Mets? Mr. "All Jews are Doomed to Hell" Church ain't gonna go over big in Long Island.

eh, doesn't sound like outright anti-semitism to me. Sounds more like ... ya know ... Christian dogma. Its like someone being called an anti-semite for saying that the Jews killed Jesus.
   196. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:49 PM (#2629679)
Whatever it is, Church is a #########.
   197. Gaelan Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:49 PM (#2629680)
This trade is hilarious (and I like the Mets). The next time a Mets fan around here talks about how his team shouldn't trade x prospect for Johan Santana or some other star player I'm going to remind him that if his team doesn't make that deal something worse is right around the corner.

This trade is inexplicable. To think that a couple days ago Milledge had been mentioned for the likes of Bedard, Haren, Santana etc. and now instead they get Ryan Church and Brian freakin' Schneider. That's simply an unbelievable turn of events. Being a Mets fan must be torture. You have all the resources in the world and a GM that has sunk to Krivsky levels. What a waste of time and talent.

No amount of snark can do this trade justice.
   198. PreservedFish Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:49 PM (#2629681)
Is Milledge a player that you have to see to believe?

Milledge was touted as the best high school position player in the draft, with off the chart tools. And he's produced at every level, including the majors. So combine great tools with solid production at young ages and you have what appears to be a future star. Pretty simple equation.
   199. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:49 PM (#2629682)
EDIT: guess not.

I'm at work.
   200. rfloh Posted: November 30, 2007 at 08:49 PM (#2629683)
#168

His numbers in the minors are good, for his age and level. Just like being league average in MLB at 22 is good.

No, he isn't Delmon. He isn't Justin Upton. He is comparable to Adam Jones. He is comparable to Chris Young.

Brian Schneider is a catcher with the following OPS+ over the last 5 years: 78, 83, 97, 72, 77. So, your typical all glove no hit catcher.

He isn't cheap either: $10M /2.

The outcry? Ryan Church is 29 and marginally better than Milledge. If you squint, maybe 1 win better. Again, this is assuming that Milledge at 22 is fully formed, and never improves.
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