Mike Piazza’s got a new autobiography in the bookstores, and I spent a week sort of semi-obsessed with it. I can’t figure out precisely why this particular ex-ballplayer’s memoir got inside my head. But I have a couple of ideas.
One, the book is exceptionally well-written, which isn’t all that surprising, considering Piazza’s co-author was Lonnie Wheeler, who’s written or co-written a number of fine books over the years… And two, Mike Piazza—and I should be very clear that when I write “Mike Piazza,” I’m referring to the character we meet in the book—comes across as something of a case study in narcissism…
Mike Piazza really, really, really gives a damn what everybody thinks about him.
He really wants you to think he was a great hitter. Piazza hit 427 home runs in his career, and he mentions something like a hundred of them. He’s got the record for the most home runs by a catcher. And right after the section where he talks about breaking the old record, he launches into an extended discourse about what a great player he was. Like he’s trying to convince us, yes ... but also as if maybe he’s trying to convince himself.
He really wants us to think he’s not gay, and that beautiful women—Playboy models mostly, and Baywatch actresses—find him incredibly appealing. I wish the otherwise-estimable index listed mentions of “Playmate”, “Baywatch”, and “actress”. But there are a lot of them in there…
I really can’t recommend this book to readers. Again, it’s well-written. But there just isn’t enough material that isn’t Mike Piazza begging for validation…
here’s the one paragraph that best encapsulates Piazza in all his pleading, narcissistic glory:
I’d be less than truthful if I didn’t admit my legacy is something I ponder quite a bit. Mostly, it bewilders me. I honestly don’t know why it is, exactly, that, from start to finish, I’ve been the object of so much controversy, resentment, skepticism, scrutiny, criticism, rumor, and doubt. I’ve thought about it quite a bit. Maybe it’s because my dad was rich. Maybe it’s because Tommy Lasorda looked after me. Maybe it’s because, off the field, I didn’t make much news on my own account and the press figured it had to latch on to something that resembled it. Maybe it’s because I was a jerk from time to time. Whatever the reason, I suppose I might be a little oversensitive about it all, except that I feel I’m defending more than just my reputation. I’m standing up for what I consider to be—deeply wish to be—a fundamentally and triumphantly American story.
That’s some speech. I doubt if those words came straight from Mike Piazza’s lips. Which is one reason I’m reluctant to engage in psychoanalysis (the other is that I’m incredibly unqualified). But the “Mike Piazza” within the pages of this book is a sad, lonely man who seems little closer to adulthood than the brat who blew off Roy Campanella’s funeral 20 years ago.
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1. Gonna break my Rusty Kuntz and run . . . Arbitol Posted: March 04, 2013 at 08:42 AM (#4380027)The whole furor over Anne Hathaway's Oscar dress, which was bad enough for her to issue a public apology for wearing it, really makes me question our whole society in regards to how we relate to stars.
Also, Neyer, like a lot of Americans, is confusing wealth and class: the Piazzas had wealth, sure, but they're never going to make it into a certain social class. All the being in the right place at the right time isn't going to fix it.
Just don't mention anything to Mark Knudson.
It seemed to me that almost everyone came down on his side.
It seemed to me that almost everyone came down on his side.
While it's possible to chalk the whole thing up as a bunch of nothing, if you're going to take a side, it's damn near impossible to come down on Clemens' side unless you're some kind of psychopath.
Guy hits other guy in the head with fastball.
In very next meeting, guy who hit guy in the head throws broken bat in general direciton of guy he previously beaned.
The End.
I don't think he was; that's why the reviewer calls him narcissistic.
By the way, I can't actually recall a single person, anywhere, defending Clemens.
Other than me, of course.
Who knows because we're not in his head, but I can see him being so amp'd up by the situation -- World Series and the Piazza issue -- that when the bat piece comes flying at him, he initially thinks it's the ball and by the time he picks it up he realizes it's the bat and just kind of aggressively chucks it off the field. No reason for Piazza to be running down the line on a foul ball and Clemens did not wing it in the air at him, but rather threw it into the ground. Clemens then seems a bit out of it and -- this would be an odd reaction for someone who threw a bat at someone -- isn't ready for a fight, isn't looking for a fight, isn't expecting a fight. Has turned the other way and is asking for another ball, even tells Piazza that he thought it was the ball... That reaction doesn't really square with someone who intended to peg someone else with a bat.
The problem is that the bat coming at Clemens there was a million to one. You act as if bats come flying at pitchers every inning, and this time Clemens picked it up and tried to bean Piazza with it.
And again, there was no reason for Piazza to be halfway down the line, and the reaction by Clemens _after_ he threw it was bizarre.
I'm not saying Clemens couldn't have seen Piazza there and in the heat of the moment purposely threw the bat at him, but the certainty with which other people can read Clemens's mind and tell you exactly what he was thinking in a bizarre situation is laughable.
I'm not saying anything about Clemens' actions. I was merely pointing out that if you're going to take a side in the matter of Clemens v. Piazza, there's no justification to come down as pro-Clemens/anti-Piazza. You can be neutral on the matter or pro-Piazza, but you can't be pro-Clemens because Piazza never did anything. He had a ball hit him in the head and a bat shard thrown in his general direction. That's the extent of his involvement.
I suppose you could be upset at him for being halfway down the line when he had no reason to be, but that's kind of a bizarre thing to criticize a guy for.
Maybe, but not very well researched. Mr. Piazza, when you decide to put into print that Vin Scully threw you under the bus in an interview back in 1998, it might behoove you to actually look up said interview online and watch it again - like thousands of people have done after the book came out. Scully was his usual professional self in the very interview Piazza was referencing and in no way even remotely threw Piazza under any bus. Now that many people have obviously pointed this out to Piazza he is backpedaling on the Scully comments, but it never should have come to this. Piazza's comments never should have made it into the book in the first place and probably wouldn't have, if Piazza had bothered to learn how to use a computer. This is the internet age, Mike - as Casey Stengel used to say, "You could look it up".
This is hilarious. Someone still thinks "class" matters. This is a throwback to an attitude of a time that is no longer with us, thank goodness. "Class" is about being "born into" a certain social strata, and 100% of the people who ever believed in that BS believe that it was "God's will" or some idiotic such thing that they "deserve" to be "better" than others. I've got news for you - it wasn't true in the year 585, it wasn't true in 1585, it wasn't true in 1985, it isn't true now, and it will NEVER be true. It's BS, and the public at large doesn't buy the BS any more. Furthermore, all the organizations based on this attitude - that only "the right people" can belong to - are dinosaurs that are gradually dying out - deservedly so. Welcome to the 21st century.
And with Roger having been a pallbearer, the contrast is really stark.
(I attended a lecture once where the speaker talks about meeting Robert Redford, who spent their whole conversation complaining that he wasn't Paul Newman)
Mike thought Vin was a big meanie.
Sure he did. He acted like a jackass and concluded that Clemens had hit him on purpose. He approached Clemens aggressively on the field. He refused to take Clemens's call after the game. Perhaps he was justified in that, perhaps not.
No. He helped escalate the situation on the field, and then fanned the flames off the field by refusing to take Clemens's call and going along with the media hype about a non-issue.
Yes, a non-issue. Piazza had had success off of Clemens. Big whoop. Then Clemens went up and in on him and it hit him in the head. Big whoop. There's no evidence Clemens was throwing at him. I watched Clemens pitch in maybe 100 games. When Clemens wanted to hit someone it was clear: he threw right at their waist. Clemens did not hit people in the head because they had success off of him. Please show me evidence of that general pattern on his part. Clemens would back people off the plate, sure. He would never intentionally bean them in the head. The entire "controversy" heading into the World Series was media-generated, mostly because they thought the Subway Series was a big deal, and Piazza bought in.
Well, there obviously still is (and was) such a thing as class as distinct from wealth in America. Go read the Great Gatsby, or see the kind of culture in which college professors (relatively poor) and truck drivers (relatively rich) live. Try to get yourself into a Manhattan co-op based on wealth alone.
I'm fairly certain I came down on the side of the equation that said "Ehh, it was nothing, probably not intentional, you Mets fans are reading way too much into it" side of the equation.
Getting hit in the head is something that tends to bother guys, regardless of intent.
Piazza had a few angry words on the field, but went no further. And he didn't take Roger's phone call. If you want the textbook definition of "big whoop," there it is.
You're free to defend Clemens' actions as insifignificant, and you can even do so without being a total moron. But you can't make a credible case against Piazza without coming off as a lunatic Roger fanboy. Sorry, it's not possible.
So he is gay?
Does he mean you guys?
I'm discovering that class can play a very similar role in English culture/history. There are a lot more visible (and perhaps more imporantly audible) class distinctions here, and it plays a larger role in how people interact. I mean, class exists in North America. My mother's family comes from an academic background, while my dad's are rural working class. The two family gatherings are very different affairs that call for fairly different behaviour. But class divisions are somehow much more evident in the UK.
I'm not sure what Canada's dominant theme revolves around...Quebec separatism/distinct society business? Regionalist Rivalry? Its inferiority complex regarding America?
Has anyone seen the American version of Shameless? I've only seen the British show, so much of it is bound up in distinctly British ideas about class that I'd be curious how it would translate. Not that I don't think it can. The two Offices are a pretty interesting study in how a show can adapt to a new cultural context and manage to be different and yet still a good show.
I think it has become more about the money in the UK too the last thirty-forty years or so. But class in the UK used to be about a whole lot other markers than money, the best a millionaire from the working classes could hope for was to get his children accepted in high society. The flip side is that being poor wasn't a disqualifier from being part of the upper classes.
He gets pluncked in the head by Clemens.
He's upset and refuses to speak with him after Clemens calls the clubhouse to speak with you probably to apologize and tell you the ball got away.
Piazza then faces Clemens in the World Series and gets his bat shattered by Clemens, who proceeds to throw said broken bat in Piazza's way. The fact that he just stood there and whinned like a little girl was pretty pathetic. So what if they would have thrown you out of the game. You may have given you team the spark they needed.
You then admit in a book you were taking karate lessons in case you ran up against Clemens against. I'm pretty sure you played him again the next year in an interleague game.
Nope.
I think that's 100% spot on.
Indeed. Moreover, I've observed a lot more narcissism (amateur diagnosis, of course) amongst the "I don't give a f*** what people think, I do what I WANT" crowd.
This is like practicing really hard to call a girl up and ask her out after you failed to take the earlier opportunity, but you're ultimately so afraid you never do it.
Piazza admitted in the book that part of him was afraid Clemens would kick his ass.
Jaime: I could care less what people think of me.
Tywin: That's what you want people to think of you.
[editorial comment: apparently the Kingslayer hasn't been reading our grammar threads]
What a pathetic waste of time. I always knew I'd be ultimately too scared to do it so I spent my time doing valuable things like sorting baseball cards rather than practicing talking to girls.
This is the bizarre part, for most competitive athletes admitting something like that would be harder than anything else on the list - admitting it takes more courage than actually fighting Clemens would have taken...
Some people try to do this, but I don't think it ultimately works. Slavery was, of course, one of the largest and most controversial institutions in American history, and segregation/civil rights were as well. But I don't think there were any Americans who would have argued that slavery was the point, the goal, the thing that they actually wanted to get out of the American experience. It was an ugly means to an end.
In contrast, there are lots of people who came to America for the purpose of religious expression, for example. Lots of towns got founded by religious orders or were consciously designed with religious principles in mind. There were many, many people who saw freedom of religion as their primary goal, and there have been four or five revival movements that more or less shaped public life for a generation or so. You could make similar arguments with respect to economic prosperity or the expansion into unsettled lands.
Burn the heretic! BURN HIM!!!
Yeah, that struck a note with me as well. Of course, Clemens was a BIG guy, and had a reputation for being aggressive and intense; I don't think it's a huge loss of face for a ballplayer outside the McGwire/Bonds/Bagwell weight class to balk at tussling with Clemens and admit it in public.
Not that I disagree generally, but when you publish a book about them, aren't you asking for a public discussion of actions, motivations and emotions?
I just googled it and yeah, it is. In the very next paragraph he complains about the "are you straight or are you gay?" line in the song "Piazza, New York Catcher". I'm not joking.
This deserves its own thread.
You skipped the recent rights thread here?
from Travesties: (Henry Carr recalling James Joyce)
"an essentially private man, who wished his total indifference to public acclaim be universally recognized"
Interesting choice of words.
The saddest book I ever read. It always makes me cry.
My ears are burning.
Fixed. Yes, it really is in there.
And I half expected the first post of this thread to be Admiral Akbar warning me that it's a trap.
I thought it was a same=homo pun.
He had a surface serenity about him: he seemed pretty thoughtful.
He also was professional about his media responsibilities.
And he also had what I guess what they later called a 'metrosexual' sense of hygiene/decorum, which only in a pro sports locker room/clubhouse could be confused with homosexuality. He didn't scratch himself, fart, burp, or other inanities in a crowd, and he knew how to dress and groom himself properly - which did kind of stand out, a little. But that's not his fault.
A lot of athletes - Mussina the Stanford grad would be my favorite example - take some time to compose their thoughts after taking a question because, well, there's a lot going on up there.
Piazza was not in that intellectual class, obviously - yet he wasn't dumb by baseball clubhouse standards, either. He didn't just lapse into mindless cliches; he was willing to take on a reasonable question and try to provide a usable answer, which is much more than a lot of superstars are willing to do.
The Scully hullabaloo didn't surprise me: He had a genuine sentiment/remembrance of the time, and he said so. It would be an egregious error for a journalist not to check his facts, and ideally anyone else would, too. But that's Piazza. I think he gave an honest account of his emotions, which he typically did.
The idea of the rich parents and how that may have left him defensive - that fascinates me.
It also feels genuine. Are we ready to rip into people who tell their own tales, even if they haven't figured out how to dissect the exact reasons they feel that way?
Whatever base he started from, where Piazza ended up is pretty damn impressive....
It's amusing that much is made here of Clemens, but nothing much is made of Pedro's admission that he intentionally threw at 90% of those batters he hit. Cry me a river.
As I said, I can't blame Piazza for thinking what he clearly thinks, regardless of what Clemens' actual intent was. I like the way both he and Clemens approached the game.
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Howie: Good take and well expressed. I'll buy Piazza's book when it gets remaindered and look forward to reading it.
"Howie: Good take and well expressed."
thanks: I should do this for a living!
joke, yes, but I really do appreciate the cogent response.
Pedro is the patron saint of pitching for BBTF. Clemens not so much.
That thread's been done.
This view may not explain other people's takes on the matter.
When will you next be in Alabama?
Not that I have anything against you or your fingers, but I do find your theory intriguing & am interested in testing it.
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