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Thursday, April 15, 2010

OT: NHL Playoff Thread

I estimate that only 10-12 Primates care about the NHL Playoffs, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: the NBA playoffs and Pavement’s discography.

Cabbage Posted: April 15, 2010 at 03:44 PM | 1758 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1101. mex4173 Posted: June 01, 2011 at 02:33 PM (#3842385)
I would consider it a huge letdown, no question.
   1102. ursus arctos Posted: June 01, 2011 at 04:07 PM (#3842475)
Collie has finally stepped aside. Shanahan to take over the discipline czar role.

My money is on Collie being revealed as the guy in the Bruin suit at the first home game of the finals.
   1103. steagles Posted: June 01, 2011 at 05:21 PM (#3842537)

Collie has finally stepped aside. Shanahan to take over the discipline czar role.
oh, thank ####### christ.


with the NFL and NBA seasons up in the air due to labor strife, having an even somewhat competent league office could enable the NHL to make significant gains in viewership throughout this country. it'll certainly make me feel a whole lot less dirty for watching out of town games, at least to start.
   1104. scotto Posted: June 01, 2011 at 05:48 PM (#3842568)
I posted this in the Lounge originally, but the Moose would be a travesty for a prairie city. Winnipeg Métis, Louis Reils, Flax, General Strike, or Poohs would be more appropriate.
   1105. Random Transaction Generator Posted: June 01, 2011 at 06:47 PM (#3842638)
It has to be the Jets, to the point that I really think it will be a huge letdown for Winnipeg fans if it's not the Jets.

I was originally a believer in calling them the Jets, but the stats side of me rebelled.
There would be two sets of "Winnipeg Jets" career/season leaders, and they wouldn't have been for the same team.
Let's assume that to end his career, Teemu Selanne signs with the "new Winnipeg Jets", and has another season like the last one.
30+ goals and 80 or so points, and enough to lead the (rather weak) team.
He would then be the season record holder in goals and points for the Winnipeg Jets and the Winnipeg Jets.

Winnipeg Métis, Louis Reils, Flax, General Strike, or Poohs would be more appropriate.

If people get antsy/upset about "Indians", I don't think "Métis" is going to fly.
And naming a team after someone who actively fought against the government isn't such a good idea either.

I think "Winnipeg Whiteouts", "Manitoba Marauders", "Winnipeg Northerners", "Manitoba Prairiemen", or "Winnipeg Rivermen"
   1106. steagles Posted: June 01, 2011 at 07:25 PM (#3842715)
I was originally a believer in calling them the Jets, but the stats side of me rebelled.
i take it you're not a fan of the cleveland browns, then.
   1107. mex4173 Posted: June 01, 2011 at 07:33 PM (#3842725)
Maybe a little too on the nose, but they could be called the Flood.
   1108. John DiFool2 Posted: June 02, 2011 at 03:34 AM (#3843049)
Meanwhile, on the actual hockey rink, the Nyuk-Nyuks win with a goal with 16 seconds left in the final period.
   1109. Justin T is going to crush some tacos Thursday Posted: June 02, 2011 at 03:42 AM (#3843051)
The current Cleveland Browns were specifically arranged to be the same franchise as the old Browns. Modell didn't get to take that with him.

No such arrangement for Winnipeg and the Jets.
   1110. JL Posted: June 02, 2011 at 01:05 PM (#3843157)
Meanwhile, on the actual hockey rink, the Nyuk-Nyuks win with a goal with 16 seconds left in the final period.

An intense game with a bite thrown in. Does Campbell deal with the discipline on that one, or does it go to Shanahan?
   1111. Mister High Standards Posted: June 02, 2011 at 01:25 PM (#3843168)
That was an insanely good game. Very disappointing results but wonderful game.
   1112. Cabbage Posted: June 03, 2011 at 01:57 PM (#3844170)
Campbell already stepped aside for the finals games because his son plays for Boston.
   1113. John DiFool2 Posted: June 07, 2011 at 03:40 AM (#3847189)
Humiliations galore for the Canucks tonite, but it always seems like this kind of momentum lasts only one game...
   1114. zack Posted: June 07, 2011 at 02:10 PM (#3847326)
Blackhawks made it last two. I had the Canucks winning in five, with the Bruins only win their first home game, so this didn't surprise me at all. Canucks get lazy and undisciplined when they have a series lead.

Recchi taunting LaPierre by sticking a finger in his face was awesome. Rome bringing another Canucks cheapshot, only he'll actually draw a suspension because he's a 8th defenseman.
   1115. JL Posted: June 07, 2011 at 06:17 PM (#3847553)
Rome bringing another Canucks cheapshot, only he'll actually draw a suspension because he's a 8th defenseman.

Four game suspension for Rome.
   1116. steagles Posted: June 08, 2011 at 12:08 AM (#3847826)
the flyers have traded for impending UFA ilya bryzgalov.


hopefully this turns out better than the situation with dan hamhuis last year.
   1117. steagles Posted: June 08, 2011 at 12:11 AM (#3847830)
oh, and on a related note, the flyers will next have a draft pick in 2017.


i'd have to think that the organization's complete disdain for draft picks will come back to haunt them at some point.
   1118. zack Posted: June 09, 2011 at 01:33 AM (#3848899)
Man, Shanahan has to get absolutely fascist about embellishment next year. Video review after the games, and 10 games for your first offense, 25 for your second, 82 for third. Get rid of that #### before it becomes endemic.
   1119. zack Posted: June 09, 2011 at 01:40 AM (#3848907)
Also, Keith Ballard sucks. And Luongo is as deep in his net as Thomas is not.
   1120. The Ghost's Tryin' to Reason with Hurricane Season Posted: June 14, 2011 at 01:16 AM (#3852519)
Luongo is lucky that Game 7 is scheduled to be in Vancouver. Not that I am not presuming a Boston victory tonight.
   1121. Brian C Posted: June 16, 2011 at 02:50 AM (#3854471)
A just end. The Canucks simply weren't a worthy Cup winner, with their -11 goal differential in the playoffs, their 3-6 record in potential closeout games, and their supposed best players mostly disappearing for long stretches of time throughout the postseason.

Congrats to Bruins fans. Well done.
   1122. The Ghost's Tryin' to Reason with Hurricane Season Posted: June 16, 2011 at 02:53 AM (#3854474)
BROOOOINS!
   1123. Famous Original Joe C Posted: June 16, 2011 at 05:03 AM (#3854595)
Well #### me.
   1124. DA Baracus Posted: June 16, 2011 at 05:17 AM (#3854597)
vomit
   1125. Cabbage Posted: June 16, 2011 at 01:25 PM (#3854694)
Ha.
   1126. steagles Posted: June 23, 2011 at 08:28 PM (#3860723)
so, carter and richards, huh?
   1127. steagles Posted: June 23, 2011 at 08:57 PM (#3860774)
   1128. zack Posted: June 23, 2011 at 09:15 PM (#3860811)
Wow.

Can't believe they found someone willing to take Carter's contract.

If this is all to sign Bryzgalov for $6mil+, then the Flyers management are some wild and crazy guys.
   1129. Jimmy P Posted: June 23, 2011 at 09:22 PM (#3860825)
If this is all to sign Bryzgalov for $6mil+, then the Flyers management are some wild and crazy guys.

That's crazy. I'm sure the Flyers fans will be levelheaded about it.
   1130. steagles Posted: June 23, 2011 at 09:34 PM (#3860842)
Attention hockey fans. The NBA draft trade craziness has nothing on the NHL. The Flyers just traded Jeff Carter, Mike Richards, and Kris Versteeg in three separate deals a week before the NHL Entry Draft. If Steagles is a hockey fan, we're going to need to talk him off the ledge.
hadn't heard about versteeg yet, but no, there's no need to talk me off a ledge. at least for now.

Can't believe they found someone willing to take Carter's contract.

that's not surprising to me. carter's a great defensive center, he's great in the faceoff circle, and he can go on tears, scoring 15 goals in a month. he's the real loss here.

as for richards, i don't want to play armchair psychologist, but he was never committed to reaching his potential. he had career highs of 30 goals and 50 assists in 2009, but since then, he's really just been playing out the string. he's talented enough that despite that, he's still a very good player, but as captain, that's just unacceptable. add to that the no trade clause and the $51+ million he's still owed, and yeah, i'm not gonna sweat losing him.



and speaking of $51 million, ilya brzygalov, come on down.



really though, it's a shame carter got caught up in this. he's really come into his own the last few seasons, and even though he had to play out of position most of last year, he took it like a pro. it probably isn't the consensus opinion around here, but i'll miss him.
   1131. steagles Posted: June 23, 2011 at 10:01 PM (#3860871)
Real_ESPNLeBrun Pierre LeBrun
Am told Mike Richards was not surprised at being traded and happy he's going to LA
yeah, i'm gonna say that's not a very good sign for the kings.
   1132. zack Posted: June 24, 2011 at 02:32 PM (#3861377)
Richards quickly went from Mike Richards, Gritty Young Captain to mike richards, whiny punk in the media's eyes in a hurry.

I agree Carter is a wonderful player, I just can't imagine trading for him when he's due $5mil for the next 11 years. No way could I commit to anyone but the elite for that length of time, especially since 26 in the NHL isn't 26 in MLB. It'll be nice for Rick Nash to have some company, though.

Do you think the Flyers are better more likely to win a cup today than they were two days ago (assuming they use the extra cap space wisely (edit: forgot Schenn was on an EL contract with a pretty stiff bonus. If he's up, the money's a wash.))? It's also weird that the NHL pieces they got back are all (edit: mostly) RFAs.

I gotta say I do enjoy it when GMs go for broke. Go big or stay home, Holmes!
   1133. Jimmy P Posted: June 24, 2011 at 02:41 PM (#3861384)
It'll be nice for Rick Nash to have some company, though.

It's about damn time. A lot of casual hockey fans don't understand how good this guy is.
   1134. Random Transaction Generator Posted: June 24, 2011 at 02:49 PM (#3861391)
Can't believe they found someone willing to take Carter's contract.

As I understand it, Carter's contract didn't even really begin until the 2011-12 season.
So they signed him in November 2010 to this deal, and then traded him before they had to pay a penny of it.
You don't see that happening much in sports.

That's like (almost) instantaneous buyer's remorse.
   1135. steagles Posted: June 24, 2011 at 03:45 PM (#3861434)
Re: rick nash, I don't think they should put him on carter's wing. They both take a ton of shots, and neither of them are especially good playmakers.

Re: PHI being closer to a cup, let's see how the draft works out. Giroux, JVR, and briere are still coming back to help with the scoring. Pronger, carle, timonen, coburn, and meszaros are returning on the d-line. Bryzgalov'll be in net.

There's potential there, so I'm optimistic
   1136. steagles Posted: June 24, 2011 at 04:52 PM (#3861477)
sounds like pronger is gonna be offered the C. i don't think that's a bad decision, but i think i'd prefer the C on briere. pronger is gonna lead the team regardless of whether he's the captain or an assistant, but if they'd have elevated briere, i think he'd have really grown into the position.
   1137. steagles Posted: June 24, 2011 at 09:24 PM (#3861709)
   1138. steagles Posted: June 25, 2011 at 03:24 AM (#3861983)
derek boogaard is dead. when the hell did that happen?
   1139. Jimmy P Posted: June 25, 2011 at 05:39 PM (#3862190)
Dale Tallon must love him some Brian Campbell. I can't believe the Blackhawks were able to get rid of that contract.
   1140. Justin T is going to crush some tacos Thursday Posted: June 25, 2011 at 06:03 PM (#3862197)
Doug Wilson sucks. Trades high picks like their useless, then wonders why the team can only get scoring from two lines. Tries to get by with AHLers, realizes it won't work and has to dig down for Kyle Wellwood and Ben Eager.

This offseason, Scott Nichol and Jamal Mayers are told to take a hike. Because there are guys in Worcester ready. Oh, and now trade Setoguchi.

This'll work just fine.
   1141. Justin T is going to crush some tacos Thursday Posted: June 25, 2011 at 06:09 PM (#3862198)
Then again, I just remembered that I have been pining for Setoguchi to be off the team for several years as he is a chronic diver POS.

So, nevermind.
   1142. steagles Posted: June 25, 2011 at 06:37 PM (#3862213)

Re: PHI being closer to a cup, let's see how the draft works out.
i'm pretty happy. couturier looks like a player. i'm not exactly sure what to expect from either him or brayden schenn next season, but they look like a hell of an influx of talent down the road, if not right from the start.

looking at what we have now, and assuming that schenn starts the year on the active roster, i think i'd like to see the lines look something like this:
versteeg/simmonds-briere-leino
JVR-giroux-versteeg/simmonds
hartnell-schenn-voracek


i'd really like to try to break up that hartnell-briere-leino line in training camp. it's easy enough to put it back together if you need offense later in the year, but i really think it'd be better for the team if that wasn't something carved in stone from the start of the year, like it was last season.

i also like the idea of putting some size on schenn's wings. voracek's put up 96 points the last two years, and hartnell's capable of netting 30 in a year, so along with the size, you'd get some good skill on that line.

i'm sure that i'd want to keep leino and briere, and JVR and giroux together, but i'm not sure on which line i'd prefer simmonds and versteeg. simmonds' size would look good on briere's wing, but versteeg's quickness on the same wing would create a line that would figure to be very hard to check on open ice.


i'd hope the organization tries to keep the top 3 lines fairly close in terms of skill and talent. it would seem like a bit of a waste of schenn's ability if you have him on a third line with versteeg and simmonds, or even if you try moving him to either briere's or giroux's wing.


anyway, training camp should be fun.
   1143. zack Posted: June 25, 2011 at 09:36 PM (#3862271)
I'm about as big a Brian Campbell fan as you can be, but I'm on record as saying that if you could trade him for literally nothing, you'd have to do it. And it seems basically that's what they did.

Campbell $7.1 for 5 years
Olesz $3.1 for 3 years

Olesz looks severely overpaid as well, but because he's young he gives you a much more attractive buyout, which would give the 'hawks:

$6.7, $7.3, $7.6, $6.5, $6.5 more cap room for the next five years, and $0.6 less space in the 6th year vs. keeping Campbell. Unless revenue explodes like crazy that's a huge addition by subtraction, even though Soupy is a good player.

In the immediate term it's a pretty big step down in talent. The 'hawks went from a top-heavy but very good defense to a paper thin one. Whether this is a good move or a horrible one will depend entirely on how they use the new cap space.
   1144. Cabbage Posted: June 27, 2011 at 04:07 PM (#3863491)
I see the Campbell trade as an attempt to 1) trade a guy a year too early, rather than a year too late and 2) setup a contender for 2012-13.

I thought Campbell was really stinking good, but he's been getting increasingly fragile and he'll have to start dropping off at some point. We're letting a lot ride of Nick Leddy and whoever Stan can connive in a trade (I'm not even gonna begin dreaming of Shea Weber). Makes me nervous.
   1145. DA Baracus Posted: June 27, 2011 at 04:41 PM (#3863521)
i'm pretty happy.


You shouldn't be. The Flyers took huge steps backwards with those trades, Richards and Carter are elite players in their prime. And I can't even blame Holmgren for this mess, it looks like Snider forced this.
   1146. steagles Posted: June 28, 2011 at 01:02 AM (#3863948)
You shouldn't be. The Flyers took huge steps backwards with those trades, Richards and Carter are elite players in their prime. And I can't even blame Holmgren for this mess, it looks like Snider forced this.
they're not elite. they're very good, but there's a top tier of NHL'er, and neither richards nor carter are in it.


anyway,the rumor is that all these dealings have been in an effort to clear enough caproom for the team to sign stamkos to an offer sheet. something like 10/100.


and on a related note, the NHL needs to get rid of restricted free agency at all costs in the next CBA discussion. the driving force behind both richards' and carters' decade long extensions was the fear of losing either of them for an offer sheet. it's obvious that teams are operating out of the fear of losing their best players, and that puts them in a very bad negotiating position.


and it's not so much the cost against the cap that i have an issue with, but rather the decade long commitments that teams are boxed in to making in order to keep their core players. that's not good for the league.


and even if they can't get rid of restricted free agency, they definitely need to push for a limit on how many years a contract can run. that would help in two ways, the first would mean putting an end to the dipietro contracts. the second is that it would really level the playing fields between the top and bottom of the league by limiting the circumvention of the cap that teams like the flyers take advantage of.

in the last two years of briere's contract, he'll be paid 5 million. the cap hit will be 13. in the last two years of pronger's contract, he'll be making 500K. the cap hit each year will be just south of 5 million.

without the extra years on briere's contract, his cap hit would be up around 7.8 instead of 6.5. without the extra years on pronger's contract, his cap hit would be up around 6.7 instead of 4.9.


i mean, getting these concessions wouldn't be worth losing games over, but if they implement these fixes, the game would be significantly more healthy in the long run.
   1147. Justin T is going to crush some tacos Thursday Posted: June 28, 2011 at 01:13 AM (#3863953)
The penalty for signing an RFA of any quality is so steep that teams really shouldn't fear it that much, and I don't think they do. Before this CBA, there weren't these types of contracts. And when Fedorov or Sakic was signed to an offer sheet it was huge news. The length of the contracts is due to the cap, if not completely, then nearly so. It's just so that they can make the cap hit easier to digest, as you point out.

They are silly and I will not complain if something is done that makes them an unattractive option. But they have very little to do with a fear of losing RFAs.
   1148. steagles Posted: June 28, 2011 at 01:25 AM (#3863960)
The penalty for signing an RFA of any quality is so steep that teams really shouldn't fear it that much, and I don't think they do. Before this CBA, there weren't these types of contracts. And when Fedorov or Sakic was signed to an offer sheet it was huge news. The length of the contracts is due to the cap, if not completely, then nearly so. It's just so that they can make the cap hit easier to digest, as you point out.
do you think the flyers are sweating the possibility of losing 4 first round picks to get stamkos?

do you think tampa would feel that to be an adequate substitute for arguably the best player in the world?
   1149. Justin T is going to crush some tacos Thursday Posted: June 28, 2011 at 01:32 AM (#3863962)
I think they should be. And yes, they probably are, since the Stamkos thing is just something pulled out of somebody's butt so far.

Which DiPietro contracts were there when 4 first rounders was the penalty but no salary cap existed?
   1150. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: June 28, 2011 at 01:50 AM (#3863966)
they're not elite. they're very good, but there's a top tier of NHL'er, and neither richards nor carter are in it.


You don't need to be top-tier to be worth keeping. The Bruins learned that after their Cup aspirations got set back five years after they traded Jumbo Joe.
   1151. steagles Posted: June 28, 2011 at 02:27 AM (#3863991)
I think they should be. And yes, they probably are, since the Stamkos thing is just something pulled out of somebody's butt so far.
you're right in that it's just a hypothetical at this point, but supposing it's true...


people talk about the flyers setting themselves back for years with their richards and carter deals, but in those deals, they netted 3 top 10 picks (schenn, couturier, and voracek), plus 3 other assets of moderate value (simmonds, a 3rd round pick, and a 2012 2nd rounder).


4 1st rounders are all well and good, but if stamkos is added to this core, those picks not likely to be in the top half of any of those 1st rounds, and tampa would be losing one of the best players in the world, for 4 guys who would likely be, at best, the 10th best prospect in their draft year.

You don't need to be top-tier to be worth keeping. The Bruins learned that after their Cup aspirations got set back five years after they traded Jumbo Joe.
that was a shitty deal, but the cap space boston opened up in making it was immediately put to use on another player of comparable quality (marc savard).


as for the flyers situation, what you have to understand is that both richards and carter were under contract until 2020. each of them also had a no trade clause set to kick in at the start of the 2012-13 season. if the flyers had kept both of them past that point, they'd have been committing to them as the core of the roster for a decade.

ed snider had apparently seen enough of them to know that he did not want to make that commitment, and so, while he still could, he sent them out of town on a rail. maybe this sets the team back this year (though, with the addition of bryzgalov, i'm not sure that will be the case), but it could very likely also be the fuel that keeps the team in contention for the next decade.
   1152. zack Posted: June 28, 2011 at 02:41 AM (#3864006)
I really don't think fear of having their RFAs poached by offer sheets is what is driving teams to sign ridiculously long contracts. None of Kovalchuk, Hossa, Luongo, or Zetterberg, for example, were RFAs.

What's more, you can literally count the number of players who have accepted offer sheets since the lockout on Antonio Alfonseca's hand. Thomas Vanek is the only (arguably) elite player to ever sign a big money offer sheet, and that has more to do with the Oilers being stupid then any real threat from offer sheets.

No way do the Flyers have the cash to poach Stamkos. Has anyone not from Philadelphia even suggested it?
   1153. steagles Posted: June 28, 2011 at 02:52 AM (#3864015)
No way do the Flyers have the cash to poach Stamkos. Has anyone not from Philadelphia even suggested it?
versteeg, bobrovski, and hartnell make a combined 9 million. all would be easily expendable if stamkos was touchable.


the flyers could make it work if they were so inclined. and i don't think draft picks would be much of a concern on our end.
   1154. DA Baracus Posted: June 28, 2011 at 03:12 AM (#3864033)
they're not elite. they're very good, but there's a top tier of NHL'er, and neither richards nor carter are in it.


Carter is a top goal scorer, few are better at even strength. Richards is a perennial Selke nominee, 60-70 point offense, and was the team captain. They're cornerstones of a franchise, not guys you trade away. The team just took huge steps back.

anyway,the rumor is that all these dealings have been in an effort to clear enough caproom for the team to sign stamkos to an offer sheet. something like 10/100.


A rumor that is 100% BS. It has no traction.
   1155. steagles Posted: June 28, 2011 at 03:39 AM (#3864057)
A rumor that is 100% BS. It has no traction.
july 1 is a few days away. we'll have a better idea around then.
Carter is a top goal scorer, few are better at even strength. Richards is a perennial Selke nominee, 60-70 point offense, and was the team captain. They're cornerstones of a franchise, not guys you trade away. The team just took huge steps back.
i'm a big carter fan, but if they committed to him for this next year, they'd be committing to him for 10. richards is in the same situation.


the decision was made at the top of the organization to get out from under that.
   1156. Yardape Posted: June 28, 2011 at 04:04 AM (#3864073)
maybe this sets the team back this year (though, with the addition of bryzgalov, i'm not sure that will be the case), but it could very likely also be the fuel that keeps the team in contention for the next decade.


Maybe? Carter is better (more valuable) than Bryzgalov. Richards is probably about equal to Bryzgalov, and maybe has more value. Heck, I'm not sure Bryzgalov is even an upgrade on the Flyers' current goalie situation. So they basically gave away two strong forwards to tread water in net. Maybe, in terms of the next decade, this will help the Flyers as you say. But as for next year, I think they clearly took a step backwards. Unless they do sign Stamkos. Then I reserve the right to change my mind.
   1157. Mash Wilson Posted: June 28, 2011 at 04:15 AM (#3864077)
Goalies are like running backs, there are only two of them in the league at any one time actually great enough to make a consistent difference (Thomas), about five that are actually terrible enough to make a consistent difference (Turco the past couple years), and the rest are fungible.

When I heard about the Flyers' latest dispensation of crazy, all I could think was "damn, we could have unloaded Fleury's contract on these guys AND gotten some good stuff back."
   1158. DA Baracus Posted: June 28, 2011 at 04:23 AM (#3864078)
july 1 is a few days away. we'll have a better idea around then.


There's no basis to believe the Stamkos rumor. None. Go ahead and get your hopes up though.

i'm a big carter fan, but if they committed to him for this next year, they'd be committing to him for 10. richards is in the same situation.


They were the cornerstones of the franchise and 26 and 27 years old. Those are the guys you commit to for 10 years. Instead they committed to a 30 year old for 9 years.

Maybe? Carter is better (more valuable) than Bryzgalov. Richards is probably about equal to Bryzgalov, and maybe has more value. Heck, I'm not sure Bryzgalov is even an upgrade on the Flyers' current goalie situation.


Agreed on all but the last sentence. Bryzgalov is an upgrade (Bobrovsky had a very nice season, but I'm not convinced he is the real deal), he's just not enough of an upgrade to warrant losing Carter or Richards (they only "needed" to clear one of them) and the contract he's getting.
   1159. steagles Posted: June 28, 2011 at 02:44 PM (#3864228)
They were the cornerstones of the franchise and 26 and 27 years old. Those are the guys you commit to for 10 years. Instead they committed to a 30 year old for 9 years.



Agreed on all but the last sentence. Bryzgalov is an upgrade (Bobrovsky had a very nice season, but I'm not convinced he is the real deal), he's just not enough of an upgrade to warrant losing Carter or Richards (they only "needed" to clear one of them) and the contract he's getting.


i don't think they could have traded only one of them. i think it had to be a package deal; either you kept them both, or you moved them both.

being somewhat aware of the mechanisms at work behind the trade, i really can't say that i disagree with their decision here. they got better in net, they got bigger on the wings, they got a pair of U20 forwards who are top tier prospects, not just in the flyers' system, but in the entire world.


oh, and there's the stamkos possibility. i know you think that's bullshit, but there's smoke there, and it's not just on flyers message boards. former GM doug maclean seems to be going on radio across the continent pushing the 10/100 rumor. maybe he's wrong, but i really don't think this is as far-fetched as you're convinced it is.
   1160. Copronymus Posted: June 28, 2011 at 03:53 PM (#3864328)
doug maclean seems to be going on radio across the continent pushing the 10/100 rumor. maybe he's wrong, but i really don't think this is as far-fetched as you're convinced it is.


There's no maybe there. Doug MacLean is a tremendous idiot with a long history of being wrong about everything. Even if the Stamkos thing somehow happens, he won't have known what was really going on. He's just pushing this rumor because it sounds outrageous and makes it more likely that his moronic face will show up on TV at some point.
   1161. DA Baracus Posted: June 28, 2011 at 03:55 PM (#3864332)
i don't think they could have traded only one of them. i think it had to be a package deal; either you kept them both, or you moved them both.


They had to move both? That's laughable.

oh, and there's the stamkos possibility.


Tampa Bay will simply match the offer. Look, I'd love to have Stamkos, but it's just not going to happen.
   1162. Jimmy P Posted: June 28, 2011 at 06:26 PM (#3864470)
Goalies are like running backs, there are only two of them in the league at any one time actually great enough to make a consistent difference (Thomas), about five that are actually terrible enough to make a consistent difference (Turco the past couple years), and the rest are fungible.

Pretty much. I think the Red Wings and Blackhawks are doing a pretty good job of proving this. Heck, even the Flyers have.

They were the cornerstones of the franchise and 26 and 27 years old. Those are the guys you commit to for 10 years. Instead they committed to a 30 year old for 9 years.

This blew me away. Bryz just isn't that good.

Agreed on all but the last sentence. Bryzgalov is an upgrade (Bobrovsky had a very nice season, but I'm not convinced he is the real deal), he's just not enough of an upgrade to warrant losing Carter or Richards (they only "needed" to clear one of them) and the contract he's getting.

It may help in a decade, but your window is now. Pronger, Brier, Timmonen are not young. Especially Pronger, he's only got another year or two of being one of the five best defensemen in the NHL. I just don't know if the Flyers have enough scoring anymore. And, I seriously doubt that Bryzgalov is enough of an upgrade to overcome that. Sure, they got prospects, but none of those guys are Stamkos or Tavares - someone that's going to come in at 21 and rack up huge amounts of goals.

The only rumor I'd entertain with Stamkos is the Rangers. They'll have the room, and I don't think a NY team will fear losing four 1st rounders (more probable that it's only two, that'd be ~$7.5 million per).
   1163. zack Posted: June 28, 2011 at 07:44 PM (#3864571)
Steagles, do you have an idea what The Chin will sign for? Is he gone?
   1164. DA Baracus Posted: June 28, 2011 at 08:33 PM (#3864645)
This blew me away. Bryz just isn't that good.


Like all these 6+ year contracts, it's because of the cap hit. Johan Franzen signed an 11 year deal a few seasons ago.

It may help in a decade, but your window is now.


Preaching to the choir. The blueline and Bryzgalov are built to win now, the forwards are built to win in a few years. It's a mess.

The only rumor I'd entertain with Stamkos is the Rangers. They'll have the room, and I don't think a NY team will fear losing four 1st rounders (more probable that it's only two, that'd be ~$7.5 million per).


It won't be 2 picks, if that is what you are saying. Anything over $5 million is 4 1st rounders.

Steagles, do you have an idea what The Chin will sign for? Is he gone?


Who?

This one's for Steagles:

"Sorry to be a spoilsport, but 2 sources said there's no truth to rumor that Stamkos will be a Flyer."
   1165. steagles Posted: June 28, 2011 at 08:54 PM (#3864675)
Steagles, do you have an idea what The Chin will sign for? Is he gone?


it's leaking that leino's looking for 4 million per year. unless he comes off of that, yeah, he's likely gone.


They had to move both? That's laughable.
i'm not sure you understand the mechanisms behind the situation. the relationship between richards and laviolette got blown up last year, and it just wouldn't have been feasible to press on with both of them in leadership positions.

if it wasn't this, the other options would be stripping richards of the C or firing laviolette.

if they stripped richards, the team blows up anyway.
if they fire laviolette, richards owns the team for the next decade.

the organization decided that trading him was a better situation than any of the three above. i agree with that assessment. doubly so after seeing the return in trade.

maybe they could have stopped at trading richards, but after seeing carter disappear into a hole after the trade, i'm gonna say they probably did the right thing in moving him, too.



as for the on-ice effect, the defense corps is still intact. they added bryzgalov. and at forward, they've got briere, giroux, and JVR returning, plus a supporting cast of hartnell, voracek, simmonds, versteeg, nodl, schenn, maybe leino, maybe couturier, maybe someone with a bigger name, maybe a few with ones that are smaller.


the team they have now will probably not be the same team they have when the season starts. and the team they have when the season starts probably will not be the same one they have when the playoffs start.


let's see what they look like after free agency. let's see what they look like after the trade deadline. if the team needs more scoring, i have no doubt they'll find it in time to salvage a playoff run.
   1166. zack Posted: June 28, 2011 at 09:00 PM (#3864682)
If you believe wikipedia, the cut-off for the 4 first-round picks is now a whopping $7.8 million. Anything $4.7 to $6.2 is only a 1st, 2nd and 3rd, so the door is definitely open for offer sheets this year.
   1167. steagles Posted: June 28, 2011 at 09:01 PM (#3864684)
"Sorry to be a spoilsport, but 2 sources said there's no truth to rumor that Stamkos will be a Flyer."
i'm not gonna be too disappointed if nothing happens on this front. at the same time, i'm quite optimistic that something will.
   1168. DA Baracus Posted: June 28, 2011 at 09:09 PM (#3864700)
i'm not sure you understand the mechanisms behind the situation. the relationship between richards and laviolette got blown up last year, and it just wouldn't have been feasible to press on with both of them in leadership positions.


Yeah, I understand the reasons. They're bullshit and overblown by the media. They didn't have to trade them. Ed Snider wanted to because he's gone senile.

the team they have now will probably not be the same team they have when the season starts.


Holmgren has literally said the opposite, that the team as it is today is pretty much the team they will start the season with. Of course, he's also a noted liar.

If you believe wikipedia, the cut-off for the 4 first-round picks is now a whopping $7.8 million. Anything $4.7 to $6.2 is only a 1st, 2nd and 3rd, so the door is definitely open for offer sheets this year.


I read the wrong thing, you're right. But there's no way Stamkos get an offer sheet for less than $7.8 anyways, because Tampa will easily match a lower offer.
   1169. zack Posted: June 28, 2011 at 09:10 PM (#3864701)
Since I'm bored, here's my attempt at a Blackhawks roster. If I were the GM I'd be shooting offer sheets all over the place, but I'm leaving out trades and RFAs since I have no idea what is possible.

FORWARDS
Ben Smith ($0.812m)/ Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Patrick Kane ($6.300m)
Jussi Jokinen ($4.100m) / Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)
Michael Frolik ($2.575m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Bryan Bickell ($0.541m)
Eric Belanger ($1.250m) / Marty Reasoner ($2.000m) / Marcus Kruger ($0.900m)
Viktor Stalberg ($1.050m) / / Robert Klinkhammer ($0.550m)

DEFENSEMEN
Brent Seabrook ($5.800m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)
Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.500m) / Nick Leddy ($1.116m)
Steve Montador ($2.150m) / Chris Campoli ($1.750m)
John Scott ($0.512m)

GOALTENDERS
Corey Crawford ($2.666m) / Alexander Salak ($0.612m)

BUYOUT
Rostislav Olesz ($.372)

SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,948,184; BONUSES: $730,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $1,351,186

Buying out Olesz because at his age it's only 1/3 of the contract value, which amounts to rounding error over 6 years. Bolded guys are unsigned currently.

I could be way off on RFA and UFA values, but I tried to give respectable raises where appropriate. Ben Smith is probably not good enough to skate on the top line, but there are other options, like Stalberg or swapping Jokinen to the top line. Likewise, Jokinen might shoot too much for Sharp/Hossa.

Fourth line is hilariously all centers for PK/injury depth. Either Belanger or Reasoner are capable of playing the 2nd line center to relieve Sharp, although neither are ideal. I also doubt they would sign for that little to play 4th line minutes, but they are decent raises.

Where am I being a maroon?
   1170. steagles Posted: June 28, 2011 at 09:19 PM (#3864710)
Yeah, I understand the reasons. They're ######## and overblown by the media. They didn't have to trade them. Ed Snider wanted to because he's gone senile.
what are your feelings about scott rolen?
   1171. DA Baracus Posted: June 28, 2011 at 09:25 PM (#3864713)
what are your feelings about scott rolen?


Good player. Other than that I have no feelings about Scott Rolen. I'm not a Phillies fan.

Richards and Carter were huge parts of a team that got to the Finals with Michael friggin' Leighton in goal. Yeah, let's run them out of town.
   1172. steagles Posted: June 28, 2011 at 09:35 PM (#3864721)
Richards and Carter were huge parts of a team that got to the Finals with Michael friggin' Leighton in goal. Yeah, let's run them out of town.
how many points did the team have during that regular season? you do remember that they were a shootout away from not even making the playoffs, right?

and this year, they got pushed to 7 games against a much inferior sabres team before getting swept by boston.


this was a talented team, but it was also flawed in construction, and it was flawed in makeup.

what are your feelings about scott rolen?


Good player. Other than that I have no feelings about Scott Rolen. I'm not a Phillies fan.
sounds like you're not much of a flyers fan, either.
   1173. Shredder Posted: June 28, 2011 at 09:37 PM (#3864725)
if they stripped richards, the team blows up anyway.
if they fire laviolette, richards owns the team for the next decade.
This could work out really well for the Kings, then. They get a top notch center for the second line behind Kopitar, AND a guy who could potentially get Terry Murray fired. That's win-win for me.

I was really sorry to see both Schenn and Simmonds go, but Richards is probably Schenn's upside, and he's signed at a pretty reasonable number for nearly a decade. The cap has increased by 60% in the past six years. If it increases at half that rate over the next six, his contract looks fantastic, plus they don't have worry about Schenn's development, or his contract(s). The Kings bigger questions are at left wing. Ryan Smyth has lost a step, but he was still a 25 goal guy. Hopefully Richards, along with the emergence of the rest of the roster makes them a more attractive free agent destination. Los Angeles is a great place to live, and believe it or not, it really has an incredibly deep, but narrow fan base. The problem is the travel. Not a lot of players want to sign up for that much travel.
   1174. DA Baracus Posted: June 28, 2011 at 09:43 PM (#3864728)
how many points did the team have during that regular season? you do remember that they were a shootout away from not even making the playoffs, right?


It's their fault that John Stevens dug them into a huge hole to start the season? Once they got a real coach, the team took off. Went to the Finals and the next year had the 3rd best record in the league.

and this year, they got pushed to 7 games against a much inferior sabres team before getting swept by boston.


They went 7 against Buffalo because the goaltending was horrendous. And I don't know if you know this or not, but Boston won the Cup, it's not like they lost to a bunch of overachievers. Anyways, I said before the season that they wouldn't make it past the 2nd round because of the goaltending.

this was a talented team, but it was also flawed in construction, and it was flawed in makeup.


And it's not a better team today.

sounds like you're not much of a flyers fan, either.


Now you're going to troll? Ha.
   1175. steagles Posted: June 28, 2011 at 09:56 PM (#3864739)
It's their fault that John Stevens dug them into a huge hole to start the season? Once they got a real coach, the team took off. Went to the Finals and the next year had the 3rd best record in the league.
and yet, with that same real coach, the team lost 14 of their last 21 this past season, and laid down like dogs in the playoffs.


They went 7 against Buffalo because the goaltending was horrendous. And I don't know if you know this or not, but Boston won the Cup, it's not like they lost to a bunch of overachievers. Anyways, I said before the season that they wouldn't make it past the 2nd round because of the goaltending.

they got taken to 7 by montreal. they got taken to 7 by tampa bay. they got taken to 7 by vancouver.

they swept the flyers.



Now you're going to troll? Ha.
just one more.

you seem to have all the anger of an eagles fan, and all the arrogant, self-entitled, obnoxious prickishness of a yankees fan. that's quite a combination.


i think that's out of me now.
   1176. DA Baracus Posted: June 28, 2011 at 10:03 PM (#3864746)
and yet, with that same real coach, the team lost 14 of their last 21 this past season, and laid down like dogs in the playoffs.


Not having Pronger really hurt the team. Plus without him Carle is useless, and the wheels feel off Sean O'Donnell by season's end, so they only had 3 real defensemen.

they got taken to 7 by montreal. they got taken to 7 by tampa bay. they got taken to 7 by vancouver.

they swept the flyers.


All of whom have better goalies. Of course they cut of their nose to spite their face by getting a goalie and then running their best goal scorer and captain out of town. The Flyers did not play great in the playoffs, no argument on that. But to pin that on Richards and Carter (who once again played injured) is misguided.

you seem to have all the anger of an eagles fan, and all the arrogant, self-entitled, obnoxious prickishness of a yankees fan. that's quite a combination.


That's the nicest thing anyone's ever said about me. I'm tearing up.
   1177. Justin T is going to crush some tacos Thursday Posted: June 28, 2011 at 10:22 PM (#3864760)
Whoa whoa whoa, Carle is useless with or without Pronger.
   1178. steagles Posted: June 28, 2011 at 10:27 PM (#3864767)
you really need to have more of an open mind on all of this.


the organization seems happy with the move. a whole lot of fans seem happy with the move. toronto fans are pissed off because of it. just ride the wave. you'll be much happier for it down the line.


Whoa whoa whoa, Carle is useless with or without Pronger.
39 assists, +30. he's not a gamebreaker, but he's easily a top 4 Dman on a legitimate title contender. .
   1179. Famous Original Joe C Posted: June 28, 2011 at 11:23 PM (#3864821)
Re: Flyers/Bruins - I think this year's series was a perfect storm (not completely unlike last year's for Philly - if the Bruins have Krejci and Seidenberg, I think they likely manage to win that 4th game) - but really, the Flyers didn't have Pronger, had Carter hurt, got terrible goaltending (20 goals in 4 games), while the Bruins had momentum from a game 7 OT win over Montreal, a triple dose of momentum for this Bruins team, given their losing game 7s the past three seasons, and the fact that they somehow won three games in OT against Montreal (unimaginable as a Bruins fan). Plus, they were getting a shot at the team that had embarrassed them so badly the previous year, and on top of it, they got lucky and stole game 2 in Philadelphia, a game it seemed like the Flyers were going to win about seven different times.

My point is, I don't think that series was indicative of much going forward. Just as the #### fell on the Bruins in 2010, it came back around and hit the Flyers this past May.

As a Bruins fan, I am happy to see Richards and Carter off the Flyers, though that is just a feeling. I agree that we can't totally judge where the Flyers stand until the offseason is over.

you seem to have all the anger of an eagles fan, and all the arrogant, self-entitled, obnoxious prickishness of a yankees fan. that's quite a combination.

I don't get it - because he doesn't like the recent moves and he doesn't believe the Stamkos rumors?
   1180. Jimmy P Posted: June 28, 2011 at 11:25 PM (#3864828)
Where am I being a maroon?

BUYOUT
Rostislav Olesz ($.372)


Right there. Olesz is cheap, young, and has talent. Got to at least give him a try. If the guys and Q can get his head on straight, he's easily worth it. I just think he's too young and too talented to dump before he even plays a game.

I read the wrong thing, you're right. But there's no way Stamkos get an offer sheet for less than $7.8 anyways, because Tampa will easily match a lower offer.

There's only 6 guys in the NHL with a cap hit higher than $7.8 - Crosby, Ovie, Malkin, E. Staal, B. Richards, and Nash. (Aside, Richards is going to cash in) Vinny comes close. I'm just not sure a team is going to go out and offer Stamkos that much. Maybe they will.
   1181. steagles Posted: June 28, 2011 at 11:37 PM (#3864854)
I don't get it - because he doesn't like the recent moves and he doesn't believe the Stamkos rumors?
more because of the manner in which he expresses that dislike.
   1182. zack Posted: June 29, 2011 at 12:26 AM (#3864932)
Right there. Olesz is cheap, young, and has talent. Got to at least give him a try. If the guys and Q can get his head on straight, he's easily worth it. I just think he's too young and too talented to dump before he even plays a game.


I don't think $3.1 for an oft-injured 30 point winger with little defensive value is cheap. The real motivation for buying him out is that his contract runs for 3 more years, so $9 million is too much to commit to a project. This is the last year you can buy him out for 1/3 the value, next year you have to pay 2/3 and so the cap hit penalty doubles.
   1183. DA Baracus Posted: June 29, 2011 at 04:09 AM (#3865105)
Whoa whoa whoa, Carle is useless with or without Pronger.


He's got his uses with Pronger, but yeah, I would love to see him kicked to the curb. That's how good Pronger is, he can make Carle look good.

you really need to have more of an open mind on all of this.


Do it yourself first.

the organization seems happy with the move. a whole lot of fans seem happy with the move.


Seriously, who gives a #### what fans think. They don't run the team. Yeah, the organization seems real happy with the move. Holmgren was near tears talking about the trades. It's Snider that is happy with the moves. You know who else is happy with the trades? Every other team in the league, because the Flyers got worse.

39 assists, +30. he's not a gamebreaker, but he's easily a top 4 Dman on a legitimate title contender. .


He's not. (+/- is laughably useless.) He's a complete liability defensively and his offensive contributions are hugely overrated by having a HOF defenseman as his partner and playing on a team that was ridiculously deep in scoring. I and many others literally laughed out loud that he got Norris votes.
   1184. DA Baracus Posted: June 29, 2011 at 04:23 AM (#3865112)
There's only 6 guys in the NHL with a cap hit higher than $7.8 - Crosby, Ovie, Malkin, E. Staal, B. Richards, and Nash. (Aside, Richards is going to cash in) Vinny comes close. I'm just not sure a team is going to go out and offer Stamkos that much. Maybe they will.


We can argue about whether or not he deserves it, but that's a different topic. The question is, will he get it. If a team wants to get him, they're going to have to offer that. Otherwise, Tampa will just match.
   1185. Jimmy P Posted: June 30, 2011 at 09:32 PM (#3866613)
Steve Montador

You got that one right. He signed with the Hawks.

Jussi Jokinen

He's staying in Raleigh, though.
   1186. DA Baracus Posted: June 30, 2011 at 09:56 PM (#3866640)
In what should come as a surprise to no one, the Flyers will not be giving Stamkos an offer sheet.
   1187. steagles Posted: June 30, 2011 at 10:07 PM (#3866661)
In what should come as a surprise to no one, the Flyers will not be giving Stamkos an offer sheet.
the fact that they took the time to make that statement should tell you that there was a fire under all that smoke you dismissed wholly out of hand.


i've got no idea what they have in the works now, but the fun starts in 6 hours.
   1188. Greg K Posted: June 30, 2011 at 10:12 PM (#3866669)
toronto fans are pissed off because of it

Are they? I'm a Leafs fan and I have no real feeling one way or the other. Though Philly trading away their best players was always going to get at least a mild thumbs up from me.
   1189. Greg K Posted: June 30, 2011 at 10:20 PM (#3866676)
you seem to have all the anger of an eagles fan, and all the arrogant, self-entitled, obnoxious prickishness of a yankees fan. that's quite a combination.

I would have thought the guy who thinks his team is going to get Stamkos is the self-entitled one.
   1190. DA Baracus Posted: July 01, 2011 at 04:47 AM (#3866866)
the fact that they took the time to make that statement should tell you that there was a fire under all that smoke you dismissed wholly out of hand.


Or you know, rather than answer each beat writer asking them individually, they put out a statement.

I didn't say they weren't considering it. I said they wouldn't do it.
   1191. steagles Posted: July 01, 2011 at 04:51 PM (#3867087)
anyway, the beatwriters are covering themselves in glory today:

AnthonySan37 Anthony SanFilippo
Flyers make a move.... don't get too excited... extended Coburn for two years...

AnthonySan37 Anthony SanFilippo
Flyers have signed Handzus, as expected. hold up on the Coburn ext., email I read didn't say it was "definite." Just got yelled at. #OOPS


Twitter
TSNBobMcKenzie:
I am told not only has Handzus not signed with PHI, there hasn't been contact between PHI and Handzus camp.
   1192. steagles Posted: July 01, 2011 at 05:30 PM (#3867125)
tsn_wally:
RT @NHLFlyers: Per #Flyers GM Paul Holmgren: The Philadelphia Flyers have agreed to a contract with free agent RW Jaromir Jagr. [via Twitter]
TSNBobMcKenzie:
Per all sorts of people, and confirmed by Flyer sources, Jaromir Jagr is a Philadelphia Flyer. [via Twitter]


AnthonySan37 Anthony SanFilippo
told it's 1 yr $3 million from a Flyers source. for Jagr.


AnthonySan37 Anthony SanFilippo
Good to see I've gotten something right in the last 18 hours!!!
DarrenDreger:
$3.3 million for 1 year for Jagr in Philly. [via Twitter]
   1193. steagles Posted: July 01, 2011 at 05:57 PM (#3867152)
TSNBobMcKenzie:
RT @NHLFlyers: The #Flyers have agreed to a contract with free agent D Andreas Lilja and signed RW Jakub Voracek to a contract extension. [via Twitter]


TSNBobMcKenzie:
PHI signs Jakub Voracek to a one year deal worth $2.25M. [via Twitter]



wayne simmonds is the last remaining unsigned RFA.

TSNBobMcKenzie:
Andreas Lilja gets three years at $1.7M on his deal with Philadelphia. [via Twitter]
TSNBobMcKenzie:
Lilja numbers are wrong...sorry, wrong player. Marcel Goc gets 3 x $1.73M with Florida. My mistake. [via Twitter]
   1194. Jimmy P Posted: July 01, 2011 at 06:05 PM (#3867160)
It appears the Blackhawks want anyone over 36.
   1195. steagles Posted: July 01, 2011 at 06:32 PM (#3867190)
JohnLuTSNMtl:
RT @renhockey: Max Talbot 5 ans (years) with Flyer
TSNBobMcKenzie:
As per @DarrenDreger, five years, $9M total for Max Talbot. [via Twitter]
   1196. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: July 01, 2011 at 07:11 PM (#3867244)
It appears the Blackhawks want anyone over 36.

When they're this productive, do you blame them (from ESPN's blog tracking the signings):

The Chicago Blackhawks agreed to terms on a one-year deal with Brunette. At 37, Brunette played all 82 games this past season for the Minnesota Wild and collected 256 goals and 706 points.


There was a lot of talk about lack of veteran leadership this past season, especially on SCH. I assume this is what Stan is trying to address. They also need depth, but I would still would have liked an impact guy or two.
   1197. steagles Posted: July 01, 2011 at 07:23 PM (#3867263)
so, right now it looks like this is the in/out for the team over the last 2 weeks

in: jagr, bryzgalov, lilja, talbot, voracek, schenn, simmonds

out: carter, richards, leino, zherdev, o'donnell, carcillo, boucher

still up in the air are the fates of versteeg, carle, coburn, bobrovski, shelley, walker, and leighton.


my first impression is that i hate the talbot signing, i'm pessimistic about the lilja signing (though it appears to be minimum risk if the reported 1/800K figure is accurate), and i'm very curious about the jagr one.


when taken in totality, they added voracek (6'2, 220), simmonds (6'2, 180), and jagr (6'3, 240) to fill in on the wings with JVR (6'3, 200), scott hartnell (6'2, 210), and kris versteeg (5'10, 180).

with the top centers now being claude giroux (5'11, 172), danny briere (5'10, 179), brayden schenn (6'1, 190), and max talbot (5'11, 190), there seems to be a clear philosophy here. speed in the middle, bulk on the wings.


it'll be very interesting to see who goes where on the top 2 lines. i'd probably go with JVR-giroux-jagr and hartnell-briere-voracek.
   1198. steagles Posted: July 01, 2011 at 08:05 PM (#3867313)
well, that shoe dropped:
TSNBobMcKenzie:
RT @NHLFlyers: Holmgren: The #Flyers have traded Kris Versteeg to Florida for a 2nd round pick (2012 or 2013 - FLA's choice) and a 3rd r ...
the 3rd round pick is due in 2012. i think.
   1199. Jimmy P Posted: July 01, 2011 at 08:08 PM (#3867321)
Man, take all your ex-Blackhawks to Florida.
   1200. steagles Posted: July 01, 2011 at 08:16 PM (#3867335)
TSNBobMcKenzie:
Ville Leino has agreed to terms with BUF, 6 years for $27M. [via Twitter]
he's probably not worth that, but he's a good player. he's already 28, so i don't think anyone can blame him for trying to max out his contract, but i am a bit disappointed to see him go.
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