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My money is on Collie being revealed as the guy in the Bruin suit at the first home game of the finals.
with the NFL and NBA seasons up in the air due to labor strife, having an even somewhat competent league office could enable the NHL to make significant gains in viewership throughout this country. it'll certainly make me feel a whole lot less dirty for watching out of town games, at least to start.
I was originally a believer in calling them the Jets, but the stats side of me rebelled.
There would be two sets of "Winnipeg Jets" career/season leaders, and they wouldn't have been for the same team.
Let's assume that to end his career, Teemu Selanne signs with the "new Winnipeg Jets", and has another season like the last one.
30+ goals and 80 or so points, and enough to lead the (rather weak) team.
He would then be the season record holder in goals and points for the Winnipeg Jets and the Winnipeg Jets.
Winnipeg Métis, Louis Reils, Flax, General Strike, or Poohs would be more appropriate.
If people get antsy/upset about "Indians", I don't think "Métis" is going to fly.
And naming a team after someone who actively fought against the government isn't such a good idea either.
I think "Winnipeg Whiteouts", "Manitoba Marauders", "Winnipeg Northerners", "Manitoba Prairiemen", or "Winnipeg Rivermen"
No such arrangement for Winnipeg and the Jets.
An intense game with a bite thrown in. Does Campbell deal with the discipline on that one, or does it go to Shanahan?
Recchi taunting LaPierre by sticking a finger in his face was awesome. Rome bringing another Canucks cheapshot, only he'll actually draw a suspension because he's a 8th defenseman.
Four game suspension for Rome.
hopefully this turns out better than the situation with dan hamhuis last year.
i'd have to think that the organization's complete disdain for draft picks will come back to haunt them at some point.
Congrats to Bruins fans. Well done.
Can't believe they found someone willing to take Carter's contract.
If this is all to sign Bryzgalov for $6mil+, then the Flyers management are some wild and crazy guys.
That's crazy. I'm sure the Flyers fans will be levelheaded about it.
that's not surprising to me. carter's a great defensive center, he's great in the faceoff circle, and he can go on tears, scoring 15 goals in a month. he's the real loss here.
as for richards, i don't want to play armchair psychologist, but he was never committed to reaching his potential. he had career highs of 30 goals and 50 assists in 2009, but since then, he's really just been playing out the string. he's talented enough that despite that, he's still a very good player, but as captain, that's just unacceptable. add to that the no trade clause and the $51+ million he's still owed, and yeah, i'm not gonna sweat losing him.
and speaking of $51 million, ilya brzygalov, come on down.
really though, it's a shame carter got caught up in this. he's really come into his own the last few seasons, and even though he had to play out of position most of last year, he took it like a pro. it probably isn't the consensus opinion around here, but i'll miss him.
I agree Carter is a wonderful player, I just can't imagine trading for him when he's due $5mil for the next 11 years. No way could I commit to anyone but the elite for that length of time, especially since 26 in the NHL isn't 26 in MLB. It'll be nice for Rick Nash to have some company, though.
Do you think the Flyers are
bettermore likely to win a cup today than they were two days ago (assuming they use the extra cap space wisely (edit: forgot Schenn was on an EL contract with a pretty stiff bonus. If he's up, the money's a wash.))? It's also weird that the NHL pieces they got back are all (edit: mostly) RFAs.I gotta say I do enjoy it when GMs go for broke. Go big or stay home, Holmes!
It's about damn time. A lot of casual hockey fans don't understand how good this guy is.
As I understand it, Carter's contract didn't even really begin until the 2011-12 season.
So they signed him in November 2010 to this deal, and then traded him before they had to pay a penny of it.
You don't see that happening much in sports.
That's like (almost) instantaneous buyer's remorse.
Re: PHI being closer to a cup, let's see how the draft works out. Giroux, JVR, and briere are still coming back to help with the scoring. Pronger, carle, timonen, coburn, and meszaros are returning on the d-line. Bryzgalov'll be in net.
There's potential there, so I'm optimistic
This offseason, Scott Nichol and Jamal Mayers are told to take a hike. Because there are guys in Worcester ready. Oh, and now trade Setoguchi.
This'll work just fine.
So, nevermind.
looking at what we have now, and assuming that schenn starts the year on the active roster, i think i'd like to see the lines look something like this:
versteeg/simmonds-briere-leino
JVR-giroux-versteeg/simmonds
hartnell-schenn-voracek
i'd really like to try to break up that hartnell-briere-leino line in training camp. it's easy enough to put it back together if you need offense later in the year, but i really think it'd be better for the team if that wasn't something carved in stone from the start of the year, like it was last season.
i also like the idea of putting some size on schenn's wings. voracek's put up 96 points the last two years, and hartnell's capable of netting 30 in a year, so along with the size, you'd get some good skill on that line.
i'm sure that i'd want to keep leino and briere, and JVR and giroux together, but i'm not sure on which line i'd prefer simmonds and versteeg. simmonds' size would look good on briere's wing, but versteeg's quickness on the same wing would create a line that would figure to be very hard to check on open ice.
i'd hope the organization tries to keep the top 3 lines fairly close in terms of skill and talent. it would seem like a bit of a waste of schenn's ability if you have him on a third line with versteeg and simmonds, or even if you try moving him to either briere's or giroux's wing.
anyway, training camp should be fun.
Campbell $7.1 for 5 years
Olesz $3.1 for 3 years
Olesz looks severely overpaid as well, but because he's young he gives you a much more attractive buyout, which would give the 'hawks:
$6.7, $7.3, $7.6, $6.5, $6.5 more cap room for the next five years, and $0.6 less space in the 6th year vs. keeping Campbell. Unless revenue explodes like crazy that's a huge addition by subtraction, even though Soupy is a good player.
In the immediate term it's a pretty big step down in talent. The 'hawks went from a top-heavy but very good defense to a paper thin one. Whether this is a good move or a horrible one will depend entirely on how they use the new cap space.
I thought Campbell was really stinking good, but he's been getting increasingly fragile and he'll have to start dropping off at some point. We're letting a lot ride of Nick Leddy and whoever Stan can connive in a trade (I'm not even gonna begin dreaming of Shea Weber). Makes me nervous.
You shouldn't be. The Flyers took huge steps backwards with those trades, Richards and Carter are elite players in their prime. And I can't even blame Holmgren for this mess, it looks like Snider forced this.
anyway,the rumor is that all these dealings have been in an effort to clear enough caproom for the team to sign stamkos to an offer sheet. something like 10/100.
and on a related note, the NHL needs to get rid of restricted free agency at all costs in the next CBA discussion. the driving force behind both richards' and carters' decade long extensions was the fear of losing either of them for an offer sheet. it's obvious that teams are operating out of the fear of losing their best players, and that puts them in a very bad negotiating position.
and it's not so much the cost against the cap that i have an issue with, but rather the decade long commitments that teams are boxed in to making in order to keep their core players. that's not good for the league.
and even if they can't get rid of restricted free agency, they definitely need to push for a limit on how many years a contract can run. that would help in two ways, the first would mean putting an end to the dipietro contracts. the second is that it would really level the playing fields between the top and bottom of the league by limiting the circumvention of the cap that teams like the flyers take advantage of.
in the last two years of briere's contract, he'll be paid 5 million. the cap hit will be 13. in the last two years of pronger's contract, he'll be making 500K. the cap hit each year will be just south of 5 million.
without the extra years on briere's contract, his cap hit would be up around 7.8 instead of 6.5. without the extra years on pronger's contract, his cap hit would be up around 6.7 instead of 4.9.
i mean, getting these concessions wouldn't be worth losing games over, but if they implement these fixes, the game would be significantly more healthy in the long run.
They are silly and I will not complain if something is done that makes them an unattractive option. But they have very little to do with a fear of losing RFAs.
do you think tampa would feel that to be an adequate substitute for arguably the best player in the world?
Which DiPietro contracts were there when 4 first rounders was the penalty but no salary cap existed?
You don't need to be top-tier to be worth keeping. The Bruins learned that after their Cup aspirations got set back five years after they traded Jumbo Joe.
people talk about the flyers setting themselves back for years with their richards and carter deals, but in those deals, they netted 3 top 10 picks (schenn, couturier, and voracek), plus 3 other assets of moderate value (simmonds, a 3rd round pick, and a 2012 2nd rounder).
4 1st rounders are all well and good, but if stamkos is added to this core, those picks not likely to be in the top half of any of those 1st rounds, and tampa would be losing one of the best players in the world, for 4 guys who would likely be, at best, the 10th best prospect in their draft year.
that was a shitty deal, but the cap space boston opened up in making it was immediately put to use on another player of comparable quality (marc savard).
as for the flyers situation, what you have to understand is that both richards and carter were under contract until 2020. each of them also had a no trade clause set to kick in at the start of the 2012-13 season. if the flyers had kept both of them past that point, they'd have been committing to them as the core of the roster for a decade.
ed snider had apparently seen enough of them to know that he did not want to make that commitment, and so, while he still could, he sent them out of town on a rail. maybe this sets the team back this year (though, with the addition of bryzgalov, i'm not sure that will be the case), but it could very likely also be the fuel that keeps the team in contention for the next decade.
What's more, you can literally count the number of players who have accepted offer sheets since the lockout on Antonio Alfonseca's hand. Thomas Vanek is the only (arguably) elite player to ever sign a big money offer sheet, and that has more to do with the Oilers being stupid then any real threat from offer sheets.
No way do the Flyers have the cash to poach Stamkos. Has anyone not from Philadelphia even suggested it?
the flyers could make it work if they were so inclined. and i don't think draft picks would be much of a concern on our end.
Carter is a top goal scorer, few are better at even strength. Richards is a perennial Selke nominee, 60-70 point offense, and was the team captain. They're cornerstones of a franchise, not guys you trade away. The team just took huge steps back.
A rumor that is 100% BS. It has no traction.
the decision was made at the top of the organization to get out from under that.
Maybe? Carter is better (more valuable) than Bryzgalov. Richards is probably about equal to Bryzgalov, and maybe has more value. Heck, I'm not sure Bryzgalov is even an upgrade on the Flyers' current goalie situation. So they basically gave away two strong forwards to tread water in net. Maybe, in terms of the next decade, this will help the Flyers as you say. But as for next year, I think they clearly took a step backwards. Unless they do sign Stamkos. Then I reserve the right to change my mind.
When I heard about the Flyers' latest dispensation of crazy, all I could think was "damn, we could have unloaded Fleury's contract on these guys AND gotten some good stuff back."
There's no basis to believe the Stamkos rumor. None. Go ahead and get your hopes up though.
They were the cornerstones of the franchise and 26 and 27 years old. Those are the guys you commit to for 10 years. Instead they committed to a 30 year old for 9 years.
Agreed on all but the last sentence. Bryzgalov is an upgrade (Bobrovsky had a very nice season, but I'm not convinced he is the real deal), he's just not enough of an upgrade to warrant losing Carter or Richards (they only "needed" to clear one of them) and the contract he's getting.
i don't think they could have traded only one of them. i think it had to be a package deal; either you kept them both, or you moved them both.
being somewhat aware of the mechanisms at work behind the trade, i really can't say that i disagree with their decision here. they got better in net, they got bigger on the wings, they got a pair of U20 forwards who are top tier prospects, not just in the flyers' system, but in the entire world.
oh, and there's the stamkos possibility. i know you think that's ########, but there's smoke there, and it's not just on flyers message boards. former GM doug maclean seems to be going on radio across the continent pushing the 10/100 rumor. maybe he's wrong, but i really don't think this is as far-fetched as you're convinced it is.
There's no maybe there. Doug MacLean is a tremendous idiot with a long history of being wrong about everything. Even if the Stamkos thing somehow happens, he won't have known what was really going on. He's just pushing this rumor because it sounds outrageous and makes it more likely that his moronic face will show up on TV at some point.
They had to move both? That's laughable.
Tampa Bay will simply match the offer. Look, I'd love to have Stamkos, but it's just not going to happen.
Pretty much. I think the Red Wings and Blackhawks are doing a pretty good job of proving this. Heck, even the Flyers have.
They were the cornerstones of the franchise and 26 and 27 years old. Those are the guys you commit to for 10 years. Instead they committed to a 30 year old for 9 years.
This blew me away. Bryz just isn't that good.
Agreed on all but the last sentence. Bryzgalov is an upgrade (Bobrovsky had a very nice season, but I'm not convinced he is the real deal), he's just not enough of an upgrade to warrant losing Carter or Richards (they only "needed" to clear one of them) and the contract he's getting.
It may help in a decade, but your window is now. Pronger, Brier, Timmonen are not young. Especially Pronger, he's only got another year or two of being one of the five best defensemen in the NHL. I just don't know if the Flyers have enough scoring anymore. And, I seriously doubt that Bryzgalov is enough of an upgrade to overcome that. Sure, they got prospects, but none of those guys are Stamkos or Tavares - someone that's going to come in at 21 and rack up huge amounts of goals.
The only rumor I'd entertain with Stamkos is the Rangers. They'll have the room, and I don't think a NY team will fear losing four 1st rounders (more probable that it's only two, that'd be ~$7.5 million per).
Like all these 6+ year contracts, it's because of the cap hit. Johan Franzen signed an 11 year deal a few seasons ago.
Preaching to the choir. The blueline and Bryzgalov are built to win now, the forwards are built to win in a few years. It's a mess.
It won't be 2 picks, if that is what you are saying. Anything over $5 million is 4 1st rounders.
Who?
This one's for Steagles:
"Sorry to be a spoilsport, but 2 sources said there's no truth to rumor that Stamkos will be a Flyer."
it's leaking that leino's looking for 4 million per year. unless he comes off of that, yeah, he's likely gone.
i'm not sure you understand the mechanisms behind the situation. the relationship between richards and laviolette got blown up last year, and it just wouldn't have been feasible to press on with both of them in leadership positions.
if it wasn't this, the other options would be stripping richards of the C or firing laviolette.
if they stripped richards, the team blows up anyway.
if they fire laviolette, richards owns the team for the next decade.
the organization decided that trading him was a better situation than any of the three above. i agree with that assessment. doubly so after seeing the return in trade.
maybe they could have stopped at trading richards, but after seeing carter disappear into a hole after the trade, i'm gonna say they probably did the right thing in moving him, too.
as for the on-ice effect, the defense corps is still intact. they added bryzgalov. and at forward, they've got briere, giroux, and JVR returning, plus a supporting cast of hartnell, voracek, simmonds, versteeg, nodl, schenn, maybe leino, maybe couturier, maybe someone with a bigger name, maybe a few with ones that are smaller.
the team they have now will probably not be the same team they have when the season starts. and the team they have when the season starts probably will not be the same one they have when the playoffs start.
let's see what they look like after free agency. let's see what they look like after the trade deadline. if the team needs more scoring, i have no doubt they'll find it in time to salvage a playoff run.
Yeah, I understand the reasons. They're ######## and overblown by the media. They didn't have to trade them. Ed Snider wanted to because he's gone senile.
Holmgren has literally said the opposite, that the team as it is today is pretty much the team they will start the season with. Of course, he's also a noted liar.
I read the wrong thing, you're right. But there's no way Stamkos get an offer sheet for less than $7.8 anyways, because Tampa will easily match a lower offer.
FORWARDS
Ben Smith ($0.812m)/ Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Patrick Kane ($6.300m)
Jussi Jokinen ($4.100m) / Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)
Michael Frolik ($2.575m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Bryan Bickell ($0.541m)
Eric Belanger ($1.250m) / Marty Reasoner ($2.000m) / Marcus Kruger ($0.900m)
Viktor Stalberg ($1.050m) / / Robert Klinkhammer ($0.550m)
DEFENSEMEN
Brent Seabrook ($5.800m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)
Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.500m) / Nick Leddy ($1.116m)
Steve Montador ($2.150m) / Chris Campoli ($1.750m)
John Scott ($0.512m)
GOALTENDERS
Corey Crawford ($2.666m) / Alexander Salak ($0.612m)
BUYOUT
Rostislav Olesz ($.372)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,948,184; BONUSES: $730,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $1,351,186
Buying out Olesz because at his age it's only 1/3 of the contract value, which amounts to rounding error over 6 years. Bolded guys are unsigned currently.
I could be way off on RFA and UFA values, but I tried to give respectable raises where appropriate. Ben Smith is probably not good enough to skate on the top line, but there are other options, like Stalberg or swapping Jokinen to the top line. Likewise, Jokinen might shoot too much for Sharp/Hossa.
Fourth line is hilariously all centers for PK/injury depth. Either Belanger or Reasoner are capable of playing the 2nd line center to relieve Sharp, although neither are ideal. I also doubt they would sign for that little to play 4th line minutes, but they are decent raises.
Where am I being a maroon?
Good player. Other than that I have no feelings about Scott Rolen. I'm not a Phillies fan.
Richards and Carter were huge parts of a team that got to the Finals with Michael friggin' Leighton in goal. Yeah, let's run them out of town.
and this year, they got pushed to 7 games against a much inferior sabres team before getting swept by boston.
this was a talented team, but it was also flawed in construction, and it was flawed in makeup.
sounds like you're not much of a flyers fan, either.
I was really sorry to see both Schenn and Simmonds go, but Richards is probably Schenn's upside, and he's signed at a pretty reasonable number for nearly a decade. The cap has increased by 60% in the past six years. If it increases at half that rate over the next six, his contract looks fantastic, plus they don't have worry about Schenn's development, or his contract(s). The Kings bigger questions are at left wing. Ryan Smyth has lost a step, but he was still a 25 goal guy. Hopefully Richards, along with the emergence of the rest of the roster makes them a more attractive free agent destination. Los Angeles is a great place to live, and believe it or not, it really has an incredibly deep, but narrow fan base. The problem is the travel. Not a lot of players want to sign up for that much travel.
It's their fault that John Stevens dug them into a huge hole to start the season? Once they got a real coach, the team took off. Went to the Finals and the next year had the 3rd best record in the league.
They went 7 against Buffalo because the goaltending was horrendous. And I don't know if you know this or not, but Boston won the Cup, it's not like they lost to a bunch of overachievers. Anyways, I said before the season that they wouldn't make it past the 2nd round because of the goaltending.
And it's not a better team today.
Now you're going to troll? Ha.
they got taken to 7 by montreal. they got taken to 7 by tampa bay. they got taken to 7 by vancouver.
they swept the flyers.
just one more.
you seem to have all the anger of an eagles fan, and all the arrogant, self-entitled, obnoxious prickishness of a yankees fan. that's quite a combination.
i think that's out of me now.
Not having Pronger really hurt the team. Plus without him Carle is useless, and the wheels feel off Sean O'Donnell by season's end, so they only had 3 real defensemen.
All of whom have better goalies. Of course they cut of their nose to spite their face by getting a goalie and then running their best goal scorer and captain out of town. The Flyers did not play great in the playoffs, no argument on that. But to pin that on Richards and Carter (who once again played injured) is misguided.
That's the nicest thing anyone's ever said about me. I'm tearing up.
the organization seems happy with the move. a whole lot of fans seem happy with the move. toronto fans are pissed off because of it. just ride the wave. you'll be much happier for it down the line.
39 assists, +30. he's not a gamebreaker, but he's easily a top 4 Dman on a legitimate title contender. .
My point is, I don't think that series was indicative of much going forward. Just as the #### fell on the Bruins in 2010, it came back around and hit the Flyers this past May.
As a Bruins fan, I am happy to see Richards and Carter off the Flyers, though that is just a feeling. I agree that we can't totally judge where the Flyers stand until the offseason is over.
you seem to have all the anger of an eagles fan, and all the arrogant, self-entitled, obnoxious prickishness of a yankees fan. that's quite a combination.
I don't get it - because he doesn't like the recent moves and he doesn't believe the Stamkos rumors?
BUYOUT
Rostislav Olesz ($.372)
Right there. Olesz is cheap, young, and has talent. Got to at least give him a try. If the guys and Q can get his head on straight, he's easily worth it. I just think he's too young and too talented to dump before he even plays a game.
I read the wrong thing, you're right. But there's no way Stamkos get an offer sheet for less than $7.8 anyways, because Tampa will easily match a lower offer.
There's only 6 guys in the NHL with a cap hit higher than $7.8 - Crosby, Ovie, Malkin, E. Staal, B. Richards, and Nash. (Aside, Richards is going to cash in) Vinny comes close. I'm just not sure a team is going to go out and offer Stamkos that much. Maybe they will.
I don't think $3.1 for an oft-injured 30 point winger with little defensive value is cheap. The real motivation for buying him out is that his contract runs for 3 more years, so $9 million is too much to commit to a project. This is the last year you can buy him out for 1/3 the value, next year you have to pay 2/3 and so the cap hit penalty doubles.
He's got his uses with Pronger, but yeah, I would love to see him kicked to the curb. That's how good Pronger is, he can make Carle look good.
Do it yourself first.
Seriously, who gives a #### what fans think. They don't run the team. Yeah, the organization seems real happy with the move. Holmgren was near tears talking about the trades. It's Snider that is happy with the moves. You know who else is happy with the trades? Every other team in the league, because the Flyers got worse.
He's not. (+/- is laughably useless.) He's a complete liability defensively and his offensive contributions are hugely overrated by having a HOF defenseman as his partner and playing on a team that was ridiculously deep in scoring. I and many others literally laughed out loud that he got Norris votes.
We can argue about whether or not he deserves it, but that's a different topic. The question is, will he get it. If a team wants to get him, they're going to have to offer that. Otherwise, Tampa will just match.
You got that one right. He signed with the Hawks.
Jussi Jokinen
He's staying in Raleigh, though.
i've got no idea what they have in the works now, but the fun starts in 6 hours.
Are they? I'm a Leafs fan and I have no real feeling one way or the other. Though Philly trading away their best players was always going to get at least a mild thumbs up from me.
I would have thought the guy who thinks his team is going to get Stamkos is the self-entitled one.
Or you know, rather than answer each beat writer asking them individually, they put out a statement.
I didn't say they weren't considering it. I said they wouldn't do it.
wayne simmonds is the last remaining unsigned RFA.
When they're this productive, do you blame them (from ESPN's blog tracking the signings):
There was a lot of talk about lack of veteran leadership this past season, especially on SCH. I assume this is what Stan is trying to address. They also need depth, but I would still would have liked an impact guy or two.
in: jagr, bryzgalov, lilja, talbot, voracek, schenn, simmonds
out: carter, richards, leino, zherdev, o'donnell, carcillo, boucher
still up in the air are the fates of versteeg, carle, coburn, bobrovski, shelley, walker, and leighton.
my first impression is that i hate the talbot signing, i'm pessimistic about the lilja signing (though it appears to be minimum risk if the reported 1/800K figure is accurate), and i'm very curious about the jagr one.
when taken in totality, they added voracek (6'2, 220), simmonds (6'2, 180), and jagr (6'3, 240) to fill in on the wings with JVR (6'3, 200), scott hartnell (6'2, 210), and kris versteeg (5'10, 180).
with the top centers now being claude giroux (5'11, 172), danny briere (5'10, 179), brayden schenn (6'1, 190), and max talbot (5'11, 190), there seems to be a clear philosophy here. speed in the middle, bulk on the wings.
it'll be very interesting to see who goes where on the top 2 lines. i'd probably go with JVR-giroux-jagr and hartnell-briere-voracek.
the 3rd round pick is due in 2012. i think.
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